When did it become okay to leave systems plugged in?

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

I copied section from the Wikipedia entry "Standby Power." It kind of puts some of this discussion into perspective.

The wasted standby power (vampire energy loss) of individual household electronic devices is typically very small, but the sum of all such devices within the household becomes significant. Standby power makes up a portion of homes' miscellaneous electric load, which also includes small appliances, security systems, and other small power draws.

Standby power can be as high as 10 to 15 watts per device, and occasionally more.[1] A 2005 study estimates the number of standby appliances in the EU at 3.7 billion.[2] Although the power needed for functions like displays, indicators, and remote control functions is relatively small, the fact that the devices are continuously plugged in, and the number of such devices in the average household means that the energy usage can reach up to 22 percent of all appliance consumption, and around 10 percent of total residential consumption.[3][4]

Alan Meier, a staff scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL) in Berkeley, noted that many household appliances are never fully switched off, but spend most of the time in a standby mode. His 1998 study estimated that standby power consumption accounted for approximately 5% of total residential electricity consumption in America, “adding up to more than $3 billion in annual energy costs”. According to America's Department of Energy, national residential electricity consumption in 2004 was 1.29 billion megawatt hours (MWh)—5% of which is 64m MWh. The wasted energy, in other words, is equivalent to the output of 18 typical power stations. His 2000 study showed that standby power accounted for around 10% of household power-consumption.

The British Government's 2006 Energy Review found that standby modes on electronic devices account for 8% of all British domestic power consumption.[5] A similar study in France in 2000 found that standby power accounted for 7% of total residential consumption.[6] Further studies have since come to similar conclusions in other developed countries, including the Netherlands, Australia and Japan. Some estimates put the proportion of consumption due to standby power as high as 13%.

From the US department of Energy:

"Many appliances continue to draw a small amount of power when they are switched off. These "phantom" loads occur in most appliances that use electricity, such as VCRs, televisions, stereos, computers, and kitchen appliances. This can be avoided by unplugging the appliance or using a power strip and using the switch on the power strip to cut all power to the appliance."[7]

[Arkhan]

and in the end this is outweighed by the fact that the GOV'MINT has all their shit on 24/7 sucking up power out the wazoooooo!


while some homer simpson/gomer pyle bastards sit there and eat pudding and do nothing but stare at it.

[Rob2600]

and in the end this is outweighed by the fact that the GOV'MINT has all their shit on 24/7 sucking up power out the wazoooooo!

That doesn't make sense. If you conserve power, it isn't outweighed by anything. Just because some people are irresponsible and leave their things turned on 24 hours a day, that doesn't mean we should all do that.

Stop making excuses and start conserving. Or do you like slowly destroying your own surroundings and eventually living in filth?

[Icarus Moonsight]

I forgot to turn off my power strip once, and then Al Gore took a shit in my yard. It was massive, the neighbor kids thought it was a bounce-house... Poor kids. Only one of them died from hookworms, got the others cattle wormer shots in time. As for me, lesson learned. Took 9 hours with the garden hose to dissolve it... Birds enjoyed the corn.

[BetaWolf47]

I used to leave stuff plugged in when I was younger. Nowadays, I unplug everything, other than stuff that benefits from being left plugged in.

If you want to be safe, just get something like this. (http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=914023&CatId=20) I don't see a reason not to have something like that, if you're wanting to keep multiple systems plugged in.

[ZombieK]

Well yesterday by the time I got home my power reset.
So I decided to say screw it this morning and turn off the power strip.
My Consoles and Computer/Rest of Set Up are on so much I would think its a good idea to let them be totally off once in a while.

[Rob2600]

Well yesterday by the time I got home my power reset.
So I decided to say screw it this morning and turn off the power strip.
My Consoles and Computer/Rest of Set Up are on so much I would think its a good idea to let them be totally off once in a while.

Excellent. Your equipment will last longer, you'll use fewer resources, and you'll save money every month. It just makes sense all around.



I forgot to turn off my power strip once, and then Al Gore took a shit in my yard.

I know you're just being silly, but still, I don't understand making fun of people who go out of their way to protect your surroundings.

[Robocop2]

I enjoy using up all teh electricities just like Our Holy Father Albert (Gore) he's such an excellent example of how to conserve resources ;)

[Zing]

I think it depends on the type of power supply. If the system has a "switching" power supply, then it will stay cool to the touch and not draw nearly as much power.

[Auto-Fox]

I have a simple solution for this... I just have a power strip. Actually, several power strips, plugged into one-another.
Just for the record, I don't reccommend plugging more than three power strips into one.
:D
Anyway, this way, I have everything on one switch. Stereo setup, video game consoles, TV, etc.
Click, it's all off when I'm not using it.
Power bill goes way down, as a result.

[Gameguy]

I know you're just being silly, but still, I don't understand making fun of people who go out of their way to protect your surroundings.
I'm pretty sure people like making fun of people who think they're making a difference when they're really not, or people who just annoy others with "holier than thou" comments.

Everyone loves Al Gore since he's doing so much to help the environment. Only he uses about 20 times the amount of electricity than the average American household uses. I guess the environment isn't really in that bad shape, or he'd be using less.

The only reason to use less electricity is to save on your energy bill, and possibly to prevent wear and tear to your electronics. I don't leave consoles plugged in but that's because I don't have space to set them up.

[Rob2600]

I'm pretty sure people like making fun of people who think they're making a difference when they're really not, or people who just annoy others with "holier than thou" comments.

I didn't mean Al Gore specifically. I meant, how come when someone suggests doing something to help keep our surroundings healthy and clean, there are people who make fun of that person and get all defensive and sarcastic? Why is protecting our air, water, and land viewed as a bad thing?


The only reason to use less electricity is to save on your energy bill

No, the reason to use less electricity is so that less coal has to be burned...and the less coal that's burned, the less exhaust and pollution gets released into our air and water. Everything is connected. Saving money is a bonus.

But, even if saving money were the only reason to use less electricity, isn't that still a big enough reason to do it? Who doesn't want to save money, especially when it only involves something as simple as flipping a switch?

[JSoup]

You know, I've never put a tremendous amount of thought into how I have me electronics set up, but I guess it makes sense to cut all power to them when I'm not using them. Maybe this is why my older systems have all broken down, compared to my friends systems who haven't taken them out of storage in years and years.

[Gameguy]

I didn't mean Al Gore specifically. I meant, how come when someone suggests doing something to help keep our surroundings healthy and clean, there are people who make fun of that person and get all defensive and sarcastic? Why is protecting our air, water, and land viewed as a bad thing?

No, the reason to use less electricity is so that less coal has to be burned...and the less coal that's burned, the less exhaust and pollution gets released into our air and water. Everything is connected. Saving money is a bonus.
It's because using very slightly less electricity doesn't keep your surroundings as healthy and clean like you think it does. If you really wanted to protect the environment, you should be using alternative sources of electricity. Why aren't you using solar panels? You should be saving up for those before buying any luxuries, if you care about the environment as much as you say you do.

Just curious, do you use an air conditioner?


But, even if saving money were the only reason to use less electricity, isn't that still a big enough reason to do it? Who doesn't want to save money, especially when it only involves something as simple as flipping a switch?
How much would it really save? I know with energy saving appliances they use less electricity, only they won't last anywhere near as long as older appliances and they're more likely to break down. You'll end up having to get them repaired for hundreds of dollars and replace them years sooner which would cost hundreds or thousands of dollars, so that wouldn't be saving much money at all.

I suppose it would save a bit of money to turn off surge protectors when not using systems, but how much did all those surge protectors cost? Good ones cost over $60 each, how much are you saving if you're buying several of them? I would still get surge protectors for convenience and to protect the equipment, but I won't be saving any money by doing that.

[Rob2600]

using very slightly less electricity doesn't keep your surroundings as healthy and clean like you think it does. If you really wanted to protect the environment, you should be using alternative sources of electricity. Why aren't you using solar panels? You should be saving up for those before buying any luxuries, if you care about the environment as much as you say you do.

Just curious, do you use an air conditioner?

Yes, I use an air conditioner, but only when the temperature outside goes above 90 degrees F. Trust me, I'm extremely careful with my energy usage. 85% of the time, the *only* things that are plugged in and running are my refrigerator, stove, and cable box/DVR.

I rarely buy any luxuries. The only thing I buy on a regular basis is simple, healthy food. My clothing, gadgets, and equipment usually last me many years. I don't own a car and rely mainly on walking and public transportation. I buy recycled toilet paper and bring a reusable cloth bag with me whenever I buy groceries. I dry my clothes on a clothesline. I refill my water bottle instead of buying new ones. I turn off my power strips when I leave the apartment, go to sleep, or am not using them. These are extremely simple things anyone can do, and I'd feel stupid *not* doing them. I try as best I can to be a good steward of our land and to live simply, healthfully, and responsibly.

No, I don't own solar panels. I rent an apartment, so I'm not at liberty to install them. Even if I owned a house, they're too cost prohibitive right now to buy.

However, that doesn't mean I should just shrug my shoulders and give up completely. According to your philosophy, if I can't save 100% electricity, then I shouldn't bother trying to save 15% either. That's stupid. That's like saying, "If I can't save 100% of my paycheck, then I shouldn't bother saving any of it."

Take Ed Begley Jr.'s advice: not everyone can afford to buy solar panels or an electric car, but do what you can. If you can eliminate standby power, you'll reduce your power consumption and electric bill up to 15%. Imagine if everyone in the U.S. did that? I bet we'd be able to shut down some coal power plants and reduce pollution.

But it's only 15%, so why bother, right?


I know with energy saving appliances they use less electricity, only they won't last anywhere near as long as older appliances and they're more likely to break down.

Is this a proven fact or are you just making stuff up out of thin air? Can you provide a source that proves energy-efficient appliances break down more quickly and frequently than power hogs?


I suppose it would save a bit of money to turn off surge protectors when not using systems, but how much did all those surge protectors cost? Good ones cost over $60 each

A $60 power strip will last many years. You'll recoup that cost after one year by leaving it off most of the time. And I doubt you need to spend $60 on a power strip for most of your gadgets. A $20 strip is fine in many situations.

Besides, spending a little money on a power strip in order to conserve energy seems like a good idea to me...unless you want those coal plants to keep filling your family's air with poison.


That's all I have to add to this thread. Some people understand the importance of conserving resources and living simply...others don't. Oh well.

[Eduardo]

the first time i used the NES i left it plugged in, when I came back the brick was hot. I unpllug it ever since. Why make the brick hot when you can not make it hot. the only console that benefits from being plugged in is the dreamcast because of the dates. I even unplug my directv box.
I was looking for a power strip that solved the brick size problem and I came accross this megatron looking thing:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411G0MKENQL._SS500_.jpg

pretty cool

[JSoup]

Take Ed Begley Jr.'s advice: not everyone can afford to buy solar panels or an electric car, but do what you can. If you can eliminate standby power, you'll reduce your power consumption and electric bill up to 15%. Imagine if everyone in the U.S. did that? I bet we'd be able to shut down some coal power plants and reduce pollution.

But it's only 15%, so why bother, right?


I would imagine that if everyone in America was saving 15%, energy prices would go up to compensate. For many people, the trade off isn't worth the effort.

[Ro-J]

Years ago there was quite a bit of radio-rage when the local energy company raised their rates in, what was later discovered to be, response to too many people conserving energy. Apparently with people conserving more and using less energy their stock prices were falling and so they had to raise their rates in order to compensate and keep their stocks high. Unfortunately I can't find anything on the internets to verify this so it might just have been something cooked up by local radio personalities trying to get people to vote a certain way. It happens quite a bit around here. Still, interesting to think about happening.

[Rob2600]

I would imagine that if everyone in America was saving 15%, energy prices would go up to compensate. For many people, the trade off isn't worth the effort.

Let's pretend that's true... does that mean we should continue to consume our resources and destroy our surroundings in order to save a few cents? Isn't there at least one thing in this world that's more important than money?

But the fact is, at this moment in time, using less power will save you money. So for right now, you can conserve energy *and* save money. It's the best of both worlds, but for reasons unknown, some people are vehemently against that.

[jb143]

but for reasons unknown, some people are vehemently against that.

The switch is behind the entertainment center. I thought we established that a few pages back.

[JSoup]

Let's pretend that's true... does that mean we should continue to consume our resources and destroy our surroundings in order to save a few cents? Isn't there at least one thing in this world that's more important than money?

Nope. Welcome to America.

[Rob2600]

The switch is behind the entertainment center. I thought we established that a few pages back.

Use a three-prong extension cord and move your power strip to a more convenient spot. Simple problem, simple solution.



Isn't there at least one thing in this world that's more important than money?

Nope. Welcome to America.

:(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH0U2AsyoWU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iwHO7WONk0

[SuperGamecube64]

I'm only 19, and the oldest system I have is an NES(it used to belong to ym uncle, and was THE first sytem I played...as in, the exact same one. Meant a lot when he gave it to me, even if that sounds kinda dumb.). I leave it plugged in if I'm gonig to be playing it for a few days or anything. I didn't know the odler systems were even supposed to be unplugged. My dad has soken of his atari and such, but never said anything like that.

as ane earlier poster said(earleir as in apge 1), i tend to se up surge protectors and then turn them into "giant daisy chained surge protector fire death traps in the name of convience".

[JSoup]

Use a three-prong extension cord and move your power strip to a more convenient spot. Simple problem, simple solution.



:(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH0U2AsyoWU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iwHO7WONk0

I remember the first one. I was 3 and a half. I asked my grandfather why the indian man was crying. He replied "Because he wants money."

[Gameguy]

Yes, I use an air conditioner, but only when the temperature outside goes above 90 degrees F. Trust me, I'm extremely careful with my energy usage. 85% of the time, the *only* things that are plugged in and running are my refrigerator, stove, and cable box/DVR.

I rarely buy any luxuries. The only thing I buy on a regular basis is simple, healthy food. My clothing, gadgets, and equipment usually last me many years. I don't own a car and rely mainly on walking and public transportation. I buy recycled toilet paper and bring a reusable cloth bag with me whenever I buy groceries. I dry my clothes on a clothesline. I refill my water bottle instead of buying new ones. I turn off my power strips when I leave the apartment, go to sleep, or am not using them. These are extremely simple things anyone can do, and I'd feel stupid *not* doing them. I try as best I can to be a good steward of our land and to live simply, healthfully, and responsibly.

No, I don't own solar panels. I rent an apartment, so I'm not at liberty to install them. Even if I owned a house, they're too cost prohibitive right now to buy.

However, that doesn't mean I should just shrug my shoulders and give up completely. According to your philosophy, if I can't save 100% electricity, then I shouldn't bother trying to save 15% either. That's stupid. That's like saying, "If I can't save 100% of my paycheck, then I shouldn't bother saving any of it."

Take Ed Begley Jr.'s advice: not everyone can afford to buy solar panels or an electric car, but do what you can. If you can eliminate standby power, you'll reduce your power consumption and electric bill up to 15%. Imagine if everyone in the U.S. did that? I bet we'd be able to shut down some coal power plants and reduce pollution.

But it's only 15%, so why bother, right?



Is this a proven fact or are you just making stuff up out of thin air? Can you provide a source that proves energy-efficient appliances break down more quickly and frequently than power hogs?



A $60 power strip will last many years. You'll recoup that cost after one year by leaving it off most of the time. And I doubt you need to spend $60 on a power strip for most of your gadgets. A $20 strip is fine in many situations.

Besides, spending a little money on a power strip in order to conserve energy seems like a good idea to me...unless you want those coal plants to keep filling your family's air with poison.


That's all I have to add to this thread. Some people understand the importance of conserving resources and living simply...others don't. Oh well.
I don't have any air conditioning at all, so I guess you're using just a bit more than me. I consider TV, computers, DVDs, and video games to be luxuries. If you're using them regularly you're using electricity unnecessarily. We have to bring bags with when buying groceries, plastic bags are $0.05 each thanks to a new bylaw and I don't want to buy them. I always kept spare bags to reuse or line the kitchen garbage with, I guess somehow paying more for bags benefits the environment for some reason.

Solar panels too cost prohibitive? That shouldn't matter if you really care about the environment. You can't really install any yourself since you're in an appartment, but try to convince the owner to install them for his building. Probably won't work though.

As for the appliances, I've talked with over a dozen repairmen and appliance salesmen over the years who said this to me. I was surprised about the salesmen saying that stuff, they're trying to sell this stuff yet mention how it won't last as long as the older appliances. Most recently that I can remember was when we got a new water heater, the older ones were designed to rest on a stand slightly above the ground while the new ones are designed to be installed directly flush on the ground. The installer told me that the new ones don't get as much air flow compared to the older models and won't last as long.

As for coal plants, they should be shut down and replaced with nuclear or other types of plants as it would be cleaner. Until the coal plants are shut down it won't make a difference.

I personally try to use less electricity to save money, that's it. You can choose to worry about the environment but it won't make a difference, I don't see the need to worry about things that are out of my control.




I actually looked up energy consumption rates worldwide so I can show some comparisons. Some of the figures are a couple years old so it's really just an approximation.

The approximate amount of energy used worldwide is 15 terawatts per year. The average amount of electricity used in the US is 938 kilowatts per month per household, that's 11256 kilowatts per year, or 0.000011256 terawatts per year. If you'll be saving 15% of your electricity usage, that's approximately 0.0000016884 terawatts per year.

You'll be helping to save a whopping 0.00000011256% of total energy used worldwide, per year. Much less than one/one-millionth of a percent of total consumption. Far from having any impact on global warming. Do you really think by saving so little global warming would stop or reverse? The worldwide population is still increasing, and all of those additional people will use far more electricity than you'll be saving. Energy consumption increases every year. People like to screw so I guess it can't be helped.

[Eduardo]

I remember the first one. I was 3 and a half. I asked my grandfather why the indian man was crying. He replied "Because he wants money."

LOL I truly LOL.

[Rob2600]

Solar panels too cost prohibitive? That shouldn't matter if you really care about the environment. etc. etc. etc.

Nice try, but I'm not taking the bait.

Some people go to great lengths to justify their bad habits. Oh well. And it's not *the* environment, it's *our* environment.

[Arkhan]

That doesn't make sense. If you conserve power, it isn't outweighed by anything. Just because some people are irresponsible and leave their things turned on 24 hours a day, that doesn't mean we should all do that.

This does makes sense. More so if you get off your saintly high horse. Unless you go to sleep at night with your entire house's power turned off and use a wind-up or battery powered alarm clock, thus using 0 power while you're asleep, then you need to shut your damn mouth. I don't think you're fooling anyone with your "OH YOURE ALL POWER WASTING SINNERS" horse shit.

If I save water and only flush the toilet once a week, and my neighbor flushes like 30 times a day, leaves faucets running, and sprinklers and shit all day 24/7/365, then my conservation of water is definitely outweighed here.

If I turn all my lights off, and the neighbor throws up flood lights, and never turns anything off, totally outweighed again. See how this works?

Good intentions don't immediately mean good results.



Stop making excuses and start conserving. Or do you like slowly destroying your own surroundings and eventually living in filth?
I didn't make any excuses. I'm not climbing over all the shit to flick a switch off just to make some putz on a forum who's donned the "Power Saver" badge happy.

I compared electric bills one time. Power consumption isn't too different when you flick it all off. It's not worth the effort. The earth is not in danger...

and besides!

I love destroying my surroundings. I leave all my faucets running constantly. I cut down trees just to cut them down. Every outlet in my house is populated, and nothing gets shut off. I've got massive security/flood lights surrounding my house so noone can come bug me. I have a perpetual motion device constantly activating my toaster even. I say we torch this entire planet! Drain it down to a big floating wasteland! Wanna know why?
.
.
.
.
.
because then, high and mighty pole smokers like you wouldn't be around to act like they're better than everyone else about something as stupid as turning off some power strips for x amount of hours.

you aren't some huge energy saving god among men. Quit being a bigot. Get bent.

or, prove me wrong. Show me how hardXcore you are at saving teh energies. Lets see a film of you with your whole house's power off when you're going to bed , or leaving, since you clearly don't need to waste all that power if you're not using it, AMIRITE?


and when you're done, come flick my power strips off. I'm too lazy.


Oh, and its THE environment. We made it "our" environment by force, and made a mess of it. If humans didn't exist, THE environment would be better off. ;)

bbl, dispelling harmful pollutants into the atmosphere.

[Icarus Moonsight]

A guy gets a little goofy, and this is what happens?

This time, when Al comes over, it'll be your guys' fault. Not mine! :p

[Zing]

does that mean we should continue to consume our resources and destroy our surroundings in order to save a few cents?

Millions of people do this every day by driving to Walmart.

It seems odd to me to be discussing conservation of the planet when our hobby is 100% luxury and specifically involves relatively high electricity usage via our televisions and stereos, and also involves unimaginable amounts of fossil fuel usage to produce and ship the consoles and games.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

The oil, coal, and natural gas industries run a large portion of our lives in America. They have successfully fought major energy conservation initiatives, and deeply misinformed a large portion of the American public.

Exxon, the Koch Foundation, etc, all have more power over America than Al Gore ever will. Is it in America's interest to do the bidding of these companies? They only have short term profits in mind, not the continuation of life on earth.

[BetaWolf47]

It seems odd to me to be discussing conservation of the planet when our hobby is 100% luxury and specifically involves relatively high electricity usage via our televisions and stereos, and also involves unimaginable amounts of fossil fuel usage to produce and ship the consoles and games.
Maybe so, but we also buy and sell vast amounts of used games. That in itself is good for the environment. Instead of buying up plastic-encased games that are sealed with plastic, we're circulating what's already out there. It's the equivalent to using the same water bottle over and over again.

Though I don't like his "holier than thou" attitude on this, I agree with a lot of what Rob2600 is saying. I myself leave most of my stuff unplugged. None of my consoles except my Wii are plugged in back at my parents house. Most of my stuff is plugged into a surge protector with the master switch turned off at my apartment.

Go ahead and leave your own stuff plugged in though. I won't lose any sleep over it. What does bother me, is people who leave stuff turned on for no reason. My roommate literally never turns off the TV. He'll leave for class at 8:00 AM and come back to the apartment at 6:30 PM and it'll be on every hour he's not there to watch it. Same with people leaving their computer speakers on. There's just no reason.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

because then, high and mighty pole smokers like you wouldn't be around to act like they're better than everyone else about something as stupid as turning off some power strips for x amount of hours.

you aren't some huge energy saving god among men. Quit being a bigot. Get bent.



Well, some studies have shown that standby power consumes 5% to 10% of the nation's energy. If those numbers are true, then people who DO unplug things have a valid arguement for doing so.

[BetaWolf47]

It seems odd to me to be discussing conservation of the planet when our hobby is 100% luxury and specifically involves relatively high electricity usage via our televisions and stereos, and also involves unimaginable amounts of fossil fuel usage to produce and ship the consoles and games.
Maybe so, but we also buy and sell vast amounts of used games. That in itself is good for the environment. Instead of buying up plastic-encased games that are sealed with plastic, we're circulating what's already out there. It's the equivalent to using the same water bottle over and over again.

Though I don't like his "holier than thou" attitude on this, I agree with a lot of what Rob2600 is saying. I myself leave most of my stuff unplugged. None of my consoles except my Wii are plugged in back at my parents house. Most of my stuff is plugged into a surge protector with the master switch turned off at my apartment.

Go ahead and leave your own stuff plugged in though. I won't lose any sleep over it. What does bother me, is people who leave stuff turned on for no reason. My roommate literally never turns off the TV. He'll leave for class at 8:00 AM and come back to the apartment at 6:30 PM and it'll be on every hour he's not there to watch it. Same with people leaving their computer speakers on. There's just no reason.

[BetaWolf47]

It seems odd to me to be discussing conservation of the planet when our hobby is 100% luxury and specifically involves relatively high electricity usage via our televisions and stereos, and also involves unimaginable amounts of fossil fuel usage to produce and ship the consoles and games.
Maybe so, but we also buy and sell vast amounts of used games. That in itself is good for the environment. Instead of buying up plastic-encased games that are sealed with plastic, we're circulating what's already out there. It's the equivalent to using the same water bottle over and over again.

Though I don't like his "holier than thou" attitude on this, I agree with a lot of what Rob2600 is saying. I myself leave most of my stuff unplugged. None of my consoles except my Wii are plugged in back at my parents house. Most of my stuff is plugged into a surge protector with the master switch turned off at my apartment.

Go ahead and leave your own stuff plugged in though. I won't lose any sleep over it. What does bother me, is people who leave stuff turned on for no reason. My roommate literally never turns off the TV. He'll leave for class at 8:00 AM and come back to the apartment at 6:30 PM and it'll be on every hour he's not there to watch it. Same with people leaving their computer speakers on. There's just no reason.

[BetaWolf47]

It seems odd to me to be discussing conservation of the planet when our hobby is 100% luxury and specifically involves relatively high electricity usage via our televisions and stereos, and also involves unimaginable amounts of fossil fuel usage to produce and ship the consoles and games.
Maybe so, but we also buy and sell vast amounts of used games. That in itself is good for the environment. Instead of buying up plastic-encased games that are sealed with plastic, we're circulating what's already out there. It's the equivalent to using the same water bottle over and over again.

Though I don't like his "holier than thou" attitude on this, I agree with a lot of what Rob2600 is saying. I myself leave most of my stuff unplugged. None of my consoles except my Wii are plugged in back at my parents house. Most of my stuff is plugged into a surge protector with the master switch turned off at my apartment.

Go ahead and leave your own stuff plugged in though. I won't lose any sleep over it. What does bother me, is people who leave stuff turned on for no reason. My roommate literally never turns off the TV. He'll leave for class at 8:00 AM and come back to the apartment at 6:30 PM and it'll be on every hour he's not there to watch it. Same with people leaving their computer speakers on. There's just no reason.

[Ed Oscuro]

Nobody who says "I just leave it in" can possibly be a fiscal conservative (let alone an Objectivist) because they're forcing other people to subsidize their wasteful energy usage patterns. (Same goes for "liberal tree hugger" but that one was obvious.)

Even if it's only 5-10% of your energy use, that can be the difference between a summer blackout or the utility company needing to build another system.

If you put that in terms of gas mileage, you're talking an extra mile or two per gallon (assuming an improvement from 20 MPG).

For my part, I have to do some pretty wacky maneuvers and fancy footing to get to a power strip but I do it rarely enough. In any case I'm not prejudiced against giving myself a little stretch now and then.

[Ed Oscuro]

It seems odd to me to be discussing conservation of the planet when our hobby is 100% luxury and specifically involves relatively high electricity usage via our televisions and stereos, and also involves unimaginable amounts of fossil fuel usage to produce and ship the consoles and games.
False dilemma. Throughout human history (and before humans as well) "playing" has been something vital to human happiness, but it doesn't necessarily serve an "efficient" purpose. Boiled down, you've oversimplified the choice to being between enjoying modern luxuries and living in a 'state of nature' with no comforts at all.

It's worth mentioning that major graphics card review sites (and some of us legitimately have use for the power, i.e. to run graphical or scientific applications; I'm looking at Photoshop CS4 acceleration for instance) routinely focus on power consumption (at this moment the brief on the newest graphics card article (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Components,1/Graphics-Cards,4/) on Tom's Hardware starts with the following words: "After being shocked by the GeForce GTX 480's power consumption and outright disappointed by the GeForce GTX 465's performance for $279, Nvidia ...").

For graphics cards (monitors as well), potential power savings can be huge, far more than the "phantom power" costs mentioned here. My lack of a need for the kind of (computational) power the ATI 4870x2 requires caused me to never use mine (I'll be selling it soon). The last time I checked, the highly efficient Radeon HD 5850 was my favored choice, and while overall efficiency (performance / power consumption) wasn't the ultimate factor (price always steers you to one sector or another), that and related characteristics made the decision easy.

I compared electric bills one time. Power consumption isn't too different when you flick it all off. It's not worth the effort.
Arkhan is the kind of person who advises people not to pick up pennies (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/302/is-it-worth-it-to-pick-up-a-penny)


I love destroying my surroundings. I leave all my faucets running constantly. I cut down trees just to cut them down. Every outlet in my house is populated, and nothing gets shut off. I've got massive security/flood lights surrounding my house so noone can come bug me. I have a perpetual motion device constantly activating my toaster even. I say we torch this entire planet! Drain it down to a big floating wasteland! Wanna know why?
.
.
.
.
.
because then, high and mighty pole smokers like you wouldn't be around to act like they're better than everyone else about something as stupid as turning off some power strips for x amount of hours.
You really have to rethink your priorities when caring about the future of the world somehow less desirable than not being taken to task by some random person on the Internet. What you're saying is that the amount you needlessly pay into your electricity bill and the externalities that go along with that are far less aggravating to your poor soul than having somebody tell you your decisions may (gasp) be considered wrong and that you're not a unique and special snowflake. OH NOES MY LIFE IS RUINEZ!1111 Get a grip dude.

I love it when failure to massage somebody's failures suddenly makes you an ICONOCLAST and PUBLIC ENEMY #1. This is a discussion forum - if you don't like alternative viewpoints, at least learn to be an adult about it.

[Al Gore]

http://goodbadandugly2.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/poo.jpg

[dendawg]

http://goodbadandugly2.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/poo.jpg


Yes Al, you sure did shit on us by claiming to be an enviromentalist, while at the same time owning stake in a zinc mine. Talk about your inconvenient truths. :rolleyes:

[Gameguy]

Well, some studies have shown that standby power consumes 5% to 10% of the nation's energy. If those numbers are true, then people who DO unplug things have a valid arguement for doing so.
In order for US to reduce power consumption by 5% to 10% you just have to get all 307,006,550 citizens to unplug all of those standby appliances all of the time. I just don't see it happening.

How much power is used by manufacturing plants and businesses? Big box stores like Walmart and Target have a lot of lights on and air conditioning to keep their customers happy, plus any business big or small have electric powered signs to help advertise their businesses. Plenty of office buildings keep the lights on at night. It seems it's ok to use electricity as long as it's for business purposes.

Perhaps to save water we could go back to using outhouses or bathing once a week like in the "good ol' days". LOL



Even if it's only 5-10% of your energy use, that can be the difference between a summer blackout or the utility company needing to build another system.
I feel that's the real reason behind the move to conserve power, the plants can't keep up with demand so they want people to use less power. It's not about the environment.

If you really think about it, it would be better for blackouts to occur because then people will be using less electricity while they are happening. The environment wins!

I really dislike the compact fluorescent too. Unlike regular lightbulbs they emit UV light which can fade artwork, furniture, video game boxes, etc. Plus some people are sensitive to CFLs, a friend of mine is visually impaired and she often gets headaches from CFLs.



False dilemma. Throughout human history (and before humans as well) "playing" has been something vital to human happiness, but it doesn't necessarily serve an "efficient" purpose. Boiled down, you've oversimplified the choice to being between enjoying modern luxuries and living in a 'state of nature' with no comforts at all.
What about the Amish? They seem to be fine without any use of electricity. Who says you have to be happy? The environment should come first! LOL

[JSoup]

I actually tested that whole 'save money by using less power' thing in my last apartment. For one month, I used as little of everything that I possibly could (turned off power strips, didn't turn on TV or video games, cooked by candle light, etc). The second month, I used everything I could (left air conditioner, TV, power strips, etc on as close to 24/7 as I could without annoying myself).

The different between the two bills was exactly 46 cents.

[Icarus Moonsight]

That method wouldn't work for me. I have a level billing plan. Predicting month to month cost is king. Especially during the summer here. Before level billing, I'd have a ~$380 bill in August and a ~$95 bill in January. Plus, I usually get a credit in the winter and get to skip a payment or pretty near.

[Rob2600]

I actually tested that whole 'save money by using less power' thing in my last apartment. ... The different between the two bills was exactly 46 cents.

That's weird. Before I started being careful with my electricity usage, I was paying around $40 a month. Now, I'm paying around $30. That's an extra $120 in my pocket every year, just for being responsible and flipping some switches.

For a family of four, I imagine the savings would be even greater.


Before level billing, I'd have a ~$380 bill in August and a ~$95 bill in January.

How many people are you living with? A $380 power bill is insane. I *don't* have a level billing plan, and in the summer, I usually pay around $85 a month for gas and electric combined. In the winter, it's usually around $185 a month because of the gas heat. Keep in mind, I have two roommates, all three of us have computers, and we have a washer/dryer in the apartment. How was your bill $380??

[Zing]

I actually tested that whole 'save money by using less power' thing in my last apartment. For one month, I used as little of everything that I possibly could (turned off power strips, didn't turn on TV or video games, cooked by candle light, etc). The second month, I used everything I could (left air conditioner, TV, power strips, etc on as close to 24/7 as I could without annoying myself).

The different between the two bills was exactly 46 cents.

Are you sure you didn't have the type of billing where they estimate your energy usage and spread the entire year out across the monthly bills? That is what they do around here.

[nectarsis]

In order for US to reduce power consumption by 5% to 10% you just have to get all 307,006,550 citizens to unplug all of those standby appliances all of the time. I just don't see it happening.
LOL


Yet with that way of thinking it amounts to "if everyone doesn't do it what's the point of anyone doing it." Every little bit helps. Add to the fact "the hassle isn't worth it, or whatever excuse. It's not just the$ you save on your bill, let's ignore a vast majority of power plants in the uS are Coal, or other POLLUTING sources that also use natural resources we continually overuse to the point of eventual exhaustion. I'm far from a "tree hugger" but some of the "oh well" arguments are pretty weak.

[JSoup]

That's weird. Before I started being careful with my electricity usage, I was paying around $40 a month. Now, I'm paying around $30. That's an extra $120 in my pocket every year, just for being responsible and flipping some switches.

For a family of four, I imagine the savings would be even greater.


Oh, it's strange alright and you're not the first person to point that out. These apartments were overpriced pieces of crap, but the wiring was made out of Jesus copper or something. The guy next door to me was a video editor from the Yukon, so he had all of five of his computers running just about 24/7, along side the air conditioner set, full blast, to 65 24/7, year round. His monthly electric bill was, somehow, lower than mine.

[Zing]

This thread encouraged me to rewire several of my power strips.

I arranged the two in my computer room, so that I can freely switch one off when I am not using my desktop PC (I rarely, if ever, use it), but keep the other on as it supplies my external drives.

I re-arranged the one for my HDTV stuff, so I can turn it off at night, or when I don't think I will be using it anytime soon.

I also plan on keeping my PS1 and associated TV unplugged when not in use, although I am not sure how much energy those things use when not powered on. If I could find a cheap, wall mounted surge protector that has a switch, I would try it. None of the ones I looked at had a switch.

In my research, I came across a remote controlled power strip. It has a few switched and a few unswitched outlets. The remote allows you to turn the switched outlets on and off without having to reach behind the TV or whatever.

[Arkhan]

Arkhan is the kind of person who advises people not to pick up pennies

No shit. If they pick them up, how am I supposed to? Less for you, more for me. works for me. I need all the pennies I can get so I can fashion them all into a giant power generator in the shape of Lincoln's head, and further destroy Mother Earth.

you ought to watch it with those assumptions you make about people btw. Or, did you forget what happened last time you did that with MSX stuff?



You really have to rethink your priorities when caring about the future of the world somehow less desirable than not being taken to task by some random person on the Internet. What you're saying is that the amount you needlessly pay into your electricity bill and the externalities that go along with that are far less aggravating to your poor soul than having somebody tell you your decisions may (gasp) be considered wrong and that you're not a unique and special snowflake. OH NOES MY LIFE IS RUINEZ!1111 Get a grip dude.

If you took any of that quoted block seriously, you're a complete moron. :dance:



I love it when failure to massage somebody's failures suddenly makes you an ICONOCLAST and PUBLIC ENEMY #1. This is a discussion forum - if you don't like alternative viewpoints, at least learn to be an adult about it.

As soon as condescending insults and holier than thou horseshit enters the fray, the "being an adult" ship has sailed, and crashed into a rock, killing all on board.

If people want adult like discussions, they should tone down the dick-o-meter.

Think how much emergies we could've saevd if the ship hadn't crashed! All that wasted fuel trying to save the passengers! Damn.

Let the flailing commence.
\\^_^/ :fist: \\^_^/

[Gameguy]

Yet with that way of thinking it amounts to "if everyone doesn't do it what's the point of anyone doing it." Every little bit helps. Add to the fact "the hassle isn't worth it, or whatever excuse. It's not just the$ you save on your bill, let's ignore a vast majority of power plants in the uS are Coal, or other POLLUTING sources that also use natural resources we continually overuse to the point of eventual exhaustion. I'm far from a "tree hugger" but some of the "oh well" arguments are pretty weak.
How much does it help exactly? I've heard that it does yet haven't been presented any information that specifies exactly how much of an environmental benefit it actually is.

The US uses about 20% of the worlds total energy consumption. Out of total US energy consumption, approximately 21% of it is residential. Of that percentage, 5%-10% is standby power. Your personal impact is 1 in 307,006,550 of that 5%-10% of that 21% of that 20%. So how much does your specific little bit help?

I'd like to point out that in 1950 the population worldwide was approximately 2.6 Billion, today it's approximately 6.8 Billion. I'm pretty sure those people are all using more energy than you'd be able to save through turning off surge protectors, and the population will continue to increase which will increase energy usage even more.

http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/

[nectarsis]

How much does it help exactly? I've heard that it does yet haven't been presented any information that specifies exactly how much of an environmental benefit it actually is.

The US uses about 20% of the worlds total energy consumption. Out of total US energy consumption, approximately 21% of it is residential. Of that percentage, 5%-10% is standby power. Your personal impact is 1 in 307,006,550 of that 5%-10% of that 21% of that 20%. So how much does your specific little bit help?

I'd like to point out that in 1950 the population worldwide was approximately 2.6 Billion, today it's approximately 6.8 Billion. I'm pretty sure those people are all using more energy than you'd be able to save through turning off surge protectors, and the population will continue to increase which will increase energy usage even more.

http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/


Common sense would follow "every bit helps." Seems a better way to go about things than "well I only save 0.00000012% of all US standby power, BAH screw it" mentality no?

[Rob2600]

in 1950 the population worldwide was approximately 2.6 Billion, today it's approximately 6.8 Billion. I'm pretty sure those people are all using more energy than you'd be able to save through turning off surge protectors, and the population will continue to increase which will increase energy usage even more.

Which is exactly why we need to raise awareness, start conserving, and simplify our lives however we can.

That doesn't mean we all need to become Amish and shun modern technology. It just means we should unplug our mobile phone chargers when not in use, walk three blocks to the store instead of drive, use cloth bags instead of consuming more plastic ones, etc.

We need to think about our purchases, too. Who made the products we buy? Were those people treated fairly? What materials are the products made out of? How were the products shipped? Everything is connected. If we keep supporting the "upgrade" mentality, in which basically all of our expensive gadgets are considered disposable after a year or two, that will lead to very bad things. The same goes for our "disposable" mentality (disposable containers of soda, disposable containers of water, disposable towels, etc.).

Simply your life and think about what you're buying and using. I realize I'm wasting my time posting about this here and will most likely not change anyone's lifestyle - although Zing did rearrange his power strips, which is awesome, so maybe I'm not wasting my time after all. :)

[Arkhan]

I realize I'm wasting my time posting about this here

WASTE IS THE ENEMY!
:D

[Gameguy]

Common sense would follow "every bit helps." Seems a better way to go about things than "well I only save 0.00000012% of all US standby power, BAH screw it" mentality no?
I'd prefer actual scientific data to confirm if there are any actual meaningful benefits. I think you just feel less guilty about your energy consumption by using slightly less, but it has no real environmental impact. I personally try to use less electricity to save money, I just don't think that it's also helping the environment. I don't use air conditioning at all, I don't drive, I don't keep my systems plugged in or set up, I turn off my lights whenever possible, I do turn off most of my surge protectors(just not the one for my TV and VCR because of the VCR clock), try to use appliances during off peak hours since the billing now has different rates for different times used, etc. The best way to make a lasting difference in reducing energy consumption is to reduce the birth rate, if that doesn't change nothing else would really make a lasting difference.

If you're seriously in debt and the bank is going to foreclose on your house, finding a penny on the sidewalk isn't going to make a substantial difference. You're still going to lose your house.

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

If you're seriously in debt and the bank is going to foreclose on your house, finding a penny on the sidewalk isn't going to make a substantial difference. You're still going to lose your house.

But 50 pennies makes a penny roll, and with that you have a nice heavy item to throw at the agent who is foreclosing on your home during a angry fit.

[nectarsis]

I'd prefer actual scientific data to confirm if there are any actual meaningful benefits. I think you just feel less guilty about your energy consumption by using slightly less, but it has no real environmental impact. I personally try to use less electricity to save money, I just don't think that it's also helping the environment. I don't use air conditioning at all, I don't drive, I don't keep my systems plugged in or set up, I turn off my lights whenever possible, I do turn off most of my surge protectors(just not the one for my TV and VCR because of the VCR clock), try to use appliances during off peak hours since the billing now has different rates for different times used, etc. The best way to make a lasting difference in reducing energy consumption is to reduce the birth rate, if that doesn't change nothing else would really make a lasting difference.

If you're seriously in debt and the bank is going to foreclose on your house, finding a penny on the sidewalk isn't going to make a substantial difference. You're still going to lose your house.

So if it's not a meaningful number it's not worth it? This is the reason so many people have an "I don't care/whatever" attitude, and nothing will change. Your blurb about picking up a penny kind of contradicts your population growth. If the population keeps growing at the current rate those pennies do add up. Just because things aren't "instant gratification/results" doesn't make than any less worthwhile. Even a watt saved from a power plant addsup if enough people do it.

[jb143]

I actually tested that whole 'save money by using less power' thing in my last apartment. For one month, I used as little of everything that I possibly could (turned off power strips, didn't turn on TV or video games, cooked by candle light, etc). The second month, I used everything I could (left air conditioner, TV, power strips, etc on as close to 24/7 as I could without annoying myself).

The different between the two bills was exactly 46 cents.

It makes perfect sense that it would only be 46 cents actually. The problem with experiments like this(especially only over a 1 month period) is that the electric company estimates your bill. They average it out when they actually do read your meter, and because of that, your 1 month experiment may not even be noticed over a course of several months. Especially since you overused everything in the second month. Those 2 months would have averaged out to as if you did nothing different. :)

If you want to do it right, then don't go by your bill but instead read your own meter. Then, based on what you described, you should have seen a huge difference.

[JSoup]

It makes perfect sense that it would only be 46 cents actually. The problem with experiments like this(especially only over a 1 month period) is that the electric company estimates your bill. They average it out when they actually do read your meter, and because of that, your 1 month experiment may not even be noticed over a course of several months. Especially since you overused everything in the second month. Those 2 months would have averaged out to as if you did nothing different. :)

If you want to do it right, then don't go by your bill but instead read your own meter. Then, based on what you described, you should have seen a huge difference.

I just had an announcer voice in the back of my head: "America Energy Company! Millions of watts of power per month, for pennies on the dollar! Get like us today!"

[Gameguy]

Which is exactly why we need to raise awareness, start conserving, and simplify our lives however we can.

That doesn't mean we all need to become Amish and shun modern technology. It just means we should unplug our mobile phone chargers when not in use, walk three blocks to the store instead of drive, use cloth bags instead of consuming more plastic ones, etc.

We need to think about our purchases, too. Who made the products we buy? Were those people treated fairly? What materials are the products made out of? How were the products shipped? Everything is connected. If we keep supporting the "upgrade" mentality, in which basically all of our expensive gadgets are considered disposable after a year or two, that will lead to very bad things. The same goes for our "disposable" mentality (disposable containers of soda, disposable containers of water, disposable towels, etc.).

Simply your life and think about what you're buying and using. I realize I'm wasting my time posting about this here and will most likely not change anyone's lifestyle - although Zing did rearrange his power strips, which is awesome, so maybe I'm not wasting my time after all. :)
The simplest solution would be having less kids. Less people means less resources being used up. Unless the worldwide birth rate slows down cutting back very slightly on consumption won't work.


But 50 pennies makes a penny roll, and with that you have a nice heavy item to throw at the agent who is foreclosing on your home during a angry fit.
True, but you'll only be able to find the one penny. The penny represents the amount of energy you helped reduce, so you'll only have the one. LOL


So if it's not a meaningful number it's not worth it?
Pretty much. You can help prove me wrong though. Every recycling day take a long walk around your neighbourhood, collect every wine and beer bottle you can find and return them for the deposit. You'll make a couple of dollars and help reduce waste, it'll only take a few hours of your time every week if you walk(driving polutes too much). If you're willing to do that every week I guess you'll prove me wrong.


This is the reason so many people have an "I don't care/whatever" attitude, and nothing will change. Your blurb about picking up a penny kind of contradicts your population growth. If the population keeps growing at the current rate those pennies do add up. Just because things aren't "instant gratification/results" doesn't make than any less worthwhile. Even a watt saved from a power plant addsup if enough people do it.
The one penny represents the amount of energy you'll save compared to the amount you would need to save to have a meaningful impact for the environment. You mention "instant gratification/results", what if the results were "no gratification/results at all"? Would it still be worthwhile? If the population continues to grow as expected, any amount of energy saved will not be close to the amount that will be used by the increased population, any continuous increase will be too much as there's already way too much being used. It's like trying to save the Titanic by bailing out water with a thimble, you can believe you're making a difference but you're not.

Would you be willing to give up your favourite foods forever, only eating bitter mush if it would increase your lifespan by 2 minutes? I personally wouldn't give up so much for years and years just for 2 minutes more.

[Rob2600]

It's like trying to save the Titanic by bailing out water with a thimble, you can believe you're making a difference but you're not.

But what if everyone on the Titanic worked together to plug up the holes and bail out the water? In that case, there's hope.

I alone might not be able to conserve enough power and live a simple enough life to keep our surroundings clean and healthy, but together, we can make a difference. Why not be a team player for the greater good? You might inspire someone else and that person might inspire someone else, too. Why are you so resistant to doing something positive?

[nectarsis]

But what if everyone on the Titanic worked together to plug up the holes and bail out the water? In that case, there's hope.

I alone might not be able to conserve enough power to keep our surroundings clean and healthy, but together, we can make a difference. Why not be a team player for the greater good? You might inspire someone else and that person might inspire someone else, too. Why are you so resistant to doing something positive?


Well played..well played.

[Icarus Moonsight]

The simplest solution would be having less kids. Less people means less resources being used up. Unless the worldwide birth rate slows down cutting back very slightly on consumption won't work.

Next Olympics, we'll add a new event. Even people watching from TV and internet can compete too. Synchronized Worldwide Suicide. Kill your children and elderly first, wouldn't want any dependent starving to death slowly. Sing them to sleep softly with a slug through the cerebellum. Then geek yourself however you like. You'll be judged on form, originality and style... Don't blow it!

[Gameguy]

But what if everyone on the Titanic worked together to plug up the holes and bail out the water? In that case, there's hope.
You might want to read up more about the Titanic. The Titanic was fitted with a total of 8 pumps, the pumps together were capable of discharging 425,000 gallons per hour(that much water was flooding in every five minutes). When the ship was sinking, the pumps successfully slowed down the flooding in 2 of the boiler rooms but eventually the water overwhelmed the pumps, this took about 10 minutes after the initial collision to happen. The pumps helped the ship float for an extra few minutes. You're saying that if everyone on board helped bail water along with the pumps that the ship could have been saved? How many gallons per hour could the passengers have bailed? :drinking:

Though, your position on the Titanic is pretty much the same as most environmentalists on the environment and is just as effective. ;)


I alone might not be able to conserve enough power and live a simple enough life to keep our surroundings clean and healthy, but together, we can make a difference. Why not be a team player for the greater good? You might inspire someone else and that person might inspire someone else, too. Why are you so resistant to doing something positive?
You must not have read everything I posted. I'm already reducing the amount of energy I use, I just don't do it for the environment. Does it make a difference why I'm using less energy?


I don't use air conditioning at all, I don't drive, I don't keep my systems plugged in or set up, I turn off my lights whenever possible, I do turn off most of my surge protectors(just not the one for my TV and VCR because of the VCR clock), try to use appliances during off peak hours since the billing now has different rates for different times used, etc.


Well played..well played.
You didn't answer my question, will you be collecting wine and beer bottles on recycling days? Recycling the bottles will use more energy and resources, since they can be returned for the deposit and reused instead, it would be better for the environment if you did this. Will you be doing it?


Next Olympics, we'll add a new event. Even people watching from TV and internet can compete too. Synchronized Worldwide Suicide. Kill your children and elderly first, wouldn't want any dependent starving to death slowly. Sing them to sleep softly with a slug through the cerebellum. Then geek yourself however you like. You'll be judged on form, originality and style... Don't blow it!
I don't expect anyone will actually try to reduce the birth rate, people have a biological feeling to reproduce so they'll continue to do so. And I'll just not think about the problem since nothing will change.

Compaired to suicide, a more creative and environmental solution would be cannibalism. It would reduce surplus population while also providing food for those who are starving. Everybody wins, except those who become dinner. Which Iron Chef will reign supreme? LOL

[nectarsis]

You didn't answer my question, will you be collecting wine and beer bottles on recycling days? Recycling the bottles will use more energy and resources, since they can be returned for the deposit and reused instead, it would be better for the environment if you did this. Will you be doing it?


As I live in a semi rural area that isn't a feasible "solution" for me (plus your returned for a deposit is moot in my state as it doesn't exist). I recycle (and help my friends dad recycle at a scrap yard to separate, etc. Also have refitted my house with energy efficent items when redoing a room, conserve power... sorry I don't have a pessimistic/defeatist "it won't change anything'" attitude (which is prob the main reason WHY things would never change).

[Gameguy]

As I live in a semi rural area that isn't a feasible "solution" for me (plus your returned for a deposit is moot in my state as it doesn't exist). I recycle (and help my friends dad recycle at a scrap yard to separate, etc. Also have refitted my house with energy efficent items when redoing a room, conserve power... sorry I don't have a pessimistic/defeatist "it won't change anything'" attitude (which is prob the main reason WHY things would never change).
Fair enough, if there's no deposit then there's no point to it, the regular recycling is good enough. Where I am, beer bottles get returned, sterilized, and reused so it uses less energy than recycling them. They get reused 12-15 times before being recycled.

[Arkhan]

Everyone wants to help the environment until it becomes work.

and then they sit back on the internet and do this stuff, lol.

I think we got more important shit to worry about than saving some frigging electricity. Especially since its a renewable resource.

I'm more worried about crime rates and people killing people than I am some frikkin light bills and shit.

we were fine without electricity before Tesla was like WOOOO AC POWAH.

granted we'd be bored as fuck without electricity....

it beats being shot up by carjackers, or robbed in the streets.

Help the people, THEN help the environment.

This inspire a change babble is just stupid.

Especially since a few pages ago you (rob2600) were like ALL PEOPLE WHO DON'T SAVE ELECTRICITY ARE FAIL. UNCLASSY. NOT FORWARD THINKING! and shit. You can't be a douchenozzle about a topic and then change your tune to some inspiring infomercial bullshit and expect to be taken seriously about it.

Especially since the original douchenozzle post was chock full of assumptions, among other things.

If you want to preach about humanity, try doing it in a upbeat, non biased manner. Unless you think insulting followed by "inspiring" is going to lead to success.

[nectarsis]

Except that (at least in the US) a vast majority of power plants are fueled by using NON renewable/polluting fuels...coal being a BIG one). Help the people THEN the enviroment works..until the world is so overpopulated, and stripped of resources that it can't sustain those people you "helped."

[Arkhan]

Except that (at least in the US) a vast majority of power plants are fueled by using NON renewable/polluting fuels...coal being a BIG one).

Sometimes. Not always, and alternatives are starting to rear their heads. Alternatives have been an idea for awhile now. Eventually they'll be common place (yay), and this whole discussion will be a distant lol in the wind.



Help the people THEN the enviroment works..until the world is so overpopulated, and stripped of resources that it can't sustain those people you "helped."

So what you're saying is its better to let people kill each other, etc. so that we aren't overpopulated, thus saving resources? lol. I don't think you meant that, but it sounds like it. ;)

anyway, if you dont help the people, fixing the environment would be a temporary success that would swiftly be destroyed yet again.

It's more of an American thing anyways, this environment fuckery. We screw everything up here, :)

[nectarsis]

So what you're saying is its better to let people kill each other, etc. so that we aren't overpopulated, thus saving resources? lol. I don't think you meant that, but it sounds like it. ;)


NO lol..but the idea has merit :2gunfire::snipersmile:ROFL

[Icarus Moonsight]

Compaired to suicide, a more creative and environmental solution would be cannibalism. It would reduce surplus population while also providing food for those who are starving. Everybody wins, except those who become dinner. Which Iron Chef will reign supreme? LOL

Kuru Prion Disease. Then when one of the higher primates makes an evolutionary leap, we'll get another special interest group: Peth - Primates for the ethical treatment of humans. They'll use shock collars to teach us not to eat each other, then Charlton Heston will blast in and rescue us. If it's Mark Wahlburg, we're doomed.

[Sabz5150]

I'd prefer actual scientific data to confirm if there are any actual meaningful benefits. I think you just feel less guilty about your energy consumption by using slightly less, but it has no real environmental impact. I personally try to use less electricity to save money, I just don't think that it's also helping the environment. I don't use air conditioning at all, I don't drive, I don't keep my systems plugged in or set up, I turn off my lights whenever possible, I do turn off most of my surge protectors(just not the one for my TV and VCR because of the VCR clock), try to use appliances during off peak hours since the billing now has different rates for different times used, etc. The best way to make a lasting difference in reducing energy consumption is to reduce the birth rate, if that doesn't change nothing else would really make a lasting difference.

If you're seriously in debt and the bank is going to foreclose on your house, finding a penny on the sidewalk isn't going to make a substantial difference. You're still going to lose your house.

Saving the environment is nice and all, but I really take aim at those sheets of paper the local power company sends me every month. That aside, the less fossil fuel we burn, the better... even if its a .0012% reduction per person.

[otaku]

I've almost never unplugged my systems the amount of energy it uses for me at least is insignificant and my systems have not died any sooner either because of it as far as I'm concerned. I'll just leave em plugged in

[Gameguy]

Kuru Prion Disease. Then when one of the higher primates makes an evolutionary leap, we'll get another special interest group: Peth - Primates for the ethical treatment of humans. They'll use shock collars to teach us not to eat each other, then Charlton Heston will blast in and rescue us. If it's Mark Wahlburg, we're doomed.
Honestly I'm a bit confused by PETA's actual ad campaigns. Just take a look.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/3630/petacampaignlogo780981.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9260/82778086.jpg


So PETA wants us to....eat people?

[Rob2600]

So PETA wants us to....eat people?

No, PETA is illustrating the point that when people eat meat, they're eating dead bodies. People usually don't make that connection, that they're chewing on dead bodies.

[jb143]

I've almost never unplugged my systems the amount of energy it uses for me at least is insignificant and my systems have not died any sooner either because of it as far as I'm concerned. I'll just leave em plugged in

I'm not sure how you could possibly know that...or even test such a thing. That's a bit like saying, I know eating unheathy won't make me die sooner because my twin brother eats health and I haven't died before him.

Power supplies get hot and heat can cause the coating on the windings to wear out causing shorts. I'd be willing to bet that at least 90% of bad AC adaptors are caused by this.