What was wrong with the Gamecube?

[BetaWolf47]

I still don't understand the hate. IMO, GameCube is Nintendo's Dreamcast. It had amazing games, great hardware, good reliability, etc. Heck, I can't think of anything it had a deficiency in besides 3rd-party support.

3rd-party support is something that will always be a problem on Nintendo home consoles though. Namco said it best: when you put games on a Nintendo system, your biggest competition is Nintendo itself. It's no secret that people buy Nintendo systems to play Super Smash Bros., Super Mario, and Pokemon. 3rd-party companies are well aware of this. Nowadays, it's easier for 3rd-party developers to make shovelware and make modest profits than it is for them to spend a lot of money on development, praying that it'll sell millions.

GameCube did do a few things right that its competition did not. It is one of the most reliable disk-based systems of all time. There's video proof online of people abusing their GameCube past the point of which the PS2 and Xbox shattered, and it still runs. I actually plugged my GameCube and two other things into what turned out to be a faulty surge protector many years ago. My GameCube still runs to this day. Both other things bit the dust. On top of that, no revision of GameCube is known for disk read errors. Compare that to PS2's track record.

It also managed to have fast loading times, something which PlayStation consoles still haven't managed without the assistance of hard drives. On a more technical note, it was also the first gaming console to successfully run on PowerPC architecture, something which has now been adopted by Sony and Microsoft.

[j_factor]

You got to spend $50, or whatever the current rate is, to jump in on online multiplayer with the current Xbox as well. A subscription isn't really an accessory and every Xbox was "Xbox Live Ready" or whatever you'd want to coin it, out of the box.

I'm not talking about the subscriptions. With the original Xbox, you had to buy the Xbox Live Starter Kit before you could use the service. A $50 accessory (although a 1-year subscription was included). Actually I think it was more than $50 initially, but I don't remember for sure. Unlike 360, you couldn't just get your console online, give them your credit card number, and start playing (360 even gives you a free trial). You had to buy the kit, a physical item, at retail.


Xbox Live sure seemed pretty popular to me on the Xbox. Many games had large, active communities and the online component was a major component of reviews for the console's lineup. And the online multiplayer often ran well due to the broadband requirement and substantial network Microsoft put in place to support it, outperforming it's peers with ease with what I ever experienced online with the Dreamcast and PS2.

From my perspective, Xbox Live on the original Xbox is what popularized online multiplayer for home consoles. It stopped being almost a niche that companies like the other three treated it that generation and was instead a major focus for Microsoft.

Xbox Live reached 2 million subscribers in July 2005. As of early last year (don't know the latest numbers), Xbox Live had 23 million subscribers. 2 million is not insignificant, but that's chump change compared to what they have now. Also I bet that's not much more, if it's even more, than the number of Dreamcast owners who went online (although I can't find that number). Xbox Live certainly never seemed to be driving sales of the original Xbox.

There were a number of factors limiting the appeal of Xbox Live on the original Xbox. Being broadband-only was a major hurdle early on (not to mention largely unnecessary in that generation). The cost was certainly an issue for many. The availability of free tunneling programs, which worked with more games than Live did, also put a dent in it. And finally, the early Live games were mostly frivolous. Remember Whacked! and Fuzion Frenzy? Halo 2 was the only really popular online game, and that came two years later. Even PSO was least popular on Xbox, despite the obvious negatives of the Gamecube version.

[Leo_A]

I'm not talking about the subscriptions. With the original Xbox, you had to buy the Xbox Live Starter Kit before you could use the service. A $50 accessory (although a 1-year subscription was included). Actually I think it was more than $50 initially, but I don't remember for sure. Unlike 360, you couldn't just get your console online, give them your credit card number, and start playing (360 even gives you a free trial). You had to buy the kit, a physical item, at retail.

The only thing included in the kit was a headset (Not required), a subscription card with a scratch off code, and oftentimes, a XBL enabled game such as PGR2. In fact I never even got a starter kit until after the 360 was released when places clearanced them off for next to nothing, despite the XBL 12 year subscription codes still being valid even on the 360.

I took my Xbox online without ever buying one. I forget if I used a trial code included with a game to activate my account, but I sure didn't buy a starter kit to activate the account I use to this day.

I don't know about statistics, just was giving my personal experiences. Many games had thriving communities and several lasted right up until the end (PGR2, several Tom Clancy titles, a couple of Star Wars titles, Counterstrike, Wolfenstein, etc). And several made quite a splash for a while, like RalliSport Challenge 2, before people moved on to new games.

It seemed pretty important to people at the time, even if the growth this generation makes it look small in retrospect. I think you can largely thank the original Xbox and things like Halo 2 for those 23 million subscribers today and the widespread acceptable of online connectivity for modern game consoles.

[j_factor]

The only thing included in the kit was a headset (Not required), a subscription card with a scratch off code, and oftentimes, a XBL enabled game such as PGR2. In fact I never even got a starter kit until after the 360 was released when places clearanced them off for next to nothing, despite the XBL 12 year subscription codes still being valid even on the 360.

I took my Xbox online without ever buying one. I forget if I used a trial code included with a game to activate my account, but I sure didn't buy a starter kit to activate the account I use to this day.

Well, I'm not sure how you did that. It must have been later in the Xbox life cycle. Because when Xbox Live first launched, there was no way to buy a subscription other than buying a starter kit. Initially, Microsoft wouldn't even reveal what the cost of a subscription renewal was going to be. All the original reviews of Xbox Live complained that "we have no idea how much it will cost once your free year runs out". Also the Xbox originally had no software to connect to Xbox Live with. And since it didn't have a browser either, you had to buy the starter kit for the Xbox Live software disc; there was no way to simply download the software. Maybe some later games included the software on the disc, but my Xbox to this day does not have Xbox Live settings in the system menu. And don't you remember the PSO controversy? It required Xbox Live even for offline play, and that really pissed people off. If there were some easy way at the time to get Xbox Live without having to buy anything separately, it wouldn't have been a big deal.


It seemed pretty important to people at the time, even if the growth this generation makes it look small in retrospect. I think you can largely thank the original Xbox and things like Halo 2 for those 23 million subscribers today and the widespread acceptable of online connectivity for modern game consoles.

I guess, but that doesn't really contradict my original post that it was "never that popular" at the time. It was 10% as popular. Also I think you can largely thank the Dreamcast and games like Phantasy Star Online for getting online console gaming going in the first place. :) PSO, at its peak, had almost half a million active users. I'm not sure how many Xbox Live games on the original Xbox ever surpassed that, but I'd bet it's not very many. I doubt Xbox Live would have ever gotten off the ground if not for Seganet before it. Microsoft's weirdly chummy relationship with Sega during the Dreamcast days would seem to be further evidence of this.

[WelcomeToTheNextLevel]

I still don't understand the hate. IMO, GameCube is Nintendo's Dreamcast. It had amazing games, great hardware, good reliability, etc. Heck, I can't think of anything it had a deficiency in besides 3rd-party support.

It's a shame that Sega would stop making consoles once they finally "got it right" in America for the first time since the Genesis... the CD and 32X had their good points but were a money pit for most gamers, and the Saturn was bungled by Bernie Stolar...

It's a good thing Nintendo avoided this fate, but I suppose a past of mistakes like Sega had in 1999 can catch up to you at the worst times...

I agree, GC and DC were both great, underappreciated consoles. Did you know the GC and DC were both more powerful than the generation sumo-wrestler in sales, the PS2?

[Leo_A]

I don't remember a Xbox Live starter disc in the starter kits I purchased, but I probably just wasn't looking for it so I've forgotten it (I just remember a disc that gave access to Xbox Live Arcade, was the software included on the same disc)? And it's been well over half a decade since I subscribed to Xbox Live. Perhaps the starter disc came with my console or was already factory installed on systems by that point (Xbox Live was up and running well before I became a Xbox owner in late 2004)?

I just know that I first accessed Xbox Live through either RalliSport Challenge 2 or Project Gotham Racing 2 (Both Xbox Live enabled), which likely had the necessary system software included on the disc to patch in Xbox Live support to the system dashboard if it wasn't already factory installed. Entered the trial code along with a credit card and I was subscribed to Xbox Live and have been there ever since. Never bought a starter kit and got a headset until several years went by.

Either way, I wasn't out to contradict you nor underplay the role that companies like Sega played in getting us to this point (Although I do think it was Microsoft that ultimately popularized online multiplayer on home consoles, I can remember playing things like Daytona USA 2001 online when new and it was usually the same small group of people everyday, not the large communities we saw on Xbox Live). I was just giving my own impressions of that time period as a gamer and Xbox owner that played on Xbox Live. It seemed like it took off and was quite popular by the time the 360 was released. Also, you're forgetting there are far many more Xbox 360's out there than there ever were of Xbox's, and your own point about the growth of broadband since those days. Makes being 10% of last year's Xbox Live installed base seem a bit more impressive for mid 2005, if you ask me.

[substantial_snake]

The lack of dvd capabilities, weak 3rd party support, and child friendly marketing and look all contributed to Nintendo taking third place that console generation. It really was a machine that few outside of the Nintendo Gospel really enjoyed.

I know that personally the only things that appealed to me about the Gamecube were the exclusive Resident Evil titles (One, and Zero) and the Twin Snakes. I don't particularly care for the Nintendo Gold Standards of Mario and Zelda(with a dash of metroid and starfox every once in a while). There wern't any other games on the system that really made me want to throw down the cash back then. Nintendo for some reason felt like it needed to keep (or regain however you see it) its child friendly atmosphere while the market had shifted hard into the young adult male gamer ever since the PS1.

It comparatively failed because they were still relying on that old demographic of children and the Nintendo Faithful, thus alienating other gamers, which in turn led to lower sales, and less third party support. The only reason the wii has been such a huge success is because they opened up a whole new demographic of people who had never really been gamers before. The gamecube was a great system for its time, but it was an example of Nintendo sticking to their guns for better or worse.

[Gamevet]

I don't think there was anything "wrong" with the gamecube, I just think there were a combination of factors, not to mention the PS2's relative strength. I read somewhere that part of the reason why PS2 sold well from the beginning was indeed due to its DVD player (and whoever says that you should just buy a DVD player instead of a PS2-at PS2's release DVD players were just as expensive as the PS2). Interestingly, the release of the PS2 was very close to the DVD release of The Matrix which was one of the first "must have" DVDs and it helped sell the system initially just as much as any game did.

DVD was a big selling point in the beginning (I already had a DVD player when I'd bought my PS2), but the hype of Metal Gear Solid 2 and Gran Turismo 3 were pretty big. You also had a ton of gamers that enjoyed the original Playstation, so it was almost a no-brainer to buy its followup.

I'd bought a Gamecube 2 weeks after its launch, but I still had a bad taste in my mouth from the N64. Sure, a lot of kids enjoyed the 4 player gaming the N64 offered, but to me it was a system catered towards kids and really didn't offer a ton of adult orientated games. Yeah, I enjoyed Rogue Squadron, F-Zero, Ogre Battle 64 and Mario 64, but I was not impressed by games like Banjo Kazooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day or Super Smash Brothers.


I bought a Gamecube at launch. I stubbornly held out hope for THE game that made it worth buying... but when it never came, I gave up and bought an Xbox.

I bought a Gamecube because of Rogue Squadron 2. It was a very impressive game, and I still feel it was one of the best looking games of that generation of consoles. Metroid Prime and RE4 were also must play games, but the system still didn't have as many great titles as the other 2 consoles.



The biggest problem in my eyes was the lack of any decent online games beyond PSO. I played the ever living crap out of PSO, at least until the exploits that corrupted your save came along and some loser wiped out my characters, but I digress. Xbox had online support. PS2 had... some... online support. Gamecube released the broadband adapter and PSO, and then promised more in the future. Still waiting. Even the Wii has horrible online compared to Sony and MS's last-gen offerings. Being a primarily online gamer these days, I have zero interest in Nintendo anything anymore. Nintendo missed the online boat with the Gamecube, and has since been trying to catch up by swimming while everyone else is using a motor.

PSO III: C.A.R.D Revolution, also had online play, but I've never bothered to even open up the game to try it out.

The Gamecube did many things wrong from the start. The system should of had a broadband adaptor either built into the system, or sold for really cheap. The first memory cards were only 65 blocks and they only held a couple of game saves, before you had to shell out the cash for additional cards. The Component cable was only available through Nintendo's online store, and I didn't get mine until the system was already dead at retail.

The Gamecube is, more than likely, the last console I will own from Nintendo. I may buy a Wii, when they're available in bargain bins for $50, but Nintendo doesn't care about the adult gamers that enjoyed the NES and SNES back in the day. The Wii certainly showed many that they don't care about the past gamers.

[JSN]

The Wii certainly showed many that they don't care about the past gamers.

They made many classic throwback games like New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns, and Punch-Out!! for the Wii, I just don't see how you can say this.

[Gamevet]

They made many classic throwback games like New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns, and Punch-Out!! for the Wii, I just don't see how you can say this.

3 years later. Oh yeah, we remember you!

[Dobie]

PSO III: C.A.R.D Revolution, also had online play, but I've never bothered to even open up the game to try it out.

You're right. I totally forgot about that game. Yeah, I got that too, I was disappointed, but I remember some people liked it. I'm not into Yu-Gi-Oh style card games, so I am probably not the target demographic Sonic Team was shooting for. The online was pretty barren from what I remember.

[bangtango]

Main problems I saw for the GameCube with my own eyes were:

1. A failure to have more third-party games that made it onto the PS2 and Xbox but never the Cube. Not necessarily Nintendo's fault, though.

2. Games that were also released on the PS2 and/or Xbox were usually more difficult to find on the Cube and when you did find them, they were more expensive than on other systems.

Otherwise, the system certainly leaves a small footprint compared to an Xbox 1. That's hardly a good qualifier for success, of course, but I always saw it as a positive trait for the Cube.

I don't think the controller is that bad and I think the Cube definitely has the best opening menu screen of the three last-gen systems.

[Belmont008]

They made many classic throwback games like New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns, and Punch-Out!! for the Wii, I just don't see how you can say this.

Because they are cash-ins not throwbacks. Donkey Kong Wii & Punch-Out Wii are played using the stupid wii-mote mechanics. I don't feel like I'm playing Punch-Out!! when I'm playing punchout wii, just feels like some stupid wii boxing game with the punchout name on it. And donkey kong had some potential, but I couldn't get over having to shake the stupid wii-mote in order to roll when on the Super Nintendo I just had to hold the direction and press a button. These weren't necessarily bad games but it is true that nintendo didn't care about their old fan base of gamers when they released the wii. They're a business and they wanted to make money after losing the last two rounds.

[Belmont008]

Oh, and the Gamecube was awesome. It has a fantastic library of games. As much of a Sony fanboy that I am, the cube was my favorite system of that generation. I bought one solely for Metroid Prime and for nearly a month straight that game rocked my world. Smash bros, Twin snakes, Zeldas. There were even odd little titles that proved to be extremely entertaining like Animal Crossing & Beyond good and Evil. It was a fun little console that had plenty of depth without having to be as serious as THE XBOX AND PLAYSTATION 2!!!! Plus Monkey ball rules.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I don't feel like I'm playing Punch-Out!! when I'm playing punchout wii, just feels like some stupid wii boxing game with the punchout name on it.

NES style, feel like a champ. Stop doing it wrong. LOL

[chrisballer]

Mainly at the time it was the lack of DVD support and a kiddy image. Although, I really enjoyed that system. The controller took a minute to get used to, but next to the 360 controller it is the best one I have ever used. I will still tear up some Super Monkey Ball:rocker:

[Doonzmore]

As someone who is going for a complete Gamecube set and is currently at 272 games, I can tell that the Gamecube has an excellent library. One of the beauties of going for a complete set is that you'll encounter excellent games you probably wouldn't give a second thought to otherwise. Two years ago I clocked in almost 60 hours on Baten Kaitos. Glad I wasn't in college yet at the time. Back in December I finally played RE 4 and spent 8 hrs/night for a week to finish it. That NEVER happens. I've been amazed at how many good licensed games there actually are from that generation: Lego Star Wars 1+ 2, Harry Potter and the Sorcerors Stone, Cars, Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer (underrated Beat em up), Chronicles of Narnia and King Kong. Anyone who says there hasn't been good licensed games since the 16-bit days aren't really looking hard enough. This summer I've enjoyed Geist, Frogger Beyond, Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time and right now I'm currently thrilling to Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue.

Yeah, I know most of the titles I mentioned are not exclusives, but you know what? The Gamecube was the system that I played them on. That's where I enjoyed them and that's where my experience lies. I'd recommend those games to anyone regardless of the platform. There are plenty of games to enjoy, you just really need to be more open minded once in a while. The games are dirt cheap now too.

The Dreamcast seems like an odd comparison. Don't get me wrong I've owned that console since launch week and It was distressing to read in Time of Kids (I was in 4th grade at the time) that Sega was discontinuing the machine. That system however, did not have the retail life of the Gamecube and surely not the library size.

People will throw the argument "the gamecube failed because it placed 3rd in console sales" at the faces of supporters. Well...it's a 3 way race, someone has to place last. I don't know if the Gamecube turned a profit but if we're discussing quality, why should sales figures matter? You wouldn’t base a movie’s quality by how much it made at the box office would you? By that logic Transformers 2 would be one of the greatest films of all time.

[Shingetter]

I don't give my cube as much love as I should, there really isn't much wrong with it at all. Nintendo could have supported the GBA/ereader tie ins better, they were cool features. I didn't then and still don't care the slightest about online anything, so that really isn't an issue. Don't mind the different colors, they just were weak compared to what we got with the N64.

I'll tell you what they did right, Gameboy Player and made a rugged little machine. All makers of disc systems should take note.

[bangtango]

As someone who is going for a complete Gamecube set and is currently at 272 games, I can tell that the Gamecube has an excellent library. One of the beauties of going for a complete set is that you'll encounter excellent games you probably wouldn't give a second thought to otherwise. Two years ago I clocked in almost 60 hours on Baten Kaitos. Glad I wasn't in college yet at the time. Back in December I finally played RE 4 and spent 8 hrs/night for a week to finish it. That NEVER happens. I've been amazed at how many good licensed games there actually are from that generation: Lego Star Wars 1+ 2, Harry Potter and the Sorcerors Stone, Cars, Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer (underrated Beat em up), Chronicles of Narnia and King Kong. Anyone who says there hasn't been good licensed games since the 16-bit days aren't really looking hard enough. This summer I've enjoyed Geist, Frogger Beyond, Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time and right now I'm currently thrilling to Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue.

Yeah, I know most of the titles I mentioned are not exclusives, but you know what? The Gamecube was the system that I played them on. That's where I enjoyed them and that's where my experience lies. I'd recommend those games to anyone regardless of the platform. There are plenty of games to enjoy, you just really need to be more open minded once in a while. The games are dirt cheap now too.

People will throw the argument "the gamecube failed because it placed 3rd in console sales" at the faces of supporters. Well...it's a 3 way race, someone has to place last. I don't know if the Gamecube turned a profit but if we're discussing quality, why should sales figures matter? You wouldn’t base a movie’s quality by how much it made at the box office would you? By that logic Transformers 2 would be one of the greatest films of all time.

When you compare the Cube strictly to the PS2 or Xbox, there are some holes here and there in the Cube library. However, there are plenty of threads around this place in which people sing the praises of systems with a much smaller game library than the GameCube.

Your third place comment is a very good point that a lot of people tend to forget. Whether there are ten companies in the mix or only three, there isn't anything "wrong" with third place. Especially if your profit margin is good and you are not producing a far greater amount of product than you are actually selling.

If a company doesn't think "too big" about their position in the marketplace, "3rd place" can be pretty darn comfortable.

Besides, plenty of 1st and 2nd place companies who may have the most "units sold/shipped" and would appear to be experiencing smooth sailing are very capable of running themselves into the ground literally overnight.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I still don't understand the hate. IMO, GameCube is Nintendo's Dreamcast.

Me neither, to be honest. Lot of good stuff still cheap right now. Dreamcast... To a certain extent, I can see that. Had a rampant fanbase right there, day one. Came out rather strong vs the predecessor (in my eyes anywho)... I do think it's more Sega console comparable to the Saturn in the sleeper cult sense, but that has yet to be seen. Maybe the Wii BC could temper that somewhat. We'll have to wait to see how the platform fairs once it finally achieves retro status. I haven't looked much at the import selections for GC (basically Star Soldier and that's it) like I did for Saturn years before the DC.

[NE146]

Punch-Out Wii are played using the stupid wii-mote mechanics. I don't feel like I'm playing Punch-Out!! when I'm playing punchout wii, just feels like some stupid wii boxing game with the punchout name on it.

Like was said above.. that's your own problem for choosing the waggle control scheme. LOL

That game has a control option you know.. change it to good old buttons. :)

[Peonpiate]

Things I didn't like about the Gamecube.

The controller. Gah the controller, maybe i was unfortunate but the first game I played on the GC was Soul Calibur and I quit playing due to the controller. It was awful for a fighting game...But I bought the GC for Paper Mario, and thats still the only game I still own for it. Great game btw.

Besides the controller it was a good system, but it was not in the same league as the PS2. On a hardware scale I believe it was more powerful, but sales alone deemed the GC [and Xbox] to being second rate at best...You cant compete with 150 million PS2's sold vs 30 million GC/Xbox. The AAA devs were going to go to Sony no matter what. And those AAA devs could turn a PS2 game into a gorgeous game despite it being a weaker system...

Considering that, its funny that despite the Wii having so many sales, the AAA devs have their best wares on the PS3 and Xbox 360, go figure that one out.

[duffmanth]

The Gamecube had 2 problems that caused it to fail. First it simply had very few great games aside from a few first party titles. It had no decent 3rd party support cuz everyone jumped shipped to Sony and to a lesser extent Xbox. With the N64 Nintendo pretty much cemented itself as a "kiddie console" company and that's why huge 3rd party franchises like GTA, MGS, and the million shooters out there are almost non existent on Nintendo consoles to this day. Second reason, it looks like a Fisher Price lunch box.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

it needed more cowbell.

[Leo_A]

The Gamecube had 2 problems that caused it to fail. First it simply had very few great games aside from a few first party titles. It had no decent 3rd party support cuz everyone jumped shipped to Sony and to a lesser extent Xbox. With the N64 Nintendo pretty much cemented itself as a "kiddie console" company and that's why huge 3rd party franchises like GTA, MGS, and the million shooters out there are almost non existent on Nintendo consoles to this day. Second reason, it looks like a Fisher Price lunch box.

I think the black GameCube model, especially with the GBP attached, is a pretty attractive system. Who ever notices the handle on the back anyways when it's setup?

And GTAIII and Vice City aside, I don't think that's very accurate. And I really wouldn't consider MGS a multiplatform franchise, even though both the GCN and the Xbox each recieved a single MGS release. From launch in 2001 until the lights started to dim in 2004 or so, the GameCube seemed to get very healthy support from 3rd parties that were multiplatform that weren't focused on a single platform (Like some big Japanese publishers were with the PS2).

Most games that were on both the Playstation 2 and the Xbox back then also made an appearance on the GameCube during that time. It certainly had decent 3rd party support for a good while. And it blew away the far more successful Nintendo 64 and Wii (In terms of systems sold) when it came to 3rd party support.

Someone in 2003 or so would've done well with just the GameCube, beyond the natural loss of the Sony and Microsoft 1st and 2nd party releases.

[NE146]

I don't know why everyone is saying the Gamecube failed.

I've said this before, but if everyone is to be believed.. that the Wii is a repackaged Gamecube.. then the Gamecube has been kicking ass over the 360 & PS3 saleswise for a number of years now. LOL

[theclaw]

Lack of foresight in the controller shape. Action-y 2D games are iffy on its small dpad, nonetheless it worked *very* well for special uses like Wind Waker.

Its small disc capacity might've turned away some devs. Certain types of games don't suit disc swaps too well.

Let's not forget the miserable internet support either. Total bust in number of actual online titles.

[Aussie2B]

I'm still only just getting into GameCube. I think I've played maybe five GameCube games to any significant degree. I do feel it's weaker than the N64, especially since nearly about every follow-up on the system is a downgrade from past titles. Super Mario 64 is better than Super Mario Sunshine. I love the old Metroid games, but I have zero interest in a FPS Metroid. Double Dash isn't as good of a single-player game as Super Mario Kart nor as good of a multiplayer game as Mario Kart 64. F-Zero X is probably the greatest racer ever made, while GX not only isn't remotely as good but flat-out sucks. While I haven't played it much, nearly every Harvest Moon fan regards A Wonderful Life as one of the worst in the series. Etc. etc. That said, I still enjoy some of those games despite them being inferior to past entries. Like Sunshine is still a good game, for example, and I love its warm, tropical atmosphere. Perfect summer game.

I think the GameCube was probably best for its new properties. I think Pikmin is probably the single greatest thing to come out of it. Now that was one immensely refreshing, innovative game. Super Monkey Ball was great and provided my most enjoyed multiplayer experience on the platfrom with Monkey Target. Baten Kaitos was a great RPG with absolutely lovely pre-rendered backgrounds, a fantastic soundtrack, and a unique, addictive gameplay system. I still need to play through its sequel. Then there's goofy stuff like Chibi-Robo and Odama that I really want to put some time into someday.

[j_factor]

I'm still only just getting into GameCube. I think I've played maybe five GameCube games to any significant degree. I do feel it's weaker than the N64, especially since nearly about every follow-up on the system is a downgrade from past titles.

I've noticed a bit of a pattern. N64 fans tend to consider the Gamecube a disappointment, but people who didn't like N64 tend to consider the Gamecube a big improvement (although not a panacea).

Gamecube may have a number of games that are inferior to their N64 counterparts. Mario, Mario Kart, 1080, Star Fox, Zelda, and so on. But, it has a bunch of good games for which there is no N64 counterpart. Super Monkey Ball, Pikmin, Viewtiful Joe, Tales of Symphonia, Chibi-Robo, Skies of Arcadia Legends, Lost Kingdoms, Alien Hominid, Beach Spikers, Baten Kaitos, Killer 7, and so on. N64 fans focus on the former. I prefer to focus on the latter.

[substantial_snake]

I don't know why everyone is saying the Gamecube failed.

I've said this before, but if everyone is to be believed.. that the Wii is a repackaged Gamecube.. then the Gamecube has been kicking ass over the 360 & PS3 saleswise for a number of years now. LOL

It came in last in its generation, did not share many of the huge titles of that generation, and managed to sell fewer units then its also nich and inclusive predecessor. There are plenty of reasons to say that it failed, none of them really matter if you enjoy the console but they are there.

That being said the press and other gamers like to harp on the PSP as a failure all day long despite selling 70 Million-ish units during its lifetime...so really screw what they think. :ass:

[Leo_A]

Gamecube may have a number of games that are inferior to their N64 counterparts. Mario, Mario Kart, 1080, Star Fox, Zelda, and so on.

It's ashame the system was so disappointing for 1st party releases.

They didn't even manage to get Wave Race right. I hate the physics they used in that game. Such a missed opportunity right there. Seems to have killed that short lived series pretty much off.

[Aussie2B]

Ah, Star Fox and Wave Race. Those slipped my mind. Yeah, those are good examples of GameCube follow-ups that were inferior to their predecessors.

[BetaWolf47]

I'm still only just getting into GameCube. I think I've played maybe five GameCube games to any significant degree. I do feel it's weaker than the N64, especially since nearly about every follow-up on the system is a downgrade from past titles. Super Mario 64 is better than Super Mario Sunshine. I love the old Metroid games, but I have zero interest in a FPS Metroid. Double Dash isn't as good of a single-player game as Super Mario Kart nor as good of a multiplayer game as Mario Kart 64. F-Zero X is probably the greatest racer ever made, while GX not only isn't remotely as good but flat-out sucks. While I haven't played it much, nearly every Harvest Moon fan regards A Wonderful Life as one of the worst in the series. Etc. etc. That said, I still enjoy some of those games despite them being inferior to past entries. Like Sunshine is still a good game, for example, and I love its warm, tropical atmosphere. Perfect summer game.

This is an interesting post. Many people consider Metroid Prime to be one of the best games of last generation. I felt the same as you originally, not having the patience for a 3D Metroid, but when I finally decided to put some time into it I was blown away. This was years after GameCube had died. GameRankings lists Metroid Prime as the only last-gen game in their top 10 list.

F-Zero GX is the same story. It's highly regarded as an improvement over F-Zero X due to GameCube being able to handle the gameplay of the F-Zero series really well. I still agree with you though. F-Zero X is still a better game.

If you don't like Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life, track down a copy of Harvest Moon: Magical Melody.

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, I know I'm in the minority on some of those. I wouldn't call Metroid Prime a bad game since I'd be in no position to make that claim, and I don't really have the option to seriously give it a shot even if I put my lack of interest aside since first-person games tend to make me feel sick. I wonder how the game went over in Japan where it's very common for gamers to have the same problem with first-person games that I do. Although, if I'm not mistaken, I think the Metroid series in general does better in the West.

And it doesn't help that I'm a Gunpei Yokoi loyalist that thinks the franchise died with him and none of the games past Super Metroid are "real" Metroid games. I think the Metroid Prime series should be regarded as some weird, Western spin-off rather than a part of the main series.

[Leo_A]

I actually hated F-Zero X. I loved the SuperNes game and went into the N64 game and was quickly disappointed. I'm not sure what I was expecting, but whatever it was, the N64 game just didn't do it for me.

I love the Metroid Prime series and F-Fero GX. But to me, they don't feel like Metroid or F-Zero games, respectively. F-Zero GX has that Sega racing pedigree and feels much more like a Sega arcade racer than an entry in the F-Zero franchise (Which makes sense when you consider the background of the game).

And Metroid Prime felt like it's own series. I didn't really feel like it was Metroid in 3D as I was playing through Metroid Prime. To me, it felt like something different and completely it's own, but still just as good as it's namesake series. Can't quite express what I'm trying to say about this one, but hopefully that makes a bit of sense. And it could hardly be a disappointment for fans of the franchise after getting nothing at all with the previous generation of Nintendo console and handheld hardware.

Those are two of the few areas I wasn't somewhat disappointed in with Nintendo's 1st party GCN library. Even the Zelda franchise, despite several solid releases on the GCN, didn't manage to quite equal what had been done on the N64 and earlier consoles (Although Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Four Swords were all excellent games).

Paper Mario is about the only other thing that didn't disappoint me. The GCN sequel was just about everything a fan of the N64 game could've asked for. Too bad they deviated from that on the Wii, although it looks like they've realized their mistake and have gone back to their roots for the next entry in the series.

[retroguy]

What was wrong with the Gamecube? Absolutely nothing. So it didn't have a dvd player in it. Big deal. By the time the Cube came out, you could get a relatively inexpensive dvd player and Nintendo knew that would be the case so rather than include that and potentially jack up the price of the system, they cut all the extraneous stuff and put out a reasonably affordable game player. In this case, less really is more. And the games themselves are nothing to scoff at either. How long does it take to finish Halo? A couple of days? I played Mario Sunshine for weeks! And I played Wind Waker for a couple of months before I got anywhere near finishing it. And if you're a Sonic fan (which I am), the Gamecube is the best system ever because you could get just about every Sonic game ever made at that point for it, all on one platform. I did get a PS2 eventually, but I don't play it anywhere near as much as my Gamecube. I'll take quality over quantity every time and Nintendo consistently makes the highest quality games. I admit I was disappointed with Twilight Princess, but even so, it's still better than, say, Kingdom Hearts, which I got bored with after the first world. And with all the trash that Sony talked about Nintendo during the PS2 days, the Wii is the number one system in the world and the PS3 is dead last. Who's laughing now?

[Gameguy]

So it didn't have a dvd player in it. Big deal. By the time the Cube came out, you could get a relatively inexpensive dvd player and Nintendo knew that would be the case so rather than include that and potentially jack up the price of the system, they cut all the extraneous stuff and put out a reasonably affordable game player.
The Gamecube came out in 2001, at that time DVD players were at least $200. That's not exactly inexpensive. Back then I knew several people who had the PS2 and regularly used them to watch DVDs, I'm pretty sure that feature was important to a lot of people at the time.

[retroguy]

The Gamecube came out in 2001, at that time DVD players were at least $200. That's not exactly inexpensive. Back then I knew several people who had the PS2 and regularly used them to watch DVDs, I'm pretty sure that feature was important to a lot of people at the time.

What store were you shopping at? I got my first dvd player in 2001 for about $120 (a sanyo, not some cheap no-name brand), which is certainly less than the PS2 cost at that time. Which is why I say that Nintendo didn't need it.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Canada. Notice MSRP on older print, something like - $14.95 US / $24.95 CAN - for example. At least, that'd be my assumption here.

[j_factor]

What store were you shopping at? I got my first dvd player in 2001 for about $120 (a sanyo, not some cheap no-name brand), which is certainly less than the PS2 cost at that time. Which is why I say that Nintendo didn't need it.

Buy a PS2, save $20 over the cost of a Gamecube and DVD player! :p

[Gameguy]

Canada. Notice MSRP on older print, something like - $14.95 US / $24.95 CAN - for example. At least, that'd be my assumption here.
Basically this. We pretty much get screwed on everything. DVD players didn't get to around $150 for another 3-4 years, I know because that's around when we bought one.

Take this Digital to Analog converter on Amazon. It's basically $45 US.
http://www.amazon.com/Zinwell-ZAT-970A-Digital-Converter-Antenna/dp/B001DVZXC0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314169739&sr=8-1

The same thing is $90 Canadian at The Source(formerly Radio Shack), it's the only place that carries it here so that's what we had to pay as it's supposedly the best one currently available to us(there's one better model from another company that's only being sold in the US). Even though our money is worth more now, we're still paying a higher price. At the end of August we're switching over to digital signals so we needed one.


Regardless of that, was it cheaper to buy a Gamecube and a DVD player or just a PS2 by itself? The Gamecube launched at $199.95 which is also supposedly more than your DVD player, for $299 you could get a PS2 with a DVD and CD player built in.

[Rob2600]

Basically this. We pretty much get screwed on everything. DVD players didn't get to around $150 for another 3-4 years

Damn. Here in the U.S., DVD players were as low as $35 in 2002.

[BetaWolf47]

I've got a minority opinion too, in that I like Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker better than Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess. Ocarina of Time is a close second though. Wind Waker was a huge departure from Hyrule and what we're used to (main character starting out in a quaint forest village, traveling through the world on horseback, etc.) I'm not sure why, but I think the fast-paced dungeons and wide exploration really did it for me. I didn't even really mind the Triforce hunting.

Twilight Princess was too dark to be atmospheric for a Zelda game. Did not like the new voice actor for Link either.

[Terminusvitae]

I preferred the grim bleakness of Twilight Princess, myself. I'd like to see another entry in the series in the same vein, but I doubt that will ever happen.

[Mr Smith]

I never considered the Gamecube an appealing console. Unlike the N64 and Playstation which were very different beasts, the Gamecube seemed to be a weaker version of the PS2.

[Sunnyvale]

The Gamecube was certainly the less advanced of the 6th gene consoles, but we can say the same about the Wii and 7th gen, can't we? Fact is,Nintendo can afford to be lazy on their console development. They don't need a fancy DVD player, or internet capability, or half the RAM. They've got Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and Metroid.

[Deadman]

For me the Gamecube just simply didn't "look" like a kick-ass game machine, so I didn't get one until around 2005 or 2006. The Xbox was the new bad-ass kid on the block with great graphics, DVD player, and the Microsoft name on it. The PS2 was the successor to one of the highest selling systems of all time - the one that killed the superior Dreamcast (yes, that's my opinion). As was stated earlier, the Gamecube looked like a kids toy (purple, handle, tiny discs instead of cd's) and the game selection was as usual, geared toward younger pleyers with the Mario/pokemon/Zelda franchises.

I own 3 Gamecubes and my two sons each have one of their own in their rooms. I think it's a fun machine to collect for and it's first party, GC exclusive games are fairly fun, but any game that's also on the Xbox or PS2 will never go in my Gamecube as the controller and graphics are just plain inferior.

But as has been said, Nintendo marches to its' own drum and they took it, rebranded it as the Wii and made a fortune in motion control. The same thing will happen to the 3DS - when Mario and Pokemon Gray come out in 3D, it's all over. That thing will be in every kids pocket and superior gaming machines will be left sitting untouched. It's crazy, but Nintendo actually seems to know what it's doing! :)

[Aussie2B]

Gamecube weaker than PS2? What is this rewriting of history? Maybe in certain aspects (I don't know the exact specs of each) and the GameCube definitely has a smaller storage medium, but it was widely accepted during that generation that GameCube games generally had more impressive graphics than PS2. The order went: Xbox > GameCube > PS2

[Gameguy]

Damn. Here in the U.S., DVD players were as low as $35 in 2002.
I distinctly remember that I couldn't find a DVD player anywhere near that cheap, even the crappy ones were around $80-$100(I think) but those were known to have problems just months after buying them so they weren't worth getting. I know around 2002/2003 I was willing to trade a used laptop for any DVD player but couldn't find anyone willing to trade. I know the laptop was bought used around 2000 for $500, it was still worth something back then(though now it's pretty much worthless). At that time if I could have found any DVD player for under $40 I would have bought one.

We ended up picking out a Sony one in I think 2003/2004 for over $150(I think $180 but can't remember for sure), this was for my uncle. I didn't get one until around 2005 when I asked for a DVD/VHS combo one for my birthday, after Batman: The Animated Series came out I really wanted a player and the series. I'm still using that player though VHS tapes are now hard to insert for some reason.

[Rob2600]

Gamecube weaker than PS2? What is this rewriting of history? ... The order went: Xbox > GameCube > PS2

Exactly. In the hands of the absolute best developers, the Xbox could produce roughly 36 million polygons/second in-game, the GameCube could produce roughly 25 million polygons/second in-game, and the PS2 could produce roughly 18 million polygons/second in-game.

Plus, the GameCube has superior texturing than the PS2, faster RAM, and a more efficient architecture overall.

[Mr Smith]

Exactly. In the hands of the absolute best developers, the Xbox could produce roughly 36 million polygons/second in-game, the GameCube could produce roughly 25 million polygons/second in-game, and the PS2 could produce roughly 18 million polygons/second in-game.

Yes, because anybody bothering to play a game stops to count the polygons. The PS2 had much better games than the GameCube (irrespective of seven million polygons) the controllers for the GameCube also were really, really tosh.

[RP2A03]

If by "tosh" you mean that they were some the most comfortable controllers ever made and had a good general purpose design, then I agree with you. As for your opinion of the PS2 having better games, I won't hold your bad taste against you.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

^^^waaaaahhhhhhhh???


is that even debatable at this point?



ps2 had/has the greatest gaming library of all time



i liked my gamecube, but honestly their were maybe 8 system exclusives worth owning in my eyes, and like 3 of them are resident evil

[Aussie2B]

Well, if you want to use "weaker" as a general term to describe your feelings on the quality of the games and so on, fine, but there's no arguing that PS2 is literally the weaker system. In fact, anybody that whines about the Wii's lack of power probably has the PS2 more to blame than anything else since it showed that it was possible to be dead last in hardware capabilities and still come out on top. The fact that the N64 was a more capable 3D machine than the PlayStation and the GameCube with the PS2 didn't help them any, so they probably questioned why they were even spending the money.

[Mayhem]

ps2 had/has the greatest gaming library of all time
SNES/SFC has the greatest gaming library of all time imo ;)

And the only thing wrong with the Cube pad was the placement of the buttons made it awkward for some games. Most ergonomic, comfortable pad I've ever used (the 360 pad is just behind) with one of the best analog sticks. By comparison the dual shock is painfully lacking in shape and form, and the analog sticks on it are, to use Mr Smith's terminology, tosh.

[spoonman]

It's simple.. Nintendo made 1st party games so polished that 3rd party companies just couldn't compete with them. So most didn't even try.

Only a few knew how to take advantage of the system's capabilities, such as Capcom with Resident Evil 4, and it shows.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Metroid Prime and Rogue Leader gives multiple eyegasms...

PS2 was the most recent proof of concept for the flashy trash machine. Sure it's hardware sucks, but everyone puts a game on it and suddenly nobody cares. PS1 was a middle-road champ, like the SNES. So trash doesn't equal treasure, just when all the comp is going balls to the wall tech.

[Gamevet]

The Gamecube had a small collection of great games, but you'd have to be downright blind, or played very little PS2 titles to think it doesn't have one of the greatest library of games. The Gamecube doesn't come close, even though it had great games.

[BetaWolf47]

Yes, because anybody bothering to play a game stops to count the polygons.

I guess you don't understand the fact that a higher polygon count amounts to smoother shapes then? Not something you have to stop and count to even notice.

I'll agree that the PS2 had more good games than GameCube. There's no questioning it. But when it comes to GameCube's best of the best to PS2's best of the best, there's no comparison in my eyes.

[bangtango]

I guess you don't understand the fact that a higher polygon count amounts to smoother shapes then? Not something you have to stop and count to even notice.

Just my two cents.....

Some of the games that best display this difference are anything EA Sports or Sega Sports/2K released on both the Cube and PS2. Madden is a good example, since I've often ended up with the same edition of Madden on all three last-gen platforms because of the very low used prices.

And you are right, it is noticeable without having to count.

[Sunnyvale]

The Gamecube had a small collection of great games, but you'd have to be downright blind, or played very little PS2 titles to think it doesn't have one of the greatest library of games. The Gamecube doesn't come close, even though it had great games.

I've played quite a few games, PS2, Cube, and others. IMHO, the PS2 library is a lesser version of the XBOx's. I can't think of one PS2-only game that would make me plug my system in (PS3 is YLOD). Matter of fact, 2 weeks ago I found the game I've wanted most (Mega Man X Command Mission) on the PS2 for a while. Haven't even tested it. My least favorite console of the 6th gen.

[j_factor]

PS2 is my least favorite console of that generation too. The system is only good for exclusives (and the occasional PSP port), because multiplatform games are always better on the other system(s), with perhaps three exceptions. RPGs are one of its strengths, but the overall quality of RPGs went down compared to the previous generation IMO, although there are still some that I liked a lot. When people make lists of "great" PS2 games, they always include games that were better on Xbox or whatever. I suppose PS2 is the best, if it's the only system you have.

[NBaco]

I personally thought the Gamecube was a good console and could only shake my head at the people who went around calling it the "Gaycube" or the "kiddiecube". If you were willing to dig a little deeper than Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4, you'd find it had a pretty decent selection of games. Some of my personal picks include...

-Harvest Moon: A wonderful life. Yes I sometimes play Harvest Moon games. Laugh it up. Also may not technically count on the grounds it got a PS2 release eventually, but eh I'm counting it anyway.

-Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, a bit hard to find but worth it if you're into Fire Emblem titles.

-Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door

-Pikmin 2

-Tales of Symphonia

There's also the common favorites like Super Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime, and Resident Evil 4 though with the exception of RE4 I wasn't too fond of either of those games.

In regards to the controller, I thought it was a pretty good controller. I find it funny that people bash the tiny dpad (I hate it too in all fairness) yet seem perfectly fine with the 360's worthless stiff-ass dpad. The C-Stick also was a little awkward, but overall a nice controller. I feel the dpad woes though because I have the zelda anniversary disc and I can tell you right now the 2 NES Zelda games are barely functional because of it. Unless you use the analog stick. I already have the 2 NES Zelda games though so no loss for me.

I'm not getting in on the PS2 debate. I like the PS2 and the Gamecube, I don't see the need in comparing them. They're both proud parts of my collection.

[Sunnyvale]

PS2 is my least favorite console of that generation too. The system is only good for exclusives (and the occasional PSP port), because multiplatform games are always better on the other system(s), with perhaps three exceptions. RPGs are one of its strengths, but the overall quality of RPGs went down compared to the previous generation IMO, although there are still some that I liked a lot. When people make lists of "great" PS2 games, they always include games that were better on Xbox or whatever. I suppose PS2 is the best, if it's the only system you have.

I haven't been into RPG's for a long time now, so that strength was lost on me.

[Mr Smith]

I guess you don't understand the fact that a higher polygon count amounts to smoother shapes then? Not something you have to stop and count to even notice.

My comment about counting polygons was, of course, sarcastic - things have moved on from the days of pausing a game of Virtua Racing and being able to count all three of them!

[Belmont008]

Like was said above.. that's your own problem for choosing the waggle control scheme. LOL

That game has a control option you know.. change it to good old buttons. :)

Yeah I figured that out, and it is a lot better now that I'm using something like a controller. I'm still having issues with the fact that for prolonged periods of time holding that thing sideways gets really uncomfortable.

[Nature Boy]

It's simple.. Nintendo made 1st party games so polished that 3rd party companies just couldn't compete with them. So most didn't even try.

That's been the case ever since 3rd parties abandoned the N64. Yeah there's some decent 3rd party stuff on N64, GC, and Wii, but the Nintendo stuff is generally regarded as the better stuff and the reason you buy the machines - not so you can play RE4.

[Aussie2B]

the Nintendo stuff is generally regarded as the better stuff and the reason you buy the machines - not so you can play RE4.

I don't know about that. Now that RE4 is multiplatform, sure, you don't need to buy a GameCube for it, but the game was IMMENSELY popular. The majority of gamers I know would probably pick it as their favorite GameCube game. I don't know if it moved a lot of machines since it didn't come very early on in the GameCube's lifespan, but practically everyone that had a GameCube bought it and enjoyed it every bit, if not more, than the Nintendo offerings.

[j_factor]

That's been the case ever since 3rd parties abandoned the N64. Yeah there's some decent 3rd party stuff on N64, GC, and Wii, but the Nintendo stuff is generally regarded as the better stuff and the reason you buy the machines - not so you can play RE4.

Speaking for myself, the Nintendo stuff has always been secondary. When I bought the GC and Wii, I was thinking more about third-party stuff than Nintendo. With the GC (purchased early 2003), there were some great Sega games on it, and I was super excited about the then-upcoming Capcom 5. With the Wii (bought at launch), I was more interested in Red Steel, Rayman, Monkey Ball, Trauma Center, and Elebits, than Zelda, which I could've gotten on Gamecube (and in hindsight wish I had), or Excite Truck, which is good but not that exciting. To this day, when I think of my favorite games for both systems, or look at my collections, third-party far outweighs first.

[Gamevet]

I've played quite a few games, PS2, Cube, and others. IMHO, the PS2 library is a lesser version of the XBOx's. I can't think of one PS2-only game that would make me plug my system in (PS3 is YLOD). Matter of fact, 2 weeks ago I found the game I've wanted most (Mega Man X Command Mission) on the PS2 for a while. Haven't even tested it. My least favorite console of the 6th gen.

Yeah, I owned all 3 consoles in their prime and would have periods where I preferred the Xbox, or Gamecube, but the PS2 was always in the rotation. When it came to shooters and RPGs, it was mostly PS2 for me. Ico and Culdcept were very unique games, as was Shadow of the colossus, Ring of Red and shinobi.

Yeah, there were great games on all 3 consoles, but there would come a point where you had played most of the good games on the Gamecube and Xbox within 2 or 3 years. There's still a ton of unexplored games that I've yet to get to on the PS2.

[Nature Boy]

I don't know about that. Now that RE4 is multiplatform, sure, you don't need to buy a GameCube for it, but the game was IMMENSELY popular. The majority of gamers I know would probably pick it as their favorite GameCube game. I don't know if it moved a lot of machines since it didn't come very early on in the GameCube's lifespan, but practically everyone that had a GameCube bought it and enjoyed it every bit, if not more, than the Nintendo offerings.

I guess my question is really, did people generally buy Gamecubes in order to play RE4? Or did Gamecube owners generally buy RE4 simply because it was a good game.

I'm arguing the latter, though I obviously don't *know* it for a fact.

[Nature Boy]

Speaking for myself, the Nintendo stuff has always been secondary.

A fair comment. Everyone's tastes are individual.

Take a look at something like gamerankings.com, and I think we'll find that 50% or more of the top 10 games for those three systems were published by Nintendo. Which is where my 'generally regarded' statement came from.

[NBaco]

Some people did actually buy Gamecubes to play Resident Evil 4, but I think they're the exception and not the rule in this case. I remember people on Gamefaqs bitching endlessly about the PS2 port because they admitted to buying the GC for RE4.

[bangtango]

With the GC (purchased early 2003), there were some great Sega games on it........

Being a sports game afficiando, I enjoyed Sega's Home Run King and that is one of my favorite GC exclusives.

The perception for some was that it was thrown together to pacify people who were unhappy World Series Baseball didn't come over to the Cube but HRK is fun in its own right.

[Mayhem]

I guess my question is really, did people generally buy Gamecubes in order to play RE4? Or did Gamecube owners generally buy RE4 simply because it was a good game.
I imagine some people did buy a Cube for RE4, it did sell well over a million copies in the space of a few months...