How good of a RPG is Panzer Dragoon Saga?

[erehwon]

Panzer Dragoon Saga is one of the main games I've been searching for since I started collecting. I saw a copy at a local store today and it was priced at $159. It's kind of annoying when you see one of your main wants sitting there like that. The only way I'll ever get to play this is if I manage to find one at a garage sale. Which, isn't very likely.

Anyways, I was wondering how good of a game it is in general? I like RPGs and I was hoping that rarity isn't the only thing keeping the price high.

[Jisho23]

The problem w/ Panzer Dragoon Saga is that there really isn't an equivalent game on a different console. It really is it's own beast. Therefore (and unfortunately) the only way to know if you will personally like the game is to... well, play it for yourself.

As for what other people think... you either REALLY like the game (the camp I am in) or you think its not worth the price of admission (not necessarily bad).

PS: $159 is about as cheep as you will get if for (especially if its complete).

[Kyle15]

I paid $162 and don't regret it in the least. The only thing I worried about was not liking it by chance; I turned out to love it. My expectation was large, but not through the roof from hype. (A contributing factor to my enjoyment, suppose.)

Here's a list of pluses:
-Great story. Sort of minimalist, but not barren like some think.

-Small cast of characters. No overblown "fan-service" types. Plus, the atmosphere is great. There doesn't seem to be much around in the game's two towns. This works for the feel and story, so just go with it. Loneliness in such a world was what the creators aimed for.

-Wonderful visuals and art direction. Dated and a bit blocky by today's standards, but quite nice.

-Battles are random but play like a turn-based rail-shooter. Select your target and attack.

-Attacking isn't that simple; you get three action gauges that fill-up kind of like Chrono Trigger. Each action uses a different amount. This mechanic turns into a strategic game of action conservation. Wait for the right moment to strike and defend, in other words.

-Dragon customization. He levels up with exp, but can be twisted in stats at anytime. His character model changes depending on stat distribution, which is a nice touch.

-Fantastic music. Sample some on Youtube to see what I mean.

Well, that's the experience I got. It was over in about 12 hours though. While I love games that don't drag on for over 20 hours, this factor can be a potential turn-off. That's the only other thing that you need to know before making your purchase.

[Wraith Storm]

The problem w/ Panzer Dragoon Saga is that there really isn't an equivalent game on a different console. It really is it's own beast.

I couldn't agree with this more. There really is nothing else like Panzer Dragoon Saga. It re-wrote rules for RPG's. The mechanics, gameplay and story telling are delivered in a way few other RPGs ever have.

But I suggest you play Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon II Zwei first, If you already haven't. They will introduce you to the graphic style and ease you into how the world feels. Not to mention they are much more wallet friendly. Then if you really like them, make the plunge for Panzer Dragoon Saga.

Not to mention that you will get much, MUCH more out of Panzer Dragoon Saga if you have played the first two. While they are not directly connected. Panzer Dragoon Saga does reference the first two game and brings everything together.

[Zama]

Panzer Dragoon Saga was one of the finest Saturn games I got the honored to play through. :) For me, it was ahead of its time from the bleak nature of the graphics, diverse music, artistic view on storytelling & the gameplay itself can leave you in awe of its hidden masterpiece. As of result of that experience, Panzer Dragoon Saga is still in my collection to this very day. :) If you ever get the chance to get it erehwon, give it a chance to grow on you so you may experience the same amazing journey that many people have went through before you. ^^

[klausien]

It lasts approximately 12 extremely satisfying hours (perfect) if that matters to you. I am not an RPG guy per se [I was a huge fan of the Lunar series on Sega CD as a young adult (eighth grade), and did my share of the 8 & 16-bit grindfests, but I like action], but PDS is SUBLIME. Graphically it is extremely dated now (be prepared - really), but it is definitely still a unique and rewarding gaming experience. I would buy it again at your price even though I purchased at its original onsale date for $49.99. I had to search it out even then honestly. Drove 50 miles to get it at the time. Worth every penny. I'll never sell it, and it's not because of money. I'm a purist, and I consider it a peak experience. Like I said, I'm not an RPG guy, and I've played through it 3 times and I'm sure I'll do it again.

Panzer Dragoon Saga is my favorite RPG. I love the PD world, and PDS is the ultimate expression outside of Orta on XBox (understated classic). The battle system in PDS is simply incredible and fun as hell. Best ever. Truly. The music is also unparalled. The best comparison I can think of is Peter Gabriel's Passion, which was the soundtrack to Scorcese's The Last Temptation of Christ. Not a religious statement (I'm athiest myself), but the vibe is the same. World music with heavy emotion. Epic stuff.

[mobiusclimber]

You can get the game cheaper. I sold disc & manual only for $100 (and paid a bit less than that for it). I definitely think it's worth playing, but I can't say I really got sucked into the game. The battle engine is definitely fun, and it's a very unique world. I think I probably needed to play it a few more times. The game is pretty short, but definitely rewards repeated playthrus (if you don't cheat and use a walkthru the first time like I did).

[klausien]

The game is pretty short, but definitely rewards repeated playthrus (if you don't cheat and use a walkthru the first time like I did).

D-Units are the key.

[crazyjackcsa]

D-Units are the key.

I can really only echo what's already been said. It's a great, albeit short game.

If you enjoy Saturn/Ps1 era graphics, then you won't a problem, style wins out but damn are they blocky.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the amount of FMV. It's all well done, but there is a lot of it, and it can be annoying at times.

[erehwon]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the amount of FMV. It's all well done, but there is a lot of it, and it can be annoying at times.

I don't think that'll be much of a problem for me. I got through all the cutscenes in MGS4 alright.

I would love pick up that copy from that local store of mine, but I just don't have the money. I would have to sell off my laseractive and a couple other things to be able to. I just think that I would rather continue to look elsewhere. It is one of my main wants and don't really want to deprive myself of the thrill of finding it in someone's garage. The slim chance of finding that and some of my other rare wants is what keeps going out.

[WoodyXP]

PDS is my favorite RPG, hands down. It's worth the $150+ tag, IMO.

[gameofyou]

I would buy it again at your price even though I purchased at its original onsale date for $49.99. I had to search it out even then honestly.

LOL. Same here. It took me forever to find one, even when it was first released. Great game though. I played through it again recently, & it was as awesome as the first time I played it.

[gumbyandpals]

If you have the ability to play imports, you could get a copy of the JP version (Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG) and see if you like the gameplay/mechanics.

The import version can be had dirt cheap. This is what I did, and it convinced me to shell out for the US version.

[slackur]

Rather than repeat the positive comments here (all of which I agree with), let me explain my love for this game through recalling my strange history with it:

Over ten years ago, I found my first copy at Electronics Boutique, on clearance, for $20 bucks. Obviously not knowing the value it would hold in the future, I debated between it and Enemy Zero. My love for the two previous Panzer Dragoon games won out and I picked it up.

Took my Saturn on vacation a year later and finally broke the shrink wrap on PDS. I put twenty hours into it over the next few days, searching every nook and cranny, loading some areas just for the music. The ending left me breathless, and remained my favorite game ending all the way until Shadow of the Colossus.

Later that year, the game, along with over $10,000 worth of property (including my 80% complete TG16/CD/Duo collection) was stolen from my house.

Fast forward until a few years ago. I've slowly regrown my collection, and goof off on ebay to check for a replacement PDS. I was prepared to spend fifty, sixty bucks to get it again, and relive the experience. $150?!?!? No. No, that can't be right. I figured it would hold value, but...I just can't afford that. I've already completed it anyway.

Then, early this year, I bite the bullet, get my beloved's permission, and find a copy through an online seller. $150 bucks and a nervous week later, it shows up. AWESOME! I eagerly open the case and glance at the discs. Disc one is mildly scratched. Eh. I can get it repaired if necessary. Lets check for pinholes and disc rot.

Fourth disc. Pinhole. Bright as day. My heart drops like a rock. An expensive, mostly useless rock.

Good thing the seller has a return policy. Strange, he doesn't reply to my emails.

For the next FOUR MONTHS.

Eventually, he does respond, and says he stopped using the email address he gave me. (?!?) He did take the return though, and then I found DP's own le geek selling a copy. Knowing I could trust the site, I ask about the potential to return for pinholes, and he agrees.

One week later, and Panzer Dragoon Saga has finally, after over a decade, found home again. Great condition, no disc rot/pinholes. (thanks again, le geek!!)

The take home here? Always ask about pinholes and returns for CD games.
And, Panzer Dragoon Saga was/is worth it.

[Black_Tiger]

If you have the ability to play imports, you could get a copy of the JP version (Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG) and see if you like the gameplay/mechanics.

The import version can be had dirt cheap. This is what I did, and it convinced me to shell out for the US version.

I was going to suggest this. Unlike traditional RPGs, there's not a lot of dialogue and it's pretty straightforward for the most part. You won't be missing much playing the japanese version with a walkthrough and you can then judge for yourself if it's worth it to buy the english version.

A warning though, both the North American and Japanese versions won't play if any region bypass cart is present. Whatever your setup(s) is, you must have the same region console or a region switch mod.

[wingzrow]

I've only played maybe an hour or two but i love what i've played. The sense of loneliness when you first get the character in that water cavern was cool. Battles remind me of skies of arcadia's ship battles where you did more damage by circling around enemies but way more involved than that. I always love lonely, minimalist environments in my games & this game has tons ( in the first few hours anyway )

[Kyle15]

I was going to suggest this. Unlike traditional RPGs, there's not a lot of dialogue and it's pretty straightforward for the most part. You won't be missing much playing the japanese version with a walkthrough and you can then judge for yourself if it's worth it to buy the english version.

A warning though, both the North American and Japanese versions won't play if any region bypass cart is present. Whatever your setup(s) is, you must have the same region console or a region switch mod.

Really? I never knew that. Weird....

[Icarus Moonsight]

LOL. Same here. It took me forever to find one, even when it was first released. Great game though. I played through it again recently, & it was as awesome as the first time I played it.

Only place I ever found them was at TRU, for $99.99. They were always bitches with RPG prices back then. Phantasy Stars, Dragon Warriors, and others seemed to come with the hundred dollar staple price. I think FFVII was the first major release they sold at proper MSRP, instead of double.

$100 seemed crazy to pay for a game... If I only knew where I [and it] was heading.

[The 1 2 P]

For those not wanting to pay the price of admission for the US version, you can always get the import version. It will only run you around $20 or less and playing Japanese imports on a US Saturn is very simple with a cheap import convertor.

Beyond that, I suppose you all could wait a few more months. Eventually Sega will start rereleasing their Saturn catalogue of games the same way they just recently announced they were rereleasing Dreamcast games as digital download copies. They haven't made an official announcement yet but they are definitely taking it into consideration (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/sega-saturn-digital-downloads-might-be-in-the-cards/).

[Baloo]

Beyond that, I suppose you all could wait a few more months. Eventually Sega will start rereleasing their Saturn catalogue of games the same way they just recently announced they were rereleasing Dreamcast games as digital download copies. They haven't made an official announcement yet but they are definitely taking it into consideration (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/sega-saturn-digital-downloads-might-be-in-the-cards/).

The thing is, Panzer Dragoon Saga's source code was lost in either a fire or a crashed computer (It was one of the two, and Magical Knight Rayearth was lost to the other factor. I can't remember) years ago, so no ports can really be made, unless someone were to go and build the game from the ground up, and I highly doubt Sega is willing to do that.

The Saturn is my favorite system and I've been wanting to play PDS for a while now, although I can't even find a copy of Panzer Dragoon II Zwei, and I haven't gotten around to playing through Panzer Dragoon. I'm not an RPG guy as well (save for tactical and action, hate the Japanese turn-based stuff, but I love the Fire Emblem series), but I'll trust your judgement klausien. :)

[gameofyou]

For those not wanting to pay the price of admission for the US version, you can always get the import version. It will only run you around $20 or less and playing Japanese imports on a US Saturn is very simple with a cheap import convertor.



You need to enter a specific code into the cart, before it will play, though. Otherwise it will say something like "please remove the incompatible cartridge".

[erehwon]

For those not wanting to pay the price of admission for the US version, you can always get the import version. It will only run you around $20 or less and playing Japanese imports on a US Saturn is very simple with a cheap import convertor.

Beyond that, I suppose you all could wait a few more months. Eventually Sega will start rereleasing their Saturn catalogue of games the same way they just recently announced they were rereleasing Dreamcast games as digital download copies. They haven't made an official announcement yet but they are definitely taking it into consideration (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/sega-saturn-digital-downloads-might-be-in-the-cards/).

Would a ST Key work, for playing the import PDS? I got one of these with a saturn bundle I found at a garage sale. I did hear that those devices can damage the slot on the saturn, so I might not want to use it.

If I did look into the import, where would be the best place to get it?

[Baloo]

Would a ST Key work, for playing the import PDS? I got one of these with a saturn bundle I found at a garage sale. I did hear that those devices can damage the slot on the saturn, so I might not want to use it.

If I did look into the import, where would be the best place to get it?

Chuck the ST Key, it's horrible for your cart slot. If you want to play any imports, the Action Replay 4-in-1 is the way to go. Although you can't put saves on it for Panzer Dragoon Saga...so yeah.

I guess your best bet is to get a Japanese Saturn, but then at that point you might as well just buy the US version of the game.

[The 1 2 P]

You need to enter a specific code into the cart, before it will play, though. Otherwise it will say something like "please remove the incompatible cartridge".

With an Action Replay 4 in 1 you don't enter any codes. You just put the disc in and play.


Would a ST Key work, for playing the import PDS? I got one of these with a saturn bundle I found at a garage sale. I did hear that those devices can damage the slot on the saturn, so I might not want to use it.

If I did look into the import, where would be the best place to get it?

Like Baloo said, forget the ST Key and just get an Action Replay 4 in 1. As for where to get the import version, ebay of course. You can also locate it on some Japanese import web sites.


Chuck the ST Key, it's horrible for your cart slot. If you want to play any imports, the Action Replay 4-in-1 is the way to go. Although you can't put saves on it for Panzer Dragoon Saga...so yeah.

Why can't you put Panzer Dragoon Saga saves on the Action Replay cart? I haven't heard that before. Is the save system incompatible with the Action Replay cart?

[mobiusclimber]

I'm using an ST-Key on my Japanese Saturn. I played the US Panzer Dragoon Saga that way. So no idea about this whole "doesn't work w/ a bypass cart" thing. Didn't know the ST-Key could screw up my cart slot tho.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Maybe if your hotswapping the ST-Key with a RAM cart on boot (which we'd used to have to do)... Otherwise, that's news to me too.

[gameofyou]

Trust me. It will complain if you try to boot Panzer Dragoon Saga, with a 4-in-1 cartridge inserted.

[Kevincal]

i dont care how good any game is, i will never spend close to $100 on 1 game let alone $150 !!!!!!! ;)

[Black_Tiger]

I have tested multiple ST-Keys, the 4-in-1 and other import carts with multiple copies of the North American and Japanese Panzer Dragoon Saga/Azel on multiple North American, Japanese Saturns (some with and some without modchips), including a North American Saturn that was modded to be Japanese-only... and every time it booted to a screen saying that it will not play because of an "illegal cart" or something.

It might've also happened with a 3rd party memory cart that can't be saved directly to. It's been years since I've tried though, so maybe things have magically changed. ;)

[Steven]

True story, I've had this game CIB for about six years now, but still have yet to play it through. I only played it for about 10 minutes back in the day. Just sitting around... waiting to finally be beaten. I will one day. I remember enjoying it for the 10 minutes I played it six years ago.

Got real lucky too... bought it for $85 shipped CIB back in 2004.

[erehwon]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I can't do the Japanese version. I guess I have to hope for finding a US copy. Is there are European version that would be any easier to get? I doubt it, but I thought I'd ask.

[Kyle15]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I can't do the Japanese version. I guess I have to hope for finding a US copy. Is there are European version that would be any easier to get? I doubt it, but I thought I'd ask.

You'd pay the same amount as an American copy, maybe a bit more. Since the other versions have problems with the region carts, I suggest going straight for the US release.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

I have tested multiple ST-Keys, the 4-in-1 and other import carts with multiple copies of the North American and Japanese Panzer Dragoon Saga/Azel on multiple North American, Japanese Saturns (some with and some without modchips), including a North American Saturn that was modded to be Japanese-only... and every time it booted to a screen saying that it will not play because of an "illegal cart" or something.

It might've also happened with a 3rd party memory cart that can't be saved directly to. It's been years since I've tried though, so maybe things have magically changed. ;)


i play my copy of pds on a japanese skeleton saturn using a 4 in 1 cart, the message that pops up warning u about the cart as i've understood it, was an implementation of an anti cheat code written into the game by the developers


you need to put in a gameshark code into the 4 in 1 cheat screen to get around it, a quick google search should net you the code, hope that helps.

[Black_Tiger]

i play my copy of pds on a japanese skeleton saturn using a 4 in 1 cart, the message that pops up warning u about the cart as i've understood it, was an implementation of an anti cheat code written into the game by the developers

you need to put in a gameshark code into the 4 in 1 cheat screen to get around it, a quick google search should net you the code, hope that helps.

Awesome, thanks a lot. I was certain that it had happened with a non-import cart as well.



Thanks for the info. Looks like I can't do the Japanese version. I guess I have to hope for finding a US copy. Is there are European version that would be any easier to get? I doubt it, but I thought I'd ask.

If you can't use a cheat code to get around the lockout, you'd still save a ton of money buying a japanese Saturn + Azel instead of the english version.