View Full Version : This can NOT be the legacy of vector graphics..
Fontaine Le Funk
08-22-2010, 05:45 AM
I recently played an Asteroids cab at a local arcade, then while at home realized the displays of the ports I have, even MAME's , really do SUCK! The ships and bullets are so small! I particularly love the brightness of each individual bullet on a vector display! The Playstation 1 Midway version...despite the improved resolution available with S-video or even the laser sharpness on modern screens, the graphics do suck! It's the thick lines only available on older screens that approach phosphorous resolutions that are the coolest! The GLOW of those screens (you all know what i mean) The HDMI degraded to coaxial signal might display the closest appearence of vector phosphorous in this day without an actual set-up. My best effort is a PS1 best-of-disc on a 90's tv with coaxial hook-up.
Anyone have better luck?
joshnickerson
08-22-2010, 12:26 PM
Well obviously if the game was designed for a vector monitor, that's what it's gonna look best on. I don't think you're going to be able to duplicate the effect on any modern equipment.
You might want to try AAE: http://pages.suddenlink.net/aae/ . I've never tried it, but I've heard people say it's actually pretty good. You can see screenshots, so I guess that's what it'll look like... which is pretty good, but still nowhere near that of a real vector monitor.
DogP
Baloo
08-22-2010, 06:16 PM
Well, we'll always have the Vectrex at least.
NE146
08-22-2010, 09:02 PM
The GLOW of those screens (you all know what i mean)
Yep.. you can't really replicate that glow where the tiny shots themselves are physically glowing bright unless you actually have a Vector monitor which could make that single pixel more intense than the rest.
But most of us are doomed to forget for the most part since no one would really know how it's supposed to really look unless they see an actual Asteroids cab themselves.
kedawa
08-23-2010, 05:06 AM
With a high enough resolution and refresh rate and with the proper effects, it should be possible to recreate the look of a vector monitor.
I just don't think anyone has really put the effort into it yet.
Fontaine Le Funk
08-23-2010, 05:12 AM
You might want to try AAE: http://pages.suddenlink.net/aae/ . I've never tried it, but I've heard people say it's actually pretty good. You can see screenshots, so I guess that's what it'll look like... which is pretty good, but still nowhere near that of a real vector monitor.
DogP
Thanks for bringing this up, it is less about the preservation of the code and more about the experience. Been using it for the last few hours with the sound up, it's really cool.
Steve W
08-23-2010, 09:27 PM
On the subject of vector graphics games, I was wondering... has anyone tried to use a laser with a beam splitter (like is used in laser planetarium shows) to replace a vector monitor? I can imagine how difficult it would be, but then you could project vector games on the side of a building!
Gameguy
08-23-2010, 09:43 PM
I remember that Atari Anniversary Edition had a feature to recreate the look of vector graphics, I don't think it's perfect but it's not bad. I used to play that a lot on the PC.
With a high enough resolution and refresh rate and with the proper effects, it should be possible to recreate the look of a vector monitor.
I just don't think anyone has really put the effort into it yet.
Not really... it would need to be a very special monitor with extreme brightness and nearly infinite contrast to fully recreate the look of a vector monitor. A vector monitor works completely differently than any other type of monitor, and it's just not possible to make the blacks any blacker than a vector monitor (because the beam never travels to the black spots), and the bright spots are very intense, because once again, the beam is focused only on that one spot.
On the subject of vector graphics games, I was wondering... has anyone tried to use a laser with a beam splitter (like is used in laser planetarium shows) to replace a vector monitor? I can imagine how difficult it would be, but then you could project vector games on the side of a building!
Yep... search for LaserMAME... like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93gOixOWyoQ . I remember seeing a site showing the equipment used a long time ago (I think from lasers.org or something).
DogP
danny_galaga
08-23-2010, 10:17 PM
there's only two options I can think of for that genuine look. Buy a vector monitor second hand, or buy one new. I believe RAM controls are making them new for their Star Wars cockpit cabs. Which is pretty much on the top of my list of things to get if I ever have some spare cash. higher on the list than getting a fancy car or house (",)
kedawa
08-24-2010, 12:49 AM
Not really... it would need to be a very special monitor with extreme brightness and nearly infinite contrast to fully recreate the look of a vector monitor. A vector monitor works completely differently than any other type of monitor, and it's just not possible to make the blacks any blacker than a vector monitor (because the beam never travels to the black spots), and the bright spots are very intense, because once again, the beam is focused only on that one spot.
There are OLED screens that have that kind of contrast, and an extremely high refresh rate as well. Maybe those could do it?
It's been a long time since I've seen vector monitor in action, but it's very similar to an oscilloscope screen isn't it?
Arkhan
08-24-2010, 01:14 AM
cheat! dim everything but the bullets!
but yeah, vector emulation frikking SUCKS
space fury for mame just looks like shit
It's been a long time since I've seen vector monitor in action, but it's very similar to an oscilloscope screen isn't it?
Yep... I use my oscilloscope as a vector monitor for testing, and I've heard of people using vector monitors as an oscilloscope. :P
DogP
bradd
08-24-2010, 04:02 AM
i agree there is nothing like the real thing, but to make it at least closer than the default settings i go into the vector tab and crank the intensity, as well as turning up the beam width and flicker. it is a vast improvement.
NE146
08-24-2010, 01:49 PM
If you can imagine looking into the face of an LED flashlight.. you're getting close to how the bullets shine out of an Asteroids vector monitor. They are bright and physically glow out of the screen.. and they're just a tiny dot.
<edit> Oh.. I just realized there are probably vids out there, and sure enough..check out the shots here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHjfCw5X9Fw
vs. on emulated on a regular modern monitor.. I dont think you can even see the shots on it really... :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHjfCw5X9Fw
Same dot on both.. except one glows over the rest of the graphics on screen.
You can adjust an emulated vector monitor all you want but you can't isolate that single part of the graphics to be brighter then the rest all that easily. I guess you could code something into the emulator somehow maybe.. I dunno.
jb143
08-24-2010, 02:10 PM
I have my mame PC connected to a TV by S-Video and have the vector games tweaked to be brighter and it looks fairly decent. But yeah, it's still not quite the same. A lot better than just using a monitor and out of the box mame settings though.
Detonator
07-15-2012, 10:40 PM
Sorry for bumping this old topic.
But there is no proper video of the AAE (as far as I know).
Check it out. I made a small YouTube video of the emulator. It can't make it justice as the resolution is rather low on the vid, but at least you'll see the features. Shots on Asteroids & Asteroids Deluxe look pretty authentic don't you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4lHsVueSj0#