View Full Version : Doesn't it seem kind of petty to mention you have a proto/rare dump but
bombman
12-12-2009, 11:39 AM
you're not going to release it? I mean the message just comes across as "haha i have this rom and you don't."
Btw this stems from someone saying they dumped the "Super Maruo" game for Famicom that he found on a pirate cart, but he's currently "hoarding" it
Why would you even mention it? Just... don't be a fag.
pseudonym
12-12-2009, 11:41 AM
....Not a good idea for a thread, this is going to turn into a shit storm pretty quick.
The Shawn
12-12-2009, 11:45 AM
IBTL.
:wink 2:
hellfire
12-12-2009, 11:45 AM
....Not a good idea for a thread, this is going to turn into a shit storm pretty quick.
thats an understatement
bombman
12-12-2009, 11:46 AM
Haha, bring on the shitstorm, I just wanted to bring it up, but I don't really have anything else to say.
skaar
12-12-2009, 11:47 AM
Troll thread is for trolls.
Baloo
12-12-2009, 11:58 AM
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn67/32BloodAssassin32/Funny/shit.jpg
pseudonym
12-12-2009, 12:02 PM
Quick! Lock this before one of the 'prototype guys' sees this thread! LOL
calthaer
12-12-2009, 12:08 PM
In before lock!
jcalder8
12-12-2009, 12:08 PM
Nope
Now for more important information: I love cheese!
TonyTheTiger
12-12-2009, 12:09 PM
you're not going to release it? I mean the message just comes across as "haha i have this rom and you don't."
I have a serious answer. At the very least it lets people know the thing exists. Fills the community in while simultaneously an implicit acknowledgment that "it might be for sale." It doesn't exactly do any good to find something and then lock it up in a vault without ever letting anybody know it's there.
The other stuff...I have my thoughts on. But they involve semi-complicated issues of value and market forces as well as some introspective looks about personal goals related to the lifespan of some of these games. In some sense, proto owners are racing the clock. It's not worth going into. Suffice to say it will take a bit more than a "Yo, look what I found" post to make me label that person a jackass.
AB Positive
12-12-2009, 12:13 PM
1) Collectability is often a reason for doing this... value goes down after a ROM dump.
2) Try to use better words than "fag". Douche.
Kid Ice
12-12-2009, 12:23 PM
Doesn't it seem kind of petty to post a catalog error as an unreleased game?
joshnickerson
12-12-2009, 12:41 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b235/joshnickerson/messageboard/beforelock.gif
DKTheArcadeRat
12-12-2009, 12:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdiz0k0Rudw
Enigmus
12-12-2009, 12:50 PM
1) Collectability is often a reason for doing this... value goes down after a ROM dump.
2) Try to use better words than "fag". Douche.
Yeah. Ass sandwich.
In der von dem schloss.
In before the lock.
Needs more proto-bacon.
FACEPALM 3000 FOR GAME BOY FOR EVERYBODY!
Mianrtcv
12-12-2009, 12:55 PM
Where is a good place to keep your popcorn during shitstorms?
GOLDEN KEYS
12-12-2009, 01:00 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b235/joshnickerson/messageboard/beforelock.gif
this is used way too much.
Ed Oscuro
12-12-2009, 01:19 PM
2) Try to use better words than "fag". Douche.
Hey, show some respect for female hygenic tools, will ya? Excuse me, "heeeeey." :-D I think that "queer" is an acceptable alternative here.
AB Positive
12-12-2009, 01:25 PM
Hey, show some respect for female hygenic tools, will ya? Excuse me, "heeeeey." :-D I think that "queer" is an acceptable alternative here.
I was waiting for this reply, thank you Ed. :D
Gameguy
12-12-2009, 01:30 PM
Btw this stems from someone saying they dumped the "Super Maruo" game for Famicom that he found on a pirate cart, but he's currently "hoarding" it
That doesn't even make sense. It's clearly not a prototype if it's from a pirate cart(if anything it's a homebrew or hack), and if it's on a pirate cart then it means it's already "out there". Pirates don't make carts to be a collectible, they make them to sell so they can get money.
In any case, most prototypes are only cool to own, not actually play. I don't see a point to releasing most of them which would only be played for a few minutes at most. There are some out there that are cool to play(sort of), and those seem to make it out eventually anyway.
Where is a good place to keep your popcorn during shitstorms?
Right beside you so you can enjoy it. :popcorn:
ryborg
12-12-2009, 01:40 PM
i am hoarding the proto for this game and you can't have it
http://i50.tinypic.com/rucupg.jpg
vivaeljason
12-12-2009, 01:51 PM
i am hoarding the proto for this game and you can't have it
http://i50.tinypic.com/rucupg.jpg
YOU BASTARD!
THE PUBLIC NEEDS CAKEDOGG!
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN MENTION IT?!?!
ryborg
12-12-2009, 01:53 PM
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN MENTION IT?!?!
because i'm a "fag" like the OP says
bombman
12-12-2009, 02:18 PM
Doesn't it seem kind of petty to post a catalog error as an unreleased game?
yeah, good thing no one here has ever done that
That doesn't even make sense. It's clearly not a prototype if it's from a pirate cart(if anything it's a homebrew or hack), and if it's on a pirate cart then it means it's already "out there". Pirates don't make carts to be a collectible, they make them to sell so they can get money.
Not a pirate cart, but an actual unlicensed game that was released through mail-order. Think Divine Sealing on the Mega Drive but about 20 times more valuable where people even want the pirate version. Same deal as MD Tetris, there are "official" pirates out there, so to speak. They have their own artwork, and are not so cheap.
The pirate Super Maruo sold for about $4000 on yahoo auctions. One store has the loose cart up for a million yen.
bombman
12-12-2009, 02:24 PM
Just think, if you say you dumped the proto, people are going to assume that you are going to put it on a website somewhere for them to play it. But wait! The dump is private or only a small circulation of users have access to it. Ok... so wouldn't it be better in that case NOT to call attention to the dump?
Enigmus
12-12-2009, 02:28 PM
i am hoarding the proto for this game and you can't have it
http://i50.tinypic.com/rucupg.jpg
That gave me more seizures than the flashing fish and boxes in Yellow Submarine.
Aussie2B
12-12-2009, 03:03 PM
this is used way too much.
You can never have too much Levar Burton.
Ed Oscuro
12-12-2009, 03:49 PM
You can never have too much Levar Burton.
Indeed. RIP Reading Rainbow :(
Not that I still watched it; that'd be kinda creepy.
RQ thread merge with "funniest moments in gaming"
megasdkirby
12-12-2009, 03:59 PM
I have a never released, unknown prototype called "Pornworld", which is the fifth of the Swordquest series! And it features Nolan Bushnell as the protagonist!
AND ITS ALL MINE!! MINE!!
LOL LOL
Like others have mentioned...in before the lock! :)
Aussie2B
12-12-2009, 04:14 PM
Indeed. RIP Reading Rainbow :(
Not that I still watched it; that'd be kinda creepy.
Hey, I still watch Reading Rainbow reruns whenever I can find 'em. :P
Gameguy
12-12-2009, 04:14 PM
Not a pirate cart, but an actual unlicensed game that was released through mail-order. Think Divine Sealing on the Mega Drive but about 20 times more valuable where people even want the pirate version. Same deal as MD Tetris, there are "official" pirates out there, so to speak. They have their own artwork, and are not so cheap.
The pirate Super Maruo sold for about $4000 on yahoo auctions. One store has the loose cart up for a million yen.
If it was released through mail order, then it's already out there somewhere. I can find the ROM for MD Tetris and that wasn't released at all, there's less than 10 copies known to have survived and made it into public hands. I'll try to find the ROM online somewhere, it would probably be on some Japanese site if anywhere.
Plus I love the description I came across for Super Maruo;
http://www.insertcredit.com/archives/001893.html
According to this site, Super Maruo was the first adult game to be (illegally) released for the Famicom on Dec 1986. It was apparently very badly made and had very little content but they sold it for 6,800 yen, resulting in very low sales, which also made this one of the rarest carts out there for the Famicom.
It doesn't seem like it needs to be dumped. I'll still keep an eye out for the cart since it's so valuable, not many people would know about it so I might stumble across a copy(maybe). To me it's a bit petty to complain about it since it's such a crappy game. Why do you want it so badly?
As for that other screenshot, it looks awesome. That would be a game worth playing.
Ed Oscuro
12-12-2009, 04:16 PM
Hey, I still watch Reading Rainbow reruns whenever I can find 'em. :P
There's nothing wrong with that... :O
Aussie2B
12-12-2009, 04:17 PM
Is Super Maruo actually Mario-related? Or were they just cashing off on name familiarity alone?
MASTERWEEDO
12-12-2009, 04:17 PM
I understand people being mad about this situation, but letting people know that something has been found is why they post it, and they dump it cuz they want to preserve it. i dont think i'd be in a hurry to spend a few hundred and put it up for free.
megasdkirby
12-12-2009, 04:23 PM
i dont think i'd be in a hurry to spend a few hundred and put it up for free.
Agreed.
I would first try and make it an investment, or at least try and regain the amount spent in one way or another, using the game itself. For instance, release a limited amount of copies of the game like other game collectors do.
I used to think that all games should be dumped, but I realized that not all situations are the same and everyone has their reasons for doing what they do.
I do hope, however, that the game is dumped privately (or archived/preserved/conserved/etc) in case the game ever dies. Maintain a personal backup, if you will. If I were to find a unreleased prototype, I would personally dump the game and keep the dump (LOL, sounds so nasty) in case the original ever dies out. Then I would try and make it an investment, if possible.
But it's hard to fork over a plethora of cash and just give it out for free.
Ed Oscuro
12-12-2009, 04:42 PM
Honestly, owning a prototype doesn't gives somebody rights to decide whether to hoard it or whatever since they don't own the copyright. While releasing a prototype is running directly afoul of the letter of the law, there's nothing especially admirable or considerate of the greater good about risking the last copy of some data to not get it backed up. (This would be going off on a tangent, but it's worth mentioning that some great works of art and literature have been digitized - the Last Supper, and most recently Charles Dickens' single manuscript of A Christmas Carol; we live in the digital age and it shows that museums or other institutions - who draw admissions and other fees - take their mandates seriously when they make these available to the public instead of hoarding them.) It doesn't make any business sense not to back up prototypes, either, because they're pretty worthless when they have no data on them.
If I were a copyright owner I'd be busting down doors and recovering intellectual property.
Gameguy
12-12-2009, 04:55 PM
Honestly, owning a prototype doesn't gives somebody rights to decide whether to hoard it or whatever since they don't own the copyright. While releasing a prototype is running directly afoul of the letter of the law, there's nothing especially admirable or considerate of the greater good about risking the last copy of some data to not get it backed up. (This would be going off on a tangent, but it's worth mentioning that some great works of art and literature have been digitized - the Last Supper, and most recently Charles Dickens' single manuscript of A Christmas Carol; we live in the digital age and it shows that museums or other institutions - who draw admissions and other fees - take their mandates seriously when they make these available to the public instead of hoarding them.) It doesn't make any business sense not to back up prototypes, either, because they're pretty worthless when they have no data on them.
If I were a copyright owner I'd be busting down doors and recovering intellectual property.
Super Maruo was backed up, the sites I've found about it mention that it was backed up but not released publicly. I've found posts that mention this that are about 2 years old, which is when the auction for the legit copy took place. I tried to look for a ROM but I couldn't find one, there's really few sites that talk about this game(I guess I was wrong about it being out there, still not a big loss IMO).
Plus, the sites I've found mention that Super Maruo was illegally produced to begin with, it would be funny of the makers tried to take someone to court over it for copyright issues.
Ed Oscuro
12-12-2009, 04:58 PM
I wasn't talking about whatever that crap is. In that case, I think it's just a bunch of sadness that somebody would even try to get money for it; more power to anybody who can pull it off.
Maybe this suggests a new distribution method to ProgAge for BFA? ROFL
I do hope, however, that the game is dumped privately (or archived/preserved/conserved/etc) in case the game ever dies. Maintain a personal backup, if you will. If I were to find a unreleased prototype, I would personally dump the game and keep the dump (LOL, sounds so nasty) in case the original ever dies out. Then I would try and make it an investment, if possible.
This is exactly the reason for telling someone you dumped a game. Ok guys, it is dumped, no need to worry that the game is lost forever.
SegaAges
12-12-2009, 05:12 PM
i am hoarding the proto for this game and you can't have it
http://i50.tinypic.com/rucupg.jpg
Thanks, you gave me a seizure
portnoyd
12-12-2009, 05:13 PM
Maybe this suggests a new distribution method to ProgAge for BFA? ROFL
If it does, also suggest to get his vanishing act ass to make to with the fucking refunds.
megasdkirby
12-12-2009, 05:14 PM
This is exactly the reason for telling someone you dumped a game. Ok guys, it is dumped, no need to worry that the game is lost forever.
Yes.
But I am pretty sure some don't even want to dump the game.
Which is quite scary in case it gets lost forever.
I just hope that these kind of folk are in the minority.
Kitsune Sniper
12-12-2009, 05:18 PM
I've sent off prototype games to get dumped. Sadly, the big 3DO lot I sent still hasn't been released. The second proto game I found had no data.
The third is a crap Genesis game nobody cares about.
Why can't I find decent protos. T_T
(Inbeforethelock, y'all)
Ed Oscuro
12-12-2009, 05:56 PM
This is exactly the reason for telling someone you dumped a game. Ok guys, it is dumped, no need to worry that the game is lost forever.
Until the Windows boot drive it's being stored on dies, anyways...people love to cheap out on hard drives.
If it does, also suggest to get his vanishing act ass to make to with the fucking refunds.
I was very tempted to write "ProgScammingace" :-D
BeaglePuss
12-12-2009, 06:41 PM
Agreed.
I would first try and make it an investment, or at least try and regain the amount spent in one way or another, using the game itself. For instance, release a limited amount of copies of the game like other game collectors do.
I used to think that all games should be dumped, but I realized that not all situations are the same and everyone has their reasons for doing what they do.
I do hope, however, that the game is dumped privately (or archived/preserved/conserved/etc) in case the game ever dies. Maintain a personal backup, if you will. If I were to find a unreleased prototype, I would personally dump the game and keep the dump (LOL, sounds so nasty) in case the original ever dies out. Then I would try and make it an investment, if possible.
But it's hard to fork over a plethora of cash and just give it out for free.
This is pretty much exactly what I try and do with my prototypes, and I'm glad you mentioned it.
For the most interesting prototypes I own, I try and do a release (like that of Hoppin' Mad, and soon Kitty's Catch) for a number of reasons. First off, it helps off-set what I paid for the game initially. I've paid well over $1K on more than one occasion, so I have to make up some of the cost. It also gives collectors a game that will play on original hardware and look sweet on a shelf. After my release sells out, I release the rom for free for those that just want to give it a try. It seems nearly everyone wins out that way.
All of my prototypes are backed up on a number of computers. Anyone that collects prototypes would be crazy to not back up their data. That's just dumb. People want protos, not paper weights.
I also try and release a rom once a month to the community. The games are typically released titles, and the devaluing would be minimal for the most part. It's also a nice way to say thanks to the people that help fund my prototype collecting. Without them I wouldn't be quick to drop a few thousand on an unreleased title.
I will say that there are a few reasons why games shouldn't be dumped and distributed. Games like "Socks the Cat" can't be released due to some agreement Dream had with the seller. You have to respect that, and the fact that it's in a highly regarded collector's hands is good enough for me.
Both Dream and I also own Tetris prototypes that were to be released by Tegen and licensed by Nintendo. I would love to release the rom, but I don't want to fuck with Nintendo. That's a battle I don't think I could win. Think of what happened with RE 1.5. . .
All in all, I will say that there are more prototypes being released to the community than ever before. The Assembler forums are constantly releasing roms, Hidden Palace has recently gotten in on the action, NA has been putting some out for the past two years or so, and Mark and I are trying are best to get roms out with some regularity. It's a good time to be a freeloader ;)
As for people complaining about the collector not owning the rights to the rom, it's not like the programmers weren't paid for their work. They got a pay check that had nothing to do with their game seeing a release. The fact that some hobbyist releases a game for a 20+ year old system doesn't have any bearing on them, so I'm not sure where that argument comes from.
In closing, Mark and I have a very special release that we hope to get out before the end of the year. We've hit some (*lots*) of snags along the way, but it will certainly be worth it in the long run. And yes, it will be completely free for everyone to enjoy.
megasdkirby
12-12-2009, 06:50 PM
Both Dream and I also own Tetris prototypes that were to be released by Tegen and licensed by Nintendo. I would love to release the rom, but I don't want to fuck with Nintendo. That's a battle I don't think I could win. Think of what happened with RE 1.5. . .
Interesting point. One would figure that with a high profile game, a company would go ape shit and do whatever they can to "punish" the person who released the rom. That's quite understandable. But is there actually a difference between releasing an unreleased ROM to a commercially available ROM? Although I know Nintendo would throw a fit if someone releases the ROM to an intellectual property they own, but what degree of severity would it be to release an actual released game like "Super Mario 64" or an unreleased GB game (say a fictitious "Pokemon Turd Edition" for instance)? I would not think that releasing a commercial ROM would be any different than releasing a prototype ROM. Would there?
BeaglePuss
12-12-2009, 06:55 PM
Interesting point. One would figure that with a high profile game, a company would go ape shit and do whatever they can to "punish" the person who released the rom. That's quite understandable. But is there actually a difference between releasing an unreleased ROM to a commercially available ROM? Although I know Nintendo would throw a fit if someone releases the ROM to an intellectual property they own, but what degree of severity would it be to release an actual released game like "Super Mario 64" or an unreleased GB game (say a fictitious "Pokemon Turd Edition" for instance)? I would not think that releasing a commercial ROM would be any different than releasing a prototype ROM. Would there?
That's an excellent point, and to be honest with you, I had never even thought of it until you mentioned it.
I haven't released any first party prototypes, but not out of fear per say but more because I don't have any others to release (none that I can think of offhand).
The only reason I think a dump of an unreleased first party game would be a bold move is because of how much more attention it would get compared to many/most released games. A Zelda or SMB prototype would bring a ton of publicity with it, but I don't think something like Gumshoe would have the same effect. That's just pure speculation on my behalf though.
bombman
12-12-2009, 07:12 PM
Why do you want it so badly?
Because I used to have it years ago, and I threw it out with the rest of my crappy FC games, I remember it being hilarious but I only played it once. Mario chases Peach or whoever around and rapes her Custer's Revenge style. It was freaking hilarious and I wanted to show it to some irl friends. Then I find out it's rare as shit and there's no ROM for it.
BeaglePuss
12-12-2009, 07:14 PM
Because I used to have it years ago, and I threw it out with the rest of my crappy FC games, I remember it being hilarious but I only played it once. Mario chases Peach or whoever around and rapes her Custer's Revenge style. It was freaking hilarious and I wanted to show it to some irl friends. Then I find out it's rare as shit and there's no ROM for it.
So this thread is less about the ethics surrounding prototype collecting and more about 8-Bit rape?
In that case, this is clearly the most civil prototype discussion in the history of the site.
SplashChick
12-12-2009, 07:25 PM
Hey, show some respect for female hygenic tools, will ya? Excuse me, "heeeeey." :-D I think that "queer" is an acceptable alternative here.
"Queer" in that context is equally offensive, dick.
The only reason I think a dump of an unreleased first party game would be a bold move is because of how much more attention it would get compared to many/most released games. A Zelda or SMB prototype would bring a ton of publicity with it, but I don't think something like Gumshoe would have the same effect. That's just pure speculation on my behalf though.
I am not sure that I necessarily agree with this argument, though I definitely respect it as you and your brother have done a lot for the community, and no need for a big lawsuit. Seeing that a prototype for SMB2 was released without trouble, I don't think that a proto version of Tetris would go very much noticed, especially with 3 Famicom/NES version, and so many knock offs on PC, Sega, etc. However, if you did make copies of the licensed Tengen versio of Tetris (assuming it is different than the shit Nintendo version and the unlicensed Tengen version), I would line up and grab it, as unlike some of the unreleased games such as Hoppin Mad, Tetris is something I enjoy playing and would actually play more than once.
BeaglePuss
12-12-2009, 07:37 PM
I am not sure that I necessarily agree with this argument, though I definitely respect it as you and your brother have done a lot for the community, and no need for a big lawsuit. Seeing that a prototype for SMB2 was released without trouble, I don't think that a proto version of Tetris would go very much noticed, especially with 3 Famicom/NES version, and so many knock offs on PC, Sega, etc. However, if you did make copies of the licensed Tengen versio of Tetris (assuming it is different than the shit Nintendo version and the unlicensed Tengen version), I would line up and grab it, as unlike some of the unreleased games such as Hoppin Mad, Tetris is something I enjoy playing and would actually play more than once.
Good point on all accounts. I will say that even though there are plenty of pirates of Tetris out there, I don't want to be the one that gets slammed by a lawsuit. I'm a middle school science teacher and I barely make enough to buy games let alone pay for a lawyer LOL
I hate to thread-jack, but I will say that the Tetris we own is much different than the other two released on the NES. I will post some cool screen caps if you'd like, but again, I don't want to derail this thread anymore than I already have.
SplashChick
12-12-2009, 07:42 PM
Do It
BeaglePuss
12-12-2009, 07:53 PM
Do It
Ask and you shall receive:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n223/mrmark0673/nintendo/100_1424.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n223/mrmark0673/nintendo/100_1422.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n223/mrmark0673/nintendo/100_1421.jpg
I have a picture of the cart somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment. I can snap a pic later if I have to. It's an especially cool looking prototype.
Greg2600
12-12-2009, 07:56 PM
I am personally fine with prototype owners asking for a donation up to a certain point, before releasing a PT. After all, they usually have to pay a good chunk to get it. I am also fine if someone releases the prototype and also offers the game as a physical cartridge. Even though you could be making money on the sale of the carts, it's still being offered as a rom for free.
What I've never liked is someone gets a prototype, dumps it, but only releases it as a $50 game or even more expensive. You didn't get permission from the author or copyright holder. It's not a homebrew, or a reproduction of a widely available (rom) game. I could see selling it at cost of materials, but not with a profit. That's the most unethical I think.
BeaglePuss
12-12-2009, 08:05 PM
I am personally fine with prototype owners asking for a donation up to a certain point, before releasing a PT. After all, they usually have to pay a good chunk to get it. I am also fine if someone releases the prototype and also offers the game as a physical cartridge. Even though you could be making money on the sale of the carts, it's still being offered as a rom for free.
What I've never liked is someone gets a prototype, dumps it, but only releases it as a $50 game or even more expensive. You didn't get permission from the author or copyright holder. It's not a homebrew, or a reproduction of a widely available (rom) game. I could see selling it at cost of materials, but not with a profit. That's the most unethical I think.
I respect your point of view, but I see it completely backwards.
Anyone can buy a game and then charge for a rom dump. It takes about ten minutes to do that, and anyone in the world could do it with almost no effort.
Doing a repro release takes thousands of dollars and hundreds of man hours. It takes serious dedication to do such a release, and the amount of money that the repro makers make in return would equate to about $1-$2 per hour. You have to buy donors, buy EPROMs, disassemble the donors, desolder chips, remove labels, program EPROMs, solder new EPROMs, reassemble carts, apply repro art work, create packaging, and ship to 100 potential buyers. There's nothing selfish about it honestly, and the "profit" is laughable.
Some people are totally fine with selling/paying for rom dumps, but that's never been my style. It boils down to different strokes for different folks I suppose.
Those screen caps are very nice, I had seen some of Dreams version a long time ago, I think. Maybe some day we will see a repro version made...
bombman
12-12-2009, 08:38 PM
The guy who makes VirtualBoy flash carts has a prototype ROM. He said he would put it on the one I'm ordering for an extra 100 euros.
mrmark0673
12-12-2009, 08:51 PM
The guy who makes VirtualBoy flash carts has a prototype ROM. He said he would put it on the one I'm ordering for an extra 100 euros.
Let me guess, Bound High? I received a similar offer a long while back, but I don't collect ROMs.
Sniderman
12-12-2009, 08:51 PM
Just... don't be a fag.
I'll ask the same thing of you, only instead of "fag," I'll substitute the word "Assclown."
This has remained moderately civil, but nothing good ever comes from these proto dumping challengers. Plus my feelings have been stated in my sig for a while now.
<TOTALLY EXPECTED EVENTUAL LOCK>