eBay Feedback and DP users

[Emuaust]

I recently purchased some items off a seller from eBay, a seller that is a frequent user of these forums and I don't need to name names, they will know who they are when they see this thread.

My beef is the fact that when I got the parcel of goods I noticed he has charged three times the postage cost, $15 to ship 2 sms carts when the postage sticker shows $4.85. I usually don't complain when people charge a little extra, I have sold on eBay and better to be safe then sorry.

My question to users here is, what should I do, he refuses to talk to me and paypal don't care on postage costs, would you leave feedback on his DP thread if he advertised his auction in the "everything auctions" thread?

I don't want to appear an ass, but I would want to know if a seller gouges on postage before I bought from him.

[aaron7]

Leave him a neutral feedback stating he triple-charges for shipping. Done.

[Rev. Link]

Neutral feedback on eBay sounds acceptable to me. I might go further and post in his DP feedback thread, especially since this person refuses to discuss the problem with you.

[megasdkirby]

My beef is the fact that when I got the parcel of goods I noticed he has charged three times the postage cost, $15 to ship 2 sms carts when the postage sticker shows $4.85. I usually don't complain when people charge a little extra, I have sold on eBay and better to be safe then sorry.

My question to users here is, what should I do, he refuses to talk to me and paypal don't care on postage costs, would you leave feedback on his DP thread if he advertised his auction in the "everything auctions" thread?



The issue here is that you agreed with shipping costs when you purchased the items, even though you were not happy with the amount. Some will tell you this, and you know, they are right. However, that doesn't mean that what the seller did was correct, because honestly it wasn't. I understand that shipping costs involve alot of things (hence a handling charge). But to gouge so severely is very questionable. If it was me, I would charge enough to pay actual postage, a small handling fee, and if possible, at least part of my fees. But that should not be more than just a few bucks on top of what is actually charged. Of course, this all depends on the person.

Have you tried contacting them here on DP?

I know it might be a douche act to call him out on the boards, but other uses should be wary about these practices and bid with caution. I think I have an idea on who the seller is, since you mentioned "sms carts", but no matter who the seller is, they shouldn't gouge like they did.

I would call them out on the boards, on his/her feedback page, to warn uses. Because if this happened to you, it might happen to others, and people should be warned about said practices.

This might be irrelevant, but are you from Canada Emaust? It might be that the seller thought it would be costly to ship to Canada. In any case, he/she should refund part of your shipping payment.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Did he state his shipping charges up front? Was $15 in the auction details? If so, I don't see a reason to leave any negative feedback. This is something people on eBay have been doing since it started, to limit the amount of money eBay takes out for fees.

Now if he said "actual shipping charges" and you found out after the auction ended that it was 3 times more than you expected, then I could see your beef. Or he initially told you $5 and then were surprised with "oops, it's $15 and not $5."

I personally never ever bid on anything where I don't know the shipping charges before an item has ended. If it doesn't list the charges, I send the user a message requesting an estimate. To date (since 1999), I have never left or received a negative feedback on eBay.

[megasdkirby]

Did he state his shipping charges up front? Was $15 in the auction details? If so, I don't see a reason to leave any negative feedback. This is something people on eBay have been doing since it started, to limit the amount of money eBay takes out for fees.

I agree. A negative should not be given in this case. However, I would still warn other uses about the sellers practices. If this would happen to me, I would accept the shipping charges, even though I am not happy with them. Why? Because I agreed to pay regardless. I would, however, warn others that said seller does this act, so they can know in advance. But I would not leave negative feedback. This is what DSR's are for.


Now if he said "actual shipping charges" and you found out after the auction ended that it was 3 times more than you expected, then I could see your beef. Or he initially told you $5 and then were surprised with "oops, it's $15 and not $5."

If I am not mistaken, this could be considered fee circumvention, right?


I personally never ever bid on anything where I don't know the shipping charges before an item has ended. If it doesn't list the charges, I send the user a message requesting an estimate. To date (since 1999), I have never left or received a negative feedback on eBay.

Yes, it is always best to contact the seller to have an idea on shipping charges before bidding. For a UPS battery I was interested in, the seller was charging me $10 shipping plus $5 handling charge, something that the seller never listed in his listing. Because of this, I did not purchase anything from the seller and got the battery here, which ended up being cheaper in the end.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

If I am not mistaken, this could be considered fee circumvention, right?


I'm not condoning it, I've never done it, but "Welcome to Ebay."

I still see no problem paying $15 for shipping if it's made clear up front. Final prices are usually adjusted accordingly in regards to high shipping prices. I will not bid past a certain amount if the shipping charges are outrageous. Caveat Emptor.

If item A is identical to item B, but Item B costs $10 more to ship, I'll bid $10 less on item B.

If I go into an antique store and I see a copy of contra for $25 bucks, when I know I can get it for $15 here, whose fault is it? Do I contact the better business bureau because their prices are above "Retail," after buying it anyway?" Or do I just not buy it?

Again I'm not excusing shady business practices, I'm just saying I avoid them.

Let me restate my original point just in case it gets lost in my ramblings: If the buyer was aware of the shipping costs up front before bidding, and then the seller changed the price after the auction closed, then the seller deserves a negative feedback. The seller is absolutely wrong. Knowing the shipping costs before hand, bidding accordingly, and then giving the seller a negative is wrong too. And when I say "wrong," I mean only TDI's personal definition of wrong. Not the Roman-Catholic, Vatican approved definition of "wrong."

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

I thought that eBay limited shipping costs to $4 for a video game?

JY

[megasdkirby]

Definitely. I had one seller try this once recently (said one price then gouced the price after listings ended). Everything panned out great at the end, but sometimes sellers think that because one lives outside the US, that shipping will be very high, which is not the case. It's a very common misconception of Ebay sellers.

But yeah, if the seller stated shipping costs before the listing was over, and the buyer placed a bid, the buyer has to accept, even if they don't like it. In this situation, I would at least warn other users about such practices, but I would not give a negative. At most, I would rate his DSR's accordingly with either positive or neutral.


I thought that eBay limited shipping costs to $4 for a video game?

JY

I'm pretty sure that sellers know a way to go around this. Not sure, though.

[PapaStu]

If it was me, I would charge enough to pay actual postage, a small handling fee, and if possible, at least part of my fees. But that should not be more than just a few bucks on top of what is actually charged. Of course, this all depends on the person.






If I am not mistaken, this could be considered fee circumvention, right?



Your own 'how I'd do it' is a fee circumvention. You are not allowed by eBay to charge extra in shipping for the fees you incur for doing business on ebay/PayPal. You're selling an item, it will cost you in some form, its called the cost of doing business. If it's too expensive for you, then don't do it, instead of raping your customers for a 'few bucks on top of what is actually charged'. How do I know that your few bucks isn't an additional 10 bucks.

Emu, what it comes down to is was it listed in the auction as $15 bucks shipping, or was that a number that the seller shot out once they found out they were shipping over seas (assuming this package was actually shipped to Emu's Australian home). The only other thing you can do is report the auction to eBay for excessive shipping charges, it won't get the money back, but it'll flag the seller for a time.

[GrandAmChandler]

MegaSDKirby STFU

OH SNAP!

http://avatarfarm.com/avatarimages/animatedimages/ohsnapanimatedavatar.gif

[megasdkirby]

Your own 'how I'd do it' is a fee circumvention. You are not allowed by eBay to charge extra in shipping for the fees you incur for doing business on ebay/PayPal. You're selling an item, it will cost you in some form, its called the cost of doing business. If it's too expensive for you, then don't do it, instead of raping your customers for a 'few bucks on top of what is actually charged'. How do I know that your few bucks isn't an additional 10 bucks.



Because it should be listed in the auctions. A seller should state that it will cost X amount for shipping but that they will charge Y amount for "handling". For instance $5 shipping plus maybe $1 or so for handling. I don't see this as circumvention because I would clearly state it in the listing and Ebay does permit a "handling fee", let it be moderate.

But if a seller charges $5 handling fee, this is what I call circumvention of fees. $1 or so shouldn't be considered, since it's permitted on Ebay:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-practices.html#shipping

As long as it's listed in the auction, it's fine. Not like that guy trying to sell me that UPS battery, as mentioned before.

To GAC:

:p

[HappehLemons]

Lots of sellers have high shipping to avoid fees since ebay (and maybe paypal?) doesn't take out for shipping costs. If the auction said 15 for shipping when you paid for 2 sms games did you really think it was cost that much? A medium flat rate box only costs $11 to ship.

[PapaStu]

Because it should be listed in the auctions. A seller should state that it will cost X amount for shipping but that they will charge Y amount for "handling". For instance $5 shipping plus maybe $1 or so for handling. I don't see this as circumvention because I would clearly state it in the listing and Ebay does permit a "handling fee", let it be moderate.

But if a seller charges $5 handling fee, this is what I call circumvention of fees. $1 or so shouldn't be considered, since it's permitted on Ebay:



It's nice that you're glossing over things you said. What about those eBay fees that you're trying to make back. Those are totally 'handling' charges right?
I'm not talking about insurance, which unless required by the seller (which is listed in the auction, and comes up as a separate charge after shipping when you go to pay) you're talking about tossing a couple of bucks into the 'handling' bucket. Again, 1 dollar is not a couple. Handling is to pay for the processing of the package to the post office and of course its subjective. Over time people have come to make it for that drive of the package, the box/packing materials itself and the zone where they try to make their fees back.

It's good to know you do that yourself, while you go after people who try to take you on shipping because they think they are going to be shipping overseas, instead of through the USPS which does cover PR. Maybe those sellers are just trying to cover their costs too....

[skaar]

Bring it up with the seller, if he doesn't respond mention in feedback and rate him low on shipping costs score.

Done.

[megasdkirby]

It's nice that you're glossing over things you said. What about those eBay fees that you're trying to make back. Those are totally 'handling' charges right?
I'm not talking about insurance, which unless required by the seller (which is listed in the auction, and comes up as a separate charge after shipping when you go to pay) you're talking about tossing a couple of bucks into the 'handling' bucket. Again, 1 dollar is not a couple. Handling is to pay for the processing of the package to the post office and of course its subjective. Over time people have come to make it for that drive of the package, the box/packing materials itself and the zone where they try to make their fees back.

It's good to know you do that yourself, while you go after people who try to take you on shipping because they think they are going to be shipping overseas, instead of through the USPS which does cover PR. Maybe those sellers are just trying to cover their costs too....

I never charge more than I ask. In fact, I loose on shipping charges because I undercharge, as in the case in Amazon and GameGavel. The most I've "overcharge" on shipping is...50 cents? That's because when I send an item, that is what is left over.

I'm not going to gouge a buyer for extra fees, because quite frankly (and as I've stated in the past, which if you like you can check for yourself on my post history) if I am selling, I'm assuming all fees to myself. The most I've done, and I admit has gone no where, is to request a 3% fee if sending payment via Paypal through a non-gift method. But I took that out because I realized it wasn't worth it.

I've never charged a handling fee, and you can feel free to contact those I've sold as proof.

So please don't jump to conclusions. What's more, I actually pay MORE when I buy things and it does not bother me at all. I am also willing to pay extra for services like Insurance and Signature Confirmation, as many can state as well.

A seller can feel free to charge an adequate handling fee if they like, just not excessive.

And also, some charge alot more solely because they think it's international when it isn't. This is a classic misconception, which plagues Hawaii and Alaska as well. Many sellers think that if it's not in the continental US, then it has to be infinitely expensive. What they don't realize is that PR/HI/AK is part of the US so it shares same services and basic rates. However, since each is separated by zones, shipping via certain methods, like Priority Mail, is quite different. A package from Florida to PR via Priority Mail might be, say $6, while from Florida to Washington or California might be, say, $9. Check it out if you like, you'd be surprise at how USPS does things.

[Oobgarm]

I've never charged a handling fee, and you can feel free to contact those I've sold as proof.

I have no personal beef with you, but this thread is not about you and your practices.

[Vectorman0]

I have only read the first post of this thread, and this is my response to that:

If you agreed to pay the shipping charge when you bought the item, I don't think negative feedback is fair to the seller. It may be courteous to refund some of the extra he charged, but what you both committed to doesn't require that. Next time negotiate first, buy second.




I'm also moving this to the Ebay forum.

[Kitsune Sniper]

There's no way he could've charged $15 unless he listed Express Mail in the shipping, grossly misrepresented the weight of the item in the listing, or was an ass and charged an arm and a leg to ship to a foreign country, which a few other forum users have mentioned doing here.

If he misrepresented the weight (as in, listed the item as weighing 4-5 lbs when it wasn't), he shipped the item in a different method than advertised (as in a lower speed or cheaper service), then you might have grounds to file a complaint with eBay or PayPal over excessive shipping.

Yes, you agreed to pay the $15. But eBay does have rules regarding shipping costs, and $10 in extra fees is waaaaaaaaay over what they'd consider a valid handling charge.

[Eduardo]

I charge shipping AND handling but this is always posted up front. Sometimes I err on the side of being too shy with my handling charge and I lose on the item, my mistake. I actually shipped some books to Poland and ended losing on both the books and the shipping cost and I still got a 1 star rating on my shipping costs because it wasn't actual shipping. You live, you learn.

But if it's stated on the auction you agree to the shipping and handling charge. That's why I always search for auction with lowest price first with shipping and handling included. Lets say in this particular case, 5 bucks for actual shipping and lets say 5 more for packaging and driving down to the post office, being generous here. He gouged you by $5, if you feel that's enough money to go to war for, by all means. I'll put up a chair and watch the fireworks.

[c0ldb33r]

Op don't pussy foot around.

Who screwed you over? Let's sort this out as a community.

We'll need a mod to volunteer as judge Judy.

[Cornelius]

OP should look at it this way (assuming shipping charges were stated up front): If the actual shipping were charged, he would have had to bid higher to win the item(s). You paid $X.XX total amount, which presumably you were happy with. The only looser here is eBay. Not condoning fee avoidance, but I'm not going to get worked up over it if I got a deal I was satisfied with.

[Ryaan1234]

Op don't pussy foot around.

Who screwed you over? Let's sort this out as a community.

We'll need a mod to volunteer as judge Judy.
I'm not going to spoil the "surprise" but this unknown seller has had complaints here before about his practices... (In fact a whole thread in this very forum)

I nominate Eternal Tune as our Judge Judy, btw.

[Emuaust]

OP should look at it this way (assuming shipping charges were stated up front): If the actual shipping were charged, he would have had to bid higher to win the item(s). You paid $X.XX total amount, which presumably you were happy with. The only looser here is eBay. Not condoning fee avoidance, but I'm not going to get worked up over it if I got a deal I was satisfied with.

No if anything I was tricked by my own ignorance to what the cost of postage from america was, I just have little tolerance for postage gougers.

[Kitsune Sniper]

No if anything I was tricked by my own ignorance to what the cost of postage from america was, I just have little tolerance for postage gougers.

Well, to be fair, if you're sending anything that's pretty large or weighs over four pounds, the cost of shipping anything outside of the USA is going to be insanely high.

But it should never cost $15 to send two SMS games.

[Porksta]

I have only read the first post of this thread, and this is my response to that:

If you agreed to pay the shipping charge when you bought the item, I don't think negative feedback is fair to the seller. It may be courteous to refund some of the extra he charged, but what you both committed to doesn't require that. Next time negotiate first, buy second.




I'm also moving this to the Ebay forum.

Basically this. You paid knowing full well how much he was charging you for shipping.

/thread

[brykasch]

Rule number 1, always check the shipping and handling before bidding, if its too high then don't bid. Don't expect combined shipping either, unless they specifically mention it.

[theclaw]

What the seller did might be against ebay policy if you can prove it.

Not exactly related, but IIRC a lot of overseas sellers are violating the rules on this. They're supposed to use the caluculator to set the correct price if above ebay's minimum for a category. Not say in the item description they need to charge more.

[mobiusclimber]

I fully condone leaving neutral or negative feedback and 1 stars across the board for any seller that charges three times what the shipping cost actually is, whether you "agreed" to it or not. It's time to get those assholes off Ebay, simple as that.

[Cornelius]

Well, to be fair, if you're sending anything that's pretty large or weighs over four pounds, the cost of shipping anything outside of the USA is going to be insanely high.

But it should never cost $15 to send two SMS games.

Unless they are trying to prevent an item not received claim. Then you can't use first-class and the starting cost is going to be more like $18 (for the two games). Clearly that's not what happened here, but that's always been my dilemma with intl shipping.

Which, if the buyer here really wants to be a jerk and hasn't provided proof of receipt already, is what they could do in this case.