What would have happened if they had ported SF Alpha 2 to Genesis?

[Urzu402]

Would it even be possible? It looks like it was hard to port it for the SNES

[emceelokey]

The SNES was basically dead by the time Alpha 2 came out on it, so the Genesis was definitely dead by that time. If anything, Sega would have put it on 32x or Sega Cd but both of those were dead and the Saturn was already out and Sega moved on.

I think Nintendo actually publiished the SNES version though.

[Damaramu]

Now, what about the N64?

Wasn't it good at pushing sprites? Killer Instinct was a 2D game (pre-rendered CGI sprites) and that turned out "ok".

Wasn't there a 2D fighting game (or beat 'em up) for it that stayed in Japan?

[vxkens]

I think Capcom published it in Japan and Nintendo published it in other territories. Kind of like Mega Man 6 at the end of the NES's life.

IIRC, the SNES version was using a special chip to help with the massive decompression of graphic data, and it was a pretty huge cart to begin with(40 Mb I think?). Genesis wouldn't have had access to that, and with its limited color palette, I doubt the game would have been a pretty sight.

[Eyedunno]

It was 32 megabits. But yeah, it would have been bad on the Genesis. Even at 32 megs with the S-DD1 compression chip, the SNES/SFC versions have terrible sound (the voices are the worst of any 16-bit Street Fighter, I'd say), some removed animations (for example, a lot of ending animations have been removed, and Sakura's middle kick is the same as her weak kick), and loadtimes (!).

I do think SFA2/SFZ2 is a phenomenal achievement considering how much of the game remains, and it's still very playable and decent, but on the Genesis, it may well have been a disaster.

[NayusDante]

Well, why not Sega CD? Isn't that kinda why they made it in the first place?

[Kiddo]

Now, what about the N64?

Wasn't it good at pushing sprites? Killer Instinct was a 2D game (pre-rendered CGI sprites) and that turned out "ok".

Wasn't there a 2D fighting game (or beat 'em up) for it that stayed in Japan?

I recall hearing of a "Rakuga Kids" which didn't get a release in the USA.
Also, the N64 had the Mortal Kombat Trilogy game.

I think that for some reason devvers were put off on the idea of making 2D N64 Fighters for some reason - in comparison, there were more (mostly shoddy and forgettable compared to Saturn or Playstation ones) 3D fighters. Possibly just people jumped on the "2D is dead" bandwagon (and Capcom didn't jump on N64 until near the tail-end of it's lifespan, and just released Playstation ports on it.)

As for the Sega CD doing Alpha 2 - I do not really think it'd have been that easy. The Sega CD's power didn't seem to do much for improving NeoGeo ports over their Genesis originals, after all. And the Sega CD by itself didn't add additional color to the system.

That being said, other give the Sega CD much of anything after "Final Fight" was ported? In a way, it's kinda sad wondering how a Street Fighter port might've worked on the CD System, only for it to not happen

[badinsults]

Yeah, without the SDD-1 chip, SFA2 probably wouldn't have happened on the SNES (it should be noted that if you play the game without the chip, say through a Game Genie, it is completely playable but the graphics are screwed up). The SDD-1 chip probably compressed the graphics by at least a factor of 2. If the Genesis had SFA2, it would probably have had to have a similar sort of graphics decompression scheme.

[Kitsune Sniper]

It was a craptacular port that shouldn't have been made to begin with. Awful sound, freezing before rounds started, smushed out graphics... I'm not sure WHAT made Capcom try to pull it off. The port felt rushed and gimped.

[CMA Death Adder]

What would have happened if they had ported SF Alpha 2 to Genesis?

People would have bought it and played it. I would have been one of them.

I thought it was neat, having the game on the SNES - but I've always preferred the Genesis. A Genesis and / or 32X version of the game would have been... more neat.

[Arkhan]

SF alpha 2 for genesis would have SUCKED. The PSX sprites were so nicely drawn and animated.... the music was great., and the controls/screen effects were awesome



the sega version wold have just been every other street fighter, with different characters, lame specials and less than awesome music!

a sega cd version might have been ok, id imagine the graphics wouldnt have been as nicely colorful as the PSX/arcade..... but it would have been more acceptable I think

[Eyedunno]

It was a craptacular port that shouldn't have been made to begin with. Awful sound, freezing before rounds started, smushed out graphics... I'm not sure WHAT made Capcom try to pull it off. The port felt rushed and gimped.
I think you're going too far. The load times are pretty annoying, but considering the hardware, it's an amazingly good, thorough port. You have to keep in mind they made it on the same size cart as was used for Super Street Fighter II, and included a pretty faithful version of the arcade's attract mode, not to mention Chun Li's alternate costume, and most of the bells and whistles found in every other version of the game.

[izarate]

I'm not sure WHAT made Capcom try to pull it off. The port felt rushed and gimped.

The SFC was well alive and kicking when SFA2 came out (1996). I guess that Capcom took the installed base into consideration. Let's not forget that the SFC got Rockman & Forte in 1998. :o

It does feel rushed though. A few more weeks to improve the dead time when the SDD1 is decompresing the audio data just before the round starts and maybe incorporating the SA1 chip would have made a hell of a port.

[swlovinist]

Some of Genesis inferior ports are still rather playable(Samurai Showdown). The Genesis could have pulled off a playable port, that would have looked and sounded inferior. The color would be the most noticable, but I bet you that the system could pull off something that could be played. Like many other comparisons to the SNES, I bet the Genesis could have a faster running version, just one that looked and sounded fugly.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I played the Saturn version years before the SNES one. To me, it's a neat cart to have, but it's pretty much unplayable by comparison. The Genny had to use hardware and tricks just to get SSF2 to run... Genny Alpha 2 would have been a bigger train wreck than the SNES version. And that's saying something! If you've played a Chinese Fami bootleg of SF2, you pretty much know what to expect.

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

I dont think it would have been that bad, if the right crew did the job. The Genesis was already doing decent ports of Neo stuff as it was when Takara was behind the work. Usually the only thing that really hampered the Takara ports was the altered gameplay due to ram limits. Samurai Showdown on Genesis already visually looked pretty nice. If they would have used more ram they could have retained the moves they cut out. Hell, ruined game play aside, even Art of Fighting and World Heroes on Genesis visually looked good. Sega just botched those two with poor programming. Super SF 2 and Saturday Night Slam Masters on Genesis looked pretty nice and played really well. Same with Power Instinct.

Granted, I dont think a Genesis port of Alpha 2 would have been mind blowing, but if they would have went with a large cart size, they could have done something decent probably. Better then the Snes port? Who knows. No one will ever know (until some morons in Hong Kong decide to port it over, first to Nes, then Game Gear, then Mega Drive, with guest stars Scorpion, Johnny Cage, half the cast of KOF 94, and Mickey Mouse from Castle of Illusion).

[c0ldb33r]

I'm curious how the game would have turned out on:

1. Sega CD + 32X = I imagine that this would have been quite playable. It wouldn't have to compress the graphics like the SNES one did. Plus, with the power of the 32X, the graphics would have been quite sharp. The music would have been just as good as the Saturn version thanks to the CD.

2. Turbo-16 with Arcade card - I have no idea how this would have turned out, but I'm amazed how well this little gem did with the SNK fighter ports. I think that it would have sucked, but I'd still be interested in seeing it.


The Genny had to use hardware and tricks just to get SSF2 to run...
Really?

[portnoyd]

Ever play TMNT Tournament Fighters on the Genesis and then compare it to the SNES version? I'd imagine SFA2 on the Genesis would have been just as bad.

[Arkhan]

2. Turbo-16 with Arcade card - I have no idea how this would have turned out, but I'm amazed how well this little gem did with the SNK fighter ports. I think that it would have sucked, but I'd still be interested in seeing it.




this or the Sega CD + 32x are the only ways I could see a port working out.

[megasdkirby]

I bet it might look good, but it will sound like complete ass.

[j_factor]

Sega CD would have been worse than Genesis, because it doesn't have enough RAM. CD 32x is not a real option.

Coprocessor chips weren't really supported on Genesis, so Capcom probably would've had to try to squeeze it on one massive cartridge. Which is probably why they didn't do it. The sound and colors would have suffered too, but other than that it would've been okay.

[Damaramu]

What about that SVP chip SEGA had for Virtua Racing? I know it was mainly for processing polygons, but maybe they could've fanangled it to push sprites/sound?

[j_factor]

The SVP reduced the colors to 16. :p In theory, a similar type of processor could be used for sprites, but there's no need for it. If I'm not mistaken, the SDD1 chip only handles data decompression, it doesn't actually aid the CPU in the game. So the Genesis CPU definitely would've been up to the task. The real problem is ROM.

[Black_Tiger]

Wow, I'm surprised by the negative opinion of the Genesis around here. People seem to champion the strengths of the SNES while only focusing on the weaknesses of the Genesis. There's no point talking about how practical a Genesis port of SFA2 would've been, the reason it wasn't released was because it wasn't worthwhile at the time.

As far as how well the Genesis could handle a port, it could be pretty damn good on cart. The Sega-CD is out of the question because of the limited ram. The amount of animation in a cart port would only be limited to the amount of storage given, whether it be straight memory, compression or whatever. If many factors at the time were different and an otherwise practical port was put out, I think that it would've been fine to have cut a bunch of characters and maybe a few more stages in order to keep the animation decent. Didn't Alpha 1 have less stages than characters?

Basically the Genesis can do almost any 2D fighter, only extreme things like full screen zooming or screen filling sprites would need to be cut. A benefit that a Genesis port would have over the SNES port is it could be pixel for pixel in the 320 wide mode. The perspective would still be off compared to the arcade, but it was the same for lots of 16-bit home ports.

On-screen color wouldn't be an issue the same way it was in the SFII ports. The Alpha/Zero sprites aren't shaded like the SFII series sprites. They're two-toned with colored lining. The drabber backgrounds are also Genesis-friendly and wouldn't look as out of place with repeated color.


I think that this example is on the conservative side of what could be done-

http://members.shaw.ca/black_mustard/sfa2_genesis2.png


The only 16-bit console port that wouldn't have been much of a stretch had Capcom allowed it to happen would've been for PC Engine Arcade Card CD.

[Eyedunno]

It does feel rushed though. A few more weeks to improve the dead time when the SDD1 is decompresing the audio data just before the round starts and maybe incorporating the SA1 chip would have made a hell of a port.
I would say yeah, it didn't have to have that bad of wait times given more optimization, and I would further suggest that perhaps if they had 48 megabits, they could have gotten it down to something unnoticeable or almost so, SA-1 or no.

Which raises the interesting question: could a skilled enough hacker doing basically what neviksti did for Star Ocean along with some optimizations bring to life a hack that at least runs smoothly on a Powerpak? The world will probably never know...

[izarate]

In fact I think that, judging by the beta screenshots, SFA2 wasn't supposed to be what it turned out to:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9099/sfcsfz2beta01.jpghttp://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2253/sfcsfz2beta02.jpghttp://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8238/sfcsfz2beta03.jpg

Notice how big the sprites are in the beta. I think that it was until later in the development cycle that Capcom noticed that they wouldn't get by with 32Mb (or 48Mb for that matter) and went with the S-DD1.


As for the Genesis port, well, I don't know. I'm not really familiarized with Sega's 16bit hardware so I don't know if it could pull it of. ROM size would be the main issue although a Sega CD version sounds interesting. It would have been faster, that's for sure. Still, I don't think that Capcom would have made a port even if they could. The Megadrive was actually dead when SFA2 was released but the SFC still had games coming out (the last SFC game was released in 2000).

[Rogue]

Well, I think that at the time Sega was advertising the Saturn as an "Arcade at Home".
Also, the Saturn got a perfect port. So why bother with the Mega Drive if even Sega didn't...

[emceelokey]

I wonder why they decided to port Alpha 2 in the first place. Alpha 1 didn't come out on SNES or Genesis and that game came out at least a year before Alpha 2, which would have meant that the installed base for the 32 bit systems would have been much less and a cart port of Alpha 1 would have been more successful at that time. I'd imagine that Alpha 1 could have been a really good port to the SNES considering how good Alpha 2 turned out.

[tomaitheous]

As for the Genesis port, well, I don't know. I'm not really familiarized with Sega's 16bit hardware so I don't know if it could pull it of. ROM size would be the main issue although a Sega CD version sounds interesting. It would have been faster, that's for sure. Still, I don't think that Capcom would have made a port even if they could. The Megadrive was actually dead when SFA2 was released but the SFC still had games coming out (the last SFC game was released in 2000).

As J-factor already pointed out, the SegaCD isn't going to have enough ram to hold both characters animations... without cutting quite a bit out. Same goes for a SegaCD+32x version. A 32x cart would be fine though.

[j_factor]

I wonder why they decided to port Alpha 2 in the first place. Alpha 1 didn't come out on SNES or Genesis and that game came out at least a year before Alpha 2, which would have meant that the installed base for the 32 bit systems would have been much less and a cart port of Alpha 1 would have been more successful at that time. I'd imagine that Alpha 1 could have been a really good port to the SNES considering how good Alpha 2 turned out.

I've always wondered about that too. Especially since Alpha 1 was smaller, and thus would've been easier to port. I think there was a 32x version in development, but that doesn't count.

Apparently Alpha 1 was ported to the CPS Changer, a home version of their CPS1 hardware (Alpha being a CPS2 game). That makes the lack of a Genesis or SNES port all the more puzzling.


Still, I don't think that Capcom would have made a port even if they could. The Megadrive was actually dead when SFA2 was released but the SFC still had games coming out (the last SFC game was released in 2000).

It was still alive in the west. It's not exactly outlandish to suggest a port for markets outside Japan. I mean, considering North America and Europe got their own special 16-bit "port" of Virtua Fighter 2 in 1996, it's not such a stretch to suggest a Genesis version of Street Fighter Alpha 2 around the same time. (The last Genesis game was released in 1998 :p)

[izarate]

It was still alive in the west. It's not exactly outlandish to suggest a port for markets outside Japan. I mean, considering North America and Europe got their own special 16-bit "port" of Virtua Fighter 2 in 1996, it's not such a stretch to suggest a Genesis version of Street Fighter Alpha 2 around the same time. (The last Genesis game was released in 1998 :p)


Maybe sales figures went into consideration? How well did the SF franchise sell on the Genesis? :confused: Anyway, Virtua Fighter 2 is a special case since it's a first party title and it's in the best interest of Sega to take advantage of the Genesis installed base, just like Nintendo when they decided to buy the distribution rights to release SFA2 in America and Europe.

[j_factor]

Maybe sales figures went into consideration? How well did the SF franchise sell on the Genesis? :confused:

Not as good as SNES, but pretty damn good. It looks like Street Fighter II Turbo on SNES sold 4.1 million worldwide, 2.1 million of which were in Japan. Special Champion Edition sold 1.65 million worldwide, with I assume a negligible amount in Japan. So for North America and Europe it's approximately 2 million SNES versus 1.5 million Genesis/MD. Of course, these figures are way higher than Alpha 2 SNES or the hypothetical Alpha 2 Genesis. But a fighting game port doesn't have to sell that many units to be worthwhile.

This comparison is kind of irrelevant, though, when you consider Street Fighter releases for 3DO, CD32, SMS, FM Towns, ZX Spectrum, etc. I guess you could say that the lack of even a Genesis port of Alpha or Alpha 2 is representative of a sharp change in Capcom's policy on porting.

[kedawa]

I think the simplified shading on the characters in the Alpha games would actually translate pretty well to the Genesis. The backgrounds would have to lose a lot of subtle detail due to the limited palette, of course, but that would have the benefit of making the game smaller in size.
Voices could be cut completely, for all I care.
As far as the gameplay and animation go, SFA2 wasn't doing a whole lot more than SSF2, and that port turned out mostly fine. SFA2 actually has about the same amount of animation per character as SF2 because it lacks close and far attacks but adds in some other details, like taunts and rolls. The overall animation quality is the same.
The super move and CC effects are nothing the Genesis can't handle, that's for sure.

The SNES port was actually pretty bad compared to SSF2, probably because it wasn't nearly as high a priority for Capcom as the SF2 ports were. By then, all of Capcom's best people would have been making Saturn and PS1 games. There was also some form of encryption that went along with the compression technology that was used, and it really bogged down performance. SFA2 is only marginally more complex than Super Street Fighter 2, and yet it runs at a fraction of the speed. It's remarkably complete port, just not a very good one.

[Icarus Moonsight]

The maximum rom size the Genesis could address without bankswitching is 32mb/4MB correct? So, with bankswitching (like SSF2) would that new rom maximum be 64mb/8MB? If so... Reduce the size of the sprites, chop a frame or two of animation, remove some character speech, fiddle with the palette, maximize sprite and background look to match that, perhaps apply compression (likened to SNES Alpha2) and it just might have been possible. How much would such a cart, produced then, need to cost? It's basically two max sized carts worth of ram in one with two extra/upgrade hardware features (assuming a third rom bank is not needed, or even possible)... That's where the big rub comes in and makes a theoretical possibility an unpractical reality.

[chrisbid]

while a technical achievment, sf2a on the snes isnt a very good game. nintendo was simply squeezing a few more drops on to the snes as it was fading from the us market by releasing a super famicom game from an established franchise that required little localizing.

the genesis was further down the road of obsolescence after 95 in japan and the us than the snes, so any games released for the systems wouldve been given meager budgets. sfa2 on the genesis with a meager budget woudlve been complete garbage

but had a sfa2 genesis project been given the same resources as ssfii, i suspect a nuetered but far more playable port than the snes wouldve been possible.