Shiren is most likely gonna end up being an acceptionally rare game.

[Zoltor]

I thought I would just let people here know.

No one knows what the problem is exactly, other then It's very clear It's not ATLUS's fault.


Well there are a bunch of things that will add to the rarity(it being published by ATLUS for one), but there seems to be some wierd shipping issues(nation wide) as well, also no retail stores seem to have them in stock.

On top of that, from the getgo GS was being a ass again(not allowing pre-orders, and for all we know, may not have even ordered any after release. Since 90% of the game stores in the US are owned by GS, they are the likely cuase of this problem, but it could very well be a combonation of things).

As far as I know, they can only be special ordered online(supposedly there is a small chain of stores that did get them in, but I never even heard of them before, so I can't say for certain. The store is Frys Electronics, and the locations where the game has been spotted are: WA, CA, and TX).

Both Amazon.com, and Best Buy's websites have it listed, so you pretty much have to get it from them.

[ScourDX]

Atlus game used to be rare, but lately I don't see it as much as before. Some of their games do end up in bargain bin.

[Zoltor]

Atlus game used to be rare, but lately I don't see it as much as before. Some of their games do end up in bargain bin.

I agree, basically all the post PS2, and DS/PSP games aren't worth much or are even that rare.

However this game is in a very different situastion, then all the other new(er) ATLUS games, and unles the situation changes, this is gonna be an insanely rare game.

[Zap!]

Do you mean Shiren The Wanderer for the Wii? Amazon has a February 13 list date.

[G-Boobie]

You've got a serious boner for this game, don't you Zoltor?

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I'm not sure I except ALUS logic.

[Zoltor]

Do you mean Shiren The Wanderer for the Wii? Amazon has a February 13 list date.

Well, Amazon has been clearly running like shit lately, so this is yet another thing they got wrong, since the release date is the "9th". If they're gonna accept pre-orders, they are resoposible to order them for release, not 3 days after release.

Well this explains the shipping issues people are having(the people who run amazon are incompetent).

However with that being said, doesn't change the fact actual r/l stores aren't ordering any(It's believeable that Best Buy will at some point get a few copies to put on a shelf, but most likely only a few, like how they only shelve very few box sets of DvDs).

Needless to say, this is probally gonna be more or less, a online order only item only, unless you get very lucky, which inturn will add to this game's rarity.

[PapaStu]

Just because they claim release on the 9th doesn't mean that thats when it hits. That just means when its out of the warehouse. Smaller games, from smaller companies get bent to cheaper shipping schedules and if that means some place like Amazon ships it out on the 13th then so be it. Are there going to be gobs of sale losses because its hitting 4 days after Atlus's called street date? I highly doubt it. Besides, if you care SO much, then order it from Atlus directly and never worry about this type of thing again... except when they get something held at customs (like with the last Harvest Moon games for Natsume) or the date slides to the end of the week from the beginning.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I don't understand this... You produce 300,000 units of X. How does where and how X is sold make it more common or scarce? There was always 300,000 units either way! Maybe this is this where 'ALUS' logic comes in and takes over for normal logic? LOL

[hellfire]

try finding a sealed copy of this
http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab356/theepicapple/DSCN1772.jpg

[Aussie2B]

I don't understand this... You produce 300,000 units of X. How does where and how X is sold make it more common or scarce? There was always 300,000 units either way! Maybe this is this where 'ALUS' logic comes in and takes over for normal logic? LOL

Sales do matter. If a retailer has a ton of unsold stock, they can send it back to the manufacturer and it may be destroyed.

But as long as we can all accept how rare it'll be, everything's fine. :P

[Bojay1997]

Well, Amazon has been clearly running like shit lately, so this is yet another thing they got wrong, since the release date is the "9th". If they're gonna accept pre-orders, they are resoposible to order them for release, not 3 days after release.

Well this explains the shipping issues people are having(the people who run amazon are incompetent).

However with that being said, doesn't change the fact actual r/l stores aren't ordering any(It's believeable that Best Buy will at some point get a few copies to put on a shelf, but most likely only a few, like how they only shelve very few box sets of DvDs).

Needless to say, this is probally gonna be more or less, a online order only item only, unless you get very lucky, which inturn will add to this game's rarity.

Can you please stop spreading lies and misinformation? You are partially correct in that some retailers did not get their orders of Shiren on Tuesday. Having said that, Amazon, Fry's, Best Buy on-line and many other on-line sellers have received their copies. Nothing Atlus has released in the last two years is rare and with a few minor exceptions, every one of their games has only been sold by Fry's, Gamestop and independent game shops at brick and mortar retail. Despite this fact, copies of Dark Spire and most of their other cardboard boxed DS games have declined in price and in value from MSRP. Atlus does not do limited releases of anything anymore and there is zero evidence that this game will be any different. If anything, I expect this game to plummet in value as demand will likely be pretty limited given the poor sales of the Shiren DS game. If you enjoy the game or games of this type, please feel free to buy it. Buying it because it might be rare, however, is pure stupidity.

[Bojay1997]

Sales do matter. If a retailer has a ton of unsold stock, they can send it back to the manufacturer and it may be destroyed.

But as long as we can all accept how rare it'll be, everything's fine. :P

I don't know of any distributor that destroys game stock anymore. It typically gets resold to a liquidator and ends up in front of the store discount shelves and bins at places like Kmart and Best Buy.

[old_skoolin_jim]

I agree, Atlus games aren't rare anymore. Too many fanboys since the days of the original Harvest Moon, Crusader of Centy and Rockin' Kats, which actually ARE rare. People started buying RPGs, and Atlus has been pushing substantially more copies out since the 90's.

[portnoyd]

Well, Amazon has been clearly running like shit lately, so this is yet another thing they got wrong, since the release date is the "9th". If they're gonna accept pre-orders, they are resoposible to order them for release, not 3 days after release.

Well this explains the shipping issues people are having(the people who run amazon are incompetent).

However with that being said, doesn't change the fact actual r/l stores aren't ordering any(It's believeable that Best Buy will at some point get a few copies to put on a shelf, but most likely only a few, like how they only shelve very few box sets of DvDs).

Needless to say, this is probally gonna be more or less, a online order only item only, unless you get very lucky, which inturn will add to this game's rarity.

Your logic is incredibly flawed and naive. You make assumptions with no basis in fact. See also: bojay1997's post for why.

Amazon is ran so fucking smoothly, you are insane to think otherwise.

Such hate in you. You have a problem with everything.

And holy shit, I didn't realize this is Mystery Dungeon. Who the fuck cares? If it's even half as available as the DS title, you'll still be able to find it any store in America in the bargain bin in 2 months.

[Famidrive-16]

i bet some obscure shovelware is gonna be rarer than this game.

[Snapple]

Look at Bojay, laying the smack down.

There's too much talk in general about future rarities. I used to try and make similar predictions, and it's not always so easy. If there is a future rarity, it's not going to be by a popular company like Atlus. Popular in a cult following kind of way at least.

[Kyle15]

Look at Bojay, laying the smack down.

There's too much talk in general about future rarities. I used to try and make similar predictions, and it's not always so easy. If there is a future rarity, it's not going to be by a popular company like Atlus. Popular in a cult following kind of way at least.

Exactly. Determining rarities is pretty hit-or-miss with more recent games. Here's a little something everyone should keep in mind: just because you're having a hard time locating something at retail doesn't automatically give it "rare" status. Raiden 3 is a good example, but it may not be very common down the line. Uncommon maybe, but not rare.

[Zap!]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the days of $10,000 games are over. What I mean is that I highly doubt that any of this (or last's) generation's games will ever be worth a lot of money. With the internet and collectors and all, every game that's "limited" will be bought by collectors, and kept mint or even sealed. No way a "Stadium Events" slips by the radar these days.

[Zoltor]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the days of $10,000 games are over. What I mean is that I highly doubt that any of this (or last's) generation's games will ever be worth a lot of money. With the internet and collectors and all, every game that's "limited" will be bought by collectors, and kept mint or even sealed. No way a "Stadium Events" slips by the radar these days.

I see what you're saying, and I kind've agree on the value aspect(after all look at MTG cards, any card made later then 1995 can't be worth more then $20, basically same thing with video games, but with a later date as the cutoff point).

However since when does rarity, and value coincide with each other, I was just hinting at the rarity, that's all, not the value parse.

PS. It has just been confirmed, GS wont be ordering any at all, so for whoever wants a copy(to play or otherwise), the only sure way is online(Amazon/Best buy, and such).

[PapaStu]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the days of $10,000 games are over. What I mean is that I highly doubt that any of this (or last's) generation's games will ever be worth a lot of money. With the internet and collectors and all, every game that's "limited" will be bought by collectors, and kept mint or even sealed. No way a "Stadium Events" slips by the radar these days.

There will be some versions that are just going to be hard to get. MGS3: LE is a great example. There are others that are as produced as the retail version (Halo 3 Legendary). Stadium Events was a game that was released and pulled, unless we stumble into something that has the same kind of release cycle we'll never know. So far this generation (or last (PS2/XB/GC), or the one before that (DC/PS/N64) hasn't had this experience.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I'm sorry, but it's EXCEPTIONALLY

AGH.

[kupomogli]

Yeah. This game isn't going to be rare.

Final Fantasy Fables Chocobo's Dungeon for the Wii sold like crap and it's a Squaresoft title. This is from a popular publisher and everyone loves Chocobos. Atlus has the fans that know the kinds of games they release and that's it, it's not close to as big as the Square Enix fanbase then there's Shiren which had a previous game that no one bought.

It really boils down to if people want the game. If Atlus released the game on a limited printing and people actually wanted the game, then yeah it'd probably be rare, but then Atlus would probably reprint the game. This isn't the case. Something like the Demon's Souls Deluxe Edition which Demon's Souls sold better than Atlus predicted but the Deluxe Edition was a limited print run, while they're still selling the standard edition. The Deluxe Edition is rare, while the standard edition won't be later on in the future(as it's not right now either just 59.99.)

[Zap!]

I see what you're saying, and I kind've agree on the value aspect(after all look at MTG cards, any card made later then 1995 can't be worth more then $20, basically same thing with video games, but with a later date as the cutoff point).

However since when does rarity, and value coincide with each other, I was just hinting at the rarity, that's all, not the value parse.

PS. It has just been confirmed, GS wont be ordering any at all, so for whoever wants a copy(to play or otherwise), the only sure way is online(Amazon/Best buy, and such).

Yeah, it's kind of like comic books and baseball cards. Growing up in the 80's, I heard horror stories from my dad saying how his mom threw away all his Joe DiMaggio cards, etc. In fact, every 80's kid heard that story, so we kept everything, decreasing the value.

Rarity and value due coincide with each other a lot. If a game has only 500 copies made, it's going to be worth money, period. However, you have a point. An Entex Adventurevision is not half as rare as it's led to be. I have many things rarer, yet that system is worth $1,000+ because everyone wants one.

[TonyTheTiger]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the days of $10,000 games are over. What I mean is that I highly doubt that any of this (or last's) generation's games will ever be worth a lot of money. With the internet and collectors and all, every game that's "limited" will be bought by collectors, and kept mint or even sealed. No way a "Stadium Events" slips by the radar these days.

Yeah, and even then, Stadium Events was an anomaly. That kind of thing wasn't even common back then. So holding out for lightning to strike twice is probably time better spent elsewhere. It could happen, sure. But it's so unlikely that it's not even worth thinking about. Mostly because it's a lose/lose situation for most people.

Situation A: You live day by day until you notice that the one random game you passed by and thought nothing of is now worth $10,000. You kick yourself over and over for passing it up as if you were even remotely capable of predicting something like that. It's self flagellation for nothing.

Situation B: You go out of your way to buy games that might become rare for fear that you'll end up in Situation A. Eventually you realize the money you spent on worthless games totals equal to or more than the cost of the anomaly should it have actually manifested, which it probably never did. So you pretty much made no profit whatsoever.

Since it's impossible to predict this stuff, the only real winners are the people who just by dumb luck end up obtaining a copy before the situation comes to light. It's effectively equivalent to winning the lottery. For every $30-$60 game you buy with the hope that it becomes both rare and valuable, you might as well buy $30-$60 worth of lottery numbers. Your odds with the lottery might actually be better. And the payout will probably be better, too.


There will be some versions that are just going to be hard to get. MGS3: LE is a great example. There are others that are as produced as the retail version (Halo 3 Legendary). Stadium Events was a game that was released and pulled, unless we stumble into something that has the same kind of release cycle we'll never know. So far this generation (or last (PS2/XB/GC), or the one before that (DC/PS/N64) hasn't had this experience.

Exactly. The days that a game turns out to be rare merely by virtue of a stupidly small print run are probably over. I'm not even sure a publisher today would even bother printing fewer than 50,000 copies. The market is saturated and there are minimum print runs to abide by. And considering what it costs to develop and distribute a game, even a budget one, printing fewer than 50,000 is probably not even sound business.

I think that if we do end up seeing genuinely rare games it'll have to be due to some unforeseeable quirk. Either a massive recall (which didn't do much for Kakuto Chojin), a weird mid-print cancellation (NCAA College Basketball 2k3), or some other random occurrence.

I'll bet that the things that will turn out to be genuinely rare and worth solid dough will be things that you can't obtain without committing a crime. The strictly controlled Pokemon DS cards used to distribute special Pokemon at Toys 'R' Us events, for instance. But I doubt there are many collectors out there willing to hold up a toy store. Once it's out there and trades hands among collectors, then it's out there. But somebody with big balls, small brains, and questionable ethics has to be the one to start that ball rolling.

[maxlords]

I'd think that Demon's Souls Deluxe Ed. is probably THE rarest thing Atlus has made in quite some time...and it's not all that rare. In fact...most things are just not that rare anymore. I suspect that random PSP and DS titles are gonna be what's rarest in the next few years.

[kupomogli]

Here's a game that may be somewhat rare.

Holy Invasion of Privacy Badman, What Did I Do to Deserve This 2. Why? We couldn't even get 1000 votes for the first to get released at 19.99. Second is because of the stupid name change. What Did I Do to Deserve This, My Lord 2.

This will probably receive a limited printing and if it sells somewhat well it'll be reprinted. If it's anything like peoples interest in the first game. This game may be rare. However, I'm not going to be betting that it is or not. I'll be picking it up because the game actually interests me.

[PapaStu]

Y

I think that if we do end up seeing genuinely rare games it'll have to be due to some unforeseeable quirk. Either a massive recall (which didn't do much for Kakuto Chojin), a weird mid-print cancellation (NCAA College Basketball 2k3), or some other random occurrence.

I'll bet that the things that will turn out to be genuinely rare and worth solid dough will be things that you can't obtain without committing a crime. The strictly controlled Pokemon DS cards used to distribute special Pokemon at Toys 'R' Us events, for instance. But I doubt there are many collectors out there willing to hold up a toy store. Once it's out there and trades hands among collectors, then it's out there. But somebody with big balls, small brains, and questionable ethics has to be the one to start that ball rolling.

I forgot about NCAA 2K3 (which I have) and it'll never get to a Stadium Events level.

The Pokemon download carts arn't even games. There are a bunch of different ones out there (and I do have one of them) and it doesn't take being a frito bandito to get ahold of them. They are worth something, but most of them have date windows of working and since they arn't games their value falls to either Pokemon lovers, or demo collectors. Not having a released game means more to a DS collector than the demos do (unless they're crazy like me and a few others). Some Nintendo reps don't care and let them get out, some GameStop stores don't send them back. The rest come from those questionable ethics people.... but its pretty hard to tell, since most DS demos are uncommon at best and there normally are only a few people that are 'first' sellers.

[Flashback2012]

I thought I would just let people here know.

Thank you public service announcement, Mr. Company Pitchman for all things Atlus. It's good to know they have stellar individuals like you pimping out their products for them. Actually, if I were them, I'd be embarrassed that you are such an advocate of theirs considering your inability to use a spell checker and thinking "acceptionally" is the appropriate spelling of the word. Oh public schools, how far you've fallen (and if you retort back with you being educated in a private school...that's even WORSE).


No one knows what the problem is exactly, other then It's very clear It's not ATLUS's fault.

No, no...never is. The evil world is out to sink Atlus' ship and make sure they never ascend to the pinnacle of publishing heights to rub elbows with the likes of Activision or Electronic Arts.


Well there are a bunch of things that will add to the rarity(it being published by ATLUS for one), but there seems to be some wierd shipping issues(nation wide) as well, also no retail stores seem to have them in stock.

See, I don't buy that whole "Atlus published it so it's a certainty it's going to be rare" argument. That may have been the case 10-15 years ago but Atlus is a lot bigger than it was back then. Their output for the DS alone exceeds their output from their entire line from just 10 years ago. If I had to bet, I'd say a title put out from Agetec or Natsume has a higher chance of being rare in the future than an Atlus release.

As for the "weird" shipping issue, I checked GS's site and double checked Best Buy's site just to make sure and both of them have it listed for sale. Best Buy's site openly says "Available Online Only" so clearly it's just not evil ole Gamestop who's mucking things up. It's certainly available, you just have to get it online and can't get it in their B&M stores...yet. Hold on, there's an icon for that here somewhere....ah, here we go.... :sob:


On top of that, from the getgo GS was being a ass again(not allowing pre-orders, and for all we know, may not have even ordered any after release.

Here is the actual link (http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=76742) that dispels your ignorant notion that GS does not the game in stock and available for order. I don't know the reason why it's online only any more than you do but it is NOT just GS who is doing this. As for not allowing pre-orders, well they've never been one to allow pre-orders for a game that's already available and I'm sure other places that allow pre-orders such as Target and Best Buy have similar policies in place. I don't know if they had a reservation SKU for the game prior to it's release or not, and if they didn't then that's what...6 pre-orders they lost out on?


Since 90% of the game stores in the US are owned by GS, they are the likely cuase of this problem, but it could very well be a combonation of things).

It's a damn shame you're allowed to continue to spread your lies and misinformation like you do while hate-mongering on companies that don't do everything in their power to sate your desires 110%. What irritates me the most is you have me playing devil's advocate for GS. A lot of their ill reputation is self inflicted but like the last time we went around with this, your "factual" intel on them is grossly misleading and inaccurate.

We're talking about Shiren for Wii, a NEW game. Before we proceed, let's make sure it's stuck in your damn head that we're talking about a NEW game here. Now here's your concede, GS DOES own 90% of the game stores in the US, as there are no longer any other major competitors left such as Funcoland or EB. HOWEVER, as a retailer of NEW GAMES, they are hardly the only player in town (no pun intended). Here, let me show ya...

Hey look at that, Wal-Mart has the game in stock too! (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Shiren-the-Wanderer-Wii-Wii/11395516)

Even Sears has it... (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05827379000P?vName=Entertainment&cName=Wii&sName=Wii+Games&keyword=shiren)

and so does Kmart! (http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_018V002084289000P?keyword=shiren)

It doesn't say on any of those sites if it's available for pick up in stores or not but if it's not, then apparently those companies are just like Best Buy and are collaborating with GS to keep that game out of stores and only be available online. Surely, this New World Order of gaming retail will snuff out Atlus and their ilk and keep their precious releases out of the hands of poor gamers like Zoltor!


As far as I know, they can only be special ordered online(supposedly there is a small chain of stores that did get them in, but I never even heard of them before, so I can't say for certain. The store is Frys Electronics, and the locations where the game has been spotted are: WA, CA, and TX).

Both Amazon.com, and Best Buy's websites have it listed, so you pretty much have to get it from them.

I really dunno what's so special about going to any of the sites I listed, clicking on "Add to Cart" and finishing the process of completing the online purchase. As for Fry's, there aren't any in my area but I've heard of them. There is such a thing known as regional businesses, not every chain business has locations coast to coast you know (though some places like In-N-Out and Jack In the Box need to be :bigmac:)

[TonyTheTiger]

I just think the "rare alarm" has become too much of a cliche to take seriously. If every sounding of the rare alarm were accurate then pretty much every game not published by EA or Activision would be impossible to find.

[lagartija_nick]

There was a time when Atlus was very self aware of the fear they were putting into fans with there ," limited print run, pre-order now because the game will be gone from retail and twice as much on e-bay in 5 months" marketing.

Things changed with Persona 3. So much so that I have seen the game in bargain bins for $9.99.

That was quite a shock at the time. Atlus actually over-produced a title.

Persona 4 and Demon Souls were big for the company too.

The company is moving into the mainstream even if the games remain quirky.

It seems the company has fully ditched its limited print run philosophy when it fully committed to the current generation of consoles.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think they're still aware of it and they're pretty good at marketing some of their stuff that way.

Just look at Devil Summoner 2. A big box, a plushie, and an individually numbered package. Not bad for $40.

What Atlus didn't mention is that those numbers? They went up past 60,000. Possibly as high as 70 or 80.

They never outright say that their stuff is "rare" or ever will be but they certainly know how to play to that audience.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I haven't seen a box over 20,000... And I was told the run was ~55,000. Are there pictures, a blurb from Atlus or something?

[jeffg]

i seen it in store at Gamestop yesterday, so some stores must have gotten it. It was on the shelf at 2 of my local stores. I almost bought it as i hadn't seen it anywhere else. maybe I will trade some of my junk with that trade in special they have going

[Flashback2012]

i seen it in store at Gamestop yesterday, so some stores must have gotten it. It was on the shelf at 2 of my local stores. I almost bought it as i hadn't seen it anywhere else. maybe I will trade some of my junk with that trade in special they have going

That can't possibly be true, you have to be lying! There is no way the evil empire that is Gamestop would have that game in stock in their stores, that flies in the face of their underhanded agenda to be the catalytic reason for Atlus' ruination! Well me and Zolty ain't gonna be fooled, we have our anti-Gamestop tin foil hats on and it r protects our sensitive brainwaves from your deceptions, lies, and misdirections! :drinking:

Seriously though...you just wait. Mark the words of good ole Zolty, Holy Messiah and Patron Saint of the ALUS faithful, this game will be "acceptionally" rare in 10 years time. While the rest of you mouth breathers scramble to find a disc only version that you'll most likely have to pay out the arse for, he'll lord over you and gloat with his shiny CIB copy in hand. Then, and only then, will he tell you he was right all along about GS and their wicked ways....yup, 10 years from now you'll all learn the hard way and should have heeded the words of Zolty the Enlightened!! :angry::grrr::grumble::bad-words::vamp::onfire:

[pseudonym]

Ouch. Poor, poor, Zoltor.

I am interested in this game though, hopefully I can grab it before they disappear forever and I have to pay $100 for it on Ebay.

[TonyTheTiger]

I haven't seen a box over 20,000... And I was told the run was ~55,000. Are there pictures, a blurb from Atlus or something?

No pictures I can point to and the 55,000 number sounds familiar to me, too. But it's apparently not accurate since when the game came out and people were reporting their numbers, once a few started reporting boxes well into the 60,000s a shitstorm ensued. As far as I know, there is no official word on exactly how many were made. People were asking Atlus reps to spill the beans but they kept quiet about it. I find that telling because it shows just how well Atlus knows how to play the market.

Usually when somebody individually numbers something it's, say, 1053/10,000. They pretty much let you know it's 1 out of whatever. The numbering itself doesn't mean much. Whether 10,000 units are individually numbered or not, there are still 10,000 units. It doesn't effect rarity in any sense but it does imply "This is it. There aren't many and you have one out of X. You know we aren't going to make any more because we're flat out telling you we only made X." It would look silly to see something numbered 403,332/1,500,000.

I'm not saying Atlus is being disingenuous. In fact, what they're doing is both pretty cool (it is a nice package, after all) and pretty smart business. But they are taking advantage of people's natural misconceptions of what it means when something is individually numbered. The number doesn't mean jack shit when there are countless copies out there. And it means even less when you don't know exactly how many were printed in total. At that point they may as well have randomly assigned numbers and it would have the same effect.

[kupomogli]

Fifth down on google(sixth if you count branching links.)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=acceptionally&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

Anyways. I wonder if anyone has found any duplicate numbers on DS2.

[TonyTheTiger]

You want to know what's funny about this whole thing?

All the speculation about what games might become rare and right on Rosenqueen's website is the Mana Khemia 2 Alchemic Art Collection, a SKU openly stated to be limited to 2000 units, and yet 500 copies have been sitting there for months. They can't seem to give them away. Go figure.

[heybtbm]

"acceptionally"

...heh.

[ScourDX]

You want to know what's funny about this whole thing?

All the speculation about what games might become rare and right on Rosenqueen's website is the Mana Khemia 2 Alchemic Art Collection, a SKU openly stated to be limited to 2000 units, and yet 500 copies have been sitting there for months. They can't seem to give them away. Go figure.

Few things to consider

1. Lack of Advertising
2. Not everyone likes to order online
3. A lot of gamers moving on to next gen

The game will sold out eventually. I am waiting Rosenqueen to have another 50%-70% off sales.

[Icarus Moonsight]

That's like an LE though. A rare version isn't really the same as a rare game overall. Hey, I know that look! Leave Stadium Events outta this! LOL

[TonyTheTiger]

It's an interesting point because it reveals a real truth about the nature of value. There isn't a whole lot of consistency. One rare variant is worth $13,000 while another is worth...about as much as the common version. It's not easy to predict what games will be rare. But even that is easier than predicting what rare games will be in demand.

[Archimboldi]

*goes to amazon*

*adds 999 copies to cart*

well, there are at least 999 copies out there. I thought this thread would be about a license dispute causing the game to get pulled from shelves or something.

if there is large enough demand for this game in the future Atlus would just reprint it, like they do with any game that starts to sneak up in Ebay value. Just like they've been doing for years.

It's almost like rarity of their older games was part of their long term business model. Now any time an atlus game is on the horizon, you see people commenting "ah, gotta get it now! It's atlus! This game will be worth $500 in two months!" I wonder how much of their stock moves on impulse buys. And Atlus themselves sometimes play around with this-- look at the Devil Summoner 2 box with the Jack Frost plush. They played the scarcity of that up sooooo much. I totally fell for it myself. One of the big selling points was how they were all individually numbered--- I got number 35,000 and change. I guess they made about 40,000 of them and now they don't go for more then retail and have even been marked down to $19.99 at gamestop. LOL

[maxlords]

Well, I saw Shirens surfacing at local EBs starting on Wednesday. I think they just took a bit longer to ship to brick and mortar stores. Course, most only got one, but it's a random dungeon game...so meh.

They also got one copy of Sands of Destruction, and Nostalgia, and and and. In fact a lot of the local stores get one or two copies of anything that's not massively pimped...and don't get more unless it sells in the first few days.

I think there aren't gonna be very many rare games from now on, and even IF there are...it'll take years for the markets and stock levels on em to vary enough to actually find out if they really are rare.

As for Devil Summoner 2...wish it was $20 here...I'd pick it up. But I just want to play it.

[Icarus Moonsight]

My lowest SMT-DS2 number is one of the 2000's... I've seen copies in the ranges of 9k, 13-14k, and 16-19k with the actual boxes in hand. Nothing higher, yet. In total, around a dozen copies, possibly a smidge more. So far, I have no reason to dismiss the 55k production claimed. I also have no reason to consider it absolute truth either though. When you consider the factors at play, you have to think, on some level and time down the road, that this game is going to explode. It is well overlooked, and despite some folks not taking to the Devil Summoner series as much as other SMT releases, time has a habit of changing minds.

Still no Shiren found while out and about. The fact that they are showing up is a good thing. I'm sure that if I really need to pick one up, a trip to Fry's will be all that's required.

[Archimboldi]

derp, I have a 14k number. hadn't checked it in a while, brain crossed wires, false alarm!

[mb7241]

I have 2 Devil Summoner 2's...a sealed one numbered 0992 and an opened CIB numbered 23123.

Haven't looked for Shiren at all yet...though I agree, trying to pick a rarity before its release is going out on a limb a bit...

[bcks007]

My copy is 36606 for DS2

There was a topic on GF's in the first month about it, the numbers went up to 41,xxx.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Thanks for sharing that! We got into the 40s just overnight... Maybe it does blow past 55k... I've tried some google-fu, but I only managed to nunchuck myself in the head.

[kupomogli]

As late as I got my Devil Summoner 2. It's number 1443.

[Bojay1997]

Well, I saw Shirens surfacing at local EBs starting on Wednesday. I think they just took a bit longer to ship to brick and mortar stores. Course, most only got one, but it's a random dungeon game...so meh.

They also got one copy of Sands of Destruction, and Nostalgia, and and and. In fact a lot of the local stores get one or two copies of anything that's not massively pimped...and don't get more unless it sells in the first few days.

I think there aren't gonna be very many rare games from now on, and even IF there are...it'll take years for the markets and stock levels on em to vary enough to actually find out if they really are rare.

As for Devil Summoner 2...wish it was $20 here...I'd pick it up. But I just want to play it.

Of course, GS/EB has 3500 stores in the US, so even two copies per store and whatever pre-orders they took is around 7,500 copies just at Gamestop, not to mention their on-line unit which is probably hundreds more copies.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

just got my ds2 yesterday, and it's 1021. gonna keep it sealed.

[TonyTheTiger]

Just to crunch some numbers...

Magic Knight Rayearth (Saturn) = R4. According to Wikipedia it had a print run of 15,000. Granted, Wikipedia isn't always the most accurate but, given the circumstances of the game's release, 15,000 doesn't sound unreasonably low.

Even if the 55,000 number for Devil Summoner 2 is spot on, that means there are almost 4 times as many copies as Rayearth. So if Rayearth is an R4, what would that make DS2? Think about it.

And considering how many people are keeping their Devil Summoner 2 copies sealed in anticipation of some huge appreciation in value, these things will be able to be easily found in pristine condition for years to come.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Bit apples/oranges there. As far as PS2 games go, 55k is very low. On the average, PS2 also has much more traction than the Saturn ever thought about trying for. When the generation that grew up with a PS2 as their first game system get jobs and nostalgia pangs... I can stop. You get the idea. :D

[Aussie2B]

If Rayearth truly got 15,000, then an R4 seems too low. There are plenty of games in the database that got supposedly several times more copies than that yet are placed at around the same rarity, maybe even higher.

As for DS2, I got 31,xxx, and I even pre-ordered from Amazon long in advance. They were definitely playing up their reputation, but I was aware of that when buying. It's just starting to irk me explaining to fans for the bazillionth time that "omg Atlus = rare!" isn't true. How many times do I have to point out games like Metal Saga and Steambot Chronicles before people get it through their heads?

[TonyTheTiger]

Bit apples/oranges there. As far as PS2 games go, 55k is very low. On the average, PS2 also has much more traction than the Saturn ever thought about trying for. When the generation that grew up with a PS2 as their first game system get jobs and nostalgia pangs... I can stop. You get the idea. :D

It depends. If we're going to talk about raw numbers then the rarity isn't going to be affected by the console. 15,000 on the Saturn is the same as 15,000 on the PS2 which is the same as 15,000 on the Colecovision.

If you want to talk about potential value, yeah, PS2 collecting will be more popular than Saturn collecting but putting your eggs in that basket is one hell of a gamble.

Consider that if the 15,000 number is accurate for Rayearth, that doesn't put it at much higher a number than Panzer Dragoon Saga. But PDS is at least three times more valuable than Rayearth. We don't really know what drives demand for one "rare" game as opposed to another. The game's overall quality is one standard but Devil Summoner 2 hasn't exactly gotten rave reviews. It's a good game but it's no sleeper hit like PDS.

I could imagine a situation where a later game in the series is released sometime down the line and ends up becoming wildly popular sparking a gold rush for DS2 but that's pretty far fetched, I think.


If Rayearth truly got 15,000, then an R4 seems too low. There are plenty of games in the database that got supposedly several times more copies than that yet are placed at around the same rarity, maybe even higher.

Yeah, it's possible. I noticed a weird quirk in some of the ratings myself. Raystorm is listed as an R7 yet supposedly sold tens of thousands, multiple times more than the R6 Panzer Dragoon Saga.


As for DS2, I got 31,xxx, and I even pre-ordered from Amazon long in advance. They were definitely playing up their reputation, but I was aware of that when buying. It's just starting to irk me explaining to fans for the bazillionth time that "omg Atlus = rare!" isn't true. How many times do I have to point out games like Metal Saga and Steambot Chronicles before people get it through their heads?

Exactly. Atlus isn't stupid. They know how to play on the misconception. Atlus games get pretty healthy print runs these days. People need to snap out of the habit of associating "quirky Japanese game" with "OMG rare!" It isn't 1996 anymore. Anime is mainstream now.

[Ed Oscuro]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the days of $10,000 games are over.
SE and Kizuna Encounter are due to dumb / fanatical buyers, not so much due to the circumstances of the games' print runs themselves. Demand (and perceptions of demand) is pretty much the beginning and the end of that story.

[PapaStu]

People, Devil Summoner # discussions are /= to Shiren = ZOMG R@r3 thread currently in progress. If you want a Devil Summoner thread, start (or bump the old one) and i'll be glad to cut these posts back into that thread.

[Bojay1997]

SE and Kizuna Encounter are due to dumb / fanatical buyers, not so much due to the circumstances of the games' print runs themselves. Demand (and perceptions of demand) is pretty much the beginning and the end of that story.

I don't know if I'd lump Kizuna in there. The Euro/English version that is in demand had a miniscule print run of as few as a dozen or less total copies. I think there are maybe 5-6 total known in collector's hands. Yes, you can always get the Japanese version or the MVS kit or cartridge for subtantially less, but there is no denying that it is rare and in demand, particularly on a system that is collected by quite a few people.

[Icarus Moonsight]

People, Devil Summoner # discussions are /= to Shiren = ZOMG R@r3 thread currently in progress. If you want a Devil Summoner thread, start (or bump the old one) and i'll be glad to cut these posts back into that thread.

I thought as much as well, I was trying to wrap it up. Apparently, that's not happening. LOL

I vote for a split. I started a thread for this in Modern gaming here: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141583
Fill 'er up please. :D

Atlus nuts do as Atlus nuts does and all...