Wiimote Plus... too little too late?

[Swamperon]

http://site.video-game-central.com/blog/2010/10/07/nintendo-confirms-wiimote-plus/

Now Nintendo have revealed the details of the Wiimote plus, do you think it will encourage developers to make Motionplus games, or avoid them so as not to split their potential customer base? Presuming the new Wiimote does become the standard.

Personally, I think they will avoid it and this is something Nintendo should have done when the M+ first came out. The Wii arguably only has another year and a half (2 at max) left in it before we see Nintendo's next console announced/released.

Many may not see the need/point and that the mass audience won't care/understand the difference with the new Wiimote so they won't risk people buying the game and discovering their old wiimote won't work 'properly'.

[NayusDante]

I personally haven't bothered with an M+ yet, so if I ever take interest in a game that requires it, I might just pick up a black W+. If they can sell both, I don't see much of a problem.

As for the Wii's lifetime, sure, they might announce a new console soon. Are they going to discontinue support for the Wii? Heck no! The Wii is only four years old, and it's going strong. The PS2 has lasted ten years. If Nintendo can put out some killer games to sell hardware over the next few years, they'll be set for long-term success. Keep in mind that the PS2 sold over 100 million units, and the Wii is only at about 50 million right now.

If Nintendo announces a new console, I don't think that it will cater to the Wii market. If anything, it will be a proper gaming machine for a smaller audience, as we're seeing with the 3DS. The Wii is the VCR of casual gaming, and DVD is still far off. That doesn't mean LaserDisc isn't on its way.

[Snapple]

Nintendo definitely should have made their motion control more accurate from launch instead of having to play catch up. But they still tricked everyone into having the #1 selling console of this generation, so props to them.

Microsoft and Sony are also trying to play catch up though, releasing motion add-ons.

Personally, I just want it all to die. Motion controls, that is. Give me a normal controller and let me exercise on my own time.

[NayusDante]

Personally, I just want it all to die. Motion controls, that is. Give me a normal controller and let me exercise on my own time.

Motion controls, yes. Pointing devices, I think we can improve on and make standard. Offhand, I can't think of a motion game I enjoyed other than Wii Sports, but Metroid on Wii works very well. If Nintendo does a niche console for action games, I can see it dropping motion control but keeping and improving the shooter-friendly pointing hardware.

[Leo_A]

The Wii is only four years old, and it's going strong. The PS2 has lasted ten years. If Nintendo can put out some killer games to sell hardware over the next few years, they'll be set for long-term success.

They're not already set for long-term success?


Keep in mind that the PS2 sold over 100 million units, and the Wii is only at about 50 million right now. .

The Wii passed the 75 million mark weeks ago,


If Nintendo announces a new console, I don't think that it will cater to the Wii market. If anything, it will be a proper gaming machine for a smaller audience, as we're seeing with the 3DS. The Wii is the VCR of casual gaming, and DVD is still far off. That doesn't mean LaserDisc isn't on its way.

Sorry, but that's obviously nonsense. When the Nintendo Wii is replaced, they're surely going to be designing the replacement to replicate and expand upon the success this console has enjoyed.

[Swamperon]

Motion controls, yes. Pointing devices, I think we can improve on and make standard. Offhand, I can't think of a motion game I enjoyed other than Wii Sports,

There is Boom Blox, which without motion control would have been extremely dull in comparison. But yes on the whole I'd say motion control hasn't been a great success game wise (sales wise though it has).

I do think it's here to stay in some form, but then so are buttons.

As for Wii longevity, I've no doubt games will keep being made for it for many years but I can't see any 1st party games past 2012. Although really I'd say 2011 but you never know.

[DuckTalesNES]

As for the Wii's lifetime, sure, they might announce a new console soon. Are they going to discontinue support for the Wii? Heck no! The Wii is only four years old, and it's going strong. The PS2 has lasted ten years. If Nintendo can put out some killer games to sell hardware over the next few years, they'll be set for long-term success. Keep in mind that the PS2 sold over 100 million units, and the Wii is only at about 50 million right now.


I completely disagree here. Nintendo has always immediately refocused all of their resources on their next system as soon as it is announced. The NES, SNES, N64, GC all became afterthoughts to them once the next system landed.

[NayusDante]

I completely disagree here. Nintendo has always immediately refocused all of their resources on their next system as soon as it is announced. The NES, SNES, N64, GC all became afterthoughts to them once the next system landed.

But look at where they went from there. They finally have a winning product and you think they're going to use the same strategy that weakened their market share, time after time?

[Icarus Moonsight]

So who is Nintendo playing catch-up with? Apple? :beaten:

Prognosticators with constipation unite to form... Queen Margarita!

It was stated that the applied tech for M+ wasn't even market available until 2007... *facepalm*

Duel Shock just killed the Playstation... Oh wait!

[kupomogli]

But look at where they went from there. They finally have a winning product and you think they're going to use the same strategy that weakened their market share, time after time?

Just think of the fanbase they had with the GBA before the release of the DS. Other than funding the Final Fantasy Advance ports, they pretty much completely dropped support and the GBA was nearly dead other than the very little third party support it still had.

Look at the 3DS. I'm sure that the companies putting games out on it didn't do so from the goodness of their hearts. More than likely Nintendo threw around a lot of cash to get the kind of support it's received for the 3DS. Makes me think that as soon as the 3DS is released we'll see very very few compatible DS or DSi games. Like Nintendo's regular strategy. "Buy our new system or fuck yourself."

As long as we've been playing and collecting games it's time and time again you see this bs pulled from Nintendo. I despise the company but if I want good games that are surely to come on the 3DS I'm going to pick one up(Mega Man Legends 3 means it's going to be a must own system for me, just not until there's a price drop.)

[NayusDante]

Like Nintendo's regular strategy. "Buy our new system or fuck yourself."

I always thought it was "Get N or Get Out," but your slogan works too.

Still, look at the GBA. The GBA wasn't a Wii. The point I'm trying to get across is that the Wii is a very different market from any console in the history of gaming, and it needs to be treated as such. I'm sure that we'll see first-party titles drop from the Wii in the next few years, but I can see them continuing to manufacture the console and carry it with vehement 3rd party support in the casual market. The immortal Brazilian Mega Drive market comes to mind.

[Bojay1997]

I always thought it was "Get N or Get Out," but your slogan works too.

Still, look at the GBA. The GBA wasn't a Wii. The point I'm trying to get across is that the Wii is a very different market from any console in the history of gaming, and it needs to be treated as such. I'm sure that we'll see first-party titles drop from the Wii in the next few years, but I can see them continuing to manufacture the console and carry it with vehement 3rd party support in the casual market. The immortal Brazilian Mega Drive market comes to mind.

Unlikely. Software sales have been soft even for first party stuff in the past two years. Yes, they still make money on hardware, but given Nintendo's past practice on even their most successful products, they will almost immediately move anything in advanced development over to the next system and we will likely only see a handful of first party stuff that is literally months away from being ready for release or stuff that gets a dual release on both the new and the old console (Zelda for the GC/Wii comes to mind, as does Wario's Woods for the NES/SNES, etc...) and perhaps some continuing third party support for the Wii. Nintendo tends to avoid niche marginal markets. It's why they don't really strongly support their own virtual console. Unless there is a ton of money to be made, they could care less.

[Enigmus]

I completely disagree here. Nintendo has always immediately refocused all of their resources on their next system as soon as it is announced. The NES, SNES, N64, GC all became afterthoughts to them once the next system landed.

If you think they forgot the NES when the Super NES was released, then please explain why Kirby's Adventure, Startropics 2, Wario's Woods, etc. all exist.

[le geek]

Avoiding larger speculation, I'm sure I will get one (or maybe just the Plus add-on Dongle) for the next Zelda.

[j_factor]

Haven't they already been selling Wiimote + Motionplus bundles? This doesn't really "do" anything.

[Baloo]

Haven't they already been selling Wiimote + Motionplus bundles? This doesn't really "do" anything.

Yeah, they've been bundling it with Wii Sports Resort, and Wiimotes, so this is no big deal.

And the concept of Wii Motion Plus is fine IMO, I don't think it's too little too late, Wii definitely has at least a good 3 or 4 years while 360 and PS3 play catch-up.

[Robocop2]

It's really a market leader addressing a supposed deficiency that exists vs. the competition.I doubt it will do any worse than Move or Kinect

[Swamperon]

Haven't they already been selling Wiimote + Motionplus bundles? This doesn't really "do" anything.

Well, it arguably does. Now the two are combined into one and made the standard Wiimote (i.e. all old Wiimotes will stop being sold new). Every game made after that point should theoretically be motion+ plus compatible.

However I'm saying that probably won't happen as it's too late in the Wii's life cycle. Perhaps if they had launched these new Wiimotes the same time as the M+ attachment came out, then M+ games may have become standard.

The argument of M+ from the Wii's launch is bit of a non starter.

[Icarus Moonsight]

As far as GBA/DS drop off, it was signaled to Nintendo by the consumers actions... Drill Dozer, an awesome Game Freak developed game and Nintendo published didn't even manage to make waves after DS. I can still find new copies of it... There comes a time when people stop buying, you just have to move on at that point. If the games still produced sales, they would have been sustained longer.

M+ induction was handled fairly well by my estimation. When it was being introduced the major factor to consider was, all Wii owners had existing Wii remotes already. The dongle add-on made perfect sense, it could be had cheaper than a whole new unit and Voltron'd into the scheme. They designed the controller to be modular from the get go, which I thought was rather brilliant myself. The rejection risk would be much higher if M+ was introduced as a new integrated M+ wiimote only, even at a retail cost of $50--a $20 dongle being less than half that. Even though 40 (old remote) + 20 (dongle) = 60. It's a fact of economics they're working with, sunk cost--the fact that many people already had wiimotes, only minus M+, that made this the most probable method to adoption.

When the M+ dongle was announced I was certain they would merge them into a single unit eventually. Again, looking at market signals, they'd do this when it is perceived to be in their best interest and the market accepted it and had shown a willingness to support/adopt it.

The fact they are even bothering with the expense of producing the combined unit signals the success of M+ as perceived by Nintendo. They made their goals and they're fully committed to it now. That's rare in this industry... Exceedingly.

[Leo_A]

It's really a market leader addressing a supposed deficiency that exists vs. the competition.I doubt it will do any worse than Move or Kinect

It's hardly anything so dramatic.

It's simply a logical step to integrate Motion Plus into future Wiimotes. Everyone knew this was eventually going to happen the minute we found out about Motion Plus.


Well, it arguably does. Now the two are combined into one and made the standard Wiimote (i.e. all old Wiimotes will stop being sold new). Every game made after that point should theoretically be motion+ plus compatible.

How did you arrive at that conclusion? There are 75 million + Wii's out there and probably well over 150 million Wiimotes, the vast majority of which don't have the Motion Plus attachment. Integrating it into future Wiimotes hardly erases the obvious fact that the vast majority of your consumer base doesn't have a Motion Plus add-on.

The only games ever coming out that are Motion Plus compatible will be those where there is a compelling reason to support the attachment, such as in Skyward Sword. You will never see Motion Plus compatibility become anything near universal on this platform. It simply isn't needed and doesn't make any sense to support or require in the vast majority of games.

[Swamperon]

How did you arrive at that conclusion? There are 75 million + Wii's out there and probably well over 150 million Wiimotes, the vast majority of which don't have the Motion Plus attachment. Integrating it into future Wiimotes hardly erases the obvious fact that the vast majority of your consumer base doesn't have a Motion Plus add-on.



Well that actually is my 'argument'. The logic being that when M+ first came out if they had released the modular attachment and the new Wiimote Plus at the same time, existing Wiimotes could have been upgraded and all new owners would have had the new Wiimotes.

Given that the Wii install base was significantly less than 75million when M+ was released, a higher percentage of the customer base would have had M+ capabilities if this had been done (and there's no valid reason why both couldn't have been released). Therefore potentially making M+ games more common/the norm.

I'm arguing this may have been a missed point for Nintendo. Whether it was or not is now arguably immaterial, but I think they are a bit late in releasing this now.

[Bojay1997]

If you think they forgot the NES when the Super NES was released, then please explain why Kirby's Adventure, Startropics 2, Wario's Woods, etc. all exist.

Kirby's Adventure, Wario's Woods and Startropics 2 were not exactly considered "A" franchises at the same and they still aren't today. Nobody is arguing that Nintendo will immediately cease all support for Wii, but given their consistent past practice with other successful products, they will move all of their big franchises to the next platform and probably just release whatever is very close to being completed for the Wii. It's not the same as complete abandonment, but it's also not the slow taper down that Sony and in the old days Sega had traditionally employed.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Well that actually is my 'argument'. The logic being that when M+ first came out if they had released the modular attachment and the new Wiimote Plus at the same time, existing Wiimotes could have been upgraded and all new owners would have had the new Wiimotes.

Given that the Wii install base was significantly less than 75million when M+ was released, a higher percentage of the customer base would have had M+ capabilities if this had been done (and there's no valid reason why both couldn't have been released). Therefore potentially making M+ games more common/the norm.

I'm arguing this may have been a missed point for Nintendo. Whether it was or not is now arguably immaterial, but I think they are a bit late in releasing this now.

What if the consumers rejected M+? And they've retooled their Wiimote production process... Do you know how much planning, time and money your talking about playing with on non-required risk?

Why specifically do you think it's too late? I'm trying to understand, really I am.

[Swamperon]

Perhaps, but why would any consumer logically reject them? After all the M+ is just an extension of what people have already signed up for when buying the Wii. I would guess that the majority of the mass audience neither know or care about the details of M+, just that it improves the Wii. It would odd for them to reject it.

That argument would hold more water if say with the PS3/Xbox 360. If either company decided to entirely drop their standard controls in favour for their motion controls, then that could easily cause customer alienation as the control methods are entirely different, but M+ isn't.

I'm only saying that if Nintendo had released this new Wiimote the same time as M+ attachedment, then M+ attachment rates would have significantly increased. Therefore we could be seeing more M+ games and less people complaining about motion recognition on the Wii. And then perhaps less favourable comparisons to Move (whose release I'm guessing has prompted Nintendo to release the new Wiimote).

I say too late because the buzz of M+ has worn off and the Wii arguably only has another year, 2 at max, before we see Nintendo's successor console (or at least the announcement).

Then I could be entirely wrong and should Flingsmash/Zelda: SS go on to sell over, say, 10 million, it may convince developers to release more M+ games quickly.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Perhaps, but why would any consumer logically reject them? After all the M+ is just an extension of what people have already signed up for when buying the Wii. I would guess that the majority of the mass audience neither know or care about the details of M+, just that it improves the Wii. It would odd for them to reject it.

That argument would hold more water if say with the PS3/Xbox 360. If either company decided to entirely drop their standard controls in favour for their motion controls, then that could easily cause customer alienation as the control methods are entirely different, but M+ isn't.

I'm only saying that if Nintendo had released this new Wiimote the same time as M+ attachedment, then M+ attachment rates would have significantly increased. Therefore we could be seeing more M+ games and less people complaining about motion recognition on the Wii. And then perhaps less favourable comparisons to Move (whose release I'm guessing has prompted Nintendo to release the new Wiimote).

I say too late because the buzz of M+ has worn off and the Wii arguably only has another year, 2 at max, before we see Nintendo's successor console (or at least the announcement).

Then I could be entirely wrong and should Flingsmash/Zelda: SS go on to sell over, say, 10 million, it may convince developers to release more M+ games quickly.

Logically why reject? US consumers rejected the DeLorean... Just saying. Most people do not operate on logic, simply said. Though they should, but that's another matter entirely...

In this case the obvious methods are; the safe play - only offer the add-on to start, the mixed-risk play - offer both an integrated unit and an add-on from the beginning, and the (over)confident risk play - only offer the integrated unit from day 1. Trust me, they looked at these options and possibly others too. They have experts, and better information than we do and they chose the safe-play in the end. It's possible an outsider could make a better argument to go a different way, but they were not who they chose to listen to are they? Also, having the majority market share, risk is less attractive to them now than it was pre-Wii. Wii itself was a huge risk, so aggregated, their safe play involved more total risk than their competition is even willing to take now, since Nintendo wedged the market, they are simply following with their versions. Risk has to be mitigated and managed very carefully. And I can not see a proportional greater reward then they've achieved currently by adding more risk to the process. I'm assuming they couldn't see a probable risk/reward path for any other option either.

Sony and MS are also taking safe-plays making their motion control systems completely optional... That's actually safer for them than the add-on only M+ option was for Nintendo truth be told. I don't get what you're driving at. It's easy to say now that M+ would be adopted or even that the Wii would surely succeed. Unfortunately, that's not how the reality of the situation works. You can't operate backwards in time and take advantage of unknowns, until you go to the pound and adopt Mr. Peabody anyway.

Keep this in mind: How did six-axis integration work out for Sony? I bet they wish it hadn't integrated so they could have dropped it from Dual Shock 3... Also, apples and oranges there. Nintendo is in a unique position, unprecedented actually. Sony and MS just started taking this seriously a little over a year ago by what they've been saying at shows and interviews. How long did they maintain that they had no interest in motion control? They were obviously either wrong, or lying. The Wii scheme is the metric to compare their systems to now. Move should be getting favorable reviews compared to Wii even with M+. If it got bad or even indifferent reviews, it would be a worthless endeavor. Watching reaction to Kinect bear that in mind because it will only apply to them twice-fold. It will be compared to Wii and Move. If it gets mostly favorable reviews then it just might be the best system for motion control... If not, well, they goofed.

You can say these things all that you want, but can you make a logical induction that coincides with the facts to make a case? That's much more persuasive than, "I think it would have been better this way..." And even if you did, ultimately, it wouldn't matter outside of a fun little thought exercise for us.

[Bojay1997]

It's hardly anything so dramatic.

It's simply a logical step to integrate Motion Plus into future Wiimotes. Everyone knew this was eventually going to happen the minute we found out about Motion Plus.



How did you arrive at that conclusion? There are 75 million + Wii's out there and probably well over 150 million Wiimotes, the vast majority of which don't have the Motion Plus attachment. Integrating it into future Wiimotes hardly erases the obvious fact that the vast majority of your consumer base doesn't have a Motion Plus add-on.

The only games ever coming out that are Motion Plus compatible will be those where there is a compelling reason to support the attachment, such as in Skyward Sword. You will never see Motion Plus compatibility become anything near universal on this platform. It simply isn't needed and doesn't make any sense to support or require in the vast majority of games.

Strongly agree. This is just standard Nintendo tinkering with an existing product to see if they can grab some additional sales on a non-critical technology to their core strategy. They will move a million units at least with Flingsmash and probably more when they sell it separately. It won't convince any additional developers to support the technology most likely and if Skyward Sword does come out for Wii (I'm still skeptical and believe it may get pushed to the next iteration of Nintendo console), we'll probably see a bundle version or a strong consumer education campaign to push the integrated Motion Plus. Frankly, whether it catches on or not, Nintendo couldn't care less. They still have the two leading video game platforms and will likely continue to lead numerically at least for another few years until the next generation and the race starts again.