PS1/PS2 titles preferred on PS2 or PS3?

[Loogs]

I have always wondered what other gamers thought of this. Do you prefer to play your PS1 and PS2 games on a PS2 or a BC PS3?

I've got my PS2 connected via component and my 60GB PS3 connected via HDMI. Personally, I prefer the the pixel-for-pixel presentation of PS1 titles on the PS3. PS2 titles, including progressive scan titles, also have a much more obvious crispness about them as well on the PS3.

Yeah, I know it's 'emulation' for PS1 titles and I'm putting more strain than normal on my PS3, but 9/10 times when I do a side-by-side comparison of the same titles, PS3 takes the visual cake. What's your opinion?

[Rickstilwell1]

I would say yes the PS3 has more visual sharpness to it while the older systems are not as sharp. The PS2 also seems slightly sharper than the PS1 even just in using the same composite AV cables. As long as said PS1 title works on the PS3, I prefer it on there for the ease of memory card saves and that graphical sharpness that an HDMI cable provides. If its one of the incompatible titles or I want to use Gameshark or play imports, I have to go back to the classic system.

I only really see the benefit of using the PS3 for PS1 on my bigscreen HDTV though. On the 19" HDTV with component but no HDMI and my CRTs, the PS3 does not seem to have any sharpness boosting over what the PS2 had.

[wingzrow]

I play both my PS2 and PS1 games on my fat PS2. For Ps2 Game I run them off it's hacked internal hardrive which cuts load times by 50% or more, and running PS1 games on my fat ps2 I get clearer picture over a PS1 and also have the option of running them at X2 disc speed to cut down load times, which was removed from the PS3.

If you play ps1 games on a PS3 you get all sorts of compatibility issues like chrono cross freezing at random that Sony will never fix. Same goes with Ps2 games unless you're playing them on a 20 or 60 gig. i only run them on My 60 gig if they have progressive scan like shadow of the colossus or guilty gear.

[Dangerboy]

PS2 games looked like absolute shit on the 60g - and for those who don't understand this, toss in Ico or Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb. I gave up on playing them and just re-bought a PS2 when my house was broken into and the 60g stolen.

I'll play PS1 games on all three though, essentially just what's hooked up at the time.

[heybtbm]

PS2 games looked like absolute shit on the 60g - and for those who don't understand this, toss in Ico or Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb. I gave up on playing them and just re-bought a PS2 when my house was broken into and the 60g stolen.

Exactly what I was going to say.

You would think PS2 games would look better on a 20 or 60 gig PS3 considering the graphical options you can tweak in the menu...not so.

Over the years I've tested my PS2 vs. my 60 gig PS3 on various screens (32" LCD, 52" LCD, and 32" Trinitron CRT...all Sony) and with various hookups (HDMI, component, S-video). The PS2 looks better every time. Simple as that. Most PS2 games on a PS3 end up looking too dark. I've changed every possible setting to no avail. Put the same game in a PS2 and it looks better instantly.

The only advantage to playing PS1 or PS2 games on a PS3 is the memory card management. It's nice to archive everything in the same place and have it so easily accessible. Even so, you can still play games on their respective consoles and keep the PS3's role to a memory card backup storage.

Finally, there's a thread somewhere here about forwards incompatible games (games that won't play in the next-gen hardware). PS1 Final Fantasy V (from FF Anthology) and Wild ARMs not working in a PS2 come to mind.

[LiquidPolicenaut]

I don't know...I kind of have to disagree here in that I think most of my PS2 games look pretty damn good on my PS3. I have my PS3 hooked up via HDMI and every game seems to look great. I have compared games like GTA, MGS 3, RE4, and Persona 3 and 4 and they look the same to me. Some games that support 480p (like God of War 1 & 2) I run them in 480p rather than upscaling in the PS2 since they do wind up looking sharper that way..

As for Playstation games, I still enjoy playing Metal Gear Solid and Xenogears in my slim PS2 just for the PS2's smoothing technique. I know its not perfect and there are little hiccups in it but, overall, it makes them look even nicer. The smoothing technique used in the PS3 is different than the one used in the PS2 so thus why I like the good ol' PS2 for that :)

[Cloud121]

I'm always one to prefer playing my games on their native hardware. However, I play my PSX and PS2 games on my 20GB PS3 for the sheer convenience of it. Mainly due to the virtual memory cards. I have my cards labeled by years (Games released in 1995 go on the 1995 card, 1996 go on 1996, and so on), and some by genre/game (Survival Horror, Sports, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, etc.). I would need at least 25 memory cards (15 PSX, and 10 PS2) for the native hardware.

Being able to play three generations of games on one console (Hell, every generation when you factor in the Atari, Taito, Sega, Midway, etc. compilations) is pretty damn appealing. Though when I found out that the PSX compatibility was emulation and not hardware based, I was a little bummed out. NCAA Football/Madden 98's graphics are all scrambled and garbled, and the original NFL GameDay plays at almost twice the speed (I'm a huge sucker for old sports games).

Not too mention my copy of Tomb Raider does not work on my 20GB, and yet it's playable for download it off PSN? Apparently only certain copies of Tomb Raider with a specific SLUS label will work on PS3s, as my friend's original 1996 purchased copy won't work on his 60GB. I have a Greatest Hits version. Oh well, I can play the Saturn version instead.

I do upscale my games, but don't smooth them, nor stretch them (unless they support widescreen), so they look as close to the originals as possible. Don't upscale at all, and PSX games look like GARBAGE.

Oh and, I think the PS3 has a better filter on it than the PS2. The PS2 filter stands out for me the most with Metal Gear Solid. Blurring everything to such an extent, that I remember textures breaking on walls, whereas the PS3 filter smooths it just slightly, eliminating jaggies, but doesn't hurt the overall picture. Essentially giving it N64 anti-aliasing.

[LiquidPolicenaut]

I do upscale my games, but don't smooth them, nor stretch them (unless they support widescreen), so they look as close to the originals as possible. Don't upscale at all, and PSX games look like GARBAGE.

Oh and, I think the PS3 has a better filter on it than the PS2. The PS2 filter stands out for me the most with Metal Gear Solid. Blurring everything to such an extent, that I remember textures breaking on walls, whereas the PS3 filter smooths it just slightly, eliminating jaggies, but doesn't hurt the overall picture. Essentially giving it N64 anti-aliasing.


I usually upscale all of the PS2 and Playstation games but I also do stretch them to widescreen as I feel they still look good...

I am the opposite end of the spectrum in that I like the PS2 filter better and the smoothing, to me, makes MGS look even better though it does indeed have a few issues. The PS3 filter does look good too but I just prefer the PS2 one for a few PSOne games...

[norkusa]

Over the years I've tested my PS2 vs. my 60 gig PS3 on various screens (32" LCD, 52" LCD, and 32" Trinitron CRT...all Sony) and with various hookups (HDMI, component, S-video). The PS2 looks better every time. Simple as that. Most PS2 games on a PS3 end up looking too dark. I've changed every possible setting to no avail. Put the same game in a PS2 and it looks better instantly.



Wow, I'm really surprised to hear that. Guess I can stop searching for a BC PS3 and just stick to my chipped PStwo + PS3 slim combo. My AVR upscales video to 1080p anyway, so my PStwo now probably looks as good as it will ever get.

[Loogs]

I wonder if there are different builds of the 60GB, I got one of the last ones at the very end of the phase-out. I understand a lot of people did make note of how awful PS2 games looked on their 60GB and there's even some YouTube videos that document it.

It's strange, because like LiquidPolicenaut, every single PS1 or PS2 game I put in my 60GB, they look much sharper than what the PS2 is outputting. I game all my pre-PS1 systems in RGB so I've got an eye for that type of crispness.

Thing is, I sometimes have to do a input selection reset/cycle to get what I want to see. Meaning, for instance, if I load up a PS2 game, it will sometimes appear very blurry and dark. I have to manually select another input source on my TV and then reselect the HDMI source of the PS3, and voilà, the PS2 game now looks 5x better (sharper, crisper, more vibrant than PS2). At the most, I might have to cycle the source up to 4 or 5 times before it's looking like it's supposed to, but generally, I only need to cycle once for most games. I've emailed Sony about this, support seems to have no clue what I'm talking about.

I'm going to assume there is an output stability issue with the PS2 hardware inside. Could just be the signal is hard for TVs to accept properly, thus the input switch trick. Hopefully that helps anyone whose BC PS3s have that blurry and dark presentation of their PS2 games.

[TonyTheTiger]

Didn't Sony issue an early firmware update that fixed those visual problems, though? As far as I can remember, by the time backwards compatibility became moot there weren't any problems with the functionality in 60/20gb PS3s.

[LiquidPolicenaut]

Ok, I just had to recheck certain games and compare. I tried the following:

Resident Evil 4 (both in Progressive and Normal modes)
GTA: San Andreas
GoW II (both in Progressive and Normal Modes)

PS3 was hooked up via HDMI and PS2 slim hooked up via Component.

As I had remembered, all three games look pretty much identical running on either a PS2 or PS3 on my TV. SOMETIMES the smoothing option on the PS3 fixed some aliasing problems but never anything major. If the PS3 is hooked up via Composite or S-Video, however, as far as I remember THEN they looked like shit compared to a PS2 system. I remember having that issue when I first bought my LCD TV and booted up GTA:San Andreas on my PS3 and it was dark as hell via S-Video but became much clearer once my hook-ups changed...

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I've never ever had any complaints about the visual fidelity of PS2 and/or PS1 games on my 60 Gig PS3.

I've never even explored any of the filters/settings to any great degree because I've always been satisfied with the default look and functionality of every game I've played.

There have always been a very vocal set here on DP that swear up and down that PS2 and PS1 games look terrible on PS3, but I'm not one of them.

On both my Panasonic LCD and my Sony Bravia LCD (both with HDMI output) I've not experieinced any color, brightness, resolution or blurring issues.

*shrugs*

[kupomogli]

I've never used component cables for the PS2 but I don't really think it would matter since the PS2 doesn't scale, just like using component cables for the PSP on an HDTV it's only 480p. I did have a 32" tv that I started using prior to getting my HDTV and it looked amazing in comparison to my 19", obviously due to larger size.

Every game I've played on the PS3 so far has had no problems except for Scarface the World is Yours. When playing Scarface on the PS3 it seems that a lot of times you hit the enemy, blood will splatter and everything, but you won't gain any balls and the enemy won't receive any damage. It happens 50% of the time and it didn't have this problem when playing on the PS2.

Other than that, I've had no problems playing any of my other games, even some I've heard that are unable to be completed do to freezing, etc. Yakuza 2 supposedly can't be completed on a bc PS3 but I've played through the entire thing without it freezing.

Then there are games that really get the full benefit of the 1080p upscaling. Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3, Tenkaichi 3, Suikoden 3, Resident Evil 4, Metal Gear Solid 3, and Yakuza 2 are a few that look amazing upscaled to 1080p. All games benefit from it, but there aren't many games I've played that benefit from it as well as these games do. You don't want to play PSX games in 1080p as some, like FF8, look like crap.

There's also Bravia being released that has a PS2 included in the tv itself. I'm guessing it would upscale to 1080p there as well so I wouldn't mind owning that if I didn't own a bc PS3.

[bangtango]

Assuming any system only has so much mileage on it before "parts" start to wear out, I've got no interest in playing PS1 games on a PS2 or PS3. If I am going to put wear and tear on a more expensive system, I'll do it by using games that were actually released for it.

For PS1 playing, every few years I just grab a loose PS1 console at Goodwill for about 3-4 bucks and get at least 1-2 years use out of it.

[Kyle15]

I've played a lot of PS1 games on my PS3 with component cables attached.
They have all looked quite good as long as smoothing is turned on. Parappa The Rapper, however, looks absolutely fantastic!
It's like the game was made for high-end displays.

[Leo_A]

I've never ever had any complaints about the visual fidelity of PS2 and/or PS1 games on my 60 Gig PS3.

My PS3 lacks PS2 compatibility and I've only played a tiny bit of PSOne games on it.

But if it's anything like the Xbox 360's backwards compatibility, a ton of it depends on which game you play. Some look great like Black and really benefit from being upscaled and look beautiful being played on a HDTV.

And then, there are some that look downright awful like Project Gotham Racing 2, with being displayed on a HDTV helping to bring every flaw to light that was nearly hidden on a 480i CRT and making a very pretty game look like a jagged mess.

Ever played Ico on it? That is one PS2 game that people particularly complain about playing on a modern HDTV.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

My PS3 lacks PS2 compatibility and I've only played a tiny bit of PSOne games on it.

But if it's anything like the Xbox 360's backwards compatibility, a ton of it depends on which game you play. Some look great like Black and really benefit from being upscaled and look beautiful being played on a HDTV.

And then, there are some that look downright awful like Project Gotham Racing 2, with being displayed on a HDTV helping to bring every flaw to light that was nearly hidden on a 480i CRT and making a very pretty game look like a jagged mess.

Ever played Ico on it? That is one PS2 game that people particularly complain about playing on a modern HDTV.

Yeah, I'm sure mileage may vary from title to title, but again, generally speaking I've not seen anything visually that made me sit up and say "Holy shit that looks terrible! I need to plug my PS2 in to get the optimal visual experieince."

[norkusa]

I've heard that PS2 games lag horribly over a BC PS3 with HDMI. To the point where it makes playing games like DDR & IIDX impossible. I don't have a BC PS3 but I played a few PS1 DDR games on my slim PS3 and they're pretty much unplayable. They all play fine on my PStwo with component cables though.

[Nebagram]

I still have my 2001 PS2 hooked up to my TV and it still works fine so that gets used for all PS2 games and most PS1 games. I have a PSOne/LCD screen combo I use for some PS1 games, not to mention my heavily modified PS1 I use for import games. I also have an American PSTwo on which I play American PS2 games... of which I currently have, erm, one.

[kupomogli]

I've heard that PS2 games lag horribly over a BC PS3 with HDMI. To the point where it makes playing games like DDR & IIDX impossible. I don't have a BC PS3 but I played a few PS1 DDR games on my slim PS3 and they're pretty much unplayable. They all play fine on my PStwo with component cables though.

It can be next gen games also as it really depends on the tv. Some tvs have a better response rate for inputs than others. I've played fighting games such as Tenkaichi 3 and Bloody Roar 3 on there and have had no problems. Yakuza and Yakuza 2 I've had no issues with either and that has quick time events.

[norkusa]

It can be next gen games also as it really depends on the tv. Some tvs have a better response rate for inputs than others. I've played fighting games such as Tenkaichi 3 and Bloody Roar 3 on there and have had no problems. Yakuza and Yakuza 2 I've had no issues with either and that has quick time events.

My tv only has 25-30ms of lag, which is pretty good for an LCD. It's just whenever I try to play PS1 games with the PS3, the lag feels like it's double that.

A lot of other Bemani players say the same thing too. Don't even bother playing on a PS3. Just stick to PS2 + component.

[heybtbm]

Assuming any system only has so much mileage on it before "parts" start to wear out.

That's why you need to plan ahead...

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8388/ps1i.jpg



As I had remembered, all three games look pretty much identical running on either a PS2 or PS3 on my TV. SOMETIMES the smoothing option on the PS3 fixed some aliasing problems but never anything major. If the PS3 is hooked up via Composite or S-Video, however, as far as I remember THEN they looked like shit compared to a PS2 system. I remember having that issue when I first bought my LCD TV and booted up GTA:San Andreas on my PS3 and it was dark as hell via S-Video but became much clearer once my hook-ups changed...

It's interesting that you bring up GTA: San Andreas. That game was the 2nd biggest offender with being too dark (with HDMI). It was beautiful on the PS2 (as much as a 2004 game can be)...not so on the PS3. Very strange. The darkest was Killzone which ended up being unplayable on the PS3.

[duffmanth]

I have the original 60GB PS3 and I still prefer to play my PS1/PS2 games on my old PS2 that I have hooked up to my old standard def. TV. Those older PS1/PS2 games just don't look good on a HDTV playing through the PS3 cuz they weren't made for HDTV's.

[retroman]

call me weird..but i stick with ps1 on ps1, ps2 on ps2 and ps3 on ps3

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

I have a VERY early PS3 (2006) and prefer playing PS1 and PS2 games on it, because the controller's largely identical to the DualShock 1 and 2 and memory cards are such a freaking hassle...

[Loogs]

call me weird..but i stick with ps1 on ps1, ps2 on ps2 and ps3 on ps3
Touché, retroman. You are a true purist! Adding to that, I personally will admit that factors like the PS1 and PS2 startup jingles or those distinct loading/disc read sounds of an original PS1 (and PS2 possibly) or the feel of the original controllers are all things that simply "take me back" and are a positive addition when playing.

(PS1 launch models (with female RCA outputs) were distinctly louder/noiser than later revs, I could see if some gamers loathed those models for that reason... but still, my point remains)

As far as lag/latency, I would also have to agree that it is determined generally by the specific TV and how it handles specific signals. Some HDTVs have obvious amounts for old(er) school consoles, some are acceptable. But for instance, a solution; you can eliminate all lag on any analog-output system by running through a signal buffer such as the X-RGB3, which can and does drop the latency to 1 or 0 frames (virtually no latency) with optional scanline emulation. Or, as many others will, simply just play on a CRT (no latency) with native scanlines.

As norkusa noted, I admit that some PS1/PS2 games performing on a PS3 on an HDTV may have lag. I personally have never noticed more than maybe 3 frames or less in most games. Does that latency make a game unplayable? Absolutely not in any way. Most of the time, it's not noticeable. Unless you are using a signal buffer i.e. X-RGB3 before connecting a PS2 via any analog connection to an HDTV, generally and technically, you are going to get more/much noticeably more latency for 480i titles than you would with a PS3 connected via HDMI playing 480i PS2 titles (again, personal experience).

Back to retroman's point; I also believe that 'purist' experience could of course be accented by playing, for instance, a PS1 on a CRT. No latency, and the native scanlines are an essential key to visual styles developers intended (natural blurring of pixels and colors). I have been exposed to and spoiled by RGB for my older consoles in recent years. I now prefer rich, crisp, and "exact" pixelation if you will for pretty much anything I play nowadays, I just love soaking in every last detail of a game. But I will always appreciate and give a nod to these older and more common methods I discussed and used to use... and occasionally, I will bust out the CRT + composite/s-video connection for nostalgic reasons ;)

This has been an interesting discussion. Some gamers consider original hardware the priority, some consider latency the priority, some consider image quality a priority, some don't give a crap about any of this, but essentially, we're just a bunch of pixelated peas in a pod playing the same games :p

On another note, I've recently read up on methods of actually playing PS2 titles through the hardware and upscaling methods of my PS3 without actually using/straining the laser, so I will most likely venture down that route next and see what that's all about.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Touché, retroman. You are a true purist! Adding to that, I personally will admit that factors like the PS1 and PS2 startup jingles ...

Doesn't the PS3 have the "startup jingles" and boot screens for both PS1 and PS2 software?

I thought it does.

[norkusa]

call me weird..but i stick with ps1 on ps1, ps2 on ps2 and ps3 on ps3

that's weird

[Kyle15]

Doesn't the PS3 have the "startup jingles" and boot screens for both PS1 and PS2 software?

I thought it does.

It has the PS1 boot screen. PS2 compatible models should have the other one as well.

[Loogs]

Doesn't the PS3 have the "startup jingles" and boot screens for both PS1 and PS2 software?

I thought it does.I'm sorry if I stated that incorrectly, I was referring to the inital "boot up" of the PS1 (white screen + orange symmetrical diamond) and the PS2 (black vortex + colored geometric shapes), both corresponding with a "jingle". Similar to the orchestra tuning jingle of the PS3's boot up.

But yeah, the PS1 and PS2 logo that display and play a 'tone' rather than jingle do play on a PS3 once you insert a disc. Actually, most of the time, the PS3 actually cuts off the beginning of both of those tones, for whatever reason (signals switching over, idk).

Lmao this is some serious nerd speak I got goin' on :roll:

[TonyTheTiger]

Lmao this is some serious nerd speak I got goin' on :roll:

I don't think there's anything weird about it. I attribute it to the same phenomenon of older people preferring vinyls because "that's how it's supposed to sound."

I'm guilty of it myself to some extent. I had both a PS1 and PS2 hooked up until getting a 60gb PS3 last April and only packed them away because space is seriously starting to wear thin. I'd still have them up and running if I could fit everything.

[Toasty]

I've always found it preferable I play PS1/PS2 games on the PS2 itself. Felt more space saving, and getting a PS1 nowadays would only serve as nostalgic unless you haven't gotten a hold of a PS2.

[heybtbm]

I was referring to the inital "boot up" of the PS1 (white screen + orange symmetrical diamond) and the PS2 (black vortex + colored geometric shapes), both corresponding with a "jingle". Similar to the orchestra tuning jingle of the PS3's boot up.

O/T: Gamecube start-up jingle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xecWX51PElI) > all PS jingles.


Lmao this is some serious nerd speak I got goin' on

That's the whole point of the DP forums. The "nerdier" and more technical, the better IMO.

[Cloud121]

Okay so I just did a little comparing of upscaling versus non-upscaling with my PSX games on my 20GB.

I used Metal Gear Solid, and the Resident Evil 2 demo disc that came with Resident Evil Director's Cut.

Call me crazy, but it looks better not upscaled, versus upscaling. A little sharper, whereas upscaling blurs it a just a tiny bit. I never really noticed the slight blur until now.

Though is it really displaying the game in 480p? I hit the "Info" button on my remote, and it's detecting the signal as 480p. Apparently the PS3 won't go lower than 480p via HDMI, whereas with Component, it can do 480i.

My TV is an older Vizio VX32L from 2007, if that matters.


PS2 games looked like absolute shit on the 60g - and for those who don't understand this, toss in Ico or Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb.

Not sure about Emperor's Tomb, but ICO's native resolution is set at 320x240. Gotta upscale it. Same issue applies to King of Fighters 2000/2001.