What's the beef with Zelda II and Castlevania II?? [Archive]

Oldskool

11-02-2010, 03:11 AM

It's actually the ONLY Zelda game that I've completed (of course this was what, 20 years ago), and I actually highly enjoyed the game. I thought it was great myself. The graphics and the music were pretty good. I liked the platforming aspects of it, and the over world was cool. Never understood why it got such a bad rep.

What is it about it that everyone hates? Is it because it's sort of the "odd ball" Zelda? I actually much prefer it over the original Zelda.

Then there is Castlevania II - Simon's Quest. This is one of my favorite Castlevanias of all time! It really introduced a lot of new ideas to the series, things that are still used to this day. Hell it was practically the model for later "Metroidvania" style games. The music was great, the graphics were good, the controls were not bad at all. The atmosphere was eerie. What's the beef? Do people just dislike it because it's the "Odd Ball" of the bunch similar to Zelda II?

Thoughts?

buzz_n64

11-02-2010, 03:23 AM

http://glory2glory76.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/beef1.jpg?w=320&h=296

I totally agree, and I feel the same about Super Mario Bros 2. I hate it when people point out how it's the odd ball. Every single Mario game up until then was different.

Donkey Kong - Single screen platformer with hammer as weapon, against an ape

Donkey Kong Jr. - Single screen platformer, but now as a bad guy against DK Jr.

Mario Bros. - Single screen 2 player option, hitting below enemies to knock them over, then go and slide into them to kill them.

Super Mario Bros. - Side scrolling platformer where you now jump on enemies to kill them, and alternate with Luigi.

Super Mario Bros. 2 - Side scrolling platformer where you grab enemies and items, and throw them, and now you have 4 characters to choose from!

Rickstilwell1

11-02-2010, 03:36 AM

This topic looks familiar. I loved the Mario, and Zelda 2's but never really got into the Castlevanias in general.

You could also say Sonic 2 for Game Gear is another #2 oddball because it had no special stages like the others.

TurboGenesis

11-02-2010, 08:43 AM

I have to say that people don't like them because they are far different from the first games… (same goes for SMB 2)
BUT back in 1988, when these games were new, everyone loved them and were happy to play them! I believe the internets age has bred angst among these sequels to legendary classics…
the only game that had any dislike was Castlevania II and it was because it was "too easy" (only challenging part was the part at the lake), but was liked otherwise…

for me, I love the IIs - I like how they took a chance to revitalize the game and make it fresh while staying close to the heritage of the first game… today, Zelda II, SMB 2, and Simon's Quest are among my favorites in their franchise!

NE146

11-02-2010, 09:26 AM

I've always ignored anything I've read dissing these 2 games, because Zelda 2 is actually one of my favorite games of all time.. and the music still resonates in my brain. :p Sure Zelda 2 was different.. but I've always simply thought of it as a Zelda side story, and it still completely has that Miyamoto magic in it and is completely FUN. SNES Zelda satisfied everyone later on anyway.

Castlevania 2 on the other hand.. I loved it, but it hasn't aged as well. The odd requirements for advancing give it a black eye but still.. it's one of my old favorites. The music in this game also still strikes a chord with me. :)

Garry Silljo

11-02-2010, 10:01 AM

I have always loved Zelda 2 and Mario 2 US. I have never liked Castlevania 2 and was happy when 3 was more like 1 just with branching paths. I never used strategy guides and Castlevania 2 didn't make any sense without one, thus sucking any enjoyment out of it for me.

todesengel

11-02-2010, 10:02 AM

I love both of these games as well but I kinda understand peoples dislike of them. Like others have already mentioned it was probably the drastic change in gameplay style that most people didn't like. Most of the complaints I always hear about the games is Castlevania 2 is confusing and hard to navigate, while Zelda 2 was now a sidescroller instead of top-down like the first game.

People sadly really nit-pick horribly with these two games. I can understand not liking Castlevania 2 for being annoying to navigate but the complaints about Zelda 2 are just overblown and ridiculous. Zelda 2 added so much more gameplay wise and deepened the playing experiance and was an amazing game.

exit

11-02-2010, 10:22 AM

All the hate for Simon's Quest didn't really start up until AVGN did a bad review of it and then the Internet exploded with hate for the game. Before then I don't remember hearing that many negative things about the game, but I guess now it's just "cool" to hate it despite the fact that majority of the haters probably haven't even played the damn game.

As for Zelda II, I've always had a strong hatred for the game and it was always a love it or hate it game from what I remember, but again I think the recent AVGN type reviews started the bandwagon of hate for the game as well.

Oh and for the record, Simon's Quest is better than Zelda II. There, I said it.

ShinobiMan

11-02-2010, 10:31 AM

tom

11-02-2010, 02:40 PM

Zelda II is the only Zelda game which is actually very good.

jb143

11-02-2010, 02:42 PM

Zelda II is the only Zelda game which is actually very good.

Correct...and the rest are extremely good!;)

j_factor

11-02-2010, 03:25 PM

Zelda II was actually the first game in the series I played. I didn't like it at all.

Simon's Quest is fine and I don't remember any hatred for it until recently.

Greg2600

11-02-2010, 06:22 PM

I disliked both games then and still do. The reason is simply that both are a PITA to play. Zelda II with the ridiculousness of having to fight pointless battles every 30 seconds while you're walking and walking. Simon's Quest because of the constant dialogue boxes you're forced to look at. It's really an annoyance factor for me. Plus, in both cases, subsequent games made those games really look bad.

E Nice

11-02-2010, 07:38 PM

Castlevania 2 was different, but Idid like it more or less. Only complaint I really had was the lack of bosses? There were several castles but only two of them had bosses (excluding the final one for Dracula).

Zing

11-02-2010, 07:57 PM

No one really hated Zelda II. It wasn't until the 21st century internet that people decided to express any sort of negativity.

I played through the game about a dozen times. I liked it more than the first game.

As for Simon's Quest, the only beef I ever had with it was the insanely obtuse "puzzles". These were all mitigated by Nintendo Power anyway, and everyone read Nintendo Power, so it was no big deal. The environments and music were some of the best on the NES. You have to have some serious balls to say the game is truly "bad".

Both of these games were at the top of the pile back at release. I have to suspect that anyone hating on either was born in 1990 or so. Everyone born before 1980 was creaming their jeans over these titles.

Baloo

11-02-2010, 08:33 PM

Zelda II is alright, I never really cared for the whole sideways battle view. The game is also really difficult compared to the original. Played through the original, never bothered to play through II.

Mario 2 on the other hand I love. Don't see why anyone can hate on it, especially considering how unoriginal and extremely difficult Super Mario Bros. Lost Levels is in comparison. SMB 2 USA is a great game indeed! In fact I haven't really heard much hate on it to be honest.

Never played Castlevania II, but I have the original and that is enough for me to break my controller in frustration. II I've heard is different, a bit less linear and more adventure-based?

retroman

11-02-2010, 11:38 PM

i loved and still like both games..no hate from me..i can remember like it was yesterday getting both games when they were new...

exit

11-03-2010, 12:14 AM

I I've heard is different, a bit less linear and more adventure-based?

It's more of an Action/Adventure game than anything, very nonlinear and (due to the poor translation) the clues given to move forward in the game are very cryptic. Along with Zelda II, it was one of the frontiers that helped pave the way for open world games and kids today should be thanking them instead of bashing them for no good reason.

As for Mario 2, I absolutely loved that game as a kid and it's my favorite Mario game of all time. I know it's not truly a Mario game and was just another game with Mario sprites tacked on because the real Mario Bros. 2 was considered to hard for us Americans, but I still love it nonetheless.

Buapo

11-03-2010, 12:27 AM

When I was younger, I never owned Zelda I... only Zelda II. I could never get very far in it, but liked playing it. I think I was just too stupid back then. I replayed through the whole thing a couple years ago and had little trouble... actually, it was cool to see how large the map was, considering I couldn't get anywhere. Though I definitely looked up the cheat on how to beat "Shadow Link." Heh.

I rented Castlevania II once... and once again, it was too hard for me to figure out on my own. I was only five or so. Though from what I read, apparently people were beating tough games left and right at that age. Meh.

Leo_A

11-03-2010, 12:27 AM

No one really hated Zelda II. It wasn't until the 21st century internet that people decided to express any sort of negativity.

I never liked it, and I don't watch random people doing random skits online that vaguely resemble a video review on YouTube.

Wraith Storm

11-03-2010, 05:02 AM

I have always loved Zelda II and Castlevania II. They are, IMO, the best games in their respective series.

I have always loved side scrolling RPG style games. Battle of Olympus, Faxanadu, Ys III, Wonder boy in Monster World and Popful Mail for example. Zelda II and Castlevania II are no exception.

They have huge imaginative worlds to explore with excellent platforming. They are also challenging and have tons of cool items/equipment/spells to acquire. I had a blast with them when I was younger and still enjoy them a ton to this day.

badinsults

11-03-2010, 05:24 AM

You know, when I initially played it back in the 90s, I didn't like Zelda II. I think it was mainly because the game was pretty hard. I was convinced to play through it again when I got the Zelda Collection on the Gamecube. I passed it, and I have to say once you get through the Death Mountain bullshit, it is actually a lot of fun.

As for Castlevania II, I liked the gameplay, but I never passed it, because I had no clue what to do. Before the Internet, it was just not possible, unless you had Nintendo Power. And I didn't.

shopkins

11-03-2010, 09:00 AM

Both are fantastic games, some of my favorites for the NES. Simon's Quest is easily my favorite Castlevania and I was shocked when I saw the Internet had suddenly dubbed it the "Worst Game Evar."

Simon's Quest is quite possible without a guide. I didn't use one. Although I admit I was stuck for weeks trying to figure out what to do after teleporting at wall. The answer was "walk right," so it was more my fault than the game's. I just expected as internal logic that since the wall was on the left and I had passed through it I couldn't go back right.

Buapo

11-03-2010, 02:42 PM

I passed it, and I have to say once you get through the Death Mountain bullshit, it is actually a lot of fun.

That made me laugh. Death Mountain really was a pain in Zelda II.

skaar

11-03-2010, 02:48 PM

Xtincthed

11-03-2010, 03:16 PM

the problem with castlevania 2 is the crappy day /night mechanism that takes ages to switch
and it had some pretty strange unlogical "puzzles" on how you had to progress

the music however is damn awesome

kupomogli

11-03-2010, 05:40 PM

the problem with castlevania 2 is the crappy day /night mechanism that takes ages to switch

That's the excuse everyone is using now. I mean you can't wait 10 seconds for something that rarely ever occurs? Most games now days take 5-10 seconds every time loading even occurs.

Anyways. Being that I'm much more of a platformer fan, Zelda 2 has always been my favorite in the series. As for Castlevania 2, it used to be my favorite when I was younger due to the exploration aspect, but now it's right behind SCV4 and the original.

With CV2 I can't remember ever using a guide to progress through the game and I still enjoyed it. The thing with CV2, even if you didn't know it when you originally played, most people gave you false information, poor translation or not. The hint books are the only information you need to progress through the game, while everything else is fairly simple to find out or get on your own.

elvis8atari

11-03-2010, 07:10 PM

The Angry Video Game Nerd made entire videos about this subject.

Castlevania 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4we8iFk-fY

Castlevania 2 (revisited)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrLdIiW6bEo

Zelda 2
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/angry-video-screwattack/702460

ScottK

11-03-2010, 07:31 PM

I loved Zelda II and Castlevania II much more than the originals, but then again it was probably because I played them before the originals. I don't think that they were much harder as I beat both of them fairly easily. However they aren't my favorites in the series (A Link To The Past and Rondo of Blood are my masterpieces).

Now as far as SMB 2, I didn't care for that at all. I think of SMB 2 as one of the easiest games ever created. I defeated the game the very first time I played it and only died once.

pseudonym

11-03-2010, 08:02 PM

AVGN's Castlevania 2 video might be one of his more contentious ones around here.

My only problem with Castlevania 2 is the obtuse or plain misleading "clues" that people give you. The day/night mechanic is a little annoying, but at least you can farm hearts from the ghouls/zombies in towns while you are there. I think while you outside of towns, most enemies take twice as many hits to defeat though.

rbudrick

11-05-2010, 02:51 AM

I love both games too. I think much of the dislike for CV2 was the very unfinished nature of it. A lot of in-game tips don't make sense, bosses are missing and unfinished, some rooms that seem like they are supposed to have an item or character in them don't. It needed another month of polish before release, in retrospect. Zelda II suffered from some similar issues, but not nearly as badly, imo. Shit, Zelda II has a character named Error, who is rumored to be related to Ermac from the MK series. I made that rumor up, for those not paying attention.

-Rob

HappehLemons

11-05-2010, 03:20 AM

Castlevania II may of introduced a lot of new things to the series but the concepts were so rough that the game was hurt by them. I hate not knowing what to do in videogames and Castlevania II had parts that just made no sense. Really stupid choices.

Zelda II on the other hand is great. I really love that game.

exit

11-05-2010, 11:30 AM

All this talk about Castlevania II made me request it on Goozex. I'm going to try and beat it without using a guide, so let's see how long that will last before I crack.

Lady Jaye

11-05-2010, 11:45 AM

They are all great games and anyone who says otherwise probably wasn't alive when these games came out. As gamers back then we were starved for new games, ESPECIALLY sequels to classics. We ate these games up with a spoon and enjoyed every morsel.

Umm, I was definitely alive when Zelda II came out (I was 12 at the time) and I've never cared much for it and yes, I did play it when it first came out, as my best friend had a NES and either got the game or rented it back then. To say that I've hated the game would be too strong a word. I don't know why it never hit home for me, but I don't think it's because the gameplay was so drastically different (remember that back then, we didn't expect certain conventions to be used throughout the Zelda games). I think it's a combination of the higher difficulty level compared to the first game, the grinding for leveling up and the side-scrolling temples.

However, the temple music was fantastic. Never understood why it's usually ignored in Zelda music compilations.

kaedesdisciple

11-05-2010, 12:33 PM

As far as Zelda II is concerned, I always liked it. I wasn't very good at it when it came out, but it grew on me as I got older. Now whenever I get a craving for it, I bust out my GBA, pop in Zelda II, and beat it two or three times over the course of a week or so. This is, of course, because I have most of the game committed to memory. Therefore, the amount of unnecessary fights is brought to a minimum as I know exactly where I need to go at all times (don't forget to use the random encounter trick to evade some "mandatory" fights!).

I've beaten CV II once. I didn't hate it, but I don't want to go through it again.

Mario 2 is another game that I've always enjoyed immensely. I remember spending a lot of time as a kid figuring out where all the warp zones were. I also remember trying to remember what I figured out as a kid when the import GBA first came out as that was my first game for it.

theoakwoody

11-05-2010, 02:32 PM

I loved Zelda II but it was too hard for a kid who was 8. I remember my brother could beat Zelda I when he was like 5 but my dad had to help us even get to the final palace and that was after hours of grinding to gain like 10 extra guys.

I like that Nintendo attempted to make Zelda a true RPG but I'm glad they didn't make it turn based. I still say it was one of the best looking games on the system, especially some of the bosses were huge and very detailed.

I never owned CV2 but I remember playing with my friend and we got stuck and couldn't figure out what to do. Years later I beat the Disk System version just to see the differences but I used a FAQ because I suck.

Oldskool

11-05-2010, 04:15 PM

All this talk about Castlevania II made me request it on Goozex. I'm going to try and beat it without using a guide, so let's see how long that will last before I crack.

Well I hope you thoroughly enjoy it! And I think you might. It really is a good game, but I do have a feeling that you'll get stuck haha. There is always YouTube I guess if you need pointers.

Dire 51

11-05-2010, 05:33 PM

Zelda II I liked, but never really got into. It was fun to play around with from time to time, though.

Castlevania II, on the other hand, I absolutely loved. Once I realized you couldn't whip lamps in town to get items, I got into it just fine and beat it not too long afterward, even with the nonsense bits and questionable clues.

exit

11-05-2010, 06:09 PM

Well I hope you thoroughly enjoy it! And I think you might. It really is a good game, but I do have a feeling that you'll get stuck haha. There is always YouTube I guess if you need pointers.

Oh I've played the game before, in fact it was my favorite game as a kid, I just never tried playing it without using a guide. The cart disappeared somewhere down the line, so playing it again will be like reliving a childhood memory.

NE146

11-11-2010, 04:23 PM

OK This thread made me play Zelda 2 again after several years and I am having a blast playing it. Maybe it's the thrill of levelling up my attack to Level 8 before the 2nd dungeon.. but I actually am preferring playing Zelda 2 over Black Ops at the moment. LOL

By the way playing on the ol' Xbox emu with quick save states and the ability to fast forward game speed with a flick of a trigger makes a HUGE difference in enjoyment. And no one can give me any flack as I've played and completed the game "legit" several times in previous decades. :p

bangtango

11-11-2010, 05:02 PM

Castlevania II is still my favorite Castlevania game, though admittedly the only ones I've ever played have been on Nintendo systems (never played a Sony or Sega console installment).

I remember having to read a thick NES Tips book just to beat it. Unless you find all of the right people to talk to or have a strategy guide of some sort, I have no frigging idea how people were supposed to "know" that you are supposed to hold a certain item and kneel at a cliff to make a tornado appear, that you need to hold a certain colored crystal while meeting one of the ferrymen just to access one of the later mansions or that you needed to be holding a certain item in one of the graveyards for yet another secret.

Other than providing very vague instructions as to where you were supposed to go, I thought the game was outstanding.

As for Zelda II, I like to think it successfully weeded out a lot of cocky NES gamers in the late 80's who believed that the original Legend of Zelda was "way too easy" and can be beat in a single afternoon.

genesisguy

11-11-2010, 09:14 PM

I wasn't really into Castlevania when these were new. However I loved both Zeldas and Mario 1 and 2. What a time that was when a sequel to game would be completely different. That aspect seems to be gone in modern games.