Lack of Actual Auctioning on Ebay

[tubeway]

So, I've been rather out of the loop when it comes to buying stuff on ebay. I've been itchin' to play some random PC titles, and so I did did some digging, and while all of the titles I want are common and plentiful on ebay, nobody actually has auction listings for them. Or if they do, the auctions start at prices comparable to Buy it Now listings, which are also comparable to the prices on Amazon. Which are like $7 or so plus shipping for bargain bin titles often found at discount stores and thrift stores.

I then checked out games for a bunch of other platforms and ran into the same situation.

I remember the days of being able to hit ebay and find bargains, but it seems like sellers are adamant about trying to get as much as possible without taking any risk nowadays.

Has ebay reached some kind of critical mass where too many people are sniping, hunting and searching to find deals anymore? Are listings becoming too expensive for sellers to want to take chances? Am I better off doing all of my buying in-person and on forums?

I'd like to hear your guys thoughts.

[unwinddesign]

The problem with older, more obscure games (and even just old games) is that there aren't enough potential bidders (usually) at one time to generate the amount of interest to value the item semi-reasonably.

This means that, if the seller puts up games like Worms Armageddon, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver etc. for Dreamcast, they could get $1 - $2, or -- horrors of horrors -- $.01 (in Jojo's case it might be about $8 - $15. Still a slap in the face when it's worth $25 - $30).

The downside potential is much greater on lower market stuff. Even games like Super Mario 64 aren't guaranteed to hit their usual market value of $12 - $14 in an auction; it could go for like $6.50. I've seen copies of Shenmue -- a game I can sell for $12 - $17 -- go for .99.

That's why most of the auctions you see aren't businesses, but people clearing out their old stuff. As a reseller (now former), I would always add up whatever the minimum worth of the game was in a lot I was targeting to buy. I would then set my auction prices/ buy it nows accordingly, at base levels so that I would, if everyone only bid at my lowest price (and didn't use any buy-it nows), I'd make like $5 or $10. For example, if someone showed up with a package of a Dreamcast and these games for .99 cent bid and $10 shipping:

System - $20
2 VMUs- $6
2 Light Guns - $40
Berzerk - $13
Shenmue - $10
Grandia 2 - $12
NBA 2K - $0
NFL BLitz 2001 - $0
Marvel vs. Capcom - $20
Alone in the Dark - $5
Ecco the Dolphin - $5

=$131. So I'd probably put a top bid of $130 + $10 shipping; my estimates are rough, but depending on the market/combos with other lots, I could make 10% or so off it. Now say I list those games up for auctions instead of buy it nows. Buy it nows aren't guaranteed, but I get free relistings, and peace of mind. 14 days, essentially to sell my stuff. So I know what I'm gonna get going in, and I know that I'm not losing money. But, hypothetically, I'm feeling lucky, and I list them as auctions. They close at:

Dreamcast - $13
2 VMUs - .99 each
2 Light guns - $32.51
Berzerk - $6.78
Shenmue - $4.54
NBA 2K - 0.53
NFL Blitz - $1.04
Marvel vs. Capcom - $25.01
Alone in the Dark - $5.52
Ecco the Dolphin - $2.30

= about $93. If I bought that for $140, that's a big loss and I ain't sticking around much longer!

I know people on here tend to think game resellers are evil and jack up the prices, but they're dead wrong on that (not directed at you OP, just a general statement). If they didn't split up those lots they found at thriftstores/eBay etc. There would be less individual copies of games out there on eBay for old-school players. It would just be people dusting stuff out of their attic who had time and wanted to spend the effort to actually list each of their games 1 by 1. And, I can guarantee you, prices would go up on some games because of it. There's always a copy of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Bangai-O etc. on eBay, and it's because of the resellers. That's a good thing. Also, by listing crappy, rare games at cheap prices (Midway's Arcade Hits Vol. 2) it keeps collectors/interested parties from having to spend $80 - $90 on a lot of games just to snag the one they want.

[/tangent]

So yes, in summation, it's too risky to list old games (I think any video game item, personally, but more do it in the old-school sector) in auction format. Too much price oscillation.

[DreamTR]

This is ebay's doing. They decided to change this stuff to make it geared towards Amazon and not an auction site. Started a few years ago. Tried to get sellers (mass market ones) to use Fixed Price because they get higher fees.

[mobiusclimber]

There's a lot of reasons for it, and one of them is certainly that Ebay has been pushing in that direction, but the bigger problem is definitely that Ebay is in the shitter as it were. It used to be possible to list auctions with a low starting bid and get a decent price, but that hasn't been true for over a year now (with some obvious exceptions, of course).

But that also means that when you DO find a low starting bid auction, you should watch and snipe it. Be part of the problem! :D

[ryborg]

This is ebay's doing. They decided to change this stuff to make it geared towards Amazon and not an auction site. Started a few years ago. Tried to get sellers (mass market ones) to use Fixed Price because they get higher fees.

Absolutely this. There is really no reason to EVER use auctions, unless you have a hot, new product that is guaranteed to sell for a certain amount. For example, I have a sealed New Super Mario Bros for Wii to sell (received two of them this Christmas, no receipts) and I know I can get no less than $50 for it, so I'll start it at a penny and watch it go.

But for anything even remotely old, it's to the seller's advantage to use BIN for every product. Ebay has lowered the insertion fees on this and created the Best Offer feature and the monthly listing time. This means either you get the price you want, or you're out no more than 35 cents. Yes, the final value fees are high, but at that point, you've received a price you want, so you should take into consideration the fees when setting your price or accepting an offer.

I used to have 30-70 auctions going at any given moment. Now I have around 120-200 "permanent" listings up (until the item sells) and I am never disappointed with how much I sell something for. I also like how you can post multiple quantities of the same item and it still costs $.35.

Not to mention the fact that the economy is garbage and people are slowly becoming smarter with their money. More people are unloading collectibles than buying.

[Ed Oscuro]

I remember the days of being able to hit ebay and find bargains, but it seems like sellers are adamant about trying to get as much as possible without taking any risk nowadays.
Scandalous that they don't let you score bargains on their back. Almost as bad as thrift stores charging a few dollars per game.

It may not have ever come out to anything, but I remember an eBay Town Hall email mentioning regulations on auctioneering being pondered by a state legislature somewhere. I imagine it got changed, but it points towards there potentially being extra legal issues surrounding auctions as opposed to the classic fixed price listing.

The last time I listed an auction on eBay, I got burned by stupid buyers (both ways - first they bid far too high on an item, and I decided to jump in - then they forgot to bid and ask me later if I can sell it to them under the counter. Was happy at the end because I got the money I needed, though).


Absolutely this. There is really no reason to EVER use auctions, unless you have a hot, new product that is guaranteed to sell for a certain amount. [...]

But for anything even remotely old, it's to the seller's advantage to use BIN for every product.
I was going to disagree but then I re-read the bit I wrote just above. I've seen too many "desirable" games go for less than would have been expected (sometimes bringing prices in line with just what is fair, other times leading to real bargains and one doubtlessly pissed seller).

[swlovinist]

*Caution Long Rant and agree with many above statements*

As using ebay for buying and selling my extras(10 years), I have seen many changes that have not been in the favor of the seller. I have seen fees skyrocket without seeing really any added bonus. I feel that I am a lucky one, a person who does not have to live on selling on ebay. For me, it is a way to buy and sell to add to my collection. With that being said, it just seems now there are alot more items that start at very high prices. For the most part, in the past have tried to have my items start at low starting bids or even $1.00, but for the last year I have been burned too many times with low demands for my auctions. I cant even imagine how I would feel if my bills being paid were dependent on ebay. Right now it is a terrible place for people to sell. All the risk and fees without a guarentee of even braking even. With the prices of many games rising in local markets and the profit margin for folks to just break even is disappearing.

On the other side, I feel that ebay is probably not the best place for buying for many new collectors(Craigslist for the win :)) If I was an new collector and wanted to try to add some games to my collection, I would probably not go to ebay unless I HAD TO. I can see it from both a buyer and a seller that ebay is not making alot of sense for many folks, and it turning out to be loose loose for all. I will keep buying and selling on ebay, but my expectations of what I make have diminished greatly. In the end I am happy with just breaking even and a little more for selling, with adding an occasional product to my collection when one comes up reasonably. Reasonable for both the buyer and seller on ebay is getting more and more difficult.

[udisi]

well, Yes ebay have pushed sellers towards the fixed price auctions, but also I think prices have just come down.

Ebay used to be a place where you as an individual could do just as good as a retail brick an mortar store on prices. ebay was like an ATM, easy money. Most classic games have come down in price. Yeah it you let a random PS1 game of DC game go to auction it's not gonna bring a retail type price of $12-$14 dollars because really the demand to bring $12-14 dollars isn't there. Maybe if you own a store in some town you can get that, but on the open market of ebay, you're gonna get $7. That's the price.

The thing that changed it that there used to be a market there to get $12-$14, but it's dried up. People used to deny it when it was moving the other way too. "like that game is worth $10, not the $30 that stupid people on ebay are paying" That wasn't true either. if there's a market for $30, it's worth $30. If the market only sustains $7, than the thing is worth $7.

The thing that makes those facts suck right now is that ebay has raises their % cut. Not only are sellers having to deal with the price of items falling and being cheaper, but they have to pay a higher% to ebay. People have responded with the basic retail model. They have pushed their "overhead" in the form of fees into the price of their products. The have also gone with the ask for the world price and come down if you want to move it strategy.

It may be only a $7 game on the open market, but any local store is gonna ask $25 for it. So they all list it BIN for $25 on ebay and "hope for a buyer" long as everyone has BIN's and $25 price tags, they sell eventually because they never see an open auction. It's doesn't happen with current gen stuff as much because the market can't be cornered yet.

You might hit 10 local stores looking for a 360 game you want and the cheapest price you find is $40.00, but on ebay that game may be had for $25. Wait a month and retail will be $30 on ebay it'll be $10. There's so many copies and retail pricing has fallen so quick that people have to move these games before they devalue. Likewise, you don't see the same copy re listed with a $40 BIN for 6 months. They let these go to auction just to move them fast.

[DreamTR]

well, Yes ebay have pushed sellers towards the fixed price auctions, but also I think prices have just come down.

Ebay used to be a place where you as an individual could do just as good as a retail brick an mortar store on prices. ebay was like an ATM, easy money. Most classic games have come down in price. Yeah it you let a random PS1 game of DC game go to auction it's not gonna bring a retail type price of $12-$14 dollars because really the demand to bring $12-14 dollars isn't there. Maybe if you own a store in some town you can get that, but on the open market of ebay, you're gonna get $7. That's the price.

The thing that changed it that there used to be a market there to get $12-$14, but it's dried up. People used to deny it when it was moving the other way too. "like that game is worth $10, not the $30 that stupid people on ebay are paying" That wasn't true either. if there's a market for $30, it's worth $30. If the market only sustains $7, than the thing is worth $7.

The thing that makes those facts suck right now is that ebay has raises their % cut. Not only are sellers having to deal with the price of items falling and being cheaper, but they have to pay a higher% to ebay. People have responded with the basic retail model. They have pushed their "overhead" in the form of fees into the price of their products. The have also gone with the ask for the world price and come down if you want to move it strategy.

It may be only a $7 game on the open market, but any local store is gonna ask $25 for it. So they all list it BIN for $25 on ebay and "hope for a buyer" long as everyone has BIN's and $25 price tags, they sell eventually because they never see an open auction. It's doesn't happen with current gen stuff as much because the market can't be cornered yet.

You might hit 10 local stores looking for a 360 game you want and the cheapest price you find is $40.00, but on ebay that game may be had for $25. Wait a month and retail will be $30 on ebay it'll be $10. There's so many copies and retail pricing has fallen so quick that people have to move these games before they devalue. Likewise, you don't see the same copy re listed with a $40 BIN for 6 months. They let these go to auction just to move them fast.

Even better is the same buyer issue making sellers not want to use eBay as much. The no negative feedback issue does not weed out the bad buyers and I can say 12% of the time listings are with non-paying bidders on time sensitive stuff (new releases) and/or buyers that try and get refunds out of you with threats of negative feedback if you don't abide...

My problem is I don't care if eBay wants to be like Amazon. That's great. BE like Amazon then. They require immediate credit card payment. That would stop a LOT of the problems for sellers that have non paying bidders. I can live with open auctions because if you BUY cheap you can still sell on open auctions and make some cash.

[Ed Oscuro]

But on the other hand, eBay has shot itself in the foot with its "immediate payment" restriction sellers can put on listings. This probably isn't a common scenario, but consider this: A buyer has a PayPal account linked to a bank account. They can start a payment immediately. Most of the time this is a seamless transaction. But with PayPal being "funny money," they assume you don't have the balance in the bank account for "instant payments."

This saves the seller the four to five business day transaction processing wait for people with PP accounts linked to their bank account (in addition to the very real benefit of driving out NPBs), but it drives away legitimate bidders just because they keep their dollars in their bank account and leaves others inconvenienced, especially if an item changes or is taken in the time a person spends converting money in their bank account to PayPal's Monopoly Money.

Of course, there's no way PayPal is going to change, since they want as much money poured into PP as they can. And I understand there's a limitation with the way they do things. Recently, though, it seems like it's set up to be more useful for laundering than for real purchases (especially with everybody demanding you send them "gift" payments). I'm sure there would be a change if PayPal turned into a real bank, but that would destroy the PP business model, so I guess it's just another thing to live with for the moment.

[Fuyukaze]

It's funny reading this as I'd recently seen a number of great and hard to find games go for dirt cheap. Dont see Romance of the Three Kingdoms III on the Genesis that often but one auction ended at $5 and $4 shiping. Also saw a CIB L'Emperor for PC fetch $5 on one bid. Found a copy of Izuna for the DS at $20, and I think the point's been made. Maybe your looking for the wrong stuff, using the wrong searches, or just looking at the wrong time. If I can find a game like Tenshi no Shippo CIB for less then $40 shipped, it's realy just a matter of time.

[udisi]

oh, yeah you can still find deals, IF, things go to auction. I don't browse as much as I used to because I'm just gonna find 20 overpriced BIN's. I end up missing the few cheap auctions because I just don't bother to look as much as I used too. I wonder how many other people are like me. Maybe that's another reason straight auctions bring lower prices. People just don't bother browsing as much.

[ryborg]

But on the other hand, eBay has shot itself in the foot with its "immediate payment" restriction sellers can put on listings.

I don't know about anyone else, but my sales went WAAAY down when I started requiring Immediate Payment. You lose all casual purchases from those people who live paycheck to paycheck. You know, those people who buy an item on Sunday and say they'll pay on Friday because that's when their paycheck clears.

I dropped Immediate Payment and my sales went up again. I'd rather deal with the occasional non-paying bidder (which honestly should lead to instant suspension) and have better sales than have everyone pay but sales be down.


Recently, though, it seems like it's set up to be more useful for laundering than for real purchases (especially with everybody demanding you send them "gift" payments). Where exactly is this happening? I've heard this several times on this board and it's something I've never run into anywhere, which is strange since I do a lot of buying on a large number of sites and message boards.

[tubeway]

Ha! Looks like ebay is going to make it free to list items auction style starting march 10th. It's free for the first 100 items, and only covers the listing fee, but it's still kind of nice.

[Vroomfunkel]

Of course, the other reason I never do game auctions starting at 0.99 like I used to is that ebay have forced in 'free postage' for all game auctions (on ebay UK at least).

I didn't mind punting up junk at 0.99 start and who cares what it finishes for - because at least I'd get *something* if it sold. Now, if I start a game at 0.99 and it gets one bid, I *lose* money, because it's a minimum of £1.90 to post, before I even start counting eBay fees.

I too preferred the old eBay. But it's gone.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Ha! Looks like ebay is going to make it free to list items auction style starting march 10th. It's free for the first 100 items, and only covers the listing fee, but it's still kind of nice.

And they're raising the final value fees.

Again.

[Bojay1997]

And they're raising the final value fees.

Again.

Yes, as several other sites have pointed out, this is a deceptive change which makes you think you're going to save money when you aren't. Final value fees are now 9% plus at least another 3% for Paypal which means 12% of your sales are going to Ebay. The few pennies they are cutting from the listing fees and insertion fees don't even come close to how much more they are going to make with higher final value fees.

[tubeway]

I had no idea. Thanks for the information, guys.

Geez. Amazon is really starting to look more appealing.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I had no idea. Thanks for the information, guys.

Geez. Amazon is really starting to look more appealing.

Ditto. Thank $deity I'm finally going to open a bank account in the US of A again. Time to move my business there.

[wrldstrman]

The problem with older, more obscure games (and even just old games) is that there aren't enough potential bidders (usually) at one time to generate the amount of interest to value the item semi-reasonably.

This means that, if the seller puts up games like Worms Armageddon, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver etc. for Dreamcast, they could get $1 - $2, or -- horrors of horrors -- $.01 (in Jojo's case it might be about $8 - $15. Still a slap in the face when it's worth $25 - $30).

The downside potential is much greater on lower market stuff. Even games like Super Mario 64 aren't guaranteed to hit their usual market value of $12 - $14 in an auction; it could go for like $6.50. I've seen copies of Shenmue -- a game I can sell for $12 - $17 -- go for .99.

That's why most of the auctions you see aren't businesses, but people clearing out their old stuff. As a reseller (now former), I would always add up whatever the minimum worth of the game was in a lot I was targeting to buy. I would then set my auction prices/ buy it nows accordingly, at base levels so that I would, if everyone only bid at my lowest price (and didn't use any buy-it nows), I'd make like $5 or $10. For example, if someone showed up with a package of a Dreamcast and these games for .99 cent bid and $10 shipping:

System - $20
2 VMUs- $6
2 Light Guns - $40
Berzerk - $13
Shenmue - $10
Grandia 2 - $12
NBA 2K - $0
NFL BLitz 2001 - $0
Marvel vs. Capcom - $20
Alone in the Dark - $5
Ecco the Dolphin - $5

=$131. So I'd probably put a top bid of $130 + $10 shipping; my estimates are rough, but depending on the market/combos with other lots, I could make 10% or so off it. Now say I list those games up for auctions instead of buy it nows. Buy it nows aren't guaranteed, but I get free relistings, and peace of mind. 14 days, essentially to sell my stuff. So I know what I'm gonna get going in, and I know that I'm not losing money. But, hypothetically, I'm feeling lucky, and I list them as auctions. They close at:

Dreamcast - $13
2 VMUs - .99 each
2 Light guns - $32.51
Berzerk - $6.78
Shenmue - $4.54
NBA 2K - 0.53
NFL Blitz - $1.04
Marvel vs. Capcom - $25.01
Alone in the Dark - $5.52
Ecco the Dolphin - $2.30

= about $93. If I bought that for $140, that's a big loss and I ain't sticking around much longer!

I know people on here tend to think game resellers are evil and jack up the prices, but they're dead wrong on that (not directed at you OP, just a general statement). If they didn't split up those lots they found at thriftstores/eBay etc. There would be less individual copies of games out there on eBay for old-school players. It would just be people dusting stuff out of their attic who had time and wanted to spend the effort to actually list each of their games 1 by 1. And, I can guarantee you, prices would go up on some games because of it. There's always a copy of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Bangai-O etc. on eBay, and it's because of the resellers. That's a good thing. Also, by listing crappy, rare games at cheap prices (Midway's Arcade Hits Vol. 2) it keeps collectors/interested parties from having to spend $80 - $90 on a lot of games just to snag the one they want.

[/tangent]

So yes, in summation, it's too risky to list old games (I think any video game item, personally, but more do it in the old-school sector) in auction format. Too much price oscillation.

I kind of disagree who is this person who says this game is worth this. Yes if its your game you can ask what ever you want for it. But just because you think a game is worth a certian price doest mean it is. I agree Ebay is becoming more of a platform for online stores than a auction place. I have been able to find most all the games I have for 25 percent of what resellers want for games, good example is lufia the average price from stores is 75 to 100 dollars cib. i won mine for 20.00 on a 5 day auction. Bronkie and Chavez 2 both show up in stores for 60 or more cib. I got both for 20.00 each on a auction. So if these games are 75 dollars why did I win them for 20.00. probally because they are not worth 60 dollars.

I like collecting more than anyone but I also know anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I can try and sell my home for a million dollars, doesnt mean im getting a million dollars for it, I think prices should be based off what fair open auctions end at on average but the majority of people selling on ebayare not really interested in the hobby of collecting video gaming stuff but on making money. So if Im a seller on ebay, I love coming to the gaming sites and seeing people say this game is worth this much money, more money in my pocket.

[Cornelius]

^ for BIN and the games that are worth a bit more you are mostly right. But it is a little different story with something like, say SMB3. If you do a search, you can probably find one that went at auction for less than $5, and one that also went at auction, but for $15+. So what it is worth? If I'm the seller I'm going to protect myself some and start it at 9.99 or so.

[darkslime]

I only do BIN so I don't have to deal with as many NPBs.

[eday_2010]

I was searching eBay the other day because I have a bunch of Super NES and N64 games (and a console ) I want to sell, and I wanted to see what some of the games were going for. I checked out about 4 games, and none fo them had auctions. They were all fixed prices. Now, because of that, if I list a game as an auction, will people flock to it since it's the only actual auction?

I have some games that are worth a decent amount (or at least were when I checked last summer), so I don't want to risk getting a dollar for them. I did quite well last spring when I sold a pile of Master System/Genesis/Sega CD/32X games, all auctions. But for some reason I have a feeling it won't go as well this time.

I have thought about gamegavel, but the place looks so barren, I might not do any better there. Or I can sell everything in one lot and be done with it. I wish eBay was the way it used to be.

[darkslime]

^Or you could just do BIN. Or auction but start it at the price you want...

[unwinddesign]

I kind of disagree who is this person who says this game is worth this. Yes if its your game you can ask what ever you want for it. But just because you think a game is worth a certian price doest mean it is. I agree Ebay is becoming more of a platform for online stores than a auction place. I have been able to find most all the games I have for 25 percent of what resellers want for games, good example is lufia the average price from stores is 75 to 100 dollars cib. i won mine for 20.00 on a 5 day auction. Bronkie and Chavez 2 both show up in stores for 60 or more cib. I got both for 20.00 each on a auction. So if these games are 75 dollars why did I win them for 20.00. probally because they are not worth 60 dollars.

I like collecting more than anyone but I also know anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I can try and sell my home for a million dollars, doesnt mean im getting a million dollars for it, I think prices should be based off what fair open auctions end at on average but the majority of people selling on ebayare not really interested in the hobby of collecting video gaming stuff but on making money. So if Im a seller on ebay, I love coming to the gaming sites and seeing people say this game is worth this much money, more money in my pocket.

The thesis of my previous post is that, essentially, games are worth more at BIN than they are at auction. People are willing to pay more to get it instantly (usually) than they are bidding. There's no true way to value "what it's worth." Prices are somewhat arbitrary in all markets, and especially so in game markets where you can only find them on eBay or thrift stores. Prices will shoot up or down without much warning. The price is simply what is reasonable for both the buyer and seller. By listing at auction, you are essentially saying that any price is ok and placing control in the hands of the buyers. Perhaps good when lots of people want your items, but bad when your item has low demand and views. [/semi-off topic]

I was simply answering the OP's question about the lack of actual auctioning. Yes, there's a lack of auctioning, and for the reasons you suggested: resellers/savvy sellers know that Lufia or Chavez 2 is worth $60 or $70. Why list it at .99 cents and potentially let it go for $20, as you won it for? Makes no sense, something which more and more people on eBay are realizing.