Do different Genesis Model 1 systems have better / worse video output?

[Kitsune Sniper]

I recently purchased a second Genesis console (intended for part of a trade which will most likely not come to pass) and while testing it, I noticed something odd.

The video quality was a lot better than my other Genesis' video quality. The video seemed a lot less blurry than my other system.

The only difference was that this new Genesis appears to be a pre-lockout (TMSS) system with an EXT port, and my older one is a post-lockout system without a port. I'm playing with a standard A/V cable, not RF.

So was I imagining things? Or is there really a video quality difference between the two?

[Aussie2B]

There is. I don't know if there are any useful topics on this board regarding the matter, but I found this very informative:

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?p=161951

[BetaWolf47]

Oh dear fuck, you wouldn't believe how many different kinds of Genesis systems there really are. Most people think that there's only model 1, model 2, model 3, X'Eye, and CDX, but it gets far, far more complicated.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7796

There's even some variants that people don't know about. Most likely, your new one is a model 1 VA7.

On a side note, I have a model 1 VA7 and a model 2 VA3. Both are unknown variants - they have the Sony CXA1145 video encoder.

<EDIT> Gah, beaten to the guide.

[Kitsune Sniper]

There's even some variants that people don't know about. Most likely, your new one is a model 1 VA7.

Wait, my newer, BETTER one is the crappy one?

[BetaWolf47]

No, I jumped the gun. Your non-TMSS system is the better one. How's the audio on each of them? It's a weird case sometimes: some variants have good video and bad audio, and vice-versa.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I honestly don't know.

I hated the Genesis' audio when I was a kid, and it doesn't sound any better now. :p

[Ace]

I see someone found my guide on Sega-16.

Now, on a Genesis Model 1, the picture quality is the same, however, the non-TMSS models contain some really cheap capacitors that are starting to dry up. This has caused some sound problems on one of my non-TMSS Genesis Model 1s(both VA3s), and there's a possibility it also causes "rainbow banding," where thick vertical rainbow-colored strips appear on the screen. Both of my non-TMSS Genesis Model 1s and my Japanese MegaDrive Model 1(VA5 motherboard) show signs of rainbow banding. The VA7 Genesis Model 1 is the big turd, and up in my part of Canada(Montreal), it's the most common Genesis Model 1 there is. I either find that or a non-TMSS model. I haven't seen a VA6 Genesis Model 1 aside from my modified VA6 in a LONG time.

But the Genesis Model 2 in general sucks. Most revisions sound like absolute crap(VA0, VA1, VA1.8), can't get the volume balance correct(VA2, VA4(to a lesser extent and easier to fix)), and have absolutely rotten Composite video. I tell you: out of about 50 different Genesis Model 2s I've come across, only 2 had good video AND audio quality. While the ones that sound like absolute crap can get better sound using a new sound circuit developed by Sega-16's Genesis modding guru TmEE, there is no way to fix the bad video unless you get a new video encoder, which, on the Genesis 2, is a small surface-mounted chip, and replacing those is a real hassle.

Could you take a picture of your two Genesis systems(front, back, and if you have a Genesis 2, the bottom)?

[Kitsune Sniper]

I don't have a Genesis 2 (I used to but I think I gave it away). And both my Genesis 1s have the EXT port on the back. How difficult is it to fix the capacitors on these? I didn't have any issues with rainbow banding on this system.

[Ace]

Electrolytic capacitors are fairly easy to replace. However, there isn't a list of all the various capacitors on the Genesis Model 1 anywhere, so I'll compile a list of capacitors you need. I won't be able to do so now, but when I can, I'll open up my Genesis Model 1s(take a picture of the motherboards in your Genesis Model 1s so I know which ones to open up; I've got a few different Genesis Model 1s here) and make a list of all the capacitors on the motherboard.

[RASK1904]

Very Informative thread. Thanx. I have a Model 1 HD without the TTM. Plays and sounds great. I will watch for the rainbowing now of course.

I guess the one with it would be a little better becuase of the rainbowing. But I picked it up years ago without any of this knowledge. Could have done worse.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Electrolytic capacitors are fairly easy to replace. However, there isn't a list of all the various capacitors on the Genesis Model 1 anywhere, so I'll compile a list of capacitors you need. I won't be able to do so now, but when I can, I'll open up my Genesis Model 1s(take a picture of the motherboards in your Genesis Model 1s so I know which ones to open up; I've got a few different Genesis Model 1s here) and make a list of all the capacitors on the motherboard.

Oh, don't bother on my account. I can't fix anything, I don't know how to solder. :p

I'll see what I can do. :)

[DuckTalesNES]

So bottom line, what is the best version? If I was going to own a single sega genesis for playing games on, which should I own?

[PSony]

As long as you don't get a VA7 model 1, you're good to go. The VA7's sound as bad as most of the model 2's.

[DuckTalesNES]

So there's no difference between the ones with "high definition graphics" and those without as long as the ones without aren't a VA7 model?

[megasdkirby]

Fantastic guide.

I have a few Model 1 units, and I just verified that I have the TMSS one, but with motherboard VA6.

I also have a Model 2, but since I rarely used it, I could not make a difference to a Model 1.

Does anyone have sound bytes to compare them to?

[chrisbid]

so this leads to question 2

if you have a higher quality stock genesis, do you lose the higher quality output by attaching a sega cd or 32x?

[Mason P.]

i believe the 32x has the TMSS chip on it. So if you have a non-TMSS system, it basicly makes you have one, unless you unhook the 32x everytime you use it.

[PSony]

The ones that have "High Definition Graphics" on the casing are guaranteed not to have a VA7 board (since only early models have HDG and VA7 is the latest model 1), so all HDG models have good sound. There are some that don't have HDG but still have good sound. I've heard the early models have a rainbow banding issue but I mainly care about the sound quality.

HDG model = good sound
non-HDG model, but still has the space where the EXT port used to be = also good sound
non-HDG model, and the space where the EXT port used to be is occupied by CH3/CH4 switch = bad sound

FCC ID: FJ846EUSASEGA = non-TMSS (only on early HDG models)
FCC ID: FJ8USASEGA = TMSS (all models can have this, even HDG models)

TMSS doesn't matter as much since you can get around that with a Game Genie. All official Genesis systems after the early model 1's have this (model 2, model 3, 32X, CDX, and probably X'EYE).

So if you want to get a model 1 with good sound, get one where the CH3/CH4 switch doesn't occupy the space where the EXT port is, or one with the EXT port. If you don't want TMSS, check the FCC ID on the bottom.

[Ace]

i believe the 32x has the TMSS chip on it. So if you have a non-TMSS system, it basicly makes you have one, unless you unhook the 32x everytime you use it.

That's not true. If you plug in a 32X into a non-TMSS console, it will still boot straight to the game, not spew out the PRODUCED BY OR UNDER LICENSE FROM SEGA ENTERPRISES LTD. screen. TMSS is within the Genesis, not its add-ons(they have their own BIOSes).


so this leads to question 2

if you have a higher quality stock genesis, do you lose the higher quality output by attaching a sega cd or 32x?

No. In fact, the 32X has its own video encoder, meaning that the Genesis' native Composite output is completely bypassed. Instead, the Genesis' RGB outputs are fed into the 32X, mixed with the 32X's video, and then encoded into Composite and fed straight out as RGB. The quality isn't as good as a Genesis with a CXA1645 encoder, but if you have a Genesis 2 with the KA2195D, it's a MUST to have a 32X. The difference in video quality is like night and day. This also eliminates the rainbow banding on any Genesis Model 1, but it's not a proper fix for what could very well be a capacitor problem.

As for the sound, on a Genesis Model 1, the quality doesn't change regardless of whether you have a Sega CD attached or not. But on a Genesis 2, there's a good bit of difference. If you have one of those with nasty sound output, the sound will be filtered(all hissing is gone), but the sound will still strain a bit. If you have one with clearer sound, the sound will come out even clearer than off the Genesis' A/V out, but you lose bass like that(I like high bass, so I use the A/V out on my VA4 Genesis 2(or any other Genesis 2 I have attached to it save for my VA1s and VA1.8s) rather than the Line Out on the Sega CD I have attached to it).

EDIT: I just remembered something - one of my VA1 Genesis 2s suffers from the exact same rainbow banding as my VA3 Genesis Model 1s and VA5 MegaDrive Model 1, but to a much lesser extent. The rainbow banding could very well be caused by capacitors drying up. Only way to find out is to replace every capacitor in those systems.

[BetaWolf47]

Ah, I see the man himself has found this thread. Good guide by the way.


So bottom line, what is the best version? If I was going to own a single sega genesis for playing games on, which should I own?

That's in the eye of the beholder. I personally prefer VA3 or VA4 model 2 systems, since they SHOULD have the best video and really clear audio. Most people prefer non-TMSS model 1 units because of the higher bass, but I myself prefer clarity over good bass.

Only problem is if your system doesn't have the encoders it SHOULD, like how my model 2 VA3 has an 1145 instead of a 1645.

[Aussie2B]

I'm happy with my model 1 VA6. I remember when I first came across that guide I was scared that I had a VA7, so it was a relief when I checked the system out. It's got great sound and no rainbow banding, so that's good enough for me. I wish the Genesis had better composite in a general sense, though. Even the best that it can do still isn't so hot.

[BetaWolf47]

Model 2 systems that have the most advanced video encoder supposedly have great video output. Mine has one level below that, and it has rainbow banding. I'm not sure if that's due to the way it's filtered, or if the capacitors are going dry.

[Gameguy]

TMSS doesn't matter as much since you can get around that with a Game Genie.
It didn't work for me with my copy of Budokan, I only got it to work on a pre-TMSS model 1 system. I tried using a Game Genie with a Model 2 system but it didn't work.

[betamax001]

When I was reading this I was worried that my Genesis was a VA7, but it looks like its not : D I really don't use my Genesis all that much to make a difference. But it's nice to know the sound isn't garbage. I just need an A/V cable for it now. Though the RF works fine becuase I don't have any open any A/V slots on my TV.

[BetaWolf47]

Is it even possible to find AV cables for model 1 and model 2 in the wild nowadays? I've only ever seen the mono ones for model 3.

[Gameguy]

Is it even possible to find AV cables for model 1 and model 2 in the wild nowadays? I've only ever seen the mono ones for model 3.
Aren't the mono ones for a model 3 the same as mono ones for a Model 2? I've come across a few of these with various systems, but they're still hard to find. I've come across one stereo cable several years ago for the Model 2, and I've never come across a model 1 AV cable(which is mono). I'm only considering official cables, I know 3rd party ones are still sold online but I'm not interested in those.

[chrisbid]

Aren't the mono ones for a model 3 the same as mono ones for a Model 2? I've come across a few of these with various systems, but they're still hard to find. I've come across one stereo cable several years ago for the Model 2, and I've never come across a model 1 AV cable(which is mono). I'm only considering official cables, I know 3rd party ones are still sold online but I'm not interested in those.

yes, model 2 and model 3 cables are the same

and model 1 cables are the same as commodore cables

[Purkeynator]

What is TMSS exactly?

[Kitsune Sniper]

yes, model 2 and model 3 cables are the same

and model 1 cables are the same as commodore cables

Whoa, really?

Purkeynator: TMSS is a lockout method used by Sega after companies started releasing unlicensed games for the Genesis. It's basically a requirement that the games must have - they have to write "SEGA" to a certain part of memory for them to run. If it doesn't do that, then the system won't let it run.

[BetaWolf47]

yes, model 2 and model 3 cables are the same

and model 1 cables are the same as commodore cables

But they're not. From what I understand, model 2 and model 3 have different pinouts. It's really odd on model 3. One of the pins is mono audio, and one is stereo left. Then on model 2, it's stereo right and stereo left. The AV cable for model 3 only has yellow and white cords - one for video and one for mono audio.

I think I read this on the Sega-16 forums somewhere.

[Purkeynator]

Whoa, really?

Purkeynator: TMSS is a lockout method used by Sega after companies started releasing unlicensed games for the Genesis. It's basically a requirement that the games must have - they have to write "SEGA" to a certain part of memory for them to run. If it doesn't do that, then the system won't let it run.

Ah I see, so its similar to the Nintendo lockout chip then. Also that is why they say the very first Genesis is compatible with everything. Good to know, though I doubt there are many unlicensed titles worth owning.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Ah I see, so its similar to the Nintendo lockout chip then. Also that is why they say the very first Genesis is compatible with everything. Good to know, though I doubt there are many unlicensed titles worth owning.

After a while, unlicensed titles were compatible with this lockout method. It didn't work for long. :p

[Gameguy]

But they're not. From what I understand, model 2 and model 3 have different pinouts. It's really odd on model 3. One of the pins is mono audio, and one is stereo left. Then on model 2, it's stereo right and stereo left. The AV cable for model 3 only has yellow and white cords - one for video and one for mono audio.

I think I read this on the Sega-16 forums somewhere.
I was talking about the cables themselves. I've just checked the cables that came with my Model 3 system and I checked the mono cable that came with a Model 2 system, they both have the same pins in the connector. With the mono cable there's just 2 pins used in total. The same mono cable also came with the 32X system, I suppose you could use the Model 2 mono AV cable with a Model 1 system if you have the converter that came with the 32X system.

The Model 2 systems are compatible with either mono or stereo output, the Model 3 really just has mono output.

I'd also like to point out that the Model 1 AV cable is also the same as the Sega Master System AV cable.

[PSony]

It didn't work for me with my copy of Budokan, I only got it to work on a pre-TMSS model 1 system. I tried using a Game Genie with a Model 2 system but it didn't work.

I don't know what to tell you. Budokan and Populous works on my non-TMSS model 1's, and TMSS model 1's/model 2's with Game Genie.

[Gameguy]

I don't know what to tell you. Budokan and Populous works on my non-TMSS model 1's, and TMSS model 1's/model 2's with Game Genie.
I'm assuming you didn't enter any codes either. The Game Genie booted up, but when I pressed start to begin the game the screen went and stayed black. I don't know why, I also don't have Budokan anymore so I can't try again either.

I've heard some people use another game to get by the lockout, they start the Genesis with another game and pull it out while it's still on. Then insert the unlicensed game and press reset. I haven't tried it because I don't want to risk damaging my system, but that's what I heard was also possible.

[PSony]

I'm assuming you didn't enter any codes either. The Game Genie booted up, but when I pressed start to begin the game the screen went and stayed black. I don't know why, I also don't have Budokan anymore so I can't try again either.

I've heard some people use another game to get by the lockout, they start the Genesis with another game and pull it out while it's still on. Then insert the unlicensed game and press reset. I haven't tried it because I don't want to risk damaging my system, but that's what I heard was also possible.

No codes. I just tried Budokan on my model 2 and it even works with the Game Genie plugged into the 32X.

[Ace]

The Model 2 systems are compatible with either mono or stereo output, the Model 3 really just has mono output.

A little note about that: if you use a Stereo A/V cable on a Genesis 3, you will only get sound off the white cable, again, in Mono only. You will not get any sound off the red cable. Just figured I'd let you know in case you didn't know.

[BetaWolf47]

I still want to know why stereo AV cables for either model are so hard to find in the wild.

[Gameguy]

A little note about that: if you use a Stereo A/V cable on a Genesis 3, you will only get sound off the white cable, again, in Mono only. You will not get any sound off the red cable. Just figured I'd let you know in case you didn't know.
I didn't know that, I assumed the same mono sound would be coming out of both audio cables. The Nomad has stereo sound though, right? I know a Nomad can be hooked up to a TV with Model 2 style cables. Is it the same with the CDX or X'EYE?


I still want to know why stereo AV cables for either model are so hard to find in the wild.
Few people bought it, most people just stuck with what came with the system. The mono cables came with the Model 3 or 32X which is why they're more common.

[Purkeynator]

Can't you just get one of those Y splitter cables and split your white audio cable into two cables for sound from both speakers. I know it wouldn't give you true stereo but you would still get the same sound from both speakers.

[Baloo]

No codes. I just tried Budokan on my model 2 and it even works with the Game Genie plugged into the 32X.

You got the Game Genie to work through a 32X? I've heard that you can't use Game Genies through the 32x.

[Ace]

I still want to know why stereo AV cables for either model are so hard to find in the wild.

I think Sega sold them via mail-order only, kinda like what NEC did with the TurboGrafx Super System Card(and why it's so rare and expensive nowadays). Lots of aftermarket cables are available nowadays. I'm using one of those on my Sega CDX, but I will warn you that if you get an aftermarket Stereo A/V cable, audio left and audio right are swapped. The left audio signal comes off the RED cable and the right audio signal comes off the WHITE cable.


The Nomad has stereo sound though, right? I know a Nomad can be hooked up to a TV with Model 2 style cables. Is it the same with the CDX or X'EYE?

The Nomad produced both Stereo and Mono off the A/V out. It's the same with the CDX, but I think the X'Eye could either have a multi-A/V out, standard Composite jacks, or both. Someone fill me in on that.

[PSony]

You got the Game Genie to work through a 32X? I've heard that you can't use Game Genies through the 32x.

It works perfectly fine. The only systems of mine that don't work with Game Genies are the Genesis 3, GenMobile, and Retrogen. I don't remember if it works with the Nomad or not; I never use that thing.

[Gameguy]

I think Sega sold them via mail-order only, kinda like what NEC did with the TurboGrafx Super System Card(and why it's so rare and expensive nowadays). Lots of aftermarket cables are available nowadays. I'm using one of those on my Sega CDX, but I will warn you that if you get an aftermarket Stereo A/V cable, audio left and audio right are swapped. The left audio signal comes off the RED cable and the right audio signal comes off the WHITE cable.
I dug through boxes to find my official stereo cable that's in the original box, it has a price sticker from Radio Shack and it was $19.99. I was very lucky to find it a few years ago locally, I could barely make out Radio Shack on the sticker as it's very light but it's there.


It works perfectly fine. The only systems of mine that don't work with Game Genies are the Genesis 3, GenMobile, and Retrogen. I don't remember if it works with the Nomad or not; I never use that thing.
Maybe it depends on the model of Game Genie, I remember there being several different ones made over the years. Though I have several Game Genies I only tried one to get Budokan working. I really don't use Game Genies too often.

[DuckTalesNES]

How does the sound and video output for genesis games on the CDX compare to the genesis console???

[Baloo]

How does the sound and video output for genesis games on the CDX compare to the genesis console???

I heard it doesn't have as good video output or sound as the Model 1, but better than the Model 2.

[wingzrow]

Which version do I have? Mine doesn't have the high definition mark on the top. Seeing all this has me worried. Does my version of the model one have bad sound and other problems? If mine is actually the worst model then I might have to have another genesis modded for S-video. I'm hoping the modding made it sound better since the stereo on my system was re routed from the headphone jack in the front to the jacks in the back.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6301/p1010776h.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5402/p1010775c.jpg

[Ace]

Maybe it depends on the model of Game Genie, I remember there being several different ones made over the years. Though I have several Game Genies I only tried one to get Budokan working. I really don't use Game Genies too often.

Game Genie compatibility problems have nothing to do with different production runs of the cartridge. The Game Genie uses one more pin than a standard Genesis cartridge, pin B19(Clock). If that pin is disconnected, the Game Genie will keep resetting itself. On the Genesis 3, pin B19 is disconnected, so the Game Genie keeps resetting itself when you try to load the game that you locked onto the cartridge.


How does the sound and video output for genesis games on the CDX compare to the genesis console???

The video on the CDX is slightly pixelated, dull and dark, but there's none of that line noise BS from the vast majority of Genesis Model 2s(it's not as good as a Genesis Model 1, which, while blurry, looks very nice with some good color saturation). The sound is the clearest of all Genesis systems I've ever come across, however, it's quieter than all the other models of the Genesis.


Which version do I have? Mine doesn't have the high definition mark on the top. Seeing all this has me worried. Does my version of the model one have bad sound and other problems? If mine is actually the worst model then I might have to have another genesis modded for S-video. I'm hoping the modding made it sound better since the stereo on my system was re routed from the headphone jack in the front to the jacks in the back.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6301/p1010776h.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5402/p1010775c.jpg

I hate to say this, but your Genesis Model 1 sucks. You have one with a VA7 motherboard. Good video, but HORRIBLE audio(muffled, distorted, "hissy," I can't stand it).

[wingzrow]

Just boosted up the sound on my system while playing pulseman to see if I could hear this hissing you're talking about and I think I notice it now. Son of a bitch...can you believe I have TWO of this same exact model?

So which of the 4 model 1s is the one to get then? What should I be looking for?

EDIT: loaded up pulseman on my wii genesis emulator and it has the same sound so I may have been over reacting. It's hard to tell with nothing to compare it to.

[BetaWolf47]

Try headphones. That's where you should hear the biggest difference.

With the RCA outputs, if you can't hear buzzing on high volume, that's one hell of a good mod.

[MachineGex]

I think Sega sold them via mail-order only...


I called Sega back in '91 trying to find the A/V cable. I remember they gave me a phone number to some place in the state of Washington(I think). They were $15.99 or something like that. Ended up being over $20 shipped. I wish I would have kept that system, I even got the mail-in Sega stereo speakers. OHHHHH...the good old days....

[Gameguy]

Game Genie compatibility problems have nothing to do with different production runs of the cartridge. The Game Genie uses one more pin than a standard Genesis cartridge, pin B19(Clock). If that pin is disconnected, the Game Genie will keep resetting itself. On the Genesis 3, pin B19 is disconnected, so the Game Genie keeps resetting itself when you try to load the game that you locked onto the cartridge.
Then I have no idea why Budokan works on PSony's consoles but not on any of mine except the Model 1 without a lockout chip.

[Ace]

NOTE: The Genesis has NO LOCKOUT CHIP. It's a BIOS that Sega put into the Genesis that intercepts cartridge data and pops up the PRODUCED BY OR UNDER LICENSE FROM SEGA ENTERPRISES LTD. if the cartridge writes "SEGA" to some part of the RAM. My guess is that Budokan is one of those early unlicensed titles that doesn't do that, so it won't work at all unless you use a Game Genie.


Just boosted up the sound on my system while playing pulseman to see if I could hear this hissing you're talking about and I think I notice it now. Son of a bitch...can you believe I have TWO of this same exact model?

So which of the 4 model 1s is the one to get then? What should I be looking for?

EDIT: loaded up pulseman on my wii genesis emulator and it has the same sound so I may have been over reacting. It's hard to tell with nothing to compare it to.

Dude, don't rely on emulation. No Genesis emulator gets the sound 100% correct. If you want a good Genesis Model 1, get one that says HIGH DEFINITION GRAPHICS or one like yours, but with the hookups like in this image:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7376/lateva6hookups.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7376/lateva6hookups.jpg)

Those contain older motherboards(VA6; HIGH DEFINITION GRAPHICS models can be anything from VA2 to VA6) with MUCH better sound circuits than the garbage Sega used on the VA7, which was later carried over to many Genesis 2s. But in order to be GUARANTEED a good system, get one that says HIGH DEFINITION GRAPHICS. BUT, I must warn you about something: the capacitors in those Genesis Model 1s are starting to dry up, so you need to replace them ASAP, otherwise, quite a few problems will occur(anything from distorted/dead sound to bad video, and sometimes electrical problems). Every Genesis is bound to do that one day or another, but since the Model 1 is the oldest, its capacitors will go out first, with the HIGH DEFINITION GRAPHICS models requiring new capacitors sooner because those were the earliest variants of the Genesis Model 1 circa 1989/1990.

[Flippy8490]

I have the model 1 non-tmss one. I noticed that my friends Model 2 sounded and looked worse than mine...now i know why! Thanks.

[ooXxXoo]

There are so many revisions of the Sega Genesis/MD,for sure (perhaps the system with the most revs. out there)....
But when it comes to the video quality among Genesises that have the CXA1145, I must say that the later systems with the smaller CXA1145 package, have better video and less noise for sure than the earlier ones....
...
...Just my 2 dineros....

[fahlim003]

While I find the article interesting, it's far from complete and as expected omits a lot about the MegaDrive (both Japan and Europe) spectrum. Even though I live in North America, I prefer MegaDrives (NTSC-J only) because of the cartridge slot not requiring any work. A small but fair reason that has sat with me for a long time. All the same if I were ever to do a mod, it would be on a MegaDrive and so far it seems like information on which to get in that regard is still a ways off. Pardon obtaining the TMEE mod, the only issue on MD2s is finding the CXA1645. Oh well.

I have a VA0 MegaDrive 2 made in Japan and with the CXA1145. I also use a 3rdpty decent stereo RCA cable while so far I haven't had too many complaints, perhaps I'm simply used to the crummy Genesis audio standard. I also have a HDG non-TMSS Genesis 1 VA3. I noticed the 'rainbow banding' and it seems to appear only occasionally, rather is perhaps only sometimes noticeable. I agree on the point it's not a huge concern, although I am using RF. Going from the guide, I'm nowhere as I don't have a VA6 Genesis 1 or a VA2, VA2.3, VA3, or VA4 Genesis 2, which is a shame but I suppose it's up to each individual to decide if it's really a problem or not if one doesn't have the ideal machine. I'm not crazy on modding so I guess it's disappointing, thankfully not to a point where I'll look for other machines. At least until I am compared quality between one and another to a point where it's truly significant.

[BetaWolf47]

Hmm, I need to find a model 3 Genesis now. With the best video and audio (weak bass audio, rather), and easy to find AV cables, seems quite ideal for me.

[DuckTalesNES]

Hmm, I need to find a model 3 Genesis now. With the best video and audio (weak bass audio, rather), and easy to find AV cables, seems quite ideal for me.

Wait, where did this come from? It seemed from everything I read that the model 1 genesis with "high-definition graphics" was the best.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I was playing The Terminator (Sega CD) on this system of mine and I finally noticed some of this rainbow banding. It's very slight... but it's there.

It still looks pretty awesome. :)

[buzz_n64]

Won't a Genesis with the 32x have better sound?

Or a JVC X'eye?

[Gameguy]

My guess is that Budokan is one of those early unlicensed titles that doesn't do that, so it won't work at all unless you use a Game Genie.
Of course that's the problem, I'm guessing you didn't bother to read the entire thread.

PSony used a Game Genie with no codes, plugged it into a Model 2 with a copy of Budokan...and it worked.
I used a Game Genie with no codes, plugged it into a Model 2 with a copy of Budokan...and it didn't work.

We both did the same thing yet it worked for him and didn't for me.



BUT, I must warn you about something: the capacitors in those Genesis Model 1s are starting to dry up, so you need to replace them ASAP, otherwise, quite a few problems will occur(anything from distorted/dead sound to bad video, and sometimes electrical problems). Every Genesis is bound to do that one day or another, but since the Model 1 is the oldest, its capacitors will go out first, with the HIGH DEFINITION GRAPHICS models requiring new capacitors sooner because those were the earliest variants of the Genesis Model 1 circa 1989/1990.
That's not as bad of a problem as you'd think, the main problem with capacitors going bad is with surface mounted capacitors. From the pics I've seen of the Genesis system boards they used regular capacitors, not surface mounted ones. Eventually the capacitors will go bad, but not so soon.

[Purkeynator]

Ace, were you still planning on making us a diagram with which capacitors to replace? Where do we buy the capacitors? Radioshack?

[Ace]

While I find the article interesting, it's far from complete and as expected omits a lot about the MegaDrive (both Japan and Europe) spectrum. Even though I live in North America, I prefer MegaDrives (NTSC-J only) because of the cartridge slot not requiring any work. A small but fair reason that has sat with me for a long time. All the same if I were ever to do a mod, it would be on a MegaDrive and so far it seems like information on which to get in that regard is still a ways off. Pardon obtaining the TMEE mod, the only issue on MD2s is finding the CXA1645. Oh well.

I have a VA0 MegaDrive 2 made in Japan and with the CXA1145. I also use a 3rdpty decent stereo RCA cable while so far I haven't had too many complaints, perhaps I'm simply used to the crummy Genesis audio standard. I also have a HDG non-TMSS Genesis 1 VA3. I noticed the 'rainbow banding' and it seems to appear only occasionally, rather is perhaps only sometimes noticeable. I agree on the point it's not a huge concern, although I am using RF. Going from the guide, I'm nowhere as I don't have a VA6 Genesis 1 or a VA2, VA2.3, VA3, or VA4 Genesis 2, which is a shame but I suppose it's up to each individual to decide if it's really a problem or not if one doesn't have the ideal machine. I'm not crazy on modding so I guess it's disappointing, thankfully not to a point where I'll look for other machines. At least until I am compared quality between one and another to a point where it's truly significant.

There's only one reason why I have no information on the European and Japanese MegaDrive, and that's because all I own is one revision of the Japanese MegaDrive Model 1. I need some people to fill in the gaps for European and Japanese MegaDrives.

[Purkeynator]

Any ideas what capacitors need replaced on a Genesis 1 model 1? I bought a cheap broken Genesis 1 on ebay to replace my crappy model 2. Apparently it powers on but shows only a black screen. My hope is to thoroughly clean the contacts and see if that works. If not I am considering the capacitor replacement.

[nebrazca78]

I'm assuming you didn't enter any codes either. The Game Genie booted up, but when I pressed start to begin the game the screen went and stayed black. I don't know why, I also don't have Budokan anymore so I can't try again either.

Are you sure everything was seated properly? That's also what happens when the game and the Game Genie are not making good contact.



I've heard some people use another game to get by the lockout, they start the Genesis with another game and pull it out while it's still on. Then insert the unlicensed game and press reset. I haven't tried it because I don't want to risk damaging my system, but that's what I heard was also possible.

Never do... what they do, what they do, what they do...

[nebrazca78]

All of this revision information has been very interesting to me. I thought there were a couple, maybe three revisions of the Model 2 Genesis but I never imagined there were so many. It seems there are probably even a few more that we don't yet know about.

Anyway, I have seven Model 2 Genesis consoles lying about the house so I decided to open them all up and see what is inside. I found a few interesting things. I will go ahead and post the specifics about each system and then specify what I thought was interesting about them at the end for potential discussion. This list is done in the order that I opened them up, which was random. No two were exactly alike.

Consoles with 3/4 boards:

#1
Made in Thailand - S/N 253055185
Board: VA3, MFG 5/94
VE: KA2195D
Shell MFG: 2/95
Screws: All silver
Weight: 24.6 oz

#2
Made in Japan (this is MK-1451)
Board: VA4, MFG C1996
VE: CXA1645M
Shell MFG: 2/98
Screws: All black
Weight: 23.2 oz
Works with Sega CD: Yes

Consoles with full boards:

#3
Made in Taiwan - S/N 63014449
Board: VA0, MFG 4/C1993
VE: KA2195D
Shell MFG: 5/93
Screws: Case=black, Board=gold
Weight: 25.7 oz

#4
Made in Japan - S/N R30493493
Board: VA1, MFG 7/C1993
VE: CXA1145M
Shell MFG: 9/93
Screws: All gold (unlike all the other ones these screws are all the same size)
Weight: 26 oz

#5
Made in Japan - S/N G30369781
Board: VA1, MFG 7/C1993
VE: CXA1145M
Shell MFG: 8/93
Screws: All gold
Weight: 25.6 oz

#6
Made in Taiwan - S/N 040101696
Board: VA1.8, MFG C1994
VE: KA2195D
Shell MFG: Unknown (very confusing date stamp, picture below)
Screws: Case=black, Board=gold
Weight: 26.3 oz

#7
Made in Thailand - S/N 240688450
Board: VA2, MFG C1994
VE: KA2195D
Shell MFG: 10/94
Screws: I got a phone call while looking at this one and I spaced on checking the screw color
Weight: 26.5 oz


The first thing that jumped right out at me was the MFG date of the #2 system's shell. It seems very late at 2/98. From what I've read this is almost definitely a Majesco unit. Not only that, but the fact that Majesco was still making new Genesis units in 1998 is cool! This one also has strange chalk markings all over the inside of the shell. Weird. Additionally this unit does work with the Sega CD.

Strangely there are no Chinese units. I thought these would be more prevalent. I was also surprised to find two units from Thailand, I thought these were more rare.

Unit #4 was the only one that had all screws of the same size. I think the holes are all made for both sizes of screws, they just used the larger screws if they run out of smaller ones. The smaller screws were probably cheaper.

The weights of all seven systems are different.

The guide says "nearly every single" VA0, VA1 and VA1.8 has the KA2195D video encoder. Both of my VA1s have the CXA1145M video encoder.




Here are the pictures:

#1
http://home.comcast.net/~mr.moto.x/253055185-1.jpg

#2
http://home.comcast.net/~mr.moto.x/majesco-1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~mr.moto.x/majesco-4.jpg

#3
http://home.comcast.net/~mr.moto.x/63014449-1.jpg

#4
http://home.comcast.net/~mr.moto.x/R30493493-1.jpg

#5
http://home.comcast.net/~mr.moto.x/G30369781-1.jpg

#6
http://home.comcast.net/~mr.moto.x/040101696-1.jpg

What the hell date is this supposed to represent?

http://home.comcast.net/~mr.moto.x/040101696-4.jpg

#7
http://home.comcast.net/~mr.moto.x/240688450-1.jpg

[nebrazca78]

I also have 19 Model 1 Genesis consoles lying around. I really didn't feel like opening them all up but it seems this is not really necessary for the Model 1's anyway. Apparently the Sony and Fujitsu video encoders are highly similar in output which is the only specific you would need to open one up to find out. But I did note all of the versions and where they were manufactured. Here's the info:


Non-TMSS HDG units (boards VA0-VA4) made in Taiwan - 5

(It surprised me that I have more of this version of the Model 1 than any other. Usually these are not so prevalent.)

TMSS Non-HDG units (board VA7) made in Taiwan - 4

TMSS HDG units (boards VA5-VA6) made in Japan - 3

TMSS HDG units (boards VA5-VA6) made in Taiwan - 2

TMSS Non-HDG units (board VA7) made in Japan - 2

TMSS Non-HDG units (boards VA6-VA6.8) made in Taiwan - 1

TMSS Non-HDG units (boards VA6-VA6.8) made in Japan - 1

TMSS Non-HDG units (boards VA6-VA6.8) made in China - 1

(The Chinese unit also has a sticker noting that it has been fully refurbished.)




.

[Ace]

Hey Nebrazca, would you be able to take a picture of your VA0 Genesis 2's cartridge slot held open? I'm missing pictures of the cartridge slot held open on the VA0 and VA2.3 Genesis 2(full motherboard Genesis 2s are easily identifiable by the board layout around the cartridge slot). Make sure the image is bright and at a very high resolution.

[nebrazca78]

No problem. I'm listing a bunch of games on eBay tonight but after I'm done I'll take the picture you want.

[Baloo]

Wait, where did this come from? It seemed from everything I read that the model 1 genesis with "high-definition graphics" was the best.

It is, go with that one.

[phaxda]

Wow, this thread is super-helpful. I just swapped out my crappy Sega system with one of the High Definition ones and the sound is so much better! I honestly had no idea there was any difference at all but the bass is way better now. Thanks!

[Gameguy]

Are you sure everything was seated properly? That's also what happens when the game and the Game Genie are not making good contact.
Yeah, I cleaned the contacts on both the Game Genie and the Budokan cart. I could use other games fine with the Game Genie but not Budokan, I went and dug out my Model 1 so I could test it and it worked fine. I can't remember but I think I tried the Game Genie with my Model 1 and it worked with Budokan, I really can't remember for sure though.

[BetaWolf47]

Is it even possible to find a model 2 VA3/VA4 with a CXA1645 that works with Sega CD? Or are all of those ones Majesco models?

[Ace]

I have both a VA3 and VA4 Genesis 2, both of which are 100% compatible with everything I have, Sega CD, 32X, Virtua Racing and Game Genie included. Some user on here posted about a Genesis 2 being completely incompatible with all that stuff, but I declare that to be total BS unless someone shows me CONCRETE evidence(and I mean a video) of any 3/4 motherboard Genesis 2 not working with any of that stuff.

Now that I think of it, I should check to see when my VA4 Genesis 2 was manufactured. If it was sometime in 1997/1998, it's definitely a Majesco unit.

Which leads me to this: when did Majesco release the Genesis 3?

[nebrazca78]

Hey Nebrazca, would you be able to take a picture of your VA0 Genesis 2's cartridge slot held open? I'm missing pictures of the cartridge slot held open on the VA0 and VA2.3 Genesis 2(full motherboard Genesis 2s are easily identifiable by the board layout around the cartridge slot). Make sure the image is bright and at a very high resolution.

I'm having trouble taking the picture. If I use the flash there is a reflection, even from different distances. If I don't use the flash, the picture is too dark and you can't really see anything.


Is it even possible to find a model 2 VA3/VA4 with a CXA1645 that works with Sega CD? Or are all of those ones Majesco models?

If you look at system #2 that I took apart above, it is a Majesco unit, has the VA4 board with a CXA1645M and works with Sega CD. BTW any and all of the systems I have mentioned are available for sale except one of the non-TMSS units which is the one I use to play games.