Late and less-than-satisfying entry into the XBox 360 club

[NoahsMyBro]

Only a couple of months ago I joined this videogame generation when I bought a PS3. I love the system.

Then, on impulse, I bought a 360 from somebody on Craigslist a month ago. The system was Red-ringing and wouldn't boot, so it was cheap. It included 3 games and one controller so I figured I'd buy it, and if it was dead I could sell of the games to recoup the purchase price.

After paying to have the RROD repaired, I discovered I needed a replacement DVD drive.

Upon disassembling the case to replace the DVD drive, I discovered a few of the structural posts inside the case, the posts that the screws fasten to, are broken, as are several of the clips that hold the various plastic pieces to the system.

I'm already in for $100 on this dog and feeling like the stupid teenager I was in the 80's, buying other people's dud cars and hoping to turn them into something decent.

BUT, I do now have a functional 360.

I still need some sort of storage for the system - either a memory card or hdd, and if I can get a replacement case cheap enough I may replace the case too.

But I have to say, even if I wasn't seeing the problems I'm seeing, the PS3 seems substantially superior to the 360 from a hardware standpoint. The 360 is louder even when working properly, larger, and has a *huge* power brick that barely fit behind the entertainment center furniture. I also need to figure out what to do regarding the 360 and networking. I don't want to drag a CAT5 cable to the system, but don't want to shell out the cash for the 360 wireless adpater either. And I still need to investigate Xbox Live - haven't done that yet either.

So, having played the beginning of "Red Dead Redemption", the beginning of "Lego Raiders of The Lost Ark", and the real-world adventure "Repair Your 360", I'm disappointed so far, but hoping to change my mind over time.

[Bojay1997]

I would still say that having owned both from launch, the 360 still holds the edge in multi-platform releases and Xbox Live is a noticeable improvement over what Playstation offers. Of course, you also have to pay annually which adds up. It's probably too late now, but buying one of the new 360 slims would change everything. The whisper quiet running and built-in wi-fi was enough to convince me to get one at Christmas even though my launch 360 is still working well and it was the best purchase I have made this generation. It's quiet, cooler, smaller and has a high capacity hard drive which makes playing long multiplayer gaming sessions so much more enjoyable. I still wouldn't ditch the PS3 though as a number of the system exclusives are pretty remarkable games.

[eskobar]

Only a couple of months ago I joined this videogame generation when I bought a PS3. I love the system.

Then, on impulse, I bought a 360 from somebody on Craigslist a month ago. The system was Red-ringing and wouldn't boot, so it was cheap. It included 3 games and one controller so I figured I'd buy it, and if it was dead I could sell of the games to recoup the purchase price.

After paying to have the RROD repaired, I discovered I needed a replacement DVD drive.

Upon disassembling the case to replace the DVD drive, I discovered a few of the structural posts inside the case, the posts that the screws fasten to, are broken, as are several of the clips that hold the various plastic pieces to the system.

I'm already in for $100 on this dog and feeling like the stupid teenager I was in the 80's, buying other people's dud cars and hoping to turn them into something decent.

BUT, I do now have a functional 360.

I still need some sort of storage for the system - either a memory card or hdd, and if I can get a replacement case cheap enough I may replace the case too.

But I have to say, even if I wasn't seeing the problems I'm seeing, the PS3 seems substantially superior to the 360 from a hardware standpoint. The 360 is louder even when working properly, larger, and has a *huge* power brick that barely fit behind the entertainment center furniture. I also need to figure out what to do regarding the 360 and networking. I don't want to drag a CAT5 cable to the system, but don't want to shell out the cash for the 360 wireless adpater either. And I still need to investigate Xbox Live - haven't done that yet either.

So, having played the beginning of "Red Dead Redemption", the beginning of "Lego Raiders of The Lost Ark", and the real-world adventure "Repair Your 360", I'm disappointed so far, but hoping to change my mind over time.


I thought the 360 was a LOVE IT or HATE IT console .... but pretty much anyone loves it. Not my case !

I still can't figure out how many people defend the system and its failures with comments like:

- Yep, 360 may die with no reason. ... but you have 3 years of warranty

- Yep, I prefer LIVE over PSN because it is so much better, I don't care if the service costs.




There are many good reasons to buy the system, but very few exclusives that I wanna play. Many multiplatform releases look better on 360 but most are little details that i really don't care.


I think that Ps3 is better :popcorn:

[heybtbm]

I'd like to add:

The 360 wireless controller is the Greatest Controller of All Time. That has to be worth something. I still can't play a FPS with the dualshock's dual analogs...and it's been 13 or so years.

Worth mentioning again...the 360 slim fixed every problem Microsoft had up to that point. It's a beautiful piece of hardware. The PS3...um...it plays blu-rays. I'll give it that.

[megasdkirby]

I'd like to add:

The 360 wireless controller is the Greatest Controller of All Time.

That's to the eye of the beholder.

I like it, it feels good when held. But to call it the best controller ever made is a matter of opinion, not a fact.

I really like the Xbox 360. I still prefer the original classics, like Atari 2600, Colecovision, SMS, NES and the like, however.

Still, it's a great console. I remember being scared playing it, fearing the RROD. Now, it doesn't matter much to me, and I've really come to enjoy the games it has. Some games are really exceptional and make me glad to be a proud owner.

Yet the same can be said about the PS3. Each console is good on it's own right, but I myself cannot choose which one is best. It's all...to the "eye of the beholder".

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Jeez, I haven't played a game on my 360 in close to a year.

Nothing against the console, I think its great, but there hasn't been a platform exclusive that's piqued my interest in that time and I almost always buy my multi-platform software on Sony products with the expectation of backward compatibility in the next generation hardware. (Even if that goes away in the next gen or is only available for early adopters, they've had a good track record with it so far.)

[megasdkirby]

Nothing against the console, I think its great, but there hasn't been a platform exclusive that's piqued my interest in that time and I almost always buy my multi-platform software on Sony products with the expectation of backward compatibility in the next generation hardware. (Even if that goes away in the next gen or is only available for early adopters, they've had a good track record with it so far.)

I usually get the first game that I find cheap that is multiconsole. However, I do try to get the PS3 version first whenever possible. But if I find a game I want, that was released on both consoles, at a cheaper price for the Xbox 360, I get that instead.

What many of my friends can't believe is how I have an Xbox 360 and I still don't care for Halo...at all. Not a bad game, just not my type. My friends say that I am either weird or have bad taste. I think it's the first. :)

[Richter Belmount]

Xbox has great console exclusives such as 60 dollars a year xbox live fee , exclusive axe spray advertisements on the dashboard and exclusive stuff like facebook , last.fm and netflix stuff you cant get on a computer! My favorite exclusive is the red ring of death. My 2nd favorite is Sonic Freeriders on the kinect.

[kupomogli]

It's got an okay amount of exclusives but the poor controller and the cost for XBL really break it for me. The amount of exclusives are atleast enough to make the system worth purchasing(again.) Halo, Perfect Dark 64, Test Drive Unlimited(first,) Dead or Alive 4, Virtua Fighter 5 Online, Dead Rising, Lost Odyssey, Shadow Complex, and Left 4 Dead are all I personally care about on the system that's exclusive(technically.)

A lot of people say the 360 online is much better when it's not. As long as you run wired and have a decent connection, the online is good for both. The only thing you're paying for extra on the 360 is the ability for cross game chat, to play different music on all 360 games, and to even access services such as Netflix regardless that you pay the $7.99(or more) for streaming(which is pretty bs you're locked out of something like this because you don't have XBL Gold.)

[Dobie]

*witty but old xbox slam here*

*rehashed retort here*

*rrod, ylod, my oh my*

*(system of choice) is better because (insert reason here)*

*disagree, defend, fisking point by point*

/thread

[LaughingMAN.S9]

no fanboy but....does 360 even HAVEEE any console exclusives other than gears dropping this year???




seems like sony is DOMINATING this console generation now in terms of actual games, think they even took last year to.....YIKES

[jcalder8]

Wait.... your opinion isn't the same as mine?

Rant grumble rant rant grumble......

wait a minute.......

There are other people besides me........

http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp219/SantaKhala/SuperCoolStoryBro.png

[The 1 2 P]

seems like sony is DOMINATING this console generation

How does one dominate from last place? Sry dude, I had to do it:)

As to the OP, I think that getting the used rrod 360 was your first mistake. Because of that you're now spending even more just to be able to play it. You can sometimes find really good deals for much newer(and working) 360's on craigs list.

As far as the wireless adapter, that you can get on craigs list or other places(ebay, Gamestop, etc) for $30-50(usually the older model). And if you see a wireless adapter for the original Xbox you can use that as well(which is how I connect). Finally, get yourself some free 48 hour XBL trial cards so you can test out the service before you spend $30-40 a year to play. Many newer games have them but you will also find that many of us here sometimes have extras lying around that we don't use. You can also find used 20 and 60 gig hard drives fairly cheap.

The 360 was my second system this gen and since I got it I barely ever touch my Wii(heh). But all three systems have their good points and everyone will probably enjoy playing one more than the others. I don't have a PS3 yet but I've been collecting exclusive games for it over the last two years and can't wait to finally get one to play.

[Kid Ice]

O
But I have to say, even if I wasn't seeing the problems I'm seeing, the PS3 seems substantially superior to the 360 from a hardware standpoint. The 360 is louder even when working properly, larger, and has a *huge* power brick that barely fit behind the entertainment center furniture. I also need to figure out what to do regarding the 360 and networking. I don't want to drag a CAT5 cable to the system, but don't want to shell out the cash for the 360 wireless adpater either. And I still need to investigate Xbox Live - haven't done that yet either.


You mean an offline, broken 360 doesn't seem as good as a PS3? Go figure.

The best part of having an Xbox 360 is Xbox Live. Wait'll you get a load of Game Room. Friend me when you get on there, kidicedp.

[Emuaust]

You bought a broken 360 with no storage and are unhappy with your purchase when comparing it to the functioning PS3, /me facepalms, well, all I can say is the PS3 was either cheap to make a valid comparison or you could be a closet Sony Fanboy

[Enigmus]

Xbox has great console exclusives such as 60 dollars a year xbox live fee , exclusive axe spray advertisements on the dashboard and exclusive stuff like facebook , last.fm and netflix stuff you cant get on a computer! My favorite exclusive is the red ring of death. My 2nd favorite is Sonic Freeriders on the kinect.

This, right here.

From what I've heard from people who jumped from X360 to PS3, this summarizes what they all have said about what they think the 360 is- an overhyped money sucking advertisment shoving flawed box, and I couldn't agree more. Not to mention its' original form looked like a cooling tower when put near the other two.

[Gameguy]

Not to mention its' original form looked like a cooling tower when put near the other two.
Kind of ironic since it had constant problems with overheating.

[jaekwon15]

I'd like to add:

The 360 wireless controller is the Greatest Controller of All Time.

Not with that D-pad.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

How does one dominate from last place? Sry dude, I had to do it:)

As to the OP, I think that getting the used rrod 360 was your first mistake. Because of that you're now spending even more just to be able to play it. You can sometimes find really good deals for much newer(and working) 360's on craigs list.

As far as the wireless adapter, that you can get on craigs list or other places(ebay, Gamestop, etc) for $30-50(usually the older model). And if you see a wireless adapter for the original Xbox you can use that as well(which is how I connect). Finally, get yourself some free 48 hour XBL trial cards so you can test out the service before you spend $30-40 a year to play. Many newer games have them but you will also find that many of us here sometimes have extras lying around that we don't use. You can also find used 20 and 60 gig hard drives fairly cheap.

The 360 was my second system this gen and since I got it I barely ever touch my Wii(heh). But all three systems have their good points and everyone will probably enjoy playing one more than the others. I don't have a PS3 yet but I've been collecting exclusive games for it over the last two years and can't wait to finally get one to play.

lol i like how you conviently left out wat i said directly after the last word


"IN TERMS OF ACTUAL GAMES"


lol this isnt really debatable

[Bojay1997]

lol i like how you conviently left out wat i said directly after the last word


"IN TERMS OF ACTUAL GAMES"


lol this isnt really debatable

I'm sorry, but I will never understand fanboyism for any console. Every one of the three consoles this generation has great exclusives. Sony has had some strong exclusives in the past year with Killzone 3, LBP2, Gran Turismo 5, etc... but the 360 also had a great 2010 with exclusives like Fable 3, Alan Wake, Halo Reach, etc...Heck, the Wii had some amazing games too with Kirby, Donkey Kong, etc...It's just a really great time to be a multi-platform gamer and collector right now.

[The Clonus Horror]

If Valve decided to port the Left4Deads over to the PS3, I would seriously consider selling my 360 and making the jump.

[Damaramu]

I love my 360. I've had it RROD on me once. Got it fixed for free courtesy of MS and it has run flawlessly ever since.

A buddy has a PS3 and while it's a great system with some interesting games, I have yet to see any one game that compels me to purchase it. Regarding the price for XBLA, you don't have to pay full price for a year of Gold. Every week or every other week I see deals for XBLA gold memberships that run under $40 at various retail spots online.

Finally, the controllers. I love the Dual Shock controller but for first person shooters, I find the analog sticks are positioned just too close to each other and they cramp up my hands (I've got big hands) after a while.

The 360 controller just feels better in my hand. Yeah the default dpad sucks, but didn't they fix that with the latest incarnation of the controller? Plus, I rarely use the dpad for any games other than fighting, and I've got the Mad Catz controllers for that stuff.

[eskobar]

How does one dominate from last place? Sry dude, I had to do it:)

As to the OP, I think that getting the used rrod 360 was your first mistake. Because of that you're now spending even more just to be able to play it. You can sometimes find really good deals for much newer(and working) 360's on craigs list.

As far as the wireless adapter, that you can get on craigs list or other places(ebay, Gamestop, etc) for $30-50(usually the older model). And if you see a wireless adapter for the original Xbox you can use that as well(which is how I connect). Finally, get yourself some free 48 hour XBL trial cards so you can test out the service before you spend $30-40 a year to play. Many newer games have them but you will also find that many of us here sometimes have extras lying around that we don't use. You can also find used 20 and 60 gig hard drives fairly cheap.

The 360 was my second system this gen and since I got it I barely ever touch my Wii(heh). But all three systems have their good points and everyone will probably enjoy playing one more than the others. I don't have a PS3 yet but I've been collecting exclusive games for it over the last two years and can't wait to finally get one to play.

But aren't your suggestions a workaround the problem ?

I think that the lack of WiFi support of the 360 is a huge problem in a time where even the Wii an many bluray players support it. Yes, you can get great deals .... but why not include it in the first place ?.


And I really cant believe WHY YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY ONLINE !?!??!, isn't this cost considered in the price of a retail game ?. And again, you can find a way to get cheaper XBL cards, but why pay ???

From what I know, if EA wants to offer online play they setup servers for it .... so I suppose that if Microsoft offers a networking structure, THEY CHARGE DEVELOPERS to use them; so why MS charges the developers and consumers too ??? ... and worst if EA sets up the servers and still you got to pay !!! :ass:


Even if the annual fee is affordable, its inexcusable for MS not to offer free online play. Small details like this just made me buy the Ps3, and no; i don't have any particular problems with the online play that is free, it plays fine :bday:

[Emperor Megas]

You mean an offline, broken 360 doesn't seem as good as a PS3? Go figure.



You bought a broken 360 with no storage and are unhappy with your purchase when comparing it to the functioning PS3, /me facepalms, well, all I can say is the PS3 was either cheap to make a valid comparison or you could be a closet Sony FanboyThis. Honestly, why you'd purchase a broken, late model 360 in the first place, with no hard drive, is beyond me. To think that someone would have an unbiased opinion of the thing after dealing with the process of repairing it is a reach.


I thought the 360 was a LOVE IT or HATE IT console .... but pretty much anyone loves it. Not my case !

I still can't figure out how many people defend the system and its failures with comments like:

- Yep, 360 may die with no reason. ... but you have 3 years of warranty

- Yep, I prefer LIVE over PSN because it is so much better, I don't care if the service costs.What don't you understand about people who are willing to pay for a superior service? I don't game online at all, and don't have a Live! subscription, but I understand that people would rather have a better pay service than a free alternative that isn't as good.

[eskobar]

What don't you understand about people who are willing to pay for a superior service? I don't game online at all, and don't have a Live! subscription, but I understand that people would rather have a better pay service than a free alternative that isn't as good.

If you don't play online how can you say that free is bad ?, the online structure of the game is included in the 59.99 usd that you pay for the game, is not like we are talking about World of Warcraft !!

And I do understand that many of us would like to pay for a superior service ... but IT IS THE ONLY SERVICE, you don't even have a choice :roll:

In your case, don't you care about online play or you just don't want to pay the fee when you only play one hour a month ?, wouldn't be good to have the option to try an online segment of a game with no other costs involved ?

Do you think that PSN is bad because is free ??:roll:

[cityside75]

I still need some sort of storage for the system - either a memory card or hdd, and if I can get a replacement case cheap enough I may replace the case too.

Perhaps you're already aware of this, but the 360 can now use USB flash drives - up to 16GB - for storage. Considering my pro only has a 20GB hard drive, that's a pretty good amount of space that you can pick up cheaper than a HDD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4J3bmAmOPc

[Howie6925]

What don't you understand about people who are willing to pay for a superior service? I don't game online at all, and don't have a Live! subscription, but I understand that people would rather have a better pay service than a free alternative that isn't as good.

Can someone please explain to me how LIVE is better then playing online on a PS3 system. I own both Im not on live anymore because I refuse to pay to play, as far as playing on the ps3 I have no problems what so ever and I am on wireless. I dont know how it is better if I have to pay. The only game I have trouble playing on is Black ops(surprise, surprise) as everyone who owns the pc/ps3 version is aswell. Even is you were to pay for sonys pay service you get free stuff all the time, while MS offers nothing free and does nothing but try and gouge every penny it can from its customers.

[The Clonus Horror]

I just cancelled my Xbox Live service, but for a reason no one has mentioned yet in this thread: I spend way too much money downloading games/movies/add-ons than what my budget affords me. I hooked up my PS2 online last night and had a lot of fun playing Star Wars: Battlefront 2 with a bunch of people. First, it was free. Second, I wasn't completely outmatched. Third, there were no assholes. Fourth, and most importantly, I wasn't being assaulted by advertising and there was no option available to buy something further. I know gaming companies are in it for the money, but wow, aggressive target marketing is running wild! I neither have the will to resist nor the money to cover that character flaw.

[eskobar]

most importantly, I wasn't being assaulted by advertising.



pfffffffffffffffffffffffff, advertising is really annoying .... and on a paid subscription is .... well .... you know .... :ass: LOL

[The Clonus Horror]

I certainly don't regret the purchases I've made or the time I spent on Live--I just think it's a priority right now to not go any further with it. Also, I'm not sure what it says when I spend the majority of my time on such a powerful system playing Game Room and Pac-Man Championship Edition and DX...

[SegaAges]

I would rather pay $60 a year than $15 a month on a MMO, so I am ok with spending $60 a year.

I don't own a ps3, but playing games on live is not bad at all, and pretty fun as long as you avoid EA games since EA uses their own servers instead of the XBox ones, so for some games, it sucks ass to play online (this is the reason why I stopped playing Skate 3 online).

For PSN, is it all Sony servers that host the games, or do the companies need to have their own servers?

[LaughingMAN.S9]

honestly only real advantage over psn from xbox live (apart from cross game chat) is the fact that older games are still supported, try goin into the lobby for splinter cell double agent today, its a ghost town, and when i first bought the game, 8 months after release, there were on average, at most, TOPS, 12 ppl online playing that, lol every day it would be the same 12, we were almost on 1st name basis there it was so cozy


i guess thats just 1 of the perks of having a larger install base

[The 1 2 P]

"IN TERMS OF ACTUAL GAMES"


lol this isnt really debatable

It's very debatable. See Bojay's post.


But aren't your suggestions a workaround the problem ?

Well he bought a broken old model 360. Why wouldn't I other helpful suggestions:roll:


I think that the lack of WiFi support of the 360 is a huge problem in a time where even the Wii an many bluray players support it. Yes, you can get great deals .... but why not include it in the first place ?.

The new slim models have built in wifi.



And I really cant believe WHY YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY ONLINE !?!??!, isn't this cost considered in the price of a retail game ?. And again, you can find a way to get cheaper XBL cards, but why pay ???

Why pay? Two reason: 1.) Because in my experience it's the best console online service available and 2.) I've never paid more than $30 a year for Live and the first two years I only paid $8 a year. I'm sure that the majority of people on this site pay more in one month for their cell phone bill than I pay for an entire year of XBL


Small details like this just made me buy the Ps3, and no; i don't have any particular problems with the online play that is free, it plays fine :bday:

Do you want a cookie? The people who pay for XBL enjoy the service just as much as you enjoy PSN. The difference is that they aren't bitching about you playing on your preferred service.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

i feel like ppl are looking at my original post that seems to have sparked this whole console debate and looking deeper into it than i intended, but in 2011 ps3 seems to be the console to get for system exclusives, i didnt mean anything more than that, i can name something like 12 exclusives already without really even thinking about it, 360 on the other hand, really only gears comes to mind and i think thats it



i own all 3 consoles btw, and i am by no means a fanboy, i do really think that the ps3 is the best console this generation

[Bojay1997]

But aren't your suggestions a workaround the problem ?

I think that the lack of WiFi support of the 360 is a huge problem in a time where even the Wii an many bluray players support it. Yes, you can get great deals .... but why not include it in the first place ?.


And I really cant believe WHY YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY ONLINE !?!??!, isn't this cost considered in the price of a retail game ?. And again, you can find a way to get cheaper XBL cards, but why pay ???

From what I know, if EA wants to offer online play they setup servers for it .... so I suppose that if Microsoft offers a networking structure, THEY CHARGE DEVELOPERS to use them; so why MS charges the developers and consumers too ??? ... and worst if EA sets up the servers and still you got to pay !!! :ass:


Even if the annual fee is affordable, its inexcusable for MS not to offer free online play. Small details like this just made me buy the Ps3, and no; i don't have any particular problems with the online play that is free, it plays fine :bday:

First of all, you are ignoring the fact that the PS3 launched at a much higher price point than the 360. I bought my PS3 three days after launch at Target and with California tax it was $650. My launch 360 was $440 with tax. That extra $200 basically covered the blu ray player and wi-fi. Frankly, I didn't have home wireless until two years ago and while I have rented a few blu rays over the years and actually have a stand alone blu ray player, I own a total of a couple dozen blu rays which I never watch and they were all freebies from my employer. Would I have preferred a $400 PS3 without Blu Ray and Wi-Fi at launch? Perhaps, but I didn't have that choice as Sony had no such option and still doesn't.

As far as online play, Xbox Live was way ahead of Sony PSN in developing acheivements and has always had better lobby system and communication options. Do I wish it was free? Absolutely, but I also understand that I am paying for a service and Sony has been struggling to find ways to make PSN pay. They now have PSN Plus and third parties have looked for ways to make money off of PSN including charging fees for on-line access if you buy a game used. Do you really think Sony wants to be providing free on-line services? Nope, but having been in third place for this entire generation, they probably didn't feel it was a viable approach to try and impose fees for on-line.

I agree that this year will be a great one for PS3 exclusives and likely there will be more PS3 exclusives I will buy than 360 exclusives. That doesn't change the fact that the PS3 had some bad years and years where the 360 had more great exclusives and years where a number of PS3 versions of multi-platform games were frankly broken and unplayable. Similarly, I can't imagine not being able to play Super Mario Galaxy, Kirby, etc..and I can't wait to see what Nintendo announces for the Wii at E3 this year including hopefully a new Zelda. Like I said, being devoted to one platform is sad and disappointing.

[heybtbm]

I can't wait to see what Nintendo announces for the Wii at E3 this year including hopefully a new Zelda.

?

Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Skyward_Sword) was announced almost 2 years ago. Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying.

[Emperor Megas]

If you don't play online how can you say that free is bad ?,I don't think I ever said that.


...the online structure of the game is included in the 59.99 usd that you pay for the game, is not like we are talking about World of Warcraft !!FTR, I'd never pay that much for a game. I almost never go over 20 bucks for a modern game. I'm just saying.


And I do understand that many of us would like to pay for a superior service ... but IT IS THE ONLY SERVICE, you don't even have a choice :roll:I'm a little confused about you mean. PC, Wii and the PlayStation3 all have online gaming after all.


In your case, don't you care about online play or you just don't want to pay the fee when you only play one hour a month ?,I don't care about online play AND I don't want to pay for it.


wouldn't be good to have the option to try an online segment of a game with no other costs involved ?Yes.


Do you think that PSN is bad because is free ??:roll:No. I'm wondering why you would even think that from anything that I said. And rolling your eyes because I explained why someone prefers XBOX Live! to PSN, seriously?

[eskobar]

It's very debatable. See Bojay's post.


Why pay? Two reason: 1.) Because in my experience it's the best console online service available and 2.) I've never paid more than $30 a year for Live and the first two years I only paid $8 a year. I'm sure that the majority of people on this site pay more in one month for their cell phone bill than I pay for an entire year of XBL



Do you want a cookie? The people who pay for XBL enjoy the service just as much as you enjoy PSN. The difference is that they aren't bitching about you playing on your preferred service.

You are taking this too personal, mate; anyone can do as they please with their money.

I just don't understand why Microsoft doesn't even give you a choice, because they charge publishers to use the LIVE servers and they get money for ads, they get money for XBLA sales too .... and still charge you for use the service ?!?!?!?

I don't complaint about the service of LIVE because its very good, but so PSN ...

Thanks for the cookie :roll:



As far as online play, Xbox Live was way ahead of Sony PSN in developing acheivements and has always had better lobby system and communication options. Do I wish it was free? Absolutely, but I also understand that I am paying for a service and Sony has been struggling to find ways to make PSN pay. They now have PSN Plus and third parties have looked for ways to make money off of PSN including charging fees for on-line access if you buy a game used. Do you really think Sony wants to be providing free on-line services? Nope, but having been in third place for this entire generation, they probably didn't feel it was a viable approach to try and impose fees for on-line.

I agree that this year will be a great one for PS3 exclusives and likely there will be more PS3 exclusives I will buy than 360 exclusives. That doesn't change the fact that the PS3 had some bad years and years where the 360 had more great exclusives and years where a number of PS3 versions of multi-platform games were frankly broken and unplayable. Similarly, I can't imagine not being able to play Super Mario Galaxy, Kirby, etc..and I can't wait to see what Nintendo announces for the Wii at E3 this year including hopefully a new Zelda. Like I said, being devoted to one platform is sad and disappointing.


Good point, but don't forget that the online infrastructure is a cost the developers/publishers have to absorb. Look at the online play for another consoles, Nintendo doesn't charge for online play either.

And about the exclusives, 2011 looks great for PS3; Uncharted 3 is something i am looking forward to .... And obviously DARK SOULS that is algo coming out for 360 :)

[Leo_A]

I love the Xbox 360.

It has my favorite controller since the Super Nintendo (The only weak link is the horrible d-pad). It has many great retail exclusives that I've enjoyed. It's not terribly uncommon for games or DLC expansions to be timed exclusives for the platform, where as it rarely ever happens the other way around this generation. It's often the lead development platform, especially earlier on, which often led to the 360 version of a multiplatform game being superior. It's online network and integration into the experience is superior. And XBLA has many great exclusives.

It's left my PS3 relegated to the occasional exclusive and playing videos off the hard drive, DVD, and Blu-Ray. Beyond 3D Dot Game Heroes, GT5, Heavy Rain, the MotorStorm series, the Resistance series, and the Uncharted series, I can't really think of anything I've played on it and had a lot of fun with.

Beyond some of the Classic HD releases we're slated for (And the Sly collection that I don't have yet), the Ico/SotC remake, The Last Guardian,
and sequels to Uncharted/Resistance/Motorstorm, there isn't even anything on the horizon that has my attention.

It's basically in the same position the Wii is for me. Nice to have for the occasional Sony published exclusive, but little else. The 360 is where the bulk of my current generation gaming occurs.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Ouch, that's a painful entry alright! LOL


How does one dominate from last place?

You'd have to ask Nintendo to find out. :p

I don't own a PS3 or 360, but I've played games on both. My preference does lean to the PS3, if only for the online model and a system that has a better track record of durability and longevity. The games can be better/worse either way. So again, microsoft will be the last into my gameroom. Unless I can pull a modded one down for trade or super cheap. If the system is going to die at any random time, I don't feel like buying much for it anyway.

[Emperor Megas]

If the system is going to die at any random time, I don't feel like buying much for it anyway.FTR, that would be one of the earlier models. It's since been redesigned, but you probably know that already.

[The Clonus Horror]

Okay, I caved in and renewed my live...but at a 40% discount, which came out to $35.99. They offered it to me since I'd been a member for a few years. $3-ish/month? That's not too bad. Now, all I have to do is exhibit some willpower and not splurge on downloadable games. ;)

[Richter Belmount]

BUT GAIS THERES SOOOOO MUCH YOU GET FOR 60 DOLLARS A YEAR , I could never use netflix on a computer! Or any other gaming consoles or devices!

[Leo_A]

BUT GAIS THERES SOOOOO MUCH YOU GET FOR 60 DOLLARS A YEAR , I could never use netflix on a computer! Or any other gaming consoles or devices!

Stop being an idiot, it isn't adding anything to this thread. We get your opinion of the Xbox 360 and it's userbase already.

And who is paying $60 a year for Xbox Live anyways? I sure never have and I've been a subscriber since the original Xbox.

[Richter Belmount]

Okay want me to add more : ) in terms of detail , I like how I buy games off of xbox live arcade its so convient and awesome! But if my internet is down and I want to play a xbox live arcade game , thats not going to happen. So when you purchase a game off of xbox live , you technically dont own it and your stuck playing the trial version of the game, that has to be the best feature of the console its lousy drm.

Not just that you also have to be real specific these days if you want dont want to waste your money on xbox live. Most of the popular games these are centered around multiplayer , a huge fraction of content cut off just cause you dont want xbox live . So where is your 60 dollars going? To a military fps with a 5 hour single player campaign : P , thats a ripoff. I dont have to spend even more money just to play the other half of the game thats free on other platforms?


Microsoft doesnt even let you watch netflix on your console unless you have xbox live gold , something you dont need to pay for on Ps3 of the nintendo wii other than your netflix subscription.

[Leo_A]

But if my internet is down and I want to play a xbox live arcade game , thats not going to happen.

Maybe you can't, but that's never happened to me. When my system failed and was quickly replaced, Microsoft transferred my licenses. And when I upgraded to a newer model, they had a license transfer utility that I used to easily restore my offline access to my content.

I'm sorry you're ignorant where this console is concerned and can't figure out how to play your content offline while paying twice as much as you have to for Xbox Live. But for those that pay even the slightest attention to the platform, it doesn't apply.

[Richter Belmount]

Thats as practical as your other solutions , everyone learn to fly a jet if you want to avoid tsa touching you! . My solution for xbox is buy another one. It didnt cost me more money except that whole buying another console thing.

So its okay for the average consumer to be screwed with their crappy drm , paying more for the other half of their games (for multiplayer modes). To pay for developers to make even less content for the consumer , just for only multiplayer to hold up? Then buying their games on xbox live only to not really own it?

[Leo_A]

Thats as practical as your other solutions , everyone learn to fly a jet if you want to avoid tsa touching you! . My solution for xbox is buy another one. I didnt cost me more money except that whole buying another console thing.

What are you rambling about? Flying a jet? TSA touching me? Huh?

I don't think you're playing with a full deck, but I'll try again.

What does buying another Xbox 360 have to do with maintaining offline access to your content? I only even mentioned it just to illustrate how easy it was to maintain offline access to your content. I was able to buy a new console and I still was able to play everything offline within 10 minutes of hooking it up.

My original system still works just fine. In fact it remains hooked up to a 4:3 SD CRT for playing classic games from XBLA and some compilations, and I still have offline access to my XBLA games on it since I've kept if offline since doing the license transfer. I did it just because I liked it's appearance more.

It's hard to imagine between Microsoft doing the transfer for you if you need repairs and the license transfer utility that allows you to initiate a license transfer once a year, ever being in a situation where I wouldn't be able to play my stuff offline.

[Richter Belmount]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXZ5dzm8paA <- 5:12

It happens and not everyone can be the exception.

[Leo_A]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXZ5dzm8paA <- 5:12

It happens and not everyone can be the exception.

I'm not going to watch that junk. If by some chance it has some bearing on the subject, explain to me what it is since I'm not going to listen to that video.

[Richter Belmount]

guy with the same problem I had , and him making a case about dlc and drm. Rather short segment : P

[Leo_A]

guy with the same problem I had , and him making a case about dlc and drm. Rather short segment : P

What was the problem? DRM certainly sucks and I'm not even attempting to fight that. But in the overwhelming amount of cases, someone doesn't have to concern themselves over losing their offline access to their content while Xbox Live is supported since it's easy enough to restore.

The problems are going to start when support ramps down for all three of these consoles in a few years. None of the three are nearly as reliable as many systems of generations gone by, and without servers (Or Nintendo tech support in the case of the Wii where there is absolutely no way for users to retrieve their content on a different system), all DLC buyers that want to keep playing past the commercial lifes of their systems are quite likely to be up a creek without a paddle someday.

It's not a problem unique to the Xbox 360, sadly.

[The 1 2 P]

You are taking this too personal, mate; anyone can do as they please with their money.

I just don't understand why Microsoft doesn't even give you a choice, because they charge publishers to use the LIVE servers and they get money for ads, they get money for XBLA sales too .... and still charge you for use the service ?!?!?!?

I don't take anything on message boards personal, I was just responding to your inquires. Like Bojay already said, XBL users like myself would love to be able to play online games for free. But we can't because Microsoft charges and thats fine because 1.) they have a great online service and 2.) my $30 a year comes out to $2.50 a month. With my two jobs I can more than handle that.

I don't really care which system people play on but XBL is my preferred online network. In one of my earlier threads a year and a half ago I even talked about how I would love to be able to play third party online games with PS3 and Wii owners cross platform but alas thats only a pipe dream (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135482&highlight=pipe+dream).

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

It's hard to imagine between Microsoft doing the transfer for you if you need repairs and the license transfer utility that allows you to initiate a license transfer once a year, ever being in a situation where I wouldn't be able to play my stuff offline.

Just to play devils advocate, I've been through 6 360s since launch at no fault of my own. (First three had A/V output problems, 4th and 5th had optical drive issues - not a one RROD'ed)

A few years back (and I posted about this then) when my 360 crapped out, I had just previously recently used their newly created online license transfer tool to consolidate licenses from some older software that had recently begun to see the effects of being tied to the older systems and after one of the firmware updates no longer could be played offline. (And I also wanted to remove an old expired credit card from my dashboard which Microsoft at the time provided no option to remove manually online or on the system and refused to do via customer service ... they've since become better about that).

Literally WEEKS after using the tool (which I was well aware can't be used more than once a year) my system suffered some kind of electrical failure on the motherboard (it wouldn't send power to the DVD drive at all).

This was also around the time that MS had created the allegedly cooler running Jasper board on the Arcade system, so instead of sending my several year old crapped out system in for repairs to MS, I opted for buying a brand new Arcade unit with a nice new wireless controller and the two free games (Sega SuperStar Tennis and the XBLA Arcade Classics disc combo).

Now, I figured that Microsoft customer support would be able to be reasoned with by a calm reasonable, intelligent guy that could rationalize his position on the matter and that they would transfer my license over to the Arcade system on request.

They didn't.

They wouldn't.

I spent about a week talking to all levels of service personnel and because I didn't send my old system in for repair/replacement and had used the license transfer tool they insisted on refusing my request and I was left with a system that I could not play a SIGNIFICANT amount of the software on the HDD without being online AND worse, some games wouldn't allow me to play outside of demo mode (or properly access my save files) without being played on the system that had my XBLA content license.

I am aware that in recent years that the situation that I present had apparently become a more common one and that they eventually rectified their limitations on being able to A.) take a credit card off your acount by simply going online and doing so and B.) that they'll pretty much do the license transfer on request if your excuse is that you purchased up to a new system (with the new slim model hitting the market I suppose they'd have a million cases like mine for all the users who purchased those to avoid the troubles of the original units).

And, yes, I'm also aware that my unwillingness to allow MS to "repair" my 360 (AKA send me a refurb that likely did not have a newly crafted Jasper board) and my use of the license transfer tool which they clearly state can only be used once a year caused me to be a big part of my own problem, but SINCE that time Microsfoft apparently have seen the error of their ways in being so strict with their policies.

And as far as you not being able to imagine a senario where somebody is unable to play 360 games for some reason - for the better part of a year I had a situation that was exactly that. I was stuck not being able to play games that I paid for based on what some have called "draconian DRM" that needs to be tied to one single system and one single user ID to function properly.

Based on my first hand experience I wish that Nintendo MS would loosen up that DRM like Apple and Sony. Having up FIVE consoles (or iOS products) to be "active" under one account allows for a much safer scenario for the end user in the event that something craps out and you NEED to get new hardware.

[megasdkirby]

Based on my first hand experience I wish that Nintendo MS would loosen up that DRM like Apple and Sony. Having up FIVE consoles (or iOS products) to be "active" under one account allows for a much safer scenario for the end user in the event that something craps out and you NEED to get new hardware.

Agreed. This is why I try my best to get a game on the PS3 through the PS Network than getting it on the Xbox 360. The limitation is relaxed quite a bit on the PS3/PSP than on the Xbox 360...and let's not even forget the worst offender: Nintendo.

[josekortez]

After I finally got my hands on a slim 360 last year, I'm no longer soured on the system. Those vents in the top of the newer version of the system made a world of difference with the overheating problem.

[eskobar]

I don't take anything on message boards personal, I was just responding to your inquires. Like Bojay already said, XBL users like myself would love to be able to play online games for free. But we can't because Microsoft charges and thats fine because 1.) they have a great online service and 2.) my $30 a year comes out to $2.50 a month. With my two jobs I can more than handle that.

I don't really care which system people play on but XBL is my preferred online network. In one of my earlier threads a year and a half ago I even talked about how I would love to be able to play third party online games with PS3 and Wii owners cross platform but alas thats only a pipe dream (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135482&highlight=pipe+dream).

I know that you can pay .... even in Mexico we can afford to pay, but still you can't just ignore that MS is sucking too much for XBL; I love to play with 360 users too, but as you said, pretty much a pipe dream.

Still think that XBL is great, but still has issues and you should have a free option from MS, not giving a choice for free online play is just not correct.

[heybtbm]

I've been through 6 360s since launch at no fault of my own. (First three had A/V output problems, 4th and 5th had optical drive issues - not a one RROD'ed)

Just curious...how many of those 6 360's were brand new (i.e. you were the 1st owner)? I always hear these fantastic numbers of dead 360's people have owned. Usually when you dig a little deeper, you find out that only 1 or 2 were actually bought "new" and the rest were previously owned. Please understand...I'm not doubting you or setting you up for a "gotcha". I'm just curious because (obviously) six 360's is quite a few. Even for an avid gamer.

[Leo_A]

Your situation sounds pretty unusual, Frankie.

For someone that buys their content on a single account and usually utilizes Microsoft's support when repairs are necessary (And thus, gets a license transfer that doesn't count towards the limit) or at least doesn't upgrade to a new console more than once in a 12 month span, they're going to always be able to play their stuff offline.

So I'll stand by what I said, I find it difficult to imagine myself (That's actually what I said) ever being in a situation where I wouldn't be able to play this stuff offline while Xbox Live is supported. And I feel safe in saying that applies to the vast majority of people out there. Most people aren't buying two of the same system within a 12 month span, even at the height of the RROD issue. So that 1 transfer limit in a 12 month span isn't going to affect the vast majority of users.

And sadly, it's still not always easy to remove a credit card. Even though the ability is available through XboxLive.com, many people, including myself, are still unable to remove their credit card. I had a card, long unused, that was entered years ago when one was required even when using a prepaid subscription card just to sign up. All it was ever used for was buying the PGR2 booster packs a half decade ago.

When attempting to remove it, it gives an error message stating it's associated with an active transaction and specifies that it's a 12 month prepaid Xbox Live subscription card that it's tied to (Try to figure that one out, I sure can't). All it's ever been used for was two expansion packs a half decade ago on the original Xbox, I've always used prepaid subscription cards with this account and points cards for 360 purchases. And it's not an isolated incident since I've seen others report a similar problem at various forums.

[megasdkirby]

My main problem with Microsoft is their lack of ANY type of help regarding billing. I'm currently having an issue in which Paypal is not being accepted when before it used to work perfectly. Even Microsoft billing website says my account is ok, yet the idiots at Help Support don't even want to help.

Argh...

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Just curious...how many of those 6 360's were brand new (i.e. you were the 1st owner)? I always hear these fantastic numbers of dead 360's people have owned. Usually when you dig a little deeper, you find out that only 1 or 2 were actually bought "new" and the rest were previously owned. Please understand...I'm not doubting you or setting you up for a "gotcha". I'm just curious because (obviously) six 360's is quite a few. Even for an avid gamer.

All of them were brand new.

Here's my timeline/tally of 360 system ownership:

Units 1-4

The first three were 2005 lanuch week units. I paid for one pro bundle on launch at Best Buy and that one, as well as the subsequent two that I took home that day wouldn't output A/V properly or at all.

So it was three brand new 360s brought home, opened, set up and returned because they were DOA right out of the box.

Now, yes I'm sure some of you may wag a finger of disapproval at me counting each of those BUT, I'm unaware of any statute of limitation that one has to go through to count a system as "owned" and since I brought each one home, and set each one up I see no reason not to count them in my total ownership tally. Granted, if you don't want to count those, that's fine, you can count the first four as one if it helps you feel better about it.

So, the fourth one I got on launch week worked, but about a year later the DVD tray went from opening once every third time I pressed the eject button to not opening at all ever. I was out of warranty at that point and MS hadn't done their universal 3 year RROD extended warranty YET.

Unit 5

When unit 4 failed I bought a core unit on the cheap at GameStop, kept my HDD from my original and played that one for another couple of years before the DVD unit gave up the ghost. About a week prior to it crapping out I did that license transfer to be able to get that credit card off the dashboard and play a few games that were suddently having DRM problems. I could have gone with the extended MS warranty, but at the time, as I said, I wanted the jasper unit, not a refurb back from MS.

Unit 6

Unit 6, which is my current 360 is an Arcade unit that I bought from the Digital Press store. That's the one that I had to wait a year to play about a quarter of the XBLA games sitting on the HDD thanks to my license transfer fiasco.

So, yeah. Whether you want to count my total ownership as 3 or 6 to answer your question - they were all brand new.


Your situation sounds pretty unusual, Frankie.

Yes, it absolutely is and I hate being the guy that it happened to.