Are the days of consoles gone.....?

[Asylum Seeker]

Deliberately a title to get you to look inside the thread...

However what I mean is that compared to the "golden" age of gaming there are fewer and fewer manufacturers of consoles and we seem to have settled on Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft and Sony are relatively new players into the market. Question is do you feel they will all continue to develop new console hardware or will we get to a point where all we have are entertainment centres and downloadable content via the internet?

If you feel this is going to happen, can you put a timescale on it? Do you feel that Nintendo may end up just concentrating on the handheld market for example?

Other question is will manufacturers who used to have consoles on the market such as NEC, SNK (or SNK Playmore now), Bandia, Sega and Apple enter the market as a competitor? The only one of those that struck me as a potential was Apple but I could be wrong.

So what do you think?

[duffmanth]

I think there are fewer console makers because launching a new console is such an expensive thing to do, and you have to have really deep pockets to do it. Companies like Sony and Microsoft have the deep pockets to launch a console and can absorb the losses through software and accessory sales, as well as revenue from their other product/service divisions. Nintendo doesn't have the deep pockets of Sony and Microsoft, but their consoles usually have much lower manufacturing costs cuz they're just simple gaming consoles instead of trying to be multimedia entertainment units for gaming and everything else. I think Apple is the only electronics company right now that could get away with launching a new console and making it successful. I'm sure digital media will become more commonplace as time goes on, but physical media will always be around in gaming especially because so many gamers like myself would rather collect and have the physical copy.

[Asylum Seeker]

I think there are fewer console makers because launching a new console is such an expensive thing to do, and you have to have really deep pockets to do it. Companies like Sony and Microsoft have the deep pockets to launch a console and can absorb the losses through software and accessory sales, as well as revenue from their other product/service divisions. Nintendo doesn't have the deep pockets of Sony and Microsoft, but their consoles usually have much lower manufacturing costs cuz they're just simple gaming consoles instead of trying to be multimedia entertainment units for gaming and everything else. I think Apple is the only electronics company right now that could get away with launching a new console and making it successful. I'm sure digital media will become more commonplace as time goes on, but physical media will always be around in gaming especially because so many gamers like myself would rather collect and have the physical copy.

Yip agree with you in that physical media will (hopefully) always be around. I agree that Apple would be an obvious choice but I don't think they would be prepared to take the gamble....

[crazyjackcsa]

Like the DLC conversation hasn't been beaten to death...

[Asylum Seeker]

Like the DLC conversation hasn't been beaten to death...

Excuse me for not searching for DLC.

Away and bile yer heid.

[Dangerboy]

Ugh, just the break I needed from cleaning...

However what I mean is that compared to the "golden" age of gaming there are fewer and fewer manufacturers of consoles...

Any generation with more than 3 consoles (read: hooked up to the TV) is not a golden era, it's a nightmare. Every great age had just three main consoles - 16 Bit was SNES, Genny, TG16, post 32-Bit was PS2, GC, and Xbox 1.

The 32-Bit Generation, where there was more than 3 consoles, was a complete slaughter fest for some or funerals for others. Sony was the only real company to come out shining from their introductory period during the 32 Bit era...especially compared to the hardware ghosts of the 3DO, Jaguar, CD-I, Sega's downward spiral and Nintendo's loss of a dominant position.

3 consoles is the absolute max allowed in a console race. I actually think this generation is rather perfect - you have two rivals (360 vs PS3) with one spunky kid in the corner doing it's own thing (the Wii).

Microsoft and Sony are relatively new players into the market.

I don't consider 15 years and 4 systems in a new player anymore. Sony has proven that they were able to drag themselves past the '3rd console curse', even with severe bruises and financial blood letting. Seeing how Kutaragi is no longer allowed near hardware development, system #4 should see Sony get back into a better position.

Microsoft, regardless of your stance on the brand name, have proven they're willing to break new ground and not abandon those who got them here in the first place. Yes, they have severe hardware issues, but so did Sony all through-out the PS1 and PS2 (and launch PSP) era. But the fact that so many people still re-buy / re-send out their decks shows a commitment few consoles can admit too. They're the ones in the driver's seat for the next generation.

will we get to a point where all we have are entertainment centres and downloadable content via the internet?

Maybe in like, 15 years...but all I can see is fail. I had this conversation with a customer yesterday. He was all bragging and puffing his chest about how some new deck was going to blow away all the systems and usher in a new era. Here's why streaming / DLC only gaming is not coming anytime soon.

a. Too many people like their physical versions. Myself included.

b. Any system that is streaming based holds no market value - it's not a system so much as a tool. When the system's life cycle us over, so it your library. I can sit here and play my Intellivision and PSX till I turn blue - Sega Channel owners get a fancy paperweight.

c. No hunts, no instant gratification, no fanfare for DLC based decks.
PS3 owners can couch for this, especially early adopters. Gamers are in need of instant gratification. It's why we sell games at midnight, it's why we search for the best deal (and have whole forums dedicated to the hunt), and we go to stores like Digitpress, used stores, etc looking for that old favorite.

Take all that away - and you have little more than digital content. Gamers, instead of bragging or sharing stories with each other in line or stuck by themselves, online, waiting for the game to fully download (image 3 million people trying to DLC Modern Warfare 2 at once).

Now realize that there would be no competition in the price points. You can either pay $20 for GTA IV DLC or $12 for a physical copy at your local shop. The physical copy can be later sold off. The DLC is yours. How many people have complained about the prices of On-Demand games or Live / PSN games? Why be at the mercy of the publisher?

All you have to do is look at the PSP GO for proof of this. Top tier companies like Square refuse to make DLC versions, and many of the current games aren't going to DLC either.

Will older manufacturer's return?
Not if they value their existence. There's a reason why they stopped making hardware. Be it refusal to adapt the software (Neo CD), the in-ability to not jump the gun (Sega), p[oor marketing and other choices (Jaguar, 3D0, TG16), all the fallen have taken their bow knowing full well they don't belong in the machine business anymore. Hell, Sega couldn't fend off a CG FMV reel - and look what happened to them, lost in the gutter with a dead mascot to show for it.

Nintendo has the balls to know they can maintain a system by themselves (huge issue, but it's true), Sony knows they still have a brand name to safety net them, and Microsoft knows they have the finances to back up whatever endeavors they have planned.

Right now Microsoft is the new Nintendo, Sony is the New Sega, (turn the 32x into the PSP Go and the Dreamcast into the PS3), and Nintendo is the new Apple - wildly successful with small software gems here and there.

I think all three will be the mainstays for a while.

[Sniderman]

Are the days of consoles gone.....?

I once thought so. I had just purchsed my Commodore 64 brand new. All of my friends had an Atari 800 or Apple IIe or an Amiga. The days of the Atari/Intellivision/Colecovision were over and the days of the home computer was in full swing.

Then an upstart named "Nintendo" released a cart-based "entertainment system."

"Ha!" I said. "What a retarded business move! Why oh why would anyone bother to buy a cart-based system when you can have a home computer? Floppy discs take up less space than carts. You can have more then one game on a disc. Computers can play games or write l;etters or do your taxes or do art programs or a bunch of other stuff. Anyone who would buy a dedicated cart-based "game system" is an idiot!"

And, of course, you know the history.

Ergo, are the days of the console gone? Not by a long shot because, in my eyes, they should have ended nearly 30 years ago - but they didn't. There will always be a market, apparently.

[Ye0ldmario]

I'll take a disc over a download any day.

[nectarsis]

I'll take a disc over a download any day.

Agree 100%

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

i think once the medium matures, all software will be hardware-agnostic, much like any dvd will play on any dvd player. the way the situation is now would be like if sony music said "our cd's will only play on sony cd players." it's kinda ludicrous, but we accept it b/c that's the way it's always been in this medium.

however, i don't think we're very close to that time. i can easily see another 3 or 4 generations of hardware before a generic 'game player/dvr/media center' from wal-mart will connect to the internet and you'll decide if you want to dl a game from ms, sony, ninty, or any other software publishers.

i'm not real crazy about this model, but i can't see the current form of console gaming surviving forever.

as far as other competitors, apple seems the most likely, but i'd say they'd be better served just upgrading apple tv into a light gaming machine, leveraging their successful app store. if i were to pick any company to jump into the current fray though, it'd be samsung: they've surpassed sony as the most popular electronics brand, they made 5x as much profit as sony did last year, and they have their own semiconductor business.

[Lerxstnj]

I once thought so. I had just purchsed my Commodore 64 brand new. All of my friends had an Atari 800 or Apple IIe or an Amiga. The days of the Atari/Intellivision/Colecovision were over and the days of the home computer was in full swing.

Then an upstart named "Nintendo" released a cart-based "entertainment system."

"Ha!" I said. "What a retarded business move! Why oh why would anyone bother to buy a cart-based system when you can have a home computer? Floppy discs take up less space than carts. You can have more then one game on a disc. Computers can play games or write letters or do your taxes or do art programs or a bunch of other stuff. Anyone who would buy a dedicated cart-based "game system" is an idiot!"

And, of course, you know the history.



Coleco thought the same way and tried to integrate the Adam computer with the Colecovision so people could have both. That didn't work out either.

[Kid Ice]

"Ha!" I said. "What a retarded business move! Why oh why would anyone bother to buy a cart-based system when you can have a home computer? Floppy discs take up less space than carts. You can have more then one game on a disc. Computers can play games or write l;etters or do your taxes or do art programs or a bunch of other stuff. Anyone who would buy a dedicated cart-based "game system" is an idiot!"


You know, I heard these exact words the first time I saw an NES at Toys R Us. Are you sure it wasn't played over the public address system? ;-)

Nintendo came out of nowhere in the 80s and cleaned house as did Sony in the 90s. However I don't think that's going to happen again anytime soon since all three consoles are high quality and they all sell well.

[Breetai]

Every great age had just three main consoles...
Yeah, like the 8-bit age. There was Nintendo, Sega and.... ummmm.... well.... Atari 7800? Nope, not a main console...

Apparently you should retract your statement.

[Dangerboy]

Yeah, like the 8-bit age. There was Nintendo, Sega and.... ummmm.... well.... Atari 7800? Nope, not a main console...

Apparently you should retract your statement.

"...3 or less consoles..." 9_9

[buzz_n64]

Yeah, I agree with 3 main consoles, but usually 1 or 2 were dominent.

Early 80s
Atari 2600
Colecovision
Intelivision

Late 80s
NES
Mastersystem
Atari 7800

Early 90s
SNES
Genesis
TG-16

Late 90s
N64
Playstation
Saturn/Dreamcast

Early 00s
Xbox
PS2
Gamecube

Late 00s
360
PS3
Wii

[retroman]

i want to see sega get back into the game

[duffmanth]

I'll take a disc over a download any day.

I second that huge!

[Swamperon]

The cost of developing a new console and decent exclusive software to draw people in from existing brands who already have a following is simply too high and risky for any company to consider.

I think we may have reached a sort of 'stalemate' between the the 3 companies. This is the first generation not to feature any new serious newcomers to the console market (Onlive does not count) and is looking like it won't feature any company to withdraw either. Something which I believe is unprecedented.

If any company was to enter, I'd say Apple would be the most likely as they have the money and brand following. I could definitely see the "iconsole" succeeding if it had the right software. For example, if Apple bought/merged with say EA and all of the franchises that would bring, they could potentially have a winning console. But I can't see this happening any time soon, if ever.

[Flippy8490]

Agree 100%

Yup. I do NOT ever buy DLC content (with the exception of Megaman 9 and soon to be 10) Ever.

I only will if the software is a must have for me and there is no other means of attaining it. I can see nintendo releasing a MegaMan 9/10 dualpack disc at the 30 dollar pricepoint once their download cashflow dies off.

I will buy that as well. Nothing beats a physical copy.

[Flippy8490]

Also, I would really like to see an Apple game console. Sure, it would be expensive as all get out, but quality

[Flack]

Do you feel that Nintendo may end up just concentrating on the handheld market for example?

Absolutely, considering they have the best selling home system with the highest profit margin per unit ...

[Ed Oscuro]

I'd say this is a great time for consoles, actually. There's three (depending on who you ask) pretty strong choices (always good), with none of them obviously about to fail.

The economic downturn, the difficulty in developing the last generation, and the fact that people seem generally pretty content with what they've got mean this is actually as close to halcyon days as we've seen in a long while. This generation of console may well stick around for a few more years, and nobody can really complain about that.

Most narratives have PC gaming being the one in trouble, but I think that's doing alright too.

Also, I would really like to see an Apple game console. Sure, it would be expensive as all get out, but quality
No, it just makes you feel it's quality through the excessive use of airbrushed aluminum and a "lifestyle" ad marketing campaign.

What's more, an Apple console would actually just be a PC but marked up at a 120% premium.

[Kid Ice]

I don't know why DLC v. media is even relevant to this conversation. Even if consoles go all-downloads they will still be consoles.

[duffmanth]

Also, I would really like to see an Apple game console. Sure, it would be expensive as all get out, but quality

An Apple game console would be so cool, they already have digital downloading nailed with iTunes and the Appstore. The most important thing Apple would need to do to distinguish its console from the competition is have some killer exclusives ready to go right off the bat. i also agree that it would more than likely be an expensive system. Maybe they could show MS a thing or two about making quality hardware.

[RP2A03]

Also, I would really like to see an Apple game console. Sure, it would be expensive as all get out, but quality

You mean like the Pippin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bandai_Pippin)? LOL

[buzz_n64]

Yeah, Pippin was a fail, and they are trying to use the iphone and itouch as high end competitors to the ds and psp. No one is taking it seriously as a gaming platform. Apple computers are crappy gaming PCs. Apple would have to really, really work hard this time around to make it work, and get together with a company that knows gaming or graphics.

[maxlords]

Yeah, you'll never see another player enter the arena again that isn't a seriously major company. Entrance fees for new hardware are just too high. The costs have gone WAY up on EVERYTHING. We're a corporate society and that's just not gonna change. If anyone could pull it off, it'd be Apple or a huge multinational game company like EA (and I'm not sure they could pull it off). And I just don't see it happening.

[WCP]

physical media will always be around in gaming


God, I wish this statement would actually be true, but I just can't imagine 15 years from now having any physical media whatsoever.

[p_b]

Also, I would really like to see an Apple game console. Sure, it would be expensive as all get out, but quality

The IPhone could be considered a gaming platform, and maybe there'll be something for the IPad...

[Zap!]

Yeah, you'll never see another player enter the arena again that isn't a seriously major company. Entrance fees for new hardware are just too high. The costs have gone WAY up on EVERYTHING. We're a corporate society and that's just not gonna change. If anyone could pull it off, it'd be Apple or a huge multinational game company like EA (and I'm not sure they could pull it off). And I just don't see it happening.

Samsung makes Apple and Sony look like a mom and pop shop. If anyone can do it, they can.

[bunnybum]

Reading through this thread, one thing popped into my mind, which sounds insane but actually made sense to me.

Couldn't the console "evolution" have been pushed back a couple of generations, if the game companies put in the effort to localise their games and release the otherwise Japan-exclusive games in the Western World as well? I mean, there's another thread on here (I forgot who it), but there's a lot of discussion about the Dreamcast vs. Saturn, and the main points being made is regarding the awesome library of import games on the Saturn compared to the Dreamcast's huge amount of sports titles (Yes, I'm paraphrasing quite a bit here).
My point is this: Would we be seeing the birth of a totally awesome Sega console now, if they hadn't released the Dreamcast and instead spent their time on releasing their exclusive Japanese titles in other regions? Obviously the Saturn has the replay value and would have been able to survive for more than four years, right?
I know, I know. "The graphics would look horrible compared to today's standards". But really, look at the Wii; Graphics-wise it's no 8th wonder of the World but it makes up in playability and accessibility.
The market has been saturated with "photo-realistic" games released for the 360 and PS3, and there's really no way to improve your games in any aspect; It has all been done now.

So yeah, perhaps the days of consoles are gone; Yet one could just as easily argue that, the days of consoles are just dawning, seeing that there is practically no room for improvement any longer, and more people are looking to the old consoles and import-gaming to feed their need.

Uhh, yeah. Sorry about that, it just made sense to me. *_*

[Loremaster]

Reading through this thread, one thing popped into my mind, which sounds insane but actually made sense to me.

Couldn't the console "evolution" have been pushed back a couple of generations, if the game companies put in the effort to localise their games and release the otherwise Japan-exclusive games in the Western World as well? I mean, there's another thread on here (I forgot who it), but there's a lot of discussion about the Dreamcast vs. Saturn, and the main points being made is regarding the awesome library of import games on the Saturn compared to the Dreamcast's huge amount of sports titles (Yes, I'm paraphrasing quite a bit here).
My point is this: Would we be seeing the birth of a totally awesome Sega console now, if they hadn't released the Dreamcast and instead spent their time on releasing their exclusive Japanese titles in other regions? Obviously the Saturn has the replay value and would have been able to survive for more than four years, right?
I know, I know. "The graphics would look horrible compared to today's standards". But really, look at the Wii; Graphics-wise it's no 8th wonder of the World but it makes up in playability and accessibility.
The market has been saturated with "photo-realistic" games released for the 360 and PS3, and there's really no way to improve your games in any aspect; It has all been done now.

So yeah, perhaps the days of consoles are gone; Yet one could just as easily argue that, the days of consoles are just dawning, seeing that there is practically no room for improvement any longer, and more people are looking to the old consoles and import-gaming to feed their need.

Uhh, yeah. Sorry about that, it just made sense to me. *_*

I gotta jump in here...

That is a perfectly valid theory, and I would have loved to see that play out, except for one problem...

Would those games have sold over here in the market of that era?

I mean, obviously some of those games are amazing and would make the culture jump quite well, but others give me doubts.

A good example are the two Evangelion games I have sitting on my shelf [1st and 2nd Impression, for the curious]. Japan exclusives and quite good, but I don't think anyone other than Evangelion fans like myself would have bothered to pick them up over here. Part of the problem is the so-called "Japanese Stink" that just can't be removed from the game. There is absolutely no disguising the fact that these games are Japanese, and in the market of the Saturn, I'm not so sure that would have flown. Nowadays, sure, they would have done great with the Japanese flavor.

Another issue is the fact that Japanese gamers have different tastes than your average American gamer. Just look at the failure of the XBOX over there. They aren't big on our mainstream action games a la Halo and Gears of War. Similarly, we aren't big on their visual novels and adventures, nor their insane SHMUPS [Of course, this has changed in recent years, but could you imagine Americans of 1997 or so wanting to play a curtain fighter?]

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe American gamers' tastes would have changed, and they would have embraced these strange Japanese games we all know and love today. I wonder what today's gaming landscape would look like if that had happened? Heh, Halo as a visual novel adventure... THAT would be something to see.


In any case, I too think that the era of console gaming is still going strong. I think Nintendo changed the game, showing that you need to change up more than just the processing power with a new console. Do I necessarily think that motion control is the future? Nah, but I would expect to see it around as at least an optional peripheral. However, I think that we're going to see Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft start really hunching over the drawing boards in the coming decades in an effort to really rethink the way we play games. In a way, it reminds me of the pre-NES consoles, how they were always trying new things with the hardware to be different.

Nintendo did the Wii, Microsoft is trying Natal, and Sony is trying stuff like MAG. Nintendo is doing oddball peripherals [I STILL say the heart rate sensor would be an awesome accessory for survival-horror games], and in general everyone is starting to rethink things that we've taken for granted.

I don't know about y'all, but I've never been more excited to see what the next generation of consoles will bring. It may be a few years out, but I'm looking forward to it.

[Arkhan]

I agree that Apple would be an obvious choice but I don't think they would be prepared to take the gamble....

god I wish I had that picture comparing the iPhone , PSP, and DS "entertainment titles" and other feature comparisons (app store, etc.)

It was made clear right there that Apple has no idea what is going on in the video game industry, or what quality "entertainment" software is.

The app store isn't an innovative idea anyways.


I think that Nintendo/Sony/M$ have basically solidified themselves as the 3 console makers for the rest of eternity. I doubt anyone is going to step up and try to compete. Sega got run out of there, and they had two decades experience on their side.

and even if someone did make a console, what could they offer that isn't already available? And would developers want to take a chance at developing on a possible flop?

[bunnybum]

Very true, the tastes are different, and that could have influenced the market if the consoles hadn't evolved at the rate they did.
Personally I would have stuck to the Adventure games of the C64 if it hadn't been for a family member heavily into importing Japanese games for the NES back in the day, which caused me to try out a lot of games I normally wouldn't have given a fair chance, so I guess the need for gamers to play new games would have gotten them into different genres (read: Japanese games without a US/Euro release), and this would/could have opened a whole new market for overlooked Japanese games. Just look at the JRPG craze of a few years back.

[WCP]

One thing that does depress me a bit, is the fact that we are never likely to see a repeat of what was going on in 1994. During 1994, there were so many gaming platforms to choose from. Late 1993 just saw the release of the Panasonic and 3DO, and the 32X was coming in November 2004. Plus, you still had the Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis, Sega CD, TurboDuo, Neo-Geo, Philips CD-I, etc, etc. Then, if you count Japan, you also had the release of the Sega Saturn and Sony Playstation in December 1994. 1994 was just bat shit insane when it came to the videogaming landscape. So much variety.

[Ze_ro]

Question is do you feel they will all continue to develop new console hardware or will we get to a point where all we have are entertainment centres and downloadable content via the internet?
Are you talking about having one console and no competition? It could happen. 3DO essentially tried to do just this by licensing their technology, and it's conceivable that another company might try to do this. It will NOT be any of the companies you mentioned though... look more towards companies like Samsung, Texas Instruments, Intel and AMD. They're all merging processors and video hardware to make embedded systems that could easily become a standardized console system.


Other question is will manufacturers who used to have consoles on the market such as NEC, SNK (or SNK Playmore now), Bandia, Sega
Hell no. All those companies are once-bitten-twice-shy. None of these companies are going beyond software anytime soon (exceptions made for niche-market items, like Sega seems to be doing).


Will Apple enter the market as a competitor?
Don't look now, but they're already in the market. The iPhone has plenty of games available, and the iPad is their next attempt. They're not going directly head to head with Sony and Microsoft though, they're trying a bank shot into the industry on the same casual-gaming lines that have worked for Nintendo.

They are NOT going to make a console though.


a. Too many people like their physical versions. Myself included.
Sorry, but most people really don't care these days. When digital distribution becomes the only option, everyone here on DP will revolt, but the average Joe who buys Madden every year really won't care. They'll just be happy they don't have to get off the couch to buy their games anymore. The only reason most people even sell their games back is because they know it has some value... they won't stop to consider the "no resale value" issue once physical copies aren't available.

This crap is going to happen whether we like it or not. The companies want it, and sadly, 90% of the consumers want it too.


b. Any system that is streaming based holds no market value
Again, the average gamer really won't care. And the concept behind stuff like OnLive is that the hardware will NEVER truly become obsolete because they don't have to process anything. If games require more power, they just add more computers to the "cloud". The only time you'll need to replace your OnLive box is when resolution increases demand extra video decoding power.


c. No hunts, no instant gratification, no fanfare for DLC based decks.
If nothing else, surely you realize we at DP are the only ones who care about this? And instant gratification is one the major draws of digital distribution (and especially stuff like OnLive where you won't even have to download anything).


Now realize that there would be no competition in the price points. You can either pay $20 for GTA IV DLC or $12 for a physical copy at your local shop. The physical copy can be later sold off. The DLC is yours.
I'd really like to see how retail sales have compared to online sales via XBLA/PSN. I bet the download copies are FAR ahead of the retail copies... and it's only going to get worse as more and more people figure out that they can download stuff.


All you have to do is look at the PSP GO for proof of this. Top tier companies like Square refuse to make DLC versions, and many of the current games aren't going to DLC either.
That's not really a fair comparison... the PSP Go is directly competing with the regular PSP, which has already been on the market for years. When the revolution comes and digital distribution is the only option, I think things will be quite different.

--Zero

[ScourDX]

The current generation console is a reminiscence of a computer. Will next gen feature adding more ram to the console and upgrade graphic card to handle more polygons? I hope not. It is already expensive to buy 1st party controller, online subscription and authorized hard drive. The way I see it, console is becoming like PC with more expensive parts or like Mac itself.

[SegaAges]

I am a Sega fan myself, and even I have come to the realization that the only hardware Sega will ever be putting out from now on will be arcade hardware.

[CaryMG]

iPad's naysayers are either shills stupid.

THERE'S NO USB
Is that right ....
Let's see now -- you connect an iPod to what?
Yes, that's right -- a computer.
And where, exactly, do you connect it to a computer ?
Yes, that's right -- the USB port ....
But alas, I'm confused .... How can you connect an iPod to a computer's USB port if an iPod doesn't have USB ?
Yes, that's right -- there's a USB cable with one end a 30-pin connecter.
Will the iPod & iPad have the same connectivity config ?
Yes, that's right -- it will ....

IT DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH MEMORY
I have a ton of iOS apps.
Big apps.
i have over 2 days worth of music.
I have a spitload worth of images.
Y'know what all of that comes to?
Let's call it 4 gigs.
Books?
ePub booksize is measured in kilobytes.
That leaves 12 gigs to play with
What about video?
OK -- what's a movie ? About, like, 800 megs or so?
Some are a gig/a gig+.
And why would you permanately keep a movie on your iPad ?
Ususally you watch it however many times you're gonna watch it, then delete it.

IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE
"Oh what a ripoff -- I can get a netbook with 160 gigs of memory for $150 !1!!11!!"
Sure ya can -- along with a mandatory 2 year/$60-A-Month dataplan with download limits.
But let's say a netbook, free & clear, is $250 -- half the price of an iPad.
For $250 you get more storage/a keyboard/a camera -- all the things the iPad doesn't have.
Well, that's why a netbook's only half the price -- because it does have a keyboard.
Look at the copycat tablets on the way from Amazon & GOOGLE and tell me if either one of them will cost $250.
An the memory amount difference?
I already covered that -- it's unnecessary.
Not having a camera?
lol
If you think by the time the iPad's on sale there won't be a "surpirse" addition of a camera,
then maybe you aren't to up on marketing methods.



:)

[Icarus Moonsight]

W. T. F? :above me:

[Famidrive-16]

I'll take a disc over a download any day.

I'd rather have a download.

[gamegirl79]

Consoles aren't going away anytime soon.

I think it's also worth noting that a lot of households in rural areas are still not able to get cable or DSL internet. Before we can seriously talk about consoles becoming obsolete, we have to get the majority of the country connected to high speed internet. That's probably still a long ways off unfortunately. Gamers live in the boonies too, ya know. :)

[Zap!]

I'd rather have a download.

Why? You can't display a download and look at it, nor read the instructions in bed.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Gamers live in the boonies too, ya know. :)

Just a gamer here, checking in from the boonies.

What's this internet gaming thing the kid's have been talking about these days? I hear it's the next big thing.

[The 1 2 P]

The console market isn't going anywhere yet but this gen will be the longest one that had atleast three different systems that all did atleast moderately well. There will be another console gen after this one but I doubt either of the three participants are eager to rush into that while they continue making money this gen or continue trying to recoup cost from this gen.

The all-digital-download futre that many have prophecised about over the last few years is quite a long ways away. Even ten years from now not every home will be ready for high speed downloads. I think that all-digital as the future of gaming(if it ever really takes the place of stand alone games) would be atleast two decades from now. However, even if it does arrive, that doesn't mean that everyone will support it.

[FxMercenary]

i think this might help explain things better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM

[Jisho23]

I suppose I'm in the minority camp of "I adore direct downloading." Many of my more favorite/memorable games on my 360 are Indie and Arcade titles.

That being said I don't think hard copies of games will ever disappear. Factor that with stuff like On Demand and Direct TV people still buy DVDs or rent from Netflix. Once videos go completely digital then video games may jump on the bandwagon.

[Famidrive-16]

nor read the instructions in bed.

lol

But I just personally find it more convenient nowadays. I think it's a better way to distribute smaller titles as well, instead of slapping them in some budget title collection disc.

[Zap!]

lol

But I just personally find it more convenient nowadays. I think it's a better way to distribute smaller titles as well, instead of slapping them in some budget title collection disc.

Heh, to each their own. I am fine with simple games (such as WiiWare) being downloadable, just not the big ones. I dunno, I just love displaying things.

[kupomogli]

Onlive is going to be 14.95 a month.

http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=7371&mp=1

14.95 a month but if you upgraded your computer to the max you can get right now, you'd probably never have to upgrade again. What about people paying for MMO games? 14.95 plus the cost of the game itself per month.

I think onlive is going to fail to be honest. But hey. It's a good thing for PC owners because if onlive does kick off, you can expect a lot of sales on Steam more often.

[MarioMania]

I don't think Sony, Microsoft or even 3 Party Comps. going to care what people say on Gaming Forums...

If they want Download Games in like 2 years, it will come..It saves money by not pressing disks

[hbkprm]

Deliberately a title to get you to look inside the thread...

However what I mean is that compared to the "golden" age of gaming there are fewer and fewer manufacturers of consoles and we seem to have settled on Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft and Sony are relatively new players into the market. Question is do you feel they will all continue to develop new console hardware or will we get to a point where all we have are entertainment centres and downloadable content via the internet?

If you feel this is going to happen, can you put a timescale on it? Do you feel that Nintendo may end up just concentrating on the handheld market for example?

Other question is will manufacturers who used to have consoles on the market such as NEC, SNK (or SNK Playmore now), Bandia, Sega and Apple enter the market as a competitor? The only one of those that struck me as a potential was Apple but I could be wrong.

So what do you think?



i think nothings going to change

[mastamuzz]

If the time comes and only digital is available well I'll stop being a gamer, is like being the owner of thin air and worst you have asthma! so in the end you own nothing.

True story: when the 360 came out I had to go and get one and then the first arcade tittles came out and yes I downloaded games, then I met my wife and we started dating and one thing led to the other and for a while I forgot about my console, then I sold it for a few bucks cause I needed gil at that time so I erased the HDD and ha ha ha yes I forgot my gamer tag and all the info cause everything was automated so I never paid attention, I lost everything! and that was a lesson in life. never buy a promise or something you can't hold in your hand!

This is not the first time I hear that we are at the limit of technology and every year something new comes out, it can be a new processor or a new tv like the 3d tv's (I need one) the only industry that is still doing the same crap as they used to is the car industry, they still sell the same type of engines and the same type of cars they used to make 60 years ago (probably cheaper materials) and different interiors adding external technology to lure you like tv and dvd inside or gps but the car is still the same thing and we go and buy a new one every year!

coming to a conclusion "if it's not broken why fix it?"

If you buy DLC you are affecting a lot of people and your community too!
Why? first is your neighbor that works on the video game store he gets fired on a cut cause the store is not selling enough games, then the store owner haves to close for the same reason, but the problem doesn't stop there the guy that got fired used to buy on the corner store but now he haves to go to wall mart and the corner store closes too and so on is a chain reaction on your local economy!

so back to the topic, console development can't stop here, I am sure that MS is already planning the new console cause as the first xbox the hackers cracked it and they are loosing money by the minute, that's why MS sells more consoles than sony, and Nintendo doesn't have that big problem yet cause kids demand original stuff like their friends, just the teenagers seek ways to get things for free, so piracy pushes them to release a new console!
it's just a matter of months now for the PS3 to get cracked and sony will look for new ways to stop it but no one can stop the cycle, but kudos to sony cause is been 2 and a half years and still no chip or hack!

so the last word don't buy DLC or the next one who can get fired could be you!!:bawling:

[Icarus Moonsight]

So DLC ruined the economy? LOL

There is room for digital distribution. The model is young and it is experiencing growing pains, just like anything else does. When all is said and done the market will be served by what people want to buy. If people loose jobs it's not because they were forced out... That's how markets restructure themselves to align with what people want to buy. Horse Buggy manufactures and workers definitely did not view the Ford car as a beneficial offering, but people bought it. Eventually, there were no more Horse Buggy companies... Cycle of life. Evolve and adapt or roll over and die. Yadda yadda yadda...

[mastamuzz]

So DLC ruined the economy? LOL

In a way yes, the idea of bypassing the local retailer is affecting your local economy! the money you spend on DLC is going directly to another country in this case Japan not USA even if there is Sony or Nintendo of America MS is still here but you still bypass the local retailer!


There is room for digital distribution. The model is young and it is experiencing growing pains, just like anything else does. When all is said and done the market will be served by what people want to buy. If people loose jobs it's not because they were forced out... That's how markets restructure themselves to align with what people want to buy. Horse Buggy manufactures and workers definitely did not view the Ford car as a beneficial offering, but people bought it. Eventually, there were no more Horse Buggy companies... Cycle of life. Evolve and adapt or roll over and die. Yadda yadda yadda...

The whole point economy wise is that we buy stuff from other places and forget to buy things locally, your clothes, your food. Look around and tell me how many things you have in your room that haves the Made in USA stamp?
If you are young you don't even know what I am talking about!

If you are like me and you don't live in the USA I don't have many things that are made in Canada and that affects my local economy, I try to buy as many things I can from local distributors and drive American cars Chevrolet and Chrysler, I know Honda is nice and economic but the money goes somewhere else, you may laugh but this small things are important for your local economy !

[Icarus Moonsight]

Yes, because everyone knows the way to verify a broad and sweeping claim is to show narrow and limited (in this case, by geography) examples. You are taking an overly simplified "golden age" fantasy view of a highly dynamic and complex economic reality (and why not, Micheal Moore used that approach as well). While I would agree with the whole "things are not as they should be" slant, I understand that things are as they exist because of the foundational realities of the given situation. And no, you can not change those realities by solely "buying local". I'd be surprised if anyone today can exist to any degree of modernity by solely buying local (maybe China, but that's only because nearly everything is made there). That's a dream wrapped in a lie. Nostalgia. That's alright, in and of itself. Kind of what we deal in around here, mostly. But good economics it does not make. There will be cases where you can buy local. I do when I by fruit and vegetables from farmers markets and local farm stands, but I'm not under the illusion that I'm saving the world or anything... It's just trade.

[mastamuzz]

Back to topic I was thinking last night on this same thing and I was playing super Castlevania IV (best castlevania from the Belmont legacy style IMHO) and thought this:

Would anyone buy a new 2D console today? what if we pick it up where we left? I mean we left the 2D platforms on the 64bit consoles and they were good on some 2D games but 3D fought it's way in and 2D was banished, but my dearest memories are on 2D consoles, I play new games too but they are not as memorable as the 2D I admit I am a FPS sucker I like them all and that can't be done on a 2D machine but sidescrollers were great like Contra, SMB, Ninja Gaiden, Mega-man, Bionic Commando (the 2D is great on new consoles and the 3D can't even be played) also 2D fighting games SF series KOF series FF series AOF.

Use the courrent technology to make games that look great but with the old gameplay!

All in a new hardware! I know is a fools dream but the loading part of the new consoles really bugs me! going back to carts. I know no one will cause is way more expensive for VG companies and is a step backwards, but no loading time and with current technology something can be done to lower costs!

[j_factor]

If you are like me and you don't live in the USA I don't have many things that are made in Canada and that affects my local economy, I try to buy as many things I can from local distributors and drive American cars Chevrolet and Chrysler, I know Honda is nice and economic but the money goes somewhere else, you may laugh but this small things are important for your local economy !

I buy local for some things, but you can't really apply that to everything.

In any case, I think consoles are here to stay for the time being. 30 years from now, though, your cell phone will also be a handheld game system, console, and computer.

[Rob2600]

30 years from now, though, your cell phone will also be a handheld game system, console, and computer.

Or now (the iPhone, Droid, Pre Plus, Nexus One, etc.).

[Zap!]

30 years from now, though, your cell phone will also be a handheld game system, console, and computer.

Since I have that now, I'm hoping for a full holograph phone in 30 years, like Vader talking to Sidious. Maybe 60 years...

[Icarus Moonsight]

Use the courrent technology to make games that look great but with the old gameplay!

I've often thought of an open source multi-platform hardware emulator system (similar to how MAME is set-up), where a developer, if they wanted, could custom build the "hardware", specifically for the type of game they were intending to build, in software - according to the demands of the project. Or simply use an existing soft-system build (either copy of existing hardware or a tweeked version or a totally new soft-hardware system built and designed by someone else) to get right into making a game for it. Eliminates retail hardware and software distribution, and to a degree, some marketing push (some large barriers to entry that exist today). Internet/viral, word of mouth and enthusiast community support would be the prime factors in marketing of the games, I'd imagine. Sort of a HB scene on 'roids, where even the system "hardware" can be HB-designed. I'm sure it would generate some very interesting results. It would be a mammoth undertaking to pull all of that under one package, but less of one than building tangible new-old tech hardware for retail sale. Or, at least, that would be my estimation of it. The reason that it hasn't come about already in this form is pretty sad... Gave it away in the first line even: "open source".

[bacteria]

It used to be easier for a new console to be released, games didn't take long to write and could be done with small teams and small budgets. Look at Atari and the likes of Sinclair, Coleco and Mattel for examples. Heck, a lot of software on the Spectrum and C64 was written by kids in their bedrooms! These days, it's all about fancy graphics, large development teams, multi million dollar budgets, etc. That means it costs multi millions to make a new console system and generate software for it; so few players in the world can now participate - probably just Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo; period.

Thus, on topic, the days of "consoles" are gone, in the original sense.

Personally, I far prefer old games than new ones: with their emphasis on gameplay, quick-fix and fun.

[Compute]

Clearly the iPad is the next gen console since Apple is great? Until they find a new way to make touchscreen gaming not a complete pain in the ass, there is a big hurdle to move.

As far as DLC goes, I've only seen mention of broadband infrastructure in this thread. Strange but true: the whole US is not totally wired yet with 100mbit fiber optic for $10/month. Soon this will be taken care of, but not yet. I am sure the retailers will have something to say about this, too. What happens when you yank one of the profit items from store shelves? Do you seriously think that companies such as WalMart, etc, won't have a word to say in this? Not saying that DLC won't happen (it is), but there are considerations beyond, "Well it works fine on my 5gbit here in Metro City."

[j_factor]

Or now (the iPhone, Droid, Pre Plus, Nexus One, etc.).

Yeah, but like, moreso. Imagine a phone with a full desktop-style OS, video out, inputs for keyboards/controllers, etc.

With consoles becoming more computer-like (and media center-like / set top box-like), handhelds being console-like (at least with the PSP), the decline of straight-up MP3 players in favor of "internet media tablets", and cell phones advancing on all fronts (gaming, internet, media playing, computer-like usability), it would seem likely that all of the above will converge at some distant point in the future. Maybe 30 years is too soon, though. A lot of companies seem to be working against convergence right now.