Games with a major identity crisis.

[Oldskool]

Some games have been cross platformed and licensed so many times, that often the end result is a game that almost has nothing to do with the original. And then some games just have slight changes, but enough to make them different enough.

One game that I can think of is Super Mario Bros. 2 for the NES. Of course, as you may already know, this game was never a SMB game to begin with! Nintendo simply took another game from the Famicom, pulled the characters, and put the Mario gang in it and called it Super Mario Bros. Whereas in Japan, the REAL Super Mario Bros. 2 was exactly as it should have been.

Another game that has a FAR more problem with an identity crisis is Wonder Boy. My God. Basically the original Wonder Boy in the arcade was "Hudson's Adventure Island" on the NES. Just without Master Higgins and the title. Sega and Westone owned the rights to Wonderboy. Sega kept the rights to the name and the Wonder Boy character, but Hudson Soft purchased the rights to the Game. So they simply removed the main character, added Master Higgins, and called it Adventure Island.

Then Adventure Island and Wonder Boy went their separate ways. Adventure Island maintaining the original Wonder Boy style game play. And Wonder Boy turning into a sort of RPG/Platformer.

And to make matters even worse, Wonder Boy ended up on the Turbografx-16/PC Engine and was re-titled Dynastic Hero.

Then there was Bikkuriman, yet another offshoot of the series based on a popular Japanese animation. And that's a whole other story to go into.

More information about the confusion that is Wonder Boy on Wikipedia here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Boy

What other games suffer from a massive case of identity crisis?

[Pichu]

Well, not really games I dont think....

but maybe Sonic?

[skaar]

I would vote for the Sonic games too.

[hellfire]

Crash bandicoot

[Nico87]

Mario is more of a money insurance and mascot these days, or else I would mention the Mario series. It has definitely evolved to something better (Galaxy 1&2), but he's being used as a storefront for so many games it makes my eyes bleed.

Slightly off-topic, but I have nothing against game series that keep true to their original genre, but also tries to expand into another genre for one or two games. For example Puyo Puyo DA, the dancing game. It's alright aslong as it doesn't get too much out of hand.

[Oldskool]

I wouldn't say Sonic nor new Marios suffered from an identity crisis. Both games are still Sonic and Mario. The characters, while some have been omitted, and some added, have largely stayed the same. Now maybe the Sonic & Mario Olympics game could be considered one.

It's a game with two mascots, in one. And it's got Mario yet it was programmed by Sega (or so I've heard). Also, the game is no where near it's original style game play considering that it's basically a sports title. I wonder, would that be considered a game with an identity crisis?

[NayusDante]

Final Fantasy - How ironic, considering that it's been a theme in the series. Look at FF1, then look at FF13. Somebody's been drinking Mako...

[Gunface]

Funny, because I just played Wonder Boy last night for the first time and couldn't shut up about it being Adventure Island. Wonder Boy has blond hair and I think the Adventure Island dude has brown hair...totally different game.
;)

[garagesaleking!!]

Mario Party. While the new ones are great, they just dont have that same feel as the n64 versions, they are trying to get too fancy.

[pepharytheworm]

Athena, ever game is different. Some shes a pop star others a goddess sometimes both. And don't forget The King of Fighters version and then the other SNK version of her based off the original arcade version.

Check this out for more info
http://hardcoregaming101.net/athena/athena.htm

Here's more on Woderboy also
http://hardcoregaming101.net/wonderboy/wonderboy.htm

Mario may be in a lot of different games but he seems more of a jack of all trades then in an idenity crisis. His brother on the other hand doesn't know what to do without his brother. From quasi-educational to ghost hunter, he just can't find his niche.

[TheClash603]

Sonic is the winner of the games that lost their way trophy. Once they went 3D, the games sucked. Even the 2D games after the 3D ones sucked, with the extra characters no one wanted.

Mortal Kombat VS DC is a good example of a game that had no idea what it wanted to do.

[Push Upstairs]

One game that I can think of is Super Mario Bros. 2 for the NES. Of course, as you may already know, this game was never a SMB game to begin with! Nintendo simply took another game from the Famicom, pulled the characters, and put the Mario gang in it and called it Super Mario Bros. Whereas in Japan, the REAL Super Mario Bros. 2 was exactly as it should have been.

I honestly think SMB2 should have been something else besides what either country got, maybe a half-way mix between both games.

We have one game that doesn't really seem anything like the previous game, while the other is pretty much just a harder version of the first game.

[Pk116]

Dragon's Lair! It is a different game on every system that it was ported to. I have only tried the C64, NES, and SNES versions, but it is on the GBC too!

[Rickstilwell1]

I honestly think SMB2 should have been something else besides what either country got, maybe a half-way mix between both games.

We have one game that doesn't really seem anything like the previous game, while the other is pretty much just a harder version of the first game.

But if you think about it, all 6 Mega Man games for NES are pretty much that.

[kupomogli]

This was already stated, but I'd also have to go with Mario. Mario was a platformer for the longest time and then they come out with sports, fighting, racing, etc. Most of the games are fairly good for their genre, like Mario Golf was good for a golf game, however that's all it is. It's Mario being milked in every way possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually come out with an FPS based on Mario.

[Baloo]

I don't think Mario ever had an identity crisis. He's always had mainly the same gameplay in his 2D games, and the same gameplay in his 3D Games.

Sonic, he's changed a bit over the years, but he hasn't totally lost his identity either. It's just changed...for the worse. But he's still recognizable as Sonic.

Also, Super Mario Bros. USA > Super Mario Bros. 2 (JAP). All the time.

[j_factor]

For a single game (instead of a series), look at James Pond 2: Robocod. It has some bizarre "ports" that barely resemble the original game. Not sure what's up with that.

[kupomogli]

I don't think Mario ever had an identity crisis. He's always had mainly the same gameplay in his 2D games, and the same gameplay in his 3D Games.

Mario Golf, Hoops 3 on 3, Tennis, Strikers, Party, Kart, Calculator, Superstar Baseball, Dr. Mario, Party, etc, etc. I could go on.

[ReTrO-pLaYeR]

Rayman's one that comes to mind. First, he's a cute little cartoon character who clambers around in tough (and beautifully designed, artistically and structurally) stages in his attempt to crush a central bad guy. Next, the plot becomes a tad deeper and more characters are added to the table. Then, the franchise takes a turn for humor and a bit of a darker taste in Hoodlum Havoc.

Then it all falls downhill. Rayman Raving Rabbids is released, proving to be a nice diversion. Slowly, Rayman fades away as the moronic rabbid creatures take place. After hearing no word of his triumphant return, Rayman: Origins is unveiled....Beavis and Butthead-esque hilarity is likely to ensue given the trailer.

[pepharytheworm]

Mario Golf, Hoops 3 on 3, Tennis, Strikers, Party, Kart, Calculator, Superstar Baseball, Dr. Mario, Party, etc, etc. I could go on.

So those games make you think Mario doesn't know who he is? I play video games then might go out side and play basketball and then ride a go-kart does that mean I am having a idenity crisis? When I see mario dressing gangsta I might believe he is having an idenity crisis, being a doctor and a referee is close though. Mario has been in Sports, Puzzle, racing and platformers for a while, its not like he stopped one and only did another. Thats why I said Luigi because he seems to not know what to do or be without his brother.

[Haoie]

Spyro classic vs Legend of Spyro

What a battle?

[Nico87]

Mario Golf, Hoops 3 on 3, Tennis, Strikers, Party, Kart, Calculator, Superstar Baseball, Dr. Mario, Party, etc, etc. I could go on.

Hey, don't forget Mario Picross!

[Kiddo]

The title of this thread has apparently gotten people thinking many different things about the concept of a franchise with an "Identity Crisis".

Could it refer to Wonder Boy/Monster World/Adventure Island's almost-literal case in terms of game-namin,g, where an identical game could have different names depending on Language, Platform, or Copyright Issue? A franchise which tried a genre shift that didn't go well and since then never found it's way back to success? Cloud Strife's "I think I'm a clone" moments in FFVII?... eh-hem.

I'd find it hard to call Mario's milking an "identity crisis", because a crisis has the implication of the projects being haphazard, chaotic or made up on-the-fly in a sense, which Mario games most certainly aren't - the milking is most certainly deliberate and successful.

[ccovell]

One game that I can think of is Super Mario Bros. 2 for the NES. Of course, as you may already know, this game was never a SMB game to begin with! Nintendo simply took another game from the Famicom, pulled the characters...

I wish people would quit ragging on SMB 2/USA and Doki Doki Panic. Sure, they did a character swap, but Nintendo didn't just pull any old game off the shelves; they planned a "Mario-like" Miyamoto production from the start, and tied DDP in with Mario in advertisements:

http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/secret/1980s/DokiDokiPanicCard.jpg

http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/secret/1980s/DokiDokiPanicMark.jpg

Nintendo likely had Mario in mind when making the game anyway, as they knew they couldn't use Fuji TV's characters for the overseas market version of DDP.


Anyway.... Other games that have a serious case of sloppy seconds are Kid Kool/Psycho Fox/Magical Hats/Decap-Attack, basically all the same game style given a fresh coat of paint each time.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I don't understand Mario included in the whole identity crisis thing...

The identity of Mario is so concrete, it can be transplanted from it's origin in Donkey Kong, a supporting role, and go anywhere and do anything and it remains cohesive. Argument for the concrete identity of a concept do not get much better than the case of Mario... It is the reason that Mario represents not only himself, and not only Nintendo, but video gaming at large worldwide. Mario is literally the freakin' Mickey Mouse of video games for Pete's sake.

Definitely Sonic, for going from king to jester - in a flash. LOL

[starsoldier1]

Legendary Axe II for the Turbografx-16. This game has almost nothing to do with the first title and the axe isn't even the main weapon.

[Oldskool]

Yeah I meant games more like the ones that I've stated, you are correct. I think people are off just slightly what I meant by identity crisis. But everyone has their own definition of what that may mean I guess.


The title of this thread has apparently gotten people thinking many different things about the concept of a franchise with an "Identity Crisis".

Could it refer to Wonder Boy/Monster World/Adventure Island's almost-literal case in terms of game-namin,g, where an identical game could have different names depending on Language, Platform, or Copyright Issue? A franchise which tried a genre shift that didn't go well and since then never found it's way back to success? Cloud Strife's "I think I'm a clone" moments in FFVII?... eh-hem.

I'd find it hard to call Mario's milking an "identity crisis", because a crisis has the implication of the projects being haphazard, chaotic or made up on-the-fly in a sense, which Mario games most certainly aren't - the milking is most certainly deliberate and successful.

[Oldskool]

Not ragging on SMB2 in any way. I actually prefer it to the real SMB2, actually. As far as them being tied together in some sort of fashion, I never knew that. That's pretty interesting what you posted there. That's the side of the story that the Irate Gamer never mentioned.


I wish people would quit ragging on SMB 2/USA and Doki Doki Panic. Sure, they did a character swap, but Nintendo didn't just pull any old game off the shelves; they planned a "Mario-like" Miyamoto production from the start, and tied DDP in with Mario in advertisements:

http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/secret/1980s/DokiDokiPanicCard.jpg

http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/secret/1980s/DokiDokiPanicMark.jpg

Nintendo likely had Mario in mind when making the game anyway, as they knew they couldn't use Fuji TV's characters for the overseas market version of DDP.


Anyway.... Other games that have a serious case of sloppy seconds are Kid Kool/Psycho Fox/Magical Hats/Decap-Attack, basically all the same game style given a fresh coat of paint each time.

[Oldskool]

Legendary Axe II for the Turbografx-16. This game has almost nothing to do with the first title and the axe isn't even the main weapon.

Yeah totally right? The game is NOTHING like the first one except that it's a side scrolling platformer, with a somewhat medieval theme. Even though the first one had more of a caveman style them I always thought.

I would almost put my finger on it that Legendary Axe 2 was actually going to be a different game and the title was switched at the last moment.

[pepharytheworm]

You could say Final Fantasy series had an identy crisis in the US, where games were numbered different but on later releases recieved the proper number. But I guess a lot of RPGs had this problem Dragon Warrior/Dragon Quest. And don't forget The US tales of Destiny II is not the Japanese Tales of Destiny II.

I still think Athena is the best example of a character with an idenity crisis. Shes got to be schizo.

Another one is Pac-Man. He has tried many new gaming concepts but just can't seem to get anything right. He doesn't know who he is anymore.

[Rob2600]

I don't understand Mario included in the whole identity crisis thing...

You have to consider who suggested Mario:

kupomogli

So basically, the Mario suggestion is null and void.

[Thrillo]

I wish people would quit ragging on SMB 2/USA and Doki Doki Panic. Sure, they did a character swap, but Nintendo didn't just pull any old game off the shelves; they planned a "Mario-like" Miyamoto production from the start, and tied DDP in with Mario in advertisements:


Nintendo likely had Mario in mind when making the game anyway, as they knew they couldn't use Fuji TV's characters for the overseas market version of DDP.

I remember reading on some message board that the ROM of Doki Doki Panic has the same animated sprite routines that SMB2 has, even though Doki Doki Panic has almost no animated sprites (ie. animated grass). Why would they put them there if they were never meant to be used? From what I gather, it looks as though DDP was meant to be converted to a Mario game from the very beginning.

[Tokimemofan]

Tale Phantasia um excuse me "Tales of Phantasia" Namco thought that it shouldn't be a Hiouden spinoff. I won't even bother trying to decipher that implosion but it was epic, both the game and the implosion were epic

[Malon_Forever]

Star Fox seems to be confused ever since the Gamecube.

[fahlim003]

Legendary Axe II for the Turbografx-16. This game has almost nothing to do with the first title and the axe isn't even the main weapon.

So no "Hey Boo Boo, let's fuck this guy up!" moments eh? That's a shame, as LA1 is a great game.

[Famidrive-16]

Dragon's Lair! It is a different game on every system that it was ported to. I have only tried the C64, NES, and SNES versions, but it is on the GBC too!

No joke, the GBC version is actually a downsized port of the arcade one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4DZcWbFZCc

[ccovell]

A little trivia: the Game Boy (DMG) version of Dragon's Lair was a remake of the ZX Spectrum game "Roller Coaster" from 1985.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'd actually put my finger on Castlevania.

Series started out as an action platformer that played with monster movie cliches.

Fantastic! Igarashi got a whip, and the series, and decided it was about silver haired femboys, and leveling.

The breaks have been clean though. Take a look at the N64 games - they're pretty much their own beast entirely, and share very little in common with what came before or after, stylistically. (Plenty of nods in at least one direction though.)

To a lesser extent Ninja Gaiden has had the same change. The new ones had, wisely, added the cast of Tecmo's popular fighters...Irene Lew can move over for the likes of Ayane and Kasumi. Unlike Konami's moves with Castlevania, there's nothing to rue about that. (Though we still kind of wonder what happened to poor Irene; video game character purgatory is a mean fate.)

No joke, the GBC version is actually a downsized port of the arcade one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4DZcWbFZCc
Hey, that's almost as cool as Alone in the Dark!

Legendary Axe II for the Turbografx-16. This game has almost nothing to do with the first title
That's because it doesn't. Totally unrelated game by Victor that was rebadged for overseas release. I'm not sure which one I like / hate more. Probably like the second one better overall. Damn silly maze in the first one...both have brutal difficulty though.

And, of all things, what about the game series you've nicknamed yourself after? The Star Soldier series seems to have split in two as well, with Star Force (Tecmo made some games in the series for a while, up to at least the arcade-only Final Star Force) while Hudson (who ported Star Force to the MSX via BeeCard, which I have sitting right here on my desk) went on with the wildly popular Star Soldier series. Both had tournaments but it seems the Soldier games were far more popular. Some games in the Star Soldier series seem to take more than a cue from the Star Force games. Hector '87 looks and feels somewhere between both series - clunkier than even Star Force, though, but with the expanded score attack of a Soldier series game.

Yes, there is continuity between these series, as Star Force and Star Soldier are directly in the same line. Star Force comes in the menu of Hudson's 1994 "Caravan Shooting Collection" immediately before Star Soldier.

Things have gotten even crazier lately, though the Soldier stuff all seems to be on Hudson's side now. There was a Soldier game on the Aleck 64 (Seta!) hardware, and there have been well-regarded games for almost all the consoles, including N64, PS2, Wii, etc. - I think PSP too.

----

If there's something to be made out of this, it's that the typical informal arrangements common throughout the world in the early days of video games led to amicable, apparently litigation-free splits in Japan, as different companies or groups made off with different assets. Hudson seems to have been pretty successful with IPs that started with other groups - by coincidence two splits (Wonder Boy / Adventure Island, and the Star Force / Soldier split) involve them, though, so maybe there's more than "luck" involved there.