It's been 5 years, and no ones talking 'next gen' yet.

[Trumpman]

One aspect that's interesting is the optical drive vs thumb drive debate. As technology progresses, portable drive have growing storage size, next to zero load times, and increasingly cheaper. On top of that, they're durable and can't stratch as easily as compact discs. With the "next gen" many years off, it's plausible thumb drive can overtake optical and may harkon the return of cartridges on consoles. What do you guys think?

Not a chance. Look at how much a USB drive costs at a store - I paid $30 for an 8GB one a few months ago, which was a pretty good deal at the time. 8GB is a little bigger than one DVD, which costs less than 25 cents to make. Additionally, Blu-ray disks are becoming much cheaper as well - I would bet that they're under a dollar per disk now. The two media are vastly cheaper to produce en masse, and will not be replaced by thumb drives any time soon.

[Bojay1997]

Not a chance. Look at how much a USB drive costs at a store - I paid $30 for an 8GB one a few months ago, which was a pretty good deal at the time. 8GB is a little bigger than one DVD, which costs less than 25 cents to make. Additionally, Blu-ray disks are becoming much cheaper as well - I would bet that they're under a dollar per disk now. The two media are vastly cheaper to produce en masse, and will not be replaced by thumb drives any time soon.

Agreed. I'm not sure why this return to cartridge or non-disc media argument keeps coming up. Now that Blu Ray is really starting to take off and media costs are coming way down (last quote I saw was $1.00 per single layer disc at wholesale replication or $3.00 for a fully packaged disc in quantities of 1,000 or more which means it is just slightly higher than standard DVD pricing right now which runs fifty cents a disc or $1.50 fully packaged in quantity), there really is no good argument for USB drives or other removable media as a format for commercial software. Heck, if publishers really wanted to pursue this retailer centered model of download sale, they could put Blu Ray burning kiosks in stores since Blu Ray has extremely solid copy protection. There is no advantage whatsoever to the publisher for using non-disc media and as a consumer there seems to be no advantage either, other than maybe some marginal benefit to being able to reuse the memory stick which really doesn't seem to be worth much at all.

[scottw182]

I mostly just want an updated Wii. I want HD, 1st party remotes with rechargeable batteries and motionplus built in, and better online play.

It would be nice if the 360 got an upgrade too. A more reliable system with built-in wifi, I guess that's about all they need.

I'm really anxious to see what the next generation of gaming does with all of our downloaded content. I've been slow to purchase downloadable content because I'm afraid it's not going to carry over to the next systems.

[Nature Boy]

Agreed. I'm not sure why this return to cartridge or non-disc media argument keeps coming up.

That's easy. We're a bunch of retro-gamers, and we like holding carts in our hands more than we like holding discs! :)

It doesn't *feel* to early to be wondering why we haven't heard about the next gen yet, but maybe it actually is too early. Wasn't the PS2 announced in early 1999? Japan got it a year later and we got it 6 months after that?

[kupomogli]

Sony's next portable should use the Memory Stick Pro Duo format for the games. Cartridge games that can get up to 16gb in size. Put some copy protection to prevent piracy.

[j_factor]

Sony's next portable should use the Memory Stick Pro Duo format for the games. Cartridge games that can get up to 16gb in size. Put some copy protection to prevent piracy.

And games will cost how much?

[ScourDX]

Looks like 3d glasses are making their way back and also 3d HDTV. There were lots of demo at the CES 2010.

[j_factor]

There was one CES back in the 90s where just about every electronics company was showing off a new head-mounted display. Just saying.

[Icarus Moonsight]

And games will cost how much?

Five-hundred and ninety-nine US dollars...

People will get second jobs. You can count on it. :D

[jb143]

Looks like 3d glasses are making their way back and also 3d HDTV. There were lots of demo at the CES 2010.


It's about time. People lost interest when VR was in it's easly stages and wasn't like in the movies. Now that we finally have the tech, it's nice to see it make a comeback...but not as a replacement of course.

I heard that Boom-Blox was going to support head tracking, which can be really cool, but they took it out for some reason. I can see that as being a feature on next-gen consoles. The Wii, as far as I know, is the only system than can currently support it with very little extra add-ons(cheap IR-LED head mount) but no one's doing it yet.

Though, I can't see 3d HDTV's becoming mainstream for quite some time. Everyone just recenty upgraged their TV to a new expensive one and I can't see them doign it again any time soon.

[WCP]

First off, I think the Economy is the biggest reason. Even though it seems the worst is behind us, I don't think anybody is really excited about spending $399.99 plus tax on a new game console. Maybe the diehard graphics whores, but that's about it.

Now, I'm sure that Microsoft and Sony, and even Nintendo to a lesser degree are seeing the writing on the wall in terms of the whole digital download thing. I honestly think that these companies are going to try to prolong this generation as long as humanly possible. The idea would be that if they could keep this generation going all the way till around 2014 or 2015, then they could actually come out with a console that has no optical drive whatsoever. They won't be able to get away with that in 2011 or 2012, but if they wait till 2014 and 2015, that just might be feasible.

Now for the people that think it's absolutely impossible for MS or Sony (or even Nintendo) to go this route, because it will affect a huge portion of the world that doesn't have high speed internet access, well, I'm sure they will have a solution for that.

The solution will be incredibly simple. Right now they are selling 32 gig USB thumb sticks at Fry's Electronics for about $60 (on sale), and 64 gig usb thumb sticks for about $99. By the time we get to November 2014, a 64 gig USB thumbstick will be like $10.

Now, this is how it will work. 70 percent of the market will just download their games online. You will be able to start the download a couple of days prior to the release date, so that at 12am on the release date, the game will be fully downloaded, and installed, and ready to go.

The other 30 percent of the market that doesn't have the high speed connection will take the 64 gig USB stick (that is supplied with the console when you buy it), to an authorized game download center inside Wal-Mart, Target, GameStop, whatever. They will give their thumbstick to the clerk, who will copy the file to the thumbstick, they will pay the money, and that will be that. Then they will go home and copy the file to their terrabyte HDD on their console.

Now, will it be somewhat of an inconvenience for the customer to have to go thru that process? Yes it will, but that will be the price you pay for not having a high speed connection at home. This inconvenience will spur the customer to finally climb out of the dark ages and get themselves a real deal internet connection. The real question is whether Wal-Mart, Target, GameStop, Best Buy, etc, etc, will play ball. If they won't, then Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony will have to go with the direct sale formula that Gateway used for a number of years. There will be Sony stores, Microsoft stores and Nintendo stores at the local mall, that will sell consoles and offer the download center. 80 percent of their hardware sales will likely come from online and telephone orders, but they will have to offer a brick and mortar solution for those people that need to come into to copy whatever game onto their USB stick.

Eventually, you will go into a Target, Wal-Mart, BestBuy or whatever, and they won't have a section that sells physical media. There is no escaping it, it's just a question of when.

[Bojay1997]

First off, I think the Economy is the biggest reason. Even though it seems the worst is behind us, I don't think anybody is really excited about spending $399.99 plus tax on a new game console. Maybe the diehard graphics whores, but that's about it.

Now, I'm sure that Microsoft and Sony, and even Nintendo to a lesser degree are seeing the writing on the wall in terms of the whole digital download thing. I honestly think that these companies are going to try to prolong this generation as long as humanly possible. The idea would be that if they could keep this generation going all the way till around 2014 or 2015, then they could actually come out with a console that has no optical drive whatsoever. They won't be able to get away with that in 2011 or 2012, but if they wait till 2014 and 2015, that just might be feasible.

Now for the people that think it's absolutely impossible for MS or Sony (or even Nintendo) to go this route, because it will affect a huge portion of the world that doesn't have high speed internet access, well, I'm sure they will have a solution for that.

The solution will be incredibly simple. Right now they are selling 32 gig USB thumb sticks at Fry's Electronics for about $60 (on sale), and 64 gig usb thumb sticks for about $99. By the time we get to November 2014, a 64 gig USB thumbstick will be like $10.

Now, this is how it will work. 70 percent of the market will just download their games online. You will be able to start the download a couple of days prior to the release date, so that at 12am on the release date, the game will be fully downloaded, and installed, and ready to go.

The other 30 percent of the market that doesn't have the high speed connection will take the 64 gig USB stick (that is supplied with the console when you buy it), to an authorized game download center inside Wal-Mart, Target, GameStop, whatever. They will give their thumbstick to the clerk, who will copy the file to the thumbstick, they will pay the money, and that will be that. Then they will go home and copy the file to their terrabyte HDD on their console.

Now, will it be somewhat of an inconvenience for the customer to have to go thru that process? Yes it will, but that will be the price you pay for not having a high speed connection at home. This inconvenience will spur the customer to finally climb out of the dark ages and get themselves a real deal internet connection. The real question is whether Wal-Mart, Target, GameStop, Best Buy, etc, etc, will play ball. If they won't, then Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony will have to go with the direct sale formula that Gateway used for a number of years. There will be Sony stores, Microsoft stores and Nintendo stores at the local mall, that will sell consoles and offer the download center. 80 percent of their hardware sales will likely come from online and telephone orders, but they will have to offer a brick and mortar solution for those people that need to come into to copy whatever game onto their USB stick.

Eventually, you will go into a Target, Wal-Mart, BestBuy or whatever, and they won't have a section that sells physical media. There is no escaping it, it's just a question of when.

Why would the manufacturers bother with a thumb stick when disc media will always be much cheaper and easier to protect? Why wouldn't they just go the RedBox route and just stick kiosks with burners in grocery stores and in strip malls?

[WCP]

Why would the manufacturers bother with a thumb stick when disc media will always be much cheaper and easier to protect? Why wouldn't they just go the RedBox route and just stick kiosks with burners in grocery stores and in strip malls?


Because the whole idea is not to have any optical media whatsoever. No optical media means no optical drive. No optical drive means no moving parts. Moving parts break, wear out, get out of alignment, etc, etc.

Also consider the fact that often the Xbox 360 has the noise level of a jet engine. A big part of that is the optical drive creating tons of noise. No optical drive means no noise from that optical drive. The real reason of course that they would want to move away from optical drives, is because they want everyone to move to a digital download only future. The only reason for the thumb drive thing, is just so consumers who live in remote places without high speed broadband would have a way to still get their games. The thumb drives wouldn't be used as a replacement for the DVD disks we are using now, it would just be a transportation method. A way to transport the game from the "authorized download center", to your consoles HDD. You wouldn't be playing games from the thumb drive itself, it would require the game to be transferred to the HDD, and once transferred the file remaining on the thumb drive would automatically corrupt itself, so that it would be unusable, thus you wouldn't be able to buy the game once and transfer it to multiple consoles.

[Bojay1997]

Because the whole idea is not to have any optical media whatsoever. No optical media means no optical drive. No optical drive means no moving parts. Moving parts break, wear out, get out of alignment, etc, etc.

Also consider the fact that often the Xbox 360 has the noise level of a jet engine. A big part of that is the optical drive creating tons of noise. No optical drive means no noise from that optical drive. The real reason of course that they would want to move away from optical drives, is because they want everyone to move to a digital download only future. The only reason for the thumb drive thing, is just so consumers who live in remote places without high speed broadband would have a way to still get their games. The thumb drives wouldn't be used as a replacement for the DVD disks we are using now, it would just be a transportation method. A way to transport the game from the "authorized download center", to your consoles HDD. You wouldn't be playing games from the thumb drive itself, it would require the game to be transferred to the HDD, and once transferred the file remaining on the thumb drive would automatically corrupt itself, so that it would be unusable, thus you wouldn't be able to buy the game once and transfer it to multiple consoles.

So what? Console manufacturers have no incentive to remove optical drives and in fact, their lack of reliability over time is actually to their benefit since the warranties on consoles typically expire well before an optical drive will die. The manufacturers aren't opposed to optical drives or media per se, their interest is in having direct access to customers without a retailer intervention. Any type of protection or file limitation which can be done with a thumb drive can be done cheaper on an optical disc. I don't know if you recall this, but Blockbuster actually had a prototype of a DVD disc that locked itself after a single play through in the early 2000s and similar technologies exist today. I agree that once downloading becomes the dominant delivery format, optical drives may go away, but it's not gonna happen in this upcoming generation and I doubt that thumbsticks or a similar removable media will be the replacement.

[Rob2600]

Natal doesn't necessarily mean MS won't release a new console as soon as 2011 though. Natal could be the new 32x.

If Natal is anything like the actual 360, its insides will melt within six months of purchase.

Seriously though, I'm not putting any faith in Natal. At this point, I agree that it'll end up being another 32X, if not flat-out vaporware. It'd be awesome if Microsoft proves me wrong and releases Natal on time, it functions well, and has an impressive lineup of games, but right now, I'm skeptical.

[kedawa]

Where in the world can people afford a $300 game system, but can't get broadband, and why would they want one if they can't play it online?

[Gameguy]

Why would the manufacturers bother with a thumb stick when disc media will always be much cheaper and easier to protect? Why wouldn't they just go the RedBox route and just stick kiosks with burners in grocery stores and in strip malls?
How is it easier to protect? Disc media is so cheap anybody with a computer can download and burn games themselves. Back in the day there were pirate carts available, but most people couldn't make them at home. Just check on craigslist, how many people are selling disc based systems that are modded? If you move to a custom format type of flash memory you'll reduce piracy and sell more games. The only thing to worry about are flash carts now, there's plenty for the DS and that's a problem since plenty of people use them to pirate(there's plenty of cool homebrew stuff too though).

Plus how long does it take to burn a disc compared to write to a flash drive? I honestly don't burn discs but doesn't it take a long time if there's lots of data?

[j_factor]

How is it easier to protect? Disc media is so cheap anybody with a computer can download and burn games themselves. Back in the day there were pirate carts available, but most people couldn't make them at home. Just check on craigslist, how many people are selling disc based systems that are modded? If you move to a custom format type of flash memory you'll reduce piracy and sell more games. The only thing to worry about are flash carts now, there's plenty for the DS and that's a problem since plenty of people use them to pirate(there's plenty of cool homebrew stuff too though).

Plus how long does it take to burn a disc compared to write to a flash drive? I honestly don't burn discs but doesn't it take a long time if there's lots of data?

I don't see how it would reduce piracy. It's not harder to copy data to a hard drive than to burn a disc. Sure, they'll employ a good copy-protection scheme, but it'll be cracked. Piracy is rampant on the iPhone.

[Hep038]

If Natal is anything like the actual 360, its insides will melt within six months of purchase.

Seriously though, I'm not putting any faith in Natal. At this point, I agree that it'll end up being another 32X, if not flat-out vaporware. It'd be awesome if Microsoft proves me wrong and releases Natal on time, it functions well, and has an impressive lineup of games, but right now, I'm skeptical.


Way to be objective.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Where in the world can people afford a $300 game system, but can't get broadband, and why would they want one if they can't play it online?

York, South Carolina. It's where I live. I'm 40 minutes outside of Charlotte, NC and 20 minutes outside of a town with 67,000 residents. And 5 minutes outside of a town with high speed internet from DSL and Cable. I have a PS3 and completely-unusable-for-online-gaming satellite internet. I believe I've already said something about our not-so-perfect data infrastructure earlier in this thread and you commented on it.

And I know it's hard to believe, but there are people who can drop $300 on a game system and not live in an area with broadband coverage.

And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that they're are many people in the country like me. If you have television where you live, you may see ads on the TV for satellite internet. Satellite internet can afford TV airtime because people like me, pay $90 a month for a sub par connection.

[Gameguy]

I don't see how it would reduce piracy. It's not harder to copy data to a hard drive than to burn a disc. Sure, they'll employ a good copy-protection scheme, but it'll be cracked. Piracy is rampant on the iPhone.
I don't see a need for a hard drive, the games should play off of the flash memory just like DS games do. That's more in line to how the Famicom Disk System worked, the games were recorded to those floppy disks and played off of them, they weren't copied again to a hard drive. It could reduce the number of used games on the market though, just re-write over a game you're bored with instead of buying a new flash card first to have a game written to it. More people will be forced to buy new games instead of waiting for a used copy to turn up. If a disc has a game burned to it, it can be sold later as you can't re-burn it.

There probably still will be piracy though, I originally didn't think of re-writable flash cards like the DS has when I thought of using memory cards for new systems(I actually added that into my post above right before posting it). Some company will probably make them and people will just use flash carts to download games, there were even those backup units for the SNES that people used back in the day, though they weren't exactly common. I forgot about those too.

[Bojay1997]

How is it easier to protect? Disc media is so cheap anybody with a computer can download and burn games themselves. Back in the day there were pirate carts available, but most people couldn't make them at home. Just check on craigslist, how many people are selling disc based systems that are modded? If you move to a custom format type of flash memory you'll reduce piracy and sell more games. The only thing to worry about are flash carts now, there's plenty for the DS and that's a problem since plenty of people use them to pirate(there's plenty of cool homebrew stuff too though).

Plus how long does it take to burn a disc compared to write to a flash drive? I honestly don't burn discs but doesn't it take a long time if there's lots of data?

Pretty sure Blu Ray hasn't yet been cracked, at least not in a way that allows for mass piracy. There is literally nothing that can be done on a flash memory stick that can't be done on a disc copy protection wise. Similarly, high speed disc duplication can easily be put into kiosks which will be as fast as if not faster than transfering gigs of data to a flash cart. I realize you guys really want a return of the cartridge or the modern version of it, but it ain't gonna happen. The next major iteration is going to be download only with no retail or kiosk component, it's just going to take another console generation since Internet speeds are still 5-10 years away from where they need to be to make it practical in many areas of the country. I have no doubt that we will get there, however, and just like cable TV, we will have 95% or more of households able to receive high speed reliable broadband.

[j_factor]

I don't see a need for a hard drive, the games should play off of the flash memory just like DS games do.

That's way different. DS sells games on cards; the post you quoted was talking about digital distribution using USB flash drives (secondarily to having the games on hard drives).

Either way there will be piracy. A situation like the SNES where you need a special, uncommon, and somewhat expensive copier that's specific to the system, is not going to happen again.


Pretty sure Blu Ray hasn't yet been cracked, at least not in a way that allows for mass piracy.

That's more due to the expense of the discs than anything else. It's only a matter of time.


There is literally nothing that can be done on a flash memory stick that can't be done on a disc copy protection wise.

Indeed.

[Gameguy]

Pretty sure Blu Ray hasn't yet been cracked, at least not in a way that allows for mass piracy. There is literally nothing that can be done on a flash memory stick that can't be done on a disc copy protection wise. Similarly, high speed disc duplication can easily be put into kiosks which will be as fast as if not faster than transfering gigs of data to a flash cart. I realize you guys really want a return of the cartridge or the modern version of it, but it ain't gonna happen. The next major iteration is going to be download only with no retail or kiosk component, it's just going to take another console generation since Internet speeds are still 5-10 years away from where they need to be to make it practical in many areas of the country. I have no doubt that we will get there, however, and just like cable TV, we will have 95% or more of households able to receive high speed reliable broadband.
I was not aware of the fast burning speed of discs, I didn't know as I don't burn discs(I have an old PC). I just looked up Blu Rays and I didn't know they held about 25GB of data, I just thought maybe a few GB.

I did do a search about Blu Rays before I posted originally, there are plenty of sites that say how to copy/burn them. I'll just post links to a couple of them.

http://wesleytech.com/burn-blu-rays-a-how-to-guide-for-burning-bd-r-discs/713/

http://www.burnworld.com/

[kedawa]

And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that they're are many people in the country like me. If you have television where you live, you may see ads on the TV for satellite internet. Satellite internet can afford TV airtime because people like me, pay $90 a month for a sub par connection.
You pay $90/mo for dial-up?

[WCP]

So what? Console manufacturers have no incentive to remove optical drives and in fact, their lack of reliability over time is actually to their benefit since the warranties on consoles typically expire well before an optical drive will die. The manufacturers aren't opposed to optical drives or media per se, their interest is in having direct access to customers without a retailer intervention. Any type of protection or file limitation which can be done with a thumb drive can be done cheaper on an optical disc. I don't know if you recall this, but Blockbuster actually had a prototype of a DVD disc that locked itself after a single play through in the early 2000s and similar technologies exist today. I agree that once downloading becomes the dominant delivery format, optical drives may go away, but it's not gonna happen in this upcoming generation and I doubt that thumbsticks or a similar removable media will be the replacement.


Putting an optical drive in a system costs money and also makes the device larger/bulkier. Just look at netbooks. No optical drive, and they can be incredibly small. If the 360 had no need for an optical drive, it would be quite a bit smaller.

I just think that if Sony and Microsoft can stretch this cycle out all the way till about 2014 (which sounds crazy I know...), then they will say F U to the idea of having an optical drive. Especially Microsoft. If they had an optical drive in their next system, it would have to be Blu Ray. They would like to avoid that if at all possible, and I think digital download is the way to do that. Obviously, because some people aren't going to be able to download these gigantic files, they are going to have to find a way to service those customers as well, and downloading kiosks or something will be the way they do it.

If MS releases a console prior to November 2014, then maybe they will still have to have some type of drive, but if they can hold out until late 2014, I think they can actually get away with it. It would be a bold move for sure, but I think they just might take the chance.

[Gameguy]

That's way different. DS sells games on cards; the post you quoted was talking about digital distribution using USB flash drives (secondarily to having the games on hard drives).

Either way there will be piracy. A situation like the SNES where you need a special, uncommon, and somewhat expensive copier that's specific to the system, is not going to happen again.
That's kind of why i said they should use a custom type of flash card instead of a standard USB flash drive or a common off the shelf one that's used for plenty of devices. I don't come across bootleg DS games in the wild too often, I know that they're out there though this was mostly before the re-writable flash cards were common for the DS. I know that there are plenty of bootleg cartridges out there so piracy will always be out there, but with discs there's really more of it. I come across burned discs all the time in thrift stores. Either for video games, software, DVDs, CDs, etc. I hardly see bootleg carts for any system anywhere, the odd one every few months but there's nowhere near the amount compared to burned discs I see.

Even ignoring piracy, it would reduce the amount of used games available as people can overwrite the cards that have games they don't like. With discs they can only be sold or thrown out/given away. Since there's plenty of people who wait to buy games used(or just rent them), they'll be forced to buy the game new as they won't be able to find used copies too easily, people will either keep the game or overwrite it. The key will be to make the games themselves cheap to buy, the flash cards to write them on will be the moneymaker. It will also force games to be good, if they're bad they won't get people to buy more flash cards so they won't be available for long. Less crap out there.

I'm wondering, would it be possible for the flash cards to be written in a custom format so they can't be read with a computer? Kind of like you couldn't read an IBM formatted floppy disk on a Mac back in the day.

[j_factor]

That's kind of why i said they should use a custom type of flash card instead of a standard USB flash drive or a common off the shelf one that's used for plenty of devices. I don't come across bootleg DS games in the wild too often, I know that they're out there though this was mostly before the re-writable flash cards were common for the DS. I know that there are plenty of bootleg cartridges out there so piracy will always be out there, but with discs there's really more of it. I come across burned discs all the time in thrift stores. Either for video games, software, DVDs, CDs, etc. I hardly see bootleg carts for any system anywhere, the odd one every few months but there's nowhere near the amount compared to burned discs I see.

I think this is more of an advantage for discs, actually. I've seen countless bootleg GBA games. They even commonly turn up at legitimate retailers like Gamestop. Many are very good fakes, and the untrained eye can't tell. Even with the amount of piracy Playstation and Dreamcast had/have, never have I ever seen an illegal copy dressed up to look like the real thing. There's plenty of downloading, or swapping burns, etc., but you don't see burned discs being passed off as legitimate.


Even ignoring piracy, it would reduce the amount of used games available as people can overwrite the cards that have games they don't like. With discs they can only be sold or thrown out/given away. Since there's plenty of people who wait to buy games used(or just rent them), they'll be forced to buy the game new as they won't be able to find used copies too easily, people will either keep the game or overwrite it. The key will be to make the games themselves cheap to buy, the flash cards to write them on will be the moneymaker. It will also force games to be good, if they're bad they won't get people to buy more flash cards so they won't be available for long. Less crap out there.

I don't see this type of scheme happening. Either it will be digital distribution with no (legitimate) used game sales, or it will be normal physical releases, or a combination of the two.


I'm wondering, would it be possible for the flash cards to be written in a custom format so they can't be read with a computer? Kind of like you couldn't read an IBM formatted floppy disk on a Mac back in the day.

Sure, but there's always a way of getting around it. The only game system in history that you can't pirate for today is PS3, and we all know that won't last forever. Really if piracy is the #1 concern, they should just use some sort of proprietary format. It won't keep piracy away forever, but it will delay it. It took quite a while for Gamecube piracy to become doable.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

You pay $90/mo for dial-up?

You either have serious reading comprehension skills, or your being a smartass. Either way, this is pointless.

[WCP]

I seriously doubt that Microsoft or Sony, will switch to SD cards or USB thumb sticks as a replacement for disks. The whole idea is to kill the used game market. Switching from one type of physical media (disks), to another (thumb sticks, flash cards), doesn't solve their primary issue.

The only reason they will even have a usb thumb stick (or other similar device), is for the people that are unable to download the games directly to the built in hard drive via their internet connection. The usb thumb stick (or whatever device they end up using), will simply be an accessory. Not a new form of media. It will be like a transfer kit. It will allow these people to go to a retail location where they can have the game they are interested in, copied to the device, and then they will take the device home, plug it into their console, and transfer the game onto the consoles hard drive.

The whole concept is that the game can only be played when it resides on the hard drive, and not in any kind of media that is removable. This way, they can kill the used game market, and the rental market, and increase their profit margins.

Also, you can bet your bottom dollar, that whatever type of device they decide to use to do the transferring (thumb stick, SD card, whatever...), it will be made in some type of proprietary way, and they will do their damndest to make sure that it can't be used to pirate the games somehow.

[Rob2600]

Am I the only one who hates the term "thumb drive" or "thumb stick?" It's a memory stick.

Regarding high speed internet access, for $20 a month, I get 6-12 Mbps down, 2 Mbps up with Comcast. For $40 a month, it's 16-20 Mbps down, 3 Mbps up. Those are the bundled prices with cable TV service. For cable internet alone, the prices would be around $45 and $65 respectively. Still doable.

For $90 a month, I'd expect a sustained 50 Mbps down and 25 Mbps up, for real.

[jb143]

Am I the only one who hates the term "thumb drive" or "thumb stick?" It's a memory stick.

ThumbDrive is a trademarked name for a particular companies drive. I think "USB flash drive" is the defacto term. And "memory stick" is a Sony/SanDisk name for their non-USB flash memory cards. Just to clear things up... ;)

And one of the problems with flash memory is that they can only be written/re-written so many times.

Edit-
I looked it up, Trek Technology was one of the first companies to sell them and called their model "ThumbDrive" so that explains why the term is a genericized trademark like Kleenex.

And my parents live out in the country and thier only option for "high speed" internet is the USB thing though verizon. It's faster than dialup but still really slow.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Memory stick is what Sony calls their flash media. I like the term memory stick better, but it's more confusing, so I default to thumb drive. Blame Sony.

For me it's either a 26k dial-up connection or satellite. It's not like I have a choice in the matter. 26k is not a speed that works for today's internet in any way.

Edit: jb143 beat me to it.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Not possible. There are many sections of the country where high speed internet isn't available.

The newest PSP is download only, isn't it?

[Rob2600]

Thanks for pointing that out. I have no problem with "flash drive." That's the term I'll use from now on.

Sorry to hear about your internet situation. $90 a month...ouch. What speeds do you get with your satellite connection?

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Thanks for pointing that out. I have no problem with "flash drive." That's the term I'll use from now on.

Sorry to hear about your internet situation. $90 a month...ouch. What speeds do you get with your satellite connection?

Flash drive, I knew there was a term for it I forgot. I agree, that's the best way to describe it.

Well, I was slightly off, our internet is $80 before taxes are figured in. Which still brings it close.

Speeds & packages with Wild Blue internet.


Package______$__________Download_______UP_________ _Monthly Bandwidth Limitations

Value_______49.95________512kbps_______128kbps____ __7.5GB Down/2.3GB Upload
Select______69.95________1.0mbps_______200kbps____ __12gb Down/3GB Upload
Pro_________79.95________1.5mbps_______256kbps____ __17GB Down/5GB Upload


If you exceed the Monthly bandwidth limitations or FAP (Fair Access Policy), as it's known, they cap your rate until your usage rates are about 70% of the total GB limitation. When they cap your connection, 26k dialup looks like DSL- it's that slow. And the way they figure how much you used is done in a odd way too. It isn't figured from the 1st day of the month, it's called a rolling 30 days FAP, where they look at the prior usage on the same day last month and subtract it from todays total. It's a little hard to explain, my girlfriend still doesn't exactly understand it. But yeah, we use the "Pro" one. When our connection is capped it takes about a week or 2 to return to normal satellite speeds. And what the figures above down tell you is there is a "lag" in the connection, which effectively keeps you from gaming online. It's weird when I check my bank account, it takes about 5 minutes... which I guess has something to do with the lag and security restrictions.

[Nature Boy]

I don't see how it would reduce piracy. It's not harder to copy data to a hard drive than to burn a disc. Sure, they'll employ a good copy-protection scheme, but it'll be cracked. Piracy is rampant on the iPhone.

I don't see how you can think burning a disc would *ever* be easier than simply copying a file to a Hard Drive? If I'm pirating something I'll take copying to a HD *any* day over having to burn discs for it. One is drag and drop. the other involves making sure your burner software has the right settings, you use the right media, etc, etc.

If I'm a manufacturer I stay away from flash media and the like and I stick with discs without even blinking.

[jb143]

The newest PSP is download only, isn't it?

What's the largest file size for a game though. It would be bad if the time to download a game was greater than its battery life.LOL

[Rob2600]

I understand the 30 day rolling cap. For any given 30 day period, you can't exceed the cap. Makes sense.

The cheapest plan you listed would be useless to me. The middle plan would be tolerable, and the plan you pay for is good enough for most uses. Those upload speeds are torture though. Damn.

Now I'm thankful for the lousy 2 Mbps of upload bandwith I get through Comcast.

Your 30 day cap isn't too horrendously restrictive, but when I look at your provider's specs as a whole, it just doesn't add up to $80 a month. I can't believe they get away with those rip-off rates. I feel your pain.

[kedawa]

Satellite internet isn't suitable for gaming at all. The latency is absurdly high.
I'd rather get internet through a tethered cell phone than deal with that crap.

[Bojay1997]

The newest PSP is download only, isn't it?

Yes and Sony continues to sell a PSP model with a UMD drive and third parties are talking about making an external UMD drive for the PSP Go. Also, the sales numbers for the Go have been horrible worldwide.