Star Fox 2 snes [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

Thrashdance

12-18-2009, 09:00 PM

You do realize some outstanding citizen will flag it as being illegal. Because, technically, it is. But hey, who knows, you might win and have your own bootleg.

Why would it be illegal? No one is loosing money from a repro being available. If the only way to play a game in your native language is to play a rom that was never released in your country on a emulator, which is free anyway, there should be no problem right? Its not like a bootleg, because repro makers are not marketing the carts as if they were the actual professional game.

fahlim003

12-18-2009, 09:10 PM

I'm actually bidding on that copy up now..haha!

This one? http://cgi.ebay.com/Starfox-2-SNES-Game_W0QQitemZ130352477242QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Vi ntage_Video_Games?hash=item1e599cf43a

Sweet zombie jesus, that's expensive, as is international shipping.

Then there's another with Weekend Comp.: http://cgi.ebay.com/StarFox-Super-Weekend-and-Star-Fox-2-for-SNES-RARE_W0QQitemZ250549749256QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo _Games_Games?hash=item3a55edc608

retroman

12-18-2009, 10:20 PM

in a way yes. go to gamereproductions.com you can buy the cartridge there.

badinsults

12-18-2009, 11:30 PM

One would think that people would start to get that "Starfox Super Weekend" is properly termed "Super Starfox Weekend" after my article. After researching, I don't know how people got thinking that it was the sooner. Nintendo's advertisements clearly state it is the "Super Starfox Weekend".

Also, paying big bucks for a repro = lulz

Shadow Kisuragi

12-18-2009, 11:34 PM

Then there's another with Weekend Comp.: http://cgi.ebay.com/StarFox-Super-Weekend-and-Star-Fox-2-for-SNES-RARE_W0QQitemZ250549749256QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo _Games_Games?hash=item3a55edc608

I like how he doesn't state that StarFox 2 is a reproduction cartridge. The real question is if the Super StarFox Weekend cartridge is a reproduction...

Fuyukaze

12-19-2009, 01:10 AM

I like how he doesn't state that StarFox 2 is a reproduction cartridge. The real question is if the Super StarFox Weekend cartridge is a reproduction...

I'm going with both as being a repro. They both look like scams and should be reported. Owning a repro isnt the problem. It's selling repros as if they were anything but that's at issue here.

Icarus Moonsight

12-19-2009, 02:06 AM

Hand is in the photo. Should be included in the sale. :p

nhm

12-19-2009, 02:26 AM

Why would it be illegal? No one is loosing money from a repro being available. If the only way to play a game in your native language is to play a rom that was never released in your country on a emulator, which is free anyway, there should be no problem right? Its not like a bootleg, because repro makers are not marketing the carts as if they were the actual professional game.

In short, yes, it is illegal. BUT, if the copyright holders don't go after the sellers, it's a moot point. It's the copyright holder's responsibility to defend their copyrights and trademarks. It's not worth it for the big companies to go after products that they can't sell and make a profit from.

Contrary to what many collectors may think, there simply isn't a large market for reproduction NES and SNES games. For a VERY small niche market, yes. For a mass market, no.

Icarus Moonsight

12-19-2009, 02:33 AM

Well, even if it doesn't break eBay policy for sell able items it does bend it (it's a gray area). That would be eBay's call to make whether the 'owner' speaks up or not. It would save eBay the trouble to make a decision if the 'owner' were to make a stink though. They'd just yank it to be safe then.

GameBoyGeek

12-19-2009, 11:21 AM

Ive seen bootleg after boot leg of other items on eBay so I don't see why it should be reported unless they don't mention it. Which the auction I won over at game gavel did not nor do the ones on eBay. I don't mind buying a boot leg of anything however I would like to know that, that's what I'm buying when I'm buying it.

Richter Belmount

12-23-2009, 09:53 PM

Only a idiot would think a reproduction is a real cart.

mobiusclimber

12-23-2009, 10:33 PM

And yet I see idiots buying NES Earthbound carts for $100 all the damn time on Ebay.

old_skoolin_jim

12-24-2009, 09:58 AM

I know the game was never released to the pubic

You know you need a trim when you're finding SNES carts down there...
lol

GameBoyGeek

12-24-2009, 03:05 PM

You know you need a trim when you're finding SNES carts down there...
lol

......WOW......I have no words for that one....frankly ive out done myself with that one.....that was just beyond stupid lol. Yeah I found some kinda game about a rat down there last week. Been looking for that one for years now....lol

Oh and Richter Belmount I would almost agree with that statement except for the fact that well I like a lot of people here have a life outside of video games and to be completely honest. I just really don't have time to do the research on things of that nature. I barely get to post here because of how busy I keep myself. Now I can only guess that your not talking about me with your statement and even if you are then well good on you, you have managed to insult someone over the internet for lack of knowledge on their part good for you. Give your self a pat on the shoulder for me.

That being said is it really needed for people to make comments like that? I mean...do you feel better about yourself for pointing out someone else's mistakes and lack of knowledge about something over the internet? Do you feel that insulting said person makes you a better person? I'm asking because people that make comments like that online have always confused me. Ive always ignored things like that in the past but the stupidity of comments of that nature has finally over taken me so I ask you this my friend...how does it really make you feel?:frustrated:

tubeway

12-24-2009, 03:52 PM

Settle down. Everyone here enjoys a good genitalia-related joke. It's all in good fun.

Greg2600

12-24-2009, 04:45 PM

in a way yes. go to gamereproductions.com you can buy the cartridge there.
It's $100 from them! Ouch

GameBoyGeek

12-24-2009, 06:12 PM

Settle down. Everyone here enjoys a good genitalia-related joke. It's all in good fun.

Im all for genitalia jokes my issue wasn't with that at all.:| I honestly laughed when Jim pointed out that I said pubic instead of public thats all good :)

buzz_n64

12-25-2009, 12:41 PM

poloplayr

12-25-2009, 12:56 PM

......WOW......I have no words for that one....frankly ive out done myself with that one.....that was just beyond stupid lol. Yeah I found some kinda game about a rat down there last week. Been looking for that one for years now....lol

Oh and Richter Belmount I would almost agree with that statement except for the fact that well I like a lot of people here have a life outside of video games and to be completely honest. I just really don't have time to do the research on things of that nature. I barely get to post here because of how busy I keep myself. Now I can only guess that your not talking about me with your statement and even if you are then well good on you, you have managed to insult someone over the internet for lack of knowledge on their part good for you. Give your self a pat on the shoulder for me.

That being said is it really needed for people to make comments like that? I mean...do you feel better about yourself for pointing out someone else's mistakes and lack of knowledge about something over the internet? Do you feel that insulting said person makes you a better person? I'm asking because people that make comments like that online have always confused me. Ive always ignored things like that in the past but the stupidity of comments of that nature has finally over taken me so I ask you this my friend...how does it really make you feel?:frustrated:

you need to get laid.

fahlim003

12-25-2009, 01:50 PM

$100 for a repro does sound kinda high, but star fox 2 supposidly had the most advanced fx chip out there. I still doubt that these reproducers were able to get a hold of these chips or create them. Maybe they're running on tried and tested older fx chip technology, if that's the case, lower the damn price a little. Maybe $69-$75 is reasonable.

All it takes to make repros is the following:
solder, soldering iron, some length of solid core small gauge wire, eproms(Edit), an eprom(Edit) burner, a computer, the internet, hands and possibly a brain, and most important of all a suitable donor cartridge.

Star Fox 2 requires Winter Gold (PAL), Doom (as I've heard), or Stunt Race FX. Possibly others but needless to say none of these cartridges cost more than $10 a piece. Generally speaking, when you see the price of a reproduction the cost is generally doubled, thanks to labour. Speaking for myself, I have access to everything pardon an eeprom burner as I suspect most people are but they aren't too expensive to start but can be very pricey (from $30 to upwards of $300). Otherwise, all the information on how to make a cartridge is available on the web so it's not as if the reproduction centers (for SNES anyway) hold all the keys.

buzz_n64

12-25-2009, 03:31 PM

All it takes to make repros is the following:
solder, soldering iron, some length of solid core small gauge wire, eeproms, an eeprom burner, a computer, the internet, hands and possibly a brain, and most important of all a suitable donor cartridge.

Star Fox 2 requires Winter Gold (PAL), Doom (as I've heard), or Stunt Race FX. Possibly others but needless to say none of these cartridges cost more than $10 a piece. Generally speaking, when you see the price of a reproduction the cost is generally doubled, thanks to labour. Speaking for myself, I have access to everything pardon an eeprom burner as I suspect most people are but they aren't too expensive to start but can be very pricey (from $30 to upwards of $300). Otherwise, all the information on how to make a cartridge is available on the web so it's not as if the reproduction centers (for SNES anyway) hold all the keys.

Ok, I have a soldering iron, solder core iron, a computer, internet, hands, 3/4 brain. So I'm almost there. There is a reason why there's only a handful of people that do it. Expensive equipment, knowledge, and will power. I applaud the people who make these totally, but I'm not going to try it myself. I needed help to mod my saturn, and even fucked up on a case mod on my ps2.

GameBoyGeek

12-25-2009, 04:11 PM

you need to get laid.

I know....it wont happen until the 14th of january when my fiance gets back from cali.......:frustrated:

But I still stand by what I said. No point in people being a-holes just to do it. That's all im trying to say.

GameBoyGeek

12-25-2009, 04:16 PM

Richter Belmount

12-25-2009, 04:40 PM

I wasn't talking about you , I think you only managed to insult yourself now.

GameBoyGeek

12-25-2009, 04:42 PM

Meh... not really. Just pointing out a view i have since you weren't talking about me then the comment doesn't apply to you. You just pointed out something I didn't like so I just went with it. No hard feelings.

jupitersj

12-26-2009, 08:51 PM

Necrosaro420

12-26-2009, 10:06 PM

All it takes to make repros is the following:
solder, soldering iron, some length of solid core small gauge wire, eeproms, an eeprom burner, a computer, the internet, hands and possibly a brain, and most important of all a suitable donor cartridge.

Star Fox 2 requires Winter Gold (PAL), Doom (as I've heard), or Stunt Race FX. Possibly others but needless to say none of these cartridges cost more than $10 a piece. Generally speaking, when you see the price of a reproduction the cost is generally doubled, thanks to labour. Speaking for myself, I have access to everything pardon an eeprom burner as I suspect most people are but they aren't too expensive to start but can be very pricey (from $30 to upwards of $300). Otherwise, all the information on how to make a cartridge is available on the web so it's not as if the reproduction centers (for SNES anyway) hold all the keys.

If you want to make and sell the cart for $20, be my guest =) There is 32 wires that you have to rewire inside of the cart, its not as simple as you make it out to be. This isnt my picture below, but it just shows how complex and much work has to go into this game. Removing the old chip, which on this donor game is VERY easy to rip the traces or cut them, rewire 32 individual signals, removal of the battery and putting it on the other side, modifying the cart shells insides so that everything fits inside etc.

http://kogami02.free.fr/Tuto/Tuto_StarFox_2/08.jpg

fahlim003

12-26-2009, 10:26 PM

If you want to make and sell the cart for $20, be my guest =) There is 32 wires that you have to rewire inside of the cart, its not as simple as you make it out to be. This isnt my picture below, but it just shows how complex and much work has to go into this game. Removing the old chip, which on this donor game is VERY easy to rip the traces or cut them, rewire 32 individual signals, removal of the battery and putting it on the other side, modifying the cart shells insides so that everything fits inside etc.

http://kogami02.free.fr/Tuto/Tuto_StarFox_2/08.jpg

If you have experience soldering, the number of wires matters not. It takes a little time and some patience. I would've made my own cartridge had I an eprom(Edit) burner. Unsoldering components (old eprom(Edit) and battery) are not difficult either. This speaks to those who have experience soldering. It's not as if there is only one guy doing this. One look on google sees dozens of people making and often selling reproduction cartridges. Hardly rocket science. Of course, without experience it can seem daunting but I can only speak for myself; I would have no trouble re-wiring & un-soldering/soldering my own cartridge(s). The information on how to do it is out there. How else do you think all these reproduction outfits found out in the first place?

I stand by my statement that the cost is mainly incurred by labour. It takes time and I don't think it's invalid. I would say part of it is also the market as most other reproduction groups are charging X price, so the next guy charges X or very close to it. To put a premium on Star Fox 2 over Seiken Densetsu 3 or other large/multi-roms is where I have issue but to each their own.

Necrosaro420

12-26-2009, 10:33 PM

If you have experience soldering, the number of wires matters not. It takes a little time and some patience. I would've made my own cartridge had I an eeprom burner. Unsoldering components (old eeprom and battery) are not difficult either. This speaks to those who have experience soldering. It's not as if there is only one guy doing this. One look on google sees dozens of people making and often selling reproduction cartridges. Hardly rocket science. Of course, without experience it can seem daunting but I can only speak for myself; I would have no trouble re-wiring & un-soldering/soldering my own cartridge(s). The information on how to do it is out there. How else do you think all these reproduction outfits found out in the first place?

I stand by my statement that the cost is mainly incurred by labour. It takes time and I don't think it's invalid. I would say part of it is also the market as most other reproduction groups are charging X price, so the next guy charges X or very close to it. To put a premium on Star Fox 2 over Seiken Densetsu 3 or other large/multi-roms is where I have issue but to each their own.

SD3 would cost more, basically the same amount of wiring as Starfox 2, Plus 3 extra chips, and extra 74s chip wired in, etc.

GameBoyGeek

12-26-2009, 10:38 PM

If people can't be bothered to do a tiny bit of research on expensive item purchases for a hobby(or anything really), or don't have the time to...then they shouldn't be making the purchase or have time to use said item anyway.

Trying to market a repro as a proto/real is scumlord low though; I'm not insinuating that the auction listed is doing such as I haven't looked at it.

I like my hobby I think I'll stick with it regardless of the time I have. Just try to do more research next time. You live you learn no one is perfect regardless of what people might think of them selves.

Joshie

12-27-2009, 05:07 AM

SD3 would cost more, basically the same amount of wiring as Starfox 2, Plus 3 extra chips, and extra 74s chip wired in, etc.

Unfortunately people are paying for your more expensive methods and exaggerated soldering times when there are cheaper ways :)

kogami

12-27-2009, 02:50 PM

He ! But it is my photo :villagepeople:

In France have had the same problem with certain sellers (As a Rendering Ranger R� cartmodd sold as an original).

Dred

12-27-2009, 04:30 PM

In France have had the same problem with certain sellers (As a Rendering Ranger R� cartmodd sold as an original).
Yeah, exactly. A few days ago I saw on german eBay a repro of SD3 (english) selling as a original with the japanease box and manual for 150 euros. LOL! Speak of the devil, but with no box... http://cgi.ebay.pl/Secret-of-Mana-2-PAL-eng_W0QQitemZ330390099506QQihZ014QQcategoryZ37211Q QcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3D LVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D2%26ps%3D6

I talked with Siudym/Mydius (Romlab author), and he said that it's possible to make repros for REALLY cheaper prices (10-50 $).

Necrosaro420

12-27-2009, 04:47 PM

Unfortunately people are paying for your more expensive methods and exaggerated soldering times when there are cheaper ways :)

I never stated how long it takes to do, but nice try =)

fahlim003

12-27-2009, 05:25 PM

Unfortunately people are paying for your more expensive methods and exaggerated soldering times when there are cheaper ways :)

This isn't fair at all, since the soldering time is lengthy no matter what way you slice it. I mentioned before most of the cost is incurred by the labour, which is justified. If had I an eprom(Edit) burner, I'd simply make my own for about half of the cost. Anyone with some time, experience, and patience can do it too (although it is easier said than done for most games). I don't think groups like Necrosaro are out for blood, I think they are justified and they give those with the $ to spend who cannot do it themselves the opportunity to have their own reproductions, but for someone like myself I just don't agree entirely on the pricing since there isn't a true benchmark to what the cost should be.

Joshie

12-28-2009, 01:39 AM

This isn't fair at all, since the soldering time is lengthy no matter what way you slice it. I mentioned before most of the cost is incurred by the labour, which is justified. If had I an eeprom burner, I'd simply make my own for a fraction of the cost. Anyone with some time, experience, and patience can do it too (although it is easier said than done for most games). I don't think groups like Necrosaro are out for blood, I think they are justified and they give those with the $ to spend who cannot do it themselves the opportunity to have their own reproductions, but for someone like myself I just don't agree entirely on the pricing since there isn't a true benchmark to what the cost should be.

The soldering time takes me 10-15 minutes, I am not sure how lengthy that is :)

Necrosaro420

12-28-2009, 09:08 AM

The soldering time takes me 10-15 minutes, I am not sure how lengthy that is :)

Do you do this in a factory or something? Its impossible to do this in 10-15 minutes

shadowkn55

12-28-2009, 11:35 AM

Do you do this in a factory or something? Its impossible to do this in 10-15 minutes

If it's just the soldering of the wires from the board to the eprom, it's doable in that time frame. But there are other things to consider as well besides just soldering wires: cutting and stripping 32 lengths of wires, removing mask rom (this is highly variable depending on the method chosen and donor used), and chip programming. The preparation can be the longest and most tedious part of the process.

If you follow the repro tutorials to the letter, it'll probably take longer due to plastic cutting. A neatly made repro and properly positioned eprom(s) won't require any plastic cutting.

PS: Repros uses eproms, not eeproms. There is a big difference between the two.

Joshie

12-28-2009, 12:44 PM

If it's just the soldering of the wires from the board to the eprom, it's doable in that time frame. But there are other things to consider as well besides just soldering wires: cutting and stripping 32 lengths of wires, removing mask rom (this is highly variable depending on the method chosen and donor used), and chip programming. The preparation can be the longest and most tedious part of the process.

If you follow the repro tutorials to the letter, it'll probably take longer due to plastic cutting. A neatly made repro and properly positioned eprom(s) won't require any plastic cutting.

PS: Repros uses eproms, not eeproms. There is a big difference between the two.

Well, if you are using 27c801 (which he is), you can rearrange the binary so you can do almost a straight pin (you only would need to reroute the OE and A18 traces), then your eproms could fit nicely in the provided socket without all those awkward wires :) You could easily get 4 in there (two on top of the board, two under). The 74*139 would need wires but I don't think that is very time consuming either...

shadowkn55

12-28-2009, 01:05 PM

Well, if you are using 27c801 (which he is), you can rearrange the binary so you can do almost a straight pin (you only would need to reroute the OE and A17 traces, and use just one short thick wire to solder to the +5v after lifting it over to the next pin), then your eproms could fit nicely in the provided socket without all those awkward wires :) You could easily get 4 in there (two on top of the board, two under). The ls139 would need wires but I don't think that is very time consuming either...

Doing the bit swapping only reduces the amount of work by a negligible amount and is hardly worth doing. It's makes troubleshooting more difficult if something goes wrong. If you put the eproms in that configuration, you'll never get the cart shell to close. It's better to use 1 in the socket and 3 piggbacked and jumpered to the socket. Adding the 139 isn't that big of a deal either.

The main cost of a repro is labor. Everything differs on what they feel their time is worth. Not everyone enjoys being paid $5/hour for tedious work. If you feel that you can provide the same product for less, then you are free to do so. Necrosaro420 provides a service for those that don't have the time/ability to make their own. He feels his time is worth the prices listed on his website. If people think his prices are too high, they won't be buy it. Plain and simple.

Joshie

12-28-2009, 01:33 PM

Doing the bit swapping only reduces the amount of work by a negligible amount and is hardly worth doing. It's makes troubleshooting more difficult if something goes wrong. If you put the eproms in that configuration, you'll never get the cart shell to close. It's better to use 1 in the socket and 3 piggbacked and jumpered to the socket. Adding the 139 isn't that big of a deal either.

The main cost of a repro is labor. Everything differs on what they feel their time is worth. Not everyone enjoys being paid $5/hour for tedious work. If you feel that you can provide the same product for less, then you are free to do so. Necrosaro420 provides a service for those that don't have the time/ability to make their own. He feels his time is worth the prices listed on his website. If people think his prices are too high, they won't be buy it. Plain and simple.

You just stated that preparing 32 wires is time consuming. If you didn't have to prepare 32 wires, that would be less time (not just negligible) yes? Also, rearranging the binary is easy, and if you know what you are doing, doesn't require troubleshooting. If you are making repros over and over, I would call it anything but not worth it. Physical work has to be done every time at your speed, but anything software related can be done much more quickly (and allows you to multitask), especially over many devices. Offloading any physical work is a good idea.

shadowkn55

12-28-2009, 01:51 PM

You just stated that preparing 32 wires is time consuming. If you didn't have to prepare 32 wires, that would be less time (not just negligible) yes? Also, rearranging the binary is easy, and if you know what you are doing, doesn't require troubleshooting. If you are making repros over and over, I would call it anything but not worth it. Physical work has to be done every time at your speed, but anything software related can be done much more quickly (and allows you to multitask), especially over many devices. Offloading any physical work is a good idea.

Pin swapping doesn't save you any wires. It only makes the wiring more straight forward. The only time pin swapping would be of any use would be when the game fits in a single 8-bit eprom. Even if you know what you are doing, it's not unheard to have two swapped wires adjacent to each other when doing the piggyback and jumper method.

Not prepping the wires would greatly reduce the time required but as of yet, there isn't a solution like the repropak for the snes. Everyone will have to resort to rewiring since the maskrom pinout isn't pin compatible with any JEDEC part.

No offense, but you are making all these assumptions yet it doesn't sound like you have built one using 8-bit eproms.

TxFxL

12-28-2009, 01:56 PM

i've recently gotten a couple of snes games from Necrosaro420 through his site, www.gamereproductions.co, still waiting on one more from him. fantastic work and worth every penny, his labor is worth the price tag. i just wish he'd make some more titles available!

Joshie

12-28-2009, 02:01 PM

No offense, but you are making all these assumptions yet it doesn't sound like you have built one using 8-bit eproms.
Correct. I find using 4 roms to build a 32M cartridge to be too pricey when you could use a single m27c322 and one of the many ways to address it for a full 32 (or just use it straight for 16 or less).

My assumption that 4 should fit stacked could possibly be wrong, but I don't see why you wouldn't rearrange the bits when its a simple as running a second or two script on the binary.