PS3.5 intead of PS4?

[Howie6925]

(Rumor?) I just read this on lazygamer.com, anyone else see this or know more about it? I think it would be a good idea but I dont know how well it would work. Seems like a big gamble to as no external devices ever did that well attached to another system.

(According to a patent granted to Sony, instead of releasing a PS4 in the next few years they could rather release an accessory that would boost the power of the PS3 allowing it to play next-next-gen games without the need to replace the entire console.


The idea sounds pretty good at first but the problem is if Sony did something like this they would immediately be segmenting the market and you would no longer be able to play any PS3 game on your PS3 and the developers would be very hesitant to utilise it fully.
-lazy gamer)

What you guys think?

[Dangerboy]

That might just be the add-on that uses the ethernet port and USB at the same time. I don't think it would lock out ps3 games...it'd be like the 32x if anything.

[swlovinist]

It is a gamble, but times are alot different. Systems cost ALOT of money. It all depends what benifits there would be and how big of an upgrade it would be. I have been a harsh critic of the PS3, but one thing is for certain for Sony...they have supported their systems very well. I might be interested in seeing how much the upgrade kit would cost and what benifits it would make in the gaming

[Toasty]

I still believe it's still a little too early to be even talking about the PS4. Actually it'd be early trying to develop it even to show. But, I guess talks about it is ok. Give it another year or two and maybe they'll start making it.

[buzz_n64]

Before the Kinect and Move (as well as Wii Fit) made their appearances, I would have instantly said EPIC FAIL to this idea, but now people are getting into add-ons. I believe it will work if the PS3 base price point becomes equivalent to the Wii and 360, then a bundle upgraded system at around $350 or $400 would be reasonable to buyers.

[Kitsune Sniper]

If I can get an add-on to play my VHS tapes and LaserDiscs, I'm all for it!

[substantial_snake]

This seems like a bad idea to me personally.

I think the major problem of the Ps3 is that it does have potential to hang into a year or two into the next console generation and still remain competitive but has failed to attract the massive third party support that they Ps1 and Ps2 enjoyed. This third party support is really important to maximizing a consoles graphic capabilities and lifespan. I don't think the Sony replicated this in this console generation to give it that year or two to justify to consumers the next generation console is worth the wait.

As a gamer and a consumer if sony came out with a Ps3 add on device, I probably wouldn't buy it and instead look at what the competition is selling. I would rather switch platforms then buy a 200 dollar hunk of plastic and metal that will be obsolete within a year and a half only to pay another 400-600 hundred dollars to buy their own new system. Im open to anything but this really just reaks of sega failure all over again.

[gepeto]

This seems like a bad idea to me personally.

I think the major problem of the Ps3 is that it does have potential to hang into a year or two into the next console generation and still remain competitive but has failed to attract the massive third party support that they Ps1 and Ps2 enjoyed. This third party support is really important to maximizing a consoles graphic capabilities and lifespan. I don't think the Sony replicated this in this console generation to give it that year or two to justify to consumers the next generation console is worth the wait.

As a gamer and a consumer if sony came out with a Ps3 add on device, I probably wouldn't buy it and instead look at what the competition is selling. I would rather switch platforms then buy a 200 dollar hunk of plastic and metal that will be obsolete within a year and a half only to pay another 400-600 hundred dollars to buy their own new system. Im open to anything but this really just reaks of sega failure all over again.


Had sony released at at 300 / 400 price point third party support would be there they are still feeling the effects of poor install base do to people holding off due to its price. They should have took the initial loss. They know next time.

[Cloud121]

I heard a rumor a couple years ago. Might've been on Gamasutra or in Game Informer? I can't remember.

Anyway, the rumor was that Sony's looking to pull a Nintendo, and their next console would have an upgraded Cell. 12 cores this time instead of 7. Considering how many years and the amount of resources they spent developing that chip, it only makes financial sense.


But then again, this was just a rumor, and a couple years old at that.

[Graham Mitchell]

Am I the only one who is hopeful that sony WILL go this route? I git my ps3 only 3 years ago and I feel it still has a lot of life left. The console, hdmi cable and one controller cost me $700! That is not chump change, it's a freaking investment. If we must be dragged kicking and screaming into a new console generation, at least make it cheaper than this last one. Allowing current console owners the option of upgrading to the next generation for $200 or less sounds like a good plan to me. lets not forget that console manufacturers lose money on the consoles anyway. They just want you to buy games.

[NayusDante]

It's not just a bad idea, it's technically infeasible. The EXT port died with the GameCube, if anyone has paid attention to console design.

A PS3 add-on that increases its power would be an ugly freak of design. Your only option would be to make something like the 32X where the HDMI passes from the PS3 into the new device, where more rendering is performed. If I'm not mistaken, the Google TV boxes do something like this, where the box takes the cablebox output and adds additional layers of GUI to the outputted picture. This *might* work if they just want to add an upgraded GPU, but they don't have a PCI-E slot or anything like that to plug it into - they have USB and gigabit ethernet. Adding additional processor cores or RAM to this mythical box would make it a nightmare to develop for, and further hamper the device's bandwidth.

If a console maker wants to leave this path open in the future, they need to design consoles more like PCs. A console with at the very least a swappable GPU is not out of realm of possibility for the next generation. Every few years, we hear about the "one-console future," and it might actually work if the console makers switched to a PC-like standard architecture with modular components.

[Howie6925]

Found a little bit more on how it will/would work:
The PlayStation 3 was a massive investment for many gamers, especially for those that bought the console at launch. For Sony, the costs were even higher, with billions spent on development, and more spent on selling the console at a loss. So its no wonder the company wants to extend the PS3′s life-cycle, and thus make profit on the platform. Now, a Sony patent has hinted that they will release external processors to make the console even more powerful – without the need for a PS4.


The benefits of an upgrade to the PS3 are obvious – allowing for a more powerful machine, without having to pay so much for a new console. However, the “PS3 External Processor” has its drawbacks: it wouldn’t give consumers the same experience as a full new console, and would run the risk of both fragmenting and confusing the market.

The patent – from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Tokyo, JP – explains the reasoning behind the processing peripheral:

In recent years, there has been an insatiable desire for faster computer processing data throughputs because cutting-edge computer applications involve real-time, multimedia functionality. Graphics applications are among those that place the highest demands on a processing system because they require such vast numbers of data accesses, data computations, and data manipulations in relatively short periods of time to achieve desirable visual results. These applications require extremely fast processing speeds, such as many thousands of megabits of data per second. While some processing systems employ a single processor to achieve fast processing speeds, others are implemented utilizing multi-processor architectures. In multi-processor systems, a plurality of sub-processors can operate in parallel (or at least in concert) to achieve desired processing results.

Coming to the conclusion that:

Accordingly, there are needs in the art for new methods and apparatus for interconnecting one or more multiprocessor systems with one or more external devices to achieve higher processing capabilities.

The patent is shown in a picture:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/Howie6925/ps3.jpg

The dotted area 500, is the external processor, with the patent explaining that the memory it shares (514) with the internal processor could be DRAM, MRAM or SRAM, among others:

PE 500 is closely associated with a shared (main) memory 514 through a high bandwidth memory connection 516. Although the memory 514 preferably is a dynamic random access memory (DRAM), the memory 514 could be implemented using other means, e.g., as a static random access memory (SRAM), a magnetic random access memory (MRAM), an optical memory, a holographic memory, etc.

The patent expressly states that several external processors may be used:

In accordance with an alternative embodiment, two processor elements may be cascaded by each employing its respective BIC in a coherent symmetric multiprocessor (SMP) interface (or BIF) configuration. The coherent SMP interface (BIF) of each processing element is coupled to one another to set up a coherent interface there between.

The patent was filed this August and only recently published, showing that any plans are most likely in the early stages.

Last year, EA’s Chief Creative Officer, Rich Hilleman, told VentureBeat how he “expected we’ll see a PlayStation 3.5 before we see a PlayStation 4 and an Xbox 560 before we see an Xbox 720,” ”

[Kitsune Sniper]

*deleted*

Yeah, I shouldn't be trying to make sense outta this while I'm still half awake, sorry.

[The 1 2 P]

The Move was designed to keep the PS3 in the game for a longer shelf life than the typical console life cycle and it would make sense that this is yet another device designed for the same purpose. I'm not sure how successful it would be but I could see Sony going this route. They still have alot of money to make up for all the PS3 losses during the first three years.

[Jehusephat]

I don't think anyone's looking at this from a modern perspective. The 32x, Sega CD and other console add-ons of the past were running exclusive content, meaning that it would only be playable if the consumer had purchased the required hardware. In essence, the 32x and Sega CD systems were entirely new consoles that just happened to require a Genesis in order to function. That fragments the market, as has been said, and limits hardware sales to a number equal to or below the sales of the system that hardware is dependent on. It doesn't make good business sense.

Modern consoles are essentially PCs with console interfaces. Because PCs come in an endless variety of configurations, developers design their software to be graphically scalable. Games are able to run on systems which barely meet the minimum specifications with limited graphical effects and resolution, but a user possessing a top-of-the-line system is rewarded with far better graphics. I can only imagine that this PS3 upgrade will work in the same way, allowing users without the add-on to be able to play games with limited graphics, whereas consumers who have purchased the upgrade will be rewarded with superior graphics and improved physics engines. If this is how the add-on is implemented, everyone wins--if amazing graphics are important to you, you can have them, but you can also play the vanilla edition if you only have the basic console. At some point Sony could simply merge the add-on into all new consoles sold, giving them a PS3.5 with no harm done to anyone. Existing games could be patched to take advantage of the new hardware, and all new games would come with scalable graphics to allow for maximum compatibility and the largest possible console install base.

If you think it through, an add-on that worked like the one mentioned above wouldn't be a bad idea at all, and would help to bring console gaming and PC gaming a step closer together. I'd buy one.

[mr_nihilism]

The PS3 tends to get rather hot as it is. Would boosting it's capabilities task it to the point where it melts or what? I'm kidding, sort of.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

i don't think anyone's looking at this from a modern perspective. The 32x, sega cd and other console add-ons of the past were running exclusive content, meaning that it would only be playable if the consumer had purchased the required hardware. In essence, the 32x and sega cd systems were entirely new consoles that just happened to require a genesis in order to function. That fragments the market, as has been said, and limits hardware sales to a number equal to or below the sales of the system that hardware is dependent on. It doesn't make good business sense.

Modern consoles are essentially pcs with console interfaces. Because pcs come in an endless variety of configurations, developers design their software to be graphically scalable. Games are able to run on systems which barely meet the minimum specifications with limited graphical effects and resolution, but a user possessing a top-of-the-line system is rewarded with far better graphics. I can only imagine that this ps3 upgrade will work in the same way, allowing users without the add-on to be able to play games with limited graphics, whereas consumers who have purchased the upgrade will be rewarded with superior graphics and improved physics engines. If this is how the add-on is implemented, everyone wins--if amazing graphics are important to you, you can have them, but you can also play the vanilla edition if you only have the basic console. At some point sony could simply merge the add-on into all new consoles sold, giving them a ps3.5 with no harm done to anyone. Existing games could be patched to take advantage of the new hardware, and all new games would come with scalable graphics to allow for maximum compatibility and the largest possible console install base.

If you think it through, an add-on that worked like the one mentioned above wouldn't be a bad idea at all, and would help to bring console gaming and pc gaming a step closer together. I'd buy one.



sold!

[duffmanth]

I think this is a possibility, but who knows? The PS4 is probably 2-3 years off any way? But hey...any chance to nickel and dime gamers even more, I'm sure there will some new add on for the PS3 eventually!

[eskobar]

The PS3 will be alive at least for 10 years, is not even in the half of its lifespan. With this in mind, an upgrade could be desirable but there is on LITTLE BIG PROBLEM .... the hardware's lifespan !!!.

Many PS3's optical drives and motherboards are dying, specially the first generation of consoles. This is a huge negative factor that has not been talked about. How can SONY ask you to buy an upgrade for a console that can die in a few months ?.

I may be exaggerating but almost all of my friends that bought the BC 60GB PS3s are having problems with the console, the hardware is not nearly as faulty as Xbox360 is, but it's still fragile.



I am in favor for better support on the Developer Kits, I know that SONY instructs NAUGHTY DOG to share their technology with the PS3 community and that's a better way to have better graphics on the PS3, there is still too many room for improvement on code !!!!!!

[eskobar]

Double post, sorry :(

[CRTGAMER]

I doubt an add on would happen to the PS3 or any other current system. Development cost vs software sales profit. The cash cow would be a PS4 with no backwards compatibility to entice gamers to buy new PS4 games.

PS3 initially had PS2 compatibility to win PS2 gamers to the expensive new console. I think the gaming market is so huge now, that backwards compatibility is no longer a concern from Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo stand point.

[Gameguy]

Aren't they still producing PS2s? Why would they already want to replace the PS3 or upgrade it?

[MarioMania]

Becase Sony thinks it's unacceptable for the PS3 to be in 3rd Place

[c0ldb33r]

I will only buy this if it looks like a mushroom while plugged into the top of the system.

[buzz_n64]

I will only buy this if it looks like a mushroom while plugged into the top of the system.

For the PS3 slim, or original? I'm guessing it will be on the side.

[emceelokey]

I think the PS3 still has a good 4-5 years of prime lifetime ahead of it. It's potential is barely being tapped as it is. At first Sony said that they intended for the PS3 to have a 10 year lifespan and I thik they can at least get a good 8 years out of it. At this point, how much better can visuals get. PS3 is already Blu-Ray and 3d compatible and those are the next big steps in gaming so they shouldn't worry about a new system for at least another two years or so.

[Wraith Storm]

Like Jehusephat suggested, I think if there were an upgrade or add-on that were released to boost the performance of the PS3 or even Xbox 360 or Wii, it couldn't be like the 32X or Jag CD.

I think Sega got it right with the Saturn RAM cart. The games that were compatible boasted more fluid animation and ran at a brisker pace, but you could still play the games without it. Nintendo took the idea a step further with the N64 RAM expansion. Yes, a few games did require it (DK, Zelda: MJ, portions of Perfect Dark), but most games that supported it could also be played 100% without it. However if you had the RAM expansion then the games would look much sharper and have a better draw distance.

This is the way to implement a system add-on or upgrade. It has enormous benefits over something like the 32X or Jag CD. First, as several people have already stated, the other method divides the market. But the Saturn Ram cart or N64 Ram expansion did not divide the user base. If you had the add-on you could reap the benefits and if not, well, no big deal. You could still enjoy the game. Another huge benefit is the fact that no additional power supply was needed.

Those are two major factors that people complain about when add-ons are mentioned, but when implemented properly it can provide a solid amount of needed horsepower for a system without asking too much from the consumer.

[Leo_A]

Nintendo took the idea a step further with the N64 RAM expansion. Yes, a few games did require it (DK, Zelda: MJ, portions of Perfect Dark), but most games that supported it could also be played 100% without it. However if you had the RAM expansion then the games would look much sharper and have a better draw distance.

And most of those games that could be played without it barely benefited from it. And sometimes it was detrimental as well, such as reduced frame rates from increased resolutions.

The three that recieved much of a boost from it were the three that were unplayable or barely playable without it.

[j_factor]

Aiming for a 10 year lifespan doesn't preclude them from releasing a new console anytime. I think we'd all agree that the PS2 has enjoyed a 10 year lifespan, and its successor came out after 6 years.

No one should be surprised if the PS4 (or whatever equivalent) comes out in 2012.

[retroman]

i for one like the 5 to 6 year life cycle we have always had.

[NayusDante]

I'm all for a 5-year lifecycle if they can get their console prices down to where it's not painful for the consumer. I'd prefer that over a $800 PS4 five years from now, and having to stick with that machine into the next decade.

[Graham Mitchell]

I'm all for a 5-year lifecycle if they can get their console prices down to where it's not painful for the consumer. I'd prefer that over a $800 PS4 five years from now, and having to stick with that machine into the next decade.

But I think that's just the problem--they CAN'T get the console prices down. Not if you're going to get full functionality out of the machine. $400 doesn't seem all that bad for a PS3, but all the stuff you had to buy with it was so overpriced it got out of control real fast.

[Wraith Storm]

And most of those games that could be played without it barely benefited from it. And sometimes it was detrimental as well, such as reduced frame rates from increased resolutions.

The three that recieved much of a boost from it were the three that were unplayable or barely playable without it.

Your absolutely right. But I believe that something like the Saturn Ram Cart or the N64 Ram Expansion would be the way to go.

Also there was Sega's SVP chip and Nintendo's Super FX chip that increased the systems power without the need for an entire add on system or extra power supply.

Sega was originally going to release the SVP chip in a lock-on cart similar to Sonic & Knuckles. This way if there were additional games that utilized the SVP chip, they did not have to have the chip included with each game (Unlike the FX chip). This way they could boost the performance of the Genesis and keep the cost of the SVP enabled games down. But I guess these plans were scrapped once they realized the only game they had in the works that utilized SVP was Virtua Racing.

I think if they released something like a graphics card on the PC for a console it could work very well. Something that you plug in to the system that has a special graphics processor and some extra RAM. Then you could play the basic version of the game without the add on or an enhanced version with it.

If it was implemented properly I think it could work very well.

[TonyTheTiger]

But I think that's just the problem--they CAN'T get the console prices down. Not if you're going to get full functionality out of the machine. $400 doesn't seem all that bad for a PS3, but all the stuff you had to buy with it was so overpriced it got out of control real fast.

I'm convinced that Sony's next console will be much more conservative, or at least streamlined like the slim. The PS3 eventually hit its stride but it took a number of price drops and the whole ordeal was characterized by the constant pruning of supplemental functionality. Fairly or unfairly, that is going to be a major part of the PS3's legacy.

Sony must have learned by now that it's better to simply not include features than to remove them later on. I doubt they'll be as ambitious next time. The system specs arms race has diminishing returns after a while.

[eskobar]

I'm convinced that Sony's next console will be much more conservative, or at least streamlined like the slim. The PS3 eventually hit its stride but it took a number of price drops and the whole ordeal was characterized by the constant pruning of supplemental functionality. Fairly or unfairly, that is going to be a major part of the PS3's legacy.

Sony must have learned by now that it's better to simply not include features than to remove them later on. I doubt they'll be as ambitious next time. The system specs arms race has diminishing returns after a while.

It probably will be more conservative, the change to FULL HD support was much more bigger than anyone expected and too many developers also took a hit when i came to deliver interactivity like we used to.

The best example was FINAL FANTASY XIII, it was a game that couldn't be created like previous FF games and they killed the interactivity and just madre a linear path ....

The next generations of console will have better technology and probably have smaller consoles and (i wish) solid state drives to save energy and have faster access.

[loop006]

Also there was Sega's SVP chip and Nintendo's Super FX chip that increased the systems power without the need for an entire add on system or extra power supply.

Sega was originally going to release the SVP chip in a lock-on cart similar to Sonic & Knuckles. This way if there were additional games that utilized the SVP chip, they did not have to have the chip included with each game (Unlike the FX chip). This way they could boost the performance of the Genesis and keep the cost of the SVP enabled games down. But I guess these plans were scrapped once they realized the only game they had in the works that utilized SVP was Virtua Racing.

I think if they released something like a graphics card on the PC for a console it could work very well. Something that you plug in to the system that has a special graphics processor and some extra RAM. Then you could play the basic version of the game without the add on or an enhanced version with it.

If it was implemented properly I think it could work very well.


I totally agree, and also the PS3 is in a great position to be upgraded because it supports Blu-rays, hardware 1080p and 7.1 DD.

If you boost the RAM and add some sort of processor to speed up things up, we could get some sweet graphics.. depending on how the hardware is configured of course. Since the games are on Blu-ray, I think most of the time developers can include the standard PS3 version and the enhanced PS3 version on one disc.

It could work out.. if implemented correctly

[kupomogli]

The next generations of console will have better technology and probably have smaller consoles and (i wish) solid state drives to save energy and have faster access.

Digital Foundry tested the PS3 with a SSD on GT5. Load times were cut by around 50%. So games with a mandatory install or menu install should all load much more quickly. XBOX360 can do HDD installs, but there's no solid state 360 drives.

Unfortunately you'll be paying quite a bit for a solid state drive. Atleast it's overpriced due to it being new technology rather than paying $80 for a standard 120GB hard drive. After a year or so I'm sure we'll be able to get a 120GB/200GB SSD for around $100.

[eskobar]

Digital Foundry tested the PS3 with a SSD on GT5. Load times were cut by around 50%. So games with a mandatory install or menu install should all load much more quickly. XBOX360 can do HDD installs, but there's no solid state 360 drives.

Unfortunately you'll be paying quite a bit for a solid state drive. Atleast it's overpriced due to it being new technology rather than paying $80 for a standard 120GB hard drive. After a year or so I'm sure we'll be able to get a 120GB/200GB SSD for around $100.

Impressive results !!!!!!! ...... unfortunately the benefit in actual consoles will be limited to a couple of games but hope for the best in the next generation :D

[NayusDante]

I don't really think that faster loading times constitutes a substantial upgrade. The load times on GT5 don't bother me, so I'd hope that any console upgrade did a bit more than that.