Ninja Gaiden - NES vs. PC Engine [Archive] - Page 2

05-24-2010, 10:19 PM

The key to tolerance is to be intolerant of the intolerant. I know its ironic. That comment of yours shows that your a person who has troubles understanding people and how everyone deserves the same respect and admiration for who they are. Unless they are criminals... or Hitler...

Judge a person based on who they are, not the way that they are made.

No personal offense but.....sheesh.

I find it hard to believe that anyone voicing a disagreeing opinion or personal preference on a social/economic/political/religious issue is instantly a dick because they don't embrace every opinion and idea with open arms.

Many people view cross dressing as an abnormal behavior with a negative stigma attached. I would venture to say the majority of Americans feel that way. I don't see how their opinion is any less valid than someone who thinks the opposite. A dissenting opinion does not necessarily denote ignorance of the subject ie; trouble understanding why one would crossdress.

And to keep from derailing further, from the looks of this thread several people have made judgment for many varying reasons that extend way beyond wearing the opposite sex's clothes.

JimmyDean

05-24-2010, 10:21 PM

I am not in any way anti-gay or a racist. Cross-dressing however, makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable.

Ryaan1234

05-24-2010, 10:26 PM

I am not in any way anti-gay or a racist. Cross-dressing however, makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable.
You should probably look at this discussion (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114448) we had a few years ago.

j_factor

05-24-2010, 10:59 PM

No personal offense but.....sheesh.

I find it hard to believe that anyone voicing a disagreeing opinion or personal preference on a social/economic/political/religious issue is instantly a dick because they don't embrace every opinion and idea with open arms.

You don't have to embrace everything, but bringing up cross-dressing in the way he did is kind of a dick move. How is it at all relevant that he dressed in women's clothing a couple times? Who cares?

Many people view cross dressing as an abnormal behavior with a negative stigma attached. I would venture to say the majority of Americans feel that way. I don't see how their opinion is any less valid than someone who thinks the opposite. A dissenting opinion does not necessarily denote ignorance of the subject ie; trouble understanding why one would crossdress.

How is saying "total flamer" in relation to cross-dressing not ignorant? The vast majority of men who cross-dress are straight. Not only is it ignorant of the subject of cross-dressing, it also comes across as homophobic.

The DP community is pretty large. We have a significant number of gay users, and most likely a couple of "flamers" and a couple of people who like to cross-dress. No one should feel unwelcome or stigmatized because of anything like that.

[I hope this doesn't sound like I'm defending Nintega. I think he's a douche and don't dispute any of the other complaints against him.]

JimmyDean

05-24-2010, 11:08 PM

[Removed]

Ryaan1234

05-24-2010, 11:15 PM

We've had worse flame wars, don't sweat it :P

Flack

05-24-2010, 11:16 PM

[Removed]

Gone, 14 days.

{EDIT} PS: I wanted all these morons to knock it off via PM's yesterday. It's obvious to me at this point that they have no interest in adding to the forum and are here simply to sling mud at one another. They can do that somewhere else. I expect the other two to join them shortly.

Zap!

05-24-2010, 11:28 PM

Why do you always add "affordable" to the list of advantages? Sure, cheaper games would be great on my budget, but I don't believe it's a relative comparison. If it was, you would see game magazines add it to the list in their ratings. Just my opinion anyway.

Sothy

05-24-2010, 11:29 PM

pachukas gonna be pissed.

Rob2600

05-24-2010, 11:50 PM

PC Engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWipa6aWpSA

That is the worst parallax scrolling I've ever seen!

I just watched that video. Wow. What were the developers thinking?? The distant backgrounds don't move...but they do...but they don't...

Sonicwolf

05-25-2010, 12:05 AM

I just watched that video. Wow. What were the developers thinking?? The distant backgrounds don't move...but they do...but they don't...

That is bizarre. I have never quite seen scrolling that jerky before. I wonder if it's just the recording...

*looks for other video's*

Wow. The background scrolling is actually like that. It makes it hard to focus on the action. Just because of that, I am leaning towards the Nintendo Entertainment System version. I mean, god, the jerky scrolling stands out so much.

Enigmus

05-25-2010, 12:07 AM

I think that to stop the fanning of these confused GameFAQs escapees' flames, this should be used as a general warning link to get fighting 12 year olds like these two to shut up and pretend to be civilized.

I swear, it looked EXACTLY like a 6th grade recess argument...

Ed Oscuro

05-25-2010, 12:22 AM

I mean, god, the jerky scrolling stands out so much.
It doesn't, you mean.

I am not in any way anti-gay or a racist. Cross-dressing however, makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable.
It's bad form to make fun of somebody banned, but man, this just aches for a Boy George "not gay enough" reference.

Or not. Hooray for Flack!

Sonicwolf

05-25-2010, 12:37 AM

It doesn't, you mean.

So you don't find the background in those TG16 with the scrolling distracting at all?

Ed Oscuro

05-25-2010, 12:41 AM

So you don't find the background in those TG16 with the scrolling distracting at all?
You said they didn't move much...so...they don't stand out as much as they should? No, I knew what you meant...:lovin:

Actually, if we're talking SGX G'n'G...oh wait, shucks. Why would the PCE parallax be so bad, anyway? It's been a loong while since I've played this one and only on an emurater at that.

*looks*

Well, that's farther than I got. Holy cow! The clouds! God, man/men/everyone, THE CLOUDS! Something has got to be fucked with the video capture. I can't really imagine the clouds would move quickly enough for the infamous wagon wheels turning backwards effect (i.e. undersampling causing false movement) to be causing this, though, since when he moves back the clouds just kind of jitter the other way.

Yeah that's distracting as hell.

Sonicwolf

05-25-2010, 12:51 AM

Holy cow! The clouds! God, man/men/everyone, THE CLOUDS! Something has got to be fucked with the video capture. I can't really imagine the clouds would move quickly enough for the infamous wagon wheels turning backwards effect (i.e. undersampling causing false movement) to be causing this, though, since when he moves back the clouds just kind of jitter the other way.

Yeah that's distracting as hell.

In every video I have found of levels containing scrolling levels from the TG16 version of the game, the effect is the same. It just kind of vibrates from side to side in a distracting sort of way. I doubt its a recording problem.

Makes me wonder if the makers of the game were forced to leave that the way it was because of technical limitations, time restraint or just good old fashioned ignorance.

j_factor

05-25-2010, 01:02 AM

It can't be technical limitations. TG16 may not have been the best at parallax, but they certainly didn't have to make it look like that.

Ed Oscuro

05-25-2010, 01:08 AM

In every video I have found of levels containing scrolling levels from the TG16 version of the game, the effect is the same. It just kind of vibrates from side to side in a distracting sort of way. I doubt its a recording problem.
Yet all Youtube videos should be 30FPS...perhaps...I'll have a look on an emulator later; I've got the ROM here. But yeah I think they done fucked up.

todesengel

05-25-2010, 07:09 AM

I also always wondered why the parallax was so bad in the PCE Ninja Gaiden. After reading this thread I knew that I had at least 1 game that showed off good parallax on the PCE and that was Dead Moon. There really seems to be no excuse other than lazy programming I figure for how bad the parallax in Ninja Gaiden is.

Rob2600

05-25-2010, 08:17 AM

That is bizarre. I have never quite seen scrolling that jerky before. I wonder if it's just the recording...

*looks for other video's*

Wow. The background scrolling is actually like that. It makes it hard to focus on the action.

Actually, if you look closely, the distant background never scrolls. It's just a static image in every level...but every time the screen scrolls, the distant background static image gets displaced an inch for half a second, then moves back to its normal position.

It's extremely distracting when the screen is constantly scrolling and the distant background is vibrating back and forth- normal static position, displaced an inch, normal static position, displaced an inch. It's very strange and in this case, a single flat background would've looked better.

But yeah, that distant background really doesn't scroll, it just vibrates back and forth the whole time. Have another look. :)

Icarus Moonsight

05-25-2010, 09:13 AM

All we were missing from having an all-out Cock Fight there was razor blades strapped to feet. Some peoples children... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OD6Tr65nk0

Some good came of it, it brought back Handbags and Tranies. :D

PC-ENGINE HELL

05-25-2010, 09:21 AM

The scrolling background on the Pc-Engine Ninja Gaiden just scrolls like that. It had nothing to do with the capture system. I think it was just Hudson trying something new, and it ended up not working out well. If all you are used to playing is the Tecmo Nes version, then yea, it can be pretty distracting. Really Hudson should have left the bg alone, or perfected it before release on PCE.

Arkhan

05-25-2010, 11:29 AM

The parallax in Ninja Gaiden on PCE reminds me of one thing, and one thing only...

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper929/stills/40362f5ece385-88-2.jpg

its just a jump to the left!

and then a step to the riiiiight!

Also, hasn't twisted sister taught us anything about how cool drag is? ffs.

seriously though, the PCE wasn't bad at parallax. The people who did the bad parallax were bad at parallax, lol.

Rob2600

05-25-2010, 01:38 PM

Actually, if you look closely, the distant background never scrolls. It's just a static image in every level...but every time the screen scrolls, the distant background static image gets displaced an inch for half a second, then moves back to its normal position. ...

the distant background really doesn't scroll, it just vibrates back and forth the whole time. Have another look. :)

The scrolling background on the Pc-Engine Ninja Gaiden just scrolls like that. It had nothing to do with the capture system.

Again, the far background in the PCE version doesn't actually scroll. It just vibrates back and forth whenever the closer background scrolls. It's easier to see this horrible effect on level two, instead of level one.

jb143

05-25-2010, 01:45 PM

I've only played The PCE version on a emulator and all this time I thought that wonky "scrolling" was just a problem with emulation.

tomaitheous

05-25-2010, 02:04 PM

Makes me wonder if the makers of the game were forced to leave that the way it was because of technical limitations, time restraint or just good old fashioned ignorance.

^This.

While technically the "far" BG layer doesn't scroll but remains static, it's still technically a second scrolling layer... as in it has it's own X/Y position independent of the foreground layer.

And yes, I believe the effect wasn't finished. What is missing is the dynamic tile frames that go in between the "jumping" points (which are just tilemap updates every so many pixels scrolled on the real X/Y registers). Either they ran out of rom space for it, or just cut it out (down sizing the rom project). Either way, it's half ass. I think later (or some) levels, it's not as distracting if you play the game VS just watching a video of it (I've beaten the game and it's not as distracting to me).

Still, there should have been an option to turn that off since they half ass'd it. That was a poor decision IMO. (I could probably create a hack to turn that off if there was a enough demand for it) One of the biggest disappoints of the game, is the music though. The scrolling artifacts be damned, it's the music that's the real tragedy. Not that the music sucks, it's just not as kick ass as the original tunes. Hell, they could have left the music as is without any "upgrades" and it would have been perfect. Too bad.

Ed Oscuro

05-25-2010, 02:05 PM

The wild card is, of course, that all these videos are recorded with FRAPS (or something similar) off Magic Engine...

EDIT: Disregard this.

PC-ENGINE HELL

05-25-2010, 02:12 PM

Again, the far background in the PCE version doesn't actually scroll. It just vibrates back and forth whenever the closer background scrolls. It's easier to see this horrible effect on level two, instead of level one.
That because on level 1 (the background city scape), it actually scrolls left or right instead of staying kinda static like stage 2 on up did. Ive never beat the PCE release, so I don't know if any other stage besides stage 1 does this, but I doubt it.

PC-ENGINE HELL

05-25-2010, 02:22 PM

The wild card is, of course, that all these videos are recorded with FRAPS (or something similar) off Magic Engine...

On my end, no. I have a capture system built using a Athlon Xp 2600+ on a Nforce 2 Ultra board. The card I use is a Gainward Ti4200 Golden Sample. It supports VIVO. I use WinCoder to cap the videos off of real game hardware at 720x480 resolution, then edit said videos on my Phenom based comp with Womble. Even on my Outrun 2006 videos, I did the same thing, running one computer into the other via s-video out. I don't bother with Fraps, or emus in general, unless I just need a still pic, or gauge FPS in a game that doesn't have a built in benchmark tool. I'm not running a professional setup by any means, but it does smoke the standard USB cap things some people use.

edit: accidental double post grrrr

tomaitheous

05-25-2010, 03:09 PM

That because on level 1 (the background city scape), it actually scrolls left or right instead of staying kinda static like stage 2 on up did. Ive never beat the PCE release, so I don't know if any other stage besides stage 1 does this, but I doubt it.

That might be why the later levels aren't as distracting on that scrolling (I didn't particularly pay attention to the scrolling past level 1). I.e. you have less "waiting" in between frames if the far "bg" scrolls rather than staying still.

Ed Oscuro

05-25-2010, 04:27 PM

edit: accidental double post grrrr
I corrected myself like seven minutes before you posted anyway. Don't worry, I trust ya man.

PC-ENGINE HELL

05-25-2010, 04:56 PM

Lol yea, no I just hate doing two post back to back. I wasn't paying attention and thought that post of yours I quoted was after the other I did. In reality I should have just edited the other and added what I posted in reply to you, but like I said, wasn't paying attention. You did bring up a valid point though. Its pretty common for people to just use emus for their youtube vids. I have qualms with that, because emus will mask some of the bugs, ect that occur on normal hardware.

Ninja Commando and Fatal Fury on NeoGeo are good examples of that. They have graphical glitches on the real hardware that isn't present on emulators if I remember right. I think (just my opinion) that if you are going to show off a game in a video, you should try to do so as much as possible with the original hardware, not with roms and emus, so you can show what the end result was on real system hardware. I get why people use the emu stuff though, some people dont have access to the original games and systems, or dont have access to solid capture hardware.

Also, on the Pce Ninja Gaiden, my major issue with the game was the timings were a tad diff. Due to that I cant blow through it at the same pace as I can the Nes one. Its not that its not smooth or anything, just feels a bit reworked on things like wall climbing/jumping, and double sword slashes in air.

Ed Oscuro

05-25-2010, 06:07 PM

I think (just my opinion) that if you are going to show off a game in a video, you should try to do so as much as possible with the original hardware, not with roms and emus, so you can show what the end result was on real system hardware.
I agree with this completely. I've been wanting to do some videos of some of the ZOMG RARE!!1 stuff I have but getting the pipeline to a PC capture is aggravating for some machines.

Also I should have been careful when I wrote that, I wasn't paying attention to whose video I was watching or what the capture was, so I kind of carpet bomb-slammed everybody without justification >_> Can't say how many times I've seen crappy emulator videos though (and of course a few games nobody has so emulators are pretty much the only choice).

Peonpiate

05-25-2010, 06:43 PM

This is offtopic, but since this is somewhat of a PC-Engine thread...The PCE version of Operation wolf kicks some serious ass. If the OP wasnt banned I would have liked to see him do a VS thread on that [vs NES]. Im sure he would find a way to say the NES version is better though! :frustrated:

Ed Oscuro

05-25-2010, 07:25 PM

If the OP wasnt banned I would have liked to see him do a VS thread on that [vs NES].
I'm sure we'll live without his "expert" commentary. You could give it a shot and do no worse, I'm sure.

I'm just not sure the Forum really needs another of these.

The 1 2 P

05-25-2010, 07:53 PM

Wow. I missed alot. Anyway, I haven't played the PC Engine version of Ninja Gaiden yet but I have played the Game Gear version and it pales in comparison to the Nes version. I too have wondered why the PCE version is so pricey. I'm guessing it's because it never got a US release. Maybe it will get a virtual console release on the Wii, although that wouldn't neccesarily be a good thing(unless they allow the classic controller to be used).

Voliko

05-25-2010, 09:28 PM

WAY off topic but, speaking of Ninja Gaiden, In class today, me and my English teacher got into this huge debate about Ninja Gaiden vs. Kung Fu. His favorite NES game is Kung Fu and I was vouching for Ninja Gaiden.

Needless to say, after much straw-manning and showcasing of gameplay videos of both games to the class, the class voted in favor of Ninja Gaiden.

rbudrick

05-28-2010, 01:33 AM

Mathius

05-29-2010, 01:25 AM

I got the PCE version just a few weeks ago. I grew up with the NES version and a little biased towards it, but I still enjoy the PCE one even if the music isn't nearly as good.

AbnormalMapping

06-02-2010, 09:37 AM

[ (I could probably create a hack to turn that off if there was a enough demand for it) ]

How much work would be involved? I'd love to see this.

tomaitheous

06-02-2010, 02:34 PM

[ (I could probably create a hack to turn that off if there was a enough demand for it) ]

How much work would be involved? I'd love to see this.

Won't know how much work it is until I get into the code. But I would assume it's probably something alongs the lines of locating the "counter" variable in ram and that "increments" the pseudo background, and hook my own code to keep it from incrementing or decrementing.