"Criterion Collection" for games?

[NayusDante]

Films seem to live forever, but games are often forgotten once their console generation ends. Things like Virtual Console come close, but there's never any extras or even a guarantee that the game is playable come next console generation.

It's easier with movies because the formats live at least twice as long. Look at how long VHS was around, and DVD may match or exceed that. You can go to your local library and rent a copy of a classic film. People still watch old movies because they're so accessible.

It baffles me why we haven't seen a similar implementation for games. All of the elements are in place, but the execution hasn't been nailed yet. I want to see a company license games for definitive releases with the same extras that DVDs get, like commentaries and documentaries, and release it on a standard format that will be playable for at least 20 years. Blu-Ray seems like a good option, given the Java implementation (a BD-J NES emulator was made, and it worked on PS3 until a patch broke it).

Imagine a definitive edition of Final Fantasy I. Include every released variation of the game on one disk, with the soundtrack, art, and documentaries accessible from DVD-style menus. Include a recorded playthrough with audio commentaries.


They do it for movies, they do it for music, but not for games. Heck, even literature gets reprinted with forewords, extra articles, and new illustrations. Does this bother anyone else?

[DefaultGen]

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[buzz_n64]

Yes it does, but often the popular games do get re-released on virtual console, or a hand held system like the mario advance series. I would totally buy a Super Mario Bros. director's edition with commentary by Miyamoto, with artwork, soundtrack by Koji Kondo. I think people view games differently because of the technological gap people see. A film from 1979 may look as good on screen as one from 1995 in rare occasions, but the same isn't true for games. We are getting closer to this appreciation for classic games, and I think the virtual console is a good start, and the next generation might actually demand a "criterion" edition for their games.

[DefaultGen]

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[scooterb23]

I can't wait for the Pong commentary track... "Well, here, we wanted the ball to move up and to the right..."

*Me begins spasming at the thought of slabbed, graded, sealed, Criterion-only game collectors*

[Shadow Kisuragi]

We are? Every time I talk to kids these days, they make it seem like their 360 and PS3 games from 2006 are unplayable, let alone older games.
I stepped into Play-N-Trade the other day and a kid asked me "I've never seen one of those. What is that?"

I had to explain to him what a Nintendo 64 was, since the kid grew up on Playstation 2. The system is only 10 years old and it's already lost in the sands of time.

[TonyTheTiger]

The issue is that it's not so easy to move a game to a new format.

With film, it's a fairly simple process to put it on VHS, and then on laserdisc, then on DVD, and then on Blu-ray. Games, being computer software, have to be coded to interact with the hardware. There's a lot of work involved with "porting" games that doesn't exist with film.

[NayusDante]

The issue is that it's not so easy to move a game to a new format.

With film, it's a fairly simple process to put it on VHS, and then on laserdisc, then on DVD, and then on Blu-ray. Games, being computer software, have to be coded to interact with the hardware. There's a lot of work involved with "porting" games that doesn't exist with film.

Actually, as long as the platform is properly emulated, there's no actual "porting" work.

[Shadow Kisuragi]

Correct - you have to create an emulator to work with the current hardware. Hardware can be extremely hard to emulate, especially if it is proprietary, and some games are poorly coded to interact with the hardware. There is also timing to consider, along with new drivers. Also mentioned is that platform patching could become an issue and break the emulator, so the emulator would need to be on a stable release to ensure that it properly works.

I think that this could possibly work if there was a dedicated handheld with PnP and adapters that supported the various control types, but that would be a feat in itself. This is not even considering licensing.

[buzz_n64]

Correct - you have to create an emulator to work with the current hardware. Hardware can be extremely hard to emulate, especially if it is proprietary, and some games are poorly coded to interact with the hardware. There is also timing to consider, along with new drivers. Also mentioned is that platform patching could become an issue and break the emulator, so the emulator would need to be on a stable release to ensure that it properly works.

I think that this could possibly work if there was a dedicated handheld with PnP and adapters that supported the various control types, but that would be a feat in itself. This is not even considering licensing.

Film has it's own set of problems. Black and white film had to be colorized, film has to be cleaned up, shadows and lighting fixed, analog film to digital. Games don't have these issues.

[Richter Belmount]

I can't wait for the Pong commentary track... "Well, here, we wanted the ball to move up and to the right..."

*Me begins spasming at the thought of slabbed, graded, sealed, Criterion-only game collectors*

Lolz Criterion collection for simplistic games? Maybe there will be a commentary on the nuances of the evolution of mega man from 8 bit to 8 bit.

[NayusDante]

I'm not sure that a handheld would be the right path. I entertained the thought of releasing individual games on dedicated handhelds, but the EPA/Greenpeace would have a fit and not all games should be experienced on handhelds. I don't think that Criterion released any UMDs...

Right now, I'm going to say that there's four *possible* platforms for something like this:

1. BD-J - NES emulation has already been done to an extent, but it was far from perfect. Still, holds potential.
2. Wii - I'm holding strong to the belief that the Wii could be the VCR of gaming, living for 15+ years. I can certainly see them keeping the hardware spec around for a long time, possibly replacing the DVD drive with encrypted USB drives.
3. Flash - We can still play back Flash content from the 90s, and I wouldn't be surprised if they got it to where console emulators were doable. Of course, it's a CPU hog and needs polish, but there's potential there too.
4. PS1 - Yes, you can still play PS1 games on modern hardware. The PS3 Slim still has PS1 disk compatibility, right? It's entirely software-emulated, and there's lots of power there.




Lolz Criterion collection for simplistic games? Maybe there will be a commentary on the nuances of the evolution of mega man from 8 bit to 8 bit.

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DO WANT! That's actually one of the examples I was going to put...

[Richter Belmount]

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131075&highlight=Criterion+Collection

Heres a link to a older thread with custom covers , I personally think criterion collection would have more story driven games. The only disappointing thing about this thread it doesn't have I have no mouth and I must scream , Metal gear solid 2 or Silent Hill 2.

[scooterb23]

Black and white film had to be colorized

The hell it does...who are you? Ted Turner?

The rest of your arguement, I'll agree with, but gah...colorized films.

[TonyTheTiger]

It's just that video games aren't movies. You can't do a 1:1 comparison and expect the results to be the same.

Example: DVD bonus features often include deleted scenes. It's pretty cool seeing them, even if they might be missing some special effects or other finishing touches.

You can't do that nearly as effectively with video games. What are you going to do? Include that half completed level as a "bonus"? The level that isn't beatable because there are significant parts missing and might actually lock up or crash because the math isn't up to snuff?

Once in a while it's interesting to see what could have been, like playing the Sonic 2 beta, but that isn't exactly something I'd expect people to spend money on. Especially since video games are similar to cartoons in the sense that most of the really interesting stuff ends up on the cutting room floor before much work is actually done. They'd probably only be able to show off art assets and storyboards in most cases.

You can't even do commentaries in the same way. Movies have predictable pacing so they can overlay a recording of people talking about what's happening on screen at that moment. You can't do that with video games. You may as well just add a separate video of people talking about the game, which they already do on occasion.

[Richter Belmount]

Sounds pretty boring would the collection only be a look at the technical aspect of video games or how about the actual content? I mean forget movies why not just film all the directors techniques instead of showing and discussing the film?

Everyone turn in your thesis on pitfall now at the end of the year XD.

[Bojay1997]

It's just that video games aren't movies. You can't do a 1:1 comparison and expect the results to be the same.

Example: DVD bonus features often include deleted scenes. It's pretty cool seeing them, even if they might be missing some special effects or other finishing touches.

You can't do that nearly as effectively with video games. What are you going to do? Include that half completed level as a "bonus"? The level that isn't beatable because there are significant parts missing and might actually lock up or crash because the math isn't up to snuff?

Once in a while it's interesting to see what could have been, like playing the Sonic 2 beta, but that isn't exactly something I'd expect people to spend money on. Especially since video games are similar to cartoons in the sense that most of the really interesting stuff ends up on the cutting room floor before much work is actually done. They'd probably only be able to show off art assets and storyboards in most cases.

I think you hit the central reasons why this is very unlikely to ever happen. I love games and video game history, but I have no interest in buying discs full of concept art and buggy, unfinished code.

The whole concept behind Criterion Collection originally was to release lesser known films on laserdisc in the highest possible quality audio and video quality available at the time. Without Criterion Collection spending the money to do the transfers and market and release the films, they wouldn't be available to most film buffs other than going to screenings at archives or spending tons of money to buy an 8mm, 16mm or even a 35mm projector and a print. Games don't have the same limitations.

With very few exceptions for ridiculously rare games, anyone can buy any old game they want on Ebay or at a swap meet as well as used consoles, often for far below what the game or console originally sold for, in the best possible version available, the original version. Buying games on an emulator is not the best possible version available and as such, it makes no financial or practical sense to build a collectors oriented business around it. If you're gonna emulate the console or games, there is no reason not to just buy the game as a download on the various console services or even some of the Gametap type services.

[TonyTheTiger]

We kind of already do have something that amounts to special bonuses. They just aren't the 1:1 equivalent of what you get in movies. We have things like alternate costumes, maybe alternate music, even right down to a basic options screen. Those are the kinds of bonus features that work within the medium.

We can't expect films to come with an option that lets you select what Johnny Depp is wearing. And we can't expect video games to offer a commentary track. Different mediums are different. Let's appreciate what we can do with video games rather than dwell on what we can't do. Alternate costumes can't be done anywhere else.

[j_factor]

I think the Zelda Master Quest disc, Tomb Raider Anniversary, NiGHTS for PS2, Dragon's Lair for DVD and Blu-ray, and Broken Sword Director's Cut were close to Criterion releases; not in the circumstances of their release, but in content. If there was to be a gaming equivalent of of Criterion, it would be like those. Port the game to a current platform, touch up the visuals (if applicable), add content/features. Imagine Jumping Flash on PS3, rendered in 1080p, with analog control, and also including Geograph Seal, the developer's earlier game for the X68000 that Jumping Flash was kind of a successor to. Or Mansion of Hidden Souls on Wii with cleaned-up video and pointer control.

[Vectorman0]

I think you hit the central reasons why this is very unlikely to ever happen. I love games and video game history, but I have no interest in buying discs full of concept art and buggy, unfinished code.

The whole concept behind Criterion Collection originally was to release lesser known films on laserdisc in the highest possible quality audio and video quality available at the time. Without Criterion Collection spending the money to do the transfers and market and release the films, they wouldn't be available to most film buffs other than going to screenings at archives or spending tons of money to buy an 8mm, 16mm or even a 35mm projector and a print. Games don't have the same limitations.

With very few exceptions for ridiculously rare games, anyone can buy any old game they want on Ebay or at a swap meet as well as used consoles, often for far below what the game or console originally sold for, in the best possible version available, the original version. Buying games on an emulator is not the best possible version available and as such, it makes no financial or practical sense to build a collectors oriented business around it. If you're gonna emulate the console or games, there is no reason not to just buy the game as a download on the various console services or even some of the Gametap type services.

Agreed with both of you.


I wonder if 100 years from now, things will be different.

[Richter Belmount]

So this Criterion Collection will have Pochantas for the snes and Tinhead , they fall under the category of unfinished unreleased titles THAT MUST BE PLAYED. Maybe we will fit the A team for atari and married with children nes. lmfao