What is the most desirable prototype item for the Atari 2600

[wberdan]

I'm just curious what everyones opinion is on this question...
It doesn't have to be a game, it can be anything.
Here is my opinion ( I broke it down into game and hardware catagories)-

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Game- SwordQuest: Airworld .... such a great background story on it- definetely adds a lot to the coolness factor! Who would think that Atari would completely abandon the contest, and never even finish the final chapter? Even if the series wasn't that fun, you have to respect the background.

Hardware- Mindlink controller .... just too cool! using your facial movements to contol games? it doesnt get much bizarre than that!
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What would be the item(s) you would want above all, if you had unlimited money and resources? (Keep in mind I'm trying to keep this thread specific to the Atari 2600)

willie

[ventrra]

I'm not certain that it really qualifies, but how about the contest prizes from the SwordQuest contest?

If they don't qualify, I'd have to say: the Mindlink stuff.

[NE146]

I'd be happy just to try out Pleadies.. :(

[CPUWIZ]

Probably one that nobody knows about. :D

[rbudrick]

I'd have to say the Airworld Proto and it's prizes. Somebody beat me to it, too! , heh heh

The PGP-1 is up there too. Who on earth besides Al Beckiel (sp?)owns one of these anyway?

Cloak and Dagger for 5200?


-Rob

[Mayhem]

Hard to say... the one you just won Willie?! :P

[ashbourn]

I would be happy with anyone.

[CX2K]

The PGP-1 is up there too. Who on earth besides Al Beckiel (sp?)owns one of these anyway?

I'm not sure but I think Al sold his.

The grail for me would be just to find out what happened to the rest of the Swordquest prizes...

Or to find 5200 Crystal Castles so I could torture Matt Reichert. :)

John

[rbudrick]

Al might have sold the PGP-1!

That would mean that the person who now owns it is not bound by the contract not to duplicate, as Al was....hmmmm.....

Al, if you are reading this, do tell! :-)

(I actually have a post deicated to this, but no replies yet, heh heh.)

--Rob

[Tempest]

Yes Al did sell his PGP-1, I hit him up about it a long time ago. :D

As for the ultimate prototype finds:

2600: SQ: Airworld or Zookeeper
5200: Crystal Castles or Cloak & Dagger
7800: Rescue on Fractalus or Electrocop

Tempest

[slapdash]

As far as 2600 goes, I'm still curious about Gamma Attack...

[ubersaurus]

I second Pleadies. I want to try out that game as soon as I heard abotu the proto, but, no dump.

[Captain Wrong]

I would love to have the Key Games 2600. The colors on that thing are great! After I saw that, I was always dissapointed it nefver came to be.

[moycon]

What with the new movie coming out.... I'd like to see Parker Brothers The Hulk.

Who knows... Remember what surfaced when the Lord Of The Rings movie was released!!! :o

[Phantomofwdbk]

Gamma Attack found

[slapdash]

Welcome to Digital Press!

And yeah, that's been one of my grails, since I got the impression that I was about the only person who ever noticed the ad mentioning that game.

Harem was another holy grail, though that was much better known, and that finally turned up.

Man, I've gotta go through my lists and see what other games I can make show up just by wanting them. :-)

[Sniderman]

Gamma Attack found

Awesome! Please make sure to dump it and have it archived someplace safe. I'm sure Matt (Tempest) could help you out and he probably may have some background info on it.

Helluva find. But would this count as a "proto" when it appears to be a regular release - even if it *is* super-uber-rare?

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Helluva find. But would this count as a "proto" when it appears to be a regular release - even if it *is* super-uber-rare?

It's unclear if the game was actually released or not. The cartridge he found only has a small label with the name of the company on it. Since this is the only cartridge known to exist (so far), we're not sure if the game was sold that way, or if it's a proto.

[vintagegamecrazy]

It'd be great to know if it was an actual release or not. Look at Fast Food for Atari 8 bit, it has a generic label and it has a box and seems to be released. This game can be the same way, it would be a heck of a find if it's actually a released game!

[vintagegamecrazy]

Here's another from Multivision that'd be interesting to see unearthed.

Battle of the Sexes (http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?MENU=2&VERSION_ID=20354)

[stonic]

Here's another from Multivision that'd be interesting to see unearthed.

Battle of the Sexes (http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?MENU=2&VERSION_ID=20354)

The information came from here, they just didn't credit us for it:

http://www.digitpress.com/library/interviews/interview_michael_case.html
http://www.digitpress.com/faq/vcsalt/cc_vcsalt.htm#harem

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Cloak and Dagger for 5200?

-Rob

Yeah ... but you'd have to deal with Dabney Coleman hanging around pretending to be your "imaginary friend" if you ever got your hands on that one.

And I for one have ENOUGH problems with Dabney Coleman just calling me wanting to "hang out" ... much less helping me protect a top secret file hidden in a 5200 game from terrorist spies.

[slapdash]

I hear Bouncing Baby Monkeys just showed up on eBay (then got yanked)... How many of these have shown up before?

[PingvinBlueJeans]

The information came from here, they just didn't credit us for it:

http://www.digitpress.com/library/interviews/interview_michael_case.html
http://www.digitpress.com/faq/vcsalt/cc_vcsalt.htm#harem
Actually, that info came from me...and was up long before similar info appeared in the DP Guide.


I hear Bouncing Baby Monkeys just showed up on eBay (then got yanked)... How many of these have shown up before?
"Just"? I assume you mean the one that showed up about six months ago (owned by a former Telesys employee)? If so, that's the only copy known to exist. If not, I didn't see the one you're referring to.

[slapdash]

Yeah, that's probably the same one; "just" in the sense that I just found out about it. I don't have nearly as much net/web-time as I used to. :-/

Did anyone here end up with it?

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Did anyone here end up with it?
Not that I'm aware of.

[stonic]

Actually, that info came from me...and was up long before similar info appeared in the DP Guide..


Actually, the first paragraph of Atarimania's description came verbatim from an October 1983 article in Videogaming Illustrated magazine:

www.digitpress.com/library/multivision_article.zip

(page 3, paragraphs 7-8)


The game's existence was confirmed with my interview with the programmer, Michael Case, who also provided the artwork for it and confirmed the game was completed:

http://www.digitpress.com/library/interviews/interview_michael_case.html


What information from Atarirmania's entry are you claiming is yours?

[atarimuseum]

I would like to see if perhaps any of the Atari Graduate titles may have been written. I know Basic was done, but there was quite an extensive list of games for the Graduate computer add-on and it had a fairly agressive release date, so I wonder if any of those games/apps were written.



Curt

[Tempest]

I would like to see if perhaps any of the Atari Graduate titles may have been written. I know Basic was done, but there was quite an extensive list of games for the Graduate computer add-on and it had a fairly agressive release date, so I wonder if any of those games/apps were written.


Curt

Well we have an eye witness account of Robotron playing at one of the CES shows (noted as being one of the more flickery games ever). Not sure if it was on an actual Graduate or not though, but I'm pretty sure it was one of the planned titles.

Tempest

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Actually, the first paragraph of Atarimania's description came verbatim from an October 1983 article in Videogaming Illustrated magazine:

www.digitpress.com/library/multivision_article.zip

(page 3, paragraphs 7-8)


The game's existence was confirmed with my interview with the programmer, Michael Case, who also provided the artwork for it and confirmed the game was completed:

http://www.digitpress.com/library/interviews/interview_michael_case.html


What information from Atarirmania's entry are you claiming is yours?
The complete info was copied almost verbatim from the Rumor Mill section of atariprotos.com (although that particular entry was written by me, not Tempest)...

http://www.atariprotos.com/rumormill/2600/2600rumor.htm#B

As you know, I'm well aware of where the quotes from Eugene Finkei came from, since I have that particular article and sent you a PM about it back about six months ago (shortly after your interview with Michael Case was published...I asked you if you had asked Michael about 'Heartbreak'). You never answered my question but you obviously read my message, because about a week later, you obtained a copy of said article and subsequently added that info to the DP Guide...

http://www.digitpress.com/DP/cmf/game.cmf?gameid=24622
http://www.digitpress.com/DP/cmf/game.cmf?gameid=24289

That information had not previously been there.

As you can see, I was (obviously) not the original source of the information and quotes in the entry on atariprotos.com, so I properly sourced that info (as I always do). But it was my sourced work that was lifted/paraphrased by Atarimania (and this is not the first time). So yeah, the information came from me. My work was sourced and I have no control over what other people do with it. Although, the entry on Atarimania was condensed so as to avoid sourcing. It contains no direct quotes from your interview...simply a passing reference to the fact that the programmer confirmed that the game was finished. So no offense, but I don't really see that you have much to complain about.

Now, while we're on the subject of credits...would you like me to point all of the instances in the DP Guide where you've lifted info without sourcing it? I can find at least a dozen or so without even trying, but I really don't think we need to go down that road.

[stonic]

Tell me you didn’t spend 3 weeks coming up with that reply…



The complete info was copied almost verbatim from the Rumor Mill section of atariprotos.com (although that particular entry was written by me, not Tempest)...

http://www.atariprotos.com/rumormill/2600/2600rumor.htm#B

As you know, I'm well aware of where the quotes from Eugene Finkei came from, since I have that particular article and sent you a PM about it back about six months ago (shortly after your interview with Michael Case was published...I asked you if you had asked Michael about 'Heartbreak'). You never answered my question but you obviously read my message, because about a week later, you obtained a copy of said article and subsequently added that info to the DP Guide...

http://www.digitpress.com/DP/cmf/game.cmf?gameid=24622
http://www.digitpress.com/DP/cmf/game.cmf?gameid=24289

That information had not previously been there.

Well, why wouldn’t I add the information? That’s sorta my “job” here, ya know. But, as usual, you seem to be presuming some facts. The online guide was updated after my interview with Case (I don’t know when specifically since I don’t handle that – Joe does), but it doesn’t get updated every time I find new info. Fact is, since I took over maintaining the VCS section, the online version has only been updated once or twice (again, ask Joe).

In regards to the Multivision article, I asked Leonard Herman about it and he sent me a copy, which is the file I linked to in an earlier post. Obviously Len was aware it long before you or anyone else, since some of the Multivision games (such as Harem and Battle of the Sexes) are listed in his books, ‘ABC to the VCS’. I didn’t reply to you about Heartbreak b/c there was nothing to reply about. Case doesn't have it, and we both tried (and failed) to find Finkei.

Again I ask, what exactly do you want credit for? For telling me about an article that was written over 20 years ago by someone else, that Leonard already knew about? If I was going to credit anyone for it, it’d be the author of the article! Besides, do I need to point out that I’m already crediting the magazine+article in the entries you noted above?? If I write an article about a given book, and I credit said book as the source, do I also have to credit the library that I borrowed it from? I think not.



As you can see, I was (obviously) not the original source of the information and quotes in the entry on atariprotos.com, so I properly sourced that info (as I always do). But it was my sourced work that was lifted/paraphrased by Atarimania (and this is not the first time). So yeah, the information came from me...

.. and your information came from me, via Case.


My work was sourced and I have no control over what other people do with it. Although, the entry on Atarimania was condensed so as to avoid sourcing. It contains no direct quotes from your interview...simply a passing reference to the fact that the programmer confirmed that the game was finished.

So, direct quotes are "bad"; plagiarism is "good"?

To again quote Atarimania's entry for Battle of the Sexes:



This title was long thought not to have even been started, but the programmer recently confirmed that the game was actually completely finished.

Yeah, the programmer recently confirmed this, thanks to me. Here's an analogy for you. If someone steals my car, and someone else steals it from them, does the first thief have any legal claim to the car?

But if it's direct quotes you want, then look no further than their entry for Harem, because it's a complete copy&paste job from my interview. Unless you want to claim some of that info for yourself as well...


So no offense, but I don't really see that you have much to complain about.

Sure I do, because the facts that Harem exists and that Case confirmed Battle of the Sexes existed came from my interview with him, and nowhere else. Before then, they were both rumored titles as far as everyone was concerned. So I still have no idea what “source work” or information you’re referring to b/c other than that old article and my interview I don't see ANY information on either DP or Atarimania's entries that came from somewhere else. If you’re claiming that I borrowed information from either you or Atariprotos regarding either of those titles, then you’re mistaken. Atariprotos didn’t even have a page on Harem until after the rom was released (here), and they don’t have one for Battle of the Sexes, because no rom has surfaced. No offense, but I was completely unaware of your existence in this hobby until after my interview with Case came out, when I saw you on Atariage claiming that Case still owned the prototypes of his games (how or why you presumed this to be fact I don’t know, because nowhere in the interview is that either stated or inferred). Once I saw that you were also on DP, I PM’d you about it (Case doesn’t own them, and hasn’t for some time), and that stating such opinions as “facts” will only lead to people needlessly harassing Case (or whoever). Of course, nobody is stopping you from tracking down people like Case and interviewing them. As far as I know, I’m the only one consistently doing just that (I recall when that Red Sea Crossing game showed up, the person who found it asked people not to contact the programmer.. although that didn’t stop you, did it? Where's your interview?). But if you think I’m going to do the work for you, or share any contact info with you, so you can post the info and take credit for yourself, think again.



Now, while we're on the subject of credits...would you like me to point all of the instances in the DP Guide where you've lifted info without sourcing it? I can find at least a dozen or so without even trying, but I really don't think we need to go down that road.

Please do, and while you’re at it, point me to any copyrighted information you’ve published (books, articles, interviews, etc.) so that I can properly credit you. Because I’ve yet to see any information that you’ve stated as being truly ‘new’ or ‘original’. Pretty much all you've done up to this point is pick people's brains (and books..) for info and spit it back out. In fact, the one time I did ask you about a VCS programmer from Apollo that you had found, your reply was “A little bird told me”. Needless to say, I can’t exactly use information in the DPG that I can’t confirm (and the entry in the guide will reflect that).

Now, if you’re pointing to me specifically, I wasn’t involved with maintaining the VCS section in the Guide until after the last edition came out - that person was John Hardie. The VCS section in the next edition (as well as the next online update) will reflect the work I’ve done on it since taking it over. Now, did I go back and try to document all the information in it? No. The large majority of it came from old magazines and company literature (esp Len's collection), and I’m confident that between Len and myself, we can offer detailed sources for all of the information in the VCS section, if requested (not counting the rumor section). But I've been adding it whenever I can, so overall you'll see more sourced information in that section. If that's not good enough for you, oh well. It's a collecting guide, not a history book.

Now, in general, everyone in this hobby (Atariprotos, Atariage, Atarimania, Atarimuseum, DP, etc.) has used copyrighted material from someone else, whether it's printed material, manual scans, source code, roms, etc. If you had been around in the hobby for as long as I have (which you haven’t), you’d be aware of that. I'd love to see everyone giving credit where credit is due, and maybe someday that'll happen (and that will start when apologies are made by all). Until then, we can both spend weeks pointing out infringement instances for our respective "sides", because none of us are innocent in regards to that. So if you want to get into a pissing match over it, be my guest, but you’ll be doing it w/o me. I've wasted enough time in pointless arguments like this. But should you wish to continue, be sure to do a thorough investigation on how much information has been ‘borrowed’ between ALL of us, because I’d be curious to see the results of how much uncredited information people lifted from my interviews and Easter egg section alone. A good investigative reporter such as yourself wouldn’t want to be biased against one particular site, now would he?