Commodore 64 Question

[Nature Boy]

First of all, I was stunned to see the FAQ section gone from the DP main site. I haven't looked for anything in awhile so it's probably been gone for awhile, but boo!

Anyway.

I picked up a "64C" computer and "1541-II" disk drive this past weekend. It came with a "Fast Loader" cartridge and the "GEOS" OS (and, much to my delight, inside the original boxes with instructions and catalogs and everything).

My questions are simple: do I need a mouse with GEOS? (I saw a FAQ that intimated this but didn't say one way or the other). And what's the history of the 64C and 1541-II? When was it released, what does it have that my regular C64 doesn't? Same questions about the 1541-II (should I use it instead of my 1541, what does it have that the regular 1541 doesn't?)

Thanks in advance.

[digitalpress]

The FAQ section isn't gone, it's just not on the index bar on the left. There are a number of ways to get to it, the most obvious (I thought) was via the "archives" page http://www.digitpress.com/archives.htm

Though you can still access it directly at http://www.digitpress.com/faq.htm

NOTHING ever "goes away" here. It just gets moved, and sometimes takes a little extra time to find, like the Janice and Ariel photo pages 8-)

[Mayhem]

My questions are simple: do I need a mouse with GEOS? (I saw a FAQ that intimated this but didn't say one way or the other). And what's the history of the 64C and 1541-II? When was it released, what does it have that my regular C64 doesn't? Same questions about the 1541-II (should I use it instead of my 1541, what does it have that the regular 1541 doesn't?)

Okay... seems like my territory ;)

1) I have GEOS but it's been a while since I used it. I believe you can use a joystick perfectly well with it. Just make sure it's in the right joystick port :D

2) C64C was released in 1987 as the fourth revision of the machine. There was a tidying up on the motherboard, far less chips used to achieve the same effect. Sleaker case too. Sadly they also fixed the volume bug in the SID (sound) chip which made samples and speech possible. You'll find them to be very quiet on a C64C. Also you can't put an old SID into the newer C64C either to correct this because the motherboard runs off a different voltage and you'd fry the chip :roll:

Apart from that, not a lot of difference, it does exactly what the previous models did. But most people still go for the old style (nicknamed the "bread bin") where possible. On the other hand, get one and use both. Some music runs better off either SID chip, so you'd have the best of both worlds.

3) 1541-II is the second edition of Commodore's own brand disc drive. The main difference between it and the old version was that the power supply is now external and hence easier to replace and fix should it go wrong. It is also "more compatible" with software if you can believe that, because some programs just didn't like the old 1541 at all. They found better compatibility with the clone drives out there such as Excellerator +. Apart from that again, not much difference at all.

[Raedon]

the C64c is a redesign of the breadbox. Early versions even had the same hardware under the plastic.


The commodore 64 is, along with the Apple II and the Atari XL computers, the most famous home computer. During its production from 1982 to 1993 (!) 17 to 22 million (!) of these computer would sell, to put in perspective, that's more than all the Macintoshes in the world.

The C64 was an up_market version of the VIC-20. A wide range of software packages, games and programming languages was available for this machine which was itself available pratically anywhere from a toyshop to a business supplier.

Superficially, the C64 closely ressembled the VIC-20. It had the same casing, an identical keyboard configuration and virtually the same interfaces and sockets. But the apparent similarity belies some fundamental differences. A MOS 6510 processor, 64 KB of RAM which was quite unusually large at the time for a model of this price range. The C64 also had the ability to recognise user-established priorities by which 'sprites' (or movable blocks) could move independantly of displayed text/graphics, enabling the creation of 3D graphics with up to 8 layers.

Music synthesis was performed by a special sound interface chip. Sound envelope could be controlled on all three voices on a full nine octave of each. It was one of the first to offer both a high quality sound chip and graphic resolution with many colors and sprites.

A great range of peripherals was developped for this computer and can use several of the Vic 20 peripherals.

Bob Van Sickle reports:
The C 64 was originally developed as a video game machine engine to be used in video arcades. The idea was to have a basic machine which could be programmed for a different game when the previous one became out-of-favor, and one would not have to trash the machine. Hence the good sound and graphics capabilities. What happened? The market here in the states for game arcades collapsed, and Commodore attempted to recoup their investment. This well documented in an article published by the IEEE "Institute of Electronic and Electrical Engineering" which I read, but cannot recall the year.




NAME C 64
MANUFACTURER Commodore
TYPE Home Computer
ORIGIN U.S.A.
YEAR 1982
END OF PRODUCTION 1993
BUILT IN LANGUAGE Basic
KEYBOARD Full-stroke 66 keys with 4 function keys
CPU 6510
SPEED 0.985 MHz (PAL) / 1.023 MHz (NTSC)
COPROCESSOR VIC II (Video), SID (Sound)
RAM 64 KB
ROM 20 KB
TEXT MODES 40 columns x 25 lines
GRAPHIC MODES several, most used : 320 x 200
COLORS 16 + 16 border colours
SOUND 3 voices / 9 octaves, 4 waveforms (sound output through TV)
SIZE / WEIGHT 40.4 (W) x 21.6 (D) x 7.5 (H) cm
I/O PORTS RGB (composite, chroma/luma and sound in/out), 2 x Joystick plugs, Cardridge slot, Tape interfarce (300 bps), Serial, User Port, TV RF output
BUILT IN MEDIA Cassette unit. Provision for 170 KB 5.25'' floppy disc unit (1541)
POWER SUPPLY External power supply unit
PRICE $595 (USA, 1982) - £229 (U.K. 1984)



the C64c was released in 1986 and is IMHO not as solid a system as the C128. You will need a 1531 Mouse to use GEOS effectively.

More info http://www.sothius.com/hypertxt/welcome.html?c64c.html

The drive is the same as the original 1541 except for one thing (beyond parts) it uses an extrenal power supply that can also be used with the much saught after 1581 3.5"

[Nature Boy]

Okay... seems like my territory ;)

Was there ever any doubt? :)



1) I have GEOS but it's been a while since I used it. I believe you can use a joystick perfectly well with it. Just make sure it's in the right joystick port :D

Gotcha. I'm assuming this is gonna be one of those things I look at once for curiousity sake and then don't bother with? Based on the fact that you, a C64 luminary, barely use it?



2) C64C was released in 1987 as the fourth revision of the machine. There was a tidying up on the motherboard, far less chips used to achieve the same effect. Sleaker case too. Sadly they also fixed the volume bug in the SID (sound) chip which made samples and speech possible. You'll find them to be very quiet on a C64C. Also you can't put an old SID into the newer C64C either to correct this because the motherboard runs off a different voltage and you'd fry the chip :roll:

Apart from that, not a lot of difference, it does exactly what the previous models did. But most people still go for the old style (nicknamed the "bread bin") where possible. On the other hand, get one and use both. Some music runs better off either SID chip, so you'd have the best of both worlds.

heh heh - don't worry about me transfering chips between machines. I'm not nearly that brave yet (even though the machine itself only cost me $1). :)

The sound chip thing sounds interesting. I'll have to give it a try.



3) 1541-II is the second edition of Commodore's own brand disc drive. The main difference between it and the old version was that the power supply is now external and hence easier to replace and fix should it go wrong. It is also "more compatible" with software if you can believe that, because some programs just didn't like the old 1541 at all. They found better compatibility with the clone drives out there such as Excellerator +. Apart from that again, not much difference at all.

Perfect. It's smaller too which means it'll take up less space on my already over crowded desk (I've got 2 Atari 1050s on top of my 1451 - plus my "bread bin" on a rack on top of my 130 XE). I probably would have switched it anyway but I like knowing what to look for ahead of time.

Thanks again, oh mighty C64 wizard :hail:

And thanks Joe for the update. I *was* going to look at the archives but didn't carry though on it for some reason. Didn't matter anyway - there's only a C64 cart listing in there. You should get Mahem to post a FAQ for ya :)