Kinect pricing official, plus bundles

[Icarus Moonsight]

Open source PSP? Um... No. Everything about the PSP is, and has been, protected and proprietary -- from the beginning. It's necessary to overcome or circumvent the installed barriers to convert it to an open source platform. It was designed to be anything but open source.

All of Sony's systems [that I've owned] have been easy to run pirated stuff on (IDK about PS3), and Sony was #1 in sales for how long during that?

I think what you're talking about is very interesting, and the "what" has validity, but the conclusions you're drawing here are off from a cogent explanation of the "why".

UMD media was roundly rejected... That did not help matters. They're also fragile little things. Someone that breaks enough of the cases is just going to say, "Screw it all!" and order a pandora battery or pay someone off craigslist $20 to get the mod done.

The fact of prolific DS flashcarts have to be considered as well, along with the strong sales of some DS retail games.

This isn't really that much off-topic (general pricing). Economic reasons are probably the best argument one could make for why some people opt for software piracy. Could use it's own thread if talked about any further.

/resume Kinect failing thread

[chicnstu]

Ignorance ignorance.

Hate hate.

[kupomogli]

Apparently Kinect has some major issues. I got this from VGChartz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3lhpVp3LLA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v01bm9iLtAI
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/110/1108080p1.html

On the first Youtube video it crashes at the end and on the second video the actions aren't always recognized so the runners on screen start and stop.

According to IGN, almost every game they've played didn't work properly.

I guess it's not worth $150 after all. This is actually the exact same thing that happened when the 360 was first announced. The 360 actually crashed during its showing. I have a feeling Microsoft will still release this and people are going to have repeated issues.

[Enigmus]

Apparently Kinect has some major issues. I got this from VGChartz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3lhpVp3LLA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v01bm9iLtAI
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/110/1108080p1.html

On the first Youtube video it crashes at the end and on the second video the actions aren't always recognized so the runners on screen start and stop.

According to IGN, almost every game they've played didn't work properly.

I guess it's not worth $150 after all. This is actually the exact same thing that happened when the 360 was first announced. The 360 actually crashed during its showing. I have a feeling Microsoft will still release this and people are going to have repeated issues.

The Microsoft curse. Something they do is successful, peaks, has a nearly straight line of a nosedive in perfection, and then going back to normal. Just look at Windows and how it went from "XP's great" to "Vista is shit" to "7's okay" for proof.

[Dobie]

Curious to know if the camera flashes were interfering with Kinect's ability to track objects, or if its a sign of a larger flaw. Obviously, Kinect isn't necessarily designed with a convention environment in mind, so things like ambient noise and lights flashing could indeed cause problems that would not be replicated in a home setting.

Ambient noise issues would definitely put a damper on trying to hold a Kinect party--which was a big word of mouth sales plus for the Wii. A great party console will sell hardware. If its glitchy and has issues in even a louder than normal room, it wouldn't have the same impressive effect on potential casual buyers.

[WCP]

I would really like Kinect to be good, but unfortunately, I think it might be a serious dud. The first thing that bothers me, is that they are selling it for such a huge price, despite the fact that they removed a key processing chip from the original design. The theory when they did, is that they wanted to get under $100, yet we still have this $149.99 price.

I can say one thing, Microsoft is pretty brazen to be attempting a stunt like this with such seemingly faulty hardware. They obviously think they have a base of consumers that will swallow whatever they deliver. Maybe they are supply-constrained? Might as well overcharge for the thing, if you know you're not going to have enough to go around in the first place. As a consumer, I'm pissed about the price, but from a business standpoint, it isn't too horrible a strategy. They have a large contingent of early adopters that should snap these up with the appropriate hype and commercials. Then, next spring they can drop the price to $99 and get an additional category of adopters.

[Trumpman]

Am I the only one who's sick of companies trying to jam motion control BS down our throats? I have less than no interest in buying Kinect.

[portnoyd]

You're not.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I can say one thing, Microsoft is pretty brazen to be attempting a stunt like this with such seemingly faulty hardware.

Ok, now you're trolling. You gotta be. It's too, dare I say, brazen. LOL

That's the double edge of motion control though. Make it the control standard and you have a greater chance at success with it (while even succeeding you have to have traditional controls as an option and that exposes risk and vulnerability), while if you make motion control an extra option and you just reduced that chance by a large margin. The theoretical magic bullet here is the design of an input device that does both in a single unit and doesn't inflate cost too much and is functional and ergonomic. Sony tried at it and screwed the pooch... All six asses.

[WCP]

Ok, now you're trolling. You gotta be. It's too, dare I say, brazen. LOL



I assume you're joking, but basically what I meant by that statement, is that Microsoft has some serious balls to have this seemingly glitchy product, yet they seem to think that it's no worries at all, because they are pricing the thing like they expect Kinect to sell itself, and be the hottest Xmas item of the season.

I give them serious credit for this ballsy attempt. If it works, they will look like geniuses. If it doesn't they can still lower the price.

[Dobie]

I assume you're joking, but basically what I meant by that statement, is that Microsoft has some serious balls to have this seemingly glitchy product, yet they seem to think that it's no worries at all, because they are pricing the thing like they expect Kinect to sell itself, and be the hottest Xmas item of the season.

I give them serious credit for this ballsy attempt. If it works, they will look like geniuses. If it doesn't they can still lower the price.

*puts on flame-proof suit* It worked for Apple with iPhone 4.0. *runs away*

[XYXZYZ]

Man, I still haven't gotten into first person shooters. All I can see with this motion stuff is that gaming is getting farther and farther away from me... :(

*goes back into his 16-bit cave and plays Bonk's Adventure*

[Icarus Moonsight]

I've felt that way throughout this whole generation.


I assume you're joking.

You'd be correct sir! Especially since, "Microsoft has endeavored to bring you faulty and unreliable hardware since 2005!" may as well be their game department's mission statement objective.

Why this all has frustrated me;

Around April/May of last year, I was starting to think seriously about buying a 360 hearing that the new hardware rev in the Pro/Elites were finally substantially improved. Then they unveil Project Natal, so I put that off. I saw it as a very good reason to wait, considering the inevitable bundle and it seemed like a solid plan to wait a little longer and have the full experience out-of-box on day 1... Then they neuter Kinect/Natal, while having introduced the slim model 360... So, back to square one for me. Waiting to see if the slim hardware is full of fail until it gets "fixed" like the others. I haven't checked prices on modded 360's since the last big MW2 Live ban... But I'm starting to think that I should. Buy two or three of them and just play/repair them in rotation.

Visualize this:

Genesis/SCD/32X next to 360/HD-DVD/Kinect

Been there, done that, payed way too much the first time. Lesson learned.

[Trumpman]

Visualize this:

Genesis/SCD/32X next to 360/HD-DVD/Kinect

Been there, done that, payed way too much the first time. Lesson learned.

But the similarity also extends to the fact that the 360 and Genesis were/are both good systems. The lesson is to not to buy the add-ons, not cutting yourself off completely from a good system. The 360, especially the slim, is definitely worth it. Say what you will about Microsoft, but they've done an extremely good job at replacing broken systems.

[DonMarco]

Man, I still haven't gotten into first person shooters. All I can see with this motion stuff is that gaming is getting farther and farther away from me...
There was an episode of House last season that had this video game designer get sick. The survival horror FPS video game he was working on used video goggles, gun controllers, and read the player's movement (walking, ducking) and translated that to the game. Episode was called "Epic Fail".

I'm positive Activision will squeeze out a Kinect Call of Duty FPS game before too long.

[Icarus Moonsight]

But the similarity also extends to the fact that the 360 and Genesis were/are both good systems. The lesson is to not to buy the add-ons, not cutting yourself off completely from a good system. The 360, especially the slim, is definitely worth it. Say what you will about Microsoft, but they've done an extremely good job at replacing broken systems.

Yes, hence all the frustration. Personally, I don't think the 360 is even as good as the Genesis was (both being compared in their prime). I still play Genny stuff quite a bit, so I'll be fine taking on the 360 later especially since I couldn't care less about online console gaming. The big difference is my original model 1 Genny still works and has never had problems... Hell, my model 1 SCD still works and it was my only home CD-player for years, plus used regularly for gaming.

Thinking forward, I could probably buy a Kinect thinger at Gamestop for $10 by the time I get around to it. Probably sometime next year. LOL

[Nightram]

Not really excited about the Wiinnabe Kinect. The offerings at E3 have all already been done on Wii (whether they're better or worse seems irrelevant), and it was almost embarrassing to watch as it was SO close to the Wii demo at E3 2006.
I also hear it was rushed just like the original 360 hardware. We all know how well THAT worked.
I see a bevy of videos with concerns like crashing and not registering users, and even Fallon's demo was wrought with lag. Still, these were all beta machines and games.
Many blogs have been voicing concerns with other people in the room ruining single-player play by either entering the field of vision and having the game try to register them (how distracting!) or yelling, "Xbox stop!" for the voice controls.
Still, any hype is good hype before it comes out. We'll just have to wait and see how it actually performs in homes. Hopefully Microsoft will address these concerns, but it seems to be a mounting list and there may not be enough time to perfect it before launch.
I just don't see it doing well with the $450 entry fee. $300 console, $150 Kinect, and $60 game would actually put it at about $510 for brand new families wanting a specific game that isn't the pack-in. Tough to beat when the Wii with Wii Sports AND Wii Sports Resort PLUS Wii Motion Plus and nunchuck goes for less than half that1

Sony has a similar model, but they aren't going after the same demographic. Microsoft wants the casual Wii crowd to come over to their side, but the key to the Nintendo Wii business plan was the low cost. Move seems like the grown-up Wii, where Kinect looks like the not-as-good Xerox copy. Interesting that all the companies are still interested as pretty much all gamers are tired of motion control. Still, if either one can do it better, I may get excited again.

[Dobie]

http://gizmodo.com/5604308/deep-inside-xbox-360-kinect-the-interface-of-microsofts-dreams

Saw this article, thought it was interesting and added to the discussion. Also includes the first pics I've seen of Kinect's guts, as well as some tidbits about the design and challenges MS has had with the device.

[NPLgamer]

I think the move is going to have some appeal, the kinnect is going to suck really hard.

[Bojay1997]

http://gizmodo.com/5604308/deep-inside-xbox-360-kinect-the-interface-of-microsofts-dreams

Saw this article, thought it was interesting and added to the discussion. Also includes the first pics I've seen of Kinect's guts, as well as some tidbits about the design and challenges MS has had with the device.

I think the section about how a fully working device with this technology currently costs $10K-$150K in the real world is very instructive. I am convinced there is no way Microsoft has gotten anywhere close to that level of sophistication in a $150 device given my experience playing it and most of the games at E3 and at the Microsoft Store.

[NomadGamer]

Am I the only one who's sick of companies trying to jam motion control BS down our throats? I have less than no interest in buying Kinect.

I definitely share that sentiment. I don't have much interest in motion control. I enjoy using controllers, having nothing but another box staring at me jumping around like an idiot doesn't appeal.

I feel about the same with it as i do the 3D TV's. HD hasn't even been fully adopted yet. I don't know. Maybe i'm just getting old and resistant to new technology lol.

[NPLgamer]

I definitely share that sentiment. I don't have much interest in motion control. I enjoy using controllers, having nothing but another box staring at me jumping around like an idiot doesn't appeal.

I feel about the same with it as i do the 3D TV's. HD hasn't even been fully adopted yet. I don't know. Maybe i'm just getting old and resistant to new technology lol.

I agree with the motion stuff The wii is my least favorite Nintendo system because of the motion controls I do not like them. But the 3D stuff is incredible and is the future of gaming, i've played a few games in 3D and it's simply amazing to me. It immerses you in a way you never thought possible. I wish it just wasn't so expensive but it really is incredible.

[Bojay1997]

I agree with the motion stuff The wii is my least favorite Nintendo system because of the motion controls I do not like them. But the 3D stuff is incredible and is the future of gaming, i've played a few games in 3D and it's simply amazing to me. It immerses you in a way you never thought possible. I wish it just wasn't so expensive but it really is incredible.

Well, the fact that a significant portion of the population can't wear 3D glasses without getting a headache and a significiant number of the rest of us just don't like the added eye strain indicates to me that 3D is not in fact the future. There was an interesting piece on NPR a few weeks back about how human vision is somewhat 2D in nature and that what has traditionally been called "3D" in entertainment mediums is not how the human eye and brain process the world which is why it always looks fake and causes eye strain and headaches.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Well, the fact that a significant portion of the population can't wear 3D glasses without getting a headache and a significiant number of the rest of us just don't like the added eye strain indicates to me that 3D is not in fact the future. There was an interesting piece on NPR a few weeks back about how human vision is somewhat 2D in nature and that what has traditionally been called "3D" in entertainment mediums is not how the human eye and brain process the world which is why it always looks fake and causes eye strain and headaches.

This. I do not mind motion controls, they have to work and add to the experience though. Standard controls can be broken and cripple gameplay too. Now, 3D-TVs can go die in the God-forest with the Na'vi for all I care.

[NPLgamer]

I didn't realize people hated 3D so much, it's amazing to me. But i have not used it enough to see if it gave me headaches. I've never got headaches from 3d movies i've seen.

[Bojay1997]

I didn't realize people hated 3D so much, it's amazing to me. But i have not used it enough to see if it gave me headaches. I've never got headaches from 3d movies i've seen.

I just don't think it adds much to the experience, it's expensive and aside from the health concerns, there is the hassle of dealing with the glasses and the fact that it makes casual TV viewing a lot less practical. Also, watching a two hour movie in a theater is a lot different than playing up close to a TV for several hours on a video game. To me it's kind of like IMAX. The first ten minutes are amazing, but then you get used to it and it looks like every other movie you've ever seen and you start to wonder why you spent $18 to see a movie you could have seen for $10.

[Diatribal Deity]

All the "predictions" aside. The success of Kinect on Xbox 360 ultimately will probably have little to do with its eventual true overall impact. Sure it is an attempt to boost a bit of video game market share, but ultimately this is more of testing of the waters for potential video conferencing down the road.

Think of this as extended R&D for the technology behind the device. Development cost of each Kinect unit is rumored to be $150 which means after all else is factored in, Microsoft will not make any profit on its individual sale. Yeah, if they sell some gimmicky games they may end up breaking even or making a slight profit.

I remember when Xbox originally launched, Microsoft's only intent was to capture a small share of the lucrative video game market in the long term. They were very aware it would be a rocky road, but new profits would come later. They have a long term approach to everything.

If you are looking at the initial success or failure you are not looking at the whole picture. Ultimately the technology behind Kinect may have very little impact on gaming, but lead to a nice profit as the technology is used in the boardroom and other applications in the future. The small pockets of the average consumer cannot compare to the deep pockets of businesses. To think this whole Kinect overall strategy was not thought out, would not be giving Microsoft (a pretty profitable and successful company) much credit.

I welcome any and all technological releases, as chances are the initial use ultimately will probably not be its legacy. Failure is an option for Microsoft, a company already known to take some pretty big chances.

[Bojay1997]

All the "predictions" aside. The success of Kinect on Xbox 360 ultimately will probably have little to do with its eventual true overall impact. Sure it is an attempt to boost a bit of video game market share, but ultimately this is more of testing of the waters for potential video conferencing down the road.

Think of this as extended R&D for the technology behind the device. Development cost of each Kinect unit is rumored to be $150 which means after all else is factored in, Microsoft will not make any profit on its individual sale. Yeah, if they sell some gimmicky games they may end up breaking even or making a slight profit.

I remember when Xbox originally launched, Microsoft's only intent was to capture a small share of the lucrative video game market in the long term. They were very aware it would be a rocky road, but new profits would come later. They have a long term approach to everything.

If you are looking at the initial success or failure you are not looking at the whole picture. Ultimately the technology behind Kinect may have very little impact on gaming, but lead to a nice profit as the technology is used in the boardroom and other applications in the future. The small pockets of the average consumer cannot compare to the deep pockets of businesses. To think this whole Kinect overall strategy was not thought out, would not be giving Microsoft (a pretty profitable and successful company) much credit.

I welcome any and all technological releases, as chances are the initial use ultimately will probably not be its legacy. Failure is an option for Microsoft, a company already known to take some pretty big chances.

I'm guessing you don't actually work in an office because video conferencing is widely available, has been for quite a few years, is now fairly inexpensive and frankly, Kinect has nothing to do with moving that technology forward. Similarly, plenty of people own inexpensive home web cams and iPhones that can do easy personal video conferencing for far less than the cost of Kinect.

Kinect is and always has been an attempt to catch up and try to beat Nintendo in the casual motion control market. While Microsoft has the money to risk on certain things, it took them almost a decade to squeeze any profit out of the Xbox hardware. You're right that this is just the first iteration of the technology for gaming and it could lead to other non-gaming uses down the road, but if it doesn't succeed, Microsoft has shown throughout its history that it is perfectly willing to abandon it and never do anything with it again. Heck, they just wasted millions launching the Kin and just as quickly pulled the plug. Microsoft is not always as savvy as they would have you believe.

[Diatribal Deity]

I'm guessing you don't actually work in an office because video conferencing is widely available, has been for quite a few years, is now fairly inexpensive and frankly, Kinect has nothing to do with moving that technology forward. Similarly, plenty of people own inexpensive home web cams and iPhones that can do easy personal video conferencing for far less than the cost of Kinect.

Kinect is and always has been an attempt to catch up and try to beat Nintendo in the casual motion control market. While Microsoft has the money to risk on certain things, it took them almost a decade to squeeze any profit out of the Xbox hardware. You're right that this is just the first iteration of the technology for gaming and it could lead to other non-gaming uses down the road, but if it doesn't succeed, Microsoft has shown throughout its history that it is perfectly willing to abandon it and never do anything with it again. Heck, they just wasted millions launching the Kin and just as quickly pulled the plug. Microsoft is not always as savvy as they would have you believe.

As a matter of fact I work in an extremely large office building. But regardless, that is not the point. Tens of billions of dollars will be spent on video conferencing equipment over say the next 3-5 years. Who knows if any of this technology will capture a significant portion of that. But you know what, it does not have to. Capturing a small portion would suit them just fine. And the last time I checked Microsoft is the most profitable technology company by a pretty healthy margin even with Apple surging as it has (it generated probably a little more than 1/3 of the net revenue that Microsoft did for the last fiscal reporting year).

Microsoft's cash and short term (read liquid) investments of $40 billion dwarfs most companies (almost doubles Apple's). Just like an investment portfolio, companies need to diversify. This is just another attempt by Microsoft to do just that albeit a bit of a gamble. Believe me Microsoft hedges it's bets. For the most part it is still using the house's money.

Again I look forward to any new technology or application regardless of the company. I do not play favorites. And regardless of the track record and abandonment rate you cannot question the aggregate success.

For a more humorous although-not-entirely far-fetched look at future applications for the technology check out the following article:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/geekend/?p=5102

[kedawa]

What's the point of video conferencing anyway? Unless there's some kind of power point integration or something, I don't see how it adds anything useful to the experience.

[DonMarco]

What's the point of video conferencing anyway? Unless there's some kind of power point integration or something, I don't see how it adds anything useful to the experience.
Control, professionalism, new technology. With a phone conference you don't know what the participants are doing. They may be listening, taking notes. They may be watching Tom and Jerry while eating a pizza with the phone taped to their ear. They may have their assistant manager listening in their place while they go to the bathroom, then grab some lunch.

With video conferences, you know what the person is wearing and what their body or facial language is saying. A bonus if speaking to someone using a second or third language. It's cheaper than flying around to other cities and other countries. Maybe not a problem if you make one corporate trip a year, but for a manager that flies all over the place daily, the cost of setting up video conferencing technology in two places is tremendously cheaper.

Lastly! Video over IP is a big thing now. Who here doesn't remember the first time you used Skype to talk to your grandfather who lives 1200 miles away from you? Or saw your wife while stationed overseas? Or checked in on your spouse/pets/children with home security cameras while sitting at work? Or your first game of Strip Uno on Xbox Live?

[duffmanth]

I've hated this whole motion sensing since thing since the Wii first launched. It was fun for about the first week playing Wii Sports and a few other games, but the Wii just doesn't have enough games that truly takes advantage of the motion sensing feature. The same thing is going to make or break Kinect and Move. If MS and Sony don't release enough games that use each of their systems motion sensing capabilities to 100%, they're gonna flop.

[The 1 2 P]

I finally got a Kinect thanks to an amazing find at a local Goodwill(the whole story can be found in the "January Finds" thread). My initial reaction to it is that of astonishment. It really is cool not to have to hold a controller or to navigate the dashboard and videos with nothing but the sound of your voice. And luckily mine came with the Kinect Adventures game so I didn't even need to buy an extra game to try it out.

As for those games, I've downloaded and played several demos as well as Kinect Adventures. It's definitely a different type of gaming experience, one that you need to get use to before you can fully enjoy it. KA is essencially a big collection of mini games that serve their purpose to demonstrate the functionality of Kinect. Joy Ride, on the other hand, would have been alot more fun with an actual controller. It definitely takes some practice getting use to the driving mechanics and you will never feel like a bigger retard than when you play that game. It even takes random picturs of you(as do all of the games, even the demos) to remind you of how silly you look. But if you have no shame in your game than that won't matter.

Kinect is pretty fun for a novelty and I'm sure when I finally get around to inviting friends over to show it off they are all going to want one. But what I'm really excited for now is it's potential. Hopefully there will be some core games thrown in to the 2011 line up and I really want them to better utilize the ability to scan in items. Furthermore, theres alot more that they can do with the voice command controls beyond navigating the dashboard and I want them to get creative with that(like having an XBLA game show game where you answer with your voice).

I definitely see why it sold so well during the holidays but Microsoft needs to not rest on their laurels. They need to keep trying to make this thing better by adding more compelling games and more indepth features. Otherwise it will fade away into obscurity.

[WCP]

One thing that is going to be interesting in regards to Kinect, is going to be how many Kinects are sold in it's "2nd" 60 days of availability. We all know that Kinect "supposedly" sold 8 million worldwide in it's first 60 days of availability. I honestly wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Kinect's sales drop 80 percent or more in January and February.

Let's face it, it was the Tickle Me Elmo of 2010. Once Xmas had come and gone, I just don't think the impetus was there anymore for people to rush out and buy it. I'm sure it probably got some decent sales in the first 10 days after Xmas because of gift cards and such, but I would expect sales to really fall off a cliff. The only way that Microsoft could keep the momentum going with Kinect, is a lot more advertising, and another big game besides Dance Central. Unfortunately for Microsoft, I don't think it has any significant Kinect games coming in the next 4 to 5 months. It's going to be quite a wait for something to come out on Kinect that could spur more buyers into the stores. Kinect might end up being one of those right time, right places type of products that explode in popularity one minute, and then just completely disappear from the scene the next minute.

[kupomogli]

If MS and Sony don't release enough games that use each of their systems motion sensing capabilities to 100%, they're gonna flop.

If Kinect didn't sell another system it still wouldn't be considered a flop but that all depends on if they've made any money off it or not yet.

I know that the thing is selling 360s. At lunch during work yesterday, one of my supervisors said that after playing the Kinect at his sister's house a few times that he bought a 360, Kinect, and also bought an HDTV to hook it up to.

Just like the Wii the Kinect is another thing casual gamers will love. Unlike the Wiimote however, the Kinect and Move are fairly precise.

[The 1 2 P]

One thing that is going to be interesting in regards to Kinect, is going to be how many Kinects are sold in it's "2nd" 60 days of availability. We all know that Kinect "supposedly" sold 8 million worldwide in it's first 60 days of availability. I honestly wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Kinect's sales drop 80 percent or more in January and February.


While I'm sure theres going to be a drop off, I'm most surprised that it sold so well during the holidays and yet none of the stores around here(Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc.) ever sold out for more than a few days. There was always stock available to purchase and if there wasn't there would be the next day.

I originally knew that both Kinect and Move would do well during the holidays because they were new hardware released during the most crucial buying period of the year. But now the real guessing game begins. Like I said in my earlier post Micorsoft needs to drop some bombs about new Kinect software coming this year. E3 seems like the appropriate place for that but it's not like they can't give us alittle something something before then.

[WCP]

E3 seems like the appropriate place for that but it's not like they can't give us a little something something before then.

They can't wait all the way till e3. They need to show something impressive at GDC. Something... very... Impressive.

[The 1 2 P]

Halo Kinect may be coming afterall (http://www.cheatcc.com/ccc_newsserver/Article.aspx?PostID=377996).