Composite vs. RGB vs. S-Video vs. Component vs. HDMI vs. RF vs. VGA

[Oldskool]

OK, now I know that on the more modern consoles S-Video and RGB looks MUCH better. But am I not the only one that agrees that, on some games, Composite actually looks better? Like the graphics blend in together a bit better and so forth? Or am I just crazy? It seems that with such massive detail, it also makes things look more pixelated as well, especially on an HD tv.

Am I nuts? I just see these screen shot comparisons (like the Sonic title screen a few days ago and the RGB contra screenshots today), and both times I thought that the Composite looked better. Maybe it's because I am so up close to the screen or something. Maybe sitting 6 feet away on a couch will change that, not sure.

I know that on a newer console that actually has great resolution this is not the case.

[Enigmus]

Yeah, I also think composite looks better than an RGB monitor in some cases.

Also, I can't wait for the day that there's HDMI mods using add-on boards. "Hey, look at my HDMI modded NES! It outputs at 1080i, making a 1-UP 'shroom look like my eyeball!"

[Tempest]

If the game was designed to take advantage of composite or RF 'blurriness' then they tend to look worse in S-Video or Component. Many game designers counted on colors bleeding together and jagged pixels blurring together to make the graphics look better. When you take this away and get the literal graphic without any graphical fudging it tends to look bad. This is why I think the SNES looks better in composite even though it supports S-Video.

Tempest

[Oldskool]

If the game was designed to take advantage of composite or RF 'blurriness' then they tend to look worse in S-Video or Component. Many game designers counted on colors bleeding together and jagged pixels blurring together to make the graphics look better. When you take this away and get the literal graphic without any graphical fudging it tends to look bad. This is why I think the SNES looks better in composite even though it supports S-Video.

Tempest

Yeah I dunno. I ended up getting a S-Video cable for my SNES and I think it looks much better.

[izarate]

If the game was designed to take advantage of composite or RF 'blurriness' then they tend to look worse in S-Video or Component. Many game designers counted on colors bleeding together and jagged pixels blurring together to make the graphics look better. When you take this away and get the literal graphic without any graphical fudging it tends to look bad. This is why I think the SNES looks better in composite even though it supports S-Video.

Tempest

I'd say that was more the case with the Genesis. Several games seemed to rely on color banding and other composite twitchs.





As OP said, I also notice that some games look better with composite rather than with S-Video. SFA2 for the SNES looks better in composite in my opinion (specially Dan's face) but I still like the S-Video picture better. For the N64 I'd say that it's like 50/50, bright games (Super Mario 64 and the like) seem to fare better with S-Video. Of course, this is a matter of preference.

[Thrillo]

That's why I'm reluctant to move from a SD CRT, I have almost nothing to gain since I watch little TV and my newest system is a Wii (480i/p), and everything to lose. I do however, use s-video as much as possible, though 32X composite does look better for some Genny games. Straight Genny composite is ass, though.

[arcadecup]

I have a stockpile of brand new 19" crt tvs mothballed for the day people start crying for the beautiful glow of electrons lighting up phosphor.

I am collecting some of the best hdtv crts for classic gaming.. It will be a cold day in hell that I play a classic console on a lcd or plasma.

[Trebuken]

I think the variations in preferences here are most likely due to different TV's for each individual. Some handle different inputs better than others; screen size can affect pixelization; how close you sit.

I like the HD CRT route myself for theolder consoles. I have a good one, but they are not created equal, results vary. Mine upscales most incoming signals and does a great job with older consoles. Others have had different luck.

Find yourself a good CRT if you still can. Spares may not be a bad idea.

[Zing]

Most people have the sharpness setting on their TV set too high. The ideal setting is usually the minimum.

I have my PlayStation connected via composite on my 32" Wega CRT. I haven't tried it with S-Video in a while. I'll give it another try today and see what I think.

[Oldskool]

I think that's very true about the sharpness settings. On a newer console you want it to look very sharp. But I noticed on the older consoles somewhere near 60-70 percent is best.

On an LCD I noticed that with composite, if you actually drop the sharpness down to 0 it greatly improves the picture.

[jb143]

If the game was designed to take advantage of composite or RF 'blurriness' then they tend to look worse in S-Video or Component. Many game designers counted on colors bleeding together and jagged pixels blurring together to make the graphics look better. When you take this away and get the literal graphic without any graphical fudging it tends to look bad. This is why I think the SNES looks better in composite even though it supports S-Video.

Tempest

Some games were designed to blur the colors/pixels together and will look better when allowed to do so. For RF though, you also have audio on the same signal as video which adds extra noise causing un-needed fuzzyness. This wasn't done to blur the colors together. This was done because most people's TV sets only had an antenna input at the time. At the very least, getting the audio and video on seperate signals will get you what the game was "originally designed for". Or what other people said. Get the best signal you can and adjust it on the TV end.

[cityside75]

Most people have the sharpness setting on their TV set too high. The ideal setting is usually the minimum.

Yes. I have a couple of calibration DVD's for my home theater, and they all recommend turning the sharpness all the way down to the minimum, or one above the minimum if the lowest setting introduces excessive blurriness (this is rare from what I gather). The sharpness setting is a holdover from very old tv sets, and in most cases anything above the minimum actually ADDS noise around edges on the picture to "enhance" them. Any TV made within the last 15-20 years or so has a sharp enough picture that these enhancements aren't necessary and are actually detrimental to the picture.

[Greg2600]

I don't see any great difference between Composite and S-Video on an HDTV. Even the RF comes in clear, the only downside I've seen is that the colors are not as vibrant, but that's a result of crappy RF. I personally wouldn't bother with Component for anything below the "6th" generation and even then the main ones are PS2 and XBOX.

[Black_Tiger]

OK, now I know that on the more modern consoles S-Video and RGB looks MUCH better. But am I not the only one that agrees that, on some games, Composite actually looks better? Like the graphics blend in together a bit better and so forth? Or am I just crazy? It seems that with such massive detail, it also makes things look more pixelated as well, especially on an HD tv.

With consoles like the SMS, Genesis and TG-16/Duo, the imperfect composite signals do more than blend things with blurring. the colors are washed out and drabber than they really are before being outputted and there are other problems with the Sega output quality.

If you really like the look of composite video for classic consoles like these, you should get an s-video mod or XMD-3 and then use an s-video-to-composite adapter (cheap and tiny) to play them in composite with full picture quality. You'll get the best of both.

Here are some pics that show the difference-

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/video666.html

[Arkhan]

I use RF where possible. I love RF on the Sega Genesis.

My breakdown of some consoles and their hookups:

Atari 2600: One of those doodads to make it hook up to RF the sane way
Master System: RF
NES: RF, unless I happen to be going composite into a 1084 monitor. Both look the same honestly
SNES: RF with the audio going to a stereo
PCE: Composite
MSX: RGB. Anything else is terrorism.

hell, I used RF on playstation saturn and dreamcast for like 2 years. Everyone makes fun of RF. I think it's pretty damned fine lol.

I don't bother modifying my systems for SVIDEO and crap. Too much work for something mundane. I'm not going to remember the 5% increase in video quality after I stop playing and go do something else.

[tomaitheous]

I don't see any great difference between Composite and S-Video on an HDTV. Even the RF comes in clear, the only downside I've seen is that the colors are not as vibrant, but that's a result of crappy RF. I personally wouldn't bother with Component for anything below the "6th" generation and even then the main ones are PS2 and XBOX.

You're wackado! Oh wait, never mind. I read 'component' as 'composite' in your post.

To the original poster: ignorance is bliss, right? I admit, I have nostalgic yearn for composite video, from BITD too. I absolutely love the NES on composite out on an old SDTV. TG and SNES too. Except for Genesis. The composite is too crappy. I have to admit though, SNES looks beautiful in s-video on my SD set. I assume my TG/PCE will too once I get that setup. But the Genesis is in the worst need of it, by far. It's composite output makes the image look worse than NES (aesthetics). RF is ok on a few systems. But I wouldn't use it unless I had no other option (or if the SD set was pretty small. Then it wouldn't matter).

[Oldskool]

You're wackado! Oh wait, never mind. I read 'component' as 'composite' in your post.

To the original poster: ignorance is bliss, right? I admit, I have nostalgic yearn for composite video, from BITD too. I absolutely love the NES on composite out on an old SDTV. TG and SNES too. Except for Genesis. The composite is too crappy. I have to admit though, SNES looks beautiful in s-video on my SD set. I assume my TG/PCE will too once I get that setup. But the Genesis is in the worst need of it, by far. It's composite output makes the image look worse than NES (aesthetics). RF is ok on a few systems. But I wouldn't use it unless I had no other option (or if the SD set was pretty small. Then it wouldn't matter).

Yeah I hear ya on the Genesis. MY GOD the Composite outputs BLOWS. On the SNES I am running S-video and it looks great. I have my classic consoles hooked up to a NON HD TV though, so that helps a bit I think. On my NES I am actually pretty happy with the composite A/V output (I use a splitter for the audio).

On my Genesis I just got in the mail yesterday an RGB/SCART to Component converter/scaler - and I should be getting the Genesis RGB/SCART cable here any day now. I will be hooking this up to my 50" SDTV. It should look NICE from what I hear. It's awesome that the Genesis naturally outputs RGB though the A/V jack - no modding necessary!

[Zing]

I hooked up the PSone via s-video and tested it out. I know it is technically superior, but I seem to remember testing this last year and deciding that I preferred the look of composite.

I ran through a level of Crash Bandicoot, and while the s-video really brought out the sharpness of the geometry and lack of mip-mapping, the increased detail is worth it.

[zektor]

A chime in regarding RF:

RF looks *great* on older systems (Colecovision, Intv, Atari) when run on an SDTV and used through an amplified video selector. I am really surprised more people do not use one of those....I've been using it for years.

[Peonpiate]

Most people have the sharpness setting on their TV set too high. The ideal setting is usually the minimum.

I have my PlayStation connected via composite on my 32" Wega CRT. I haven't tried it with S-Video in a while. I'll give it another try today and see what I think.


I ran my PS1 in component awhile back on a SD tv...Everything was much clearer as expected, but it really brought out the uglyness of many of its 3d games. Better to keep a PS 1hooked up via composite...Even S-video reveals its ugly texturing imo.

DC/PS2 and above on the other hand look great in component, but thats what the devs had in mind when they made thier games for those systems.

2D games though, look awesome in Component on SD, on any system. Genny takes a slight hit on the games where they used dithering such as Phantasy star, but even then it still looks ok.

[Oldskool]

Oh yeah, Odin Sphere looks BEAUTIFUL on my PS2 using Component cables to the LCD tv.

One thing I noticed though, if I try to play PS1 games on my PS2 using the component cables, half the time the graphics are all messed up on the screen. Not sure what's going on there.

On my normal PS1 (phat) I use the official Sony S-Video cable and it looks fantastic. Symphony of the Night in component looks NICE.

One thing I don't understand, why are people composite and even S-Video modding their old Atari 2600/5200/7800? How much better can a block really look? Never understood that. I do understand not having RF interference on the screen though. My Radio Shack switch box is horrible about that. I am gonna pick up one of those RCA ---> RF pass through adapters. Supposed to clean it up quite a bit I hear.

[Greg2600]

The pass through works terrifically. I have no problem with RF on the old Atari's and Colecovision, although on my new LCD TV it looks about 1000 times better than the old CRT TV did. I don't play any of my classic systems enough to warrant any AV mods. Plus I like to keep everything in original unaltered condition.

[Oldskool]

Yeah I should run down to Radio Shack and pick one of those adapters up, hell what's a few bucks lol

[dreamcaster]

The only console I use RF on are things that I have no choice with e.g my Atari 2600, 7800, NES top loader.

Where possible I use s-video, and where not possible, composite.

[Oldskool]

The problem that I have is I don't feel like hacking up every console that I own. BUT I have been tempted to mod one of my Genesis' for Component out since they natively output RGB it might not be too difficult.. Problem is that the J-Rok converters are sort of expensive.

I did find a Genesis RGB/SCART cable and SCART to Component converter that I will be using here soon, I took the case apart and if I can find a way to put the PCB in the console and run the outputs out the back of it, it would only cost about 45 bucks instead of 90.

[zektor]

I'll have to get a youtube video together one day soon showing my classic consoles hooked up RF with an RF amplifier. I was playing "Beauty and the Beast" today on Intellivision and you could swear it was running a composite mod. But, this is RF. It is very possible to get composite or better results on the old RF if you use the right methods. It looks fantastic!

I have two of these. One Archer and one RadioShack (same maker):

http://books.google.com/books?id=pAAAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=archer+amplified+video+selector&source=bl&ots=75KWjzc0wv&sig=YjWYI2CUgcoVYVaP4clqfOdbrYo&hl=en&ei=6SwsTISkIcP78Abcsvn3DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=archer amplified video selector&f=false

This is a much older model of what I have tho. Mind actually looks a little more up to date and has buttons for selection. Looks like a modern a/v selector but uses coax only. They rock. It takes it's own power and not only acts as a selector for old game systems (I can have I believe six connected at once) but amplifies the signal so it looks great.

[Oldskool]

Hmm sounds interesting. I have never heard of such high praise for RF. You should post up some videos or screenshots STAT!

[Zing]

One thing I noticed though, if I try to play PS1 games on my PS2 using the component cables, half the time the graphics are all messed up on the screen. Not sure what's going on there.

Do you mean the entire image is messed up and unwatchable, or just that you have graphical errors.

If the entire screen is messed up, then it is probably your TV. Almost all PS1 games output at 240p when using the PS2 via component. Quite a few digital TVs do not fully support this mode.

[Arasoi]

Hmm sounds interesting. I have never heard of such high praise for RF. You should post up some videos or screenshots STAT!

Same. I'd be interested to see how it looks as well after your descriptions (as best as videos or photos can show, anyway).

I've been mulling over picking up an Atari and s-video modding it, but I question how well it will look comparatively considering the level of graphics those machines put out. Maybe amplified RF-A/V conversion would be fine for Atari/Inty/etc (my monitors dont support RF)

[Oldskool]

Yeah the PS1 bios will show ok. And sometimes the games will too. But sometimes the cut scenes won't show or will be off. Sometimes it's the title screens, sometimes it's the whole game, depends on the game. It's rather annoying because I like component on the PS2, and hate not being able to play PS1 games on it. This is on a 42" Polaroid 1080p LCD TV. I guess I could try hooking it up via component onto my 50" Toshiba standard definition TV and see what happens.

Does anyone else ever have this problem playing PS1 games on their PS2 using component cables on an HDTV?

[Oldskool]

Same. I'd be interested to see how it looks as well after your descriptions (as best as videos or photos can show, anyway).

I've been mulling over picking up an Atari and s-video modding it, but I question how well it will look comparatively considering the level of graphics those machines put out. Maybe amplified RF-A/V conversion would be fine for Atari/Inty/etc (my monitors dont support RF)

I think it would be fun to do, just to do it. But like you I've wondered if it's really even worth it. To me how much better can a block really look? I mean the graphics are so basic I don't see how it could get much better except for maybe the edges of the blocks/pixels are more clear or something.

Really, as far as my Atari is concerned, I just don't like the interference and wavy lines that the Radio Shack TV/Game Switch outputs. If I could just clean that up I'd be pretty happy with it really.

[Greg2600]

In keeping with zektor's post, I used to have a few of the Radio Shack signal (db) boosters like this thing here. I think a couple 10db and one 20db. I used to use them, or try to, to clear up the OTA TV signal in my college dorm room. But they made hardly any difference.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:EM7iPPmyK3IhMM:http://cdn3.ioffer.com/img/item/987/405/49/o_PFiL34il6R4WmK4.jpg

I felt that all they really did was blur the picture enough to eliminate some of the "snow." I chucked them all several years ago, so I can't test, but like I said, the LCD TV seems to eliminate much of the "snow" interference itself. I think I tried it on NES/SNES back in the day as well, as I rarely had a TV with anything but RF, and it didn't do much. So I'm surprised you're saying they work so well. What db level does yours amplify at?

Similar to replacing your RF wires in the old Atari's, there are a number of things you can do to get a clearer picture. What you can't fix is the loss of color strength/depth, which is simply a result of I guess either RF in general or an old system RF modulator. For instance, in a quick compare, I found the 2600 on my TV with RF has some fuzziness, which again the LCD kind of hides. But the colors are either too bright or not correct. The 5200 is worse.

But like Oldskool is saying, do you go out and mod all your old systems? If you play them a lot, I'd say probably yes, most people that do it will do so for under $50 at most. In any case, getting a brand new RF passthrough adapter is a must.

[Oldskool]

Well I picked up an RCA to RF pass through adapter from Radio Shack when I was at the mall for a few bucks. Have yet to power up the old 2600 to test it out, but I will soon, I am anticipating the difference.

And on another note, I finally got all my stuff in (the RGB/SCART cable and component converter) from Ebay and all hooked up with the X'Eye.

OK, now I've heard that RGB/Component is cystal clear on the Genesis, but DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNN it's almost TOOO freakin' clear. You can see EVERYTHING, and sometimes that's not good on the Genesis haha. I noticed games with dithering almost looked better in some ways in Composite. But games that didn't use a lot of dithering like Sonic was JAWWWSOME!

Keep in mind that this is on a 50" big screen NON LCD TV. And I am sitting 4 feet away haha, WAY too close. I need to get a smaller TV. I bet from 6-10 feet it would look amazing on a 32-36" WEGA.

I have yet to try the component X'Eye on the LCD TV, but I have a feeling that it's going to have issues because my PS2 with component video, while playing PS1 games has video issues on the LCD TV. So I think my TV is not made for low res component video or something.

[Gavica]

Well I picked up an RCA to RF pass through adapter from Radio Shack when I was at the mall for a few bucks. Have yet to power up the old 2600 to test it out, but I will soon, I am anticipating the difference.

And on another note, I finally got all my stuff in (the RGB/SCART cable and component converter) from Ebay and all hooked up with the X'Eye.

OK, now I've heard that RGB/Component is cystal clear on the Genesis, but DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNNNNNN it's almost TOOO freakin' clear. You can see EVERYTHING, and sometimes that's not good on the Genesis haha. I noticed games with dithering almost looked better in some ways in Composite. But games that didn't use a lot of dithering like Sonic was JAWWWSOME!

Keep in mind that this is on a 50" big screen NON LCD TV. And I am sitting 4 feet away haha, WAY too close. I need to get a smaller TV. I bet from 6-10 feet it would look amazing on a 32-36" WEGA.

I have yet to try the component X'Eye on the LCD TV, but I have a feeling that it's going to have issues because my PS2 with component video, while playing PS1 games has video issues on the LCD TV. So I think my TV is not made for low res component video or something.

Which Scart/component converter, etc did you buy for the genesis? I would like to buy also for mine, just not sure which ones are the best

[Oldskool]

This is the cable I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sega-Genesis-2-II-32X-Nomad-Pico-RGB-SCART-cable-NEW-/160446185791?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameAccessories_VideoGameAcc essories_JN&hash=item255b56813f#ht_2577wt_930

And this is the converter that I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCART-RGB-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Transcoder-/220624087499?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335e3869cb#ht_1396wt_930

With that converter, if you are in the US you will have to use a 12V AC Adapter with a positive tip, I just used my universal Recoton adapter.

And then for the component cables, I am using gold Monster Cables.

I'm not sure how that converter is compared to other ones on the market but the picture is amazing to say the least. I honestly don't think it could get any better.

[Zapf]

I was using that transcoder, it was pretty good for the price. I also have a kramer fc-14, one of the best transcoders out there from what I was told, but I didnt see a noticeable improvement (It was also somewhat annoying to use as it required bnc connections and a clean composite sync signal).

I'm using an XRGB2 at the moment, and I like it a lot. Very high quality.

[Zapf]

So I think my TV is not made for low res component video or something.

Some TVs do not accept 240p signals over component, which is what (at least some) ps1 games run. You'll have the same problems with snes/genesis.

[Oldskool]

Yeah that's what I'm afraid of, so I have not even bothered transferring the system into the living room to try. I don't want to waste my time really.

OK, well I got the old Atari dusted off, popped in some Frogger and fired it up with the new RCA ----> RF adapter and WOW, HUGE difference. There is NO radio frequency interference at all. Everything looks good. Of course it's not crystal clear because it's still RF but what a difference. Everyone should go down to Radio Shack and pay the $3 for the adapter. Well worth it.

Before there was a lot of snow, static, fuzziness, interference. Even on the LCD, now it looks pretty damn good. I was using the Radio Shack tv/game switch box before.

Only downside to this adapter is you'll need to get a splitter if you have anything else hooked up via RF/COAX.

Check out my thread about my Atari here to see the screen pics:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146128

[MarioMania]

I don't think the VCS or other systems like the Intellivision or even the Colecovision was even built for Composite Video in mind

[Gavica]

This is the cable I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sega-Genesis-2-II-32X-Nomad-Pico-RGB-SCART-cable-NEW-/160446185791?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameAccessories_VideoGameAcc essories_JN&hash=item255b56813f#ht_2577wt_930

And this is the converter that I used:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCART-RGB-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Transcoder-/220624087499?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335e3869cb#ht_1396wt_930

With that converter, if you are in the US you will have to use a 12V AC Adapter with a positive tip, I just used my universal Recoton adapter.

And then for the component cables, I am using gold Monster Cables.

I'm not sure how that converter is compared to other ones on the market but the picture is amazing to say the least. I honestly don't think it could get any better.

thanks, yes I need for US.

What did you use for sound? you think this should work fine?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250652226516&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[wataru330]

RGB is pixel perfect, PERIOD. folks who go thru the trouble of securing this kind of set up are the same people who would not eat Pheasant Under Glass off of a paper plate. Or drink Brut out of a dixie cup. YMMV, and by all means- don't take just my word for it.

http://nfggames.com/atarilabs/meat/2000/1201_rgbprimer.shtml

http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/caveatrgb.htm

http://tsenzen.blogspot.com/2007/04/sony-pvm-25-pin-21-pin-first-rgb-test.html

[Oldskool]

thanks, yes I need for US.

What did you use for sound? you think this should work fine?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250652226516&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Yes, that should work if you are running a Genesis 2 setup. That pass through adapter will capture the audio so that you can run audio cables from there to your TV/Stereo. The converter box does not input/output audio, I wish it did though, it would make things easier. Now I do not know if the pass through will output S-video however since the Genesis does not natively output S-Video. I would think it would output the composite video though - not that you'd want it for that. Some people use an RGB/SCART switch box also. That doubles as an audio pass through and you can also hook multiple systems up to one RGB converter.

I am using an X'Eye which has your typical Genesis 2 A/V out jack AND your standard composite audio/video jacks on the back. So I am using the rgb cable to converter for video, and the red and white jacks on the back of the X'Eye for the audio.

On the Genesis 1 you can run the audio out of the headphone jack with a headphone ----> rca splitter, same for the CDX or anything else with a headphone jack.

I personally like everything to go out the back of the console and not cables out the front, so I didn't do the headphone jack route (but I also had other options with the X'Eye).

[Gavica]

Yes, that should work if you are running a Genesis 2 setup. That pass through adapter will capture the audio so that you can run audio cables from there to your TV/Stereo. The converter box does not input/output audio, I wish it did though, it would make things easier. Now I do not know if the pass through will output S-video however since the Genesis does not natively output S-Video. I would think it would output the composite video though - not that you'd want it for that. Some people use an RGB/SCART switch box also. That doubles as an audio pass through and you can also hook multiple systems up to one RGB converter.

I am using an X'Eye which has your standard composite audio/video jacks on the back. So I am using the rgb cable to converter for video, and the red and white jacks on the back of the X'Eye for the audio.

On the Genesis 1 you can run the audio out of the headphone jack with a headphone ----> rca splitter, same for the CDX or anything else with a headphone jack.

I personally like everything to go out the back of the console and not cables out the front, so I didn't do the headphone jack route (but I also had other options with the X'Eye).

Just one last question, those scart cables like the one you post that are for european genesis, they should work fine on american genesis right?

what about Super Nintendo Scart, Satun, etc?

[Oldskool]

I purchased my RGB/SCART cable straight from the same link I posted you, and they are in England. It plugged in and worked perfectly on my US system, so no need to worry there, that cable will work on ANY Genesis/Mega Drive/Master System console out there. Not sure on the Master System II and the Genesis 3 however.

Not sure on the Saturn, SNES, etc. I know they have SNES RGB/SCART cables, but I think only the SNES's that output S-Video output RGB as well. I believe that the SNES 2 does not, but don't quote me on that. I am using an S-Video cable on my SNES 1 and to be honest with you, it looks pretty amazing, and is a bit cheaper than going the RGB route, unless you already have the converter for another system and you run everything through a switch box.

The Saturn I am really not too sure. I have not looked into it. But apparently it outputs RGB as well so I would assume that if you could find the cable for it, it will work.

EDIT:

Says this will work on any US/PAL/JAPANESE SNES console, might need to be verified as I've heard that they don't work on some SNES's, either that or the people had a bad cable or something:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPER-NINTENDO-SNES-FULL-RGB-SCART-LEAD-CABLE-BRAND-NEW-/170508775828?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item27b31d7194#ht_518wt_930

Official Super Famicom RGB/SCART Cable:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Famicom-Original-Nintendo-RGB-Cable-import-jp-NEW-/120592253545?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item1c13dbc269#ht_1031wt_704

SATURN Rgb/Scart cable:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RGB-SCART-VIDEO-AUDIO-CABLE-Sega-Saturn-/270573997408?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item3eff778d60#ht_2609wt_1002

Doesn't state that it will work on a USA console, but I'm sure it will.

[Gavica]

THANKS

what is this deal of scart not working on some tvs due to not handle 240p? would hate to spend 80 bucks for this and then it wont work on my lcd

[Oldskool]

I've heard some people with issues on it. And I think I might be one of them, I have yet to try mine on an LCD TV yet. But I think a good test is to hook up your PS2 via Component cables, and play a few PS1 games like that. If it handles the signals ok I think it will be ok. On my LCD for some reason when I play a PS1 game on the PS2 with the component cables, it has major video issues.

So if your PS2 is set up like that it might be a good test for you. Otherwise I am not sure how to tell if your TV can handle it or not. I have heard that most can, and I am still tempted to try mine to see what happens. I might just have some sort of issue with the PS2 and/or the PS1 game and not the TV.

[Zing]

Ico is a PS2 game that runs at 240p, so you can use it to test as well.

[Oldskool]

Is anyone running their classic consoles through an RGB/SCART to HDMI converter or VGA box?

I have seriously been thinking of getting a VGA box for my Dreamcast. It's too bad the official box is so expensive though, I knew I should have picked one up when they were on the clearance rack a decade ago. I just didn't see the need at the time to hook the Dreamcast up to my 17" computer monitor. But now that many LCD TV's (including my own) have a VGA input on the back, I wish I had.

Anyone try the cheap $19.99 Chinese knock-off VGA box for the Dreamcast? Quality and picture seem pretty good?

[Gavica]

Is anyone running their classic consoles through an RGB/SCART to HDMI converter or VGA box?

I have seriously been thinking of getting a VGA box for my Dreamcast. It's too bad the official box is so expensive though, I knew I should have picked one up when they were on the clearance rack a decade ago. I just didn't see the need at the time to hook the Dreamcast up to my 17" computer monitor. But now that many LCD TV's (including my own) have a VGA input on the back, I wish I had.

Anyone try the cheap $19.99 Chinese knock-off VGA box for the Dreamcast? Quality and picture seem pretty good?

do you think the hdmi converter might give better quality then the component one? or they should be about the same?

Also, will it make any difference if I plug the component out from the converter to my receiver (my receiver channels everything hooked up to it to my TV via 1 hdmi cable) or I should just hook it up straight to the tv.

[Zapf]

do you think the hdmi converter might give better quality then the component one? or they should be about the same?


Its not really going to give any real quality improvement unless your component input on your tv or receiver is terrible or something. RGB->YUV/YPbPr transcoding is a very simple process, and if you already having something doing the analog to digital conversion you don't need a second thing doing that.

Direct to the TV helps if you are playing games that require very strict timing on things (shmups or fighting games on a high level - the more things in between the console and it being displayed, the more delay from processing that signal), but if you've been ok so far with your current setup, I wouldn't complicate the backside of your entertainment center =)

[Zapf]

You can also test 240p support with your wii - some emulators will output 240p, as well as virtual console titles like ones from the NES (I don't remember if you need to test with your wii output set to progressive scan or not - try both!)

[Oldskool]

Hmm.. so far all of my Wii Virtual Console games have worked fine, with component video and progressive scan. Now I am really tempted to hook up the Genesis and component converter to the LCD to see just what happens.

[erehwon]

What is the better choice for the Saturn: composite or s-video? I av cable for my saturn and one for a saturn I'm planning on selling. I'm thinking about the s-video for me, but I'm feeling cheap at the moment. I could probably get two composite cables for the price of s-video. I'm wondering if composite is enough for that system. I doubt there is a component or vga cable for that system.

[Oldskool]

I don't think there are component or VGA for the Saturn, but there is RGB. I'd keep the S-Video cable for the Saturn, should provide a MUCH better picture over the composite cable.

Or if you don't want it sell it to me .. :)

[Zing]

I think you want s-video for anything more recent than a NES.

[Oldskool]

Really a problem with all this is that, with most TV's that a majority of us are gaming on we have two options, RF and Composite - so naturally Composite always wins. Hell I gamed on a TV for YEARS with only an RF connection on the back.

You have to remember, back in the good old days when I was playing NES and Genesis in my bedroom on my 19" TV (which was big), RF was it! So when composite connections were more common on TV's it was like "WOW LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE over RF!" :rocker: and many of us never looked back.

Now decades later were are going :? "Whoa, there's other stuff on the back of this TV" and realizing that hey composite is no good anymore. :sob:

So naturally, all of us classic gamers that grew up on the old stuff are like "HELL YEAH MAD TECHNOLOGY YO', HDMI COMPONENT RGB STUFFS!!" :rocker::rocker: Because it's like a whole new world for us to explore.

Younger gamers might be thinking.. :? "WTF is up with these old gamers still using RF and Composite??" Didn't they know they could hook up COMPONENT RGB to that Genesis? SHEESH. Amateurs. LOL

I hope you liked my story.

[Zing]

I remember when you had to go out of your way to buy a TV that had anything but RF.

In 1990, I specifically bought a 20" TV which had s-video inputs to use with my laserdisc player. Strangely, I never thought to connect my SNES to it.

I did, however, play around with using my Apple IIc monitor for my SNES. It had composite input only, but it had much higher resolution than my TV.

[LocalH]

I don't think the VCS or other systems like the Intellivision or even the Colecovision was even built for Composite Video in mind
On the contrary, the VCS video chip outputs separated chroma and luma (aka S-Video), the Intellivision video chip outputs composite video, and the Colecovision video chip outputs component video.

[Gavica]

oldskool, let us if you plug your genny to your lcd and how it looks

[Ponyponypony]

I use RF where possible. I love RF on the Sega Genesis.

hell, I used RF on playstation saturn and dreamcast for like 2 years. Everyone makes fun of RF. I think it's pretty damned fine lol.


I like it better daisy-chaining seven systems via RF modulators more than I do buying a video switcher and having to figure out which system is on which number. Our current setup is impossible to navigate without the TV, receiver, and VCR (Yes, I still have one. VHS tapes make me nostalgic) remotes.

Channel 3 FTW.

[Zapf]

You could just label your switcher...

[Oldskool]

oldskool, let us if you plug your genny to your lcd and how it looks

Sure I'll let ya know. If the picture isn't garbage like on my PS2 playing PS1 games with component video I'll take some screenshots.

If you look up phonedork on Youtube, he's got some videos of his Genesis running component video on his LCD TV and it looks stunning, well as stunning as the low resolution Youtube allows anyways.

Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOhntr-4xx0

Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZakQhQbjbRU

Be sure to watch it in 480p.

[Oldskool]

I like it better daisy-chaining seven systems via RF modulators more than I do buying a video switcher and having to figure out which system is on which number. Our current setup is impossible to navigate without the TV, receiver, and VCR (Yes, I still have one. VHS tapes make me nostalgic) remotes.

Channel 3 FTW.

The problem I've noticed with daisy chaining RF connections though is that the further out the connection the worse the quality. It's like the signal is degraded each time it goes through an RF box.

[Gavica]

what game is that with the shooting humanoid bird?

[izarate]

I haven't seen the video but I guess it's Alien Soldier :)

[Gavica]

never seen it before, looks really cool, was it released in the us?

[Zing]

Sure I'll let ya know. If the picture isn't garbage like on my PS2 playing PS1 games with component video I'll take some screenshots.

I see comments like this all the time but it is confusing to me since my PS1 games on my 50" rear projection looked awesome on my PS2 via component. It looked the same as s-video or component on my WEGA CRT, minus the convergence and geometry errors. Maybe it just looks like garbage on 1080p LCDs due to scaling or something. My TV is a 720p rear projection LCD.

[Oldskool]

never seen it before, looks really cool, was it released in the us?

Yup, that's Alien Soldier and no it was not released in the US. Which is a shame cause it's one kick ass game.

He's running his off a NeoMyth ROM cartridge.

You can play the import on your US console but it's a $100+ dollar game, and it's region locked so you have to have a region switch or a game genie.

[Oldskool]

I see comments like this all the time but it is confusing to me since my PS1 games on my 50" rear projection looked awesome on my PS2 via component. It looked the same as s-video or component on my WEGA CRT, minus the convergence and geometry errors. Maybe it just looks like garbage on 1080p LCDs due to scaling or something. My TV is a 720p rear projection LCD.

I think you misunderstand me. On my 50" projection TV it's fine, on the LCD screen it scrambles the image or something. I think the rear projection and CRT TV's can handle the resolution properly, but on some LCD TV's it can't handle the low res progressive scan image.

I don't mean it's like a playable game with graphical artifacts on the LCD. What I mean is that the game will load, and some screens will show perfect, but other screens/movie sequences, etc will look all scrambled and messed up, but the audio will work fine.

[Leo_A]

Yup, that's Alien Soldier and no it was not released in the US. Which is a shame cause it's one kick ass game.

He's running his off a NeoMyth ROM cartridge.

You can play the import on your US console but it's a $100+ dollar game, and it's region locked so you have to have a region switch or a game genie.

It's worth noting that it's available on the Virtual Console in North America.

[Ponyponypony]

The problem I've noticed with daisy chaining RF connections though is that the further out the connection the worse the quality. It's like the signal is degraded each time it goes through an RF box.

It generally does. It's one of the things they taught me in the Army. The easiest way to minimize it is to make sure the connectors are clean and the other systems in front of it are unplugged (most electronics carry a 5v stand-by charge).

[Oldskool]

OK everyone the verdict is in. My 42" Polaroid 1080p LCD TV doesn't like low res component video. I finally got around to hooking up my X'Eye w/component to the LCD TV to see if it would show a good picture and it does not. Just lots of pretty colors.

So if you want to run any classic consoles (including a PS2 playing PS1 games) via component, it's not gonna work on a 42" Polaroid LCD.

Works just fine on my 50" projection TV in the game room, and I'm sure it would work just fine on a Wega TV or another similar CRT, or other LCD/Plasma HD TVs that would support low res component. Note: This TV seems to play Wii Virtual Console games just fine, so I don't think that's a good way to test to see if your TV is compatible or not. I recommend trying a PS2 with component cables, and playing some PS1 games to find out.

X'Eye is hooked up via a Genesis 2 RGB/SCART cable to an RGB/SCART to Component converter.

Not sure with another converter if it would work better but I don't think so. It's the TV. When I turn it on it says it's 480i when I know better than that. Not to mention that playing PS1 games on the PS2 via component cables is all messed up as well (not quite the same though).

At first I had just a black screen. Then I tried the switch on the SCART/RGB cable (does anyone know what that does), and got this:

http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx188/mkennedy999/lowrescomponentonlcd.jpg

[Greg2600]

Did you try plugging the console into a separate outlet from the TV?

[Oldskool]

Did you try plugging the console into a separate outlet from the TV?

What do you mean? Like the component 2 hookup instead of component 1? Or are you talking about the AC Adapter?

[Gavica]

Ok so question, if I test my PS2 with component playing PS1 games on my LCD and it works fine, then I should have no problems playing the old consoles on component as well? or not necesarilly?