Microsoft Threatened By Hackers [Archive]

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IntvGene

07-01-2003, 11:04 AM

It's not easy being Microsoft. Everybody wants to take a shot at you...

There's an interesting article on ZDnet Australia:
http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/security/story/0,2000048600,20275810-1,00.htm

I guess a group is claiming that they can run Linux on an unmodded Xbox and will go public with the information if Microsoft doesn't release a Linux boot disc. This technique isn't really new, as we heard about it before, but the threat is. Will Microsoft do anything about it?

Zaxxon

07-01-2003, 11:59 AM

Umm... who cares about running Linux on the Xbox? Why bother? You can just run it on any PC now. What's the point?

AB Positive

07-01-2003, 12:22 PM

Simple, XBOX = cheap PC that doesn't need a monitor. $140 for a used XBOX, $40 or so for a USB keyboard and mouse, $20 for adapters.... $200 gets you a PC that plays XBOX games and runs linux. I'd do it if I hadn't already built two linux boxes of my own.

Plus, if people really go this route for cheap PCs... microsoft will sell a hell of a lot more consoles, but not as much software, causing them to hemmorhage even more money.

Also consider, Billy boy doesn't want anything microsoft to have to do with linux. He's called linux and Open Source software a plauge (or was it disease? it was a year ago...) and has made no bones about his disdain of the GPL license.

-AG

Zaxxon

07-01-2003, 12:35 PM

So MS selling less software and losing more money thus eventually killing the Xbox is viewed as a good thing by you?

slapdash

07-01-2003, 03:51 PM

So MS selling less software and losing more money thus eventually killing the Xbox is viewed as a good thing by you?

Oh gods yes!

*ahem* Sorry, kneejerk "I-hate-Microsoft" reaction...

You know, just because you run Linux on your XBox doesn't mean you automatically stop buying games for it, each of which gives money to Microsoft.

No one's trying to kill the XBox here man.

Jorpho

07-01-2003, 03:55 PM

Microsoft will probably find some way of forcing people to download a patch that will disable usage of the disc as soon as they try to connect to XBox Live, or something.
________
VOYEUR VIDEOS (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/43/voyeur/videos/1)

Ed Oscuro

07-01-2003, 04:03 PM

You know, just because you run Linux on your XBox doesn't mean you automatically stop buying games for it, each of which gives money to Microsoft.

Last time I checked, Microsoft doesn't make money off of the PC version of Counter-Strike. Sales of CS on the XBOX, which is probably supposed to be a killer app for the system, would be dramatically affected if suddenly people had the choice of playing either game's Linux PC port on the XBOX. Some would undoubtedly buy the XBOX version anyways, assuming it would be more stable, but the community would quickly figure out what sort of settings would be necessary to get it running well on the XBOX, if it needed support for a new driver that would probably get hacked in as well. Just speculation, of course, and the PS2 hasn't had similar things happen -- but that doesn't mean it can't or wouldn't.

Yes, this is a problem for MS, but I think that it could be solved through litigation, like it should be. Why aren't these folks threatening Nintendo's GameCube (I know the PS2 has Linux, don't think Nintendo does) in a similar manner?

Captain Wrong

07-01-2003, 05:08 PM

Why aren't these folks threatening Nintendo's GameCube (I know the PS2 has Linux, don't think Nintendo does) in a similar manner?

From a strictly specs point of view, what would be the point in running Linux on the GC? I mean, I could see someone doing it just to say they did it, but I doubt you could do much with it even if you got it up and running. Plus there's no HD and you'd have to figure out how to get past the backwards running mini-DVD to load anything.

Ed Oscuro

07-01-2003, 05:13 PM

Well, I can see their point that the XBOX is really a cut down PC (it is,) but I think it's fair to say that MS isn't taking the heat just because their system is that way. Some of the heat is on just because they're Microsoft -- not to second guess the intentions of the guys who're threatening to do this, but I'm sure lots of people would like to see MS taken down a big notch.

AB Positive

07-01-2003, 05:18 PM

Zaxxon

07-01-2003, 05:49 PM

While that's true, the linux geek rhetoric is usually to put linux on anything that moves. I have linux on my PC, my fiancee's PC, and on the Dreamcast. If I could, I'd mod my O2 to be a combination Odyssey 2 and linux box. Hell, it already has the keyboard and the joystick could work as a mouse.

...sort of.

-AG

Again, why? What's the big thrill of having Linux running on PS2 or Xbox or DC or whatever? Why is this exciting? Just doing it just to say you did it?

Ed Oscuro

07-01-2003, 06:24 PM

Again, why? What's the big thrill of having Linux running on PS2 or Xbox or DC or whatever? Why is this exciting? Just doing it just to say you did it?

Yes, indeed. While an XBOX is supposedly cheaper, there's always the used PC market--700 MHz PCs aren't that rare, though one with a graphics chip that can display as many polygons as the XBOX would be more expensive. In the analysis...no, modifying a system that's not supposed to be modified doesn't sound like a good idea.

Also, why is it that my challenge goes unanswered? Is it not true that people would consider Linux running on the XBOX demeaning to Microsoft? Geez.

ubersaurus

07-01-2003, 06:29 PM

Ed Oscuro

07-01-2003, 06:50 PM

It would be a boot disc, if Microsoft would release one, that is.

If you did a modification, like I think you're getting at, then yes, good question.

Anonymous

07-01-2003, 07:06 PM

The Reason MS is fighting so hard to keep linux off of the Xbox

Once you can run Linux, you can flash the BIOS of the Xbox, which will allow you to bypass the security chip, which means you can play *ahem* backups of current Xbox titles. That's why.

On a non-pirating note, I would love to see linux on the xbox for one reason: Xbox media player. The ability to network to my 200+ gigs of anime and music for viewing on my 40" tv would make this a very worthwhile investment for me. However, MS will simply not do it, and the guys will either release the info or their bluff will be called. Either way, there will be a collective yawn in the community, since vulnerabilities in the Xbox HW have been exploited for months already.

http://www.kindstranger.com/Images/linux.png

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-06-30&res=l

Captain Wrong

07-01-2003, 08:56 PM

On a non-pirating note, I would love to see linux on the xbox for one reason: Xbox media player. The ability to network to my 200+ gigs of anime and music for viewing on my 40" tv would make this a very worthwhile investment for me.

Non-pirating, eh? So you've legally purchased all 200+ gigs of anime and music then?

;)

Anonymous

07-01-2003, 09:24 PM

LOL LOL LOL ya got me!

However, all (*cough*most*cough*) of my anime is not licensed in the US, and subbed by groups for free distribution. All distribution is halted once a series is licensed for sale in the US. And I have almost all of my MP3s as originals on disc, except for stuff that (again) is either not licensed here in the US, or is not in print.

slapdash

07-02-2003, 01:01 PM

You know, just because you run Linux on your XBox doesn't mean you automatically stop buying games for it, each of which gives money to Microsoft.

Last time I checked, Microsoft doesn't make money off of the PC version of Counter-Strike. Sales of CS on the XBOX, which is probably supposed to be a killer app for the system, would be dramatically affected if suddenly people had the choice of playing either game's Linux PC port on the XBOX.

Do all flavors of Linux run on the XBox, or is a special version required? And will Counter-Strike run on any flavor of Linux? If CS will run on any variety, and the XBox will run any Linux, then I see your point, but if not, I stand by what I said.

If you're running linux on the xbox how are you going to load up the games that were made to run on its old OS?

Isn't the idea that you'd have a Linux boot disc? In other words, if you want Linux, load it. If you want a game, load it instead. If you overwrite the XBox OS with Linux, then you've obviously made a decision not to run XBox games, but I can't see any gamer doing that unless EVERY XBox game was also available for Linux, which is far from reality.

Nature Boy

07-02-2003, 01:35 PM

Well, I can see their point that the XBOX is really a cut down PC (it is,).

What I don't understand is why so many people *care* that the Xbox is a "Cut Down PC." Why does it make a difference? And would it make a difference if this were Sony or Nintendo or Sega who had decided to do this? In fact, isn't the Dreamcast something of a PC itself? (I don't know for sure either way - but I do know there's a sizable emulation community for it, which suggests the PC link to me).

Does anybody think MS will take a page from the Nintendo book and attempt to use a proprietary format to avoid pirating next time around?

The Unknown Gamer

07-02-2003, 01:39 PM

Didn't Microsoft once offer anyone $100,000 if they could get any
OS to work on the XBOX?

Anonymous

07-02-2003, 02:42 PM

yes and no. There is an offer of $100,000, but it's not from Microsoft. It's from some linux commision. The deal is they have to break the code, not circumvent it, which is why none of the current methods are eligible.

And as I've always said, I can't understand why Microsoft went with high quality established electronics, when they should have used magic pixie dust in their systems, like Nintendo and Sony did.

dave2236

07-02-2003, 02:45 PM

Do all flavors of Linux run on the XBox, or is a special version required? And will Counter-Strike run on any flavor of Linux? If CS will run on any variety, and the XBox will run any Linux, then I see your point, but if not, I stand by what I said.

I don't know if this helps at all, but we used to run Linux dedicated Counter-Strike servers at my old job. I would assume with a little hard work you should be able to do it on an X-Box.

YoshiM

07-02-2003, 03:12 PM

The Linux kiddies that do this basically want to give the finger to Microsoft by making an MS product run a competing operating system (competing on the PC platform but now leaking out to devices, toasters, electric toothbrushes, etc.). Now there's a group that is threatening to release a way to run Linux on the Xbox UNLESS Microsoft releases a boot disc so they can run the OS without doing it "their way". They need to pull the tops of their ears until they hear a loud "pop" sound. That's the sound of their head being removed from their ass.

Let's think about this (hypothetically of course): If Microsoft DOES release a boot disc, then people would buy the Xbox as a cheap PC that can be run on a TV (ala a Commodore 64 x 100). MS possibly would lose out of money as people would be least likely to buy Xbox games. Now, if Microsoft DOES NOT release said boot disc, the Linux Hacker Kiddies will release the information, people will buy the Xbox as a cheap PC that can be run on a TV and MS possibly would lose out money as people would be least likely to buy Xbox games. Where does Microsoft win in this situation? They don't.

Now as goofy as it may seem to me, I don't care if people really mod their Xboxes. It's yours, do what you want. But to actually go to a company with more money than [insert deity here] and TELL them to enable their product to do something it wasn't intended to do OR ELSE deserves to have their nutsacks (or head if one is devoid of said nutsack) thwacked with a blunt heavy instrument. Now when the hard drive kit for Sony comes out (is it out? I haven't heard anything) are there going to be kiddies out there that demands that Sony opens up their hardware to let Linux be loaded (and not just Sony's brand)? What about Nintendo, are the kiddies going to go up to them and demand to be able to boot Linux from a mini CD/DVD so they can write files to their linked GBAs? Or else? Nope, not gonna happen on either side.

People like this give Linux and the idea of open source of anything a bad name.