Why does MAME suck so bad? [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

stalepie

03-14-2011, 11:47 AM

Half of the games don't work, or have problems, or I have to download a different version of MAME, or an older version, or a different set of ROMs, or multiple copies of what seems to be the same ROM, or I have to configure each game separately, and so forth. I've never understood it. I know it's trying to emulate many different machines, and it's the work of many different people, but I'm convinced it's just a shitty emulator. I mean, look at that .exe file. It's like 40 megabytes.

So is there another emulator that's better for arcade stuff? I'm mainly interested in the 80s.

buzz_n64

03-14-2011, 11:59 AM

MAME is the best arcade emulator, especially for 80s arcade games. There are different versions of MAME that have varying degrees of simplicity, but they are all basically operate about the same. Maybe there's a way to transfer configuration files or something, but going through each game seems like the way to do it. Maybe with time you'll get adjusted to MAME; however, I was never happy about setting everything up.

stalepie

03-14-2011, 12:02 PM

Nah I've been using it for 10+ years and it hasn't gotten any better.

stalepie

03-14-2011, 12:07 PM

portnoyd

03-14-2011, 12:13 PM

It's taken 10 years for you to look for an alternative?

This thread is going places, I can tell.

stalepie

03-14-2011, 12:18 PM

It's not going anywhere. I just want to know why this emulator is so hard to use and is such a mess. So what is the better emulator?

stalepie

03-14-2011, 12:23 PM

Never mind. I'll just be happy with what i got. I don't care about most of those old arcade games anyway.

Enigmus

03-14-2011, 01:05 PM

To me, the interface is the main problem. The menu layout is hard to use compared to modern emulators, not to mention that updated menu systems would make the console ports less of a hassle. And, yes, I agree on mouse support, along with pausing emulation when the menu's opened. Also, not having the game attempt to fill an entire 1080p screen every time a game is opened would be a plus.

Still, it's been 10+ years, and now we're getting to talking about this? This should've been discussed three years ago.

Kitsune Sniper

03-14-2011, 01:15 PM

So I suppose hitting P to pause the game before going into the menu is too much trouble?

Having the game not fill the screen can be done with the proper ini configuration. Set the ini to Maximize 0, Window 1 and the game will start up at the lowest minimum resolution which you can then adjust to your own liking by resizing the window. (keepaspect 1 will help with scaling.)

Really, the emulator isn't that bad. I've been using it for ten years too, and I've never had any issues other than my computer sucking. The fact that they added a game selection screen on startup so people wouldn't have to deal with command lines to load a game should tell you something. And if it's too much trouble then just use a frontend or something.

Aussie2B

03-14-2011, 01:31 PM

Uh, it's free. And there are people who have put an immense amount of work into it. Sure, I have my issues with it too, but we're really in no place to complain. If you don't like it, don't use it. Otherwise, put up with it how it is and be grateful that it exists at all.

Zing

03-14-2011, 01:37 PM

I haven't had the problems you discuss. It's been about a year since I used MAME, but I was once a regular user. I kept a "complete" set until they started adding the CHD games, then I saw how pointless it was and only kept the games I enjoyed.

You don't need to constantly update MAME. So that should eliminate some of your problems.

It also sounds like your source for ROMs is pretty crappy. As I said, it's been a while, but I used usenet to get mine. Or a bittorrent package, properly labelled with its version.

As for needing to configure every game, this is not true in my experience. There is a global configuration, which can be accessed while in-game. It was rare that I had to tinker with the settings. Usually it would be for games with non-standard layouts like Mortal Kombat.

The official distribution is only 11MB in size. I seem to recall that they once used a compression method on the official binaries, so maybe a personally compiled binary would be 40MB.

dendawg

03-14-2011, 01:38 PM

Why does MAME suck so bad?

MAME doesn't suck...you suck.

Zing

03-14-2011, 01:45 PM

Why is it command-line? Command-line is worse. We've had mice since like 1985. Every other emulator has nice, easy-to-use menus, which you can also access during the game rather than trying to remember to hit the Tilde key to change the volume (wtf?!)

Menus are nice. Nesticle was DOS and that had a menu. It had mouse support. That was 1997.

Did you know that the year is 2011 right now?!?!

The people behind the project are a wild pack of engineers working on very intricate code in an attempt to emulate hundreds of different types and levels of hardware. Any GUI produced by them would likely look like shit.

Nesticle was DOS. Just DOS. Nothing else. That makes it pretty damn easy to code a native GUI. MAME is multiplatform. Unfortunately, one of the trade-off to cross-platform is difficulty in making a decent GUI. Cross-platform GUIs tend to look like pure ass and not conform to platform standards in usability or look.

MAME has well documented and complete support for front-ends. There are many out there for you to try. The easiest is probably "mameui".

staxx

03-14-2011, 01:56 PM

MAME is great, I can play classic arcade games and it brings back fond memories. Initially is was tough to use back in the day, but I find it pretty easy to use these days. I remember the MAME v34 days when it was all command line driven. I still use command line since it's mainly faster when I run a game that maxes out the comp. It's free so you really can't complain too much plus it is pretty complex. It's not the easiest emulator to use but not the toughest to use either. Try messing around with a Sharp X68000 emulator or WinUAE which I think are harder to use than MAME. The only thing with MAME is that with each release you have to update your rom set. Go to newsgroups for those.

JSoup

03-14-2011, 02:13 PM

I tried to use MAME once, back when I first got into emulation, but I could never get the thing to work right.

IronBuddha

03-14-2011, 02:16 PM

It sounds like you just need to read up and learn how it works. Not knowing the different ways you can make it run doesn't help. Look into front end programs (I use Mala) they make it much easier. All you do is enter the paths of where your emulator is and the roms and that's about it. There's a few other things to set up like button configuration. If you read up and learn how to configure everything it only takes a few minutes to get everything running.
In the beginning I thought the same thing, but once I learned how to use a frontend everything became simple. I turn on my computer, the frontend menu starts and all I have to do is select a game from the list and hit start and that's it.

Clownzilla

03-14-2011, 02:21 PM

Step back and put MAME in perspective. The fact that a single emulator can play games spanning several decades and several circuit boards is absolutely amazing. Sure, many games don't work BUT just as many games do. If interface issues are a problem try using a MAME rebuild like MAMEUIFX. You get a GUI interface up to the point of playing the game which is MUCH better than running everything via command line. In-game commands don't change but it doesn't take long to learn those. With a little homework I am now able to play APB with my digital game pad and Point Blank with my mouse. I'm now working on playing driving games with my Wiimote. The fact that you can do all this in MAME should result in encouraging the programmers and not yelling at them.

fishsandwich

03-14-2011, 02:49 PM

It also sounds like your source for ROMs is pretty crappy. As I said, it's been a while, but I used usenet to get mine. Or a bittorrent package, properly labelled with its version.

I just got into MAME about two weeks ago. I found a bittorrent and just downloaded the most popular version with matching ROMS.

It wasn't hard to install and I had it running in a few minutes. I don't know what I am doing so I have to set up the controllers for each game but otherwise it's great.

The vast majority of the games work. The interface is easy to use for even a moron like myself.

I have it running on a very basic and barebones netbook computer (one of those with the Atom processor, not much RAM, and a crappy GPU) and it runs everything pretty smoothly up until Model 1 and PSX-based arcade hardware.

Stalepie, maybe u you should just start over from scratch.

:)

jcalder8

03-14-2011, 03:22 PM

I just got my MAME machine up and running and I tried getting a version of mame and then downloading games for it. I found that it was not worth the hassle so I just did what Zing suggested and got a torrent with all the games. I then spent a few hours deleting games, mostly mahjong and any games that my computer wouldn't run.

After that I downloaded a free front end so that I wouldn't have to use the MAME interface any longer.

I love the setup I have going now.

Emuaust

03-14-2011, 04:05 PM

So using something like MAMEGui or MAME+ or the thousand other front ends out there is a no go?

I think my brain hurts more and more as of late...

Graham Mitchell

03-14-2011, 04:07 PM

MacMame is pretty awesome, actually. The only problem I have with it is the aforementioned romset compatibility issues. Because of this I have a couple different versions and I alternate between them depending on what game I want to play.

I've actually noticed that MAME is getting better. About half of the sounds from Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. were not emulated in prior versions but now are.

I remember there was a thread here linking to an article about a year ago where people were upset about some of the philosophy driving the MAME developers. Specifically, there was an update of MAME a couple years ago that eliminated the feature to save high scores. The developers justified this stating that this more accurately simulated the "real experience" of using the arcade hardware because all the high scores would reset when you unplugged the machine. It is kind of BS imo, but hell, they're providing me with hours of free entertainment, nostalgia, and enrichment of my knowledge about gaming, so I'm not going to complain too much.

This thread is starting to remind me of all the harsh criticism I'm reading levelled at the Angry Video Game Nerd, and how the "quality" of his "work" has "deteriorated" over the years.

Collector_Gaming

03-14-2011, 04:21 PM

i personally love mame.. playing classic games for hours on end for free = good times for me! I need to build a mame cabinet one of these days

i just downloaded a Lunar Lander Rom... such a fun game :D

Kitsune Sniper

03-14-2011, 04:34 PM

I remember there was a thread here linking to an article about a year ago where people were upset about some of the philosophy driving the MAME developers. Specifically, there was an update of MAME a couple years ago that eliminated the feature to save high scores. The developers justified this stating that this more accurately simulated the "real experience" of using the arcade hardware because all the high scores would reset when you unplugged the machine. It is kind of BS imo, but hell, they're providing me with hours of free entertainment, nostalgia, and enrichment of my knowledge about gaming, so I'm not going to complain too much.

There was another issue with high score saving - when you booted the game and MAME applied the high scores... it could interfere with the actual emulation and corrupt the game's memory, causing bugs that weren't in the original game.

Besides, a lot of games -do- save their high scores. And if it's that important to someone, well, just save a state before quitting. A lot of game drivers have had support for savestates added lately. ;)

Berserker

03-14-2011, 06:18 PM

I think the hardline stance on accuracy in emulation makes a lot more sense if you look at it from a long-term perspective. These games aren't going to last forever in their physical form. It's a race against time. Until it's perfect, making accuracy the primary focus is the right approach in my opinion. They can make it easier to use later.

InsaneDavid

03-14-2011, 06:53 PM

Try some frontends, find one you like, stick with it - easy as that. GameLauncher is my favorite although it's pretty old.

You have to remember MAME in its present form isn't there so you can play teh romz. It's meant to archive and document hardware and software that's disappearing or was missing / unknown to begin with. Yes, the trade off is you can use it to play games for free. It can also be used to troubleshoot and repair any arcade boards you may own.

If you're serious about playing games in MAME you get a MAME version and series of romsets that match and a frontend that you understand and stick with them until it becomes absolutely necessary to update. In my mini MAME cabinet I run MAME v0.60 and before that the Pole Position MAME conversion was running v0.56. Heck, v0.76 is what I run for just playing games since that was the last version I got a hardcopy of the full romset for.

There was another issue with high score saving - when you booted the game and MAME applied the high scores... it could interfere with the actual emulation and corrupt the game's memory, causing bugs that weren't in the original game.

Besides, a lot of games -do- save their high scores. And if it's that important to someone, well, just save a state before quitting. A lot of game drivers have had support for savestates added lately. ;)

Can't you just download and add highscore.dat to your MAME directory to provide that service? High score implementation in MAME has never been that solid so I've always used highscore.dat but it's possible that it doesn't work with the more recent builds.

http://highscore.mameworld.info/

Kitsune Sniper

03-14-2011, 07:23 PM

Can't you just download and add highscore.dat to your MAME directory to provide that service? High score implementation in MAME has never been that solid so I've always used highscore.dat but it's possible that it doesn't work with the more recent builds.

http://highscore.mameworld.info/

That IS what I was talking about. Support for it was removed in standard MAME because of the reasons I mentioned.

If the game originally saved high scores, though, you won't have any issues, MAME will save those just fine.

InsaneDavid

03-14-2011, 07:38 PM

That IS what I was talking about. Support for it was removed in standard MAME because of the reasons I mentioned.

If the game originally saved high scores, though, you won't have any issues, MAME will save those just fine.

Oh, alright. I've always had problems with the MAME high score stuff and used highscore.dat in its place. Since I don't use the newer builds though I'm out of touch with the current operations.

A couple years ago at California Extreme, Aaron Giles was showing an interesting trick that would actually show faux screen burn from another game (Pac-Man screen burn over Scramble for instance) for those who demanded arcade authenticity. LOL

rkotm

03-14-2011, 09:16 PM

Kitsune Sniper

03-14-2011, 09:29 PM

Griking

03-15-2011, 12:48 AM

Half of the games don't work, or have problems, or I have to download a different version of MAME, or an older version, or a different set of ROMs, or multiple copies of what seems to be the same ROM, or I have to configure each game separately, and so forth. The solution is to just stop downloading updated versions of mame. Just download it once, get all the games you're interested in playing and then just stop updating.

kedawa

03-15-2011, 06:19 AM

The best advice has already been given; find a version that plays what you want it to, get that ROM set, and stick with it until you need something newer.

I made the mistake of 'upgrading' my version of MacMAME and it's ROM set, making NeoGeo games unplayable slow and breaking some other games entirely. I was never able to track down my old version again, so that was the end of MAME for me on the G4 mac mini.

Currently, I'm using a version of MAME that can't play Bad Dudes properly because the button assignments are broken.

NE146

03-15-2011, 10:28 AM

Why is it command-line? Command-line is worse. We've had mice since like 1985. Every other emulator has nice, easy-to-use menus, which you can also access during the game rather than trying to remember to hit the Tilde key to change the volume (wtf?!)

To me, the interface is the main problem. The menu layout is hard to use compared to modern emulators

You guys have never heard of MameUI (http://www.mameui.info/)(Previously known as Mame32)? It's not even a frontend.. it's Mame, but with a gui. Do yourselves a favor and look it up if that's what you're looking for.

And by the way there's nothing wrong with command line. In many cases it's superior to a GUI (e.g. when working with a directory which contains 10's of thousands of files).. a gui would try and render a display list of every file which of course is absolutely useless.

mdk

03-15-2011, 11:40 AM

You guys have never heard of MameUI (http://www.mameui.info/)(Previously known as Mame32)? It's not even a frontend.. it's Mame, but with a gui. Do yourselves a favor and look it up if that's what you're looking for.

And by the way there's nothing wrong with command line. In many cases it's superior to a GUI (e.g. when working with a directory which contains 10's of thousands of files).. a gui would try and render a display list of every file which of course is absolutely useless.

Exactly. I'm not sure where are the hate and ignorance is coming from. I seriously think kids these days are too spoiled to figure out how something works. Settings up MAME properly should take you no more than 15-20 minutes and if you aren't comfortable with command-line there are probably about 200 different frontends you could try.

I've had MAME setup on 2 arcade cabinets and multiple times on many different PCs. I've never once had any major issues. Sure there are compatibility issues with some roms but overall it is an incredible piece of software.

stalepie

03-15-2011, 12:57 PM

(deleted)

stalepie

03-15-2011, 01:03 PM

(deleted)

stalepie

03-15-2011, 01:10 PM

(deleted - sorry)

Frankie_Says_Relax

03-15-2011, 01:43 PM

You guys have never heard of MameUI (http://www.mameui.info/)(Previously known as Mame32)? It's not even a frontend.. it's Mame, but with a gui. Do yourselves a favor and look it up if that's what you're looking for.

And by the way there's nothing wrong with command line. In many cases it's superior to a GUI (e.g. when working with a directory which contains 10's of thousands of files).. a gui would try and render a display list of every file which of course is absolutely useless.

Even in the case of directories that have 10,000 rom variations, Mame32/UI has plenty of filtering options that automatically diminish what results are displayed in the graphical interface.

OP - Command line or GUI version, Mame hardly sucks, it's just that it will always be imperfect by way of how much it does well across thousands of different games that were never designed to work in such an environment.

For everything it does well, I can completely tolerate any shortcomings, and there are umpteen versions that you can have running on any system simultaneously and pointing to the same rom directory ... so, if one flavor of MAME doesn't suit your fancy, get one or two that does what you need them to and boot them up as needed.

NE146

03-15-2011, 01:48 PM

Even in the case of directories that have 10,000 rom variations, Mame32/UI has plenty of filtering options that automatically diminish what results are displayed in the graphical interface.

Indeed. However I was talking in general about cmd line vs. gui.. not necessarily with mame and it's display of games :)

But yeah say you want to copy a single file from a directory that just happened to have 20,000+ tiny files in it. Windows sometimes chokes on trying to display stuff in there just to have you be able to highlight the thing, and ctrl-c it, or whatever. Or you could simply browse their via cmd line, copy the file and be done in 5 seconds.

stalepie

03-15-2011, 01:55 PM

Or you could simply browse their via cmd line, copy the file and be done in 5 seconds.

Except that browsing there takes longer than five seconds.

A combination of command line + gui would seem to be optimal, such as at the top of Windows Explorer, although for some reason this seems to never be done (don't remember seeing it in Linux Gnome/KDE).

I'm not *extremely* unhappy with MAME, I just want it to be easier to use for the newcomer. I'll address my concerns to the developers in email.

Frankie_Says_Relax

03-15-2011, 01:55 PM

Indeed. However I was talking in general about cmd line vs. gui.. not necessarily with mame and it's display of games :)

But yeah say you want to copy a single file from a directory that just happened to have 20,000+ tiny files in it. Windows sometimes chokes on trying to display stuff in there just to have you be able to highlight the thing, and ctrl-c it, or whatever. Or you could simply browse their via cmd line, copy the file and be done in 5 seconds.

Ah, I thought you were talking about the GUI Mames choking on displaying 10,000 roms.

Agreed on windows choking on displaying that many files in its own interface.

OP - As far as search options all GUI versions of MAME that I know of have file name search boxes, and they'll also "jump to" names in the romlist if you simply start typing letters even if you're not using the search box.

kupomogli

03-15-2011, 02:09 PM

MAME works fine. The only problem I've noticed when using the newest version was that it lists every game in the database rather than just the ones you have downloaded.

NE146

03-15-2011, 02:12 PM

Except that browsing there takes longer than five seconds.

Not sure why that would be... even with the longest paths and fudgey typing fingers, copy/paste works just fine.. Got a long path? Paste it in there and you're in there in less than a second :p e.g. cd d:\direct1\yabadaba\doo\1\yasa\hoohoo\vavoom

But yeah anyway.. if you're uncomfortable with cmd lines, then yes it might just be time consuming for someone. But the truth is it really is a lot more efficient for many types of file operations.

But then again there's a lot of situations where a GUI does work better. If you don't do a lot of work with files then it's probably all moot anyway. :p But it's just knowing what options are there for you. :)

stalepie

03-15-2011, 02:16 PM

stalepie

03-15-2011, 02:20 PM

Not sure why that would be... even with the longest paths and fudgey typing fingers, copy/paste works just fine.. Got a long path? Paste it in there and you're in there in less than a second :p e.g. cd d:\direct1\yabadaba\doo\1\yasa\hoohoo\vavoom

But yeah anyway.. if you're uncomfortable with cmd lines, then yes it might just be time consuming for someone. But the truth is it really is a lot more efficient for many types of file operations.

But then again there's a lot of situations where a GUI does work better. If you don't do a lot of work with files then it's probably all moot anyway. :p But it's just knowing what options are there for you. :)

You have to navigate to that long path first in order to copy it.

However one feature I'd like to see added to Windows/Mac/Linux, etc is the ability to double-click a directory part in a path to get to that part of the path. For instance, in this path on my computer:

C:\Documents and Settings\Matthew\My Documents\games 020211

I could click the word Matthew and it'd pull me back to the Matthew directory rather than hitting "up" over and over.

Frankie_Says_Relax

03-15-2011, 02:22 PM

MAME works fine. The only problem I've noticed when using the newest version was that it lists every game in the database rather than just the ones you have downloaded.

They all default to the master MAME romlist, if you want it to only list what you have on your HDD filter it to only list the roms in the rom directory its pointing to.

staxx

03-15-2011, 03:09 PM

My ass it works-when it wants to, provided you have the right image..But, if i wanna try NFL Blitz or something, it says its missing the proper chd or image files..Lots of games work for me, but a lot (mainly newer) games dont ever find any images, even if i have the official set.I know i wont get a reply, but what gives??

CHD files are large Hard Drive images or disk media images that are required to run games. For example Street Fighter III in the arcade used a GD rom and a motherboard containing the chip roms. In your NFL Blitz, you only have the roms (i.e. just the motherboard portion), you are going to need the NFL Blitz.CHD (not named that way, it's probably 478743.chd or some crap like that). Torrent MAME CHDs if you want to play the more recent games though a warning, it will most likely take up minimal 40 gigs for the CHDS if not more.

Kitsune Sniper

03-15-2011, 03:10 PM

Yeah, it's a good emulator. It doesn't have as many problems as I originally said.

I think they should compact romsets into a single file (i.e., .arc for arcade, like .nes, .pce, .smc, etc.), if that's possible, so that you can associate the file type with the program and just double-click it to make it to run, and they should maybe provide compatibility lists for romsets so that it's easier for ROM sites to know which versions to host. It seems like there's some confusion here.

They already compact romsets into a single file. It's called a zip archive.

And compatibility lists do exist. They're called MAME. The program allows people to extract the romset data and use them with frontends or rom managing tools to manage and play the games. Blame the morons that keep posting old romsets online instead of updating them like they should, it's their fault you have so much trouble finding "working" sets.

staxx

03-15-2011, 03:22 PM

They already compact romsets into a single file. It's called a zip archive.

And compatibility lists do exist. They're called MAME. The program allows people to extract the romset data and use them with frontends or rom managing tools to manage and play the games. Blame the morons that keep posting old romsets online instead of updating them like they should, it's their fault you have so much trouble finding "working" sets.

To add to the confusion is the parent and child rom sets. Use romcenter and the datfiles and you can have full merged sets (all rom files in both parent and child), split (parent zip file and child zip file must be in the same directory) and split merged (forgot what this one does)

Kitsune Sniper

03-15-2011, 04:13 PM

Keeping merged sets is a very bad idea.

Not only are some filenames on these sets the same, keeping them merged may make it a bit harder for you to update or fix your sets when you upgrade to a newer version of MAME.

InsaneDavid

03-15-2011, 09:22 PM

Front. Ends.

Seriously, if you spend a little time configuring everything, you're golden. Here's a couple shots of GameLauncher running in my cabinet, well, the first one was during construction so the monitor's not really "in" the cabinet...

http://www.classicplastic.net/digitalpress/special-galagamultigame-13.jpg

http://www.classicplastic.net/digitalpress/special-galagamultigame-17.jpg

RARusk

03-15-2011, 11:27 PM

CHD files are large Hard Drive images or disk media images that are required to run games. For example Street Fighter III in the arcade used a GD rom and a motherboard containing the chip roms. In your NFL Blitz, you only have the roms (i.e. just the motherboard portion), you are going to need the NFL Blitz.CHD (not named that way, it's probably 478743.chd or some crap like that). Torrent MAME CHDs if you want to play the more recent games though a warning, it will most likely take up minimal 40 gigs for the CHDS if not more.

And some of those CHDs are monsters. The CHDs for "Firefox" and "Mach 3" average 12GB each.

evildead2099

03-16-2011, 01:16 AM

MAME isn't perfect, but what do you expect of a freeware emulator (especially one that supports so many games running off different hardware)? My main complaint is that games which ran perfectly under old versions of MAME are very choppy when played under newer versions of MAME. The hardware requirements have jumped up tremendously, affecting games that previously never demanded such powerful hardware to run well.

NE146

03-16-2011, 09:36 AM

You have to navigate to that long path first in order to copy it.

However one feature I'd like to see added to Windows/Mac/Linux, etc is the ability to double-click a directory part in a path to get to that part of the path. For instance, in this path on my computer:

C:\Documents and Settings\Matthew\My Documents\games 020211

I could click the word Matthew and it'd pull me back to the Matthew directory rather than hitting "up" over and over.

I'm guessing you don't have Win7? In Windows 7 (and I think, Vista) that's exactly how it works.. you can just click on the "matthew" and it'll bring you right back there. You can also choose any subfolders from a dropdown.

That being said you don't ever have actually navigate to any path.. you can just start typing in the navigation bar (or in the Win7 start field) and auto-complete does a lot of the work for you.. you usually just have to type a letter or two. Then once the path is all complete you can cut/paste and shove it in a cmd prompt. It's actually a very fast process. :)

Back on subject.. I've completely ignored Mame CHD games. Too much space and really not worth the effort. I mean is there anything CHD related that works completely and is fun to play? Please someone tell me :p

stalepie

03-16-2011, 10:15 AM

sheath

03-16-2011, 11:04 AM

My biggest problem with MAME is that somehow people get the idea that the way Arcade games look, play, and sound in MAME is "perfect." I have had countless discussions with kiddos that think they have played the original Arcade version and found it better than a AAA console adaptation. There is no convincing somebody how great an adaptation like Strider on Genesis was when they grew up on N64 and can play the emulated Arcade game for free.

My experience was totally different. I played the Arcade game first at a grocery store with a 6x9 speaker five inches from my head. I bought the NES version first and then more than a couple of years later got to play it on my Genesis. Not only did the game seem roughly equivalent, it absolutely destroyed everything else available for home consoles at the time.

Anyway, one other problem. At 1080i on my HTPC + 40" LCD I can't read the game titles in any version of MAME.

staxx

03-16-2011, 11:07 AM

I'm guessing you don't have Win7? In Windows 7 (and I think, Vista) that's exactly how it works.. you can just click on the "matthew" and it'll bring you right back there. You can also choose any subfolders from a dropdown.

That being said you don't ever have actually navigate to any path.. you can just start typing in the navigation bar (or in the Win7 start field) and auto-complete does a lot of the work for you.. you usually just have to type a letter or two. Then once the path is all complete you can cut/paste and shove it in a cmd prompt. It's actually a very fast process. :)

Back on subject.. I've completely ignored Mame CHD games. Too much space and really not worth the effort. I mean is there anything CHD related that works completely and is fun to play? Please someone tell me :p

Killer Instinct (kinst.chd)
Killer Instinct 2 (kinst2.chd)
Street Fighter 3
Street Fighter 3 2nd Impact
Street Fighter 3 Third Strike
Area 51
To name a few

Kitsune Sniper

03-16-2011, 12:18 PM

Back on subject.. I've completely ignored Mame CHD games. Too much space and really not worth the effort. I mean is there anything CHD related that works completely and is fun to play? Please someone tell me :p

The older 5-key Beatmania games... several CPS3 games are also on CHD form.

HappehLemons

03-16-2011, 02:19 PM

I love when people complain about things they get for FREE.

Frankie_Says_Relax

03-16-2011, 02:39 PM

Killer Instinct (kinst.chd)

THIS

C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

Actually, it's the only CHD file I have, and was totally worth the minimal effort it took to get.

Clownzilla

03-16-2011, 04:59 PM

THIS

C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

Actually, it's the only CHD file I have, and was totally worth the minimal effort it took to get.

KI 2 and SF III are the only CHD files I have. They both run great and KI2 actually runs a little fast on a five year old computer. To those complaining about NFL Blitz........it just doesn't work properly yet. It's one of my all time arcade favorites and I have tried EVERYTHING to get this game to work.

Compute

03-17-2011, 08:46 AM

I played the Arcade game first at a grocery store with a 6x9 speaker five inches from my head. I bought the NES version first and then more than a couple of years later got to play it on my Genesis. Not only did the game seem roughly equivalent, it absolutely destroyed everything else available for home consoles at the time.

We keep mourning the loss of the arcades, but what about the loss of good arcade conversions? I recently played Gyruss for the 2600 for the first time. Maybe not the most accurate for graphics and sound, but the game play is great. I found it amazing that they could get the 2600 to handle all of that action at once. High Speed for the NES is a favorite of mine. Some day I will have my own High Speed pin, but I will probably still play the NES version for its "extra" play modes.

sniperCCJVQ

03-17-2011, 09:03 AM

I love when people complain about things they get for FREE.

and dont have clue on how to make it work rigth!

NE146

03-17-2011, 10:57 AM

My biggest problem with MAME is that somehow people get the idea that the way Arcade games look, play, and sound in MAME is "perfect."

Well the most undeniable instance where that could never be the case are games with physical attributes that just obviously can't be emulated. The most classic example I always give is good old Space Invaders. You can dress it up all you want on your monitor, but you can never get the full experience of the flourescent-lit CARDBOARD background and holographic reflection of the mirror onto the playfield, along with the bass & reverbation of the sound through the cabinet amongst many other tactile things.

It's basically Mame
http://www.users.uswest.net/%7Euserid946/invader/invaddlx-.jpg

vs... this

http://www.users.uswest.net/%7Euserid946/invader/inv_D_playfield.jpg

But yeah it is what it is. I still dig mame of course. :)

stalepie

03-17-2011, 12:08 PM

Well the most undeniable instance where that could never be the case are games with physical attributes that just obviously can't be emulated. The most classic example I always give is good old Space Invaders. You can dress it up all you want on your monitor, but you can never get the full experience of the flourescent-lit CARDBOARD background and holographic reflection of the mirror onto the playfield, along with the bass & reverbation of the sound through the cabinet amongst many other tactile things.

It's basically Mame
http://www.users.uswest.net/%7Euserid946/invader/invaddlx-.jpg

vs... this

http://www.users.uswest.net/%7Euserid946/invader/inv_D_playfield.jpg

But yeah it is what it is. I still dig mame of course. :)

That effect is cool and I've never seen this game in person, but why can't an emulator make it look more like the second pic (which I realize is a photograph)? I know it's not as good as seeing it in person, but it's obviously better than the first, and you're still seeing it on a computer screen. This means you could have similar optical effects and color-look when playing it in emulator.

Even some of the sound qualities (reverb) could be emulated. You could even have a module in MAME that includes surrounding sound effects and acoustics of various arcade rooms, so that you hear a bit of Gradius, Pac-Man and Robotron in the background as well.

tomaitheous

03-17-2011, 12:23 PM

Well the most undeniable instance where that could never be the case are games with physical attributes that just obviously can't be emulated. The most classic example I always give is good old Space Invaders. You can dress it up all you want on your monitor, but you can never get the full experience of the flourescent-lit CARDBOARD background and holographic reflection of the mirror onto the playfield, along with the bass & reverbation of the sound through the cabinet amongst many other tactile things.

It's basically Mame
http://www.users.uswest.net/%7Euserid946/invader/invaddlx-.jpg

vs... this

http://www.users.uswest.net/%7Euserid946/invader/inv_D_playfield.jpg

Bullshit. MAME support all sort of resolutions, refresh rates, control inputs, etc. You want that authentic Space Invaders onto a glass plate with a a cardboard cut out behind it, then you build it.

but why can't an emulator make it look more like the second pic (which I realize is a photograph)? I know it's not as good as seeing it in person, but it's obviously better than the first, and you're still seeing it on a computer screen. This means you could have similar optical effects and color-look when playing it in emulator.

You understand what optical effect of real depth it, right? I mean what you see with your eyes? How is MAME going to reproduce that effect on a simple monitor? MAME has support for the hardcore gamer who build such 'real' displays. If you're not hardcore enough, don't complain and just deal with it. Simple as that.

stalepie

03-17-2011, 12:29 PM

You understand what optical effect of real depth it, right? I mean what you see with your eyes? How is MAME going to reproduce that effect on a simple monitor?

I'm just talking about the way the photograph looks. If you can see that photograph on a computer screen, then you could have the emulated game look like that too.

Kitsune Sniper

03-17-2011, 12:29 PM

You understand what optical effect of real depth it, right? I mean what you see with your eyes? How is MAME going to reproduce that effect on a simple monitor? MAME has support for the hardcore gamer who build such 'real' displays. If you're not hardcore enough, don't complain and just deal with it. Simple as that.

I DO recall hearing about a MAME fork that simulated these sorts of displays to a larger extent that MAME does via filters. Stuff like the way the display sorta bends and curves around the edges on older, non-flat monitors?

This was a long time ago and I don't know if any fork of the emulator is doing that these days.

Edit: Also, MAME does support using screen overlays, like game instructions, around the video display area. It's not 100% perfect but it works.

stalepie

03-17-2011, 12:34 PM

Also with 3D screens maybe you could get a kind of optical depth effect.

NE146

03-17-2011, 12:34 PM

That effect is cool and I've never seen this game in person, but why can't an emulator make it look more like the second pic (which I realize is a photograph)? I know it's not as good as seeing it in person, but it's obviously better than the first, and you're still seeing it on a computer screen. This means you could have similar optical effects and color-look when playing it in emulator.

Look at the bottom of the picture there.. notice the inverted screen at the bottom? That's the actual monitor in the arcade version which is then reflected up with a mirror to produce the floating holographic effect of the invaders over the physical cardboard background. :) I mean there's just no way you're going to get something close to that artificially.. although I guess you could go out of your way to try and actually construct something to replicate that in some way but good luck on that. :p

I got another simple example as well.. Asteroids. You can try and try to duplicate the vector display on a modern computer system, but the actual "shots" themselves had a physically intense glow that's almost impossible to duplicate today on a modern non-vector display. Mame renders all the graphics in asteroids with the same intensity, and thus the shots come out as small pale pellets.

Asteroids in Mame (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZfsnA7dAHI) (you can barely see the shots)
Arcade Asteroids (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaM7kK5Toc) (shots glow out of the screen. i.e. not a redered glow.. but an actual physically bright glow from the vector beam)

Yes you can try and alter the game in mame to make the shots brighter in relation to the other parts of the game.. but think about it, what have you seen on your monitor at any time that actually physically is so bright it glows out your monitor like an LED light coming out? (e.g. putting your eye up close to it it's a bright light). Nothing really.. monitors these days are made so everything on screen is the same.

But anyway.. this isn't a knock on mame at all. It's just the obvious & inherent limitations of emulation itself. Arcade games (especially early ones) were dedicated machines and many had a lot of unique built in features. :)

NE146

03-17-2011, 12:37 PM

Bullshit. MAME support all sort of resolutions, refresh rates, control inputs, etc. You want that authentic Space Invaders onto a glass plate with a a cardboard cut out behind it, then you build it.

I think the difference is more the inverted monitor being reflected onto a mirror or if anything (not resolutions). I mean, feel free to build it if you want for that one single game.. but good luck with that. LOL

stalepie

03-17-2011, 12:50 PM

I got another simple example as well.. Asteroids. You can try and try to duplicate the vector display on a modern computer system, but the actual "shots" themselves had a physically intense glow that's almost impossible to duplicate today on a modern non-vector display.

I know, I've often complained about how old 16-bit games look on modern LCDs because they don't have that right "glow", which I assume is even worse with old vector games. But I saw a review of Spike for the Vectrex on YouTube and I felt I could appreciate SOME of its visual quality because he was showing the actual machine in action -- I know that's not the same as seeing it in person, but what I mean is it's like you showing photos of the real thing and screenshots, or this Youtube video of Asteroids - they're both being seen on my (and your) computer monitor which means it's being displayed by technology that could be used in the emulator to produce the same effect. Not the effect of seeing it in person, but still the effect of seeing a video/photograph of it on your monitor

Yes you can try and alter the game in mame to make the shots brighter in relation to the other parts of the game.. but think about it, what have you seen on your monitor at any time that actually physically is so bright it glows out your monitor like an LED light coming out? (e.g. putting your eye up close to it it's a bright light). Nothing really.. monitors these days are made so everything on screen is the same.

yes, except you still get some of that effect (don't you?) with the photograph/video or else you wouldn't have used them to compare and communicate what you're talking about.

Personally however I'm skeptical we can get good video effects like this done because in my experience things like scanlines and "TV mode" looks on emulators just suck. Well, suck is a harsh word, just like I used to describe MAME at the beginning of this thread, but I mean I'd rather have the scanlines and other effects turned off. I'm not sure why they don't look better than they do but I'm sure that with increasing technology there should be a way to mimic very closely the effect of seeing a video or photograph of a live game in action on the correct hardware .

NE146

03-17-2011, 12:59 PM

II know that's not the same as seeing it in person, but what I mean is it's like you showing photos of the real thing and screenshots, or this Youtube video of Asteroids - they're both being seen on my (and your) computer monitor which means it's being displayed by technology that could be used in the emulator to produce the same effect. Not the effect of seeing it in person, but still the effect of seeing a video/photograph of it on your monitor

Edit: Also, MAME does support using screen overlays, like game instructions, around the video display area. It's not 100% perfect but it works.

I think one of the best examples of maybe what you're talking about is Space Encounters. If you got it all tricked out in Mame with backgrounds, etc., it actually simulates the arcade games flashing lights whenever you shoot. It's actually pretty friggin awesome.

But again, of course it's just the limitation of emulation because the original had actual flashing light bulbs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jINxUVvVxnE), and how are you going to replicate that fully... Aside from a custom rig, you just can't. But again, it's sort of what you're probably looking for in that it's a simulated flashing on your computer screen to try and get it as close as possible. :)