Thoughts on collecting digital games?

[teh_L0ki]

I'll open by saying that I've made a similar post on a couple other forums but I was wondering what your opinions on this matter as this forum is populated by video game collectors.

I consider myself to be a pretty serious game collector in terms of both physical and now digital content. The move to a digital medium makes me a little queasy though, I'm spending hundreds of dollars on something I don't actually own (when you buy games on steam you aren't really buying them, you're renting a license that can be revoked at any time).

Yet every time steam has another sale I find myself saying "oooohhhh I want that." Meanwhile I haven't even played 1/10th of the games I own through steam, and it's not just steam. I've purchased from direct2drive, gog, and amazon digital. In the past I've collected digital cards in MODO/MTGO as well but have since sold them (because you're actually allowed to do that there).

But with steam there are more fundamental questions, that I think represent a paradigm shift in our society regarding property ownership. Allodial ownership (and yes I know this primarily relates to land) is pretty much nonextant. I feel like I'm just kind of riding the digital wave of the revolution. It's not like I can take my collection with me after I die anyway and I don't intend to have any kids to bequeath it to.

This type of discussion really leads to cardinal questions about human nature and why we feel compelled to hoard in the first place.

This is my steam calculator page:
http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/teh_L0ki

Regardless, I'm curious as to what your personal thoughts are regarding collecting digital games.

[Rickstilwell1]

Basically the way to go about collecting digital games is the same as it should be when collecting physical games - just collect the ones that you want to play. For me the best rule is not to get tempted to buy digital copies of games I already have in physical form unless it is something so addictive for me that the convenience of playing it on a Wii or PS3 outweighs the cost. (i.e. for me that would be the main Super Mario series). I also re-bought Suikoden as a digital download just to show continued support for the series.

I just HAD to be able to play Vandal Hearts: Flames of Judgement and Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1. The only way to get those was to do a digital download so I did. But when given the option I get physical copies.

[cynicalhat]

i think there is a place for both types of games. i mean i could emulate every old system out there, but i like having and playing the old games on their intended hardware. however add-on packs and extra maps and stuff i don't mind being able to download. it sure would suck to have to goto a Gamestop every time i want to get a new song for Rockband. even though they do sell track packs for Rockband, I'm left with the detritus they used to fill the disc up.

Independent developers don't really have the capital to ship games on discs so its easier to download them for both parties. Also i can be exposed to many more games tat i otherwise wouldn't have access to.

On modern full scale games i can pop in the disc and play. I don't have to authenticate anything other than the system its playing on. And lets say the companies that sold me the downloadable full game go under? What is going to happen to my ability to play said games?

[Richter Belmount]

Your mother

[teh_L0ki]

On modern full scale games i can pop in the disc and play. I don't have to authenticate anything other than the system its playing on. And lets say the companies that sold me the downloadable full game go under? What is going to happen to my ability to play said games?

That's always been my greatest fear with digital content, that you lose the collection you have built for reasons beyond your control when a company goes bankrupt. However the plus side is that unlike a physical collection somebody can't break into your house and steal it :)


Your mother
This response is both eloquent and mature.

[stalepie]

Well, software is just as physical as hardware, as carts and CDs. But with software when you try to give it to someone else (through a computer) or you try to sell it, you just make a copy of the files which is sent to them and the original files, or your files, still remain on your system.

I wish there was a way, at the operating system level, to have file transfer occur so that when you give something to someone else (say an MP3) it is removed from your drive as soon as the transaction is complete. There could be two different kinds of files: a master copy for sites like Amazon and iTunes (well, iTunes doesn't use MP3, but you know what I mean) for users to make their own copies from when the buy them, so that Amazon and Apple don't have to have millions of copies of the same song on their system... and the kind of protected DRM-type file that exists on the local drive, on your system, which, when transferred to someone else's computer has its original version deleted automatically -- I guess by the OS, or by a built in self-delete timer.

I don't think people would be very cool with that, though. I once emailed Richard Stallman this idea and he said it was just another form of DRM and therefore unethical.

But it would facilitate the buying and selling of used digital goods. Otherwise you have to have your files hosted by the parent company (like the TC's experience with Magic the Gathering Online?) and they really own it, and you are just accessing it, when you buy and sell your cards to other players.

[stalepie]

" Technically any transfer of cards in the game is not considered a "sale" because, for legal reasons, the digital objects are not actually owned by the collector, but rather Wizards of the Coast themselves."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Online#In-game_economy

[Swamperon]

I'm still stuck in the old 'collecting digital games isn't really collecting'. Which isn't true I just don't count them. I have several but don't add them to my total amount of games I own. Pass on why. Maybe because I equal them to roms (which they are) and no one puts any value on them.

Similarly I think a lot less value is put on digital games. For example, a second hand Wii will go for roughly the same price regardless of whether it has 10 download titles or none saved to it.

[teh_L0ki]

" Technically any transfer of cards in the game is not considered a "sale" because, for legal reasons, the digital objects are not actually owned by the collector, but rather Wizards of the Coast themselves."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Online#In-game_economy

What you say is true but the big difference between Magic the Gathering and a service like steam is that on MTGO you can still legally give your cards to somebody else in exchange for real money... at least as far as I know. It certainly happens and Wizards of the Coast doesn't do anything about it. The fact you don't actually own them is indeed still more than just semantics, but with steam it's against their terms of service to buy/sell/trade games. On steam if they see you attempting your account they can just lock it down removing your access from all the games you spent money for, and you have no recourse. That's what disturbs me about digital gaming. Otherwise I look at it just as legitimate as physical copies.

It boils down to the issue stalepie articulated. There is no good way to transfer ownership of most digital media unless it's controlled by a third party... and in that instance you don't really own it anyway.

[Fontaine Le Funk]

I think much of this uneasiness could be relieved by relative pricing. In a laissez-faire marketplace, value should be given for value. Physical copies of games should cost the most, followed by digital copies we are free to manipulate (transfer, copy, hack etc.), followed by content we can not control (MMOs, MTGO).

[SpaceHarrier]

I'm still at the point where I count my digital games separately from my physical games. I wouldn't by any means consider 'collecting' digital downloads. I simply purchase what absolutely compels me, and only in the quantities that I think, "If I were to lose everything, all hundreds of $$ I've spent on digital games, could I live with that?"

So it's more of a threshold of total dollars invested on any given device that's limiting my continued 'collecting'.

I'm not, however, opposed to digital downloads; the world is filled with enough plastic stuff anyway. I wonder if my hoarding is a result of my upbringing. It will be interesting to see how or if a transition to all digital distribution takes place, and the implications on the generation growing up with this setup. Will games be completely disposable? Will entire generations of software be lost to hardware transition or revoked licenses? Have we had this conversation before??

[Guru of Time and Space]

More digital, less physical.
Plastic sucks, it puts a huge strain on the Earth, so why use it when it's not needed?

-GoTaS

[tpugmire]

The only thing that scares me about digital, is what happens when the console stops working. With physical media, if your console breaks, you just get another and all the games will still work. That is the one reason that I haven't gotten into it yet.

[Griking]

Basically the way to go about collecting digital games is the same as it should be when collecting physical games - just collect the ones that you want to play. This is pretty much it. I think that people sometimes forget why they started collecting games in the first place.

[Zthun]

This is pretty much it. I think that people sometimes forget why they started collecting games in the first place.

No. That's all I'm going to say.

[Richter Belmount]

More digital, less physical.
Plastic sucks, it puts a huge strain on the Earth, so why use it when it's not needed?

-GoTaS

Your a retard , wait till your drm kicks in the new age.

[Berserker]

Your a retard

Yeah... that's too far. Dial it back a bit, please.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I think much of this uneasiness could be relieved by relative pricing. In a laissez-faire marketplace, value should be given for value. Physical copies of games should cost the most, followed by digital copies we are free to manipulate (transfer, copy, hack etc.), followed by content we can not control (MMOs, MTGO).

I'd agree, but what we have now is an inverted pyramid. You can't get a more distorted market, and resources are wasted because of the distortions not because some people choose to buy physical copies. I am invested in a physical commodity, and it is traded in paper form on the commodities exchange. But those in the know truly understand that you can't have 100% confidence in owning something unless you can put your hands on it.

[dnehthend]

not a fan

I paid to download some Tapwave Zodiac games back in the day... now I have nothing

[jordandavid]

Your a retard , wait till your drm kicks in the new age.

no, "your" a retard! LOL

[buzz_n64]

Collecting digital games? Buddy, that's the end of collecting as we know it.

You can't display or show off your collection.
No packaging, printed artwork, anything collectible. Bye bye Limited Editions.
No re-sale, and difficult to transfer to other systems.
Can't buy it used. Fixed price set out of anyone's control. Once it's taken off the marketplace, it's gone.
If the game requires you to play by being connected to a server, and the server goes down or is shutdown, you're screwed.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Collecting digital games? Buddy, that's the end of collecting as we know it.

You can't display or show off your collection.
No packaging, printed artwork, anything collectible. Bye bye Limited Editions.
No re-sale, and difficult to transfer to other systems.
Can't buy it used. Fixed price set out of anyone's control. Once it's taken off the marketplace, it's gone.
If the game requires you to play by being connected to a server, and the server goes down or is shutdown, you're screwed.

This, more or less, is why I hesitate to buy a modern gaming console. There are quite a few games on the XBox marketplace that I would LOVE to get, but that have been removed for several reasons (the license expired, the publisher went bankrupt, etc.). And don't forget about DLC content that's no longer available for that Marvel game. I think the modern systems are great, but that uncertainty just bothers me quite a bit.

I "own" quite a few digital games on PC. Will they be available to me forever? Maybe not. But by the time that happens, I'll probably be done with the games anyway.

Yes it sucks that you can't display your games. Oh well. That's life. :(

[Swamperon]

Collecting digital games? Buddy, that's the end of collecting as we know it.

You can't display or show off your collection.
No packaging, printed artwork, anything collectible. Bye bye Limited Editions.
No re-sale, and difficult to transfer to other systems.
Can't buy it used. Fixed price set out of anyone's control. Once it's taken off the marketplace, it's gone.
If the game requires you to play by being connected to a server, and the server goes down or is shutdown, you're screwed.

Exactly. You're effectively collecting temporary licenses to play games. Not really a collectible item that's going to attract a lot of fans.

[staxx]

But how am I going to grade my Digital Games, or sell them on ebay?

Digital IPhone Game - Angry Birds in Mint condition, like new, rarely played you will not be disappointed, BUT IT NOW $100

Though I must admit that collecting Digital Games, I can vastly improve my shelve space.

[Cornelius]

For me the collecting aspect has a lot to do with the hunt and the gratification I get when I find something I need for my collection. Part of this is that I'm cheap, so I have to search instead of just plop the money down. With digital games there is no hunt at all. You either buy it at the listed price or you don't. I suppose you can watch for sales, but checking the PSN sale page every week hardly excites me.

Another way I look at it; sure I can download a complete rom collection for the NES and have the complete set. Yay. I imagine in not so many years the same will be true of the PSP library (both digital and physical). So what then is the point unless you have the physical item? In those few years there will be no difference between your collection and the 10 yr old down the street that just downloaded teh r0mz!

I'm not really opposed to digital distribution in general, I just would never bother collecting that way.

[Rev. Link]

I made a thread similar to this a couple years back. As I recall it got somewhat heated.

In my thread I posed the question of whether or not it is okay to count digital-only games in your collection. That is, should I lump in my XBLA and WiiWare games with my grand total of games owned? I see a lot of the same arguments here that I did there.

No, there's nothing to display. No, I can't resell them or let a friend borrow them. Yes, if for whatever reason they become unavailable and I lose my copy somehow I can't replace them. I understand all of this. But I still count my digital games because 1) I can turn my system on and play them any time I want, just like my physical games, and 2) They are official releases licensed by the game companies. That's the important one.

When I see someone argue that they are no different from ROMs, that I might as well just download a whole set of NES games and say I have them all, they're missing the point entirely. You don't buy a ROM. It is not a legal copy of the game. You do buy the WiiWare version of SMB, licensed by Nintendo and for sale through them. It is an official product. It's not just some pirate copy.

You're paying for the right to play those games on those systems, be it XBLA, WiiWare, PSN, or PC downloading services like Steam. So in my collection database I do count my downloaded games, and I give them their own section. I have 90 Xbox 360 games and around 40 XBLA games. And when the day comes that my hard drive dies and I lose those games, and they're not available for download anymore, then I will remove them from my collection database. I know that's going to happen eventually, that's just the way it is. Just like if one of my disc based games gets damaged beyond repair, and I can't replace it right away because it's hard to find or expensive, then I'll have to remove it as well.

[Fontaine Le Funk]

You're paying for the right to play those games on those systems, be it XBLA, WiiWare, PSN, or PC downloading services like Steam. ... And when the day comes that my hard drive dies and I lose those games, and they're not available for download anymore, then I will remove them from my collection database.

Hard drive platters retain data after most failures, so game recovery is totally possible. But more importantly, aren't 360s and PS3s easy to back-up? Data loss shouldn't be much of a problem..

[teh_L0ki]

I've read through the posts in this thread but instead of replying to each one individually I'll just clarify my own personal thoughts a bit more on digital collecting. I don't collect with the intent of accruing value or selling at a later date, nor do I collect soley to show off my collection. While this may sound insulting I find it narcasistic that many collectors largely seem to be unable to reap satisfaction in their own collections without showing it off to somebody else.

I simply get pleasure from the mere act of collecting, not so much from the collection itself. However I do enjoy the collection because for me it represents many potential games to play if I am so inclined. I don't look at it as collecting 1s and 0s or roms, as was mentioned in the thread, what I am collecting are legal licences to play games. So in essence I'm collecting something a bit different than the majority of users on this forum, and certainly something with less potential to show off.

However I am still interested in collecting physical games, but when it comes to new games that have an option between physical boxed copies and digital copies I usually just opt for digital. I reserve my physical games for the retro systems I intend to aquire and used to own.

Besides, one great perk of digital games is that your collection can't be stolen, nor can it be damaged by natural disasters and the like.

[buzz_n64]

Besides, one great perk of digital games is that your collection can't be stolen, nor can it be damaged by natural disasters and the like.

Umm... They can still steal your system or PC you know. Burglars go straight for these first, not the games. As with natural disasters, maybe some games might survive, but if it's all on one hard drive, and that gets messed up somehow, all is lost.

[teh_L0ki]

Umm... They can still steal your system or PC you know. Burglars go straight for these first, not the games. As with natural disasters, maybe some games might survive, but if it's all on one hard drive, and that gets messed up somehow, all is lost.

Not to be rude but you seem to be very ill informed when it comes to digital games. There isn't a single service I've bought a digital game from that won't let me download the game again an infinite number of times to an infinite number of computers. If my computer gets stolen I just buy another computer and re download all my games. HDD damage is completely irrelevant.

[buzz_n64]

Not to be rude but you seem to be very ill informed when it comes to digital games. There isn't a single service I've bought a digital game from that won't let me download the game again an infinite number of times to an infinite number of computers. If my computer gets stolen I just buy another computer and re download all my games. HDD damage is completely irrelevant.

Okay, maybe I'm partially uninformed then, as I don't use any type of PC download service, only console. With console, you are sometimes able to transfer the licenses over, but if the game is still running on the stolen machine (no longer online perhaps) a conflict with PSN/Wiiware/XBLN may ensue.

[BydoEmpire]

Digital Collecting = what's the point? Nothing to look at, nothing to display, and everything you have can be perfectly and easily duplicated at no cost. You don't own anything of finite quantity. Just my 2c, if you enjoy collecting digital games then more power to you.

[Berserker]

Digital Collecting = what's the point? Nothing to look at, nothing to display, and everything you have can be perfectly and easily duplicated at no cost. You don't own anything of finite quantity. Just my 2c, if you enjoy collecting digital games then more power to you.

What about just plain old nostalgia, and preservation?

For example, a few years back I took an installation of Ultimate DOOM that came from an encrypted "id Store" that was on my Heretic CD (I actually called the number and paid for it, back in the day) and, through a series of downgrades and patches, managed to recreate almost every version of DOOM released. Now, since I don't own these in physical form (though I'd like to rectify that at some point), these could be considered part of a digital collection.

Why did I do it? Growing up, I encountered several different versions of the game. I remembered some of the minor differences between some of them, and I wanted the ability to revisit those. The different colored loading screens, the original title screen, the different sounding intro music... there's also the "Swastika room" (http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Easter_egg#Swastika) that was removed in later versions, but I didn't really care much about that beyond confirming that I wasn't crazy in remembering having seen it as a kid.

And there's also the preservation aspect. Before it became available on Steam, it was nearly impossible to find ANY fully intact version of DOOM. Pirate and abandonware sites almost always just had a zip full of .wad files, with the assumption being that you'd want to use source ports, which don't reproduce many of the peculiarities between the different versions.

So, while I don't consider myself to be a "digital collector", there are certainly reasons why one would want to collect games they don't own in physical form, this being only one example.

[teh_L0ki]

Digital Collecting = what's the point? Nothing to look at, nothing to display, and everything you have can be perfectly and easily duplicated at no cost. You don't own anything of finite quantity. Just my 2c, if you enjoy collecting digital games then more power to you.

Again, we collect for different reasons. I do not display my collection to anyone publicly in person, and if I do want to brag on the internet I find it just as easy to link them to my steam or gamespot profile; it's even easier than taking pictures of a physical collection.

I understand that for a lot of people if you don't have that tangible item in your hands it seems illusory. But everything in this world is really transient and value doesn't always hold a physical form.

Besides with the amount of copyright protection on games nowadays, and cd key activations and the like, you can't just duplicate easily. You have to resort to cracks which in many cases impact game performance (albeit I know there are plenty, possibly more cases where game performance is not impacted). That said, I like to stay on the right side of the law... at least when it comes to collecting games.

I've been known to be a little more unscrupulous when it comes to music... but in the case of music you can just make perfect duplications at no cost... with games you cannot because of the DRM and keys.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Not to be rude but you seem to be very ill informed when it comes to digital games. There isn't a single service I've bought a digital game from that won't let me download the game again an infinite number of times to an infinite number of computers. If my computer gets stolen I just buy another computer and re download all my games. HDD damage is completely irrelevant.

Unless it's something that only has a finite amount of installations, in which case you're screwed.

Fuck you soooooooooo much, EA.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Playing classic games on original hardware is not really a common thing though. Those who stomp around here have a warped sense in that regard (that includes me, I'm not calling anyone out LOL). It's a luxury and a bit frivolous when approached with a bit of objectivity. Have I woke up and found myself wondering why the hell I have boxes of old plastic electronics all over my backroom? You bet I have, and it happens more frequently than I would care to admit... Then I play on one of those old plastic boxes for a while, and it suddenly comes back, "Oh yeah! That's why..."

There is a line. I've stated this before, but it bears a repeat;
Digital is nothing like physical. It's not worse, or better. Just different. Digital has many more advantages than drawbacks, even some really attractive ones over physical (as the drawbacks usually apply to both), and all the BS the pubs and devs work in will be broken and cast aside given time.

Digital and physical are meeting and merging in the free market on the internet. Through the 'official channels' via PSN, XBLA, Wii/DSiWare... And in the gray market through PowerPaks, Everdrives, R4s, WiiHDD loaders. Who is going to be the Radiohead of Gaming? That's what I want to know. Who in the industry has the vision and the balls? None so far... Some indies get dangerously close, but it's still small in scale.

Given that, the game industry has to be very careful venturing forth into the digital range. Mostly because they are treating digital much in the same way as physical, and that approach will not bear out for long with their customers. It's new, and people are following habit mostly, but eventually those folks will put 1 and 1 together and feel cheated out of something. Resentment is death in commerce; see 1983, RIAA v Napster etc. for details.

[tubeway]

While this may sound insulting I find it narcasistic that many collectors largely seem to be unable to reap satisfaction in their own collections without showing it off to somebody else.


Sometimes, from all of the socially retarded neckbeard game collectors I see on Youtube, I think some people just don't have anything else going on in their life to take pride in. They want to be admired for shelves full of games they've hoarded, which is why the material aspect of the games is so important to them and playing them takes a backseat. I can't imagine how destructive to their identity it must be if they're forced to sell their collection or their house catches fire.

[BydoEmpire]

Again, we collect for different reasons. I do not display my collection to anyone publicly in personFWIW, I don't show my physical collection to anyone publicly or in person, either, and have no desire to. I just like seeing the games in the drawer or on the shelf. It's something I enjoy for myself. But yeah, there are plenty of different reasons people collect games.

[FxMercenary]

Ok hear me out on this one.

My biggest fear with buying digital games on say, the 360, is this... What happens when the service shuts down in say 5 or 10 years? Turtles in Time Arcade for example: What will happen to all the digital games I purchased on it if I have to reformat? or if the Hard Drive Dies? How will I re-download them? How can I verify I am the original owner if just the Console dies, and I pop the old HDD on the new 360?

Same goes for the PS3.

What if the Original X-box had Downloadable Arcade games? How would you get them back if ur console died 3 years from now?

[teh_L0ki]

Ok hear me out on this one.

My biggest fear with buying digital games on say, the 360, is this... What happens when the service shuts down in say 5 or 10 years? Turtles in Time Arcade for example: What will happen to all the digital games I purchased on it if I have to reformat? or if the Hard Drive Dies? How will I re-download them? How can I verify I am the original owner if just the Console dies, and I pop the old HDD on the new 360?

Same goes for the PS3.

What if the Original X-box had Downloadable Arcade games? How would you get them back if ur console died 3 years from now?

When I made this thread I wasn't even thinking about console download games. I hate console download games and think they are bs and would never consider collecting them personally and I consider myself a digital collector. I was referring to things like steam, with a console game once it's gone it's ridiculously hard to get it again and that indeed is awful.

[Bojay1997]

I made a thread similar to this a couple years back. As I recall it got somewhat heated.

In my thread I posed the question of whether or not it is okay to count digital-only games in your collection. That is, should I lump in my XBLA and WiiWare games with my grand total of games owned? I see a lot of the same arguments here that I did there.

No, there's nothing to display. No, I can't resell them or let a friend borrow them. Yes, if for whatever reason they become unavailable and I lose my copy somehow I can't replace them. I understand all of this. But I still count my digital games because 1) I can turn my system on and play them any time I want, just like my physical games, and 2) They are official releases licensed by the game companies. That's the important one.

When I see someone argue that they are no different from ROMs, that I might as well just download a whole set of NES games and say I have them all, they're missing the point entirely. You don't buy a ROM. It is not a legal copy of the game. You do buy the WiiWare version of SMB, licensed by Nintendo and for sale through them. It is an official product. It's not just some pirate copy.

You're paying for the right to play those games on those systems, be it XBLA, WiiWare, PSN, or PC downloading services like Steam. So in my collection database I do count my downloaded games, and I give them their own section. I have 90 Xbox 360 games and around 40 XBLA games. And when the day comes that my hard drive dies and I lose those games, and they're not available for download anymore, then I will remove them from my collection database. I know that's going to happen eventually, that's just the way it is. Just like if one of my disc based games gets damaged beyond repair, and I can't replace it right away because it's hard to find or expensive, then I'll have to remove it as well.

I guess I still don't understand why it's so important to you that you "count" digital games or don't count them. Since you can't sell them and you don't need additional physical space to store them and they have no actual resale value and you don't need to keep them clean or maintained or really do anything but play them, what does it matter if you have five or a million of them? Those games are part of your library, but I can't see how they could be considered a "collection" any more than browser versions of arcade games would be counted in your arcade collection or MP3s of vinyl albums would be counted in your record collection. Yes, it shares the basic media elements of a video game and it can generate that enjoyment experience, but I just don't think most people would agree that you can have a collection of items which can't be sold or handled in some physical way.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I guess I still don't understand why it's so important to you that you "count" digital games or don't count them. Since you can't sell them and you don't need additional physical space to store them and they have no actual resale value and you don't need to keep them clean or maintained or really do anything but play them, what does it matter if you have five or a million of them? Those games are part of your library, but I can't see how they could be considered a "collection" any more than browser versions of arcade games would be counted in your arcade collection or MP3s of vinyl albums would be counted in your record collection. Yes, it shares the basic media elements of a video game and it can generate that enjoyment experience, but I just don't think most people would agree that you can have a collection of items which can't be sold or handled in some physical way.

... So why does an item have to be RESELLABLE to be considered COLLECTIBLE?

WHO. THE FUCK. CARES. IF YOU CAN RESELL IT?! I sure as hell don't. My digital game collection is mine and mine alone, I don't give a damn if anyone can't admire it on a shelf, I care because it's MINE AND THAT'S IT.

You don't collect stuff for financial reasons. YOU COLLECT STUFF BECAUSE YOU LIKE THE STUFF. Like the guy who collects bottlecaps, or AOL CDs, or rare paintings, or all of a certain actor's movies, or Criterion DVDs, or all of an artist's live bootleg concerts (on FLAC or MP3!)

We don't collect this stuff for the money.

[FxMercenary]

... So why does an item have to be RESELLABLE to be considered COLLECTIBLE?

WHO. THE FUCK. CARES. IF YOU CAN RESELL IT?! I sure as hell don't.

You don't collect stuff for financial reasons. YOU COLLECT STUFF BECAUSE YOU LIKE THE STUFF. Like the guy who collects bottlecaps, or AOL CDs, or rare paintings, or all of a certain actor's movies, or Criterion DVDs, or all of an artist's live bootleg concerts.

We don't collect this stuff for the money.

I hope you are trolling Kitsune...

Collectible:

collectibles - Physical objects found in limited supply that provide esthetic, psychological, or practical value to the owner. They are expected to appreciate as a result of inflation or through increased recognition of their rarity.

collectibility - Refers to the funding source's ability to collect future income stream payments once they are purchased.

Actually, if you do not collect for a physical sense of enjoyment and accomplishment, and a possible future financial gain, then you are not collecting, you are either a Hoarder or someone who gets a chemical high by spending money.

Value will ALWAYS be associated with collecting, unless of course you amount large piles of toe nail clippings and bottles of urine. If you do that, check yourself into a mental hospital.

You may have a Digital Game "Collection" but there is no collectibility in that collection. Only Physical Games are Collectible.


I made a thread similar to this a couple years back. As I recall it got somewhat heated.

In my thread I posed the question of whether or not it is okay to count digital-only games in your collection. That is, should I lump in my XBLA and WiiWare games with my grand total of games owned?

Yes, you can, They are part of your "Game Collection", but they are not considered Collectible.

[stalepie]

::throws out old jar of toe clippings::

[Kitsune Sniper]

I'm not (edit: not trolling, stalepie's reply got in the way of this post!)

However, I buy digital games because I play the games. I don't get a chemical high from buying an item and then encasing it in a slab of plastic and putting it on a pedestal. And I sure as hell don't consider my personal collection, physical or not, regardless of the category of items (DVDs, VHS, CDs, comics, physical games) to be something to be profited from in the future (though I HAVE had to sell parts of it to fund computer or home repairs.) Remember comics in the 90's, with the holofoils and shiny limited editions? Look at all the people who bought up those comics expecting them to be worth money in the future.

I don't put the "value" of an item first and foremost when I buy it for myself. Look at all the CDs I own. They're not worth a dime each. I still like them because I enjoy listening to music.

[Rev. Link]

... So why does an item have to be RESELLABLE to be considered COLLECTIBLE?

WHO. THE FUCK. CARES. IF YOU CAN RESELL IT?! I sure as hell don't. My digital game collection is mine and mine alone, I don't give a damn if anyone can't admire it on a shelf, I care because it's MINE AND THAT'S IT.

You don't collect stuff for financial reasons. YOU COLLECT STUFF BECAUSE YOU LIKE THE STUFF. Like the guy who collects bottlecaps, or AOL CDs, or rare paintings, or all of a certain actor's movies, or Criterion DVDs, or all of an artist's live bootleg concerts (on FLAC or MP3!)

We don't collect this stuff for the money.

This.

I don't have any plan to ever sell any of my games, so does that mean I don't have a collection at all?

I count my digital games because I like to keep track of how many games I own, no matter what format they are, and EULAs be damned. If you handle your collection differently, that's totally cool, it seems like most collectors have their own little ways of doing things.

[tubeway]

There is an infinite number of digital downloads available for x product.

Count them all you want. Include them in your "collection," who gives a crap. It doesn't make them a collectable though in the purest sense of the word.

If that reality somehow irks you then you have bigger issues.

[Rev. Link]

I don't give a shit if they're "collectible" or "worth anything" or not.

I don't collect cartridges or discs, I collect games.

[Kitsune Sniper]

There is an infinite number of digital downloads available for x product.

Count them all you want. Include them in your "collection," who gives a crap. It doesn't make them a collectable though in the purest sense of the word.

If that reality somehow irks you then you have bigger issues.

I'm too busy trying to figure out what is it about "digital collectors" that bothers physical ones so much to be irked, frankly.

Again, we're not in it for the value.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Ok hear me out on this one.

My biggest fear with buying digital games on say, the 360, is this... What happens when the service shuts down in say 5 or 10 years? Turtles in Time Arcade for example: What will happen to all the digital games I purchased on it if I have to reformat? or if the Hard Drive Dies? How will I re-download them? How can I verify I am the original owner if just the Console dies, and I pop the old HDD on the new 360?

Same goes for the PS3.

What if the Original X-box had Downloadable Arcade games? How would you get them back if ur console died 3 years from now?

See: MAME ROM fullset, 2600 ROM fullset, Intellivision ROM fullset, GBA ROM fullset etc. etc., and so-on, so-forth

In 5-10 years, when the digital marketplace gets the plug pulled and they shut the clouds down, there will be those in the circles that we travel in that have meticulously backed-up each and every commercial release that you may have at one time had on your 360 HDD.

When Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc. take away our ability to re-download what we've purchased, the gray market boys will figure out how to allow us to exploit our home systems in some way and re-install what we own (or, if you're feeling saucy, what you never paid for in the first place).

And for those of us who do like to contribute to the legitimate side of things, when companies do block all avenues to legitimate commercial sales of products, it tends to decrease the feeling of guilt in taking these types of steps where absolutely necessary.

Technically you can already do this on all three current gen consoles and both current gen portables (if we count 3DS as a next-gen), so, it's not some type of future fiction or wishful thinking ... rest assured, in 10 years you'll be able to play that copy of Turtles in Time Re-Shelled, you'll just probably have to minimally modify your console (and in the future it'll probably be as simple as running some type of custom firmware).

[Bojay1997]

I'm too busy trying to figure out what is it about "digital collectors" that bothers physical ones so much to be irked, frankly.

Again, we're not in it for the value.

Nothing about "digital collectors" bothers me other than the fact that it seems silly to keep track of your digital downloads considering that if you're playing them anyway, you probably have a good idea of what you have and don't have and presumably your console won't let you double download the games anyway, so keeping a separate inventory seems like a waste of time. Personally, the only reason I keep an inventory of my physical games collection is because it has gotten to the point where I can't remember everything I own and which box it's in, so it helps me avoid duplication of purchases.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Nothing about "digital collectors" bothers me other than the fact that it seems silly to keep track of your digital downloads considering that if you're playing them anyway, you probably have a good idea of what you have and don't have and presumably your console won't let you double download the games anyway, so keeping a separate inventory seems like a waste of time. Personally, the only reason I keep an inventory of my physical games collection is because it has gotten to the point where I can't remember everything I own and which box it's in, so it helps me avoid duplication of purchases.

So what you're saying is, we aren't allowed to make checklists of the stuff we've bought digitally? Because we're not allowed to keep track of it outside our consoles (or in my case, PC)?

It's no stranger than keeping score of how many copies of Super Mario / Duck Hunt you have. We're human. Our memories aren't perfect. And besides, you CAN purchase downloadable games, or download vouchers, at retail stores, you know!

[Richter Belmount]

Thats like if I downloaded roms onto my computer and called that collection that is worth something.

[buzz_n64]

It is a collection, but worthless. (I'm not just speaking monetarily)
If you're a gamer, and that's all that matters, then it's okay.

Am I materialistic, I guess, but at least I get some use out of my materials.
I don't collect to show off, or hope that the value goes up. I just like the thrill of finding the games, and having them in my collection. I'm not much into playing them, but occasionally I'll throw down on a game.

[teh_L0ki]

Thats like if I downloaded roms onto my computer and called that collection that is worth something.

Honestly if you want to collect roms I would say you can still do that and take pride in tracking down rare bootlegs / complete sets, etc.

A lot of people in this thread are taking it the wrong way because I didn't initially specify. I'm really talking about digital pc games at the moment. And yes I need a list to keep track because currently I have the 26th most games of anybody on steam according to one list. With over 500 games you tend to forget.

Maybe I am a purchasing junkie who gets a chemical high from buying the next great thing. But I think it's pathetic that some users here have such a narrow minded perception of what a collectible is. Really anything can be a collectible, because anything, no matter how asinine, as long as an individual cares about it, can be a collectible.

Value is not intrinsic to collecting because you can collect things that are essentially worthless. I personally think that if you are collecting video games with the intent to sell later when they appreciate in value, you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.


It is a collection, but worthless. (I'm not just speaking monetarily)
If you're a gamer, and that's all that matters, then it's okay.

Am I materialistic, I guess, but at least I get some use out of my materials.
I don't collect to show off, or hope that the value goes up. I just like the thrill of finding the games, and having them in my collection. It's not much into playing them, but occasionally I'll throw down on a game.

For me I get a similar thrill. While you state that digital games are always there with unlimited quantities and you can just purchase them any time, you are right. But for me the thrill is in bargain hunting and trying to get the best sales I can get. I have a digital collection that would be worth well over $7000 at retail but I've probably spent closer to $1500.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Honestly if you want to collect roms I would say you can still do that and take pride in tracking down rare bootlegs / complete sets, etc.

A lot of people in this thread are taking it the wrong way because I didn't initially specify. I'm really talking about digital pc games at the moment. And yes I need a list to keep track because currently I have the 26th most games of anybody on steam according to one list. With over 500 games you tend to forget.

Maybe I am a purchasing junkie who gets a chemical high from buying the next great thing. But I think it's pathetic that some users here have such a narrow minded perception of what a collectible is. Really anything can be a collectible, because anything, no matter how asinine, as long as an individual cares about it, can be a collectible.

Value is not intrinsic to collecting because you can collect things that are essentially worthless. I personally think that if you are collecting video games with the intent to sell later when they appreciate in value, you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.

Jaysis, and I thought I had a lot of games on Steam. Hah.

I've said it many times, I don't care about the monetary value of my collection. I care because they're MY GAMES. I don't know why the matter of price and cost, WORTH, keeps being brought up.

Worth doesn't have to involve a monetary value. :|

ETA: By the way, digital games do run out. Look at Prey, it's impossible to purchase digitally anymore because the keys ran out at all stores, and more can't be legally issued because of a rights dispute. Some games at GOG have been removed and can't be bought anymore because of similar issues.

[The 1 2 P]

Call me old fashioned but I actually like to "play" my downloadable games as opposed to just purchasing them and collecting them on my hard drive. I've gotten quite a few dlc games on XBL, although most of them were free with contoller or memory card purchases. But I get the cheap deals every now and then(especially at Xmas and the deal of the week) and even though I don't play them all right away I eventually get to them.

The last thing I want is for my assortment of dlc games to sit there unplayed like the majority of my retail games. But I have an excuse for that--it's hard to make time to play 500+ games. With dlc the number is less than 15 so eventually they'll all get played.

[Griking]

My digital game collection is mine and mine alone, I don't give a damn if anyone can't admire it on a shelf, I care because it's MINE AND THAT'S IT.
I agree with you but at the same time I find it amusing that you say that you don't care if anyone sees your collection when you have a signature that tells us to check out your collection.

[wingzrow]

Complete waste of time. You don't get a package, you can't backup your data, no manual, can't resell it, etc,etc,etc

I'm not a member of steam for a reason.

[maxlords]

Complete waste of time. You don't get a package, you can't backup your data, no manual, can't resell it, etc,etc,etc

I'm not a member of steam for a reason.


I'm a member of Steam for a reason. I've re-bought a BUNCH of games on Steam...because they're optimized for Vista and Windows 7 and otherwise running em would be a bitch even though I own physical copies. Good enough for me.

I'm starting to LIKE digital simply because of the filthy clutter it's cutting down on for me. That being said...you can also back up all of the Steam stuff if you want to keep disc copies...they let you DL the files and burn em for archiving or so I understand. I haven't bothered though. Yes, it sucks that there's nothing to really display...but what the hell do I care? I'm out of room as it is...I don't need even MORE stuff cluttering about!

[teh_L0ki]

Jaysis, and I thought I had a lot of games on Steam. Hah.

I've said it many times, I don't care about the monetary value of my collection. I care because they're MY GAMES. I don't know why the matter of price and cost, WORTH, keeps being brought up.

Worth doesn't have to involve a monetary value. :|

ETA: By the way, digital games do run out. Look at Prey, it's impossible to purchase digitally anymore because the keys ran out at all stores, and more can't be legally issued because of a rights dispute. Some games at GOG have been removed and can't be bought anymore because of similar issues.

I misspoke when I mentioned value. I was referring to solely monetary value, not the value an individual places on a given object.


Complete waste of time. You don't get a package, you can't backup your data, no manual, can't resell it, etc,etc,etc

I'm not a member of steam for a reason.

While you may not get a physical manual, most games still have a .pdf version available. Also, as was mentioned you can backup your games to cds for what it's worth. You can also launch steam without an internet connection and play single player games to your hearts content unless they have DRM which prevents that. DRM however you can expect to see more and more of, even with physical copies in the future, because there is still piracy on consoles.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I agree with you but at the same time I find it amusing that you say that you don't care if anyone sees your collection when you have a signature that tells us to check out your collection.

Oh, that's for trading! I've had people offer me games I already own, either in digital or physical form, more than once. So I got an RFGeneration account to start listing the games I own in an easily accessible form, so people can see what my gaming preferences are like. :)

Plus I've been chipping at the RFGen database bit by bit, adding stuff they don't have listed. That's my way of repaying them for hosting my list.

Edit: l0ki, I wasn't talking about you when I wrote that line. Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Complete waste of time. You don't get a package, you can't backup your data, no manual, can't resell it, etc,etc,etc

I'm not a member of steam for a reason.

Your assessment of download game backups on consoles is incorrect. You can back up your downloaded software to external media on all three current gen consoles and also on PSPs.

[Guru of Time and Space]

Your a retard , wait till your drm kicks in the new age.

Okay...

There are more important things on my mind than that, clearly.

-GoTaS

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'm too busy trying to figure out what is it about "digital collectors" that bothers physical ones so much to be irked, frankly.

Again, we're not in it for the value.

Of course you are. If you didn't value them you wouldn't be posting in caps and you probably wouldn't have any games, digital or otherwise.

[Richter Belmount]

Okay...

There are more important things on my mind than that, clearly.

-GoTaS

Nope just a yuppie

[Kitsune Sniper]

Of course you are. If you didn't value them you wouldn't be posting in caps and you probably wouldn't have any games, digital or otherwise.
I'm just really bad at writing tone of voice on the interwebs. :(

There there, just let me do my thing and we'll be fine. It's not going to make your collection any less valuable.

[teh_L0ki]

Edit: l0ki, I wasn't talking about you when I wrote that line. Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was.

Don't worry about it, I felt the need to clarify it regardless.


Your assessment of download game backups on consoles is incorrect. You can back up your downloaded software to external media on all three current gen consoles and also on PSPs.

I don't know much about the details of this myself because I don't actually own any current gen consoles. Is this something condoned by the companies or is this more a hack type thing? It's my understanding that with wii ware for example you have to call nintendo if you want to transfer your wiiware games to another console.


I'm just really bad at writing tone of voice on the interwebs. :(

There there, just let me do my thing and we'll be fine. It's not going to make your collection any less valuable.

I agree, to each his own. I'm kind of amazed at the degree of hostility towards digital collecting some people have.

[lkermel]

Personally I've never considered digital downloads as a part of my collection, I'm maybe too materialistic. I know some people have been collecting video game roms way before it became mainstream with the Virtual Console et such. But, in the end, it is whatever floats your boat, really - and a collection (in my mind) is whatever makes us happy. And don't worry about bothering the "physical" collectors - this happens all the time, a friend of mine is a hardcore postcard collector, and he gets bothered when he sees people who just collects postcards with dogs or flowers on them. He says it is stupid to have a postcard collection based on 'cats' - but again, in the end, I think it is whatever makes us happy, this is what 'collecting' is for in my book.

The only thing that saddens me about digital downloads is how easy it is for games to totally disappear. Look at the Super Nintendo BS for instance, some of the games aired back in the days still haven't been fully restored in their original forms - and we can't rely on the game companies to save all of this data for the future. Digital download is definitively where the video game industry is going, and it is the next logical and unavoidable step. We, as "video game historians", will just have to be a lot more vigilant I guess.

[Guru of Time and Space]

Nope just a yuppie

That's definitely not the word you're looking for.
Hippie? Maybe.
Yuppie? No.

-GoTaS

[tubeway]

That's definitely not the word you're looking for.
Hippie? Maybe.
Yuppie? No.

-GoTaS

Between your name, cheesy user icon and redundant sig at the end of your posts, I had you pegged more as some kind of Self Help book author. ;)

[Guru of Time and Space]

You must not be an Anthony1 fan, TUBEWAY.

-GoTaS

[Rev. Link]

I've seen a number of replies here, but none that have responded to the point I made. These download games, be they from XBLA, Steam, or etc., are officially licensed releases from the game companies. They're not pirated ROMs downloaded off of torrents. THAT is the reason why I count them along with my physical games. I would never count pirated ROMs.

I'm curious to hear what all of you think of that.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I've seen a number of replies here, but none that have responded to the point I made. These download games, be they from XBLA, Steam, or etc., are officially licensed releases from the game companies. They're not pirated ROMs downloaded off of torrents. THAT is the reason why I count them along with my physical games. I would never count pirated ROMs.

I'm curious to hear what all of you think of that.

I was going to bring that up, but I figured certain people would still consider them no better than roms due to the whole "you can't touch / display / sell" them thing.

[Gameguy]

Why would it matter if they were legit or not? People still buy multicarts, hacks, bootlegs, and "reproductions". Do people not count those either in their collections?