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Flack
02-06-2010, 05:49 PM
In 2004, I posted a poll (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42950) here on DP asking people what type of book I should write. You voted for a book of old Commodore 64 modem stories, and you got it. The result was Commodork (http://www.robohara.com/Commodork), which turned out to be a great experience.

Looking back at that old thread, I see the second place option (a book of game reviews) has now tied with Commodork. That's good, because I'm currently working on a book of C64 game reviews. The new book will be a free PDF download, and will contain sixty-four game reviews. 32 of the reviews will be of "good" games -- ones I like. The other 32 will be of terrible games. Kind of a "good cop/bad cop" approach.

Here's where you come in. I need help picking 32 bad games to review. Coming up with 32 good games was no problem; in fact, the only problem was limiting it down to 32! As for the bad ones though, I'm looking for the real stinkers -- the worst of the worst. If there's one C64 game that you think is the worst of the worst, post it here. If I end up using your suggestion, I'll mention your name in the book.

I've already combed through Lemon 64's list ([url=http://www.lemon64.com/games/votes_list.php?worst=true]Worst 100 Games[/url), so posting that link is no help.

I currently have about 18 games on my "bad" list, but some of those are subject to change depending on what you guys come up with!!

le geek
02-06-2010, 07:03 PM
Ghouls, Frankie Goes to Hollywood and Judge Dredd (1987) come to mind.

Gameguy
02-06-2010, 07:18 PM
What about Sky Twice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWRFDPxomeI

Flack
02-07-2010, 07:52 AM
Ghouls, Frankie Goes to Hollywood and Judge Dredd (1987) come to mind.

Frankie Goes to Hollywood is already on my list. I'll check out the other two here in a few minutes -- thanks!

Flack
02-07-2010, 07:53 AM
What about Sky Twice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWRFDPxomeI

I found that same link through Google. Compared to a lot of the ones on my list, that game's not that bad.

scooterb23
02-07-2010, 09:22 AM
The Human Race - Mastertronic game where you have to evolve. If you check Lemon 64...you'll notice there's only 1 screenshot of the game in progress. Because it's impossible to beat the 1st level. Your character runs so slowly, and he can't jump well enough to evade the multitude of enemies.

If you get the cracked version, they made a version where you can't die. So I've actually been able to play the entire game...and I wish I hadn't bothered. Each level controls differently, but none of them are any fun at all. One of the biggest turkeys I've played on the C64.

AB Positive
02-07-2010, 11:00 AM
I'm guessing you already have this but my first thought was Renegade III: The Final Chapter. Or BMX Ninja.

tom
02-07-2010, 12:24 PM
wow, where to start, just look at most of the Ocean film/tv tie-ins. Or CRL, they never made a good C64 game. Or Grandslam. Or Elite (company). Or Gremlin (Mask, Mask II) etc... C64 has a HUGE worst list

Mayhem
02-07-2010, 01:07 PM
Frankie Goes to Hollywood is already on my list. I'll check out the other two here in a few minutes -- thanks!

FGTH should be in the GOOD games list... anyone who says otherwise... just didn't get it ;)

I'd be interested in seeing the good list anyways, might be something Europe centric that really should go in there. Unless this is a more personal take on the games...?

As for bad games... off the top of my head springs to mind "Alice in Videoland", "Robobolt", "Web Dimension", "Hunchback at the Olympics" and a bunch of bad arcade conversions such as "Breathru", the US version of "Bionic Commando", "Cisco Heat" and "Gunsmoke".

Flack
02-07-2010, 04:00 PM
Here's the bad list so far:

Aaargh!
Alice in Videoland
Army Moves (259)
Aztec
Back to the Future
Bionic Granny
BMX Ninja
Break Dance
Chuck Norris
Cops 'N' Robbers
Double Dragon
Dragon's Lair
E.K. Jump Challenge (282)
Hard Drivin'
Ikari Warriors (USA version)
Intergalactic Cage Match
Judge Dredd (195A)
Kid Niki
Knight Rider
Lancer Lord (004B)
Ninja (137)
Smurf Massacre (011B)
Street Fighter I and/or II
Transformers

It is still being tweaked, of course. I need to look at the suggestions you guys offered!

As for the best list, it's still being worked on. My first attempt literally had 200 titles listed. The good news is, if people like this one, there will be plenty of fodder left over for volume 2!

scooterb23
02-07-2010, 04:24 PM
These give me some stuff to try out. I tend to love bad games. I don't think I've ever played any of those... on the C64

tom
02-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Nemesis the Warlock (Martech), this must be one of the worst UK titles by far (next to Miami Vice (Ocean)).

And another Epyx beauty, Barbie.

Cascade: Disk 50, the free digital watch was better than the whole price of the disk
http://www.videogamecollectors.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=232074&g2_serialNumber=1

tom
02-07-2010, 04:48 PM
FGTH should be in the GOOD games list... anyone who says otherwise... just didn't get it ;)

I'd be interested in seeing the good list anyways, might be something Europe centric that really should go in there. Unless this is a more personal take on the games...?

".

I think Europe would top the 'worse' C64 games list and USA the 'better' C64 games list

scooterb23
02-07-2010, 05:28 PM
Ok, so I've been giving a few of those games in Flack's list a try...is it wrong that I kind of enjoy BMX Ninja?

Arkhan
02-07-2010, 05:42 PM
Attack Of The Phantom Karate Devils

Woooooooooooooo

Mayhem
02-07-2010, 10:03 PM
I'd remove Army Moves and Dragon's Lair, neither are sufficiently bad enough to warrant inclusion, just being more middle of the road affairs. The rest of the entries Flack I can't really argue too much about their presence.


I think Europe would top the 'worse' C64 games list and USA the 'better' C64 games list

Nah, not by a long shot. Both sides of the pond had excellent and crap titles. Trust me, I've played a ton of crap US games now heh. Although of my personal top ten best C64 titles, only one is American, the other nine are European...

T2KFreeker
02-07-2010, 10:08 PM
Thank God Street Fighter II was on the list. What a horrible conversion. I understand that the C64 was limited, but it was horrid. Should have left it alone and never made this version.

tom
02-08-2010, 08:51 AM
Nah, not by a long shot. Both sides of the pond had excellent and crap titles. Trust me, I've played a ton of crap US games now heh. Although of my personal top ten best C64 titles, only one is American, the other nine are European...

Can't trust you, the guy who believes the GB64 database owns 'over 20.000 unique C64 released games'.

But you can trust me, I played most of the UK C64 titles on original hardware during the 80s and numerous USA C64 titles.
No Euorpean developer can match the might of US titles from companies like Origin, Infocom, Sir-Tech, Microprose, EA, Activision, SSI, subLogic, Broderbund, Mindscape, Lucasfilm, NWC, Synapse....etc.
Of course, US had crap too, but UK had far more crap (what's it say the in DP fanzine? all UK games feature Kamikazee aliens....}, starting with the cheap stuff from Masertronic, Bubble Bus, Hi-Tec and so forth. Those companies churned out games just for 'making bucks'.

As for your 10 best C64 games, only one is a US game? Yes, I read your C64 top 10 in Retro Gamer (The Sentinel number 1? In front of a Lucasfilm game? Never), this only means you don't know many US games, nothing more. Sorry.

98PaceCar
02-08-2010, 09:10 AM
I seem to remember Howard the Duck being just about as bad as the movie. Past that, I was always so happy to just have new games that I would play anything, no matter how bad it was!

tom
02-08-2010, 09:17 AM
I seem to remember Howard the Duck being just about as bad as the movie. Past that, I was always so happy to just have new games that I would play anything, no matter how bad it was!

Actually, Activision released many duds after mid 80s, stuff like Galactic Games, Galaxy Force, SDI, Knightmare, Enduro Racer, Ghostbusters 2 ....etc urgh

Mayhem
02-08-2010, 09:38 AM
That actually wasn't my top ten in Retro Gamer... well it was, but it wasn't my actual real top ten. And the list isn't in numbered order btw, it's just ten entries, so the first entry isn't considered #1. So maybe you didn't like The Sentinel. Countless other people did. C'est la vie. I despite Pirates for example, and can't understand why so many other people rate it highly. It's boring, repetitive piffle *shrug*

Infocom were matched by Magnetic Scrolls and Level 9, even if they didn't get quite as heralded. Activision's output in the mid 80s and later went a bit down the pan and quite a few of their better games from those times had origins in Europe to begin with. Origin's ports were not as good as the Apple II games at time, and had horrible loading in others. I've got almost all Synapse's games and sad to say, I think most of them are tosh. Sorry. I love Drelbs, Sentinel and Slamball though. Broderbund's output was a mixed bag; Karateka, Bungeling Bay, Centauri Alliance, Lode Runner, Wings of Fury good. The less said about some the others, the better. Lucasfilm? Maniac Mansion was revolutionary, and Zak better (which is probably why it got the nod into the RG list). I always felt Koronis Rift and Eidolon were over-rated; good but over-rated. Loved Ballblazer however. Labyrinth was a pile of tosh.

It is quite obvious to me you're a complete disk snob Tom so I don't take any offense. I've played thousands of C64 titles in my time and yes, lots of US originated titles. I more suspect in part you're like an American games version of an otaku (in that they believe Japan is better than the West) and you prefer perhaps more the style of game that tended to come from the US instead (simulations, RPGs etc).

I tend to prefer more arcade orientated titles, which quite frankly the Americans were often useless at compared to the Europeans, especially in the second half of the C64's life. All the good arcade conversions then came out of Europe. All the hardware pushing to get as much from the machine as possible came out of Europe. Games such as Turrican and Mayhem in Monsterland weren't just there to impress, they played well to boot.

That isn't to say I don't enjoy a good RPG or war game or simulation. I stuffed countless hours into the Bard's Tale trilogy, Wasteland, Project Firestart, Laser Squad, Storm Across Europe, Vietnam, Gunship, Project Stealth Fighter, Space Rogue and the SSI gold box games.

So please don't say I don't know many US games because it's a complete fallacy.

And now back on topic for this thread if possible...

Flack
02-08-2010, 09:41 AM
I'd remove Army Moves and Dragon's Lair, neither are sufficiently bad enough to warrant inclusion, just being more middle of the road affairs. The rest of the entries Flack I can't really argue too much about their presence.

Army Moves is pretty low on the list ... thanks to all the suggestions in this thread, it'll probably get knocked off.

I'll probably keep Dragon's Lair on. It's not "terrible" terrible, but it's pretty bad when compared to the original or even the Amiga version, and I can say lots of funny things about it. :)

Flack
02-08-2010, 10:29 AM
I'd be interested in seeing the good list anyways, might be something Europe centric that really should go in there. Unless this is a more personal take on the games...?

Here's the good list as it stands. I still need to cut it down to 32 titles, and there are 50 more I could add. I guess my caveat would be that I don't necessarily think that these are the best 32 games, only that they are 32 great games. Like I said, whatever gets the shaft this round will probably end up in "volume 2" ...

Archon
Barbarian: The Ultimate Warrior
Bard's Tale, The: Tales of the Unknown
Bounces
Bruce Lee
Buggy Boy
California games
Defender of the Crown
Elite
Friday the 13th
Ghostbusters
Impossible Mission
Jumpman
Kikstart
Last Ninja
Law of the West
Little Computer People
Lode Runner
M.U.L.E.
Maniac Mansion
Mayhem in Monsterland
Montezuma's Revenge
Nebulus
Paradroid
Park Patrol
Pirates!
Racing Destruction Set
Rally Speedway
Realm of Impossibility
Sentinel, The
Seven Cities of Gold
Skate or Die!
Space Taxi
Toy Bizarre
Ultima (3 or 4)
Uridium
Wasteland
Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders

I'm not really sure which list to put Friday the 13th on. It's so bad, it's good!

Part of the deciding factor will also be if I can find interesting information about them and how well the reviews turn out.

98PaceCar
02-08-2010, 10:35 AM
No gold box AD&D games on the good list? I lost countless hours to those and still go back to them today.

Oh, and I'd probably lose LCP. There's not much of a game there. It is a direct line to the Sims though, so if you are going that route with the reviews I can understand having it there.

I might also consider Beachhead or Beachhead 2. Tough call though, will have to replay them and see if I'm remembering right.

Mayhem
02-08-2010, 12:10 PM
There's a few surprising entries there and I'm not surprised to see a somewhat US bias, but it's probably what you grew up with I assume so I can't comment there really heh. I understand what you say about "Friday the 13th", it really is dog doodah to keep it mild. Maybe for the sake of sanity, it should be in the bad list ;)

I'd pick Ultima IV over III, and I'd choose one of Maniac Mansion or Zak, not both. I'd drop Elite too; yes it's a classic game but the C64 version is not the best port in the world by a long shot, often slowing down. And I'd take Last Ninja II over the original; better gameplay, less frustration and amazingly, even better music.

Games not listed I'd consider would be Bubble Bobble, Mercenary, Project Firestart, Alter Ego and Armalyte.

Flack
02-08-2010, 12:18 PM
All good suggestions. The "good" list may end up being harder to ween down than the bad list, truth be told.

I will probably move Friday the 13th over to the bad side, just to free up a slot on the good list.

@98: I had Hillsfar and Beachhead II on my list when I was at about 45 games. I may need to wiggle things around to get them back on there.

98PaceCar
02-08-2010, 12:57 PM
Games not listed I'd consider would be Bubble Bobble, Mercenary, Project Firestart, Alter Ego and Armalyte.

I always forget about Mercenary! That was a great one!

Not Hilsfar, PLEASE not Hilsfar!! I was thinking more along the lines of Pools of Darkness or even Curse of the Azure Bonds. Hilsfar was a great concept and bridged the gap between Pool of Radiance and Curse nicely, but it wasn't good enough to be on a top list.

tom
02-08-2010, 01:05 PM
Here's the good list as it stands. I still need to cut it down to 32 titles, and there are 50 more I could add. I guess my caveat would be that I don't necessarily think that these are the best 32 games, only that they are 32 great games. Like I said, whatever gets the shaft this round will probably end up in "volume 2" ...

Archon
Barbarian: The Ultimate Warrior
Bard's Tale, The: Tales of the Unknown
Bounces
Bruce Lee
Buggy Boy
California games
Defender of the Crown
Elite
Friday the 13th
Ghostbusters
Impossible Mission
Jumpman
Kikstart
Last Ninja
Law of the West
Little Computer People
Lode Runner
M.U.L.E.
Maniac Mansion
Mayhem in Monsterland
Montezuma's Revenge
Nebulus
Paradroid
Park Patrol
Pirates!
Racing Destruction Set
Rally Speedway
Realm of Impossibility
Sentinel, The
Seven Cities of Gold
Skate or Die!
Space Taxi
Toy Bizarre
Ultima (3 or 4)
Uridium
Wasteland
Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders

I'm not really sure which list to put Friday the 13th on. It's so bad, it's good!

Part of the deciding factor will also be if I can find interesting information about them and how well the reviews turn out.

Good list so far (except Elite, a real stinker on C64, but a British number 1 title in the USA, so maybe that's why it has to be on the list), also include The Castles of Dr Creep as a good title.

As for Magnetic Scrolls and Level 9 as good as Infocom, not by a long shot (But both include good British humour). A couple of good Scrolls games are Fish and The Guild of Thieves. Level 9s highlights are Snowball and The Worm in Paradise, those could be included in a good list.

Flack
02-08-2010, 02:04 PM
You guys have convinced me to remove Elite, even though it was a favorite of mine.

I always liked Hillsfar due to the lockpicking stuff. I also liked Pools of Radiance, but not sure I played Pools of Darkness too much. I may need to revisit one of those before finalizing the list.

Here's the retooled good list:

AD&D (Hillsfar, Pools of ?)
Alter Ego
Archon
Barbarian: The Ultimate Warrior
Bard's Tale, The: Tales of the Unknown
Beach-Head II: The Dictator Strikes Back
Bounces
Bruce Lee
California games
Defender of the Crown
Ghostbusters
Impossible Mission
Jumpman
Kikstart
Last Ninja II
Law of the West
Little Computer People
Lode Runner
M.U.L.E.
Maniac Mansion
Mayhem in Monsterland
Montezumas Revenge
Nebulus
Paradroid
Park Patrol
Pirates!
Realm of Impossibility
Sentinel, The
Skate or Die!
Space Taxi
Toy Bizarre
Ultima 4
Uridium
Wasteland

That's 34; need to cut 2.

(EDIT: I may "cheat" and do something like group Last Ninja I and II and Beach Head I and II together ... haven't decided yet.)

98PaceCar
02-08-2010, 02:14 PM
You guys have convinced me to remove Elite, even though it was a favorite of mine.

I'd have to say that even if Elite wasn't the best version available, it was the best version available in the US and was still an amazing game. I'd put it back.

tom
02-08-2010, 03:11 PM
If you need to cut 2, remove Bounces and either Paradroid
or Barbarian The Ultimate Warrior (even if it includes the delicious Maria Whittaker). Barbarian II is way better anyway

Arkhan
02-08-2010, 03:24 PM
wait is this to list the WORST games or the best games?

Im confused now.

Lerxstnj
02-08-2010, 03:57 PM
Not having Dino Eggs on the good list is just a crime.

Mayhem
02-08-2010, 05:24 PM
If you need to cut 2, remove Bounces and either Paradroid
or Barbarian The Ultimate Warrior (even if it includes the delicious Maria Whittaker). Barbarian II is way better anyway

Paradroid has to stay. I like Bounces, but that was one of the surprise entries I noted earlier so being cut probably isn't so bad.

Did the Amiga version of Elite never reach the US then? Obviously the BBC version never was, the Arch version never did and neither did the NES version, all of which I'd rate above the C64 version.

98PaceCar
02-08-2010, 05:37 PM
Paradroid has to stay. I like Bounces, but that was one of the surprise entries I noted earlier so being cut probably isn't so bad.

Did the Amiga version of Elite never reach the US then? Obviously the BBC version never was, the Arch version never did and neither did the NES version, all of which I'd rate above the C64 version.



It did, but was colorized and lost a lot of it's character. It wasn't until frontier that I played anything similar in the amiga. Might be a case of not knowing better, but the 64 version stands out to me.

Sanriostar
02-08-2010, 11:02 PM
The Human Race - Mastertronic game where you have to evolve. If you check Lemon 64...you'll notice there's only 1 screenshot of the game in progress. Because it's impossible to beat the 1st level. Your character runs so slowly, and he can't jump well enough to evade the multitude of enemies.

If you get the cracked version, they made a version where you can't die. So I've actually been able to play the entire game...and I wish I hadn't bothered. Each level controls differently, but none of them are any fun at all. One of the biggest turkeys I've played on the C64.

HOLD YOUR TONGUE!
:angry::angry::angry::texaschain::grumble:
Human Race is one of my favorite 'little' C64 games made for the computer!
I had an original, Non-cracked copy of HR, *Beat* all 5 screens, (cheated on screen 3 with a trac-ball; you kinda have to to save your knuckles), and highly dig the Ron Hubbard music.
:bad-words::bad-words::bad-words:

As for crap C64 games, I'd go with Cohen's Towers, Mr. Wimpy, Frog Master, and the cart version of Congo Bongo.

Sanriostar
02-08-2010, 11:04 PM
Not having Dino Eggs on the good list is just a crime.

Agreed: just played DE for about an hour tonight via Emulator.

Arkhan
02-08-2010, 11:10 PM
legacy of the ancients and legend of blacksilver need to be on that list.

tom
02-09-2010, 03:06 AM
Of course two very underated classics are Portal (activision) and Star Fleet 1 (interstel), I would replace one of those with The Sentinel, which is an OK game, but not as deep and enjoyable as the two first mentioned.

tom
02-09-2010, 03:14 AM
I would also remove Mayhem in Monsterland, whilst probably a good game (I never played it), it was never for sale in shops. It was very shortly available in the UK via mail order only, but by that time the C64 was as dead as a dodo in the UK. They might have sold 100 copies overall.
It's like the game Pondering about Max, which was a late A8 mail order only title.

Unless one might include mail-order only titles...

Mayhem
02-09-2010, 11:45 AM
That would akin to discounting Quadrun and Crazy Climber from a list of good 2600 titles and I don't think the Atari fans would like that now ;)

So MiM stays... it's an excellent game, albeit one laced with the usual Apex difficulty, and the Rowlands sold many thousands of copies (although John was reluctant to tell me exactly how many when I asked him years ago). In fact you can now buy it new again in a special 15th anniversary edition over at Psytronik Software (http://www.binaryzone.org/retrostore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=87_92&products_id=479).

AB Positive
02-09-2010, 12:16 PM
Cohen's Towers... I don't know how similar the A8 and C64 versions are but WOW is it crap on the A8.

I can only imagine it's similarly bad on C64.

Sanriostar
02-09-2010, 04:47 PM
Cohen's Towers... I don't know how similar the A8 and C64 versions are but WOW is it crap on the A8.

I can only imagine it's similarly bad on C64.

If you can only go up one floor before some crap comes falling down on to you, have the @&$#% dog come out of the door as soon as you get off the elevator (which has a 50% success rate as it is) and have to go up 10-12 stories just to drop off a package *THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE UP ONE AT A TIME*; then yeah. It's pretty similar.:grumble:

ScottK
02-09-2010, 04:54 PM
I'm glad to see Double Dragon on your list. That game was so horrible on C64.

AB Positive
02-09-2010, 06:13 PM
If you can only go up one floor before some crap comes falling down on to you, have the @&$#% dog come out of the door as soon as you get off the elevator (which has a 50% success rate as it is) and have to go up 10-12 stories just to drop off a package *THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE UP ONE AT A TIME*; then yeah. It's pretty similar.:grumble:

... Yep that's the one! Awful. Absolutely awful.

Rob2600
02-09-2010, 07:59 PM
Suggestions for the Worst list:

Renegade III
What About Bob

Mayhem
02-09-2010, 08:54 PM
I'm glad to see Double Dragon on your list. That game was so horrible on C64.

Both of them are to be honest. Both you say? Ocean released a version only on cartridge years after Melbourne House's abortive attempt hit the shelves... ultra rare mind you. Only slightly better.

Arkhan
02-09-2010, 09:01 PM
neither double dragon on C64 is worth placing in and playing.

youd have a more enjoyable time walking outside and getting into a real fist fight.

tom
02-10-2010, 02:11 AM
Worst list:
Frenesis (Mastertronic)
The last V8 (Codemasters)
ALL Domark James Bond games
Anything by Martech (with the exception of Mega Apocalypse perhaps, it's fun for 5 minutes, and hey Samantha Fox Strip Poker in pure black and white (Artworx even managed a far better Strip Poker three years ealier))
Wizardry (The Edge...awful UK version)
Brian Bloodaxe (The Edge...)
Garfield (The Edge)
Quo Vadis (The Edge)
Risk (The Edge)
Did The Edge actually managed ONE good game.....no...

That's the thing with UK old C64 game companies, you can just mention the company, and the whole gaming catalogue of said company released only rubbish.

Arkhan
02-10-2010, 02:28 AM
In Quo Vadis' defense, the game isnt BAD, its just a giant riddle in the form of a platformer/adventure game.

Mayhem
02-10-2010, 09:00 AM
License to Kill by Domark was good, but you're right, by far and away the only decent James Bond game the company put out.

RISK by Edge was good I thought. So was Bobby Bearing (a Marble Madness like adventure game) and Inside Outing. But that's about it. Fairlight was a decent port but ran slowly. Strangely enough the Spectrum versions of some of those games were quite heralded and they are decent titles; guess the ports just sucked.

Martech had Crazy Comets and Mega Apocalypse (both by Simon Nicols), and Equinox. Uchi Mata wasn't a half bad judo game either. And then there's Zoids... it's a marmite game, some people got it and played it to death, some people didn't. I love MA btw Tom, it's better than Mad Planets and a real challenge later on. One of my favourite shooters on the C64.

tom
02-10-2010, 01:08 PM
Yeah, I quite liked Bobby Bearing too.
And yes, I like MA too, I have to admit, I even met Simon Nicol in London. But then he did Back to the Future III, urgh.

tom
02-10-2010, 03:24 PM
I don't wanna sound like a UK game slammer, of course Thalamus never released a bum game, neither did System 3, but take a look at their game releases catalogue during their C64 lifetime. Small inventory with quality releases.
Same with Scrolls, excellent text adventures, small inventory and Level 9 too, those guys hardcored on all computer platforms.
Gremlin Graphics had a few cute games....
Rainbow Arts, a German company, lots of games on C64, most of them very bad, but a few classics too, my fave being Rock 'n Roll, an excellent puzzler (But only to be enjoyed on disk). Katakis is also excellent

As for being an ffd snob, doubt it, more a 'common sense' person. Computers and fdds go hand in hand, as the C64s main markets during the 80s have shown (USA, Germany, these countries purchased fdds as the main storage medium, be it on C64, A8 (second best selling 8-bitter in Germany), or Apple ][ (USA mainly).
Yes, fdds were more expensive than the computer itself, hey they had moving parts...so that was logical that fdds were more expensive than computers.

Anyhow, how else would you do WP, or keep mailing lists, or do newsletters. Yes, I know, some masochists did that on Spectrums...the less said about this, the better.
How else would you play the Games series on C64. You gotta be silly to purchase the tape version of Summer Games 2, or World Games. With LCP (a UK best seller on TAPE), you didn't even get the whole game, game play had to be left out....what a bummer. Ever tried Defender of the Crown on tape? Yes, you heard it right, DotC was released in the UK on TAPE. Unthinkable. Again, half the game missing.

As for US companies mainly releasing strategy, I think companies like EA kept the balance quite well..EA did Patton vs Rommel, Bards Tale II and Starflight, at the same time they did Caveman Ugh-lympics, Demon Stalkers (excellent Gauntlet clone), Project Firestart, Skate or Die...etc.

BTW, thanks for the link where to purchase MIM, I'm gonna get this for sure.

Mayhem
02-10-2010, 04:56 PM
The original MiM is PAL only but I believe the rerelease has been NTSC optimised so it will also work in the US. It also had a few bugs fixed and glitches tidied up. It's MiM+ really, and definitely worth getting. Just expect to be in danger of throwing the joystick every so often due to the difficulty ;)

(But like many games, once you learn the levels and how the mechanics interact, you get better. Much better!)

I'll argue that yes, the tape version of disk heavy titles such as DotC were odd and necessary at the same time. Not ideal by a long shot I will say, but given Commodore's daft pricing for things here in the UK, even at its peak only around 10% of C64 owners had access to the disk drive. Which is why a lot of classic UK originated software was one load to account for being most likely loaded from tape.

Such classics include IK+, Wizball, Mercenary, Bubble Bobble, The Sentinel, Paradroid, Uridium, all of Minter's stuff, Thrust, Buggy Boy, Nebulus, Dropzone, Zoids, Arnie, Power Drift, Head Over Heels, Parallax, Zig Zag, First Strike... and others I'm sure will come to me once I've hit submit to this post...

Later on multiloads were more a necessity. Some were done really well: the fast loader for the Turrican games loaded in the next level in a minute or less. The ones for the Dragon's Lair games loaded in the next level while you played the previous one! But yes, some were very long and very tedious on tape...

tom
02-10-2010, 04:59 PM
The original MiM is PAL only but I believe the rerelease has been NTSC optimised so it will also work in the US. It also had a few bugs fixed and glitches tidied up. It's MiM+ really, and definitely worth getting. Just expect to be in danger of throwing the joystick every so often due to the difficulty ;)

...

I'm german and I played 1000s of UK games, I don't have to throw joysticks.

tom
02-10-2010, 05:11 PM
I'll argue that yes, the tape version of disk heavy titles such as DotC were odd and necessary at the same time. Not ideal by a long shot I will say, but given Commodore's daft pricing for things here in the UK, even at its peak only around 10% of C64 owners had access to the disk drive. Which is why a lot of classic UK originated software was one load to account for being most likely loaded from tape.

Such classics include IK+, Wizball, Mercenary, Bubble Bobble, The Sentinel, Paradroid, Uridium, all of Minter's stuff, Thrust, Buggy Boy, Nebulus, Dropzone, Zoids, Arnie, Power Drift, Head Over Heels, Parallax, Zig Zag, First Strike... and others I'm sure will come to me once I've hit submit to this post...

Later on multiloads were more a necessity. Some were done really well: the fast loader for the Turrican games loaded in the next level in a minute or less. The ones for the Dragon's Lair games loaded in the next level while you played the previous one! But yes, some were very long and very tedious on tape...

Having lived in the UK between beginning 87 and 2004, I was well aware of the Commodore scene in the UK during the 80s. I (still) own most ZZAP!s, Commodore Format, Your Commodore and Commodore Disk User,(Yes, UK had a Commodore magazine with a DISK attached to the mag, that was an excellent magazine) and some others which are all packed up. Yes, I was a frequent C64 software buyer at WHSmith, Boots and whatnot, but most C64 games I purchased on disk from my local computer shop.

But also, fdds were cheaper in the UK than in Germany, also for A8/1050s, so UK didn't have that much of a daft pricing. Lucky you didn't have to buy a 1541 in Germany, then you're crying...
I believe games on tape in the UK had more to do with the Spectrum, the best selling computer (sad, I know) in the UK, and this computer only being taped based, same as the CPC, why make special efforts for the C64. Having said that, I purchased most of my UK C64 games on fdd (from the likes of Thalamus, System 3, Rainbird...etc...shame Mastertronic didin't do disk games in UK like they did in USA), my local computer shop in Bournemouth stocked both, tape and disk (they had knowledge). If they didn't, like many US titles they did not stock, they were able to order those via the Software Link Chain catalogue (that was UKs nationwide provider/supplier of video games, anything from VCS to PC).