Top 25 Atari 2600 Games

[digitalpress]

Discuss.

Adventure
Crystal Castles
Frankenstein’s Monster
Frostbite
Haunted House
HERO
Jr. Pac-Man
Kaboom!
Laser Gates
Millipede
Missile Command
Montezuma’s Revenge
Moonsweeper
Mountain King
Pitfall 2
Pressure Cooker
Quick Step
River Raid
Road Runner
Solaris
Space Invaders
Starmaster
Super Breakout
Thrust (homebrew)
Vanguard

[Keir]

Great list. Can tape games count?

[Sniderman]

My feeling is that several of the homebrews coming out have to be on this list. Marble Craze is an amazing piece of work, as is Thrust. And SCSIcide is one of the most addictive 2600 games ever made.

[Arcade Antics]

I'd be inclined to keep either Decathlon OR Summer Games, but not both.

I wouldn't mind seeing Crystal Castles on that list. And maybe Road Runner. And Millipede.

So in that case, two more games would have to go. I guess Ms. Pac could be dropped in favor of Jr., the better of the two.

I'd lose Mario Bros. in favor of Road Runner. Mario Bros. just doesn't "feel" quite right, and the 5200 version is just SO good.

In short:

DROP: Mario Bros., Ms. Pac, and either Decathlon OR Summer Games.
ADD: Millipede, Crystal Castles, Road Runner

[ubersaurus]

Thrust is a must. Thrust +, though, is thrust plus pause and more controller support.

[coleco_chris]

I'd take off Mario Bros & replace it w/ Dragonstomper. That game was amazing for its time. I remember thinking at the time, "this can't be an Atari 2600 I'm playing this on!"

I'd add Solaris as well, probably replacing Laser Gates, or maybe Vanguard, as these two games are similar enough to me.

[digitalpress]

Changes made to reflect recent discussion. NOTE that we now have 22. Remember that something needs to be dropped for EVERY game you think should be added. And provide a reason!

Follow Arcade Antics' lead. He "gets it".

[theaveng]

I don't think limited-release games should be included... only mass market.

Also, with such a huge library (1000+), I think it makes sense to do a Top 50 like we did with the PS1.

That said, I think you should move "Thrust" to a "honorable mention" category and add these games:
3D Tic-Tac-Toe
Enduro
Pac-Man '99 (honorable mention)
Berzerk
Defender 2
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Phoenix
Galaxian
Demon Attack
Star Raiders
Starmaster
Cosmic Ark
RealSports Volleyball
Superman
Video Pinball
Atlantis
Dig Dug
Frooger 1 or 2
Jungle Hunt
Popeye
Q-Bert

Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back
Moon Patrol
Keystone Kapers
Indy 500
Dolphin
Asteroids
Chopper Command
Yar's Revenge
Warlords
Joust
Mario Bros.
Gravitar

[ubersaurus]

I disagree with the dropping of thrust just because it's a homebrew. It's not a limited release when you've been able to order it for the past 2 years from Hozer. It's just a homebrew.

I say remove Decathlon for one. I could never really stand that game, the controls were just..dumb, and the gameplay, to me, got old rather quickly.

Super Breakout was probably the best of that genre, but I really don't think it deserves a top spot in light of the releases after. Also think Jr. pac-man or Ms. Pac-man should be removed..I mean, they are both good, but do we realy need both on there? Fora replacement I vote Turmoil...it's such a good, fast paced shooter for the system that I don't see why it's not on already.

[theaveng]

Ms. Pac-Man sucks. You can play for hours without dying. Use Jr. Pac-Man instead... at least it's a challenge.

Since you guys are including "homebrew" Atari carts, I request including the "homebrew translations" of Final Fantasy 2/3 on the Nintendo list.

[digitalpress]

Um, hello? Troy, Ms. Pac-Man wasn't ON the list when you typed that last post. Please read the listing carefully before commenting since it changes based on the Roundtable public opinion. I'll address your FF question in the NES thread.

[Keir]

I would like to see either Escape from the Mindmaster or Dragonstomper added, but alas the list is too long already!

Here are my thoughts on what you might drop:

Decathlon: I just don't like it. My thumb gets tired.
HERO: As awesome as this game is, it was done much better on other systems (C64 in particular).
Vanguard: I really like Vanguard, but given the choice I would always pick Laser Gates over it.

[oesiii]

Atari lurker coming from out of the woodwork:

I would drop Vanguard and Decathlon, both aren't very innovative, get dull too soon, and I don't think they are prime 'What can a 2600 do?' games like Thrust+ and Solaris.

How about replacing Realsports Tennis with Activision Tennis? Anyone else prefer the overall game experience especially with 2 players on this one? I probably spent too much time in the early 80's playing it to be objective though.

[Arcade Antics]

2 games need to go. Tough choice.

My picks at present would be either Decathlon OR RS Tennis and Vanguard, all fantastic games, but the resulting list of 20 looks so sweet :)

For the Decathlon vs. RS Tennis match: on one hand, Decathlon is a fantastic four player endurance match that was oft played by our local gang of gamers all those summers ago :). BUT -- it's got that nasty cheat bug on the pole vault stage. RS Tennis has the groovy "name on the scoreboard thing", and is a better "realtime" head-to-head contest than Decathlon. Whaddya think gang?

[Arcade Antics]

That said, I think you should move "Thrust" to a "honorable mention" category and add these games:
3D Tic-Tac-Toe


3D Tic-Tac-Toe? I don't think that one would even show up on a top 800 list. :P

[k8track]

I'm thrilled to see four of my personal top five make the list (Pitfall 2, Solaris, Super Breakout, Adventure). I'm impressed that Super Breakout made the list; I wasn't sure if anyone ever agreed with me on that one. MUCH better than the 5200 version.

There are a few that I think are indispensable which should be on the list. Moonsweeper, for instance (the other game rounding out my top five). I'd drop Quick Step. I'm not sure why that game is on there; I've never been able to sink my teeth into that game. Moonsweeper encompasses a vast (for the 2600) universe that really makes you feel like you're visiting all those planets (at least it did when I was in 8th grade).

I would also drop Decathlon and replace it with Frostbite. Decathlon is impressive in that ten events are squeezed onto a single 2600 cart--kudos to David Crane. But consequently, the gameplay is a bit sparse and the "fun factor" is almost nil--how many joysticks have been broken over this game? (I've always used the Accuball.) Frostbite, on the other hand, has that replayability about it, that "fun factor" which draws you into playing again and again.

The only other game that I'm not convinced should be on the list is Frankenstein's Monster. Looks great, and is definitely the best of the Data Age games, but I'm not sure of the playability factor. To be fair, I really haven't played it that much, so there may be more to it. Still, I'd scrutinize it more carefully. If the axe has to fall somewhere, that could be a possibility.

I think an honorable mention should go to Tapper. I haven't really played it that much (I just got it recently), so I can't judge the playability, but wow, it looks great and it seems like Sega did a wonderful job. I know you're trying to whittle the list down a bit, so that probably doesn't help.

[theaveng]

ooops... soory digitalpress.




HERO: As awesome as this game is, it was done much better on other systems (C64 in particular).

Not everyone owns a C=64. Besides, the C=64 version feels "off" Ditto Pitfall2 C=64. The Atari version of both games has cleaner graphics without a lot of gaudy details.

[theaveng]

DigitalPress wrote, "I'm sure they're great games, but the purpose here is for those who play NES games to look over a list of the best titles. This isn't for people with emulators, it's for those looking for the REAL experience of NES. On an actual NES console, with an actual NES controller"



Is Thrust available in cartridge form?

[theaveng]

I wish the EDITING was turned on, so I could modify posts instead of adding more.



HERO: As awesome as this game is, it was done much better on other systems (C64 in particular)

P.S. If we used that reasoning, we'd have to delete most of the 2600 games off the list. Pitfall2 is better on 5200. Joust is better on 7800. And on and on. Let's judge the 2600 alone on its own merits.

[digitalpress]

Thrust is available in cartridge form. You can get it from Hozer Video.

Editing is turned off so that the lists themselves don't get edited by anyone but me. Sorry. Next time just think about what you're going to say instead of rusihing it. We're not in a hurry, this list will go on and be forever topic of discussion.

[NE146]

hmm choosing between 2600 Mspacman and Jr. Pacman. what a dillema!

I dunno.. I think Mspac SHOULD be there. I don't know what kind of skills theaveng has but MsPac set to 4 ghosts gets HARD once you reach the Banana stage... if he can play for 'hours' after that with Blinky going at top speed... my hat's off to him. But in my opinion MsPacman is the right difficulty.. allowing you to reach the upper stages and being hard at that point. Yes I'd say it IS a challenge, however it is also masterable. (try scoring 300k)

However Jr.Pacman although it's AWESOME and masterful programming (and really one of the best 2600 games ever).. really just seeems to me to be just an offshoot of MsPac. Additionally, try clearing 4 stages w/ 4 ghosts.. I'd be surprised if you can without practicing hardcore. IMHO however, it's just too hard!

Put it this way, Mspacman was an amazing surprise, a great translation of the arcade game that no one expected after 2600 Pacman brought expectations down so much.. However Jr. Pacman, although awesome, came later and was less of a surprise as MsPacman had already set that standard as a 'good pacman remake for the 2600'. Am I making any sense? :P

So although the choice is difficult, count me in as saying Mspac should be in there over Jr.Pac :D

[o2william]

I'm for leaving Frankenstein's Monster on there. It's a superb title, single-handedly justifying the existence of Data Age.

Mostly I think the list is accurate, although I would remove RealSports Tennis and Decathlon (because of my personal prejudice of not liking sports games). Road Runner could go as well. It's very impressive but I don't find it as fun as the others.

IMHO, Pressure Cooker and Starmaster need to be included (Cooker before Master is it came to blows). Also Haunted House, but I doubt most people like those games as much as I do.

So... I'd pull off RS Tennis, Decathlon, Road Runner, and... hmm... Space Invaders, I guess... and add Pressure Cooker and Haunted House. Perhaps exchange Super Breakout for Starmaster. That would make 20, right?


I kinda agree on dropping the games that are "better" on other systems... to me a "best of" list is more useful if it's a list of the best games exclusively available on a given system. For example, who wants to play stripped down arcade ports when we have MAME? (Although I think some 2600 ports are more fun than the arcade... such as Crystal Castles).

[ubersaurus]

We should make this a top 25 list...shoot, it gets rough!

[theaveng]

I dunno.. I think Mspac SHOULD be there. I don't know what kind of skills theaveng has but MsPac set to 4 ghosts gets HARD once you reach the Banana stage... .. allowing you to reach the upper stages and being hard at that point. Yes I'd say it IS a challenge, however it is also masterable. (try scoring 300k)


You must not not like Arcade Ms. Pac-Man then? You'd probably only get to the 4th screen. True?

Here's another reason to hate Atari Ms. Pac-Man: The ghosts are dumber than my dog! They wander aimlessly. What?!? They are supposed to CHASE you, not go exploring.

In Jr. Pac-Man, the ghosts chase you relentlessly... just like the arcade. And the pace is fast... just like the arcade. And it's difficult to get to screen 3... just like the arcade. Jr. Pac-Man is the only Atari game that accurately re-creates the arcade feel, and that's why it should be on the top list.

I erased my Pac-Man/Ms. Pac-Man ROMS long ago... only Jr. Pac-Man is challenging enough to keep me coming back.

[theaveng]

I tried to edit my last post and failed. Why?

[ubersaurus]

Hmm...I'd say take off Moonsweeper for Turmoil. I've already stated why I think Turmoil is damn sweet...Moonsweeper I just could never get into so much. I mean, It's like Solaris .5 I believe would be a good term. It has lot of the same stuff, but Solaris beats it. I also liked Beamrider alot, but I don't know what would get taken off for it.

[NE146]

You must not not like Arcade Ms. Pac-Man then? You'd probably only get to the 4th screen. True? hehI love the arcade game. :) On the original machine, on a 'good' game I could get past the 4th board and into the 2nd iteration of the 3rd board (not often, but I could) So I'm not the greatest at Ms. Pac, but I'm most certainly not bad. ;) .. These days however as most msPacs are set to fast speed, I can EASILY clear multiple boards past the point where ghosts no longer turn blue. My high is probably around 350k on those ones. Again, not the best, but not too shabby either imo. :)


Here's another reason to hate Atari Ms. Pac-Man: The ghosts are dumber than my dog! They wander aimlessly. What?!? They are supposed to CHASE you, not go exploring.
You "hate" MsPac? Man that was a groundbreaking game as far as pac-goodness goes on the 2600! You gotta give love to both of them. :D

My next thought is that DEMON ATTACK should be included as well. Let's not forget how absolutely groundbreaking that title was and how it revolutionized what everyone thought was possible on the 2600.

[theaveng]

Yeah, Demon Attack was very good. I've said it before and say it again: PS1 had a Top50 list... so too should Atari 2600. Then we'll have room for ALL the great games.

MS.PAC-MAN: When I was 10 I thought the colored ghosts were great... I admit it... but even then I thought it was *too easy.* As I said, playing a game for hours without end is monotonous. With only 30 slots available, and only room for 1 Pac-Man, I think the vote should go to a game that is challenging... Jr. Pac-Man is that game.

So... I suggest you load up Ms. Pac-Man again. Notice how the ghosts don't even bother to chase you! (dumb,dumb,dumb)! Then load Jr. Pac-Man. Do that side-by-side test and I'm sure you'll agree Jr .Pac-Man is far more fun.

(Note: If you want to see the last level of Jr. Pac-Man, use the Game Select switch.)



Maybe I'm a better gamer than I thought? I keep saying games are "too easy" (Ms.Pac-Man,FF7,PaperMario) and people keep telling me I'm nuts. I must be damn good. :lol: LOL

Just kidding... Irony: I can play Atari Ms. Pac-Man for hours, but when I play Arcade Ms. Pac-Man I only get to banana.

All this talk makes me want to go chomp some ghosts again. In Jr.Pac-Man of course. :-)

[digitalpress]

RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE, ANCIENT TOPIC!

:vamp: :devilish: :vamp:

[oesiii]

nice resurrected topic :D

Now i can add that the very best 2600 game that's not on your list is BMX Airmaster. A great example of late era 2600 programming and it beat Tony Hawk to the punch by a few years ;)

[IntvGene]

It's a pretty solid list. I would just do some minor tweaking.

I'd get rid of Frostbite for Frogger II. They are very similar games, and Frogger II is just amazing on the ol' 2600.

I would also remove Starmaster... and put on Yar's if you want a similar game, otherwise, I would recommend Tapper.

Laser Gates? It shouldn't be up there either... Tunnel Runner was always a favorite of mine.

[oesiii]

I forgot what I would remove to make way for BMX Airmaster, I would get rid of Vanguard, just gets boring too quick.

[Big Player]

Here's vote #2 for Marble Craze.

Take Vanguard off the list.

[le geek]

I second adding BMX Airmaster. The half pipe is crazy fun once you nudge the bike to keep bouncing in the air.

I recommend losing Moosweeper...

Ben

[Quickclaw]

Drop: Starmaster and Vanguard

Add: Keystone Kapers and Yar's Revenge

[nate1749]

Just got into playing 2600 and this list is a great start, but was hard for me to find since the search feature doesn't allow three letter words (e.g. "top"). Perhaps there should be a post with links to all the "top xxx" lists and then that could be sticked? Just an idea...

As for 2600, some of these games are so dated that you really need a guide or a key to figure out what the heck is going on if you've never played them before (I checked the classic guide to find out more about adventure, knowing that the arrows are actually swords and the II sign a bridge to cut through helped a lot).

I'll have to check out Ms. Pacman since it's on this list, but I can definitely say that Pac-Man on the 2600 is the worst clone ever made.

Nate

[Night Driver]

25 games just isn't enough for a top games list when it comes to the VCS. Top 40 would be better.

As it is, drop Haunted House, Frankenstein's Monster, Quick Step, and Laser Gates.

Add Superman, Asteroids, Turmoil, and Yars' Revenge.

[vintagegamecrazy]

Okay, drop Super Breakout and add Fireball, it's a shame that Starpath games are so rare but Fireball is the best breakout clone ever made period. Everyone try it and see if they don't get mesmerized by its amazingness.

I don't know what else to drop but I would say Midnight Magic belongs on this list as well. What an amazing pinball game!