Wii Hardware Upgrade Won't Happen Soon [Slashdot]

[j_factor]

If I sold my Wii and games, I'd have less games and less games that I enjoy. If that = hardcore then hardcore is an Orwellian term.

If you play too many Wii games, you will be sanctioned by the Ministry of Hardcore, or minihard.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I hear a rhythmic chorus in the alley, the Jackboots of the minihard are approaching. The sound is even and determined, without fear. If they stop at my door, I shall introduce them, roundly. RED SAUCE ON PASTA!

God, minihard. That made my night. :D

[Nature Boy]

Nintendo shouldn't upgrade the Wii because from a sales perspective, it won't make any difference.

Let me throw this out there: why have they updated the DS twice, even as they have dominated handheld sales? And there's another update forthcoming, isn't there?

(The answer is, of course, so they could sell more units).

Personally I don't see every Wii owner running out to buy a WiiHD in the same way the rabid masses updated their DSs to the Lite (or the DSi), so although HD *might* be part of an updated Wii, it certainly wouldn't be the focus of it.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Well, if they include an HDTV with the WiiHD, then the situations are more comparable. The DS screens got better, not on the resolution side, but backlighting and size. You can sign me up for a WiiHD with TV included for $250 or less. Even if the screen is a tiny 19".

[BetaWolf47]

What's the point anyways? There doesn't exist a single Wii game that is programmed to output more than 480p.

[swlovinist]

Basically same here. Anyone, "anyone" who thinks hardcore gaming is about HD or they mix up graphics in general with the hardcore concept needs to get a cat scan.

I am sick of people calling every POS game that comes out, which has HD/mad graphics hardcore, and everything else "casual", even when alot of such game are far from casual.

Agree. The whole "Wii sucks and it has shitty graphics" thing is getting old. Like others I own all three and the Wii has some pretty games, as well as some gems that are exclusive. The new Super Mario Bros. game is a perfect example of a great wii game, classic appeal, with challenging gameplay. Oh, and 10 million have been sold already since December. People will pan on other systems like it is an attack on their religion or politics.

[TonyTheTiger]

If I sold my Wii and games, I'd have less games and less games that I enjoy. If that = hardcore then hardcore is an Orwellian term. I'd rather go by "Jack Thompson" gamer at that point. Reverse the poles and you win... YAY!

I don't get it either. What's the value of "hardcore" when it means that you point out all the games you won't play? Granted, a brand of pompous jackass can be found in any subset of the general gaming populace. As much as you have the Halo guys claiming "harcore visuals and blazing guns" as the pinnacle of gaming greatness all the while lambasting "that anime shit" you have just as many people who do the exact opposite, claiming Atlus and NIS are God's gift to the gaming world providing beautiful Japanese artistry while the "lessers" are busy shooting people in another cookie cutter World War II game.

[chrisbid]

What's the point anyways? There doesn't exist a single Wii game that is programmed to output more than 480p.


no, but an upgraded console could play new titles in higher resolutions

[acem77]

The wii with its low rez shovel ware is just getting sad.
With every good game on wii I think how nice it would been if it was on true next gen hardware.
The repackage GameCube with motion controls is getting old fast.
When I buy present day electronics I prefer it to have the most up to date tech.
The wii is weaker than the original xbox lol.
If it was not for the 1st party support id have almost no need for a wii.
I guess that’s the case for most Nintendo systems.

I love all levels of gaming old and new school.
A lot of people on this forum act like they are tone deaf 80 years old with cataracts and dementia.
But again it’s a forum mainly for classic gaming.....?
Don’t fear change welcome it.
Don’t slow others down there are plenty of classic systems to play on your SD tvs.

[Leo_A]

What's the point anyways? There doesn't exist a single Wii game that is programmed to output more than 480p.no, but an upgraded console could play new titles in higher resolutions

Check out the Dolphin emulator someday to see how good GameCube and Wii games could look. It renders (Or upscales, I'm unsure which) GameCube and Wii games in HD and adds anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering. And the games look amazing and far better than they do on original hardware as a result.

I see no reason why a Wii HD couldn't be designed to bring similar improvements to existing software while allowing new games to be natively HD.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7384/windwaker1280x9608xqcsawx8.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/34eoj6c.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/defferoo/SPM2.png
http://i42.tinypic.com/w87y3d.jpg
http://up.ppy.sh/files/braaaaaaawl.png

[Press_Start]

Of course, Reggie is right in saying its too soon cause Wii just started the 4th year!

Sheesh! We got two whole years....at least! :roll:



I see no reason why a Wii HD couldn't be designed to bring similar improvements to existing software while allowing new games to be natively HD.

There's a guy who frequently stops by South Jersey Classic. He develops video games for a living. One day, the subject of high-definition came up and he had this interesting bit (and I'm paraphrasing here): "Developers think HD....is a pain in the ass!"

Seriously, the "hardcore" think it's looks so great on the consumer end but rarely do they talk from the developing end like money, time, and especially cost. Thanks to HD, the production has skyrocketed by millions a.k.a. raises the "break even" bar relatively high. Not to mention on the hardware side, the ones who've taken HD step lost billions this generation.

A smart move by Nintendo jumping on a new control scheme and broadening their audience. It'll be a smart move again for them to wait for the HDTV become cheaper and more affordable for the market to saturate.


The wii with its low rez shovel ware is just getting sad.
With every good game on wii I think how nice it would been if it was on true next gen hardware.
The repackage GameCube with motion controls is getting old fast.
When I buy present day electronics I prefer it to have the most up to date tech.
The wii is weaker than the original xbox lol.
If it was not for the 1st party support id have almost no need for a wii.
I guess that’s the case for most Nintendo systems.

I love all levels of gaming old and new school.
A lot of people on this forum act like they are tone deaf 80 years old with cataracts and dementia.
But again it’s a forum mainly for classic gaming.....?
Don’t fear change welcome it.
Don’t slow others down there are plenty of classic systems to play on your SD tvs.

Wow. Arrogance, ignorance, and hypocrisy. All in one post. Nice job. :roll:

[danny_galaga]

Well, I got a joy-gasm or two from them.

Don't you mean GOREGASM ? (",)

[danny_galaga]

Owned by Sony? News to me! (http://www.blu-raydisc.com/en/about/SupportingCompanies.html)

According to Wikipedia, it was developed by Sony. Would Nintendo use it? Would Sony let them? The Gamecube didn't use DVD tech either, because it would mean going through Sony...

[Icarus Moonsight]

"I see no reason why a Wii HD couldn't be designed to bring similar improvements to existing software while allowing new games to be natively HD."

Leo: 100% with you there. But, the context of time must be observed. We're not there yet.

I'm going to assume that the Dolphin emu requires high-level PC hardware. And even with that, Metroid is operating at 46 FPS... I'll take 60 frames of 480p over that any day of the week. Making a console of similar power (or further out, sufficient power to operate full speed) that doesn't have a related/compatible architecture where some sort of emulation would be required is a long way out among the console platforms. I mean, PS3 Slims do a good portion of PS1 well, but how about PS2?

[j_factor]

Check out the Dolphin emulator someday to see how good GameCube and Wii games could look. It renders (Or upscales, I'm unsure which) GameCube and Wii games in HD and adds anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering. And the games look amazing and far better than they do on original hardware as a result.

That's not really a viable solution, though. At least not if you want near-100% compatibility.

[FayeC86]

I have not bought a Wii game since Mario Kart in April of 08 i believe. Now most of that is due to playing games on other systems, but when I do look at whats available on Wii the overall developer effort seems horrible. The only thing that seems anywhere near on the level of 360 and PS3 games are the Nintendo developed titles. Many of my favorite developers (Sega, Square Enix, Capcom) seem incapable of delivering on the hardware.

As much as Wii has disappointed me, I have found it better than Gamecube.(Most of the time, this was a SSBM player, the remainder of the time it was simply a GBA.) So its very hard to say its not an upgrade from that.

[MarioMania]

According to Wikipedia, it was developed by Sony. Would Nintendo use it? Would Sony let them? The Gamecube didn't use DVD tech either, because it would mean going through Sony...

Then why the Xbox & Xbox 360 has DVD??

[Famidrive-16]

Yeah I suppose you're right. Look at GTA: Chinatown Wars and Dead Space, they sold like shit on the DS and Wii.

Didn't Chinatown Wars sell much worse on the PSP though?

[acem77]

"I see no reason why a Wii HD couldn't be designed to bring similar improvements to existing software while allowing new games to be natively HD."

Leo: 100% with you there. But, the context of time must be observed. We're not there yet.

I'm going to assume that the Dolphin emu requires high-level PC hardware. And even with that, Metroid is operating at 46 FPS... I'll take 60 frames of 480p over that any day of the week. Making a console of similar power (or further out, sufficient power to operate full speed) that doesn't have a related/compatible architecture where some sort of emulation would be required is a long way out among the console platforms. I mean, PS3 Slims do a good portion of PS1 well, but how about PS2?


Id take 30 fps at 720p or better over 60 at 480 any day, those emu screens look great.
why not go for 240p at 120fps....???

seems like people defending the wii are the target group that nintendo had in mind yawn.....
I guess we should just have stuck with b&w mono tv with rf adpters and games developed for that hardware....

games would retail for 10 cents and systems would be $5.
dev cost would be a few $100s.

what a great fun we could be having......

[FayeC86]

Didn't Chinatown Wars sell much worse on the PSP though?

I would imagine so. The game is a port on a system that already had 2 GTA games that played to the systems strengths better than GTA:CW. That's like noting that GTA:LCS sold worse than Vice City or something.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Id take 30 fps at 720p or better over 60 at 480 any day, those emu screens look great.
why not go for 240p at 120fps....???

seems like people defending the wii are the target group that nintendo had in mind yawn.....
I guess we should just have stuck with b&w mono tv with rf adpters and games developed for that hardware....

games would retail for 10 cents and systems would be $5.
dev cost would be a few $100s.

what a great fun we could be having......

Because the human eye can't tell the difference past 60 frames. It's waste. Some might not notice much down to 30, some can. You can definitely tell on the input side though.

You do realize you are conversing with people that enthusiastically do the very things you're poo-pooing yes?
:drinking:

[Leo_A]

According to Wikipedia, it was developed by Sony. Would Nintendo use it? Would Sony let them? The Gamecube didn't use DVD tech either, because it would mean going through Sony...

Sony is a major partner in Blu-Ray, but don't control it. The Blu-ray Disc Association controls the format and Sony is just one of many companies that are directors in the consortium (Wikipedia list 20 firms as having a board of directors position, with dozens more having a position as contributors).

The GameCube used DVD technology (GCN disc are based on miniDVD technology). They just didn't want to pay the DVD Forum for a license to enable DVD video playback (Which is why the Wii also doesn't play DVD's, although the hardware is fully capable of doing so). The GameCube eventually did get DVD video functionality with a new model released later in Japan (Which I forget the name of). Also, Sony doesn't control the DVD format. It's an independent organization called the DVD Forum that controls the technology, standards, and licensing for DVD technology.

Nintendo is free to license either technology, just as any other company is.


"I see no reason why a Wii HD couldn't be designed to bring similar improvements to existing software while allowing new games to be natively HD."

Leo: 100% with you there. But, the context of time must be observed. We're not there yet.

I'm going to assume that the Dolphin emu requires high-level PC hardware. And even with that, Metroid is operating at 46 FPS... I'll take 60 frames of 480p over that any day of the week. Making a console of similar power (or further out, sufficient power to operate full speed) that doesn't have a related/compatible architecture where some sort of emulation would be required is a long way out among the console platforms. I mean, PS3 Slims do a good portion of PS1 well, but how about PS2?

Valid points, but not necessarily as daunting as it sounds. The GameCube/Wii technology is essentially about a decade old. Whose to say they couldn't cheaply integrate the critical chips for GCN/Wii hardware into a Wii HD (Similar to how the PS2 achieved PSOne compatibility in it's earlier days and PS2 compatibility was achieved in early models of the PS3), with the Wii HD hardware itself just doing various things like upscaling and applying AA and AF to the video output? Doesn't have to be done through emulation.

Also, Nintendo has a massive advantage if it ever decided to create a emulator for this console. They have full information, design documents, etc., that would allow them to design a much more efficient emulator that would work with much lower hardware requirements than someone programming a PC program in their spare time. The high hardware requirements for PC emulation just might be misleading.

Look at the GameCube emulating something like Ocarina of Time for one example. You needed a PC much more powerful than any GameCube to emulate the N64 and a game like OoT at full speed, especially in the earlier days of N64 emulation. Nintendo has the advantage of having full information on the inner working's of their hardware, professional programmers, and employees that could be assigned to the task full time rather than someone that does it as a hobby in their spare time like many PC emulators. The result is their efforts are potentially much more efficient and accurate with far less demanding hardware requirements.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Brute force is a consideration... Ok, but my question is; Why not just use a hardware upscaler external to the Wii to resample your signal to what you want? I get 640,480 on a VGA from an upconverted S-Vid/Composite signal... Before HDTVs were mainstream market and Progressive Scan was still infrequently used. I was inspired by my Dreamcast to bring the rest of my game systems to VGA. It looked good to me. I paid $70 years ago for this... I know the RGBX2 and such are more expensive (2-3 hundred IIRC), but they are ubercool (remote control FTW!) and accept a bunch of input types and output practically anything a aspiring Wii HD owner could want... Or so I'd think. That seems to be the better solution, and one you don't have to pray for at the altar of Nintendo or the Emu Scene for either. :D

[Leo_A]

More is being done through that emulator that provides so much benefit to the picture quality than just upscaling. Anti-Aliasing, Anisotropic Filtering, Bi/Trilinear Filtering, etc.

If Nintendo were to bring some of those benefits to the Wii's successor if it has backwards compatibility with the GCN/Wii, count me in.

At the end of the day, I think those screenshots look great and I wish my GCN and Wii games looked like that. When Nintendo goes HD with the Wii's successor, I hope it's BC and provides at least some of these benefits to existing games.

[kupomogli]

Oh, and 10 million have been sold already since December. People will pan on other systems like it is an attack on their religion or politics.

It's not that NSMB Wii is so much better than other games, it's that it's; Mario(probably the biggest name in gaming, period,) first 2d Mario released on a home console in over a decade, and a good first party title on a system that is lacking good titles. It's kind of obvious that it's going to have huge sales.

But yeah. NSMB Wii is another game I'm going to pick up once I get a Wii.

I'm also assuming that the Wii HD being released would force Nintendo to do a price drop on the current console. If that's the case I can see why they don't want to release it. Because just think of this. Nintendo releases Wii HD and it's $299, $349, or even $599(hueg enemy crab.) Nintendo would not have the advantage of having the cheapest looking system. If they released it for $250 then what about the $250 price of the current Wii? I can guarantee Nintendo doesn't like that idea. Nintendo doesn't like price drops. We might not even see a HD Nintendo system until next console as if they happened to release the system as HD it would probably cut into their profits even selling it at $250.

Anyways. I've never played any older games such as NES, Genesis, SNES, etc on my HDTV, so I really don't know how it looks. I have played a PS2 game and with the backwards compatible PS3 upscaling the games to 1080p, it looks better on most games. Try playing Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 on a standard TV and then play it upscaled on the PS3. Not sure about the Wii at 480p how much better it'll look, but looks absolutely amazing at 1080p upscaled.

So. Most likely. The Wii doesn't need to upgrade unless you're extremely picky. It's got better graphics than the PS2 I'm sure 480p would look great regardless. I also only own a 40 inch HDTV so it's not going to stretch the image too much.

[Icarus Moonsight]

More is being done through that emulator that provides so much benefit to the picture quality than just upscaling. Anti-Aliasing, Anisotropic Filtering, Bi/Trilinear Filtering, etc.

If Nintendo were to bring some of those benefits to the Wii's successor if it has backwards compatibility with the GCN/Wii, count me in.

At the end of the day, I think those screenshots look great and I wish my GCN and Wii games looked like that. When Nintendo goes HD with the Wii's successor, I hope it's BC and provides at least some of these benefits to existing games.

Now that you've made a distinction between Wii HD (a mid-cycle incremental upgrade) and Nintendo's next console, after Wii, here... *double thumbs-up* BC is too delicious not to like that. :D

Kupo: Wii started retailing for $199 for the holiday sale months. Most likely contributed to their record smash 2 million unit sold week.

[kupomogli]

I'd like to see a side by side screen comparison of Wind Waker running regular 480i(or 480p if it can run it,) in comparison to upscaled 720p. Is that all the Dolphin can scale to or can it go higher? I did find this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG9rN1zMNd0

*edit*

While it doesn't show much of a difference in Wind Waker because it is already clear and there's really not much shading to the game and it's mainly single colored, you can definitely tell the difference with Super Mario Sunshine and Resident Evil 4. Although it could be Youtube's quality degrading too. From 480p to 720p you can only tell the difference slightly, wouldn't matter if the game could support 720p if you ask me. However going from 480p to 1080p, you can tell the difference. Not by some extraordinary amount, but still it's noticeable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX7z1bH_YNE&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3L8rjl5jzM

[danny_galaga]

Then why the Xbox & Xbox 360 has DVD??

Sorry, i meant Gamecube didn't use CD technology, which Sony did.
Nintendo and Sony had a huge falling out. That's when Sony developed the Playstation. Nintendo tried a partnership with Phillips (joint developers of the CD) but that was a failure. So they went with something else again, from Matsushita.

[Bojay1997]

Sorry, i meant Gamecube didn't use CD technology, which Sony did.
Nintendo and Sony had a huge falling out. That's when Sony developed the Playstation. Nintendo tried a partnership with Phillips (joint developers of the CD) but that was a failure. So they went with something else again, from Matsushita.

You do realize that CD and DVD technology is controlled by a consortium of companies and includes other forms of optical discs, including the format Nintendo used for the Gamecube, right? Sony still benefitted in some small way from every Gamecube sold.

[Zap!]

You do realize that CD and DVD technology is controlled by a consortium of companies and includes other forms of optical discs, including the format Nintendo used for the Gamecube, right? Sony still benefitted in some small way from every Gamecube sold.

Sony didn't invent the CD format, Phillips did. They didn't invent the DVD format either. Sony did not benefit one bit off GC technology.

[Leo_A]

Sony is one of the 10 founding members of the DVD Forum.

The profits from licensing and such have to go somewhere. I presume the companies that have a stake in the DVD Forum, such as the founders, are also the shareholders of the organization and thus profit off it.

I doubt everything the DVD Forum recieves in membership fees, licensing, and so on is kicked back into things like research and development.


Sorry, i meant Gamecube didn't use CD technology, which Sony did.
Nintendo and Sony had a huge falling out. That's when Sony developed the Playstation. Nintendo tried a partnership with Phillips (joint developers of the CD) but that was a failure. So they went with something else again, from Matsushita.

Of course the GameCube didn't use cd technology, they used DVD technology. Sony doesn't control CD's, DVD's, or Blu-Ray and Nintendo has never been persuaded away from any of these formats because of it. In fact, the past two Nintendo consoles have utilized the DVD format, just without enabling video playback as a cost savings.

You don't seem to understand that Sony is just one of many large corporations with a stake in media formats like Blu-Ray, which are controlled by independent industry associations with many partners. These organizations are designed to exchange ideas about their respective formats, develop industry standards, improve the technology, promote the acceptance of their technology across the industry, with membership and licensing opportunities being available to any firm that wants to conduct research and development on the format, or manufacturers that want to utilize the format in their products.

[Rob2600]

Sony didn't invent the CD format, Phillips did.

From what I understand, it was a joint effort.


Sony did not benefit one bit off GC technology.

To my knowledge, this seems true.

[danny_galaga]

From what I understand, it was a joint effort.



To my knowledge, this seems true.

Word.