What's so great about RPGs?

[armonigann]

Hi everyone,

What is so awesome about rpgs?

Why are they so expensive?

What are the best titles for beginners or for those who enjoy more fast paced games?

I would like to truley understand what it is that gamers love about rpgs to really see what I'm missing out on.

Thanks for the answers.

[kupomogli]

I would like to truley understand what it is that gamers love about rpgs to really see what I'm missing out on.

With most genres, aside from a few changes, it's usually the exact same game with a different coat of paint. Obviously physics, etc, are going to change, but there's only going to be a handful of powerup unique to each game. That's not say any other genre doesn't also carry its share of great games, its just that RPGs feel more diverse. With RPGs, while it'll be similar, they're usually fairly different from types of attacks, strategies, ways you enter battle, etc. For example you're going to have a very different experience playing Wild ARMs 3 over Suikoden 3, or playing Final Fantasy Mystic Quest over 7th Saga, etc.

Also. In my opinion, music really adds to the video game and RPGs usually have a much larger soundtrack than any other game(check out the Wild ARMs 3 soundtrack.) It's usually based on the fact that most every game is starting to have multiple battle themes, town themes, dungeon themes, etc. Since RPGs are so large in scope you'll usually have dozens of dungeons so it would be fairly boring to have the same couple tracks in them all(though sometimes but rarely they repeat.)

Then there's the fact that usually RPGs have much more depth to the storylines, last longer, and seem to feel like a more polished experience altogether. They also carry a tried and true system, much like your average FPS, so you just build on that system to make an enjoyable game.

[BetaWolf47]

The thing is, they have an amazing sense of accomplishment for single-player games. The plot is often rewarding, you get stronger the more you play, and it draws you in. They tend to engage the typical retrogamer a lot more than, say, platformers, shmups, sports games, and the like. We enjoy the feeling that we are involved in something big, like saving the world as a spiky-haired brave dude from a long-haired emo dude with the help of friends.

[Aussie2B]

Have you not tried out any or have you tried some and just didn't "get" it? There's no genre that'll appeal to everyone, so if you've already tried, then maybe they're just not for you.

If you want ones that are fast-paced, then now is probably the best time to start trying RPGs. Starting with the original PlayStation, a lot of the more modern RPGs have battle systems that are much more frantic and exciting than the older, purely turn-based titles. Since it's my favorite series and offers fast, addictive battles, I'll recommend Star Ocean.

[NayusDante]

The answer to your question is different for each era. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to assume that you mean console RPGs. If you're talking about computer RPGs, then the simple answer is "it's Dungeons & Dragons on your computer."

80s
Games like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest took the Dungeons & Dragons number-crunching combat and integrated it in a large-scale fantasy adventure game. At the time, (86-87), games were still more action-oriented. Things like story depth, character development, and the need for multiple sittings to work through the game were very uncommon at the time. Instead of twitch-action, these games had slow complexity. Instead of just an attack button, your character has many abilities. At the time, that sort of thing wasn't possible in a real-time action game, with Zelda being the closest thing. In short, they were great because they offered something new and exciting compared to what had been seen before.

90s
The 90s saw a huge shift in the focus of the RPG. While stories became more complex, the actual plot became more linear. The focus was on telling a more cinematic story than was possible in action and adventure games. You no longer played the generic hero that just had to save the princess, now there's an evil empire to overthrow, and your characters' pasts interfere along the way. Battle systems continued to follow the simulated D&D combat format somewhat, but the battles start to feel disconnected from the story. Most every game has a boss fight where after you win, the villain gets away. Still, 90s RPGs were amazing for their focus on graphics, story, and technical advancements.

2000-2010
This is where RPGs started to really suck. Look at Final Fantasy X, a fully-voiced cinematic production that still follows the old format of field exploration and battles. The battles are such a stark departure from the story that it's hard to take the whole thing seriously. Lost Odyssey isn't much different, though it feels like what FFX should have been. FFXIII's field segments are absolutely worthless, and the battles are linear and boring, making it perhaps the worst RPG ever made. FFXIII is, however, a competent anime, which is what makes modern RPGs "great." Yeah, play a modern RPG if you feel like watching an interactive anime. You're essentially watching an anime where you have to win a boss fight before you're allowed to watch the next episode.


If you've never played an RPG before, I strongly suggest picking up Chrono Trigger DS (http://www.amazon.com/Chrono-Trigger-Nintendo-DS/dp/B001E27DLM/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1288453737&sr=1-1) ($18 new) and Final Fantasy Anthology (http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-Anthology-Playstation/dp/B00002R28C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288453686&sr=8-1) ($12 new). These games are from the height of what we call the "RPG" genre, and are arguably the best examples of the format. If you want to "play a role," as in play a simulated roleplay, pick up Oblivion (http://www.amazon.com/Elder-Scrolls-IV-Oblivion-Playstation-3/dp/B000TVT7U4/ref=sr_1_2?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1288453770&sr=1-2), which I would describe as a real-time action-adventure simulation. I wouldn't call Oblivion an "RPG," at least not in the way the term is thrown around in regard to video games, even though it ironically fits the description of role-playing game better than 90% of what we DO call RPGs. The problem is that, being action-adventure video games, the modern western RPGs are still video games, and therefore are not true role-playing games. They're designed to be played with video game logic (I need to level up X skill to beat the boss), not role-playing logic (if I switched sides, I wouldn't have to fight him at all).

As far as why some are so expensive, it's because they had limited print runs. Most RPGs that you see priced above $50 were only produced to meet demand at the time. It took a long time for RPGs to gain mainstream acceptance in the US, so RPG fans were a niche crowd. FF7 is the exception, because while it sold extremely well and even had a rather long Greatest Hits pressing, the demand for it is high enough to drive the price up. Where RPGs used to be a genre embraced by the more literate crowd, FF7's popularity has (for some reason) reached a large number of people that probably can't even spell RPG.

[tom]

Most Jap RPGs suck, but US based RPGs are the better RPGs to play.
80s had the excellent Ultima series, the Bard's Tale series, Might and Magic series, The Magic Candle series, Questron series, Phantasie series, even the Gold box series. Wizard's Crown is a real classic still today, all these RPGs had excellent charcater development, real depth stories etc....
Later US RPGs like the Kyrandia series during the 90s were always far better, with deeper plots, more funny than any Japanese RPGs. Just play Book 2, it's still a classic.

[Gameguy]

Later US RPGs like the Kyrandia series during the 90s were always far better, with deeper plots, more funny than any Japanese RPGs. Just play Book 2, it's still a classic.
Except the 90's Kyrandia series were all adventure games and not RPGs....

Anyway, I haven't played many RPGs but I'm starting to get into them. I'm playing through Phantasy Star as I found a copy of the Phantasy Star collection for the GBA. I find it interesting that for the most part you're free to travel anywhere you like whenever you want, what limits you is your experience. Obviously it's still pretty linear as you have to go through sections of the game in a certain order so you can progress further, it just doesn't feel as linear compared to games with defined levels. A big motivation with RPGs are the stories, if the story is terrible or boring I won't feel like playing through the game as there's no finished product to work towards.

It seems like RPGs have more story, exploration, customization, and strategy mixed together compared to other genres. I still prefer RPGs that are more linear, I don't like wandering aimlessly for hours without knowing what I'm supposed to do, I like having clear goals that I'm supposed to work towards like knowing where I'm supposed to try heading next or who I'm supposed to search for. I also don't want to be overburdened with too many options to choose from, even having to select which types of characters make up my party(Fighter, Thief, Black Belt, Red Mage, White Mage, Black Mage, etc) is way more choice than I'd want. Eventually I'll try to play the original Final Fantasy again, when I tried it before it just seemed like a ton of work to play it, almost like installing computer hardware.

[hellraiser]

I could never really get into rpg's...

It sucks cause i know im really missin out on some epic games but I have that short attention span that enjoys instant gradification. LOL!!!

A short while back when i got int rero-gaming i thought that maybe my mind has changed since becoming an adult. I had some friends recomend Zelda II to me as a good beginer rpg since it had some platformig parts. I picked up a clean copy for 5 bucks off a local craigslist ad. I was amazed the game had saves on it from god knows when. I erassed them and started my own adventure. No dice. It just wasant for me...

I still have the game. It looks good in my collection because evryone remembers that gold cart. Hell who knows maybe after another 20 years my mind will have matured enough!!!

[retroman]

Just give the Dragon Quest series a shot, and you will understand..

[Steven]

I never liked RPGs "back in the day"... but in the past 7 years or so have become interested in them as my gaming taste "matured" so to speak. I used to think they were slow and boring and plodding.

But now, I like a sweeping adventure quest... I like talking to townsfolk, gathering clues, hearing random nonsensical gossip, etc. It takes on a life all its own. Video games are about escapism... and nothing does that quite as well as a quality RPG :)

[Gameguy]

A short while back when i got int rero-gaming i thought that maybe my mind has changed since becoming an adult. I had some friends recomend Zelda II to me as a good beginer rpg since it had some platformig parts. I picked up a clean copy for 5 bucks off a local craigslist ad. I was amazed the game had saves on it from god knows when. I erassed them and started my own adventure. No dice. It just wasant for me...
I couldn't get into the second Zelda game, though it has RPG elements it plays like a sidescroller and I just die way to quick. It may be playable but I have more enjoyable games that I'd rather play instead. Maybe I'll try it again but it won't be that soon.

I couldn't get into Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior either. I played the first game for 10 minutes before I got sick of it. I couldn't take the stairs without selecting the option "Stairs" from the menu. It's not a complex decision like what to do during a battle, I don't want to be bothered with trivial stuff like that.

I feel RPGs are like crossword or sudoku puzzles, they're mostly something to do just to pass the time. You don't need to blow through it all at once, just work on it when you feel like it. If you lack the patience to do puzzles like that you might not have the patience to play an RPG with all the grinding you'll have to do. You could try the Phantasy Star series, the fourth one is the best but I personally want to play them in order so I started with the first one. Shining Force is a good Tactical RPG, I've only played it briefly but liked it so far. Supposedly Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure for the DS is intended to be a beginner's RPG, I have a copy but haven't got around to trying it yet so I can't comment on how good it is. I'm really not big on RPGs at all(a few years ago I think I said I hated the genre), but I'm actually enjoying some of them now so there could be some out there that you'll enjoy too.

There should be a list of good RPGs, you could try some from this list;
http://www.epinions.com/content_3345850500

[kupomogli]

I couldn't get into Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior either. I played the first game for 10 minutes before I got sick of it. I couldn't take the stairs without selecting the option "Stairs" from the menu. It's not a complex decision like what to do during a battle, I don't want to be bothered with trivial stuff like that.

That's definitely the wrong Dragon Warrior to start out with if you've ever played another RPG. It was my first RPG and at the time it was amazing game, but it was only amazing because it was the only one I've ever played. Even when Final Fantasy came out I still liked it but Final Fantasy was so much better.

Now that there are many more RPGs to compare it to, the original Dragon Warrior is just one of the worst. Regardless if you play the NES, SNES, or GBA version it's such a boring game. This is from someone who loved the original game.

If you're going to play a Dragon Quest game I'd recommend starting at Dragon Quest 3. The third game is a direct prequel and the second half of the game is the first game pretty much, so in a way I like the first game a lot just really hate how much of a massive grind it is. Now every single NES Dragon Warrior requires you to press the A button to use the stairs, so if you don't want to do that option then either play the Gameboy Color or SNES(fan translated) version. The GBC version is the latest has extra dungeons, but the SNES version has some of the most beautiful graphics on the system. Dragon Quest 4 is good on both the NES and DS in English, Dragon Quest 5 is on DS and SNES in English, Dragon Warrior 7 is tied as my favorite with Dragon Warrior 3, Dragon Warrior 8 on PS2 is okay, and Dragon Quest 9 is pretty boring.

[NE146]

I wouldn't say Dragon Quest 9 is pretty boring.. pretty much the opposite. It's extremely well polished and while it's a JRPG through and through, it's obviously a current generation game with pretty much everything learned about JRPG's over the past 2 decades rolled into it. But to each his own. :p

To answer the original question though, I guess it's just something you have to have the enthusiasm to "immerse" yourself in and view it as an all-encompassing world that you are traveling and having an adventure in. If you don't have the time or the willingness to do that, then you'll probably not enjoy any RPG game no matter the type.

[Baloo]

I've always found RPGs to really be a kind of game where it's played for the storyline and music. The overall menu-battle gameplay and grindfests that most RPGs consist of never appealed to me.

I like Dungeon Crawlers, Action RPGs, and Turn-Based Strategy games though. Shining in the Darkness, Popful Mail, and the Fire Emblem series I definitely enjoyed. But games like Chrono Trigger, the Lunars, and the Final Fantasies I don't care for. Even Pokemon I find is too monotonous now.

[DuckTalesNES]

If you're looking for some to try out, here are my suggestions:

Old:
Chronotrigger (amazing gameplay), Final Fantasy VII (the rpg I was most immersed in)

New:
Mass Effect

I thought new RPG's were absolutely horrible after playing Final Fantasy XIII. Then I played Mass Effect and my faith was renewed.

[Rickstilwell1]

If I was telling someone who only played action games to start playing RPGs, I would naturally start them off with action RPGs/fantasy adventures with storylines. Things like Alundra, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, Diablo II, Zelda: A Link to the Past, Neutopia, King's Field, Morrowind, Oblivion, Faxanadu or things of those various styles. The appeal of instant gratification of killing monsters might draw them in, then they would get used to stories, talking to characters, leveling up in some cases, and searching for important items.

After that they might enjoy RPGs where actions during fight scenes makes a difference. Beyond the Beyond might be a grindfest, but is well drawn for its 2D world and only having battles in 3D and includes an APS system where if you hit buttons repeatedly you have a chance of scoring critical hits. Paper Mario and The Legend of Dragoon are more respected games that have elements like this.

Pokemon is good for training people to know what elements are usually strong against others. More advanced RPGs like classic Final Fantasy games often have spells that affect certain elements of enemies better than others. Cast fire on ice monsters or thunder on water monsters for example.

The only advantage of starting with Dragon Warrior 1 is that you only have one character to take care of. It does get you used to healing yourself at the appropriate times and makes you remember to buy weapons and stay at inns as needed. If you know where everything is, you can beat the game in less than 16 hours. One day I sat through the whole thing without stopping until I was done.

[Wolfrider31]

In the early days, and for me at least, Japanese RPGs (with exceptions given for games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment) always won out over Western RPGs. I thought the depth of plot, characterization and focus on cinematography were generally superior in games from the east.

Starting in the PS2 days things started to get a little rocky though. There were still tons of fantastic JRPGs but the amount of mediocre quests to embark on steadily grew. Now JRPGs are largely unmitigated garbage. There are a few exceptions (Lost Odyssey being one) but the sheer amount of crap you have to wade through to find a JRPG that's even half playable is pretty disheartening.

I see a couple of reasons for this. First of all, Japanese development houses have had some serious growing pains just adapting to the tech of this generation. If you look at a lot of Japanese developed games they're aesthetically far behind their western counterparts. Simple things like bump offsetting and normal mapping seem be non existent in many Japanese games and it just looks like, technically speaking, Japanese developers aren't nearly as skilled as their Western counterparts. Considering the trend use to be the reverse, I'm kind of surprised.

Another problem is that Japanese RPGs are so niche focused now. Just look at NIS - tons of RPGs designed for the super hardcore uber otaku with jokes, references and systems that are so obscure no one in their right mind would expect them to interesting to mainstream audiences.

However, if you look at western RPGS they've excelled by leaps and bounds. Not only are they technically superior the sheer variety of play style means that no matter what kind of gamer you are you can find a WRPG that suits your tastes.

Like shooters? Check out Borderlands?
Like narrative driven experiences that play like films? Bioware is your answer.
Like hack and slashy action oriented games? Diablo, Torchlight and Deathspank sound up your alley.
Like bizarre, obscure, funny games? Check out Penny Arcade Adventures or Costume Quest.

The versatility of the genre is what makes it so popular and, right now at least, western developers have that nailed.

[tomaitheous]

Most Jap RPGs suck, but US based RPGs are the better RPGs to play.

Heh. Now all your opinions make sense. You're not a console gamer, you're an old school PC gamer.

[jonebone]

As most people have already stated, it's basically the whole "immersion" experience that you feel. The plot / storyline sucks you in and you actually feel more accomplished by the end due to all of the experience / levels / skills you've acquired as you've progressed.

It's nice when the game forces you to revisit a previous area after you've leveled up a bit. You encounter the enemies and blow through them realizing just how strong you've become.

[poloplayr]

Escapism.

When I was younger, I couldn't appreciate them - much in the same way I didn't appreciate books.

[Xtincthed]

i made a post about why I think rpg's are great a while back
http://www.playstationcollecting.com/general/rpgs-are-the-pinnacle-of-gaming

pretty much sums it up for me :)

[Gavica]

Best RPGs of All Time:

1. Chronno Trigger (SNES)
2. Dragon Warrior (NES)
3. Warsong (Genesis)
4. Ultima: Exodus (NES)
5. Final Fantasy 7 (PS1)

[armonigann]

Escapism.

When I was younger, I couldn't appreciate them - much in the same way I didn't appreciate books.

:above me: very well put!

[NayusDante]

What I find odd is that I could enjoy them when I was younger, but not so much now. The feeling of escapism went away with the years...

[Rob2600]

If you're looking for some to try out, here are my suggestions:

Old:
Chronotrigger (amazing gameplay), Final Fantasy VII (the rpg I was most immersed in)

I'd add EarthBound (SNES), Super Mario RPG (SNES), and Paper Mario (N64) to that list. :)

[SpaceHarrier]

RPGs have touched me in a way no woman ever would. I'd say what I find appealing about them is the character development, storyline detail, overall art design, and of course (on the gameplay side) that massive amount of paperwork management some of them demand. I just love crunching all those numbers... how long till I level up, my magic abilities increase, can I afford the better armor? That sort of thing.

Fast paced? Try Final Fantasy XII, the battles are rarely more than a few seconds long, there is no transition into a separate fighting field, and the game more or less plays itself. Rarely does it actually require or even ask for your input.

Er.. on second thought..

[HappehLemons]

Here's my problem with RPGS. (JRPGS at least, and please prove me wrong)
The gameplay is boring and requires almost no skill what-so-ever.
If you're looking for a story driven fantasy, with great music with (normally) some of the best graphics on the system with high production and cinematic values RPGs are great I guess. Over time RPGS have become very cliche and are really a dieing bread of videogames. Even the newest JRPGS like FFXII still are stuck in a world where you literally press one button for combat..

[NayusDante]

At least in recent JRPGs like FFX and Xenosaga, there's a strategy to the battle system. Those games actually let you plan your moves ahead of time, and you could use skills to push enemies further down the initiative tracker. I thought this was a lot more strategic than just casting Slow and Haste. It turned the turn-based-combat model into a thinking gamem requiring you to plan several rounds ahead of time for most boss battles.

The problem is that that's the only defense I can think of. Pretty much everything else is indeed boring.

[DuckTalesNES]

Have any of you guys played Mass Effect? Do you consider it to be an RPG? Mass Effect is amazing. There are some good RPG's still out there. For as bad as Final Fantasy XIII was and how I never wanted to play another RPG, Mass Effect redeemed them for me.

[NerdXCrewWill]

Role playing games, while not often requiring dexterity or other physical skill, often do allow for using strategy to play. Grinding reduces the fun that can be found in the battling. The real fun is playing at lower levels and developing strategies to overcome your disadvantage. This isn't possible with a game such as Dragon Warrior, but some RPGs allow for a surprising amount of strategies. Final Fantasy XII included.

I'm not claiming they're as deep as chess or anything, but they're more than interactive movies involving tapping a button on the "fight" command to win. Sounds like you guys are playing bad RPGs or playing them in a way that ruins game balance.

Also, I'm sure you know about the appeal found in western role playing games that allow actual role playing without the need to manually crunch numbers on pen and paper. Role playing is a fun activity that some people value more than skill based challenge.

[SpaceHarrier]

Here's my problem with RPGS. (JRPGS at least, and please prove me wrong)
The gameplay is boring and requires almost no skill what-so-ever.


I think this might actually be why I got into RPGs in the first place. I was in a gaming slump, tired of endless platformers and other twitch games. Finding RPGs was like a sweet respite from actually having to be skilled to complete a game, yet still feeling like I accomplished something. Could just be me though. I still play the odd one, Like Persona 3, yet I have a huge backlog of unfinished PS1 era RPGs that will take quite a while to sort through. I've since returned primarily to those twitch games, both modern and classic..

But hey, I would have gotten into RPGs years earlier (as a child, rather than in my later teens), but when I asked my mom to get me Dragon Warrior she looked at the pictures in Nintendo Power and said, "That doesn't look like very much fun."

Slimes looked cool. And I wanted to obtain and use herbs, whatever that meant.

[j_factor]

Here's my problem with RPGS. (JRPGS at least, and please prove me wrong)
The gameplay is boring and requires almost no skill what-so-ever.

I don't see anything wrong with games not requiring skill. As long as they provide a compelling experience. Lots of adventure games require no skill.

That said, some of my favorite RPGs are the ones that do require skill.


If you're looking for a story driven fantasy, with great music with (normally) some of the best graphics on the system with high production and cinematic values RPGs are great I guess. Over time RPGS have become very cliche and are really a dieing bread of videogames. Even the newest JRPGS like FFXII still are stuck in a world where you literally press one button for combat..

You have to wonder why they even bother. I liked Ys Book I & II, which simplified combat to just bumping into enemies. I've always wondered why that approach never caught on.

[Rickstilwell1]

Role playing games, while not often requiring dexterity or other physical skill, often do allow for using strategy to play. Grinding reduces the fun that can be found in the battling. The real fun is playing at lower levels and developing strategies to overcome your disadvantage. This isn't possible with a game such as Dragon Warrior, but some RPGs allow for a surprising amount of strategies. Final Fantasy XII included.

I'm not claiming they're as deep as chess or anything, but they're more than interactive movies involving tapping a button on the "fight" command to win. Sounds like you guys are playing bad RPGs or playing them in a way that ruins game balance.

I know exactly what you mean. Final Fantasy I- V would take countless hours of grinding if you never wanted to try magic spell strategies and IIIj is nearly impossible without good strategy.

[HappehLemons]

I know exactly what you mean. Final Fantasy I- V would take countless hours of grinding if you never wanted to try magic spell strategies and IIIj is nearly impossible without good strategy.

Ninja + throwing star?

Don't get me wrong, I really do like RPGs (FFIII is my favorite). They have done a lot for gaming in ways that other genres just dont do. But when people say that they take strategy I've always taken this term with a grain of salt when it is used to describe a jRPG.

The "strategy" it takes to learn how to play most jrpgs hardly ever goes beyond putting up some kind of protect spell, learning an elemental weakness, deciding when to and when not to defend/heal and hoping for a little bit of luck (more or less depending on your level) in a turn based manner.

I'm going to make an assumption that jRPGs are so popular because of this gameplay staple. Because the level of skill it takes to beat them is so low in comparison to other types of games they are easily accessible to many more people. Fans that play these games are looking for this type of unevolving relaxed type of gameplay.. and since it really never changes betweens other jRPGs it's easy to recommended.

[kupomogli]

Here's my problem with RPGS. (JRPGS at least, and please prove me wrong) The gameplay is boring and requires almost no skill what-so-ever.

I enjoy jRPGs more because they're not as open as western RPGs. They are involving without becoming too tedious. While I do enjoy some western RPGs, you're down to literally every detail of every character, quests that you may have not even been to the town, much less even heard of it, usually never given any information in regards to what you're doing, yet you can still go absolutely anywhere in the game.

When you're talking about skill, more knowledge of a games mechanics can be considered having more skill. An example is how everyone states that you're "required" to grind hours on end in the original Final Fantasy. Depending on the party you can either beat it with no grinding or very slight grinding as the marsh cave is a little bit difficult for most party combinations under level 7.

But let's not talk about Final Fantasy and we'll even avoid tactical RPGs where strategy is a key element.

So we'll start with Wild ARMs 3. You have what seems like such a limited amount of customization but it's quite large. At first the game is nothing more than shoot these enemies, use your force abilities, etc. Once you acquire runes, you can use multiple different spells each, gives you certain percentage of stat increases in certain areas, as well as a specific amount of innate abilities to level or delevel.) Switching them around your party members whether it's to take advantage of the runes in battle, increase a characters stats, or the innate abilities is a lot of strategy to the game. You can even change runes and innate abilities mid battle.

But aside from Wild ARMs 3, there's Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, and although much easier, Pokemon. These games are nothing but strategy. The original SMT game is where I believe Nintendo got their inspiration for Pokemon with enemy weaknesses which are the basis for the gameplay.

SMT Nocturne introduced press turns. Also in DDS, Persona 3, and Persona 4. Being that every enemy has a strength and weakness, or some just have strengths you'd have to learn what their weakness are and strengths are and use or avoid using those. Using an attack without hitting a weakness, doing a critical, and actually hitting the opponent would take a full press turn. Hitting a weakness, a critical attack, or passing to a different character would take half a press turn. Enemies voiding damage and dodging would take two, while absorbing or reflecting damage back would take three or four. Enemies also follow this so their turns may be longer or shorter depending on weaknesses or strengths hit. This game has quite a bit more strategy required than Pokemon as well as it being a much more difficult game. It's like Pokemon but instead of just taking off less damage against enemies when using an attack they're strong against, you get raped.

While DDS you can change your skills at every whim, on Nocturne you will want to build your character whatever way you want to build him, as well as your monsters. That as well is a strategy as you'll be building what you'd assume is the best group of characters to take to battle. It's like playing Armored Core. You can make a full on attack AC, but what happens when the other AC is in some way better than yours? You might want to have some diversity in attack, or maybe you want to focus' on both attack and defense. So yeah. How you build your team is also a strategy.

[HappehLemons]

I enjoy jRPGs more because they're not as open as western RPGs. They are involving without becoming too tedious. While I do enjoy some western RPGs, you're down to literally every detail of every character, quests that you may have not even been to the town, much less even heard of it, usually never given any information in regards to what you're doing, yet you can still go absolutely anywhere in the game.

When you're talking about skill, more knowledge of a games mechanics can be considered having more skill. An example is how everyone states that you're "required" to grind hours on end in the original Final Fantasy. Depending on the party you can either beat it with no grinding or very slight grinding as the marsh cave is a little bit difficult for most party combinations under level 7.

But let's not talk about Final Fantasy and we'll even avoid tactical RPGs where strategy is a key element.

So we'll start with Wild ARMs 3. You have what seems like such a limited amount of customization but it's quite large. At first the game is nothing more than shoot these enemies, use your force abilities, etc. Once you acquire runes, you can use multiple different spells each, gives you certain percentage of stat increases in certain areas, as well as a specific amount of innate abilities to level or delevel.) Switching them around your party members whether it's to take advantage of the runes in battle, increase a characters stats, or the innate abilities is a lot of strategy to the game. You can even change runes and innate abilities mid battle.

But aside from Wild ARMs 3, there's Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, and although much easier, Pokemon. These games are nothing but strategy. The original SMT game is where I believe Nintendo got their inspiration for Pokemon with enemy weaknesses which are the basis for the gameplay.

SMT Nocturne introduced press turns. Also in DDS, Persona 3, and Persona 4. Being that every enemy has a strength and weakness, or some just have strengths you'd have to learn what their weakness are and strengths are and use or avoid using those. Using an attack without hitting a weakness, doing a critical, and actually hitting the opponent would take a full press turn. Hitting a weakness, a critical attack, or passing to a different character would take half a press turn. Enemies voiding damage and dodging would take two, while absorbing or reflecting damage back would take three or four. Enemies also follow this so their turns may be longer or shorter depending on weaknesses or strengths hit. This game has quite a bit more strategy required than Pokemon as well as it being a much more difficult game as well. It's like Pokemon but instead of just taking off less damage off enemies when using an attack they're strong against, you get raped.

While DDS you can change your skills at every whim, on Nocturne you will want to build your character whatever way you want to build him, as well as your monsters. That as well is a strategy as you'll be building what you'd assume is the best group of characters to take to battle. It's like playing Armored Core. You can make a full on attack AC, but what happens when the other AC is in some way better than yours? You might want to have some diversity in attack, or maybe you want to focus' on both attack and defense. So yeah. How you build your team is also a strategy.

To be honest I see tactical RPGs in a different section from RPGs, same thing with Action RPGs so if you did make that argument that they do take skill (which i know you didn't) I'd agree with you.

My experience with jRPGs has always been mainstream (Final Fantasy, DQ ect..) and my experience has almost always been the same. In your experience which do you think is best in the sense that they take "skill" to play? I havn't played a lot of the games you listed so I can't really agree/disagree with any of your points, but I'm definitely willing to give them a try and see for myself.

[kupomogli]

To a degree all RPGs are skill based. It's all about your knowledge based on enemies and not just what they're weak against but when you go through a random battle you try and think around how much HP did they have, what attacks they may have used, etc, to make it easier on the following battles.

That being said. You're right about he Dragon Warrior series. Knowing the system and how the games work you may be able to progress slightly faster, but that's about it. You'll eventually reach a point in every game in the series, even Dragon Warrior 7, where you have to sit around and grind.

Now if you take it like the fact that in almost every RPG you can grind. Then yes, the games really have no skill because if you can't progress, then just grind until you can. But the point is is that you don't have to grind and can get away with minimal grinding on most RPGs. Even the hard ones, excluding ones that are straight grinders like FF3, most Dragon Warrior games, and others.

[NE146]

Here's my problem with RPGS. (JRPGS at least, and please prove me wrong)
The gameplay is boring and requires almost no skill what-so-ever.
If you're looking for a story driven fantasy, with great music with (normally) some of the best graphics on the system with high production and cinematic values RPGs are great I guess. Over time RPGS have become very cliche and are really a dieing bread of videogames. Even the newest JRPGS like FFXII still are stuck in a world where you literally press one button for combat..

Probably true in many instances.. although that's not always necessarily a bad thing. The gameplay in the original SMS Phantasy Star 1 required zero skills pretty much, but getting through the story was still difficult.

I think you're also forgetting about tactical RPG's. To say they require no skill what-so-ever is like saying that Chess or Checkers take no skill. Sure.. no "twitch" skill, but it does take a type of mental skill nonetheless. :)

[HappehLemons]

Probably true in many instances.. although that's not always necessarily a bad thing. The gameplay in the original SMS Phantasy Star 1 required zero skills pretty much, but getting through the story was still difficult.

I think you're also forgetting about tactical RPG's. To say they require no skill what-so-ever is like saying that Chess or Checkers take no skill. Sure.. no "twitch" skill, but it does take a type of mental skill nonetheless. :)


Yeh, see my last post. I see tacticals in a different class and do believe that they require the player to think beyond an everyday level.

[exit]

I used to be a big fan of jRPGs up until about 5 years ago, where I pretty much couldn't play them anymore, at least not any of the newer ones. The only jRPG series I can find myself putting any time into is Shin Megami Tensei, which are the only ones that can hold my attention for more than a few minutes. I can play the Action/RPG games just fine and even some of the Strategy RPGs, but other than that they just don't do it for me anymore.

[Xtincthed]

i usually prefer jrpg's over western because they guide you on a path.. in stuff like Mass Effect and Oblivion it's too open, I want a compelling story that pretty much takes you from A to B with a few optional side paths

Dragon Age Origins is the first western rpg that gives me freedom of choice that i DO like

[JSoup]

It's a mix of things for me. I love stories, I grew up reading stories and now I study stories in college. Games are an interesting way to tell a story that is both interesting an unique. RPGs tend to have compelling stories, depending on the series, mixed with some basic gameplay elements tossed in for added value.

Ignoring all that, I love items and am OCD about lists/upgrades, so the concept of leveling and grinding comes as something like second nature to me.

[dra600n]

People like RPG's for various reasons. What's the best is all a matter of opinion, unless you go by sales then it would be games like FF7, Chrono Trigger, etc.

My personal favorites:
Secret of Mana, FF3 (SNES), FF3j, and Dragon Quest 8.

RPG's take skill to a degree. Sure, it's not a button mashing session or run through shooting things, but you need to make sure your characters attack or cast spells before certain things happen to your party, and so on. Plus figuring out puzzles and where to go. It might not take a lot of skill, but it's there.

To me, RPG's are like reading a really good novel, except with the aid of visuals to enhance the experience.