S-video or component?

[teh_L0ki]

For consoles that support both do you have a general preference or think one is better than the other for outputting at standard def?

[sheath]

I prefer S-Video for any 90s consoles that factory support it except the SNES. I can't think of any that support Component. From the Dreamcast on, if Component allows for progressive scan or higher resolutions I like the option. Sometimes 480p bring out the aliasing more than S-Video does.

To me they're the same thing in different packaging unless the resolution increases, kind of like Component versus HDMI. I do notice a difference in white and black levels between the three, but even on the same settings I can't say one clearly beats out the others.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

What kind of question is this? Component is cleaner and better than S-video. No classic gaming console supports component anyway, unless the kids these days consider the PS2, Gamecube and Xbox 1 to be classic gaming consoles. They're not.

[teh_L0ki]

What kind of question is this? Component is cleaner and better than S-video. No classic gaming console supports component anyway, unless the kids these days consider the PS2, Gamecube and Xbox 1 to be classic gaming consoles. They're not.

It's a question I ask out of curiosity. I googled before asking of course but I couldn't find an answer one way or the other, just the statement that component supports higher res. Both seperate chroma, and luma anyway.

Also, this is just a theoretical question but how long do you think it will be before the gamecube is considered retro? It came out 10 years ago and once the next gen hits would you consider it a retro console then?

[sheath]

I think we're going to have to accept the historical model eventually. Anything older than 10 years (which the Xbox and Gamecube will be this Christmas) is history.

The car model of anything over 20 years old is a classic seems to only be extended to muscle cars or popular cars. Obscure game consoles seem to get extended that courtesy much more quickly.

Anyway, I agree with your findings on the S-Video versus Component differences. At the same resolutions, they aren't that different.

[Greg2600]

I think the OP was mistaken. He probably meant to say composite, not component. Component is HD quality, composite is the lowest you go before RF. If we are to compare composite and S-Video, my personal take is that the difference is simply insignificant. Others swear there is, but comparing pictures or something, but with the game running, on an old CRT or even new LCD, I never saw much difference. Most newer TV's no longer have S-Video ports.

[Black_Tiger]

I have the ability to play Genesis systems with either component or s-video and I usually just go with s-video because it is more convenient and works on two of my 3 crt tvs (plus my capture card).

The isn't much difference in quality between s-video/component/rgb for 8 & 16-bit consoles compared to everything else beneath s-video.

[Trebuken]

RF ---> Composite ---> S-Video ---> RGB/SCART ---> Component ---> HDMI

Sega Genesis does not have Component, though I suppose it could be modded.

Component started with Progressive scan TV's which were the bridge to HDTV. I do not think than designate HDTV, they simply have the capacity to carry an HD signal where as S-Video probably does not. Component is roughly similar to RGB/SCART though it came after.

Much does depend on the TV you are displaying your material on. A Sgea Genesis outputting RGB is superior to RF/Composite/S-Video with the correct monitor, but might e indistinguishable on your everyday CRT/HDTV.

Some of the guys here know better than I and will hopefully chime in.

[teh_L0ki]

I think the OP was mistaken. He probably meant to say composite, not component. Component is HD quality, composite is the lowest you go before RF. If we are to compare composite and S-Video, my personal take is that the difference is simply insignificant. Others swear there is, but comparing pictures or something, but with the game running, on an old CRT or even new LCD, I never saw much difference. Most newer TV's no longer have S-Video ports.

No, I was comparing them running both in a standard def setting on say a gamecube. I know that's a bit modern for a retro gaming forum but the gamecube will be retro before too long, as I said it is 10 years old already.

[cynicalhat]

well from my experience, composite is ok enough for an SD TV. it gets the job done and miles better than RF. S-Video will give you a crisper picture with better color separateion. the colors don't bleed as much across pixels. component is a whole lot better since the channels are now separated even more, so the picture is even more sharp and the colors tend to look brighter. (you have a 27" sony wega so this is as good as it gets for that TV) the only problem with better inputs on low resolution console is that you notice the space between the scan lines more. I noticed this while playing final fantasy 7 on my ps3 hooked up with hdmi on my 40 inch lcd. everything was sharp and clear but made the tech look really outdated.

s-vid on snes/genesis generation consoles look great. IMO its the goldilocks not too sharp.... not too blurry.

[WCP]

RF ---> Composite ---> S-Video ---> RGB/SCART ---> Component ---> HDMI




Actually, you should have RGB/SCART and Component flip-flopped if you're considering non-progressive scan systems (everything prior to Dreamcast). Component is a very slight downgrade from RGB/SCART. It doesn't support the full bandwidth that RGB supports.

In regards to retro consoles, it is possible to enjoy them via component. I recently got my hands on a Kramer FC-14 Transcoder, and it's worked wonderfully for this very purpose.

http://www.kramerelectronics.com/products/model.asp?name=fc-14

The hard part, is that you still need to get your retro consoles outputting a RGB video signal, and then you need to feed that video signal into the Kramer FC-14. The FC-14 will transcode the RGB video to component, which makes it easy to hook up to modern day TV's. The video quality is outstanding. I used to use a XRGB2+ device, but I think I like the Kramer FC-14 even better now that I've been playing around with it more.

[retroman]

If it's composite vs svideo, then s vid all the way

[allyourblood]

Using my SNES with my LCD TV, I notice a significantly sharper and truer picture using s-video, vs. composite. Text is much easier to read and colors are obviously more accurate.

For my genesis, I can only choose between RGB or composite (not counting RF), and I think you can guess which looks better. The difference is like night and day -- RGB really is a huge leap forward in clarity and color, there.

[kedawa]

I'm pretty picky about video quality, but I don't find component to be significantly better than s-video at the same resolution.
It's certainly not as much of an improvement as s-video is over composite.

[teh_L0ki]

well from my experience, composite is ok enough for an SD TV. it gets the job done and miles better than RF. S-Video will give you a crisper picture with better color separateion. the colors don't bleed as much across pixels. component is a whole lot better since the channels are now separated even more, so the picture is even more sharp and the colors tend to look brighter. (you have a 27" sony wega so this is as good as it gets for that TV) the only problem with better inputs on low resolution console is that you notice the space between the scan lines more. I noticed this while playing final fantasy 7 on my ps3 hooked up with hdmi on my 40 inch lcd. everything was sharp and clear but made the tech look really outdated.

s-vid on snes/genesis generation consoles look great. IMO its the goldilocks not too sharp.... not too blurry.

Composite isn't cutting it for me on my wega, the dot crawl is killing me, which is why I hope hooking up s-vid will improve things. I just need to find a decent cable.

[cynicalhat]

the only thing i have via composite is the NES. everything else is s-vid or better. i got some game stop multi console (xbox 1 game cube and ps2 ) cables and they work wonderfully. the came cube connection is the same as the snes and n64. the rest i picked up at a local game store for the genesis. the wii is hooked up via component.

[cynicalhat]

to be honest, i never noticed dot crawl with my NES. perhaps the cable you are using sucks or is too long of a run and running into interference.

[CRTGAMER]

I wrote an in depth article may be of help.

Click my CRT vs LCD signature link.

[sheath]

The only time I can see "dot crawl" on my new 40" LCD TV over Composite is when I view it with an S-Video up converter. Otherwise it's pretty much how it has always looked, colors blend, and viewing too closely looks pixelated.

[j_factor]

Component started with Progressive scan TV's which were the bridge to HDTV.

That's not really true, actually. Although component supports progressive scan obviously, it was around on SDTVs before HD and EDTVs hit the market.

[Leo_A]

I can see a clear improvement in quality between S-Video and Component on a 480i CRT. In fact, it's a really big leap in visual quality, just like S-Video was to Composite.

If available, use it even if we're not talking about 480p or HD games.

I regularly play several pre NES consoles like my Colecovision with component video after modifications, and you even see a vast improvement on those.

Wish I had them still, but I took pictures of an episode of I Love Lucy on DVD a while back via composite, s-video, and component on a 480i CRT for a classic tv/movie forum I visit and there was a clear jump in quality. It completely got rid of the rainbow effect you often get from patterns on clothing for example, where as it was still somewhat there on the s-video shot.

[Gavica]

check this

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1763972&postcount=24

[teh_L0ki]

check this

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1763972&postcount=24

I'll admit I just skimmed large sections of the post because it seemed it largely related to gaming on HD tvs. I have the luxury of having a SD 27 trinitron.

You should add links to the individual sections, like your section on light guns, your section on drm, ect. It's a bit daunting as one large post.

[bend]

There's quite a few people who have converted to scart cables and passed them through a component converter box with great results. Since it's almost impossible to find a TV in North America with a scart input, it's a pretty good solution.

I plan on doing this myself eventually.

[Trebuken]

That's not really true, actually. Although component supports progressive scan obviously, it was around on SDTVs before HD and EDTVs hit the market.

Yup. I should have sais 'was popularized'.

What purpose did it serve on SDTV's?

[allyourblood]

Yup. I should have sais 'was popularized'.

What purpose did it serve on SDTV's?

A sharper and more detailed picture, along with truer colors.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

this seems like as good a place as any to ask so fuck it

anyone have any clue as to when micomsoft is planning on releasing the mini g2 flame meister?

long story but i found out the hardway ps1 & saturn cant output thru component due to their 240p nature :(

[sheath]

My brother in law's SDTV offered Component inputs for no reason other than compatibility. He's an Electrical Engineer and never saw the point if Composite was available. I tried to evangelize S-Video to him and he didn't care about that either. On his set Composite and Coaxial Cable looked just fine.

[Cornelius]

Yup. I should have sais 'was popularized'.

What purpose did it serve on SDTV's?

Weren't some 4:3 sets were offering 480p through component? I thought there was a brief time when EDTVs were on the market that there were also some 4:3 SDTVs that had 480p. That was certainly an odd couple of years for new TVs.

[cynicalhat]

check this

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1763972&postcount=24

man your TV is hacking that composite picture. granted it doesnt look as nice as scart but, ill have to take a picture cause that rendering of composite is just downright nasty. the letter N in "rings" is almost illegible.

in my opinion the low res nature of the older systems looks too sterile with component inputs. i bought castlevania 1 on the wii virtual console and it just wasn't the same. too perfect, might as well have downloaded the rom someplace and tossed it on an emulator. my opinion however.

[kedawa]

But... that's exactly what the virtual console is.

[Leo_A]

Weren't some 4:3 sets were offering 480p through component? I thought there was a brief time when EDTVs were on the market that there were also some 4:3 SDTVs that had 480p. That was certainly an odd couple of years for new TVs.

EDTV refers to it being a 480p television set. A SDTV is a 480i television. If it was 480p, it wasn't a SDTV.

[drunkninja]

There's quite a few people who have converted to scart cables and passed them through a component converter box with great results. Since it's almost impossible to find a TV in North America with a scart input, it's a pretty good solution.

I plan on doing this myself eventually.

Yep, I recently picked up a converter from a guy on the Neo Geo forums that converts SCART to component. Used it with my Saturn and Genesis and it looks absolutely fantastic on each. Still waiting on my SNES SCART cable to come in, and then I can directly compare it to the S-Video connection I'm currently using it. It is definitely a major step-up from composite on the Genny though.

[teh_L0ki]

I can see a clear improvement in quality between S-Video and Component on a 480i CRT. In fact, it's a really big leap in visual quality, just like S-Video was to Composite.

If available, use it even if we're not talking about 480p or HD games.

I regularly play several pre NES consoles like my Colecovision with component video after modifications, and you even see a vast improvement on those.

Wish I had them still, but I took pictures of an episode of I Love Lucy on DVD a while back via composite, s-video, and component on a 480i CRT for a classic tv/movie forum I visit and there was a clear jump in quality. It completely got rid of the rainbow effect you often get from patterns on clothing for example, where as it was still somewhat there on the s-video shot.

Thanks, I'll splurg for the component.

It's just significantly more expensive because I want a switch/splitter since the tv only has one set of hookups.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

Yep, I recently picked up a converter from a guy on the Neo Geo forums that converts SCART to component. Used it with my Saturn and Genesis and it looks absolutely fantastic on each. Still waiting on my SNES SCART cable to come in, and then I can directly compare it to the S-Video connection I'm currently using it. It is definitely a major step-up from composite on the Genny though.


What converter is this? it sounds like what im looking for, i was ready to dump money on an xrgb2+ or wait for the newer flame meister but it feels like im going overboard, if your method works, and its cheap, it'd be worth a shot

[Darko]

Thanks, I'll splurg for the component.

It's just significantly more expensive because I want a switch/splitter since the tv only has one set of hookups.

A bit off topic...but yours doesn't have component inputs?

[teh_L0ki]

A bit off topic...but yours doesn't have component inputs?

My tv has 1 set of component hookups but I'll need a switcher because I have more than one thing I want to hookup component and I don't want to constantly replug every time I want to use a different console.

[allyourblood]

My brother in law's SDTV offered Component inputs for no reason other than compatibility. He's an Electrical Engineer and never saw the point if Composite was available. I tried to evangelize S-Video to him and he didn't care about that either. On his set Composite and Coaxial Cable looked just fine.

He must not be concerned with image quality. Some people just don't care at the end of the day. Ignorance is truly bliss. Wish I didn't care -- it'd save me some money.

[kedawa]

At least he's not one of those mouth breathers that buys a giant HDTV, hooks everything up with composite or RF, and then acts like it's the best thing they've ever seen.

[sheath]

Well, I think it was a 26" set and it was set in a living room that needed at least a 46" for optimal viewing. I'm noticing that Composite looks great on my 40" LCD mainly because I sit 6 feet away from it and the set automatically filters out signal noise.

[stalepie]

I like to play old consoles in what they regularly supported for the time (non-modified), like composite for NES/Genesis/SNES and S-Video for Saturn. I think I use component for PS2, although I'm not sure I don't like composite better if it's for certain games (like 2D stuff). To me it looks better for it to be normal, like how both the designers and players saw it at the time. I don't really like it ultra clear or sharp.

I use HDMI for PS3... it may be that modifying old consoles for better cables is the way to go with LCD. Haven't really tried. I'm using a SONY CRT for the old stuff.

[Leo_A]

My tv has 1 set of component hookups but I'll need a switcher because I have more than one thing I want to hookup component and I don't want to constantly replug every time I want to use a different console.

A $15 unpowered system selector from GameStop or Wal-Mart would expand that to 3 or 4 connections for a small price and not affect the signal quality noticeably.

Just don't expect to push something like a 720p signal through it someday, since you'll probably find it's not quite up to the task.

[kedawa]

I like to play old consoles in what they regularly supported for the time (non-modified), like composite for NES/Genesis/SNES and S-Video for Saturn. I think I use component for PS2, although I'm not sure I don't like composite better if it's for certain games (like 2D stuff). To me it looks better for it to be normal, like how both the designers and players saw it at the time. I don't really like it ultra clear or sharp.

I use HDMI for PS3... it may be that modifying old consoles for better cables is the way to go with LCD. Haven't really tried. I'm using a SONY CRT for the old stuff.
The designers used RGB monitors in most cases.
For stuff like Atari VCS, where the blurring of pixels is actually used for shading, it makes sense to go for the low fidelity image, but for most anything else, the clearer the signal the better.
If you want to soften the image to give it a more authentic 'retro' look, just turn down the sharpness on your tv/monitor. That way you can still have the benefit of better colour separation and less interference, and still avoid overly sharp pixels.