In this thread we remember Sony's arrogance when it came to PSP vs DS in 2005.

[Urzu402]

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/08/26/sonys-phil-harrison-goes-crazy-on-nintendo-ds/

Man those were good times, when the DS wasn't out right destroying the PSP.
I'm not saying the PSP is a bad system at all but just when compared to the DS..... its a flop.

[gepeto]

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/08/26/sonys-phil-harrison-goes-crazy-on-nintendo-ds/

Man those were good times, when the DS wasn't out right destroying the PSP.
I'm not saying the PSP is a bad system at all but just when compared to the DS..... its a flop.

As with the ps3 the initial price point killed it. Had it released at a more competitive price point I believe the landscape would be different.

[megasdkirby]

Sony needed the slap in the face...and the punch in the balls...to get rid of anything or anyone that gave it it's arrogant attittude.

They thought they were "invincible" and look what happened. In a way, this reminds me of another company who went through a similar ordeal: Nintendo, specially with their N64. Can't really explain it though.

But I am glad that Sony learned from this experience...at least I surely hope so.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Wouldn't a "flop" be something that couldn't co-exist/subsist with Nintendo in the global marketplace and not periodically,frequently outsell their hardware for months at a time?

By the game hardware history books, since the era of the GameBoy Color/Pokemon and Nintendo's monopoly on the portable retail market there's not been a portable system that's been able to do that over the course of five years much less one that hasn't been discontinued during a similar amount of time for lack of profit/interest.

Just because thing A doesn't outsell thing B doesn't make it a "flop".

Trolling on the PSP in 2011 is exactly the same as trolling on it in 2005.

[megasdkirby]

PSP = Awesome handheld.

Now the PSPGo...that I would consider a terrible flop :p

This reminds me of how stupid people in GameFaqs would troll and say that the PSP would kill DS, how it was possible to play DS games on the PSP by rotating the PSP screen vertically, each half emulating one of the screens, how the PSP was a "manly" console...and all that bullshit.

Ah, stupid times at GameFaqs. Thank goodness I left there like 4 1/2 years ago.

[RPG_Fanatic]

I'm not saying the PSP is a bad system at all but just when compared to the DS..... its a flop.

How could it be a flop when it is usually the number one selling console in Japan every week and has sold around 60 million worldwide?

[heybtbm]

Wouldn't a "flop" be something that couldn't co-exist/subsist with Nintendo in the global marketplace and not periodically,frequently outsell their hardware for months at a time?

By the game hardware history books, since the era of the GameBoy Color/Pokemon and Nintendo's monopoly on the portable retail market there's not been a portable system that's been able to do that over the course of five years much less one that hasn't been discontinued during a similar amount of time for lack of profit/interest.

Just because thing A doesn't outsell thing B doesn't make it a "flop".

Trolling on the PSP in 2011 is exactly the same as trolling on it in 2005.

Game, Set, Match.

[Urzu402]

I meant its a flop when compared to the DS otherwise its a success just the DS did so much better. Yet when they were first released Sony was so arrogant they didn't even see the DS as competition. They thought they were going to do the seemingly impossible and knock Nintendo out of the handheld market.

[Urzu402]

How could it be a flop when it is usually the number one selling console in Japan every week and has sold around 60 million worldwide?

When compared to over 140 million world wide yea but by itself its not a flop. Also I would think the PSP only out sells the DS because just about everyone and their mother's brother have one.

I happen to own both a PSP and a DS so don't think I'm biased towards Nintendo
Also I have to say it wasn't just on Gamefaqs that the PSP will do better than DS trolls were, they were all over the internet. Even my own brother thought the PSP was going to do better than the DS and liked to rub it in my face.

[megasdkirby]

When compared to over 140 million world wide yea but by itself its not a flop. Also I would think the PSP only out sells the DS because just about everyone and their mother's brother have one.


Tell that to every gamer and parent out there.

"Mom! I want a DS!"

then...

"Mom! I want a DS Lite!"

then...

"Mom! I want a DSi!"

then...

"Mom! I want a DSi XL!"

and soon...

"Mom! I want a 3DS!"

So they will continue to sell. Also, think about how many units are destroyed by kids. I've had many, MANY customers come to the store purchasing a unit because it was either destroyed or lost.

[Baloo]

Sony needed the slap in the face...and the punch in the balls...to get rid of anything or anyone that gave it it's arrogant attittude.

They thought they were "invincible" and look what happened. In a way, this reminds me of another company who went through a similar ordeal: Nintendo, specially with their N64. Can't really explain it though.
.

If anyone thought they were super invincible only to crash, it was SEGA back in the days of the Saturn. Coming off the overtaken market share of like 55% for the Genesis to crash and burn to less than 10% once the Saturn rolled around simply goes to show you can't rest on your laurels in this business. Though SoJ did have a lot to do with the overall fall of SEGA.

Back on topic though, I do remember before both systems came out how a lot of speculation was that the PSP was going to outsell the DS and how much of a better system it was, and now it's being outsold pretty much two-to-one, though it's doing MUCH better than pretty much any handheld console that's gone up against Nintendo.

The only other system I can think of that did even remotely well was the Game Gear, and that only clocked in at about 12 Million Units, a far cry from Game Boy's 100 Million+.

[duffmanth]

The 2 biggest reasons why the PSP sold poorly at its launch were its high price and lack of AAA and original (not PS2 ports) games. While the price has come down steadily over the years and the PSP now has a solid lineup of games, I think it's too little, too late. While the PSP certainly has a lot of great games, they've never come out on a consistent enough basis. It's always been a few big games will trickle out here and there, but then people wait for months in between where nothing but shitty games are released. Also the fact that Sony still hasn't addressed the lack of dual sticks to this day.

[Dangerboy]

The PSP, at least in the US, has been stuck in the shadows because it's a garbage bin of PS2 hand me downs and practically day 1 hacking. The only time I've ever truly sold a PSP (or PSPs) to someone who *wanted* it, and wasn't just buying it out of curiosity was during each new Hack Update.

Hell, we sat on the PSP Gos since launch, and then the hack is proven, and in one day we sell out of them.

I think the bigger problem for Sony (and this includes their systems on all fronts) is that they lost their "voice".

The PSX had Sofia, then Crash Bandicoot.
The PS2 had various mascots, but no true central figure.
The PS3 was just...abysmal. It only took what, 3 or 4 years to at least get the marketing right? (Kevin Butler).

What Sony needs is to stop relying on the gimmicks (PSP is a movie player first! 3D games! Hey we have Wii too!) and get back to the absolute bare bone basics of the original PlayStation 1 days.

They have Kevin Butler for marketing, which is perfect, just don't over abuse him.
Now they just need a true mascot (and mactching games) and company spokesperson who isn't batshit insane like Phil Harrison and *especially* Jack Tretton were / are.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Yes, thing that outsells other thing is clearly a much better thing and makes other thing a thing of lesser quality.

This is always a fact when it comes to video games.

No thing that has not outsold every other thing is always classified as a "flop".

Clearly, this is always true and there are no games or systems considered successful or classics that have not outsold their contemporary competitors and or won their respective console wars.

Also, no game company has ever made a public statement that they will be successful nor should they ever do so. They shal always remain humble before their consumers and in the event that they do fail they should completely remove themselves from the entire industry as an act of penitence for their insolence!

[Steve W]

Do you think the video releases for the PSP might have hurt it? I remember looking at the game shelves in the first year or two of the PSP's launch and they were mostly movies with a few games mixed in, it seems like only a few stores would separate them. I guess that was to make the shelves look fuller in comparison to the DS and it's legacy GBA titles, but to me it just looked like shovelware movies to fluff up their presence in the marketplace.

[G-Boobie]

Yes, thing that outsells other thing is clearly a much better thing and makes other thing a thing of lesser quality.

This is always a fact when it comes to video games.

No thing that has not outsold every other thing is always classified as a "flop".

Clearly, this is always true and there are no games or systems considered successful or classics that have not outsold their contemporary competitors and or won their respective console wars.

Also, no game company has ever made a public statement that they will be successful nor should they ever do so. They shal always remain humble before their consumers and in the event that they do fail they should completely remove themselves from the entire industry as an act of penitence for their insolence!

Frankie wins.

[kupomogli]

Until 2008 it seems that Sony wasn't supporting either the PS3 or PSP much but rather "the features" of the two systems. Maybe being the first time they had two consoles out at a time(not counting the prior generations console,) that Sony couldn't handle it and had to get used to where they were focusing their resources on? It wasn't until 2008 that it felt like Sony was getting their act together and doing something to push the systems ahead. I think if Sony now was Sony back then, then both the PS3 and PSP would be much further ahead than they are now.


Yes, thing that outsells other thing is clearly a much better thing and makes other thing a thing of lesser quality.

I agree. The best selling product can be the worst product, which is why this quote belongs in a Wii thread.

[The 1 2 P]

They thought they were going to do the seemingly impossible and knock Nintendo out of the handheld market.

Actually, I think the correct quote would be "the PSP is going to take gamers out of the handheld ghetto". That was my favorite because at the time Kaz Harai said it Nintendo had already sold over 100 million handheld systems worldwide.

But Sony's attitude for the PSP was the same attitude they had for the PS2 and PS3. They were number one with the PS1 and thought that everyone would bow down and purchase their new systems just because they had the Playstation logo on them. But they learned the hard way that this isn't the case and they are getting alittle better. For instance, I don't remember hearing them say that the Move was going to start outselling the Wii and 360 just because it's a Sony product. They were much more humble with the release of the Move.

[Urzu402]

Actually, I think the correct quote would be "the PSP is going to take gamers out of the handheld ghetto". That was my favorite because at the time Kaz Harai said it Nintendo had already sold over 100 million handheld systems worldwide.

But Sony's attitude for the PSP was the same attitude they had for the PS2 and PS3. They were number one with the PS1 and thought that everyone would bow down and purchase their new systems just because they had the Playstation logo on them. But they learned the hard way that this isn't the case and they are getting alittle better. For instance, I don't remember hearing them say that the Move was going to start outselling the Wii and 360 just because it's a Sony product. They were much more humble with the release of the Move.

I remember someone who works for Sony saying something like "motion controls were for kids" or was that Microsoft? This was before the release of the Move or Kinect and probably around the time the Wii was released.

[Nico87]

Typical Sony. That said, the PSP has destroyed the DS in Japan for nearly a year now.

[Spartacus]

Sony's arrogant at times. So is Nintendo and Microsoft.
The system that get's my attention and money is the one that does the best job of providing software for my tastes. I'm not a kid anymore, so ...

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/23/psp-rated-m-for-mature/

Actually, ESRB lists the PSP as having 69 Mature rated games and 317 Teen rated games. It lists the NDS as having 11 Mature rated games and 151 Teen rated games.

The PSP is definately not a flop at my house.

[megasdkirby]

Typical Sony. That said, the PSP has destroyed the DS in Japan for nearly a year now.

From vgchartz.com (don't know if they can be trusted, though), it says that by January 15th, the DS sold 35,191 while PSP sold 30,782, which would put the DS in the lead at least for that time frame.

But compared to other years, the PSP is indeed selling quite nicely. It's a great handheld so I am glad more and more are purchasing it.

Now to continue playing Ghost of Sparta on it... :)

[maxlords]

Which is odd considering there are barely any games coming out on the N. American market...

[Urzu402]

Im pretty sure vgchartz can't be trusted as the person who finds out the information for them has admited to just making up numbers in the past though.

[Baloo]

Typical Sony. That said, the PSP has destroyed the DS in Japan for nearly a year now.

Source?

And the Saturn also did REALLY well in Japan, that doesn't really say much now does it?

[rkotm]

I liked the PSP. Mod wise, YES. I even loved the modding process on it. It was fun to see what i could get it to do next, like modding a car-sorta like a little workshop to tinker with. Im not getting into ISOs but UMD game wise, it had a decent library. Its launch was good but i waited for a while until it dropped considerably. I loved the Emulation and the way it felt in my hands (the original model, i dont know about the newer ones) and it was perfect for classic gaming anywhere. Hell i want one again. I bought 2 already and sold them for different reasons..When the DS came out i didnt have a big need to purchase one until much later, 1-2 years later, same with the PSP..oddly i do that with handhelds, and yet with the big console brethren, i want one immediately..

[PapaStu]

So the PSP sells well in Japan. It's got a market there. It hasn't hit saturation in Japan like the various incarnations of the DS have. I'd say the PSP is more of a failure outside of Japan. It's time has come and gone for most. The lack of shelf space in then many different kinds of shops Big box retailers like Target/WalMart/BestBuy and even game-centric stores like GameStop.


Anything that moves 60 million units isn't a flop. It's just less successful than something thats moved a combined higher amount of units. Both systems have made their respective owners alot of money.

[The 1 2 P]

Im pretty sure vgchartz can't be trusted as the person who finds out the information for them has admited to just making up numbers in the past though.

Do you have a link?

[Bojay1997]

As several others have pointed out, the measure of success varies by who is doing the analysis. The DS has sold record numbers of units around the world, it has also moved a huge quantity of first party games. For Nintendo which doesn't subsidize hardware, it has been a massive financial success. For a lot of third party developers, however, the DS has not been a great success.

Similarly, the PSP has sold a huge number of units and had some very successful titles including one of the best selling games in Japan last year across all platforms for Capcom with Monster Hunter. Having said that, Sony lost money on the PSP hardware in the early years and unfortunately, PSP first and third party software has slowed to a trickle. Of course, there are some amazing games coming out for people who love JRPGS and Tactical RPGS in the next two months. Calling the PSP a flop is a complete mischaracterization, however. I would agree that it is nowhere near as successful as the DS, but then again, the DS is the most financially and numerically successful platform in history.

[Icarus Moonsight]

A PSP flop, compared to reality? No, that's not accurate. Flop compared to what Sony themselves projected? Ah, there's the rub!

Of course they are going to be behind their product, but they were also making comparative judgments about their competition that were so far off the mark, it's pitiful. That's the arrogance. It exposed their lack of vision, especially when they desperately started to integrate, even half-assed, anything weird Nintendo did after that.

That tells you all you need to know about Sony in that time frame. Mediocrity on high.

[CDiablo]

While I dont think anyone can call PSP a flop, I feel the main reason it did as poorly as it has is due to it 1) Focusing on the "hardcore" gamer 2) offering the same experience as what can be had at home. I own a PSP and havent touched it in 2 or 3 years due to myself not haveing much time to play games on the move and having a nice backlog of games on every other home console/PC. I know I am missing out big time, and I do own games, I just dont find the urge to play them. DS games offer games that are not replicated on home consoles.

On the other hand a reason Piracy is one of the reasons PSP is such a hit. Outside of Japan the tie in for software to hardware is like 2 titles per console sold(I believe I read in a reputable magazine/publication).

[kedawa]

Source?

And the Saturn also did REALLY well in Japan, that doesn't really say much now does it?
It says it got better games there than it did here.

[Urzu402]

Do you have a link?

http://www.examiner.com/xbox-360-in-national/why-vgchartz-isn-t-considered-reliable

EDIT here is another one

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/06/why-we-dont-ref/

[kupomogli]

VGChartz released that Kinect sold less than 500,000 in the first week. When Microsoft releases the true figures they've sold a million. There are only three more days, but how did VGChartz miss by such a huge mark? Maybe because their sales figures are total bullshit until a legitimate website releases the real figures?

If it's a somewhat older released game when the real figures come up then it's safe to say they're correct or not far off. Don't expect their figures to be right until then though.

Source. http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2010/nov10/11-15NineMillionPR.mspx. Here's another source that Microsoft sold eight million Kinect in 60 days. Pretty big number. http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2011/01/06/microsoft-sold-8-million-kinects-in-60-days/

[kedawa]

Maybe they aren't measuring the same thing? There can be a big difference between units shipped and units sold.

[kupomogli]

I don't think so. This is coming from Microsoft.com where they specifically say units sold. Here's a quote specifically stating sales.


“We are appreciative of the response we have seen from consumers that has culminated in sales of more than 1 million units in the first 10 days on the market for Kinect for Xbox 360,”