Complicated Classic games?

[Richter Belmount]

Complicated classic games , Im talking about the kind of games that seem like they were ahead of its time. Gameplay that requires alot of different parameters , management or that has alot of content. Games like New Horizons which is not only a rpg but a simulation that requires tons of management. Or even ogre battle.

[BetaWolf47]

Shingen the Ruler

[cityside75]

Elite for the C64. Not sure if the NES version is as complicated.

[vivaeljason]

Utopia for the Intellivision. As the first sim game and first God game, it's definitely ahead of its time, and its definitely not intuitive like later games in both genres.

[Night Driver]

Superman for the 2600.

[Smashed Brother]

X-Com (PSX, PC) would definitely qualify. There are many, many layers to this hardcore, early 90's tactical strategy/sim game and it is in no way streamlined for the average, casual gamer. I'm pretty sure that today's ADHD-afflicted Wiimote-wielding generation of gamers wouldn't even get through the beginning base-building portion before tossing this game into the 'do-not-play' pile.

[skaar]

Nogabungabinbong's Ambition was to destroy minds. I never had the patience for the series.

[Graham Mitchell]

Starflight on the Genesis is pretty complex, and I understand the PC versions of both Starflight 1 and 2 are even more demanding.

I actually found a lot of the earlier Ultima games to be rather complex. Even the NES version of Ultima Exodus has a lot going on--managing food, characters getting ill, with absolutely no indication from the game of where you're supposed to go or what you're supposed to do next.

Although I haven't played it, the Genesis and PC versions of Dune II appear to be on the level of X-com in detail and complexity.

And hey, for it's time, Simcity was pretty involved as well. I'd never played anything that detailed when the SNES version came out. The only thing that came close in that genre for me prior to that was Populous.

[MASTERWEEDO]

i thought "Theme Park for the Genesis was kinda complicated, and one i could play endlessly.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

X-Com (PSX, PC) would definitely qualify. There are many, many layers to this hardcore, early 90's tactical strategy/sim game and it is in no way streamlined for the average, casual gamer. I'm pretty sure that today's ADHD-afflicted Wiimote-wielding generation of gamers wouldn't even get through the beginning base-building portion before tossing this game into the 'do-not-play' pile.


this.

[Graham Mitchell]

Now that I think of it, quite a few atari 2600 games are way more complex than they appear on the surface. Several games by activision are essentially unplayable unless you have the manual. Private eye, space shuttle challenge, and even dolphin will leave you stumped if you don't read up on them. I don't think I ever got the space shuttle to even take off in space shuttle challenge. There's also an f-16 tomcat sim for the atari 2600 that's just impossible. I crash every time I try to take off.

[NoahsMyBro]

I second everything Graham said, with the only difference being that I was consistently able to take off in Space Shuttle, but never landed successfully.

Also, I"m not sure this would fit the OP's parameters, but maybe the original Star Raiders on the Atari 8-bits?

Oh, and add another fan of Genesis Starflight here.

[fahlim003]

I'm going to say M.U.L.E., as I never could get into it and it's quite old.

Starflight (on Genesis), while complicated, looks perhaps more intuitive. Also, the X-Com games are also pretty hard to stick to.

[nickerous]

I always thought Ninja Gaiden 2 on the NES was ahead of its time. The wind level and lightning level really stands out.

[Pk116]

Complicated classic games for me were Trade Wars, Planets and Solar Realms Elite I think, old BBS door games that were all text. You had to manage resources, fight enemy ships, trade different goods and explore other planets. I never even figured out how to play them. There was no manual and they were extremely complex.

X-Com (turn-based tactical) and Masters of Orion (turn-based strategy) came out later and they were still pretty complex, but nothing like the three above.

For games not in space:
Simcity 2000 (never knew what to do and my city always failed)
Civilization II(this is a little easier to understand than Simcity)
Populous for the SNES (never knew what to do and returned it early when I rented it)

Also in real time Age of Empires II is the most complex I've played.

Oh, and don't forget flight simulators. Microsoft Flight Simulator all the way!
Taking off.....
bzzzzzz......
crash!!!

[kaedesdisciple]

Infiltrator for the NES. Back then I had no idea how to fly the chopper, today I still have no idea how to fly the chopper.

[jcalder8]

Utopia for the Intellivision. As the first sim game and first God game, it's definitely ahead of its time, and its definitely not intuitive like later games in both genres.
This was the first game that popped into my head. I was never able to figure out what to do.

[jb143]

Raiders of the Lost Ark for Atari 2600 was the first thing I though of. Certainly requires the manual, or a least a map, to play. That, and it uses both controllers due to needing more buttons.

[j_factor]

Shadowrun for Genesis was pretty complex for its day.

[Graham Mitchell]

Another one I thought of was the nes version of indiana jones and the temple of doom. Its very complex. The essential items you must have to complete the game are all hidden, and you must have them all by the time you reach the last level or you're screwed. The mechanics of the game itself are somewhat unusual, and most of the enemies just beeline for you, causing you to fall to your death often. People tend to complain about this game a lot, and its considered an awful game by most people. I, on the other hand, think its actually a very good game, just very challenging. I assume that the people who talk a lot of shit about it simply devote enough time to it to figure it out. The same goes for deadly towers and legacy of the wizard, two very well made games that just happen to be insanely difficult, to the point where it detracts from the fun a bit.

[Compute]

Fortune Builder for Colecovision. Years before Sim City and Railroad Tycoon. Also notable for its 2-player-same-map competition, I was totally blown away the first time I plugged this in.

Speaking of text-based, my first PC had a 'flight sim' in BASIC that was pretty complex. Whoever made this game went all out and had a setting for damn near every control in a jet fighter, and you had to use all of it. No simple mode there. Unfortunately I broke the game in the middle of a conditional in some thousands of lines of spaghetti code, and it never worked again :(

[geneshifter]

Elite for the C64. Not sure if the NES version is as complicated.

I missed this game somehow but a friend of mine from England got me on this and it is great! I'm playing it on a modded xbox using the vicex emulator (keyboard using a USB to XBOX adapter) on a 37in TV. It's a great way to experience these space flying games.

[shinobimusashi]

i dont know if its just me but im having a real hard time learning how to play herzog zwei on the genesis im just not getting it im definitely interested in the style of gameplay but i cant for the life of me figure out how to play it

i second shadow run on the genny i think its pretty much worthless without the instruction booklet

[staxx]

Civilization
Sim City
Deuteros (Amiga)
Bards Tale (all versions)
Paradroid (all versions)
Supremacy (Amiga, C64)
Aliens (C64, ZX Spectrum, Amstrad CPC I think)
Dan Dare (C64)
Boulder Dash (all versions)
Starglider II (Amiga, ST)
Warhead (Amiga)
Lords of the Rising Sun (Amiga, Atari ST)
to name a few

[Zoltor]

"The Guardian Legend" for the NES comes to mind. Talk about complicated, it has two sub genres for crying out loud(It's an Action/Aventure/Shooter. It also actually boarders to being a RPG, but I think It's closer to Action/Adventure then it is a RPG.

Every thing about that game is comlex, and all of which were implimented flawlessly(there are very few games ever made, that one can say that about a game).

You can lv up your base weapon, any of the ton of special weapons you find as well, you can lv up HP(very simular to the way It's done in the zelda games), and your special weapons can function in both the Action/Adventure areas of the game, as well as the shooter areas of the game(which may I add work differently depending what aspect you are in).

PS. Also while not as old as any of the consol/PC that would normally fit the bill of this topic, Ragnarok Online so needs to be mentioned(2002 MMO), It's the true meaning of customization at its peak, and RO started the trend which to this day hasn't been beaten, although some have come close(Atlantica, and Air Rivals are ver good in that respect as well)

Hm speaking of which, Atlantica is as far as I know the only MMO where a individual can control a party, not only that, but that actual individual controled parties can party up MMO style as well(yea It's crazy, It's a super unique system to say the least).

[buzz_n64]

Attack of the Mutant Penguins for the Jaguar.
Pitfall II for the Atari 5200

[Pk116]

Speaking of text-based, my first PC had a 'flight sim' in BASIC that was pretty complex. Whoever made this game went all out and had a setting for damn near every control in a jet fighter, and you had to use all of it. No simple mode there. Unfortunately I broke the game in the middle of a conditional in some thousands of lines of spaghetti code, and it never worked again :(
:eek 2: I think this game wins the thread...

[Compute]

:eek 2: I think this game wins the thread...

Yeah dude, text-based flight sim. I don't think I ever got much farther than takeoff because I forgot the commands, but it was pretty fun when you did remember them. Someone spent a LOT of time on that one. I don't remember the name of the game but the file was JETFIGHTER.BAS. Anyone heard of it?

[Arkhan]

X-Com (PSX, PC) would definitely qualify. There are many, many layers to this hardcore, early 90's tactical strategy/sim game and it is in no way streamlined for the average, casual gamer. I'm pretty sure that today's ADHD-afflicted Wiimote-wielding generation of gamers wouldn't even get through the beginning base-building portion before tossing this game into the 'do-not-play' pile.

To date, its still the most intricate strategy game I have ever touched.

Im going to also suggest Knights of Lore. For the time, that game had some frigging depth. Too much depth at times!

this ones a stretch, but sword of aragon for PC is pretty complicated for the time it was released.