Can Sega CD full motion video be restored and remastered in high def?

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

I may not have a full understanding of how the full motion video in Sega CD games was filmed, but I imagine they recorded it with a normal video camera, then ran it through a computer, and then downgraded it onto a Sega CD disc. If this is so, couldn't they locate the original film and remake the game in a better film quality, perhaps high def?

And what about a game like Road Avenger. Since the cartoony scenes look pre-rendered, I woder if those could be cleaned up and made into a remastered edtions. Wouldn't that be sweet?

Maybe the could release a Blu-Ray disc with all the footage from thier games dumped on it. Imagine turning down the lights, making some popcorn, and watching a mini Sewer Shark movie, or maybe some Night Trap.

[Leo_A]

If it was videotaped like many prime time television shows were from the 70s onward and daytime television (Game shows, soap operas, etc.) were from ~1960 onwards, it's never going to be in high definition. The best that could be done is to upscale the transfers.

And I can almost guarantee you it was taped to keep cost down, for the ease of editing, and due to the realization that the gaming platforms of the era would only be able to display the footage with heavy compression. No need to increase your production cost by filming it if it isn't going to bring any benefit to the end product.

And for it to ever look better then the best looking release for whatever title is in question, the original elements (If it was filmed) or tape would have to be available. And that is quite likely lost to time.

The only way it's going to ever be in true HD in the era these games were produced (1990-1995) was if it the FMV scenes were filmed and the film elements still exist. Both are highly unlikely.

[Enigmus]

Well, the Sonic CD footage was used for the PC version with higher resolution, so there's a possibility for the Sonic CD animation source. As for Night Trap, that was recorded on tape for Scene of the Crime for NEMO in 1987, so that's an upscale. The quality of Road Avenger seems to be digitized film, so that might be possible to remaster if found.

[Gameguy]

Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective was re-released on DVD with better quality video.

[Oldskool]

Night Trap was on the 3DO I believe, so that should be a pretty clear version of it. And like mentioned, it was made for a VHS based console at one time (that was never released), so at best you could watch it in VHS quality. Some VHS movies were re-mastered onto DVD, so I'm sure if someone wants to sit there frame by frame it could be done. Hell if they can re-master Alice in Wonderland into hi def they can do anything.

Sherlock Holmes, Dragon's Lair, Space Ace - a lot of those games were re-released on DVD.

Games like Road Avenger, Strahl (Triad Stone), and Cobra Command were originally laser disc based arcade games, so you know those can be watched at laser disc quality at best (Basically DVD quality).

Sewar Shark was another game that was supposed to be released on that VHS based console, so somewhere out there are VHS quality videos of it, which I'm sure someone can re-master.

Anything with FMV was recorded to tape at one point in time, so it's just a matter of someone sitting there and re-mastering it frame by frame which is a ton of work.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Footage for several Digital Pictures games was used in a made for TV movie that I own. The quality's a bit close to SP VHS, so there's a bit of artifacting. But it works.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

If it was videotaped like many prime time television shows were from the 70s onward and daytime television (Game shows, soap operas, etc.) were from ~1960 onwards, it's never going to be in high definition. The best that could be done is to upscale the transfers.

Seinfeld was filmed around the same time as the Sega CD stuff, and it was fuly remastered into high definition. Here's the description of the process:

"Sony Pictures cropped out the top and bottom parts of the frame, while restoring previously cropped images on the sides, from the 35 mm film source, to use the entire 16:9 frame."

So I wonder if any Sega CD stuff was filmed in 35 mm.

[Arcade Antics]

Seinfeld was filmed around the same time as the Sega CD stuff, and it was fuly remastered into high definition. Here's the description of the process:

"Sony Pictures cropped out the top and bottom parts of the frame, while restoring previously cropped images on the sides, from the 35 mm film source, to use the entire 16:9 frame."

So I wonder if any Sega CD stuff was filmed in 35 mm.

Comparing Seinfeld, one of the most highly successful (read: money making) TV shows of all time, with Sega CD FMV games is like comparing prime rib with... strange brother of prime rib.

Even if they could do it, they wouldn't. There's no money to be made.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Night Trap was on the 3DO I believe, so that should be a pretty clear version of it. And like mentioned, it was made for a VHS based console at one time (that was never released), so at best you could watch it in VHS quality. Some VHS movies were re-mastered onto DVD, so I'm sure if someone wants to sit there frame by frame it could be done. Hell if they can re-master Alice in Wonderland into hi def they can do anything.

Sherlock Holmes, Dragon's Lair, Space Ace - a lot of those games were re-released on DVD.

Games like Road Avenger, Strahl (Triad Stone), and Cobra Command were originally laser disc based arcade games, so you know those can be watched at laser disc quality at best (Basically DVD quality).

Sewar Shark was another game that was supposed to be released on that VHS based console, so somewhere out there are VHS quality videos of it, which I'm sure someone can re-master.

Anything with FMV was recorded to tape at one point in time, so it's just a matter of someone sitting there and re-mastering it frame by frame which is a ton of work.

Gosh, you really know your stuff. With Road Avenger, are you saying they took the arcade disc and stuffed it onto a Sega CD disc? And with Sewer Shark, are you saying there are no "negatives" to enhance, just basically VHS tape.

I read about this issue where somebody was describing Paramount's efforts to remaster Star Trek the Next Generation. Basically, the outside shots on the ship were shot on "video," therefore it is very hard to upgrade the images. Here's a piece from the article:

"One concern is the visual effects which were were done in video and therefore more difficult to translate to HD. The team is seeing if the effects can be ‘upresed’ or if they need to be entirely redone (as they did with TOS). "

I'm not sure if this relates to what you are saying. The usage of the term "video" in the statement kind of confuses me.

[Leo_A]

Some VHS movies were re-mastered onto DVD, so I'm sure if someone wants to sit there frame by frame it could be done. Hell if they can re-master Alice in Wonderland into hi def they can do anything.

They were shot with video cameras to video tapes, but that doesn't mean it's VHS. VHS was a consumer level video tape format and wasn't used professionally. They would've been shot on something like MII, Betacam, Type C, Type B, or even on older systems like 2" quad that was an industry standard for videotaping from the late 50s well into the 70s.

It's impossible to say what the resolution is as analog videotape has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts, but an NTSC TV signal archived on a 20 year old videotape is severely lacking in resolution by today's standards and is never going to look better then a 20 year old videotape can.

I'm unaware of any movies having been shot on any professional grade videotape. It was generally used from it's introduction at the very end of the 50s on daytime television like game shows, nightshows like Johnny Carson, for archiving news broadcast, commercials, etc. Then in the 70s it started to gain use in prime time programming as producers sacrificed image quality for lower production cost (Few examples of videotape use in prime time programs exists before 1970, with 6 episodes of the Twilight Zone being the only prime time programming I remember being videotaped). But it never made any inroads into Hollywood. The most it would've ever been used in Hollywood was probably for computer special effects, not for filming actors. Even the best professional videotape standard of decades past would've looked poor on a theater screen.

Something like Alice in Wonderland can be mastered in HD because they were filmed. That's means it's going to effectively be at a resolution even greater then 1080p, even though it's impossible to pinpoint exactly what the resolution of film is since it has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts. All Hollywood movies and most prime time television programs during the first 25 years of television can be transferred to HD (Which companies like CBS do when they do new transfers from original elements these days to prep programs for DVD and syndication) as long as film elements exists since they're already effectively at greater resolutions then even 1080p.



Anything with FMV was recorded to tape at one point in time, so it's just a matter of someone sitting there and re-mastering it frame by frame which is a ton of work.

Not on videotape. What you see is what you get, you can't restore/remaster something on magnetic media. And film restoration/remastering means things like washing the film elements to eliminate dirt and debris, color correction through filters to combat fading (Especially on color film from around 1955-1965) going back to the seperation masters like Disney did for several of their live action films like "The Parent Trap" prior to their DVD release, etc.

[Enigmus]

Comparing Seinfeld, one of the most highly successful (read: money making) TV shows of all time, with Sega CD FMV games is like comparing prime rib with... strange brother of prime rib.

Even if they could do it, they wouldn't. There's no money to be made.

By strange prime rib brother, do you mean McRib? LOL

Still, that's a bad comparison. A better one is a forgotten yet decent 80s animated film is like a Sega CD FMV game's footage in 35 mm.

Either way, if Road Avenger is 35 mm, hello spending the next decade or two remastering and then assembling a 4D rig just for Road Avenger.

EDIT: Orion Pimpdaddy, all the "HD" was was an option to stretch it to fit the 16:9 aspect and a 2xSai filter which, ironically, only makes it look good on a low-definition CRT.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Comparing Seinfeld, one of the most highly successful (read: money making) TV shows of all time, with Sega CD FMV games is like comparing prime rib with... strange brother of prime rib.

Even if they could do it, they wouldn't. There's no money to be made.

What about Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection? They upgraded 40 games to HD and put them all onto one disc. Certainly the process wasn't that expensive if they were able to do 40 games.

It seems to me Sega could dump some of the more classic FMV games onto virtual console or something. Like Night Trap Enhanced.

[Oldskool]

They were shot with video cameras to video tapes, but that doesn't mean it's VHS. VHS was a consumer level video tape format and wasn't used professionally. They would've been shot on something like MII, Betacam, Type C, Type B, or even on older systems like 2" quad that was an industry standard for videotaping from the late 50s well into the 70s.

It's impossible to say what the resolution is as analog videotape has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts, but an NTSC TV signal archived on a 20 year old videotape is severely lacking in resolution by today's standards and is never going to look better then a 20 year old videotape can.

I'm unaware of any movies having been shot on any professional grade videotape. It was generally used from it's introduction at the very end of the 50s on daytime television like game shows, nightshows like Johnny Carson, for archiving news broadcast, commercials, etc. Then in the 70s it started to gain use in prime time programming (Few examples of such use exists before 1970, with 6 episodes of the Twilight Zone being the only prime time programming I remember being videotaped). But it never made any inroads into Hollywood. The most it would've ever been used in Hollywood was probably for computer special effects, not for filming actors. Even the best professional videotape standard of decades past would've looked poor on a theater screen.

Something like Alice in Wonderland can be mastered in HD because they were filmed. That's means it's going to effectively be at a resolution even greater then 1080p, even though it's impossible to pinpoint exactly what the resolution of film is since it has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts.


It's impossible to say what the resolution is as analog videotape has no direct correlation to digital pixel counts, but an NTSC TV signal archived on a 20 year old videotape is severely lacking in resolution by today's standards and is never going to look better then a 20 year old videotape can.



Not on videotape. What you see is what you get, you can't restore/remaster something on magnetic media. And film restoration/remastering means things like washing the film elements to eliminate dirt and debris, color correction through filters to combat fading (Especially on color film from around 1955-1965 that was especially prone to fading, such as Disney films like "The Parent Trap"), etc.

Show's what I know! LOL

[Oldskool]

What about Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection? They upgraded 40 games to HD and put them all onto one disc. Certainly the process wasn't that expensive if they were able to do 40 games.

It seems to me Sega could dump some of the more classic FMV games onto virtual console or something. Like Night Trap Enhanced.

I think that's a bit different though. Because video games are already digital, and most of those are basically just roms that are being run through graphical filters. Hell running emulators with filters and roms on my laptop via VGA to my LCD screen makes it look Hi Def and there was no re-mastering involved at all.

[Leo_A]

What about Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection? They upgraded 40 games to HD and put them all onto one disc. Certainly the process wasn't that expensive if they were able to do 40 games.

It seems to me Sega could dump some of the more classic FMV games onto virtual console or something. Like Night Trap Enhanced.

Nothing is done to the games on Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection. It's the original code running through a emulator that replicates the functions of the Genesis on the Xbox 360 or Playstation 3.

Like Oldskool said, all the special effects are post processing effects that the emulator is applying to the image after it's rendered by the emulator before sending it to your television. The emulator is upscaling the games to HD resolutions (Not rendering them in HD, the game code is untouched) with optional effects like stretching the image, blurring it to try to smooth out the image if someone prefers that look, and so on that are available to the user if they desire to enable them.

And I should clarify that I was talking about theatrical movies in my earlier post. Many made for tv movies, such as a lot of the stuff Ernest Borgnine was starring in the during the 70s like "The Ghost of Flight 401", would've been videotaped and not filmed.

And of course during the Laserdisc era and even in the early days of DVD, sometimes we did get VHS transfers of Hollywood movies. But that's no reflection on how the original film was produced and distributed, just corporate lazyness and cheapness with a total disregard of the consumer and lack of respect for the original work.

And I can assure everyone that something like the FMV on Sonic CD wasn't filmed. Even major cartoons in the era weren't filmed, such as Fraggle Rock from a few years earlier (Although I imagine something meant for prime time like The Simpsons would've probably been filmed). But you can't compare a videogame intro to a major prime time network show like Seinfeld. There was nothing to gain from filming the Sonic CD intro since it was compressed quite a bit on the PC and Sega CD anyways for room for the audio tracks, and it would've just increased cost.

The laserdisc games of the early 80's like Dragon's Lair and Road Blaster/Road Avenger however, were typically filmed it seems. I know for certain at least that the Cinematronics titles (Dragon's Lair, Space Ace) were filmed and the original elements still exist. But graphical quality was of utmost importance in those cases so it made sense. On the cd platforms of the 1990s with heavy compression always applied and often redbook audio tracks taking up most of the space on a cd, FMV usually wasn't even anything like VHS quality. So they would never of significantly raised their production cost by filming it since there would've been zero benefit from doing it. Videotaping it was of higher picture quality then it was going to appear in the final product anyways.

But ignoring the long winded nature of my post, the moral of the story is if it was videotaped like the FMV in most every Sega CD/3do/Cdi/PC title of the first half of the 1990s was, it can never be in HD. The best that could ever be done is to upscale it to HD.

[MASTERWEEDO]

Could always refilm the FMVs in HD. I wonder what would take more time or money.

[Vlcice]

Gosh, you really know your stuff. With Road Avenger, are you saying they took the arcade disc and stuffed it onto a Sega CD disc? And with Sewer Shark, are you saying there are no "negatives" to enhance, just basically VHS tape.

Road Avenger was probably shot on 16mm film, like a lot of cheaper anime from the 80s. If that's the case, then it would probably produce a pretty decent HD transfer, assuming that the original prints even still exist. Dragon's Lair had an HD release by transferring from the original film, and I heard it turned out pretty good.

Most live-action stuff was probably shot on fairly cheap videotape to save cost, and I wouldn't be surprised if the original tapes don't exist anymore for a lot of them.

[Greg2600]

The original Transformers masters exist as video tape only, and always did. They were 4:3 as well, making any kind of HD version pointless.

The other consideration is that often special effects and post-production were done on video tape, even though the actors were shot on film. Converting to HD then requires new effects. It's the major reason Star Trek TNG isn't close to being released on Blu-Ray. And TNG had most of its effects shot on film. 90's shows like Babylon 5, Sliders, often used all digital effects, rendered in SD. That's likely what the FMV stuff was, making a transfer to HD pointless.

[chrisbid]

who owns the rights to the digital pictures catalog? are they still in business?

[Kiddo]

If I recall right, Road Avenger/Road Blaster and the like were animated by Toei, correct?

It'd probably be a good idea to check their track record for remastered footage, but the only thing I can really recall them releasing accessibly recently is the Dragon Ball Z "Dragon Box" sets (for a remastering) and Dragon Ball Z Kai (For using old footage to reversion a show.)

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

From reading the posts, the consensus is that most Sega CD FMV cannot be rendered in HD. Okay, we can conceed that, but they can still clean up the video, right? Doesn't a ton of the quality get lost when they transfer it onto the CD? So if the original source is still there, there's gotta be a way to transfer it without such a loss in clarity.

As for Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection, since it's an emulator reading the old code, I imagine this could be done with Sega CD as well, and make them look better. At least the non-FMV stuff.

[LiquidPolicenaut]

Well, the quality got lost in the Sega CD version only because of the limits of the Sega CD at the time, i.e. - color palette and screen size. As many have already said, many of these games are available on other platforms with better quality FMV like the following:

Time Gal, Road Avenger, Cobra Command, etc - They were originally LD games so the originally video is good already. You will also find ports on the PSX, Saturn and Laseractive but the first two have been compressed while the Laseractive version is pretty much exact to the arcade versions..

Night Trap - Best video quality is available on the PC or 3DO version..

Sonic CD - as stated already, it was released on the PC and the intro and ending can be viewed there as well as elsewhere in higher quality...

Sherlock Holmes Vol.1 and Dracula Unleashed were also released on the PC (and PC-E/TG-16 for Sherlock Homes) as well as being re-released on DVD and that's the best video quality you are gonna get on that (and its pretty damn good since I own both and can attest to it)

There are a few Sega CD games with FMV footage thats only available on the system like Cadillacs & Dinosaurs and the Adventures of Batman & Robin...

[Arcade Antics]

What about Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection? They upgraded 40 games to HD and put them all onto one disc. Certainly the process wasn't that expensive if they were able to do 40 games.
Big differences in process aside, the main point is: there's a demand for Sonic games. :)

[Kitsune Sniper]

who owns the rights to the digital pictures catalog? are they still in business?

SOMEONE has to own the rights.

The problem is finding out who.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Big differences in process aside, the main point is: there's a demand for Sonic games. :)

What about Flicky? They had that on there. Anyway, I think certain Sega CD games could attract some cash, such as a Night Trap, Sonic CD, etc.

[Leo_A]

From reading the posts, the consensus is that most Sega CD FMV cannot be rendered in HD. Okay, we can conceed that, but they can still clean up the video, right? Doesn't a ton of the quality get lost when they transfer it onto the CD?

Yes, it can be made to look significantly better. Most fmv in the early 90s was heavily compressed on home consoles and PC's. Even if it was taped and not filmed, a modern transfer of it will show a huge improvement in picture quality. And video that isn't HD quality (Which is what all of this was if it was taped) can even show a slight improvement with the same transfers just going from DVD to Blu-Ray due to less (Or even none) compression, especially if the transfers aren't upscaled. Even 40 year old 2" videotape will look better on a Blu-Ray disc due the improvement in lack of compression despite not being able to take advantage of the improvements in resolution Blu-Ray offers due to the nature of the original analog tape.

Of course for that improvement to be possible, that means the original tapes or film elements still have to exist and not have been missplaced or destroyed. And that's a big question mark right there. Many companies don't even handle preserving things like source code from their major releases very well (Such as Sega which is a well known example of that). And if the video and animation was outsourced (Which I suspect the Sonic CD intro was for example, I doubt Sega had the expertise for that in-house), it's possible the developer never even had the original tapes or film elements and they remained with the company that they partnered with for development.

By the way, if any of this stuff was actually filmed, it was likely on 16mm stock. There were many more 16mm cameras and equipment to work with on something like a FMV project for a game developer 15-30 years ago then 32mm. Using television for example, most syndication prints (Such as television programs like I Love Lucy, My Three Sons, Gunsmoke, and movies) going to your local stations for reruns, if they weren't a recent show and weren't on tape, they would've been 16mm prints because that's what everyone's local station would've had and the equipment was cheaper then 32mm.

Everyone in the video business had 16mm equipment, not everyone had 32mm. 32mm would've been a slight step up in cost with far less compatible equipment available to work with it. Also suggesting 16mm if something was actually filmed, due to the nature of platforms like the Sega CD and the media used, the increased picture quality 32mm yielded wouldn't of shown through with the final product anyways. 32mm usually was reserved for the original filming of Hollywood movies and prime time television shows, with just the original negatives, master print, and the separation masters if any were made being in 32mm and preserved in a film vault.

[Oldskool]

Wow, did you go to film school?

[Leo_A]

I did engineering and then business actually. :)

I spend too much time on sites dealing with classic television shows and movies from the golden age of Hollywood. You learn a lot if you spend much time at sites dedicated to classic video media like the Home Theater Forum. And I have a fascination for obsolete technology.

[dnehthend]

if they were shot on film they could always be rescanned

my guess is that most of them were shot with vhsc camcorders that say "sears" on the side... those games had such terrible production values

[jb143]

Could always refilm the FMVs in HD. I wonder what would take more time or money.

I'm (almost)surprized that no one has done that for Laser Disc games. Doing a fan film shot-for-shot remake of Dragon's Lair for example. I don't think the the cabinet or emulator wouldn't know the difference and it would be quite hilarious.LOL

[Tokimemofan]

Short answer:NO
Long Answer:...
First you need to know the source so let's assume the worst case scenario that the game must become your source. If you have a NASA budget the answer is a good probably, a lot of time and hand editing will make it work too. But I don't think most of us have a NASA budget, so I think that might be a problem don't you?

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, the Sonic CD footage was used for the PC version with higher resolution
If I'm not mistaken, we're still talking about broadcast resolution there. In any case PCs of the era were not up to HDTV resolution.

If you have a NASA budget the answer is a good
...NO, once again, because Nasa can't even host a lunch with its budget anymore. Last I checked they've been cut but good, and are considering which of their primary missions to cut...

Although what Leo says is true, in the big picture. (I take issue with some of the details though...)

Even VHS is a major step up from Sega CD quality animation, or early PC FMV (think Bink / Smacker).


would've been 16mm prints because that's what everyone's local station would've had and the equipment was cheaper then 32mm.
You mean 35mm. Too much time with "the vidyas" (games), man!

I'm guessing, but the primary reasons for going with 16mm ought to have been the film's cost, and cheaper lenses, and smaller units all-around. 16mm film is considerably narrower than 35mm, meaning you get a lot more frames per foot. It also weighs a lot less, again by the foot, which ought to mean your operator can carry on a while longer before changes, or hand-hold those takes of Hill Street Blues without getting shaky (I've read they filmed that series in 16mm Arriflex hand-held cameras). 16mm lenses don't have to cover as much of an image circle as 35mm lenses, either, so they ought to be lighter and smaller if my experience from film and digital cameras is true.

In practice a lot of the space on 35mm films gets wasted (some are anamorphically stretched later on and have a portion of the actual frame used to hold an image of the soundtrack data's waveform, look at Wikipedia for an example), but again, yeah it ain't cheap.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

...NO, once again, because Nasa can't even host a lunch with its budget anymore. Last I checked they've been cut but good, and are considering which of their primary missions to cut...



There have been some high profiles cancellations of certain projects, but Nasa's overall budget is actually being increased in 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Budget

[Compute]

But NASA might only be interested in space-themed games. So we'll have Space Ace, Ground Zero Texas, and maybe a few others? I suppose Tomcat Alley and the flight-themed ones could fit in there, too.

[Compute]

I like the suggestion of making new video entirely. For a few years I've been bouncing around ideas for FMV games, but nothing ever sticks.

[Jorpho]

Night Trap was on the 3DO I believe, so that should be a pretty clear version of it.
...
Sewar Shark was another game that was supposed to be released on that VHS based consoleSewer Shark was also on the 3DO.


Could always refilm the FMVs in HD. I wonder what would take more time or money.Even with cut-rate actors, refilming is absurdly expensive.


I'm (almost)surprized that no one has done that for Laser Disc games. Doing a fan film shot-for-shot remake of Dragon's Lair for example. I don't think the the cabinet or emulator wouldn't know the difference and it would be quite hilarious.LOLDragon's Lair has been released over and over and over again ever since its release. I think in its most recent incarnation they went all the way back to the original negatives, which they evidently retained in this case.

[GarrettCRW]

If an FMV game used animation, those segments were shot on film. The thing is, were those animated segments edited together on film, or on video? The final edits for cartoons like G.I. Joe and The Transformers and live action shows like the new Twilight Zone and Star Trek: TNG only exist on video, for instance. Since the Bluth LaserDisc games were older (and Bluth obsessed with doing animation the "right way"), it's no shocker that the finished animation there exists on film.

And even if the film exists, it could very well exist only as 16mm, which has less resolution that 35mm. In fact, it's standard in Japanese animation to use 16mm, but the US studios have always demanded 35mm. Live-action for TV is a different matter, as until the '80s, tape was used almost exclusively by sitcoms, talk shows, news, sports, and variety shows.

[Enigmus]

If I'm not mistaken, we're still talking about broadcast resolution there. In any case PCs of the era were not up to HDTV resolution.

What I actually meant by it being high-resolution is that it was a major jump from the nice looking but still washed out and flat looking Sega CD video. If anything, the version of the video from Sonic Mega Collection could possibly be ripped out of the game files and be the highest resolution version that people can watch. With Sega's management and the factor they were willing to destroy an entire room of prototype game discs for Dreamcast and the factor they lost the source code to the Sonic games (their most popular franchise) on Mega Drive, I'm still surprised that they didn't destroy the negatives for the animation or get the company they outsourced it to to destroy it.

Also, since Night Trap was originally planned for the VHS-based NEMO, it is likely they filmed this on standard 16 mm film, seeing as buying many VHS tapes just for the purpose of a multi-tracked game on a upstart VHS based system would be expensive depending on the quality of the tapes, and because of the amount of filming required for the game. If it were recorded on tapes, then the quality now would be at least restorable to a level acceptable for S-Video, seeing as it has been over 30 years since it was first filmed, and there is no clue where the source video is at.

[Leo_A]

You mean 35mm. Too much time with "the vidyas" (games), man!

Was I calling it 32mm? Thanks, I guess I spend too much at videogame sites and somehow the number 32 is more natural to type then 35.


If an FMV game used animation, those segments were shot on film.

Are you sure of that? Tons of childrens programming were videotaped during the 80s and 90s. I'm no animation expert, but I always assumed a decent amount of animation during that period was also videotaped just like shows like Fraggle Rock, Sesame Street, Kids Incorporated, and many others were. Of course those were all live action.

I just always assumed it would've also extended to low budget animation outside of something like a Disney production during the 80s and 90s. Is there a technical reason why animation would've been filmed even with small budgets?

[dendawg]

...they lost the source code to the Sonic games (their most popular franchise) on Mega Drive...


Not to get too far off topic, but couldn't they just use a 68000 disassembler to get most of the source back?

[Leo_A]

Not to get too far off topic, but couldn't they just use a 68000 disassembler to get most of the source back?

I know next to nothing about programming, but I think they can get the code back from anything. I think what's lost when you hear about something like Sega having lost the source code to a particular title is the annotations explaining what's going on.

Without those, you have a time consuming reverse engineering job to understand what's going on in the code, even with something like a 2600 title.

Of course, that's just what I've gathered from visiting places like this over the years. I know virtually nothing about programming so I could easily have assumed incorrectly.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm no animation expert, but I always assumed a decent amount of animation during that period was also videotaped just like shows like Fraggle Rock, Sesame Street, Kids Incorporated, and many others were. Of course those were all live action.
Well, how would you animate using tape? I'm not sure about frame-by-frame capability of tape recorders, but it's necessary for animation. Some stuff, like the Math Man segment of Square One Television, looks to me like it was put together on a cheap graphics computer. Would be interesting to check out.

[GarrettCRW]

I just always assumed it would've also extended to low budget animation outside of something like a Disney production during the 80s and 90s. Is there a technical reason why animation would've been filmed even with small budgets?

Animation is shot frame by frame, and most of the effects (lasers, headlights, transparent images) being the result of the camera operator literally cranking the film backwards to create one complete exposure from two partial exposures (one with and without effects, or doubling parts of the frame that need to glow). It's simply not possible to do this using video cameras without, at the bare minimum, losing a great deal of picture quality, to say nothing of the issues with re-takes.

What many animation studios did starting in the '80s (a notable exception being Filmation, who handled all production in America) was to use 1" video tapes as the final masters. Sunbow shows, for instance, received their first-take reels, reviewed them, then ordered re-takes as necessary and according to the budget. Once the re-takes arrived, that footage would be spliced together, and then given a telecine transfer, and title cards would be added in post production. Originally, Sunbow shows were cut and spliced with guillotine splicers and attached with a special tape (which led to characteristic leading and trailing splice marks that made it easy to figure out where re-takes had been ordered). Depending on the episode, the previews and recaps for multipart episodes would either be shot fresh by the overseas studio, or spliced together in America using duplicate negatives from the previous and/or next episode.

Later, Sunbow ditched the tape for actual film glue, and started making edits on video: cropping, slowing down footage (the entire second Act of the Transformers episode "War Dawn" was slowed down from the originally filmed version because it was too short due to something removed from the script), pans, truck-ins, freeze-frames, and even looping footage. Later shows (Animaniacs, Batman: TAS, the '90s Spider-Man, etc.) followed suit and expanded the use of video until computers assumed many of the tasks video editing did (and a significant amount of the tasks that traditional effects animation did).

[Ed Oscuro]

Thanks for filling in those details, GarrettCRW! Very interesting.

[Leo_A]

Well, how would you animate using tape?

I don't know, that's why I asked.

I'm not knowledgeable at all about the technical aspects of animation and the processes going on to achieve it beyond being aware of what a multiplane camera is.

I just always assumed there was a low budget process to utilize videotape in place of film beyond just for final editing and for the master. It gained such a wide acceptance in television production, even in prime time networking, where I just assumed it had made more significant inroads in animation then it apparantly did.

Thanks GarrettCRW