LMAO at how this guy gets blown off in Next Gen magazine

[Pancake Bunny]

Don't get me wrong, Next Gen was still leagues ahead of any gaming mag back then, but I wouldnt call this one of their finer moments

(The letter that starts "What's up with you guys?")

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/9362/nextgenerationissue0201.jpg

[Pancake Bunny]

Also note how he mentions the awful Toshinden on PS1, which every mag including Next Gen gave rave reviews

[Lerxstnj]

It says PS came out Sept 9th, but that was Dreamcast.

[JimmyDean]

Let me get this straight... They compared a shmup to Defender? Similar concept, but completely different gameplay elements.

[ShinobiMan]

You know, it wasn't just Next Gen that acted like jerks to their readers. I remember reading mail like this in EGM and Game Pro with similar responses. They are journalists with egos, and they are in a position to belittle the naysayers. Remember, they are the experts, so anything they say must be true. 3D was all the rage in 1996, so I'm sure many of NG's readers laughed and scoffed at this guy's letter, just like the editor did.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think their response was fully justified. "Pretentious 3D"? Really? People who say things like that are just as annoying as people who say 2D sucks because it's old. And Guardian Heroes is like Final Fight. It's the exact same genre.

[Baloo]

Yeah, that letter really had a justified response, as it really had little point.

[Eyedunno]

Yeah, the letter wasn't well-written, and it went on and on, but I felt the same way at the time. 2D graphics were getting so great and so potentially cinematic, while 3D graphics looked so primitive, and it seemed like every game at the time had to have the same perspective. I remember watching my friends play Final Fantasy VII and Super Mario 64 (both of which I now acknowledge as absolutely outstanding games) and being bored and thinking the emperor had no clothes.

[Emperor Megas]

I remember watching my friends play Final Fantasy VII and Super Mario 64...

... and being bored and thinking the emperor had no clothes.I still feel that way, honestly. Well, maybe that's not entirely true. I don't think that they're bad games or anything, but they were just so ugly that I couldn't really get into them. I couldn't get into most 3D games of that generation though. It was like being 3D was the only/main thing people cared about for 80% of the games released then.

[Astrocade]

I still feel that way, honestly. Well, maybe that's not entirely true. I don't think that they're bad games or anything, but they were just so ugly that I couldn't really get into them. I couldn't get into most 3D games of that generation though. It was like being 3D was the only/main thing people cared about for 80% of the games released then.

I still feel that same way too. Compare the latter 2D games like Gunstar Heroes or Comic Zone or about a million other games on the SNES and then look at the early Saturn, PS and N64 games. They were blocky, clumsy and I would get headaches trying to figure out what I was supposed to be looking at.

3D got refined later on, but those first few years killed gaming in general for me.

[Kevincal]

nevermind, LOL.

[Dangerboy]

"It says PS came out Sept 9th, but that was Dreamcast

PlayStation was 9 - 9 - 95. (ENOS = Ready Ninth of September)
Dreamcast was 9 - 9 - 99.

: )

[Eyedunno]

Dont get me wrong, 2d games WERE Awesome in the early 90's, but by the time the mid 90's came around 3d was the new king, it was new and the 3d games were exciting new experiences. Now that we look back, its nice to appreciate both 2d and 3d from the 90's.
Eh? I don't want to say that there's no place for 3D gaming by any means, but to have largely replaced 2D seems a damn shame. I just can't see, say, Tekken as a replacement for Street Fighter games or Halo as a replacement for Contra. They're vastly different gameplay experiences, and 3D being (somewhat) new doesn't justify neglecting the improved 2D capabilities these consoles also brought.


Some people say the 3d doesnt hold up, but I say BS, look at games like Doom, still my favorite FPS
I was thinking of polygon-based 3D games though, not something like DOOM.

[skaar]

These are the same people who now run self important gaming blogs, I'm sure.

[Tallise]

Lawl x3 this part of any magazine is always my favorite. The man seems so passionate about his letter and the editor gave the best reply ANYONE could give! I'm sure he shares his opinions with everyone he can, out right insulting them if they say anything different I'm sure.
Also that chick from the first letter shouldn't be so offended over ads. If you don't like it, don't look at it and realise what group of people most gaming ads are aimed towards. I personally have NO problem with gore and bewbies in ads :3 makes it more interesting.

[Johnny_Boy]

Back in those days, 3D was definitely ho-hum. Certainly no intricate detailing like 2D graphics. Valid exceptions were titles that tastefully combined 2D and 3D on the screen, such as: Tomba, Castlevania SotN and later, Strider 2; and smaller multiple models on screen, like: Klonoa, Crash Bandicoot series, various 2.5D shooters.

It's easy to understand the initial revulsion to 3D, when looking at first gen fighters and platformers. Blocky, abstract and awkward. Only racers seemed to translate gracefully.

[Aussie2B]

You have to think about it from the perspective of why it was printed in the first place. Sure, they'll let people air complaints about minor details and those are respectfully addresssed, which makes them look good for doing so, but if someone is attacking the magazine as a whole and the credibility of all the writers, there are only two options: 1) don't print it, or 2) brush it off to insinuate that the person is a crackpot. If they actually acknowledged that the person was saying something worthwhile, what would it accomplish besides damaging their image? Plus, you also have to consider the readers of the magazine, many of which are diehard fans of it. Just as people are with their favorite games sometimes, the readers may be insulted to see someone trashing that which they love, so it makes them feel good to see the magazine rudely brush them off like that.

So that's why it was printed and that's why it was responded to in such a way. It's really not that funny when you think about how it's all just business.

[Astrocade]

I was thinking of polygon-based 3D games though, not something like DOOM.

Yeah, I was picturing Virtua Fighter and the first couple Tomb Raiders. Doom looked great, even on the SNES.

[Baloo]

Yeah, I was picturing Virtua Fighter and the first couple Tomb Raiders. Doom looked great, even on the SNES.

Virtua Fighter 2 looks pretty good for then IMO.

IMHO though, 2D still looks better than the 3D out there today in most aspects still.

[Therealqtip]

Sounds like a legit response imo

[Push Upstairs]

I like 2D games, and I'd give the same reply to a letter like that

[j_factor]

I still feel that same way too. Compare the latter 2D games like Gunstar Heroes or Comic Zone or about a million other games on the SNES and then look at the early Saturn, PS and N64 games. They were blocky, clumsy and I would get headaches trying to figure out what I was supposed to be looking at.

3D got refined later on, but those first few years killed gaming in general for me.

People keep saying this, but I've never really agreed with it. I guess I'm in the minority here, but I still greatly enjoy many 3D Playstation and Saturn games (Toshinden is not one of them, however). I mean, I think what you said is true for 3D Jaguar games and early stuff like Hard Drivin' and Hunter, but Playstation and Saturn, to me, is when 3D games became workable. I was just playing Panzer Dragoon (1) the other day, and sure, the graphics are extremely outdated today, but they're effective enough to get the atmosphere across, and the game is still loads of fun.

That said, Next Gen was the king of shunning 2D games and favoring novelty over substance and graphics over gameplay. So writing a letter like that to them is just silly. This is from their review of Astal:


This is the game that answers the question "Is it worthwhile to make traditional side-scrolling action games on the new 32-bit systems?" Astal takes a deep stab at it, but unfortunately the game answers the question with a reluctant "No."

Now, seriously, given that attitude, which permeated the entire magazine, what on Earth would possess someone to vent to them about "pretentious" 3D games and how awesome Neo Geo is?

[Famidrive-16]

I think this is the only Next Gen issue I own.

[Gameguy]

Some responses to readers in magazines can be really funny, even if they're not gaming related.


http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3108/badadvicecolumn.jpg

[Ze_ro]

You have to think about it from the perspective of why it was printed in the first place. Sure, they'll let people air complaints about minor details and those are respectfully addresssed, which makes them look good for doing so, but if someone is attacking the magazine as a whole and the credibility of all the writers, there are only two options: 1) don't print it, or 2) brush it off to insinuate that the person is a crackpot. If they actually acknowledged that the person was saying something worthwhile, what would it accomplish besides damaging their image? Plus, you also have to consider the readers of the magazine, many of which are diehard fans of it. Just as people are with their favorite games sometimes, the readers may be insulted to see someone trashing that which they love, so it makes them feel good to see the magazine rudely brush them off like that.

So that's why it was printed and that's why it was responded to in such a way. It's really not that funny when you think about how it's all just business.

Yeah, whatever.

--Zero

[ryborg]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/ask-a-bee,12241/

[Pancake Bunny]

You have to think about it from the perspective of why it was printed in the first place. Sure, they'll let people air complaints about minor details and those are respectfully addresssed, which makes them look good for doing so, but if someone is attacking the magazine as a whole and the credibility of all the writers, there are only two options: 1) don't print it, or 2) brush it off to insinuate that the person is a crackpot. If they actually acknowledged that the person was saying something worthwhile, what would it accomplish besides damaging their image? Plus, you also have to consider the readers of the magazine, many of which are diehard fans of it. Just as people are with their favorite games sometimes, the readers may be insulted to see someone trashing that which they love, so it makes them feel good to see the magazine rudely brush them off like that.

So that's why it was printed and that's why it was responded to in such a way. It's really not that funny when you think about how it's all just business.

Okay, note that we're dealing with a magazine who's only been around for like 10 issues so far and has made it abundantly clear that they are trying to establish themselves as the archetype for mature journalism and discussion of the gaming industry.

So you're saying that they printed this letter because instead of reading an argument addressing the quality (or lack thereof as the case may or may not be) of the games mentioned and about why the magazine is making fallacious comparisons in their game reviews, the readers would rather prefer to get off on a condescending non sequitur.

I guess by your logic it makes perfect sense since your post practically borders on one.

[Aussie2B]

Uh... huh? Are you honestly getting offended by my post? All I was doing was explaining what their options were in dealing with that letter. Would you really expect them to reply "Yeah, you're right. Our magazine is a joke and our writers are stupid; we'll try to do better."? Like I said, a magazine may correct an error here or there when it's pointed out, but this person was attacking the magazine as a whole.

If the magazine was really trying to be mature, then I'd agree with you that it wasn't a wise response. They should've went with option #1 and not printed it at all. One could argue that even with the rude response they still threw the guy a bone given that they still gave the person the opportunity to have his letter printed and read by thousands/millions of readers, in turn giving the readers the opportunity to consider what he's saying and maybe even agree (which would then backfire because those that agree could be insulted by the following comment). So maybe that action of printing it itself is showing some respect and maturity, depending on if you think the comment completely negates that or not.

[BetaWolf47]

If they're just going to give an arrogant response, why would they choose to even publish the letter? It's downright egotistical to show reader mail just so you can laugh at it. The response was justified, but publishing it was not.

[TonyTheTiger]

It is if they get a lot of those kinds of letters. There's some value in implying that people should stop being so anal retentive about this stuff.

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, it's egotistical, but there are a lot of sites that almost seem to take pride in their hate mail and host it for all to see, sometimes with condescending responses from the site, and fans often get a kick out of that. Although it helps if the hate mail is so absurd that it's funny, in which case you don't even really need a response. This Next Gen letter isn't particularly amusing on its own. Yeah, I'd say it's just guy with his panties in a wad.

[Push Upstairs]

I seem to recall EGM getting some letters about their endless love for Street Fighter 2, I recall those letters getting blown off too (despite the fact the letters were spot on).

[Icarus Moonsight]

If they're just going to give an arrogant response, why would they choose to even publish the letter? It's downright egotistical to show reader mail just so you can laugh at it. The response was justified, but publishing it was not.

So then no response is justified, since responding without publishing is rather pointless.

Now this is where you respond to me with, "Yeah, whatever." and we can all have a deeper understanding.

The guy was out of line, putting Toshinden and Virtua Fighter in the same line like that. As if they are equal. Whatever Mr. Pulstar Butthurt.

[WanganRunner]

He also spelled his own town wrong. It's "Laurel, MD". He wrote "Laural, MD".

[tom]

they just didn't know the answer to the question, that's all

[BetaWolf47]

It is if they get a lot of those kinds of letters.
Neo-Geo fanboys weren't exactly a big enough niche to get a flood of those letters in the first place. There's no reason for them publishing that letter other than to feed their own ego.

[Kiddo]

The guy was out of line, putting Toshinden and Virtua Fighter in the same line like that. As if they are equal. Whatever Mr. Pulstar Butthurt.

Giving the guy some credit, the first Virtua Fighter (which was probably the only one around at the time this letter was published) really looks like poo.

The 3D started looking really good in the 2nd entry - I always felt that Virtua Fighter 2 was, to me, the cutoff between "3D graphics that age well" and "3D that doesn't age well."

[TonyTheTiger]

Neo-Geo fanboys weren't exactly a big enough niche to get a flood of those letters in the first place. There's no reason for them publishing that letter other than to feed their own ego.

No, but there was a shocking abundance of "3D sucks" back then. For every person who bought Super Mario 64 there was probably somebody decrying how it ruined Mario because sprite art was dying. The kicker? They were usually the same person wearing two different hats depending on the day.

[BetaWolf47]

Giving the guy some credit, the first Virtua Fighter (which was probably the only one around at the time this letter was published) really looks like poo.

The 3D started looking really good in the 2nd entry - I always felt that Virtua Fighter 2 was, to me, the cutoff between "3D graphics that age well" and "3D that doesn't age well."

Yeah, especially the first Saturn version of Virtua Fighter. That was supposedly a really bad port, with even the 32X version being better, right?

[Kiddo]

Whether or not it's "better" is really a subjective matter, as there's some give and take between versions (Saturn version has better music, due to the CD audio, but it also has loading times, which are a real pain. The 32x version has graphics which are worse with a direct comparison, but hard to really tell if you're caught in the game).
However, the versions -are- so similar that it made the Saturn look like a poor performer compared to an older console add-on and it contributed to Sega confusing customers over what they're gonna pledge themselves to for the next gen.
Needless to say, I'd have been peeved if I got VF for the 32x and had to buy yet another console for the followup.

[Emperor Megas]

No, but there was a shocking abundance of "3D sucks" back then. For every person who bought Super Mario 64 there was probably somebody decrying how it ruined Mario because sprite art was dying. The kicker? They were usually the same person wearing two different hats depending on the day.I never met any of those people back then. I'm not saying you're wrong about them or anything, I just didn't encounter into any of that, personally. I was the only person in my circle of friends who didn't care for the majority of early 3D games. Everyone I knew who gamed was enamored by 3D graphics; you couldn't tell them ANYTHING negative about 3D games, especially if it was something on the PSX or the N64. They'd go on able how awesome and real everything looked, and I'd ask them if they were nuts. Blocky ass humans figures made of flat shaded polygons (with extremely low polygon count) didn't look real -- it looked like a mess.

[TonyTheTiger]

There was an extremely vocal minority, particularly around the time FFVII came out, that began decrying 3D as the death of "classic" gaming. It was particularly annoying since FFVII isn't that much different from FFVI as far as the total composition of the game is concerned. Outside of the beefed up visuals, they function similarly. What these people were complaining about was merely the lack of 16-bit sprites and tiles. I think given the time frame during which this letter was submitted, there was probably at least a noticeable amount of that kind of stuff coming in. I don't think it's inappropriate at all to print one of the more aggressive letters and say "Yeah, whatever" to the entire lot of them.

The issue I picked up on, even back then as a middle school student, was that these people would complain...and then keep playing the game. So even the complainers weren't entirely genuine with their disgust. It was straight up "I miss the old days." Which was funny since "the old days" were about a year or two prior.

[kedawa]

I actually really like certain types of early 3D, especially vector graphics and flat shaded polys. It's the pixelated, warping textures and horrible clipping and pop-in that I can't handle. Even back in the mid nineties, I looked at the PS1, Saturn, etc. as the 3D equivalents of the NES in that they could render the graphics, but with a lot of goofy graphical idiosyncrasies.

[Arkhan]

blowing off a letter, no matter how obnoxious it is to some, and publishing it, just makes the magazine as a whole lose its credibility and become "that magazine where they act like dicks".

It turns into the preppy clique in highschool basically.

If they didn't want to give the kid a valid response they should have just never published that letter. They're supposed to be professional. They're not the angsty teens sending out the letters..... they're the "professional" journalists charging $$ for a magazine.

Its not like those were the only like 5 letters for the month. Find different, more useful ones to pad the magazine.

[TonyTheTiger]

If you're trying to avoid people acting like dicks you're in the wrong hobby. ^^;

Not saying it's necessarily a good thing but sometimes it's refreshing to see pompous jackasses get a taste of their own medicine when somebody calls them out for acting like Comic Book Guy. The door swings both ways. I actually find the lack of a PR filter nice for a change when most of the world is too cautious of what they say and how they say it eventually settling on a series of words that say absolutely nothing.

Assuming that printing the letter was going to happen, what would have been a more professional response? "We humbly disagree, sir, because 3D has opened the doors to...blah blah blah"? The "yeah, whatever" comment would be equally applicable to that kind of answer. Sure, it's more professional. It's also useless when the point that is meant to be conveyed is "You're a blowhard and so is everybody who rants like you do."

If anything, the purpose of printing the letter and being so dismissive about it is to create some sense of self awareness among the readership that the hobby tends to breed that kind of...and I hate to use such a cliche word...fanboyism. Call it a cautionary tale if you want. "Be careful or you might end up like this guy."

[Arkhan]

The general public can act like dicks all they want. Thats entirely different.

They're not trying to play themselves off as professional journalists in a for-profit magazine.

They should have either

1) Not published it and filled the space with a more useful letter/response. I am sureeeee there was a better letter they could have took the time to address. Some useful letter, written by a thoughtful person, didn't make the cut so they could stretch their journalist-dicks to a "yeah wutevarz"

2) Responded in a way that is above the whole being a dick mannerism.

[j_factor]

Once again, though... it's Next Generation. The "cutting edge" game magazine. They were a bunch of technophile snobs, and proud of it. It's even implied by the name, Next Generation, that the magazine is focused a certain way. Writing this kind of letter to this particular magazine is like complaining about Microsoft's legacy support to Computer Power User.

[Arkhan]

so cutting edge means snooty dickbags?

cool.


I remember when cutting edge was alot more legit than this.

[TonyTheTiger]

No, it means calling out bullshit when you smell it. Like I said above, this wasn't an isolated incident. That kind of attitude was surprisingly commonplace. The editors were making a statement to all the Comic Book Guys out there, not just the one who wrote the letter. You keep saying to be more professional but there really isn't a better way to say it than "yeah, whatever." That's the most concise and direct way to tell everybody that the argument is passe and they should stop making it. Any response more "professional" would not be able to convey the same thing. How do you "professionally" tell somebody that they aren't worth listening to? And saying not to print the letter doesn't solve anything since, again, this was a pretty common attitude back then so there's no fault in addressing it.

[Icarus Moonsight]

How do you "professionally" tell somebody that they aren't worth listening to?

Either refutation or indifference, not mockery. Surely, if it's not worthy of their reading, why put it out for your public? I'd have to say that they didn't agree with the sentiments, vehemently, but laughed at the letter enough and assumed that they would get a similar response out of their readers putting it to print.

Blowback.

[TonyTheTiger]

That was indifference.

[Icarus Moonsight]

On the surface, that is what they intended. Any response at all is recognition, which is anything but indifference. You first have to address something in order to dismiss it. Even if the dismissal is the entirety of your purpose. That is why it is so insulting/amusing. If it wasn't, then it'd be a total waste of effort.

[TonyTheTiger]

But it's a letter to the editor section. That's a catch 22. It's designed to give voice to a cross section of the community. If they didn't print the letters they wanted to dismiss that would be an even greater disservice. And it would make the entire section pointless since we wouldn't get to see any of the letters reflecting ideas we think are off base enough to justify a dismissive attitude.

[Gameguy]

The magazine could have said, "We still stand by our reviews, though you're entitled to your own opinion". That would have been a bit more polite.

[BetaWolf47]

No, if they chose to publish the letter, they should have explained to him what they thought was wrong with it.

[TonyTheTiger]

The magazine could have said, "We still stand by our reviews, though you're entitled to your own opinion". That would have been a bit more polite.

And completely miss the point in the process. That doesn't say the same thing.


No, if they chose to publish the letter, they should have explained to him what they thought was wrong with it.

And validate the rant in the process. That completely misses the point. That doesn't say the same thing.

[tom]

Wasn't Next Gen the US version of Edge? Yep, they're a bunch of guys with their heads up their arses.

I own these issues, man I never seen a mag with so many mistakes as in Edge:

Issue 1…Oct 1993, Issue 2…Nov 1993, Issue 3…Dec 1993, Issue 4…Jan 1994, Issue 5…Feb 1994, Issue 6…March 1994,
Issue 7…April 1994, Issue 8…May 1994, Issue 9…June 1994, Issue 10…July 1994, Issue 11…Aug 1994,
Issue 12…Sept 1994, Issue 13…Oct 1994, Issue 14…Nov 1994, Issue 15…Dec 1994, Issue 16…Jan 1995,
Issue 17…Feb 1995, Issue 18…March 1995, Issue 19…April 1995, Issue 20…May 1995, Issue 21…June 1995,
Issue 22…July 1995, Issue 23…Aug 1995, Issue 24…Sept 1995, Issue 25…Oct 1995, Issue 26…Nov 1995,
Issue 27…Dec 1995, Issue 28…Jan 1996, Issue 29…Feb 1996, Issue 30…March 1996, Issue 31…April 1996,
Issue 32…May 1996, Issue 33…June 1996, Issue 34…July 1996, Issue 35…Aug 1996, Issue 36…Sept 1996,
Issue 37…Oct 1996, Issue 38…Nov 1996, Issue 39…Dec 1996, Issue 40…Christmas 1996, Issue 41…Jan 1997,
Issue 42…Feb 1997, Issue 43…March 1997, Issue 44…April 1997, Issue 45…May 1997, Issue 46…June 1997,
Issue 47…July 1997, Issue 48…Aug 1997, Issue 49…Sept 1997, Issue 50…Oct 1997, Issue 51…Nov 1997,
Issue 52…Dec 1997, Issue 53…Christmas 1997, Issue 54…Jan 1998, Issue 55…Feb 1998, Issue 56…March 1998,
Issue 57…April 1998, Issue 58…May 1998, Issue 59…June 1998, Issue 60…July 1998, Issue 61…Aug 1998,
Issue 62…Sept 1998, Issue 63…Oct 1998, Issue 64…Nov 1998, Issue 65…Dec 1998, Issue 66…Christmas 1998,
Issue 67…Jan 1999, Issue 68…Feb 1999, Issue 69…March 1999, Issue 70…April 1999, Issue 71…May 1999,
Issue 72…June 1999, Issue 73…July 1999, Issue 74…Aug 1999, Issue 75…Sept 1999, Issue 76…Oct 1999,
Issue 77…Autumn 1999, Issue 78…Nov 1999, Issue 79…Dec 1999, Issue 80…Jan 2000, Issue 81…Feb 2000,
Issue 82…March 2000, Issue 83…April 2000, Issue 84…May 2000, Issue 85…June 2000, Issue 86…July 2000,
Issue 87…Aug 2000, Issue 88…Sept 2000, Issue 90…Nov 2000, Issue 91…Dec 2000, Issue 92…Christmas 2000,
Issue 93…Jan 2001, Issue 94…Feb 2001, Issue 95…March 2001, Issue 96…April 2001, Issue 97…May 2001,
Issue 98…June 2001, Issue 99…July 2001, Issue 100…Aug 2001, Issue 101…Sept 2001, Issue 102…Oct 2001,
Issue 103…Nov 2001, Issue 104…Dec 2001, Issue 105…Christmas 2001, Issue 106…Jan 2002, Issue 107…Feb 2002,
Issue 108…March 2002, Issue 109…April 2002, Issue 110…May 2002, Issue 111…June 2002, Issue 112…July 2002,
Issue 113…Aug 2002, Issue 114…Sept 2002, Issue 115…Oct 2002, Issue 116…Nov 2002, Issue 117…Dec 2002,
Issue 118…Christmas 2002, Issue 119…Jan 2003, Issue 120…Feb 2003, Issue 121…Mar 2003, Issue 122…Apr 2003,
Issue 123…May 2003, Issue 124…June 2003, Issue 125…July 2003, Issue 126…Aug 2003, Issue 127…Sept 2003,
Issue 128…Oct 2003, Issue 129…Nov 2003, Issue 130…Dec 2003, Issue 131…Christmas 2003, Issue 132…Jan 2004,
Issue 133…Feb 2004, Issue 134…Mar 2004, Issue 135…April 2004, Issue 136…May 2004,
Issue 137…June 2004, Issue 149…May 2005

Actually, I had an argument with a Super Play (same stable) guy once, and after I confirmed him with facts (running over several issues (he didn't know/have an answer anyway, all he could do was to make fun of a spelling mistake I did; professional? I think not)), he, in the end, just printed, 'yeah whatever'. So for all I'm concerned, he lost that argument.
Later on in the last issue of SP he was going to be clever and on the last page he printed a statemant how he felt about me, with grammatical errors. That totally backfired...
All I can say is, professionalism from Future Publishing at its best, NOT.

[Arkhan]

And completely miss the point in the process. That doesn't say the same thing.

Good. It shouldn't. One says "were dickbags" and the other says "we disagree but we're legit enough to not be dickbags about it just because were in charge of things"



And validate the rant in the process. That completely misses the point. That doesn't say the same thing.

Printing the letter validates the rant automagically. You printed it, therefore it was valid enough.

There is a right way to dismiss someones argumentative letter, and a wrong way.

Like was already said, all you have to do is say something like

"we respectfully disagree with your rant, and stand by what we said."

[TonyTheTiger]

Good. It shouldn't. One says "were dickbags" and the other says "we disagree but we're legit enough to not be dickbags about it just because were in charge of things"

You're asking for them to be politicians. One of the biggest complaints about politicians is that they don't call people on their shit and give droning PR responses.



Printing the letter validates the rant automagically. You printed it, therefore it was valid enough.

Don't use that argument because it's a catch 22. It's a letter to the editor column. They're supposed to print letters, good and bad. If they don't print letters that reflect an accurate cross section of the readership (in this case the Comic Book Guy caricature) then the entire section is worthless. You keep acting like this was an isolated incident. I'm telling you the sentiment was common. In order to publicly dismiss the sentiment they have to print a letter reflecting it.


There is a right way to dismiss someones argumentative letter, and a wrong way.

Like was already said, all you have to do is say something like

"we respectfully disagree with your rant, and stand by what we said."

You and I have different ideas of what constitutes "dismissal" because that statement of yours says nothing of the sort. What it says is "You might be right but we also might be. Your opinion is equally valid, though." What the response is meant to convey is "your opinion is stupid because you haven't rationally thought it through." How do you respectfully tell somebody they're irrational and not worth listening to?

And don't say "they shouldn't have printed the letter then if they wanted to say that" because that goes back to the catch 22. Then they get slammed for only printing letters that are praiseworthy.

In case you can't tell, I really don't like PR nonsense. Say what you mean and mean what you say. If somebody is being irrational, call them irrational. Don't tell them "we respect your opinion" when you really don't. That's deceptive and disingenuous.

[Arkhan]

what the writer says isn't really off-base though....doesn't sound too irrational to me.

and, case in point, euhhh, 2D fighters still trump 3D fighters... soooooooo.


oh well, i would have been alot friendlier even if the guy was being a pole smoker.

[Gameguy]

You're asking for them to be politicians. One of the biggest complaints about politicians is that they don't call people on their shit and give droning PR responses.




Don't use that argument because it's a catch 22. It's a letter to the editor column. They're supposed to print letters, good and bad. If they don't print letters that reflect an accurate cross section of the readership (in this case the Comic Book Guy caricature) then the entire section is worthless. You keep acting like this was an isolated incident. I'm telling you the sentiment was common. In order to publicly dismiss the sentiment they have to print a letter reflecting it.



You and I have different ideas of what constitutes "dismissal" because that statement of yours says nothing of the sort. What it says is "You might be right but we also might be. Your opinion is equally valid, though." What the response is meant to convey is "your opinion is stupid because you haven't rationally thought it through." How do you respectfully tell somebody they're irrational and not worth listening to?

And don't say "they shouldn't have printed the letter then if they wanted to say that" because that goes back to the catch 22. Then they get slammed for only printing letters that are praiseworthy.

In case you can't tell, I really don't like PR nonsense. Say what you mean and mean what you say. If somebody is being irrational, call them irrational. Don't tell them "we respect your opinion" when you really don't. That's deceptive and disingenuous.

Yeah, whatever.




:angel:

[rbudrick]

Reminds me of (I think) Donn Nauert's review of an NES game where his entire review was "Just another karate game."

Thanks, dude. Professional.

Goes to show the early writers were not, umm, writers by trade.

It did crack me up back in the day, though,

Strangely, I remember the game being pretty good, whatever it was...can't remember the name.

-Rob

[TonyTheTiger]

what the writer says isn't really off-base though....doesn't sound too irrational to me.

and, case in point, euhhh, 2D fighters still trump 3D fighters... soooooooo.


oh well, i would have been alot friendlier even if the guy was being a pole smoker.

If it were a random letter complaining about a particular review then I'd probably agree with you. But it came off as the typical whiny rant against 3D that I rolled my eyes at back in the 90s. Suffice to say that after reading the letter, even before reading the response, an eyeroll came to mind. So seeing "yeah, whatever" pretty much conformed to my impression. Call me biased because I probably am. It's not like I'd approve of that kind of response to every critical letter sent in but to that kind of letter I tend to feel the same way.


Yeah, whatever.




:angel:
^^;


Reminds me of (I think) Donn Nauert's review of an NES game where his entire review was "Just another karate game."

Thanks, dude. Professional.

Goes to show the early writers were not, umm, writers by trade.

They still aren't. I'll be the first one to criticize Gamespot and IGN for having virtually no real journalism training or writing proficiency. Pick a random review and you'll find spelling/diction/grammatical errors, bad composition, and just generally unprofessional work. Kotaku can get away with it because it's just a glorified blog. I just didn't find the response to this letter in particular so offensive. But I'll be the first to say that gaming journalism tends to be anything but.

[Arkhan]

the letter isnt that whiney.

I mean there were and still are people that think 3D is instantly > 2D, and review things in the wrong light altogether.

[TonyTheTiger]

There are. And I'd think :roll: to them as well.

[Rob2600]

Reminds me of (I think) Donn Nauert's review of an NES game where his entire review was "Just another karate game."

Thanks, dude. Professional.

Goes to show the early writers were not, umm, writers by trade.

From what I've read during the last 15 years, most of them still aren't.

[BetaWolf47]

Depends which reviewers you're talking about. I've had a reviewer change my entire perception of a certain current-gen system because of how subjective, well-written, and non-whiny it is, in addition to the strong support given to the argument.

[TonyTheTiger]

I wonder what percentage of game journalists have actual journalism training. I never get the impression that these guys actually come out with journalism degrees and then become editors of game magazines or have experience at CNN/Reuters/NYT/etc. and then move on to IGN. Maybe I'm off base but I always got the impression that most gaming journalists sort of fell into the job.

[Arkhan]

most of them probably did.

The magazine was probably looking for arrogant pole smokers that have no problem writing nonsense as long as they get paid. :)

[Berserker]

The response didn't bother me, but I have an extremely low opinion of professional game writing (calling it "gaming journalism" is an insult to journalism). The standards are low to the point of basically not existing, and the field itself (at the mainstream, professional level) is compromised to the point where it's now basically just an arm of the advertising industry.

So yeah, it's hard to be insulted when you're not expecting anything. Personally, I put an order of magnitude more stock into what most people in here have to say over Gamespot or IGN. Apparently there have been a few (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26552/Study_Word_Of_Mouth_Biggest_Influencer_In_Game_Pur chases.php) studies (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26223/Analyst_Review_Scores_Least_Important_Factor_For_G ame_Purchases.php) indicating that others feel similarly, which is probably why companies (like Sony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony#Controversy)) are starting to shift part of their advertising budget from magazines to outright astroturfing.

[Aussie2B]

Regardless of how rational or irrational the letter may have been, Next Gen literally had no other option in how they could respond to such a letter. If they were polite and said that they respectfully disagreed, that would give the impression that such thoughts about the magazine are just as valid as positive thoughts. Even though, yes, everyone is technically entitled to their opinions no matter what, the magazine is still a business. It's their job to present themselves as if their work is objectively of high quality. Telling this guy that he's entitled to his opinion would do nothing but a disservice to Next Gen.

As for game journalism vs. traditional journalism, degrees in journalism can just as likely crank out reviewers just as bad at writing about games as those that love games but can't write worth a damn. I hate to see either scenario. It takes BOTH passion for games and passion for improving as a writer, one or the other doesn't cut it. If somebody wanted to become a game journalist these days, I wouldn't recommend a degree in journalism. They'd be better off fostering their love of writing and games on sites like Honestgamers and then do what they can to get their foot through the door somewhere someday. Not that it's that wise to get into game journalism these days in the first place, what with magazines dying left and right and gaming websites that care about breaking news more than an artful, witty, well-researched piece that takes considerable time and effort.

[ryborg]

If somebody wanted to become a game journalist these days, I wouldn't recommend a degree in journalism.

As an owner of a four-year degree in journalism, I wouldn't recommend it to *anyone* today.

[tom]

I bet all these so-called celebrity people/ cook book/ celebrity Big Brother book *writers* rubbish don't have that. And they're best-sellers, that's all what counts nowadays

[Arkhan]

man I thought that said cock book and I was like "what the hell is tom reading"

[BetaWolf47]

Regardless of how rational or irrational the letter may have been, Next Gen literally had no other option in how they could respond to such a letter. If they were polite and said that they respectfully disagreed, that would give the impression that such thoughts about the magazine are just as valid as positive thoughts. Even though, yes, everyone is technically entitled to their opinions no matter what, the magazine is still a business. It's their job to present themselves as if their work is objectively of high quality. Telling this guy that he's entitled to his opinion would do nothing but a disservice to Next Gen.
I agree with this, but I have yet to see any reason for them to have published that letter. Tossing it out the window would've been a much better choice, because it'd basically be saying, "Your letter isn't good enough to appear in our magazine. Send us something other than baseless trolling and maybe we'll talk." For all we know, B. Allen might have just been trolling, just so he could get his name in a nationally distributed magazine.