TV for retro gaming?

[teh_L0ki]

Hi, I'm new to this forum but it seems the best place to ask. I recently have developed an interest in reliving my childhood by reinvesting in classic console gaming. However, I understand that modern lcd televisions create input lag, ghosting, and reduced image quality from scaling / de-interlacing and any number of other negative side-effects.

I currently have access to both a HD LCD, SD LCD, HD Plasma, and of the greatest interest a Sony KV-30HS420 30-Inch FD Trinitron WEGA. The Trinitron is what I've been using for gaming on my cube / ps2 / xbox and it seems to work pretty well. What I'm wondering is if anybody has any experience or recommendations as to how well this television would handle older consoles such as the nes / snes / n64 / genesis / etc.

I'm not really interested personally in any of the older consoles such as the magnavox odyssey (even though I enjoyed playing it and I might want one in the future).

In a nutshell I'm asking how well this TV will preform regarding image quality, and input lag on those older systems such as the nes. I hope this is the most appropriate forum and somebody is able to give me some guidance. Thanks in advance :)

[Parodius Duh!]

if you want the real experience, go to a local goodwill or other donation center and pick up a nice 80's wood panelled CRT television for 10 bucks. I still say CRT is the best picture for any system that was made in the era when all we had were CRT televisions. LCD televisions look terrible!

[Sysop]

Just buy yourself a CRT television and reap the results of nostalgia.

[teh_L0ki]

Just buy yourself a CRT television and reap the results of nostalgia.

The Sony Trinitron I mentioned is a CRT but it's a HD CRT. I was wondering how much of a difference it would be between a 1080i and a 480i tv in terms of quality and input lag because it would have to upscale the image. However my tv supports both native progressive 480p and 1080i so it wouldn't have to de-interlace.


if you want the real experience, go to a local goodwill or other donation center and pick up a nice 80's wood panelled CRT television for 10 bucks. I still say CRT is the best picture for any system that was made in the era when all we had were CRT televisions. LCD televisions look terrible!

I didn't even realize you could get tvs at goodwill. 0_o

Would picking up a standard def old school crt work better than just using my HD CRT?

[cynicalhat]

i have a 27" inch sony wega. bar none the crispest image for a CRT. its got s video compnent and composite. slap a switcher on and you are in business. go on craigslist for a good deal, sometimes people are just giving them away.

[JLukas]

If you haven't noticed any lag or picture quality issues with the CRT Wega with those last gen systems, older consoles should be just fine. If there is an issue, the TV should have an option in the on screen menu to turn off upscaling (the setting might go by some other name like DRC) Try it out and see if there's any noticeable difference.

Be sure to get s-video cables for the old consoles that support it (SNES, N64) Genesis looks amazing too if you can get someone to mod the system with an s-video jack.

[teh_L0ki]

If you haven't noticed any lag or picture quality issues with the CRT Wega with those last gen systems, older consoles should be just fine. If there is an issue, the TV should have an option in the on screen menu to turn off upscaling (the setting might go by some other name like DRC) Try it out and see if there's any noticeable difference.

Be sure to get s-video cables for the old consoles that support it (SNES, N64) Genesis looks amazing too if you can get someone to mod the system with an s-video jack.

Based on suggestions in this thread I'm actually looking at purchasing a 27 inch trinitron wega off craig's list for $50 :)

My current HDTV works fine for last gen consoles and therefore handles 480i upscaling fine, I'm just worried about how it will handle things like 240p on the snes.

[Collector_Gaming]

other then my plasma 42 inch i have a old skool JC Penny (yes i said JC Penny the place where you buy clothes) color tv from the early 80s perfect for NES, Master System, and Atari goodness!!!

[cynicalhat]

I don't have the HD version of the wega. The SD one is problably better anyway for older systems. I just need an appropriate stereo reciever so I can hook up some nice speakers. I'm having a hard time finding a new one that still takes svideo at a reasonable price.

[teh_L0ki]

i have a 27" inch sony wega. bar none the crispest image for a CRT. its got s video compnent and composite. slap a switcher on and you are in business. go on craigslist for a good deal, sometimes people are just giving them away.

By a splitter do you mean something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-28750-Composite-Selector/dp/B0032ANC8M/ref=sr_1_20?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1300110926&sr=1-20

If so I already have one I'm using. I'm going to be picking up my 27 inch today and it sounds great, I'm just hoping I won't have problems getting it home and up the stairs because it weighs 60 pounds :help:

[cynicalhat]

yup, that kind of splitter will work perfectly. 60 lbs? pshhh it weighs 103 according to the manual. grab someone to help you cause the weight is all at the front.

*remember to lift with your legs lol*

[teh_L0ki]

yup, that kind of splitter will work perfectly. 60 lbs? pshhh it weighs 103 according to the manual. grab someone to help you cause the weight is all at the front.

*remember to lift with your legs lol*

Yeah I checked the manual later and noticed the weight... it's a bit worrying to be honest. I don't think I'm going to be able to do this by myself and the only other person around who could help is my mother who is getting up there in years (and I don't want to break her).

I mean I want the tv but am I really going to even get this thing up some stairs without movers?

[cynicalhat]

you can do it, even if its a few stairs at a time. grab it from the font (display side) and get your hands around the lower sides and keep your back as straight as possible. put it on the floor and squat. grab around the lower sides and try to stand a bit. use your legs NOT your arms/back. take it up a stair or three and put it back down and rest for a a few seconds. repeat till its up the stairs. flex your stomach muscles for added stability.

*if your back hurts, STOP!*

[teh_L0ki]

you can do it, even if its a few stairs at a time. grab it from the font (display side) and get your hands around the lower sides and keep your back as straight as possible. put it on the floor and squat. grab around the lower sides and try to stand a bit. use your legs NOT your arms/back. take it up a stair or three and put it back down and rest for a a few seconds. repeat till its up the stairs. flex your stomach muscles for added stability.

*if your back hurts, STOP!*

What I'm thinking I'm going to do is tell the man I'm purchasing it from that I really don't feel I'm going to be able to move it up the stairs by myself nor am I willing to hire movers to get it done. I'm going to ask him how much I would have to pay him extra to ride with me to my house and help carry it up the stairs. If he's unwilling or wants more than an additional $50 to carry it (the TV is $50 to begin with) I'll probably just call off the purchase.

I'm a scrawny guy and I don't feel confident in my own abilities to move it up stairs and my parents (who I'm living with at the moment because I'm obviously very successful in life :cool:) are really too old to help.

[cynicalhat]

look in the basement or something for a two wheeled dolly or something to give you leverage. 103 lbs isnt thaaaat much. when i got my tv in 2004 i got it up and i was scrawny as all heck also. i was just determined to get that thing up stairs cause my old tv broke.

[Collector_Gaming]

ya know its funny i was at a super market that deals with bulk called BJ's (its like COSTCO) and i remember seeing a 20 dollar fold up dollie that folds up into the size of a brief case and can hold up to 180 pounds.. .not that helps your situation really lol

[Darko]

i have a 27" inch sony wega. bar none the crispest image for a CRT. its got s video compnent and composite. slap a switcher on and you are in business. go on craigslist for a good deal, sometimes people are just giving them away.

This all the way. I also have a 27" Sony Wega with a switcher that has component/svideo/composite. I'm sure you can pick one up for next to nothing now. They look great. I think you're making the right decision.

Also, I might suggest searching for a good switcher on CL also. I picked mine up for $15 bucks. It has space for 7 consoles, etc. It also has a remote to switch between the inputs and a programmable LCD screen that says what system you've switched to.

[teh_L0ki]

look in the basement or something for a two wheeled dolly or something to give you leverage. 103 lbs isnt thaaaat much. when i got my tv in 2004 i got it up and i was scrawny as all heck also. i was just determined to get that thing up stairs cause my old tv broke.

Right now I've got two different potential offers lined up for the same TV, the 27 inch SD Wega. I'm a little worried too because the only stand I have not in use is only 28 inches across while the TV is close to 31 :bawling:


ya know its funny i was at a super market that deals with bulk called BJ's (its like COSTCO) and i remember seeing a 20 dollar fold up dollie that folds up into the size of a brief case and can hold up to 180 pounds.. .not that helps your situation really lol

I'm basically going to see if either of the sellers are willing to help move it up the stairs for <$50 and if they aren't I may look at the dollie. The other problem is that I'm not totally financially independent because I'm living in my parents house while I finish up college and they can't understand why I would want an old SD CRT when I already have a HD plasma at my disposal.

[Darko]

While it's not ideal, you might look for a 20"-24" set for about $20-$30. You can still play the games you want without worrying about weight. I have a 20" Sony that I bought randomly one day and it actually got the job done really well. Buy something nice and big when you get a place of your own and have plenty of room for it. I have a 40-something inch Magnavox that would be awesome to play older games on...but it weighs at LEAST 150-200lbs. It's at my parent's house because there is NO WAY IN HELL that I'm going to move it until I find a place for it to sit for YEARS.

[teh_L0ki]

While it's not ideal, you might look for a 20"-24" set for about $20-$30. You can still play the games you want without worrying about weight. I have a 20" Sony that I bought randomly one day and it actually got the job done really well. Buy something nice and big when you get a place of your own and have plenty of room for it. I have a 40-something inch Magnavox that would be awesome to play older games on...but it weighs at LEAST 150-200lbs. It's at my parent's house because there is NO WAY IN HELL that I'm going to move it until I find a place for it to sit for YEARS.

The way you feel about the Magnavox is kind of the situation already with our 150 pound 36 inch HD Wega. My Dad's away on business right now but I know that when he gets back he's going to be pissed because he won't understand why I need another TV, combined with the fact it's another bulky thing taking up room (in his eyes). I plan on taking both when I move out permanently but I'll be hiring movers then.

[Ninjamohawk]

Any CRT with a bubbled-out screen should look accurate. I use a Sylvania TV from 1992. Looks superb.

[cynicalhat]

the base of the 27inch wega is only 26 inches wide(needed for it to sit on) and speaker to speaker its 30 and a quarter

[teh_L0ki]

Any CRT with a bubbled-out screen should look accurate. I use a Sylvania TV from 1992. Looks superb.

Do you mean a non-flat screen? The Wega I'm getting is flatscreen. The only downside I've heard about flatscreen tvs is that older light gun games do not work so well, however that is not of great concern to me. I would rather have better picture quality for the majority of my games and sacrifice the ability to duck hunt.


the base of the 27inch wega is only 26 inches wide(needed for it to sit on) and speaker to speaker its 30 and a quarter

Thanks for the information, that's really good to know. It should only be hanging off the back of the stand less than half an inch and if it's anything like my other Wega that won't be a problem.

The man I'm buying the TV from said he would drive it to my house and help me get it up the stairs for an extra $10 but I'm thinking of giving him a $20 instead for his efforts. It is a 20 minute drive after all.

[cynicalhat]

its only like 16-17 inches deep. but light gun games work as intended on this "flat screen" tv. they just dont work on lcds and plasmas.

[teh_L0ki]

its only like 16-17 inches deep. but light gun games work as intended on this "flat screen" tv. they just dont work on lcds and plasmas.

That's even better, thanks for the info again.

[cynicalhat]

you're welcome =)

[zaneiken]

Personally I would go with a newer flat CRT with S-Video and component inputs. Just make sure it isn't 100/120Hz otherwise light guns won't work.

[jordandavid]

I'm confused... there are several 32" SONY WEGA tvs on craigslist in my area, but everyone is talking about the 27", is the 27" the largest non-HD WEGA made?

[Darko]

I'm confused... there are several 32" SONY WEGA tvs on craigslist in my area, but everyone is talking about the 27", is the 27" the largest non-HD WEGA made?

No, they made a 32" as well.

[teh_L0ki]

I'm confused... there are several 32" SONY WEGA tvs on craigslist in my area, but everyone is talking about the 27", is the 27" the largest non-HD WEGA made?

The 32" is just too dang heavy.

[jordandavid]

I'm just really interested because I'm still gaming on like a 23" magnavox with no A/V or S-Video input, just cable. I'm sick of it, and there are several Sony WEGAs on craigslist in my area

Edited:

So the FD = non-HD?, I'm seriously puzzled

And I'm assuming the 27" is also recommended because it is the most manageable size/weight while retaining a large crisp picture?

[Darko]

so does the name "Trinitron" automatically denote the HD version or could it still be either?

I'm just really interested because I'm still gaming on like a 23" magnavox with no A/V or S-Video input, just cable. I'm sick of it, and there are several Sony WEGAs on craigsllist in my area

Edited:

So the FD = non-HD, I'm seriously puzzled

And I'm assuming the 27" is also recommended because it is the most manageable size/weight while retaining a large crisp picture?

I have the 27" because it's not too big and not too small. It's still heavy and awkward to move, but it's much easier than the larger sets. Mine is a Trinitron Wega. Trinitron refers to a technology used by Sony to produce a brighter picture. It doesn't have anything to do with HD. To my knowledge there is no 4:3 tube set that was ever made by Sony that is HD (above 480p that is). I could be wrong, but I've never heard of one. They did, of course, make several widescreen tube sets which I would not recommend using for playing older games.

In my opinion Sony produced some of the best tube TVs ever made in the late 90's and early 2000s. Mine is pushing 10 years old and has never had a single issue. Magnavox and Panasonic also made really great products around that time, but you're going to be hard-pressed to find one in the size/price range you're looking for.

[cynicalhat]

the 32' weighs like 300+ lbs. good luck finding a stand to put it on that wont crumble under the weight. the wega was a trinitron on crack, outstanding image quality. i do believe that sony made decent sized tube HD TVs, but again... the weight was ridiculous. CRTs produce the most accurate colors, and handle varying resolutions much better tan the stretching and pulling of todays LCDs.

[teh_L0ki]

the 32' weighs like 300+ lbs. good luck finding a stand to put it on that wont crumble under the weight. the wega was a trinitron on crack, outstanding image quality. i do believe that sony made decent sized tube HD TVs, but again... the weight was ridiculous. CRTs produce the most accurate colors, and handle varying resolutions much better tan the stretching and pulling of todays LCDs.

So I got my 27 inch now in the same room as my 32HD both Wegas :)

Downside is while the picture quality looks decent on the 27 inch, it's nowhere near as good as the 32HD because of scan lines. Maybe I'm just spoiled because I haven't used a SD CRT in about 8 years, but should the scanlines really be this prominent?

Oh and I almost dropped it trying to carry it in the house even though another guy was helping me. I take meds for my migraines and one of the side effects is muscle weakness so I'm still learning my limits. I felt totally fine carrying the tv one minute, but when I tried to step up to go inside I collapsed but managed to hold the TV from hitting the floor.

The nice gentleman who delivered the TV to my house also carried it up the stairs for me when I was unable so I tipped him an extra $15 over what we agreed. Currently I only own more modern systems such as the gamecube and when I tested the gamecube, while the image quality wasn't bad, once again I noticed very prominent scanlines. Is this normal behaviour? It looks better on my hd even upscaled as a result because on the 32HD Wega you can't even see the scanlines.

[JLukas]

Maybe I'm just spoiled because I haven't used a SD CRT in about 8 years, but should the scanlines really be this prominent?


Yes, the difference is very noticeable when compared side by side.

[Darko]

Yes, the difference is very noticeable when compared side by side.

I can second that. I have a 46" Plasma sitting right next to the 27" Wega.

[teh_L0ki]

Yes, the difference is very noticeable when compared side by side.

Well that sucks :(

I'm not sure if I should keep my gamecube on the old HD or the new SD. I never really noticed any input lag on the old HD anyway, but maybe that's just because I got used to it. Then again I'm very sensitive to input lag on a computer so I don't know.

However, I hooked up my ps2 to the SD TV and popped in dino crisis (a ps1) game and I don't know if it is just psychological and a placebo or not, but I thought it looked a hell of a lot better. I also noticed that I was able to corner and move my character with much more ease. The first time I played through that game on the HD I was constantly running into walls.

[cynicalhat]

Well that sucks :(

I'm not sure if I should keep my gamecube on the old HD or the new SD. I never really noticed any input lag on the old HD anyway, but maybe that's just because I got used to it. Then again I'm very sensitive to input lag on a computer so I don't know.

However, I hooked up my ps2 to the SD TV and popped in dino crisis (a ps1) game and I don't know if it is just psychological and a placebo or not, but I thought it looked a hell of a lot better. I also noticed that I was able to corner and move my character with much more ease. The first time I played through that game on the HD I was constantly running into walls.

That's good old crappy scaling, you can see it in action while watching a news ticker that's displayed in SD on an HD display. The words come in all slow and wide near the side and get skinny and faster as they approach the center of the screen.

[Ninjamohawk]

I really wish I still had our Trinitron from when I was a little kid. It was massive and heavy as all crock but man did it look gorgeous.

[teh_L0ki]

I really wish I still had our Trinitron from when I was a little kid. It was massive and heavy as all crock but man did it look gorgeous.

But the scanlines man... dem scanlines :(

Then again I've just checked tv on it and modern consoles not any oldschool consoles yet which is what I bought it for.

[Zoe F]

To my knowledge there is no 4:3 tube set that was ever made by Sony that is HD (above 480p that is). I could be wrong, but I've never heard of one.

Now I get to blow your mind by informing you of the Sony WEGA KV-40XBR800. It's a 4:3 set, displays at 1080i, and is 40". Unfortunately, a decent percentage of them broke within a few years, the TV didn't sell that well in the first place, it weighs over three hundred pounds, and you'll be shelling out hundreds of dollars for one if you can find it. Still, when it works, it's jaw dropping.

[teh_L0ki]

My question would now be... what's the difference between the various revisions of the kv-27fs*** I have a kv-27fs100. However on the website in addition to model 100 they list, 17, 13, 200, 120, 210, 12, 16, and 320.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCatalog?storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10551&in_dim_search=&keyword=kv-27fs&x=0&y=0

[cynicalhat]

a quick scan of the owners manual give these differences:

the 200's get 2 RF inputs on the rear while the 100's get only 1.
the 200's get picture in picture

The TV rear panels illustrated in this manual are for KV-27FS200, KV-32FS200 and KV-36FS200. The
KV-27FS100, KV-32FS100 and KV-36FS100; do not have the AUX input and TO CONVERTER output jack. (all referring to coax connections) i guess you could be playing 2 games picture in picture if you so chose.

the manual is here
(http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10551&langId=-1&productId=11039829#specifications)

[cynicalhat]

the smaller increments in models could be board revisions or regional differences or something.

[teh_L0ki]

a quick scan of the owners manual give these differences:

the 200's get 2 RF inputs on the rear while the 100's get only 1.
the 200's get picture in picture

The TV rear panels illustrated in this manual are for KV-27FS200, KV-32FS200 and KV-36FS200. The
KV-27FS100, KV-32FS100 and KV-36FS100; do not have the AUX input and TO CONVERTER output jack. (all referring to coax connections) i guess you could be playing 2 games picture in picture if you so chose.

the manual is here
(http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10551&langId=-1&productId=11039829#specifications)

Cool thanks for the input.


the smaller increments in models could be board revisions or regional differences or something.

I just don't want to suffer buyers remorse because I could have gotten a better version :puppydogeyes: I bought the 27 wega because I heard it was the best and now I'm going to be disappointed if I find out there is a better version. When I purchased the TV I had no idea there were 9 different revisions of the same television.

[cynicalhat]

i ave a 100 and it doesn't disappoint.

[teh_L0ki]

i ave a 100 and it doesn't disappoint.

Good to hear :)

Only downside with my set is that the front av hookups are kind of touchy. If you plug it in firm and leave it alone it's fine, but if anything even wiggles the cord the sound and video can fluctuate. I don't care though because I'll just use a splitter with the back hookup.

[Darko]

Now I get to blow your mind by informing you of the Sony WEGA KV-40XBR800. It's a 4:3 set, displays at 1080i, and is 40". Unfortunately, a decent percentage of them broke within a few years, the TV didn't sell that well in the first place, it weighs over three hundred pounds, and you'll be shelling out hundreds of dollars for one if you can find it. Still, when it works, it's jaw dropping.

Well you learn something new everyday I suppose. Glad to know they DO exist, and honestly, at 40", I'm glad I never bought one! I can't really think of one reason why I would need a 1080i tube set in the first place...

[teh_L0ki]

Well you learn something new everyday I suppose. Glad to know they DO exist, and honestly, at 40", I'm glad I never bought one! I can't really think of one reason why I would need a 1080i tube set in the first place...

But think of the 3 games or so that support it and how glorious they would look.

[teh_L0ki]

Edit:

Just to clarify I should be able to prominently notice the scanlines or is this a case where they are sticking out too much? Also I notice a slight shimmer around the borders of objects, would this be the jaggies I've heard about with CRTs or do I have a clunker on my hands?

[Darko]

But think of the 3 games or so that support it and how glorious they would look.

Exactly. I'll continue to think about them while I play my other 1,000 :)

[Darko]

Edit:

Just to clarify I should be able to prominently notice the scanlines or is this a case where they are sticking out too much? Also I notice a slight shimmer around the borders of objects, would this be the jaggies I've heard about with CRTs or do I have a clunker on my hands?

Can you upload a picture of what you're talking about?

[teh_L0ki]

Can you upload a picture of what you're talking about?

I'm having trouble getting my phone to cooperate and that's the only digital camera I have on hand right now. I don't think the picture would help anyway because it would just show a still image. Playing normal gamecube games it isn't so bad, it was just horrible on the gameboy player but that's probably more attributed to the massive upsizing that the image would have to go through.

However my vision is very acute so I can see the scanlines even from six feet away. I don't think they are excessive becuase it's common to see scanlines if you sit close enough on a SD CRT right? I also notice this slight shimmer to certain objects but I think it might be just becasue of the TVs refresh rate and me being sensitive to it, and not an actual defect.

I can sort of notice objects maybe... vibrate a little? But again it's very subtle and it's probably just normal operation of the tv as the image is redrawn by each sweep.

I'm just neurotic and have nothing to compare it to really becuase I haven't used a SD set in over 8 years as I said.

[Darko]

I'm having trouble getting my phone to cooperate and that's the only digital camera I have on hand right now. I don't think the picture would help anyway because it would just show a still image. Playing normal gamecube games it isn't so bad, it was just horrible on the gameboy player but that's probably more attributed to the massive upsizing that the image would have to go through.

However my vision is very acute so I can see the scanlines even from six feet away. I don't think they are excessive becuase it's common to see scanlines if you sit close enough on a SD CRT right? I also notice this slight shimmer to certain objects but I think it might be just becasue of the TVs refresh rate and me being sensitive to it, and not an actual defect.

I can sort of notice objects maybe... vibrate a little? But again it's very subtle and it's probably just normal operation of the tv as the image is redrawn by each sweep.

I'm just neurotic and have nothing to compare it to really becuase I haven't used a SD set in over 8 years as I said.

Are you seeing scan lines (moving across the screen) or the individual pixels? What cables are you using?

[teh_L0ki]

Are you seeing scan lines (moving across the screen) or the individual pixels? What cables are you using?

I'm seeing the scan lines, using AV red white yellows with a gamecube. Is this abnormal for this tv?

And around some text I see a swirly kind of effect... I think it's just the scanlines. My mom says it reminds her of neon lights and it has a kind of shimmer. I think it's normal though because I looked at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUZPex6Posk

and on it the scanlines are very prominent as well. So I think I'm just seeing the scanlines or weird interlacing artifacts as described by:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/video_signals.htm

[cynicalhat]

sounds like you have the CRT on torch mode. try lowering the brightness and what not. I use a program called display mate to calibrate mine. hook up a PC to the TV and run display mate. it really does make a big difference.

[teh_L0ki]

sounds like you have the CRT on torch mode. try lowering the brightness and what not. I use a program called display mate to calibrate mine. hook up a PC to the TV and run display mate. it really does make a big difference.

I'm planning to *ahem obtain one of those proffessional calibration dvds and put it through the works.

Oh and if anybody is interested the service mode code on the trinitron wegas is when the TV is off Display, 5, Volume +, On.

edit: while I'm convinced the scan lines are normal should I be notice weird kind of jaggies on borders of objects where it almost looks a little swirly? Is this just an effect of the technology or is it indicative of a problem?

edit: does anybody know the refresh rate on this TV, I've been searching and searching but cannot find it.

double edit: gamecube games look ok on it minus the shimmer thing I'm talking about (just on the edge of objects), but my gameboy player looks absolutely awful.

[cynicalhat]

I'm planning to *ahem obtain one of those proffessional calibration dvds and put it through the works.

Oh and if anybody is interested the service mode code on the trinitron wegas is when the TV is off Display, 5, Volume +, On.

edit: while I'm convinced the scan lines are normal should I be notice weird kind of jaggies on borders of objects where it almost looks a little swirly? Is this just an effect of the technology or is it indicative of a problem?

edit: does anybody know the refresh rate on this TV, I've been searching and searching but cannot find it.

double edit: gamecube games look ok on it minus the shimmer thing I'm talking about (just on the edge of objects), but my gameboy player looks absolutely awful.

wikipedia ad this to say about NTSC color

"NTSC color encoding is used with the system M television signal, which consists of 29.97 interlaced frames of video per second, or the nearly identical system J in Japan. Each frame consists of a total of 525 scanlines, of which 486 make up the visible raster. The remainder (the vertical blanking interval) are used for synchronization and vertical retrace. This blanking interval was originally designed to simply blank the receiver's CRT to allow for the simple analog circuits and slow vertical retrace of early TV receivers. However, some of these lines now can contain other data such as closed captioning and vertical interval timecode (VITC). In the complete raster (ignoring half-lines), the even-numbered or 'lower" scanlines (Every other line that would be even if counted in the video signal, e.g. {2,4,6,...,524}) are drawn in the first field, and the odd-numbered or "upper" (Every other line that would be odd if counted in the video signal, e.g. {1,3,5,...,525}) are drawn in the second field, to yield a flicker-free image at the field refresh frequency of approximately 59.94 Hertz (actually 60 Hz/1.001). For comparison, 576i systems such as PAL-B/G and SECAM uses 625 lines (576 visible), and so have a higher vertical resolution, but a lower temporal resolution of 25 frames or 50 fields per second."

read the rest of the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC for good times.

as for swirly's i have no idea what you are talking about and would love to see a picture of one of them in the wild =)

also try backing away from the TV another foot or so. TV have a larger spacing between the pixels as they are desgined to be viewed from afar. compared with a computer monitor that has a much tighter pixel spacing as it is designed to be viewed up closely.

*edit* you could also make the screen slightly blurry to make the scanlines less noticeable also.

[RP2A03]

The shimmer around the borders of objects sounds like "dot crawl" to me. This is normal for a composite connection and upgrading to an s-video connection should solve the problem.

[cynicalhat]

The shimmer around the borders of objects sounds like "dot crawl" to me. This is normal for a composite connection and upgrading to an s-video connection should solve the problem.

just wikipedia-ed that. kinda looks like the ps2 being hooked up to my big lcd with composite...... it was just .....garbage. the ps2 componenet cables helped, but not by much.

that being said my SNES and N64 are hooked up to the tv with s-video and i have no such issue.

my NES with composite doesn't exhibit it either. the cable he is using could be junk also. also he could be using ~ghasp~ RF

[teh_L0ki]

*snip

If it's 60hz I'm hoping it doesn't cause me problems because of my headaches. I can't use a CRT computer monitor at 60hz or the flicker just kills me. Although I will admit the TV does not look as flickery as a 60hz CRT monitor at least.


The shimmer around the borders of objects sounds like "dot crawl" to me. This is normal for a composite connection and upgrading to an s-video connection should solve the problem.

Thank you so very much. I read the Wikipedia article and it describes my problem perfectly. I'm confident now that my TV is fine, I'm just getting dot crawl and color bleed from the composite video.

As far as cabling goes I'm just using the standard composite cables that came with the gamecube. I have a bit of a problem because I have two gamecubes a dol-001 that supports component and a dol-101 which does not. The dol-001 is broken so I'm going to have to try and figure something out here. I may end up just paying nintendo to repair one.

I would just substitute with a wii but I'm planning to run the wii on a EDTV I own, and I still want to be able to use the gameboy player.

edit: I just realized I can use s-video cables out of the analog port.

[teh_L0ki]

Does anybody here have any recommendations for s-vdieo cables for my gamecube, and ps2? Also component cables for the xbox (the xbox is for another TV). It's basically impossible to find first party connectors so I was wondering if you know of any good third party cables.

The last thing I want is to make the situation worse, or introduce video lag. Getting away from video lag is why I bought this dang tv in the first place!

Edit I've always been sketched out by third party cables.

Will this work well or do you have any recommendations?

http://www.amazon.com/Gamecube-N64-S-Video-AV-Cable/dp/B00005RH4D/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1300553417&sr=1-1

edit: I'll just let this thread die since all my questions about the TV have been answered and I'll start another.

[teh_L0ki]

Running through s-video helped so much, completely eliminated the dot crawl. I still notice on very very small text though it isn't totally clear like the composite screenshot earlier in the thread. You can periodically notice an effect by staring at it which I think is some sort of artifact from the scanlines.

As I said I'm sensitive to this and haven't used non-progressive standard def in over 8 years.

What I'm seeing is had to desribe, it's almost like a black line periodically goes through which like I said is probably just the scanlines. But if it's not a small texture I don't notice a thing, it's only on really small text. Does everything sound normal for my wega?

[Dr. Dib]

[ignore this post. It appears an earlier thread about my questions was answered and I just didn't see it]

[jordandavid]

Looking on craigslist I found a 27" Sony Wega 2005 energy star model. Does anybody know if this model has any difference in picture quality compared to previous models?

[teh_L0ki]

Looking on craigslist I found a 27" Sony Wega 2005 energy star model. Does anybody know if this model has any difference in picture quality compared to previous models?

Ugh lately my TV has taken to doing this effect where the whole image will kind of shimmer or shake for about a minute and it has been doing it about once an hour. The effect lasts for about 10 seconds but I'm worried that it means it's dying.

[APE992]

Looking on craigslist I found a 27" Sony Wega 2005 energy star model. Does anybody know if this model has any difference in picture quality compared to previous models?

I had a similar model for many years. In terms of picture quality you truly got out what you put in honestly.

That said Laserdiscs looked pretty damned good on it.

[jordandavid]

Sooo it might be a little weaker or wear out more over time?? I'm just asking because I'm assuming the energy star model might be "underpowered" or what have you.

And thanks everybody for your patience in putting up with my annoying nit-picking questions. I'm just interested in investing (a mere ~$50) in the best retro gaming tv and some s-video cables once and for all to play my N64 and SNES at their absolute graphic peak. I'm not a graphics junkie, I would just like my games to look (and possibly sound) as good as they possibly can.

[teh_L0ki]

Sooo it might be a little weaker or wear out more over time?? I'm just asking because I'm assuming the energy star model might be "underpowered" or what have you.

And thanks everybody for your patience in putting up with my annoying nit-picking questions. I'm just interested in investing (a mere ~$50) in the best retro gaming tv and some s-video cables once and for all to play my N64 and SNES at their absolute graphic peak. I'm not a graphics junkie, I would just like my games to look (and possibly sound) as good as they possibly can.

I'm in the exact same boat.

[APE992]

It's my understanding that being of "Energy Star" compliance was far more a label to slap on the box to garner approval of economics and boastfulness. IIRC the specs the Energy Star people demanded could be manipulated in interesting ways somewhat like the marketing department does for computer monitors and TVs in general.

In all likely hood the fact it's an Energy Star complaint screen won't affect it's performance. For sound though I always recommend you use a separate stereo system, nothing ever sounds good built into a TV.

Now if you wanted to be REALLY anally retentive you could try to find one of the handful of SCART capable TVs in the US and RGB mod every console you have. There is a certain type of screen used in the broadcasting industry that readily accepts RGB but the name of it escapes me at the moment. Check out an arcade screen then go look at s-video or composite, you'll never look at screens quite the same way again and will forever have SCART envy.

[jordandavid]

Now if you wanted to be REALLY anally retentive you could try to find one of the handful of SCART capable TVs in the US and RGB mod every console you have. There is a certain type of screen used in the broadcasting industry that readily accepts RGB but the name of it escapes me at the moment. Check out an arcade screen then go look at s-video or composite, you'll never look at screens quite the same way again and will forever have SCART envy.

I've looked into RGB modding my 64, but it requires a specific model #, and I've looked into the results of some amateur RGB modding attemps and the majority seem to have some kind of dim screen/flashing problem or something.

Eh emm, I wrote that, googled RGB mod N64 really quick, and found this: http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/rgbn64.htm
Seems easy enough. Might try it some time if I get another 64.

[Leo_A]

Anyone have any opinions of Sony's KV-36FS100 Trinitron? Can get a 27" model for next to nothing as a backup. First possibly good deal I've seen around here for a while and that's about as heavy as I care to go.

[Niku-Sama]

they are ok, not the greatest, I feel that totally flat tubed CRTs don't look quite right, sony's older curved Trinitrons look better to me.
the model number you mention seems to be 36" but you say you don't want to go bigger than 27" so which is it?

http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-wega-kv-36fs100/specs/

[MutantKacheek]

My N64 Is Fine On My Living Room Samsung TV...