Next Nintendo Console

[theoakwoody]

Will the next Nintendo Console be as inferior technically to its competitors as the Wii is compared to the other consoles of this generation? I mean, if you look at Nintendo historically they have kind of been up and down.

Famicom < Master System

Snes > Genesis

N64 < PS (They each had their strengths but no CDs give Sony the edge)

Gamecube = Xbox

Wii < 360,PS3

So historically Nintendo hasn't always been the underpowered machine that could. I wonder if they lost a lot of money on each gamecube system they sold as it clearly could do everything the xbox could do minus online abilities.

[kedawa]

I'm pretty sure the Gamecube was a profitable piece of hardware right from the get go.
If they just plan on releasing an HD capable Wii, I would imagine it would be on par with the 360 and maybe Ps3, but nothing more. I don't expect them to retain GC backward compatibility either.

[vgc]

The Gamecube was equal to the XBOX? Reallly? Mike : )

[j_factor]

Nintendo has never based their hardware designs around having the most powerful system (and thus, have never had it, with the possible exception of N64). Instead, they're concerned with hardware features that they feel will be useful for games. Specifically, their games. If you're going to make Mario in 3D, a z-buffer is very helpful for that kind of game, the space of a CD-ROM is not necessary, and you won't need much of a texture cache. Likewise with the Wii -- a powerful GPU wouldn't do much for Wii Sports.

[swlovinist]

As for the Gamecube,

It was more like PS2 < Gamecube < Xbox in terms of processing power

[Zap!]

I sure hope it won't be called the "Wii 2" and hope it's a new system drawn from scratch.

[G-Boobie]

I sure hope it won't be called the "Wii 2" and hope it's a new system drawn from scratch.

Smart money is on an iPod-like hardware iteration for Nintendo, similar to what they've done with the DS so far. This is obviously just a guess, but I'd bet on HD output, motion-plus quality input from the controller, a hard drive, and better online functionality. That'll probably be it, at least for now.

The Wii has been so successful that they risk alienating their new-found audience if they deviate too far from what they've been doing. Smarter to just offer an optional upgrade every few years and go from there: they can always start from scratch if interest in the Wii line falls far enough.

[Zoltor]

Smart money is on an iPod-like hardware iteration for Nintendo, similar to what they've done with the DS so far. This is obviously just a guess, but I'd bet on HD output, motion-plus quality input from the controller, a hard drive, and better online functionality. That'll probably be it, at least for now.

The Wii has been so successful that they risk alienating their new-found audience if they deviate too far from what they've been doing. Smarter to just offer an optional upgrade every few years and go from there: they can always start from scratch if interest in the Wii line falls far enough.

Why on earth would Nintendo go to using a hard drive, when SD cards are better/more efficiant, and can allow Nintendo to retail the consol alot cheaper(even it came with some SD cards). I would put my money on them updating the software to support the higher compacity SD cards if aything.

[G-Boobie]

Why on earth would Nintendo go to using a hard drive, when SD cards are better/more efficiant, and can allow Nintendo to retail the consol alot cheaper(even it came with some SD cards). I would put my money on them updating the software to support the higher compacity SD cards if aything.

1) As a memory cache for developers
2) To make more room for DL only games, which is going to be very important very soon.
3) The appearance of 'added value'
4) to fight piracy (this might sound crazy, but the Wii is firmly hacked, and the SD slot is partly responsible for the ease in which you can do so. Limiting the methods by which you can install non-standard software by cutting out SD slots and adding a hard drive is a pretty smart solution. See the Xbox 360, which must be hard modded).
5) more room for the OS and system software
6) 800,000,000 more Miis on a single system
7) It turns out the "vitality sensor" is actually a fully self-aware health monitoring system and diagnostician, and requires a 46 gig install.

[kedawa]

Hard drives are headed for obsolescence, so if they put any substantial amount of internal storage in their next console, it will probably be an SSD.

[Flack]

I don't see why more consoles don't support external hard drives. If they forced you to format it via the console itself, you could lock it in to that serial number. That would put the cost of buying an external/usb hard drive on the gamer, a cost most of us would be more than happy to absorb to have some decent storage. You can get an external tb drive for $100 these days. I'd love to have that kind of storage on any of my consoles.

[kedawa]

That would be great, especially if it's eSATA instead of USB. I'd actually be just as happy if user upgradeable HDDs like the PS3 has would become the standard.

[Ed Oscuro]

eSATA instead of USB.
Why not? It's a cheap enough connector after all, and pretty consumer-friendly. The only part that conceivably wouldn't be is the fact that touching a bare drive will send people into panics. Much better for manufacturers to break compatibility and sell branded drives in custom cases for a gigantic markup, though.

Hard drives aren' nearing obsolescence, either. Flash isn't really that much newer a technology (in terms of decades I suppose) but both are mature technologies. There may be something on the horizon, but for the moment it's just that.

[kedawa]

I guess it depends on the time frame. Two years from now, hard drives will still be the best all around storage medium for non-portable devices, but four years from now that might not be the case.

[Breetai]

Famicom < Master System

Snes > Genesis

N64 < PS (They each had their strengths but no CDs give Sony the edge)

Gamecube = Xbox

Wii < 360,PS3
You claim that you're comparing Nintendo consoles to others in its generation technically, yet you seem to have no clue of the systems specs. It should look like this:

Famicom < Master System

Snes <(debatable)> Genesis (the Genesis has a faster processor speed, higher resolution and ability to handle parallax scrolling. The SNES had more available colours, more on screen colours and built in special effects. The SNES sound chip has more range and an overall higher quality, but it's so different than the Genesis chip that the produce completely different sounds. It's more a matter of preference on the sound)

N64 > PS (CDs being superior to cartridges is very debatable. The N64 easily beat the PS1 technically)

Gamecube < Xbox (seems you really had no clue here. The X-Box had the GCN beat technically)

Wii < 360,PS3



By the way, the next N console will either be called "Wii 2.0" or "Wagina".

That is all.

[MarkM2112]

By the way, the next N console will either be called "Wii 2.0" or "Wagina".

That is all.


WAGINA??? Sounds like a female body part...

[BetaWolf47]

Gamecube < Xbox (seems you really had no clue here. The X-Box had the GCN beat technically)

Gamecube and Xbox are closer in power than PS3 and Xbox 360 though. The games that had a better Xbox port showed a very, very minor difference.

Wii 2 sounds funny in Japanese, if you know how to say 2 in that language :P

[j_factor]

Gamecube and Xbox are closer in power than PS3 and Xbox 360 though. The games that had a better Xbox port showed a very, very minor difference.

Not necessarily. It really depends on the game, and in most cases (perhaps all), they were PS2 games anyway, so how much they say about Gamecube versus Xbox is anyone's guess. Although I do know that in some cases, they basically made a PS2 version and an Xbox version, and the Gamecube version was the PS2 one but smoother.

[Porksta]

I don't see why more consoles don't support external hard drives. If they forced you to format it via the console itself, you could lock it in to that serial number. That would put the cost of buying an external/usb hard drive on the gamer, a cost most of us would be more than happy to absorb to have some decent storage. You can get an external tb drive for $100 these days. I'd love to have that kind of storage on any of my consoles.

One of the problems with users buying their own HDD's is compatibility. Will any hard drive I buy work with my Xbox? It had better. By making their own hard drives, they give the customer flexibility while also ensuring compatibility.

On a side note, if called the Wii 2, in Japan it will be known as the "Weeni". Wii+ni, get it?

[Zap!]

I guess it depends on the time frame. Two years from now, hard drives will still be the best all around storage medium for non-portable devices, but four years from now that might not be the case.

Four years from now could see 400+ gig SD cards.

[Zap!]

Snes <(debatable)> Genesis (the Genesis has a faster processor speed, higher resolution and ability to handle parallax scrolling. The SNES had more available colours, more on screen colours and built in special effects. The SNES sound chip has more range and an overall higher quality, but it's so different than the Genesis chip that the produce completely different sounds. It's more a matter of preference on the sound)

SNES resolution:
Progressive: 256x224, 512x224, 256x239, 512x239
Interlaced: 512x448, 512x478

Genesis resolution:
56×224, 256×448, 320×224, 320×448, (PAL and NTSC)

256×240, 320×240, 256×480, 320×480 (PAL only), 256×192 (SMS games only)

I also don't see it as debatable. To me at least, the top of the line SNES games looked a lot better than the top of the line Genesis games. Also, when you can compare two versions, I prefer the SNES' games.

[theoakwoody]

You claim that you're comparing Nintendo consoles to others in its generation technically, yet you seem to have no clue of the systems specs. It should look like this:

Famicom < Master System

Snes <(debatable)> Genesis (the Genesis has a faster processor speed, higher resolution and ability to handle parallax scrolling. The SNES had more available colours, more on screen colours and built in special effects. The SNES sound chip has more range and an overall higher quality, but it's so different than the Genesis chip that the produce completely different sounds. It's more a matter of preference on the sound)

N64 > PS (CDs being superior to cartridges is very debatable. The N64 easily beat the PS1 technically)

Gamecube < Xbox (seems you really had no clue here. The X-Box had the GCN beat technically)



I know all the specs of all the systems but who gives a shit about which system had better specs. I consider the 360 = ps3 even though the ps3 has "better specs". You know why? Because neither system can outperform each other. There aren't any games that came out on Xbox that couldn't also be done on gamecube.

As far as the N64 being clearly better I think a lot of people would argue about the ugly textures and fog and lack of draw distance that went into alot of games just to get a decent framerate.

The Snes was better period. Don't pretend having 64 onscreen colors at once is no big deal. When I compare systems I'm talking about what most people care about and its not specs, it's which system's games look way better than its competitors.

[badinsults]

Considering that Nintendo's primary goals for the Wii were to use as little power as possible (so that overheating was not an issue), and to keep its size smaller than three DVD cases, I can't really see how adding a hard drive is going to be possible now or ever. Really, the requirement of a hard drive is only for a few specialized type of game. Considering flash memory cost is coming down all the time, I doubt a hard drive will ever come to a Nintendo console.

[j_factor]

SNES resolution:
Progressive: 256x224, 512x224, 256x239, 512x239
Interlaced: 512x448, 512x478

Genesis resolution:
56×224, 256×448, 320×224, 320×448, (PAL and NTSC)

256×240, 320×240, 256×480, 320×480 (PAL only), 256×192 (SMS games only)

Show me an SNES game that actually used one of those higher resolutions. 99% of SNES games are 256x224. This was an open question on an SNES board that I used to post on, years and years ago. From what we could gather, the higher resolutions were all restricted to (non-default uses of) Modes 5 and 6, which were rarely used at all, because they had other limitations. On Genesis, the majority of games use the horizontal resolution of 320, although 256x224 is used by a significant minority.


I also don't see it as debatable. To me at least, the top of the line SNES games looked a lot better than the top of the line Genesis games. Also, when you can compare two versions, I prefer the SNES' games.

I think it's "debatable" by virtue of the fact that it consistently gets debated. Also the "top of the line" SNES games mostly had extra hardware in the cartridge, and say little about the SNES hardware in comparison to other systems. I would further argue that I think the "top of the line" Neo Geo games look a lot better than the top of the line 3DO games, but that doesn't mean 3DO is a weaker system. And I think when you compare two versions, the Genesis version comes out as superior very often (but certainly not always), although I think that's a discussion for another thread.

The fact remains that SNES had its advantages and disadvantages. It isn't a case of one being completely superior to the other, like Xbox versus PS2. Going back to my earlier comment, the SNES was designed to do what Nintendo wanted it to do -- all-around system specs was not their priority. Mario's gameplay already worked great on the NES, so a fast processor or improved resolution would not have added much, but a large color palette would help set it apart.


I know all the specs of all the systems but who gives a shit about which system had better specs. I consider the 360 = ps3 even though the ps3 has "better specs". You know why? Because neither system can outperform each other. There aren't any games that came out on Xbox that couldn't also be done on gamecube.

What about Far Cry Instincts? It had been in development for Gamecube, but that version was cancelled, due to technical problems. Do you think Gamecube could've handled Doom 3 as well as Xbox did?


As far as the N64 being clearly better I think a lot of people would argue about the ugly textures and fog and lack of draw distance that went into alot of games just to get a decent framerate.

Good point, but those were kind of due to other issues. The N64 was still more powerful overall, even if it did have its drawbacks.


The Snes was better period. Don't pretend having 64 onscreen colors at once is no big deal. When I compare systems I'm talking about what most people care about and its not specs, it's which system's games look way better than its competitors.

The OP used the phrase "inferior technically" which to me suggests that specs are what's relevant, not populist arguments.

[Zap!]

Show me an SNES game that actually used one of those higher resolutions. 99% of SNES games are 256x224. This was an open question on an SNES board that I used to post on, years and years ago. From what we could gather, the higher resolutions were all restricted to (non-default uses of) Modes 5 and 6, which were rarely used at all, because they had other limitations. On Genesis, the majority of games use the horizontal resolution of 320, although 256x224 is used by a significant minority.

You're right, but technically so was I. The higher resolution option was there, whether it was used or not. The higher resolutions did have limits though. One is less colors on-screen, which is a big limitation IMO.

[quoteI think it's "debatable" by virtue of the fact that it consistently gets debated. Also the "top of the line" SNES games mostly had extra hardware in the cartridge, and say little about the SNES hardware in comparison to other systems. I would further argue that I think the "top of the line" Neo Geo games look a lot better than the top of the line 3DO games, but that doesn't mean 3DO is a weaker system. And I think when you compare two versions, the Genesis version comes out as superior very often (but certainly not always), although I think that's a discussion for another thread.
[/QUOTE]

I guess we will have agree to disagree. In my eyes only, I see that the vast majority of SNES games look a lot better than the vast majority of Genesis games.

As for the Neo-Geo vs. 3DO, that's a good debate. 2-D games look better on the NG, while 3-D look better on the 3DO.

I agree a separate thread for comparing two versions would be an excellent idea.

[kedawa]

Considering that Nintendo's primary goals for the Wii were to use as little power as possible (so that overheating was not an issue), and to keep its size smaller than three DVD cases, I can't really see how adding a hard drive is going to be possible now or ever. Really, the requirement of a hard drive is only for a few specialized type of game. Considering flash memory cost is coming down all the time, I doubt a hard drive will ever come to a Nintendo console.
The iPod Classic has a hard drive, so I'm sure Nintendo can fit one in the Wii even with its current form factor.

[N 2 Nintendo]

I'm not sure what Nintendo will do. But, it makes sense to me that they would want to present their future console, or upgrades as a old new. A good example is, Verbatim brand CDs. They look like little vinyl records. Much to Nintendo's success with applying this theory, and other well known companies like Capcom. Obvious examples are Megaman 9, and upcoming Megaman 10. Then we have the New Super Mario Brothers Wii, and the New Super Mario Bros NDS. They all pay huge homage to their predecessors, in their own ways. They are the old, in the new. Which I personal enjoy, and have felt others same response.

How would they do this? Well, that's up to them. I mean, maybe they should have the next console packaged with Super Mario Bros 4. I know I'd love to finally see this title made, a new classic 8-Bit Mario platformer? I think many would be sold on just being able to play that as soon as they possibly could, alone (Not including what the consoles new features may be). I know I'd be waiting in line in blistering cold weather (just like I did for a Wii) to get my hands on something like that. But they could add more, to make it more valued, like wii sports 2, etc. Someone I know of, said it best "It has never been better to be a retro gamer." (Derek Alexander)

[G-Boobie]

I don't see why more consoles don't support external hard drives. If they forced you to format it via the console itself, you could lock it in to that serial number. That would put the cost of buying an external/usb hard drive on the gamer, a cost most of us would be more than happy to absorb to have some decent storage. You can get an external tb drive for $100 these days. I'd love to have that kind of storage on any of my consoles.

I assume it's the piracy issue. Companies are learning that if they offer a method for folk to get foreign data on their consoles, they'll abuse it. The PSP, DS, and Wii are all hacked through their SD card slots by way of example. The 360 on the other hand, while ALSO firmly hacked, is much more troublesome to crack. A mod chip must be installed, which requires a much firmer commitment to actually go through with than following a YouTube tutorial and donwloading shady firmware from MegaUpload.

The PS3 has avoided the issue so far purely through the absence of re-writable Bluray discs and the relative rarity of BR drives. That's probably the reason they allow over the counter hard drives as upgrades to their system.

Just a guess, but I think it's a good one.

[j_factor]

I assume it's the piracy issue. Companies are learning that if they offer a method for folk to get foreign data on their consoles, they'll abuse it. The PSP, DS, and Wii are all hacked through their SD card slots by way of example. The 360 on the other hand, while ALSO firmly hacked, is much more troublesome to crack. A mod chip must be installed, which requires a much firmer commitment to actually go through with than following a YouTube tutorial and donwloading shady firmware from MegaUpload.

The PS3 has avoided the issue so far purely through the absence of re-writable Bluray discs and the relative rarity of BR drives. That's probably the reason they allow over the counter hard drives as upgrades to their system.

Just a guess, but I think it's a good one.

You just mentioned the PSP. I've never seen any re-writable UMD discs or any UMD drives. People just run their pirated games right off the stick. How come nobody's come up with a way to similarly run PS3 games off a hard drive? There must be something else to it.

[danny_galaga]

Will the next Nintendo Console be as inferior technically to its competitors as the Wii is compared to the other consoles of this generation? I mean, if you look at Nintendo historically they have kind of been up and down.

Famicom < Master System

Snes > Genesis

N64 < PS (They each had their strengths but no CDs give Sony the edge)

Gamecube = Xbox

Wii < 360,PS3

So historically Nintendo hasn't always been the underpowered machine that could. I wonder if they lost a lot of money on each gamecube system they sold as it clearly could do everything the xbox could do minus online abilities.

I doubt Nintendo lost money on Gamecube consoles. They were still of the mindset (and still are) that you should actually make a profit on hardware. Xbox on the other hand...

Oh, and i read somewhere that there is no real push by anyone for a next gen console at the moment. And that the next thing for Nintendo will be a hi definition Wii...

[johndarkness]

I assume it's the piracy issue. Companies are learning that if they offer a method for folk to get foreign data on their consoles, they'll abuse it. The PSP, DS, and Wii are all hacked through their SD card slots by way of example. The 360 on the other hand, while ALSO firmly hacked, is much more troublesome to crack. A mod chip must be installed, which requires a much firmer commitment to actually go through with than following a YouTube tutorial and donwloading shady firmware from MegaUpload.

The PS3 has avoided the issue so far purely through the absence of re-writable Bluray discs and the relative rarity of BR drives. That's probably the reason they allow over the counter hard drives as upgrades to their system.

Just a guess, but I think it's a good one.

No, it's bad one. Doesn't matter if you have any kind of card slot or not. The main reason why PS3 doesn't have backup yet is the way they secure the whole system. On the other system the security is poor so that's the way you can have modchips or customs firmware.
Another plus for PS3 is the extreme internal speed of the system and higher bit security keys they're using.
And one more thing to consider is that the % of people who have modded systems compare to normal user is so small that the companies don't care too much. Of course Europe is on the first place with piracy as there are more smarter people with way better and cheaper internet connection then the rest of the world.

[BetaWolf47]

We can speculate the next Nintendo console all we want. It doesn't matter what we guess - they're still going to pull something completely unexpected and run away with it. We can say the most far-fetched things ever and it still won't be as zany as the real deal.

[G-Boobie]

You just mentioned the PSP. I've never seen any re-writable UMD discs or any UMD drives. People just run their pirated games right off the stick. How come nobody's come up with a way to similarly run PS3 games off a hard drive? There must be something else to it.

You're right. I'm sure the crazy CPU architecture probably has something to do with the lack of PS3 piracy so far as well, though getting the data off a Blu-ray is still problematic. As for PSP games, you need to install custom firmware on the machine to run games off the stick, which is pretty easy to do.


And one more thing to consider is that the % of people who have modded systems compare to normal user is so small that the companies don't care too much. Of course Europe is on the first place with piracy as there are more smarter people with way better and cheaper internet connection then the rest of the world.

I strongly doubt that companies 'don't care' about piracy on the consoles: why do you think that Microsoft has a completely closed and proprietary system for memory cards and hard drives? They're also notorious for banning modded consoles whenever they get the chance.

As for the percentage issue, Call of Duty MW 2 for 360 was downloaded nearly one million times last year according to Torrent Freak, and it was only out for what, two months? I'm sure the number is even higher now.

Consider how poorly PSP software does at retail when compared to the hardware install base. A great deal of that inequity can probably be attributed to piracy(or at least, that's the popular opinion). A lot of that is due to the relative simplicity of the system architecture -you're right about the PS3's complexity- but the reason you're able to rip and disseminate PSP games so freely comes down to the ability to get foreign data on to a memory stick and get it into your PSP. The same goes for the DS and Wii. You're able to force access into the machine by using third party storage devices.

The fact of the matter is that if you close your system as much as possible, you make it that much harder to get all illegal on it. That won't stop pirates obviously, but making it even a little bit harder on them is probably justification enough for the big three.