Revolutionary RPG concepts

[raptor94k]

I joined the RPG world relatively late in the game (and I mean "real" RPGs here I had played Zelda and other games with RPG elements) with Final Fantasy 7 in 1999 or 2000 for the PC.

So, unfortunately I wasn't there for the evolution of the RPG. Since then however I have played tons of them, most have been console RPGs as opposed to PC RPGs.

So what are some revolutionary concepts (or good ideas that never took off) you've seen in RPGs, the games you've seen them in and why you liked them?

[Cobra Commander]

I really liked the end of Earthbound. It was cool how they involved the player. They asked for you name when the game started, and by the end one of the characters was reaching out to you by praying for/to you.
I thought that was cool.

[AB Positive]

My favorite 'concept' is that of the randomly-generated hard as balls dungeon. Starting with Rogue (and all rogue-likes, such as the venerable NetHack) the concept was simple: Go into a dungeon, dig deeper and deeper (or in some games, climb higher and higher) gathering treasure and killing monsters to get the big macguffin at the end.

That sounds a lot like every rpg only with one dungeon but the trick is lives - you have one. That's it. Die and you're done. This rule gets bent a bit for later games with roots in roguelikes but you can see this concept work in some degree in games like:

Tower of Druaga
Diablo 1 and 2
Baroque
Azure Dreams (a game I only recently found and am loving so far)


I like it mainly because I find RPGs way too easy nowadays. Rather than implement harder and harder grind (since upon death you can just conjure up a save), this seems a more hardcore way of upping the difficulty while rewarding proper strategy and technique.


It's not for everyone but I love it. :)

[tomaitheous]

It's not for everyone but I love it. :)

You can say that again. I absolutely hate random dungeons. Difficult or not. I've never liked it and glad it didn't catch on to all RPGs.

Not sure what game stated it, but I love the action base parts of Tale series. Especially Vesparia (and Symphonia)

[raptor94k]

I really like the truly open-world concept that Bethesda has been doing a lot of as of late. Anybody know what the first game was that let you have a truly open world?

[Gapporin]

I echo AB Positive's sentiments about the randomly-generated dungeon crawlers a la Rogue or Nethack. Mainly because I don't have the hours and hours and hours of time that it takes to invest in a "traditional" Japanese RPG. With Nethack, I can play and die within the first 15 minutes and then move on to the next game. :P

I'm also finding myself attracted to the Western RPG more than the Japanese RPG as of late. If I had a chance to choose between Wasteland or Final Fantasy VIII, I think I'd choose Wasteland more times than not.

Some commerical dungeon crawlers that I've enjoyed include Shiren The Wanderer for DS (the first US localized game out of a much larger series, if I'm not mistaken) and Gateway to Apshai for the Colecovision/Commodore 64. Gateway is a more "dumbed down" version of the traditional dungeon crawler, but it is in no way any less fun.

Speaking of revolutionary concepts: Let's hear it for the FPS-RPG. I think Borderlands is really the first true innovative video game that I've seen in a long time. It's got the perfect amount of action and RPG mechanics that keeps me hooked. Even if it does take the hours and hours and hours that I need to scrape together to invest in it.

[tom]

One of the first console RPGs, next to the Intellivision D&D games
basic, but excellent
http://roomofdoom.powweb.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=355928&g2_serialNumber=1

[Oldskool]

I really liked the concepts Atlus used in Riviera on the Gameboy Advance. I don't know if there were other games with those types of strategies and weapons/items/armor management. But I thought that it was cool.

The system always kept you on your feet and really made you think twice about using your strongest weapon, instead of just using it indefinitely.

The reason for the this because most items, magic, armor, and weapons are disposable. They only last so long until they break. This creates a lot of strategy in what to use, and what to save later.

Not like most RPG's where you use your strongest weapon on everything, even if it's just a slime.

[Graham Mitchell]

for some reason, people love to hate on Final Fantasy 7, but I think it brought on some truly unique concepts for the genre, especially for jrpgs.

The most obvious change was with the graphic interface. The game took the familiar "graph-paper conducive" block-based gameplay system and tossed it out the window. This was the first 3rd person RPG I had seen that had free moving, scale-proportionate characters who gestured in conversations and interacted with the environment and each other in a realistic, humanistic manner. Prior to this most of the interactions/actions of characters were either described in text or played out with superdeformed, shrunken down representations of real people which confirmed to a grid. In other words, the people in the game looked and acted like people, and the environments looked like real, unique environments, not configurations of pre-drawn tiles.

Also, while Phantasy Star did use guns, robots and lasers as narrative devices, I felt that FF7 was the first rpg id played that made an attempt to portray life in a modern urban environment (save maybe Shadowrum..but I think FF7 put much more effort into using that environment to portray the characters as the products/victims of modern organized society and city life.)

[Atariguy]

It's a simple thing, but I always liked the timed button presses of Mario RPG. It made battles slightly more than just menus, so the battles didn't get as boring as they can in most JRPGs.

[bartre]

I don't know when exactly it came in, the first game I remember it in was Persona 3, BUT.

I really like the life/time-management area of some recent RPGs, ala the social links in P3/4,
the whole ordeal just sucked you in to the world a lot quicker; the first time i played persona 3, i played for 8 1/2 hours...

[Jisho23]

One of the first console RPGs, next to the Intellivision D&D games
basic, but excellent
http://roomofdoom.powweb.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=355928&g2_serialNumber=1

Dragon Stomper is, to this day, a shockingly advanced rpg--no, make that game, for its time. Nearly every design choice in that game has become standard to varying degrees.

There are a couple games that make the revolution, but FF7 is the centerpiece of the evolution of console rpgs (or at least turn based aka J-RPG) so if you've played that you've seen the trope codifier.

As far as a "revolution" though... I mean, its too complicated to just sum up here and it only becomes more complicated the further back you go (early-mid 80s) and you realize just how interconnected PC and console rpgs really are.

[AB Positive]

It's a simple thing, but I always liked the timed button presses of Mario RPG. It made battles slightly more than just menus, so the battles didn't get as boring as they can in most JRPGs.

When done Super Mario RPG style, this is awesome.

When done, say, Beyond the Beyond style? x.x Oi Vey.

[jonebone]

It's a simple thing, but I always liked the timed button presses of Mario RPG. It made battles slightly more than just menus, so the battles didn't get as boring as they can in most JRPGs.

I came here to post this exact concept. Super Mario RPG was the first RPG (that I remember) to use a "timing" concept, where if you press a button at just the right moment, your attack / defend is increased.

Nothing better than jumping on a Goomba's head repeatedly because you keep hitting the "A" button at just the right moment in Mario's jump.

[Daria]

RPG mechanics that I really enjoy:

1. Alchemy: I find that I really enjoy mixing ingredients to create equipment. For this reason I love the Atelier games, as well as really enjoyed Dragon Quest VIII.

2. Customization: Let me create my own main character, I love assigning stat points and customizing my character's physical appearance. And if changing your armour actually alters your sprite/character model even better.

3. Character collecting: Maybe it's just because I grew up on Shining Force, but I feel too few RPGs give you the opportunity to really pick your own traveling companions. This was a common staple of the 8bit gaming era that has fallen to the wayside. What would Suikoden have been without 108 possible party members?

4. Mission Quests: I love journals. Let me stray from the main quest with a checklist of a thousand possible objectives to complete. Maybe it's a for of OCD but striking off a page of completed tasks is really its own reward.

[Damaramu]

2. Customization: Let me create my own main character, I love assigning stat points and customizing my character's physical appearance. And if changing your armour actually alters your sprite/character model even better.

THIS. I love this. I love the features/facial customization found in games like Oblivion and Mass Effect.

Oh, and the updated sprites for sprite based games. I hate when you have uber arms and equipment, but your character looks as if he just stepped out of the village at the beginning of the adventure.

[j_factor]

I really love the battle system used in most of the Saga series, especially Final Fantasy Legend II and Saga Frontier. They have four character classes that work differently. I would be happy to play any RPG that has a battle system resembling just one of these. They don't use experience points. It's a nice change from the pervasive "kill to earn points that eventually make other points go up" system that's in zillions of RPGs, Western and Japanese.

[mobiusclimber]

There's a little-known and little-loved action-RPG on the Genesis called AD&D Warriors of the Eternal Sun that I thought had a great mix of battle engines. In the towns and forests you had what still seems a really innovative party battle system in third person, then in the dungeons you had first person. It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't played it but the battles were fast and furious with a good deal of strategy and unlike some action-RPGs that featured a party, you got to control everyone.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I don't know when exactly it came in, the first game I remember it in was Persona 3, BUT.

I really like the life/time-management area of some recent RPGs, ala the social links in P3/4,
the whole ordeal just sucked you in to the world a lot quicker; the first time i played persona 3, i played for 8 1/2 hours...

... and that feature turned me away from Persona 3 in an hour and a half.

[Parodius Duh!]

I really like how the Japanese only (there is a translated rom patch) Bahamut Lagoon is set up, its like a strategy game but then when you encounter a battle it switches to your typical Final Fantasy side by side battle screen, I believe it was the first strategy RPG to do this (and maybe the only?)

[exit]

Not sure what game it started at exactly, but one thing I loved about Earthbound is that if an enemy is weaker than you, then it's defeated instantly. I've also always preferred being able to see the enemy you're about to fight (as apposed to being thrown in a random battle,while oh let's say, you're climbing a ladder), it helps avoid ridiculously high encounter rates and in some cases makes the game more enjoyable.

[raptor94k]

I really like how the Japanese only (there is a translated rom patch) Bahamut Lagoon is set up, its like a strategy game but then when you encounter a battle it switches to your typical Final Fantasy side by side battle screen, I believe it was the first strategy RPG to do this (and maybe the only?)

The Shining Force games on the Genesis switched when you attacked, but it was only to show the attack animation. I can't remember if Bahamut Lagoon stayed until you defeated the enemy. I guess a lot of strategy games do this though as I seem to recall at least one of the Fire Emblem's doing it (perhaps the one I just played for the DS).

[Kiddo]

Since some strategy RPGs were brought up, I would chime in that I liked Der Langrisser's branching story paths. Not just to explore the story concept of "What if the hero did a complete 180 and became the bad guy? Or if he decided the good guys weren't really good after all and just decided to wipe the floor with everyone?", but also because you saw certain battles, character perspectives, etc. only from exploring the different possible paths - and these perspectives would tend to shed light on how nothing is as black-and-white as the normal "Good guy" path makes it out to be.

Perma-death in the Fire Emblem games also tends to make you much more careful about your decisions.

[Aussie2B]

I too prefer when the enemies are visible. In some RPGs, they can still be tough to avoid, like in Chrono Trigger and Lunar, but at least you know when a battle is coming and you can explore freely after you clear a room.

I also agree with timing attacks/defensive maneuvers. Yeah, it was a lot of fun in Super Mario RPG. I love the timing aspect of Valkyrie Profile battles, and battles in Star Ocean: Blue Sphere are practically centered around having good timing. Heck, Star Ocean: Blue Sphere in general is nothing but innovative concepts, like the complex way in which moves are learned and skills are built, item creation based around mini-games, and so on.

I love real-time battle systems. ATB was a good start, and Tales and Star Ocean took it to the next level.

I like when you have the option to have spells target different amounts of enemies, with damage inflicted divided accordingly.

I also like the "limit break" style system of Lufia 2. It was a lot more interesting than in Final Fantasy VII, since it was based on the properties of your equipment, with loads of different things you can do, each using up a different portion of your bar. It added a new factor to equipping, since you might want to keep a weaker weapon or piece of armor just because it has an awesome ability.