View Full Version : Atari 2600 Air Raid box found
swlovinist
04-02-2010, 07:33 PM
There will be people that will continue to question this one, but I think that it is very safe to consider this one real at this point. For more info one just has to to atariage forums and read the 800 posts this auction has generated.
Sniderman
04-02-2010, 10:16 PM
It really comes down to AA's past history with some incredible April Fool's Day jokes. Each year, some new proto or rarity is "discovered" and there's a lot of hoopla until the joke is revealed. The AA April Fool's Day pranks are legendary.
So this one-of-a-kind-oh-my-God-rare-as-hell-never-before-seen-or-pictured game box is "discovered" on 4/1 and is discussed at length on AA. Al got involved to "validate its authenticity." Of COURSE no one is gonna take it seriously because there has been one too many of these kinds of situations in the past. If this had surfaced in, say, September....then there wouldn't be nearly the amount of scepticism as seen now.
Personally, I waited all damn day yesterday for the other shoe to drop, but I'm beginning to think that this is either real (and the timing is off) or that someone is going to INCREDIBLE lengths for a joke (and one whose time has passed). Looks like it's real.
vintagegamecrazy
04-02-2010, 10:53 PM
I'm calling real too and if it is then what rare games for the 2600 still need boxes to be found for them?
PingvinBlueJeans
04-03-2010, 12:35 AM
what rare games for the 2600 still need boxes to be found for them?
Ultravision Karate (http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-2600-vcs-karate_11836.html)
Hawksmoor
04-03-2010, 05:13 PM
In the official thread on AA regarding the auction, I believe someone mentioned that the creator of the game confirmed the game was actually called Air Raid. It's somewhere in the 20-30 pages of the thread.
If the creator of the game can be contacted to verify the name of the game, couldn't that individual also verify the legitimacy of the box?
Mitch
04-03-2010, 05:54 PM
So this one-of-a-kind-oh-my-God-rare-as-hell-never-before-seen-or-pictured game box is "discovered" on 4/1 and is discussed at length on AA.
Actually it was posted a couple days before the first, though I see your point.
Mitch
AcePuppy
04-03-2010, 06:04 PM
If the creator of the game can be contacted to verify the name of the game, couldn't that individual also verify the legitimacy of the box?
I believe the person who verified the game (creator, designer, etc. can't remember where in the thread the title was said), stated it was verified a couple years ago. I'm sure they could with the box as well if someone can find him. However, there is no doubt in my mind this is real, being a former webdesigner I don't see anything fake in those pictures. :/
DreamTR
04-03-2010, 06:26 PM
I don't know why the creator is not interviewed more in this. People don't have a CLUE about MEN-A-VISION.
ProgrammingAce
04-03-2010, 11:55 PM
Yeah, i keep hearing that there was an interview with someone involved with men-a-vision. If we know who made the game, why don't we ask him?
Callin
04-04-2010, 12:06 AM
If it was the same guy who claimed to have found an Air Raid box years ago, then I think it's because he stopped responding to emails.
Queen Of The Felines
04-04-2010, 12:12 AM
I'm calling real too and if it is then what rare games for the 2600 still need boxes to be found for them?
Was a box for Eli's Ladder found?
TheDomesticInstitution
04-04-2010, 12:17 AM
Yeah, i keep hearing that there was an interview with someone involved with men-a-vision. If we know who made the game, why don't we ask him?
This would answer a lot of questions. I often wonder why more classic game developers aren't members of classic game message boards.
PingvinBlueJeans
04-04-2010, 01:32 AM
Was a box for Eli's Ladder found?
It wasn't sold with one. CPUWIZ at AtariAge did make a mock-up box for it at one point (as he did with the MagiCard).
I often wonder why more classic game developers aren't members of classic game message boards.
Because too many posters on classic game message boards are lunatics.
DreamTR
04-04-2010, 01:42 AM
It wasn't sold with one. CPUWIZ at AtariAge did make a mock-up box for it at one point (as he did with the MagiCard).
Because too many posters on classic game message boards are lunatics.
Exactly. And when people try to bring out something new to the community, they get chastised for it. See Messiah and Rob Fulop.
Emperor Megas
04-04-2010, 02:00 AM
I often wonder why more classic game developers aren't members of classic game message boards. Gaming forums are full of freaks, for one thing. And just because they developed video games almost 2 generations ago doesn't mean they have a social interest in it. I know that I wouldn't be jumping at the chance to argue with a bunch of nerds and fanboys about what I did for a living 30+ years ago.
If the creator of the game can be contacted to verify the name of the game, couldn't that individual also verify the legitimacy of the box?
I believe the person who verified the game (creator, designer, etc. can't remember where in the thread the title was said), stated it was verified a couple years ago. I'm sure they could with the box as well if someone can find him. However, there is no doubt in my mind this is real, being a former webdesigner I don't see anything fake in those pictures. :/
I don't know why the creator is not interviewed more in this. People don't have a CLUE about MEN-A-VISION.
The creator of the game is unknown, and has never been found. It has been called "Air Raid" since 1991, and is basically a hack of Space Jockey. when someone in The 2600 Connection newsletter stated he seen it in box. Another person one Usenet in 1995 also confirmed this. However, neither offered pictures. There are also some discrepancies in their descriptions and this box. For one, it doesn't open like a book, as the person in 1991 claimed.
Greg2600
04-04-2010, 12:22 PM
I wonder, is it proper to consider the game an actual Atari 2600 game, or simply a hack/homebrew 10 years before those became commonplace?
PingvinBlueJeans
04-04-2010, 02:23 PM
I wonder, is it proper to consider the game an actual Atari 2600 game, or simply a hack/homebrew 10 years before those became commonplace?
That's a good point, but a lot of games were hacks (see games by Puzzy/Bit Corp, ZiMag, Panda, Froggo, etc).
There were a few other titles released back then (Birthday Mania, Gamma-Attack, Red Sea Crossing) which were basically homebrews. While those at least were original games, Air Raid is a hack. But regardless, Air Raid was sold with a box, in actual stores, and was distributed by a 'corporation' (in theory, at least). Those earlier titles I mentioned were programmed by individuals working out of their homes and sold via mail order. Even still, they're just as legitimate anything else. I suppose it's all subjective in the end and people can draw lines wherever they like.
I wonder why people even thought it's not an original box. Hello, did you guys feel the same about Stadium Events, maybe THAT was a selfmade box.
I wonder, is it proper to consider the game an actual Atari 2600 game, or simply a hack/homebrew 10 years before those became commonplace?
That was discussed on Atari Age in this (http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/134170-what-are-the-odds-that-air-raid-is-hoax/page__p__1617096__hl__hoax__fromsearch__1#entry161 7096) thread a couple of years ago. The guy who started the topic threw out the possibility the whole thing may have been a hoax, with the homebrew programmer scattering a bunch around the nation to thrift shops in the 90's. I think this is more of a possibility than it being a mail-order homebrew, because no one has yet seen an ad for it.
TheDomesticInstitution
04-04-2010, 04:48 PM
I wonder why people even thought it's not an original box. Hello, did you guys feel the same about Stadium Events, maybe THAT was a selfmade box.
I think because there is no known box to compare it to. There are known sealed Stadium Events, so comparisons can be made to an actual product to verify authenticity if need be. That and the dubious origins of "Air Raid." No one seems to agree if it was a retail release, a homebrew, the actual name of the game, or anything about the company. I knew little about the game before the box surfaced, and after reading through this thread I'm more confused than ever.
skaar
04-04-2010, 04:53 PM
I think this game needs more butter monster.
you might want to flood that page with Google ads. :p
It's got 345 views in it's first three days, not bad. :)
http://www.men-a-vision.com/
Gameguy
04-04-2010, 09:50 PM
I wonder why people even thought it's not an original box. Hello, did you guys feel the same about Stadium Events, maybe THAT was a selfmade box.
The Air Raid box was announced just before April Fools day by a new member with few posts, on a site that regularly does over-the-top April Fools day pranks that are similar in nature. Why would you be surprised about some people having doubts?
The owner of the box should have waited at least a week past April Fools day to post anything about it.
Greg2600
04-04-2010, 10:29 PM
That was discussed on Atari Age in this (http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/134170-what-are-the-odds-that-air-raid-is-hoax/page__p__1617096__hl__hoax__fromsearch__1#entry161 7096) thread a couple of years ago. The guy who started the topic threw out the possibility the whole thing may have been a hoax, with the homebrew programmer scattering a bunch around the nation to thrift shops in the 90's. I think this is more of a possibility than it being a mail-order homebrew, because no one has yet seen an ad for it.
Interesting, I'm just surprised that the game was "given" a title in 1991. Even though the box lists a copyright of 1982. What's more, there was that letter to the editor in 1992 Atari 2600 connection describing the box and game. And supposedly that reader died 2 years ago. Even though this box doesn't appear to be a "gatefold" as the reader described, Albert of AA saw it himself and his word is gold for me. I won't be bidding though. Then again, I think the ebay account is Albert's? If the game was indeed produced during the system's original life cycle, especially as early as '82, it has the same validity as unauthorized games like Halloween or Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Not sure if its worth tens of thousands though.
megasdkirby
04-05-2010, 07:16 AM
I always thought tthe game was made in 1984...
Right now, the auction is at $12.5K. All because of a box. True, IF it's real, it's something never seen before, so in a way it's "one of a kind".
Still, it's just a box. I say this game will go over $20K...for a box. It's Stadium Events all over again!
chrisbid
04-05-2010, 08:24 AM
I always thought tthe game was made in 1984...
Right now, the auction is at $12.5K. All because of a box. True, IF it's real, it's something never seen before, so in a way it's "one of a kind".
Still, it's just a box. I say this game will go over $20K...for a box. It's Stadium Events all over again!
at least air raid is a unique game. sure it is a poor quality hack of another not-so-great game, but at least it is unique. stadium events is a label variation
megamaniaman
04-05-2010, 12:38 PM
I always thought tthe game was made in 1984...
Right now, the auction is at $12.5K. All because of a box. True, IF it's real, it's something never seen before, so in a way it's "one of a kind".
Still, it's just a box. I say this game will go over $20K...for a box. It's Stadium Events all over again!
True enough, but at least we will not have 10 PAL Air Raids trying to be sold for insane amounts of money. A loose Air Raid or two may surface, but I doubt anything more than that will surface on Ebay.
TonyTheTiger
04-05-2010, 01:11 PM
I always found it interesting that timing matters so much with these things. Random homebrew made in 1982? Collector's dream. Random homebrew made in 1998? A fun diversion. This isn't a knock. It's just goes to show the mythos of something being old and obscure can really make a world of difference. There's a little Indiana Jones in all of us.
ProgrammingAce
04-05-2010, 02:40 PM
One of the black bio force ape competition homebrew carts i released at MGC last week for $35 has already been resold at auction for over $80. It's all marketing...
UnpluggedClone
04-05-2010, 03:01 PM
Google 4 Gaga
Icarus Moonsight
04-05-2010, 03:19 PM
Me: Yes, Mr. Loan-Officer! I'd like to take out a loan for twenty-five thousand dollars.
Loan Officer: To what purpose?
Me: I'm going to buy a box.
Loan Officer: A box? You mean a big-box store?
Me: No, just a box. For an old Atari game.
Loan Officer: Alright buddy, where's Aston Kutcher hiding, where are the cameras!?
otoko
04-05-2010, 03:39 PM
Me: Yes, Mr. Loan-Officer! I'd like to take out a loan for twenty-five thousand dollars.
Loan Officer: To what purpose?
Me: I'm going to buy a box.
Loan Officer: A box? You mean a big-box store?
Me: No, just a box. For an old Atari game.
Loan Officer: Alright buddy, where's Aston Kutcher hiding, where are the cameras!?
In my bum, he's right next to the monkey.
DreamTR
04-09-2010, 01:40 AM
Me: Yes, Mr. Loan-Officer! I'd like to take out a loan for twenty-five thousand dollars.
Loan Officer: To what purpose?
Me: I'm going to buy a box.
Loan Officer: A box? You mean a big-box store?
Me: No, just a box. For an old Atari game.
Loan Officer: Alright buddy, where's Aston Kutcher hiding, where are the cameras!?
Circa 2005
Random Dude: Yes Mr Loan Officer! I would like to buy this house!
Loan Officer: What a great investment, houses are excellent!
Random Dude: How about this car also? I want to buy the newest and latest model!
Loan Officer: Sure we can do that!
Circa 2010
Random Dude: I paid $300K for my house and now it is only worth $180K? WTF?
Random Dude: I paid $35K for my car and with monthly payments it was $60K and now it needs work? WTF?
Just because someone "invests" in a cardboard box or buys one does not mean it's silly. I put money down on video games and boxes which people thought were ridiculous for me to buy at the time and I've sold some games for incredulous amounts of money. In turn my grandfather wanted me to invest in a mortgage company but he lost his life savings from it after 10 years of getting dividend checks...
I stick with what I know and that's always worked for me.
I don't think "that money can be better spent" when I see something like this. THe box has NEVER come up. If I had $25K lying around I would try and outbid Wonder007 just because I doubt another one of these is going to pop up, but unfortunately I have limitations and don't want to sell my pinball machines to try and compete with the big boys on this one...
Icarus Moonsight
04-09-2010, 01:55 AM
I think you misunderstood what I was driving at there. Right aspect, wrong party.
megasdkirby
04-10-2010, 10:17 PM
HOLY SHIT!!
OVER 30K!
It's incredible...
Did this "Wonder 007" guy win it?
neotokeo2001
04-10-2010, 10:19 PM
HOLY SHIT!!
OVER 30K!
It's incredible...
Did this "Wonder 007" guy win it?
Yes. It was Wonder.
megasdkirby
04-10-2010, 10:21 PM
All I can say is...
"What the good grief is wrong with people!?"
O_O
Policenaut
04-10-2010, 10:25 PM
unbe-fucking-lievable!!
AcePuppy
04-10-2010, 10:25 PM
Congrats Jose!
megasdkirby
04-10-2010, 10:27 PM
Remind me never to collect for the 2600 or NES.
In the long run, I think I will die from a coronary from all the money wasted. :D
betamax001
04-10-2010, 10:44 PM
Huh I thought it would be higher actually...though 30,000 isnt anything to laugh at!
Damaramu
04-10-2010, 10:50 PM
Hey now, let's not poo-poo on other peoples' hobbies. But to be honest, I could buy 2 more of my current car with that amount!
:eek:
Snapple
04-10-2010, 11:07 PM
Since it is now April 10th (almost 11th), and the shoe never dropped, I think it's safe to say this isn't an April Fool's joke. And since it was sold, it's either real or a very horrible scam.
I hope Wonder007 is happy with his purchase. You could feed a third world country for a year with that box.
Leo_A
04-10-2010, 11:37 PM
I always found it interesting that timing matters so much with these things. Random homebrew made in 1982? Collector's dream. Random homebrew made in 1998? A fun diversion. This isn't a knock. It's just goes to show the mythos of something being old and obscure can really make a world of difference. There's a little Indiana Jones in all of us.
The difference is this one was sold in stores when the system was still commercially active. So anyone going after the futile goal of a complete 2600 set needs this. Plus it's very unique and recognizable, and there's value in that.
It's not even an original game, I believe it's been proven to be just a hack of Space Jockey.
sniperCCJVQ
04-11-2010, 12:05 AM
Will he get pay to the very last cents ?
Jisho23
04-11-2010, 12:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zDoKY9QJJU&feature=player_embedded
Leo_A
04-11-2010, 12:43 AM
It went from $ 17,000 to $31,000 with the final bid? Either the buyer is an idiot and just paid over $10,000 more then he probably needed to, or they have zero intentions of paying.
Edit - Thinking about it a bit more and checking AtariAge, it appears the buyer is legit and I retract the idiot statement. I guess if I really wanted it and had the funds, I also wouldn't of been taking any chances with my final bid.
Hope the new owner is very happy with his purchase. Glad this wasn't the April Fools joke we all thought it was.
megasdkirby
04-11-2010, 12:49 AM
It went from $ 17,000 to $31,000 with the final bid? Either the buyer is an idiot and just paid over $10,000 more then he probably needed to, or they have zero intentions of paying.
I just think Wonder007 was desperate to win, no matter what the cost. And he/she did.
Still, priorities are out of wack in this situation. Just a thought, but he/she should really learn the value of money. So should the other person who tried to outbid Wonder007.
Although by around $10K less, it's very similar to the "Stadium Events" fiasco.
Icarus Moonsight
04-11-2010, 01:41 AM
Money doesn't actually have any intrinsic value. It's just paper. I've heard the story about a German retiree that learned the true value of money... He cashed in his retirement/pension plan, during one of their depressions, and then he walked across the street and bought a cup of coffee with it all. People have burned money because the heat generated by stacks of it was more and lasting heat than the wood they could buy with it would provide. Back in 2008 there were reporters that went to the grocery store in Zimbabwe and spent over a trillion dollars for a single cart of food. 30k for a unique and highly desired box seems completely rational by comparison.
That box sold for a little under 40% of what my home cost, even still - Cost =/= value.
scooterb23
04-11-2010, 01:44 AM
I just think it's funny that someone wasted that much money on something that sucks so badly as Air Raid does.
Cornelius
04-11-2010, 01:58 AM
It went from $ 17,000 to $31,000 with the final bid? Either the buyer is an idiot and just paid over $10,000 more then he probably needed to, or they have zero intentions of paying.
Edit - Thinking about it a bit more and checking AtariAge, it appears the buyer is legit and I retract the idiot statement. I guess if I really wanted it and had the funds, I also wouldn't of been taking any chances with my final bid.
Hope the new owner is very happy with his purchase. Glad this wasn't the April Fools joke we all thought it was.
I don't think you know how bidding on ebay works. Might want to read up on it.
Icarus Moonsight
04-11-2010, 02:02 AM
I know what you mean, but I also understand that is just a subjective application of personal value preference. More than likely, this person will enjoy being the only known person to have an Air Raid box until the money they could receive to pass that title on will overcome the desire to retain it. They are just tying up those resources in owning the box. Unless a bunch more pop up sometime, owning it won't really cost them a thing in the end. Chances are, they will get to have their cake and also eat it later when they sell it for more than the amount they bought it for.
The entry fee for that single-member-club is ridiculously high, I agree. But, do not discount or ignore the exit benefit either!
Greg2600
04-11-2010, 02:16 AM
What's amazing is the winner almost won the auction for 17K but another bidder tried a last second bid, which hiked it another 14K. OUCH!!!!!
31K, yeah, that's what my car cost after all the finance fees and interest. Totally insane. We were kind of thinking at NAVA last week that someone would bid $40K, didn't get that high though.
Icarus Moonsight
04-11-2010, 02:24 AM
I'm guessing since 25k was tossed around as the supposition high (from what I gathered anyway) they padded the bid over that to ensure a win. Might have bit them in the ass a little, but they could still be satisfied with the outcome. They won it after all.
I just think it's funny that someone wasted that much money on something that sucks so badly as Air Raid does.
It's always the bad games, I mean look at Stadium Events...nuff said
I just think Wonder007 was desperate to win, no matter what the cost. And he/she did.
Still, priorities are out of wack in this situation. Just a thought, but he/she should really learn the value of money. So should the other person who tried to outbid Wonder007.
Although by around $10K less, it's very similar to the "Stadium Events" fiasco.
For me and you, I agree that over 30k is too much. But let's say we were Bill Gates and Steve Jobs? You wouldn't get in a bidding war with me? 30k would be chump change for us. :)
Anyway, fair price for a game with only ONE box in existance.
Could'nt understand people thinking it's not an original box.....
Lucky for Tanman keeping his VCS boxes, hey...Americans...always chucking out game boxes, that'll teach you.
.
k8track
04-11-2010, 08:33 AM
Americans...always chucking out game boxes, that'll teach you.
Then consider me an enlightened American. I've saved every box, instruction manual, and scrap of paper since starting my collection as a kid in 1982.
megasdkirby
04-11-2010, 08:35 AM
Chances are, they will get to have their cake and also eat it later when they sell it for more than the amount they bought it for.
Which is sure to happen in the not-so-distant future. Specially if they realize "WTF?! I wastes so much on THAT!?" Could happen, but even if it doesn't, the game/box will sell again later on. That is certain.
For me and you, I agree that over 30k is too much. But let's say we were Bill Gates and Steve Jobs? You wouldn't get in a bidding war with me? 30k would be chump change for us. :)
So true! Makes me wish I was a millionaire! :D
Anyway, fair price for a game with only ONE box in existance.
Could'nt understand people thinking it's not an original box.....
Lucky for Tanman keeping his VCS boxes, hey...Americans...always chucking out game boxes, that'll teach you.
.
You should have bid on it, Tom. It IS a fair price after all. LOL
I'll still remain skeptical about the box, until another resurfaces (and hell, who knows...since this one went so high, I would not be surprised that another one "pops up" out of nowhere, like what happened with Stadium Events.)
Say hi to Rose and cat! :)
PingvinBlueJeans
04-11-2010, 12:11 PM
Which is sure to happen in the not-so-distant future. Specially if they realize "WTF?! I wastes so much on THAT!?" Could happen, but even if it doesn't, the game/box will sell again later on. That is certain.
More wild assumptions. The winning bidder has one of the largest Atari collections on the planet and has pretty deep pockets as well (obviously). I would not be surprised if a copy of Air Raid sells in the near future, but it won't be this one. He won't be letting this one go anytime soon.
And for the record, the second highest bidder was another AtariAge member. It was a legit bidder, not some kid clowning around. Both bidders sniped really high attempting to win the auction and one came out on top. That's what happens with a one-of-a-kind item.
I'll still remain skeptical about the box, until another resurfaces...
:roll:
If I were a millionaire, I'd totally spend my money on video games. Stadium Events and Air Raid would be mine. Fantastic purchase -- Keep up the great work, elites.
Leo_A
04-11-2010, 07:11 PM
I don't think you know how bidding on ebay works. Might want to read up on it.
Don't particularly care
skaar
04-11-2010, 07:21 PM
Don't particularly care
http://blog.littleoldone.com/images/meh_cat.jpg
ProgrammingAce
04-11-2010, 07:26 PM
i'm going to be amused when a different looking box that seems just as legit shows up 2 months from now...
Greg2600
04-11-2010, 08:12 PM
Albert (AA) saw the box first hand. I'd take his word over most anyone on Atari matters.
16-bit
04-11-2010, 09:00 PM
I hope the high final price of the listing and surrounding publicity will bring out the creator of the game who could shed some light on how the game came to be and production #s
Carlson
TheDomesticInstitution
04-11-2010, 09:06 PM
i'm going to be amused when a different looking box that seems just as legit shows up 2 months from now...
I may be wrong, but I still don't buy it either. No one can really agree on specifics of the game's origin or name. No box has ever been photographed either, and the conditions are right for a really good forgery.
ProgrammingAce
04-11-2010, 09:48 PM
Albert (AA) saw the box first hand. I'd take his word over most anyone on Atari matters.
But you don't trust TheRedEye and DreamTR when it comes to prototypes. I see. I doubt any person on earth has bought more NES prototypes the those two.
As for this being a fake, I have no clue. But i'll tell you what, i could make a pretty convincing fake for $10,000 and still make a $20,000 profit. If another box shows up and it's different from this one, how would you know which one is real?
PingvinBlueJeans
04-11-2010, 10:25 PM
As for this being a fake, I have no clue. But i'll tell you what, i could make a pretty convincing fake for $10,000 and still make a $20,000 profit. If another box shows up and it's different from this one, how would you know which one is real?
Because we'll know that it's you or some other stupid ass fucking around. Speaking of which, let's see this $10,000 fake that you "could make".
You're right though...we really should wait another 25 years for another box to show up before we decide if it's real.
TonyTheTiger
04-11-2010, 11:22 PM
If another box shows up and it's different from this one, how would you know which one is real?
Because we'll know that it's you or some other stupid ass fucking around.
It's funny because this is "true." I put true in quotes because the community has already spoken that this is the truth that is going to be accepted.
Let me say that I can't say one way or the other whether or not the box is legit. I'm pretty much just going to accept what people who've seen the thing first hand say. But from a practical standpoint, since the community has collectively accepted this box as legitimate, even if it by some chance is fake that doesn't matter now. It's real now because everybody values it as such. Outside of the game's creator showing up and saying "WTF is that?" if another box with a different design shows up it will be declared a forgery, real or otherwise, because the community has already spoken as to what the legit box looks like.
Granted, it's probably legit but people counterfeit U.S. currency so...I don't know. But what I do know is that that item, real or fake, is worth over $30,000. That's a fact because that's the value people have given it.
Greg2600
04-12-2010, 12:11 AM
But you don't trust TheRedEye and DreamTR when it comes to prototypes. I see. I doubt any person on earth has bought more NES prototypes the those two.When did I say I don't trust them? Huh?
PingvinBlueJeans
04-12-2010, 12:13 AM
It's funny because this is "true." I put true in quotes because the community has already spoken that this is the truth that is going to be accepted.
Let me say that I can't say one way or the other whether or not the box is legit. I'm pretty much just going to accept what people who've seen the thing first hand say. But from a practical standpoint, since the community has collectively accepted this box as legitimate, even if it by some chance is fake that doesn't matter now. It's real now because everybody values it as such. Outside of the game's creator showing up and saying "WTF is that?" if another box with a different design shows up it will be declared a forgery, real or otherwise, because the community has already spoken as to what the legit box looks like.
Granted, it's probably legit but people counterfeit U.S. currency so...I don't know. But what I do know is that that item, real or fake, is worth over $30,000. That's a fact because that's the value people have given it.
If a person wants to spend enough money/time/effort, they can forge just about anything. But that's talking strictly possibility...you have to consider probability and reality, which are things that seem to escape some people.
Yes, a person can spend $10K making a fake item. Are we to believe that some clown would drop this kind of cash on some grand scheme (not knowing whether it would even work)? There are plenty of other things that would be much easier for a talented faker to pull over than this.
The irony is that throughout this whole ordeal, most of the biggest skeptics are not people who are qualified to make these decisions in the first place (a fact some of them even seem to admit).
Every time an item like this pops up, there are some that scream "fake!". While there's nothing wrong with honest, healthy skepticism, there comes a certain point where you have to call it a day. When you call fake all the time, after a while you get to be like the boy who cried wolf and nobody takes you seriously anymore. That's my main beef...most of the people who still are "not convinced" simply never will be. There is really nothing that would satisfy them, they'll always come up with some new excuse. For these people, doubt is an end in itself, not a means to some end (i.e. truth).
TonyTheTiger
04-12-2010, 12:32 AM
If a person wants to spend enough money/time/effort, they can forge just about anything. But that's talking strictly possibility...you have to consider probability and reality, which are things that seem to escape some people.
Yes, a person can spend $10K making a fake item. Are we to believe that some clown would drop this kind of cash on some grand scheme (not knowing whether it would even work)? There are plenty of other things that would be much easier for a talented faker to pull over than this.
The irony is that throughout this whole ordeal, most of the biggest skeptics are not people who are qualified to make these decisions in the first place (a fact some of them even seem to admit).
Every time an item like this pops up, there are some that scream "fake!". While there's nothing wrong with honest, healthy skepticism, there comes a certain point where you have to call it a day. When you call fake all the time, after a while you get to be like the boy who cried wolf and nobody takes you seriously anymore. That's my main beef...most of the people who still are "not convinced" simply never will be. There is really nothing that would satisfy them, they'll always come up with some new excuse. For these people, doubt is an end in itself, not a means to some end (i.e. truth).
There's no question that the odds of something being such a fantastic forgery are really, really slim but I think you missed my point. I'm not questioning the legitimacy of the item. I'm making no statements whatsoever regarding how likely it is that it's real or fake. What I'm saying is that if it is fake, it doesn't matter that it's fake. It's worth $30,000+ because that's what the community has declared it to be worth.
I realize it's a real bizarre philosophical argument I'm making but what I'm basically saying is that by virtue of it being largely accepted, it in effect becomes real and the only way that it will be rejected in the future is if somebody with a ludicrous amount of clout, like the game designer, shows up and calls it a fake.
Shit, if the skeptics were to just by chance happen upon a box that looked just like this one they'd probably snatch it up faster than you can say "eBay" because even if they don't believe this box is real, they sure as hell believe it's worth $30,000.
Gameguy
04-12-2010, 02:25 AM
Anyway, fair price for a game with only ONE box in existance.
You mean a game with one box currently known to exist. There's bound to be other boxes out there, just buried away in peoples basements or garages. Supposedly this game had no boxes out there yet now there's a box. More will probably surface thanks to the gaining publicity of this game.
i'm going to be amused when a different looking box that seems just as legit shows up 2 months from now...
Couldn't it be possible that there's more than one packaging variant, and both would be legit? There's several games out there with different packaging, like Gun.Smoke for the NES. Yes, it would be unlikely since it has a small production run, but it could still be possible.
I realize it's a real bizarre philosophical argument I'm making but what I'm basically saying is that by virtue of it being largely accepted, it in effect becomes real and the only way that it will be rejected in the future is if somebody with a ludicrous amount of clout, like the game designer, shows up and calls it a fake.
I guess it's sort of like how the Music Machine record used to go for around $100 because everyone thought it came with the game, but now it's almost worthless as people realized it was a separate item.
How low of a print run would this game have actually had? If they went through all the trouble to get this produced for public sale, would they really only make around 20 copies? It's not a competition cartridge or a contest prize, it's a game made by a company(or just a person) to be sold to the public.
I still don't understand why it's so valuable, bootleg games or multicarts aren't worth anywhere near that much and none of them had a large print run. This game is unlicensed so it's pretty close to the same thing.