Am I getting scammed? (a long post about a colossally stupid buyer)

[ryborg]

Here is something I don't get to say often about ebay buyers: This is a new one.

I'm in the process of moving, so I've been unloading extra games I don't need anymore. Really, do I need 8 copies of Rygar or Monopoly on Genesis? (I was going to post them here first, but with the servers being down and the forums being essentially vacant aside from the regulars, I didn't want to bother. These games have to sell ASAP)

A buyer won two games, then asked if I could give him a great deal on shipping if he buys more. I said fine, $.99 shipping for each additional game. He sent many lowball offers on fixed price listings that I only accepted because I wanted to unload them. He pays immediately, I print up a shipping label, throw it in the pile of my other packages going out with my daily USPS carrier pickup and go to bed shortly after. So far, so good.

I wake up the next day, go to my "real job," then return to my computer ~16 hours after this transaction and I see a million emails from the buyer saying he no longer wants the items. He wants a full refund, even though the items have already shipped. Why? He thinks he overpaid for the games and my shipping fee was excessive.

Buyer's remorse, anyone? I charged $15 shipping and it cost exactly $11 to ship. I reminded him that he set his own price and he got a phenomenal deal on mostly tough to find and complete vintage games. No one held a gun to his head. I also offered a $4 refund for the shipping overage, something I NEVER do. I just wanted this transaction to be over.

Nope, that doesn't work. He goes into a tirade about ebay's Buyer Protection and how he'll get a refund anyway, so I might as well just give him one now. He suggests that I cancel the shipping label, so it doesn't process properly and it gets returned to me. Uh, yeah, I think I'll commit a felony because of a dumb ebay customer.

Two things make this seem VERY fishy. I looked up his bidding history and he's bought around 150 games over the last month or so. He has decent feedback, but some sellers have left him positive feedback (the only kind that can be left, thanks ebay) saying he's very pushy and has communication issues. Can he be doing this to other sellers? Buying games strictly to keep them for a bit, then return them? Or demanding a refund BEFORE he mails them back at which point he simply keeps the games and the money?

Also, the emails sent the day after sound COMPLETELY different than his first emails and messages when he was in the process of purchasing everything. He went from a seemingly teenaged kid who misspells everything and has poor grammar to someone who has good syntax and knows how to spell. The names are different too. The buyer's name is Steve, but he used a Paypal account (and email) with a name of Ann-Marie. Is this a case of a child using a parent's Paypal account against her wishes, and how the parent is trying to get her money back any way possible? Whoever it is, they are very adament about filing every possible ebay/Paypal dispute and leave negative feedback for every item.

We've gone back-and-forth about ten times and he (she?) is simply unwilling to compromise in any way. Am I just screwed here? It's not often that I have no idea how to proceed. Am I just destined for 15 negs just in time for holiday sales and major marks on my account? Do I really have to eat $22 in shipping costs both ways on top of all this? Christ I hate people.

[Cornelius]

You do not have to pay return shipping, that's the buyer's responsibility, and is frankly the only thing that gives sellers a shred of protection. There is a good chance this person won't want to spend the $11 to get them back to you.

I'm afraid you are screwed on the feedback, but I want to say that only 1 will count. Yeah, I just checked, and for sales that happen in the same week with the same buyer eBay only moves your feedback up or down 1 point. I didn't search around to find out about DSRs, but seems like it should be the same policy.

So, things aren't as bad as they seemed at first, at least. The thing I'd now worry about with a nutter like this is what you get shipped back to you. From what I can tell, there is very little stopping them from sending you an empty box or crushing each cartridge before shipping, or any number of other scenarios I can imagine. Not that it is 'proof', but I'd be likely to take a video or lots of pictures when I receive the returned item.

[megasdkirby]

There is a very high chance that you will be negged either way, all thanks to an incompetent buyer.

Where the items sent Priority? If it was, the buyer should be getting them fairly quickly, so even if he does file a claim, he should loose in the mayority of cases. Also, he can't file a case too quickly either, as a few days have to have passed in order to do so. And when he does, there is still a ten day waiting period (last time I checked) and by that time, he/she should have gotten it by then. Just provide tracking info and you will be set.

Like Cornelius said, I doubt the buyer will pay $11 to ship the items back. But if he does ship the items back, try your best to see if a postal employee is present when you open the package. Why? Because if you open it and it's something completely different, there is proof and you can submit a postal fraud report against the buyer. And from what I can tell, the Post Office does not take fraud lightly.

Although obvious, put him on your BBL. If you like, I would report the user ID as well on these and other boards so others can block a SOB PITA like this one.

Wish you luck man. Hope everything turns out ok :)

[portnoyd]

Your hypothesis seems accurate. I'd stand firm and take the neg; I find it unlikely they'll go through the hassle of returning the games to you. If you have 100% positive, try not to get too bummed about 99.9%, it's really not going to do anything against you long or short term.

[megasdkirby]

Oh yeah, don't leave feedback for the bastard. No use trying to give him all positives if the cunt will simply neg you.

[DreadIsReal]

What's the guys ebay name? I'll make sure I don't sell to him.

[ryborg]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. This guy is a giant pain in the dick and it's good to vent. We've emailed back and forth like a dozen times now and holy christ is he out of touch with reality.


You do not have to pay return shipping, that's the buyer's responsibility, and is frankly the only thing that gives sellers a shred of protection.

Not anymore, which is utter shite. Under ebay's Buyer Protection rule changes that went into effect within the last few weeks, sellers now pay return shipping charges on disputes. You'll see it if you sign out of your ebay account then sign back in. It's now the default background on the "sign in" page. This buyer knows this and is willing to exploit it.


Where the items sent Priority? If it was, the buyer should be getting them fairly quickly, so even if he does file a claim, he should loose in the mayority of cases. Also, he can't file a case too quickly either, as a few days have to have passed in order to do so. And when he does, there is still a ten day waiting period (last time I checked) and by that time, he/she should have gotten it by then. Just provide tracking info and you will be set.

Yeah, it was over a five pound package overall, and since I don't use Media Mail, it had to go Priority. It's going from NY to ME so it should be there tomorrow. Can't wait to see what he has to say.


Your hypothesis seems accurate. I'd stand firm and take the neg; I find it unlikely they'll go through the hassle of returning the games to you. If you have 100% positive, try not to get too bummed about 99.9%, it's really not going to do anything against you long or short term.

The account I used for these sales is 99.6% and is a Top-Rated Seller account. The neg(s) would drop me, at most, .1% in my feedback, which is irrelevant to me, but I try to keep this account squeaky clean so I don't lose Top Seller status and huge discounts on fees. People are always giant wackos for holiday season, so I try to minimize damage wherever possible.


Oh yeah, don't leave feedback for the bastard. No use trying to give him all positives if the cunt will simply neg you.

Honestly, I only leave feedback for a very small percentage of buyers who have already left it for me, but that's a debate for another day.


What's the guys ebay name? I'll make sure I don't sell to him.

Sorry, I can't believe I didn't post it in the OP. Normally I try to keep things fairly anonymous, but seriously, fuck this guy. His username is wherethegamesat767.

[b1aCkDeA7h]

eBay really goes out of their way to protect buyers, even if they are clearly in the wrong or only doing their actions out of spite.

[ryborg]

eBay really goes out of their way to protect sellers, even if they are clearly in the wrong or only doing their actions out of spite.

pretty sure you mean "buyers" here, not sellers

[portnoyd]

Wow, eBay knows they have sellers by the balls, don't they?

[Zing]

Under ebay's Buyer Protection rule changes that went into effect within the last few weeks, sellers now pay return shipping charges on disputes.

This must be limited to the USA. Ebay Canada's site clearly states (emphasis mine):
"A full refund is one that covers the cost of the item and original shipping. If you've received an item and want a full refund, you'll usually need to send the item back to the seller. Buyers are responsible for paying return shipping unless the buyer and seller have reached a different agreement."

[Zing]

Yes, you are definitely wrong about the seller paying return shipping. I just read Ebay.com's full terms and conditions of the protection policy. Under the "resolution of cases" heading (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/buyer-protection.html#resolution) it says "Return shipping will be at the buyer's expense."

You may be confusing this with the seller being forced to refund the original shipping amount, which has always been the case.

[b1aCkDeA7h]

pretty sure you mean "buyers" here, not sellers

Right, right. Gotta remember not to post while in the middle of updating a PSP.

[jb143]

Wow, eBay knows they have sellers by the balls, don't they?

And on top of it, you can't contact them anymore. It used to be easy but now it's near impossible. Just try looking for a customer support email or phone number. The links just take you in circles. You might get an online chat but we all know helpful those are.

I just got done going through this with a Buyer Protection claim against me. I ended up waiting them out and eBay defaulted with my side(though the hold on the payment remained for about 2 weeks afterwards)

[ryborg]

Yes, you are definitely wrong about the seller paying return shipping. I just read Ebay.com's full terms and conditions of the protection policy. Under the "resolution of cases" heading (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/buyer-protection.html#resolution) it says "Return shipping will be at the buyer's expense."

You may be confusing this with the seller being forced to refund the original shipping amount, which has always been the case.

Yeah, that seems to be right. I belong to a lot of other forums and receive weekly ebay newsletters from sellers, and several have said what I originally said was the case. We'll just have to see what happens next time a not-as-described dispute comes up.


You might get an online chat but we all know helpful those are.

Holy crap I hate those chats. A buyer who didn't pay (and sent me emails through ebay's messaging services that he was refusing to pay) negged me after I closed the dispute (which I thought was impossible). It took FOREVER to sign into the chat (~30 min wait) and convince the ebay employee that it was a BS neg. It should have been an open-and-shut case that would have taken 30 seconds to fill out the old "feedback abuse" form.

[Kitsune Sniper]

wherethegamesat767

Aaaaaaaaaaand blocked. What an asshole.

[megasdkirby]

Just saw the last feedback he buyer left:

"Thanks. You shouldn't have banned me for a legitimate complaint though. Not cool"

I can't help but LOL at this idiot.

[ryborg]

The package arrived a few days ago and he said he returned it today. HUGE SHOCK. He (Ann Marie) is now saying that one of the games is damaged (a tiny rip in the side of the box) and therefore, he (she? it?) cannot accept the games. Any of them. Of course, I clearly stated the box issue in the item description and it's visible in the photo.

Mr. Ann Marie also restated that I better give him all of his money back ASAP or else Paypal will do the job for him with a not-as-described dispute we both know I can't win. So, that's super.

He also said that he used Media Mail to mail the games back. I'm going to see if my friends at my PO can intercept the package, inspect it, see that it's not a valid form of media (it's just not, let's not have this debate again), and send it back to him, without the tracking number he needs to win a dispute. I know I'm grasping at straws here, but I really hate this guy and would like to see him go down in flames if possible (or at least spend his own $11 instead of $4 or whatever it costs for MM).

[Gapporin]

Never has your signature picture been more apt.

[Cornelius]

I'll keep my fingers crossed that it gets returned to sender because it doesn't qualify for media mail. That'd be sweet justice! Or if they didn't use DC that'd be pretty cool, too, though I'd have a brief moral struggle before deciding 'f-em, they deserve it'. Sounds like that is not likely since they seem to know the ropes.

[ryborg]

Never has your signature picture been more apt.

...it's funny 'cuz it's true


Or if they didn't use DC that'd be pretty cool, too, though I'd have a brief moral struggle before deciding 'f-em, they deserve it'. Sounds like that is not likely since they seem to know the ropes.

Yeah, they used DC and already sent me the number. It's almost like he knows too much, as if he's scammed a ton of people before. I know, that's just hearsay, but this entire transaction has been 100% fishy. Otherwise, I'd have NO TROUBLE saying "whoops, they never arrived." Obviously normally I wouldn't do that, but this guy may be the worst customer I've ever had in 12 years of selling. You've got to read these emails. He's somehow equal parts condescending, ignorant and schizophrenic. I'll post 'em when the transaction ends, for better or worse.

[Ryaan1234]

Everybody deals with a crazy ridiculous eBay buyer now and then, just a month ago my father (who has over 2000 feedback) got his first negative in 10 years of selling on eBay. What happened? He sold something that broke in shipment and the buyer waited 30 DAYS to leave negative feedback. He never contacted my dad letting him know it was broken, just left negative.

So yeah, I've dealt with a few myself and I really feel for you. One of the things hate the most about selling on eBay is the power that the buyers have, as sellers we can't really do anything.

[megasdkirby]

Decided to check his current feedback left....definitely seems like a pain in the ass. He even gives somewhat negative (criticism) feedback on his positives! If he does this, I am pretty sure he messes on DSR's as well.

Also, I noticed everything turned out well for you, ryborg. But the "soft" postive feedback is a bit worrying. Did you block him for later on? He seems to be too much trouble for what he is worth.

[ryborg]

Also, I noticed everything turned out well for you, ryborg. But the "soft" postive feedback is a bit worrying. Did you block him for later on? He seems to be too much trouble for what he is worth.

Yeah, I blocked him immediately after his first email. I decided to just give him the refund, take the $13 hit (plus whatever ebay fees are not refunded), and move on. I really had to restrain myself from not going ape on this guy, but I really don't want to deal with 15 negs or whatever. I'm busy enough with IRL holiday stuff, unpacking from my move, and other ebay drama.

I'm still going to post the emails on my blog when I get a second because this guy is clearly batshit insane.

[Parodius Duh!]

hes an obvious scammer, or trying to be at least, F this guy in the A, Im going to spread his ebay name around to every gaming site I go to.

[ryborg]

hes an obvious scammer, or trying to be at least, F this guy in the A, Im going to spread his ebay name around to every gaming site I go to.

As much as I'd love to "F this guy in the A," there's really nothing I can do aside from spread his name around and leave critical positive feedback that hopefully other sellers will read. Good thing buyers can't receive negs.

[megasdkirby]

hes an obvious scammer, or trying to be at least, F this guy in the A, Im going to spread his ebay name around to every gaming site I go to.

To be honest, I did not get that vibe from him.

What I did feel is that he is a complete, uter idiotic moron. Seems to be very demanding and even oblivious to listing descriptions. A complete whining cry baby.

He is even in the "Hall of Shame" at NintendoAge/SegaAge!

But I am so glad everything turned out well in the end. :)

[ryborg]

He is even in the "Hall of Shame" at NintendoAge/SegaAge!

Yeah? Any stories or anything? Any links would be helpful, since I'm not a member there.