Could Nintendo's next home console entice the early adopters/graphic whores?

[Zap!]

The Wii was only $250 because it came with a game that they wanted to essentially charge full price for. And Gamecube was not underpowered at all IMO. $300 I can see, but $400 is a pretty big leap.

Anyway, we don't really know how powerful this thing will be, but many people seem to think it will be only a modest step up from Xbox 360 and PS3. Compared to where technology is today that is underpowered.

Well, hopefully it will come with a game too. I hated the long stretch when systems didn't come with games. Seems like there was a time when they all came with games. NES, SMS, Genesis, SNES, Jaguar. Then magically they all stopped coming with games. Then Wii broke the streak. If they can package a $50 game in with the system, it will likely only cost $30 extra. I'd be all for it, it would save us in the long run. How about it coming with another Mario game? First time since 1991 with the SNES.

You're right, it's all speculation. While it's 99% certain to be more powerful then the PS3/360, just how much is anyone's guess. I personally would pay a little more to see a system that's substantially more powerful, although not everyone agrees. It's gonna be a long wait until June's E3...

[NayusDante]

Just noticed something. There's an inconsistency in the case prototype rumor shots. Note the Windows DVD case shape in one, but not the other. The one in the blurry PowerPoint presentation photo looks more like a router than anything.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/04/1303719948949.jpghttp://www.nintendo-master.com/fichiers/2011/4/21/1303378200.jpg

[NayusDante]

Also, the touchscreen controller is absolutely feasible right now. Check this out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-8-Sharp-LQ038J7DH52-Touchscreen-TFT-LCD-Replacement-/370504023875?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item5643c2bf43

That's a 4" touchscreen for $15 including shipping. If a Wiimote is $40, I can't see the "Wiimote with a screen in the middle" idea breaking $70.

[FxMercenary]

Am I the only one that noticed the lack of an optical drive? Better hope its not real...

Also, supposed controller...

http://www.weirdass.co.uk/images/stories/tech/wii2-controller-leaked.jpg

[Icarus Moonsight]

I was thinking that the slot towards the bottom was the disk feed mech... Huh. Still looks like a freakin' cable/sat box.

[NayusDante]

I was thinking that the slot towards the bottom was the disk feed mech... Huh. Still looks like a freakin' cable/sat box.

If you want your console to have mass-appeal, make it look like something people are familiar with. It worked for the Wiimote.

[kupomogli]

Project Cafe's final specs or fake? I think fake. I doubt Nintendo will pay royalties for the use of Bluray. They've always liked to manufacture all games developed for their systems so they can make as much as possible off developers. Not only that, but DVD movie playback wasn't even an option on the Wii, yet they're going to have three different types of disc formats? So yeah. Fake.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1228/prcspec13iu.jpg

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28154093&postcount=3183

[Icarus Moonsight]

The licensing wouldn't be so much as to be restrictive. Plus, custom disks. Sounds like Nintendo, adopting a cycle behind the comp. It's plausible.

[Leo_A]

They've been paying royalties to use various patents related to the DVD format the past two generations (Although they've skipped paying the DVD Forum's licensing fee to enable DVD video playback). So it doesn't seem unlikely to me at all. I wouldn't be shocked at all though to see them just license the technology they need from the respective companies again and skip paying the Blu-Ray Disc Association for video playback.

The rumors state that the optical media will be a single layered 25 gig disc. That fits precisely with Blu-Ray and nothing else out there right now.

[verneli]

I think Nintendo games will always be strong but they never seem to push technology as much as Sony or Microsoft so perhaps if they did they could corner more of the market if they can get the costs down.

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[WanganRunner]

Only 512MB of RAM? And more video memory than main ram?

I don't buy this.

We'll find out in a few days.

[Zap!]

This is gonna be the longest 6 days of my life.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Only 512MB of RAM? And more video memory than main ram?

It's a console, not a PC. 512MB of XDR2 is very impressive, if true.

[WCP]

It's a console, not a PC. 512MB of XDR2 is very impressive, if true.

I don't know what XDR2 ram is, but didn't the head guy of Crytek just say that the next-gen consoles should have 8 gigs of ram? 512mb, no matter how fast just seems a bit weak. I was thinking 2 GB minimum.

[buzz_n64]

I say just chill until e3, then we'll have most of the answers.

[Rob2600]

didn't the head guy of Crytek just say that the next-gen consoles should have 8 gigs of ram? 512mb, no matter how fast just seems a bit weak.

Most computers today don't even come with 8 GB of RAM, so why would a $250 game console?

[Icarus Moonsight]

512MB XDR2 is performance equal to or better than DDR5 2GB, if you take Rambus at their word. It's multi-thread RAM. Cool shit. That's plenty of system RAM for a next gen console, especially the first one, really. In theory, 8x more RAM throughput than PS3.

[Kyle15]

Project Cafe's final specs or fake? I think fake. I doubt Nintendo will pay royalties for the use of Bluray. They've always liked to manufacture all games developed for their systems so they can make as much as possible off developers. Not only that, but DVD movie playback wasn't even an option on the Wii, yet they're going to have three different types of disc formats? So yeah. Fake.

GC and Wii discs are essentially proprietary DVDs. If Cafe has any form of Blu, it'll definitely be custom as well.

[NostalgiaHunter]

I'm really looking forward Nintendos presentation at E3. I'm pretty sure the internet will shut down in due time.

What I would love to see from Nintendo is a high end console with:

A IMPROVED MARIO KART (Mario Kart Wii was a joke. No more bullets, please).
Final Fantasy
Some Exclusive RPGs

They will win with the above.

[NayusDante]

RAM is cheap today, so I'd expect 4gb minimum on a console.

I suppose 512Mb could be sufficient, if there's no OS overhead to deal with. Dedicated VRAM for textures and meshes means that there's really not that much else that you need in RAM. If you're dealing with thousands of entities with lots of parameters (Minecraft block worlds, maybe?), then yeah, you need RAM. Mario Galaxy 3, however, I think could make do with 512.

I still think it's possible that the real thing is nothing like what these rumors are claiming. It might be really low-end, maybe just a Wii with HDMI and digital audio, and possibly even an online platform overhaul. Maybe they're bringing OnLive-like functionality to the Wii...

[Icarus Moonsight]

Bank size is not important, what is important is bandwidth. Raw size numbers don't give that.

[NayusDante]

Well, it really depends on the content. With more RAM, you can have a lot more information at once, reducing the need to read from the disc, and it's more of a design constraint. Bandwidth is going to impact performance.

[Zap!]

Here's what it actually looks like, well for now anyway.

http://gamethingdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/wiiu_console.jpg

http://gamethingdaily.com/

[j_factor]

So any substantial word on how this thing compares in power to 360 and PS3?

[WCP]

So any substantial word on how this thing compares in power to 360 and PS3?

Well, basically, here is how it is going to work in terms of power. This console should be on a bit higher level than the PS3 and 360, but not so much as to be obvious. Really, only people with really large 1080p displays are going to notice the difference.

Initially, the Wii U multiplatform games will mostly be on par with the 360/PS3 versions. Reason being, developers have had YEARS with the 360/PS3, and they will start to use all kinds of creative tricks to get more juice out of these aging systems. While, Wii U developers are going to have to start back from scatch, learing how to program on a new console. Supposedly the CPU is very similar to the IBM Power PC cpu that is in the 360. Maybe running a bit faster, but not much. The GPU is supposedly on par with a Radeon HD 4830, which seems really weak compared to the most up-to-date GPU's, but it's actually pretty far beyond the 360 and PS3's GPU's which are quite a bit older.

The boost in Ram is going to be the big thing. Also, it's really going to boil down to how long Microsoft and Sony is willing to allow Nintendo to have this higher-end category to themselves. Some believe it will be November 2014 before we see anything from Microsoft or Sony, which would give the Wii U a full 2 year head start. In 2015, Developers should have a better grasp of what they could get out of the Wii U, compared to just starting their first games on the PS4 and Xbox whatever.

It will be a slow go in the beginning, but you know all the Nintendo games are going to look so good running in anything beyond 480p. Also, maybe some real discrete digital surround sound from Nintendo for the first time ever...

(by the way, everything above is totally conjecture on my part, so take with a giant grain of salt)

[Icarus Moonsight]

So any substantial word on how this thing compares in power to 360 and PS3?

I did a Google search this morning for such info and found squat. Maybe we'll get more from TGS in Sept.

Found this nugget just now:


We know the Wii U will support full HD 1080p gaming, and now we also know it will be facilitated by a custom Radeon HD graphics processor from AMD. In addition, IBM will be supplying Nintendo with a 45nm multi-core processor with embedded DRAM for the console.

Sauce (http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/08/preliminary-wii-u-specs-emerge/) Quote begins 1st paragraph; 4th sentence.

So far, the only obvious contradiction from the NeoGaf spec sheet is the 32nm CPU is stated here as 45nm. Specifics are light. eDRAM on CPU die confirmed, but not the bank size... Etc.

Also, had that tug in my gut that the Japanese Bird and Koi demo might be pre-rendered trickery ala PS1/2 Sony. Found these and it looks better for it:

Graphic Demo as Shown at Presser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shch7LNkVXw)

You can see how the possibility of FMV trickery would be possible...

Then:

Graphic Demo as Shown on the Floor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OHUwDShrD4)

Camera movement, control of when the demo proceeds... It's purdy, and it looks legit.

[Zap!]

Maybe I missed something, but I still have a few questions that I don't think were answered officially (not rumors):

1) What are at least some of the hardware specs? I know Nintendo doesn't doesn't talk much specs, but anything? PS360 killer or no?

2) Hard drive? I'd imagine yes, but size?

3) What media does it take? Blu-ray? Custom? How many gigs?

[WCP]

Maybe I missed something, but I still have a few questions that I don't think were answered officially (not rumors):

1) What are at least some of the hardware specs? I know Nintendo doesn't doesn't talk much specs, but anything? PS360 killer or no?

2) Hard drive? I'd imagine yes, but size?

3) What media does it take? Blu-ray? Custom? How many gigs?


Finalized official specs have not been released yet. In fact, I'm not sure that Nintendo internally has completely finalized the specs either. They have a very good idea of what the finalized specs are, but it's not 100 percent set in stone, at least that seems to be the case.


Still, some information has been revealed. Here is the best guess as to the answers to your questions:

1. PS360 Killer? No. The GPU is supposedly based off AMD's RV770 chipset. The most advanced GPU that used that chipset was basically a Radeon HD 4830. While a 4830 is definitely more powerful than a Radeon HD 2200 (Xbox 360 rough equivalent) and a Nvidia 7800 (PS3 rough equivalent), it's not dramatically better. Not by a long shot.

Nintendo probably went to AMD and said what is the best GPU you can deliver to us for X dollars per unit. AMD came back and said, we can do something based off our RV770 chipset for that price, somewhat equivalent to a HD 4830, but maybe just slightly better. The GPU in the 360 and PS3 is quite old, so yes, the 4830 is better, but it's not any kind of night and day difference.

Put it this way... nobody in their right mind, building a PC today would choose a 4830 as their GPU. Nintendo is going with it because of cost. They are trying to keep their costs as low as possible, and this GPU makes the most sense for them.

2. I've heard conflicting reports on the hard drive situation. One report says that it will have a hard drive standard, in the 260/300-ish gigs range. Another report says that it isn't going to have any hard drive, instead about 8 gigs internal flash, with the ability to expand that via SD card, and add maybe a large external USB hard drive.

3. Custom optical media that can hold about 25 gigs. Not blu ray. This has been confirmed by Reggie in an interview with Geoff Keighley.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Nintendo's own site states that storage is going to be internal flash (non-specified allotment), SD flash slot expansion and support for USB external HDD. I'd rather have off-the-shelf HDDs myself.

[duffmanth]

Think about how long it's been since the last home gaming console was released. This November, it will be a full 5 years since any home console has launched. Think about that fact for a moment. In the history of video games, when is the last time there has been a 5 year period with ZERO new console introductions? The longest drought between console releases that I'm aware of, is just under 4 years. Between the arrival of the GameCube on November 18th, 2001, to the launch of the Xbox 360 on November 16th, 2005. Just a couple days short of a full 4 years.


It's highly likely that Nintendo will launch the next home console. Most predict a November 2012 launch. Some think Nintendo could shock the gaming world with a e3 2011 announcement and a worldwide launch THIS November (doubtful) Still, whether it's coming in 2012 or this November, Nintendo will be first out the gate.

Certainly, Nintendo hasn't been interested in high-end hardware technology since the days of "Project Reality" with Silicon Graphics. Still, by default, the followup to the Wii should naturally benefit from the advances in CPU's and GPU's since 2004/2005, the years in which the 360 and PS3 designs were locked into place. The Wii HD (for lack of a better name), should easily have 4 times as much ram as the 360/PS3, and the GPU should be well beyond the GPU's in the 360 and PS3. For the first time since 1996, Nintendo will be the technological leader for a brief window of time. If it's a 2012 launch, Nintendo should have a 1 year advantage. If Nintendo could somehow shock the world, and get it out this November, they would have a 2 year advantage.

By default, the next Nintendo system is going to be the highest end home console platform. Surely, Nintendo will have a Mario game, or a Donkey Kong game, or something special to launch along with the system. Also, Nintendo will be well aware of the fact that the last go round, they didn't have the best developers in the world working on their system, mostly for technological reasons. Now, development teams like Rockstar North, Bioware, Epic, Dice, Insomniac, etc, etc, will be developing games for Nintendo's next console. I think the early adopters/console graphic whores, would love to jump on Nintendo's bandwagon if they could take them to a better visual level.

For me it's not so much about the pretty visuals (which is always a bonus) as much as it's about the selection of games. The last 3 Nintendo consoles have offered next to nothing for games that even remotely interests me. I stopped playing Mario and Zelda games 20 years ago and those seem to the games that Nintendo insists on rehashing over and over again. They're still great games, but they need to stop relying so much on the same first party games to sell their consoles.

If Nintendo wants to peak my interest and other mature gamers with their next console, they have to come out with some first party original and mature titles and get the other game studios on board to do the same.

[Icarus Moonsight]

If Nintendo wants to peak my interest and other mature gamers with their next console, they have to come out with some first party original and mature titles and get the other game studios on board to do the same.

Translation: "I'm 12, what is this?"

[The 1 2 P]

I'm still not sold on this things graphics being that much better than the PS3's and 360's currently are. And even if the FU....er, Wii U's graphics were a tad bit better, true graphics whores(if such a thing exist) would wait for the inevitable new Sony and Microsoft systems(respectively) since they will assuredly push the graphical output higher than whatever Nintendo has planned for next year.

And to comment on the hard drive issue, why won't Nintendo just go with a normal hd as opposed to using flash memory? From my understanding the cost of internal hard drives has gone down significantly since this gen started six years ago so it's not like it would be that costly for Nintendo to add atleast a 120 gig hard drive to each system. Perhaps they are just waiting to reveal this at a later date.

[GarrettCRW]

And to comment on the hard drive issue, why won't Nintendo just go with a normal hd as opposed to using flash memory? From my understanding the cost of internal hard drives has gone down significantly since this gen started six years ago so it's not like it would be that costly for Nintendo to add atleat a 120 gig hard drive to each system. Perhaps they are just waiting to reveal this at a later date.

If this thing has support for external USB drives, then there's ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to include a hard drive in the system. And, really, the SD reader smacks of legacy support. It's much better to just have a minimal flash drive to start with and let users buy their own drive (which is what can be done by the user with the PS3) while avoiding pissing off the user base by overcharging for hard drives *cough*360*cough*.

But, I'm sure it's just easier to call the system names and then quote yourself in your sig. :D

[NYLatenite]

I haven't seen any official specs, nor would I even trust any mentioned at this point as more often than not, things change before a console is released.

I'm a gamer and generally a first adopter, so I'm going to keep my eye on where Nintendo goes from here - but I will say this; I haven't been overly impressed with the selection of games available for Nintendo consoles over the last two generations, so they aren't going to get my money just because it's a new console.

They're going to need to show me a game or two that's going to make me say "I want to play this" and either have that game exclusively or have their version of it be good enough to say "I'm willing to drop X number of dollars to play this."

Basically, Nintendo's "Look! It's Mario!" approach to things isn't going to make me buy the Wii U. Nintendo needs to show me that they're serious about making a game console that fits my tastes and is going to have support beyond just Nintendo titles.

Oh, and while I think the 25gb custom disc format is a great idea, I really do hope to see hard drive support (external is fine, if not preferred, by me) and solid online support.

Bottom line? It's all about the games. To put it in food terms, lay out a delicious menu, and I'm going to stop in and eat.

(Oh, and before the inevitable, let me state that this is what will entice *me* to buy the console. Just my 25 cents worth. Yes, I know Nintendo has a rabid fan base, and yes, I know for a lot of people, the standard Nintendo franchises are far more than enough to buy in on day one. Your mileage may vary.)

[Zap!]

Translation: "I'm 12, what is this?"

Or what I would say: "I'm 38, where's Mario and Zelda?" :)

[Vlcice]

If this thing has support for external USB drives, then there's ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to include a hard drive in the system.

I can actually see a reason to include an internal hard drive. Having an HDD standard means that devs can count on it, and do things like cache data on the hard drive. It's not vital, but it's good to have the option. If the hard drive is optional, and there's only a small amount of flash in the system, devs have to develop their games with the assumption that players won't have a hard drive.

[Rob2600]

I can actually see a reason to include an internal hard drive.

Reasons to not include a hard drive:

1. Smaller console.

2. Cooler console.

3. Quieter console (since it'd run cooler, no need for noisy fans).

4. More reliable console (fewer moving parts = less chance of something breaking).

I'd much prefer internal flash memory.

[The 1 2 P]

If this thing has support for external USB drives, then there's ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to include a hard drive in the system. And, really, the SD reader smacks of legacy support. It's much better to just have a minimal flash drive to start with and let users buy their own drive (which is what can be done by the user with the PS3) while avoiding pissing off the user base by overcharging for hard drives *cough*360*cough*.

But, I'm sure it's just easier to call the system names and then quote yourself in your sig. :D

Well they said they are trying to entice the hardcore back over to their console. Along with better third party support and a robust online multiplayer structure, a standard hard drive could do wonders for them. Or maybe I'm just spoiled from having owned an original Xbox and then having a hard drive standard with my 360 and PS3. I'm sure Nintendo would just point to the Wii and mention how that sold admirably well without that newfangled contraption called a hard drive.

As for the name, mine isn't nearly as silly as Wii U. And besides, it worked for Fired Up.....kind of.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Newfangled hard disk drives? LOL

Welcome to 1956.

[Leo_A]

Newfangled hard disk drives? LOL

Welcome to 1956.

I believe he was talking specifically about game consoles. Back when the Wii was released, beyond the original Xbox and optional HD attachments for the PS2 and Xbox 360, it was brand new territory.

That said, couldn't they use the internal flash memory as a caching device? Why does it have to be a hard drive?

[Vlcice]

That said, couldn't they use the internal flash memory as a caching device? Why does it have to be a hard drive?

There's not that much space you can count on. It's better than not having any space, but since an internal flash drive isn't going to have as much storage it means that, once you take into account OS and user stored material on the drive, there's less of an ability to count on having a big block of storage free for caching. It's easier for the manufacturer to reserve a large block for caching on a drive with a large amount of space.

[Leo_A]

The rumors I hear put the internal flash memory at 8 gigs (The same as the hard drive on the Xbox, and nearly at the 50% mark of what the initial premium model of the 360 had and what the initial budget model of the PS3 had).

That seems like it would offer ample capacity for game caching with significant space left over for some DLC and other necessary uses like the OS.

[The 1 2 P]

I believe he was talking specifically about game consoles. Back when the Wii was released, beyond the original Xbox and optional HD attachments for the PS2 and Xbox 360, it was brand new territory.

Exactly. One only needs a little common sense to get that.

[Icarus Moonsight]

What's the only thing worse than a dead HDD? An undead one...

deadpool_tingling.jpg

Common sense tells me, the way HDDs are being handled in this case is better than the options we've had in the past.


All systems have HDD of same allotment - no official upgrade options - Forced standardization come with capacity and utility limits. *glances over at modded Xbox w/ 250GB HDD* Unofficial upgrade channels exist.
Proprietary optional drives offered mid-cycle, supports a few official functions/games. Few, if anyone, cares.
No HDD option officially supported at all *glances over at softmod Wii with a 320GB USB HDD that cost $45* Unofficial upgrade channels (quite literally) exist.
Paying for a factory HDD in all cases - while in some cases you have the option of a simple off-the-shelf upgrade - the others have various allotments, pretty messy.
HDD systems, and no HDD systems offered - Official upgrade paths border on rape - Unofficial upgrades do exist, but not sure it shit will work right anymore if/when caught using common sense.

[Rob2600]

The rumors I hear put the internal flash memory at 8 gigs (The same as the hard drive on the Xbox, and nearly at the 50% mark of what the initial premium model of the 360 had and what the initial budget model of the PS3 had).

Don't some Xbox 360s come with no hard drive at all? 8 GB of flash memory should be fine for video gaming, especially since it's expandable via SD cards and USB hard drives.

[Leo_A]

Don't some Xbox 360s come with no hard drive at all? 8 GB of flash memory should be fine for video gaming, especially since it's expandable via SD cards and USB hard drives.

Several models never had a hard drive.

[NayusDante]

I still want to see a better quality video of the Japanese garden demo. Web video blurs the image and I can't see fine details. If anyone sees an uncompressed capture of the demo, please post it here. Watching it again, I don't see anything technically new, and it really does look like 2008-era GPUs being pushed to the limit. I'm guessing it's customized somewhat more than a stock 4830. I ran my 4850 at 1080p on most games, but performance wasn't quite up there with the overhead of an OS. It should be enough, but I still wish they had gone with a current-generation GPU. Watch AMD's HD 5XXX and 6XXX demos (especially order-independent transparency (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjylP1q5BpU)), there's a lot of neat effects and techniques that I would have liked to see in a console GPU.

I don't think storage matters unless Nintendo plans on doing digital distribution for full Wii games. For WiiWare and Virtual Console stuff, 8gb is actually pretty good.

[Rob2600]

it really does look like 2008-era GPUs being pushed to the limit. ... It should be enough, but I still wish they had gone with a current-generation GPU. Watch AMD's HD 5XXX and 6XXX demos (especially order-independent transparency (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjylP1q5BpU)), there's a lot of neat effects and techniques that I would have liked to see in a console GPU.

One thing you have to keep in mind: Nintendo isn't aiming for high-end $2,000 computer enthusiasts. Instead, it's trying to find the best balance between nice 1080p graphics and consumer-friendly price.

If the Wii U ends up producing graphics that are a little bit better than the Xbox 360 and PS3, and costs less than $300, then that's perfect for 99% of the population. The hard part is having to wait and see. :)

[Icarus Moonsight]

It doesn't have to mine Bitcoin, just play games. LOL

[shopkins]

I can actually see a reason to include an internal hard drive. Having an HDD standard means that devs can count on it, and do things like cache data on the hard drive. It's not vital, but it's good to have the option. If the hard drive is optional, and there's only a small amount of flash in the system, devs have to develop their games with the assumption that players won't have a hard drive.

It also might limit the size of any future downloadable games for whatever online shop service they roll out, because companies and Nintendo might be less enthusiastic about creating big downloadable games if the additional space isn't standard. Who knows how big they might get in the next five or six years, you can already buy full retail games for the 360 that would take the whole 8 GB. And it's less likely, if it's not standard, that Nintendo will build the ability to install games for faster loading into their OS. Developers also probably won't build in the kind of large installs you see on the PS3.

[Icarus Moonsight]

USB HDD support - I've seen 500GB ones for $50. By the time the system launches 1TB USB drives will be $70 or less. They're PnP solutions. All this concern seems pretty silly.

[The 1 2 P]

One thing you have to keep in mind: Nintendo isn't aiming for high-end $2,000 computer enthusiasts. Instead, it's trying to find the best balance between nice 1080p graphics and consumer-friendly price.

If the Wii U ends up producing graphics that are a little bit better than the Xbox 360 and PS3, and costs less than $300, then that's perfect for 99% of the population.

This is probably exactly what Nintendo is aiming for.

[j_factor]

USB HDD support - I've seen 500GB ones for $50. By the time the system launches 1TB USB drives will be $70 or less. They're PnP solutions. All this concern seems pretty silly.

If you're talking about caching and installs, though, data transfer rates over USB are not comparable to an on-board hard drive (or SSD).

[NayusDante]

External storage is also not the most secure way to handle digital distribution...

[kupomogli]

If the Wii U ends up producing graphics that are a little bit better than the Xbox 360 and PS3, and costs less than $300, then that's perfect for 99% of the population. The hard part is having to wait and see. :)

The 3DS costs $250. I'm sure the Wii U would cost more, especially considering that Iwata stated the Wii U isn't going to be cheap.

The 3DS while not really weak, is much weaker than the PS Vita which is priced the exact same, which is also obviously the more expensive of the two in terms of parts I'm sure. The Wii U is a console, so it's not going to be as cheap as the 3DS, especially when it's going to be new.

[Enigmus]

If you're talking about caching and installs, though, data transfer rates over USB are not comparable to an on-board hard drive (or SSD).

Unless Nintendo decides on USB 3.0 support, which would be much closer to IHD transfer rates.
Post 1,991- same year # as SNES and Sonic the Hedgehog.

[Leo_A]

External storage is also not the most secure way to handle digital distribution...

Why is that?

It doesn't seem like it would be any extra risk involved. I can hook up a Xbox 360 hard drive or PS3 hard drive to my PC and examine it's contents with just a little effort.

A storage method using USB doesn't seem like it would suddenly be far less secure just because it can be more easily hooked up to a computer.

[WCP]

The Wii U is a console, so it's not going to be as cheap as the 3DS, especially when it's going to be new.

I'm starting to think that there is actually a legitimate chance that the Wii U could come to market as low as $249.99 . Originally, I was thinking $299 would be the absolute lowest, but the more I think of it, the more I think $249 is the right price for them. The downside, is that they won't be making much of a profit at that price (if any). However, Nintendo has to be aware of the fact that the an Xbox 360 bundle with Kinect, and a PS3 bundle with Move, will likely be in that same price range, or even cheaper, come November 2012. If they come in at $299, and there is an Xbox 360 Kinect 250 gig hard drive bundle for like $249 or even $199 at that point, it's going to be hard for people to want to pay the big $$ for a Wii U when they have other options.

I think it's definitely $249 or $299, there is no other option. No way in hell it's going to cheaper than $249, and I just can't see them charging more than $299 with a straight face.

Bank on it.

[Swamperon]

[QUOTE=kupomogli;1826951]The 3DS costs $250. I'm sure the Wii U would cost more, especially considering that Iwata stated the Wii U isn't going to be cheap.
QUOTE]

But, Nintendo admitted they inflated the 3DS price due to the excitement they saw for it at E3 and after. This has arguably backfired for them with the 3DS sales post-launch not being that impressive (it has yet to sell 1 million in NA).

It should have been retailing for $199/£160.

I imagine they'll want to avoid taking a similar path with the WiiU. If it costs more than £250, I won't be buying until a price drop.

[Swamperon]

[QUOTE=kupomogli;1826951]The 3DS costs $250. I'm sure the Wii U would cost more, especially considering that Iwata stated the Wii U isn't going to be cheap.
QUOTE]

But, Nintendo admitted they inflated the 3DS price due to the excitement they saw for it at E3 and after. This has arguably backfired for them with the 3DS sales post-launch not being that impressive (it has yet to sell 1 million in NA).

It should have been retailing for $199/£160.

I imagine they'll want to avoid taking a similar path with the WiiU. If it costs more than £250, I won't be buying until a price drop.

[Icarus Moonsight]

If you're talking about caching and installs, though, data transfer rates over USB are not comparable to an on-board hard drive (or SSD).

Ext USB hard disk is still faster than internal optical, and that's what matters most.

I wouldn't count on them going those routes either. Digital parallel releases for retail disk games are most likely - Besides the obvious VC and Wii "Under" Ware stuff. Full installs and partial installs are up in the air at this point.

[j_factor]

The 3DS costs $250. I'm sure the Wii U would cost more, especially considering that Iwata stated the Wii U isn't going to be cheap.

There's plenty of time for a 3DS price drop between now and the Wii U launch.

[Bojay1997]

I'm starting to think that there is actually a legitimate chance that the Wii U could come to market as low as $249.99 . Originally, I was thinking $299 would be the absolute lowest, but the more I think of it, the more I think $249 is the right price for them. The downside, is that they won't be making much of a profit at that price (if any). However, Nintendo has to be aware of the fact that the an Xbox 360 bundle with Kinect, and a PS3 bundle with Move, will likely be in that same price range, or even cheaper, come November 2012. If they come in at $299, and there is an Xbox 360 Kinect 250 gig hard drive bundle for like $249 or even $199 at that point, it's going to be hard for people to want to pay the big $$ for a Wii U when they have other options.

I think it's definitely $249 or $299, there is no other option. No way in hell it's going to cheaper than $249, and I just can't see them charging more than $299 with a straight face.

Bank on it.

I agree with you. Just given the fact that the hardware is slightly more powerful than the 360 or PS3 would indicate that a year from now when they start ramping up production, the component parts will probably be in the $100-$150 range. The big variable is the controller, but given that they can sell DS lites for $100 and still make a profit, I am confident they are getting a good price on those touchscreen components as well.

[WCP]

The big variable is the controller, but given that they can sell DS lites for $100 and still make a profit, I am confident they are getting a good price on those touchscreen components as well.

The thing about the controller, is that from what I understand, it doesn't really have much hardware inside it, because it's just basically acting as another screen, it's not really doing any internal number crunching. So, yes, you have the cost of the 6.2 inch screen, but remember, it's not a multi-touch screen. Also, with Nintendo able to order 10 million of those screens in bulk, they are getting them at a drastically reduced price.

I just hope that Nintendo changes those circle pad things to legitimate thumbsticks. I was listening to a podcast the other day, and the guy was talking about how he used the controller for several hours playing the various demos, and he said that while the controller is much more comfortable than you would assume it to be, he said that the "circle pad" things were pretty lame as thumbsticks, and that he would NEVER play a first person shooter using that controller.

Why isn't Nintendo putting legitimate thumbsticks on that thing? You know, thinking more about it, Nintendo has never had a "legitimate" thumbstick on any of it's hardware. It's always been some type of nub like thing. I wonder if it has something to do with not wanting to pay a fee to somebody because of a patent or something.

[RP2A03]

Why isn't Nintendo putting legitimate thumbsticks on that thing?

Probably so they can save money. Since the 3DS uses the circle pad they probably figure the the WiiU controller should too. Why make two different components that do the same thing when you can make just one? At least replacement pads for the 3DS will be easier to find in the future.


You know, thinking more about it, Nintendo has never had a "legitimate" thumbstick on any of it's hardware. It's always been some type of nub like thing. I wonder if it has something to do with not wanting to pay a fee to somebody because of a patent or something.

Um... wut?

https://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad101/RP2A03/controllers/N64-controller.jpg

https://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad101/RP2A03/controllers/gcn_controller_black.jpg

https://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad101/RP2A03/controllers/wii-controllers-unlocking-the-secrets-20060714053323578-000.jpg

https://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad101/RP2A03/controllers/wii_classic_controller_pro_white__6.jpg

[WCP]

Probably so they can save money. Since the 3DS uses the circle pad they probably figure the the WiiU controller should too. Why make two different components that do the same thing when you can make just one? At least replacement pads for the 3DS will be easier to find in the future.



Um... wut?

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad101/RP2A03/controllers/N64-controller.jpg

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad101/RP2A03/controllers/gcn_controller_black.jpg

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad101/RP2A03/controllers/wii-controllers-unlocking-the-secrets-20060714053323578-000.jpg

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad101/RP2A03/controllers/wii_classic_controller_pro_white__6.jpg



-



I wouldn't consider any of those to be "legitimate" thumbsticks, in the manner that I would a DualShock thumbstick or a Xbox thumbstick. You might be able to consider those "mini" thumbsticks, but they aren't full size thumbsticks ala a DualShock or 360 pad. I would say that to varying degrees, all of those are closer to a "nub" like thumbstick.

[Leo_A]

Those are all most certainly analog thumbsticks.

Have you ever used a PSP or a 3DS? People generally use the term "nub" to refer to a analog stick mechanism that slides rather than tilts, such as how the PSP, 3DS, and apparantly the WiiU operate. The analog sticks on a N64, GCN, or Wii controller most certainly tilt just like the analog sticks on a Xbox or Playstation controller do and aren't very different beyond some styling differences.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'd agree in regard to N64, but the rest... No. Microsoft controllers have never seemed 'legit' to me. Not N64 awkward, but in the same line. The whole Circle Pad thing is going to take some getting used to... We'll see.

[substantial_snake]

The analog nub was the first thing that stuck out to me with the new controller. I used to use a very similar replacement analog nub "top" on my original psp and although it did improve things It still was uncomfortable for long stretches of time. That and I find that true 3D movement with analog nubs is uncomfortable and awkward, something about not having that free range of motion never felt right on psp games.

Nintendo may have found a better way with their design but I'm still skeptical.

[RP2A03]

-



I wouldn't consider any of those to be "legitimate" thumbsticks, in the manner that I would a DualShock thumbstick or a Xbox thumbstick. You might be able to consider those "mini" thumbsticks, but they aren't full size thumbsticks ala a DualShock or 360 pad. I would say that to varying degrees, all of those are closer to a "nub" like thumbstick.

I must disagree with that. While I will give you that the yellow C-stick on the GCN controller is certainly nubby; I can't really say the same for the other sticks. Sure, the grips are not as wide, but they are quite adequate in girth and I would not consider them to be nubs. Also, while the GCN/Wii sticks are not as long, I find their lower profile to be more pleasing as it permits greater tactile feedback.

[WCP]

The analog sticks on a N64, GCN, or Wii controller most certainly tilt just like the analog sticks on a Xbox or Playstation controller do and aren't very different beyond some styling differences.

Ok, they might tilt the same way, but you must admit that they are much smaller than the full-sized thumbsticks on a dualshock controller or a Xbox controller. Also, if you were playing either Call of Duty or Halo or Killzone or whatever, you're not going to get the precise movement of your camera like you do with the DualShock or Xbox thumbsticks. The N64 probably was the closest one to being almost like a full sized thumbstick, just about 33 percent smaller, but if I had a controller that had two of the N64's thumbstick, and I was trying to competitively play a Modern Warfare game with that, I'd get worked over really quickly.

For simple action type games, a thumbstick like that is fine, but for really precise control, you simply need a bigger thumbstick, unless you have hands the size of a newborn. I'm not a huge first person shooter guy, so this isn't that huge a concern for me, but if there was somebody out there that was hoping that maybe the Wii U could be the one and only system they own, I hope they aren't really into online shooters, because they might be in for a serious disappointment after using the small thumbsticks.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Also, if you were playing either Call of Duty or Halo or Killzone or whatever, you're not going to get the precise movement of your camera like you do with the DualShock or Xbox thumbsticks.

Good thing no one, at this point, has to worry about playing Halo or Killzone on a Nintendo home console.


For simple action type games, a thumbstick like that is fine, but for really precise control, you simply need a bigger thumbstick...

Or the Wii-remote/nunchuck combo that is so key/mouse like, it hurts, but in a good way. Key/Mouse > Wii-remote/Nun > Dual Analog That's not even considering how the screen controller will work with FPS. The one thing that sucks with the remote/chuck deal is sniping... The screen controller is like a sniper rifle scope IRL.
Also:
http://gengame.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Wii-U-with-Wii-Gun.jpg
Combo! Dual analogs plus more!

The control was pretty good in some Wii FPS games. The online infrastructure and graphics scale was what hampered the genre on the platform (PC heavy genre - hard to scale down that far). Besides, the genre needed some serious hampering. There's so much brown-down mediocre crap it's sickening.

[calgon]

I finally got caught up on all the E3 news/Wii-U minutiae and wanted to touch on a few points:

-The controller itself seems way too fragile to leave on a coffee table or floor, especially with my five-year-old son and soon to be born daughter running around.
- Disappointed with lack of real hard drive. I was hoping with Nintendo possibly showing more of an interest with an online marketplace users would be able to download both virtual console games and larger budget downloadable titles akin to back to the future
-The name doesn't bother me, these things are ultimately toys
-People who buy this who did not own a wii will now have to buy wii-motes and accessories. I was hoping for a generic ps2/snes-type controller. Ah well.
-The controller itself will keep the price high on this one. I can see it being 300 or more.

I more or less sat out on modern gaming from 2005-2009 and the wii is the only console I own. I hope Nintendo can push more 1st and 3rd party software than the wii has given us so far, and rely less on gimmicks.

[Leo_A]

The controller itself seems way too fragile to leave on a coffee table or floor, especially with my five-year-old son and soon to be born daughter running around.

How'd you arrive at that conclusion? Because of the screen?


Disappointed with lack of real hard drive. I was hoping with Nintendo possibly showing more of an interest with an online marketplace users would be able to download both virtual console games and larger budget downloadable titles akin to back to the future.

I'm not sure the lack of a hard drive has actually been confirmed yet. And even if it's not, there's no reason the things you're hoping for couldn't happen. The thing is rumored to have 8 gigs of flash memory, 4 USB ports (With that many, I have to believe they intend for users to be able to attach an external hard drive to at least one of them), and a SD card slot.


People who buy this who did not own a wii will now have to buy wii-motes and accessories. I was hoping for a generic ps2/snes-type controller.

I imagine the thing will ship with a Wiimote and a nunchuck for typical motion gaming (The WiiU gamepad/touch screen has some motion capabilities, but clearly it isn't suitable for most motion gaming and Nintendo certainly isn't about to abandon that style of gameplay now by not including the necessary controllers out of the box).

And what's the problem for multiplayer gaming? You'd have to buy some sort of controller anyways for each additional player, whether it was your gamepad idea or existing controllers. This way, at least a portion of the buyers of this device will be able to save money by reusing their current controllers.

Seems like a good deal to me.

[Zap!]

-People who buy this who did not own a wii will now have to buy wii-motes and accessories. I was hoping for a generic ps2/snes-type controller. Ah well.
-The controller itself will keep the price high on this one. I can see it being 300 or more.

While it certainly can use Wiimotes or any Wii hardware, you can take it to the bank that they will use their own wands which have far superior motion sensing technology. No way it will use the last generation's hardware as its standard. This is a very early prototype that may be as much as 17 months away from release. They rushed to get the display controller to the public, and ignored the other stuff. Just look at the system and it's plainness. It looks like a friggin' portable CD player. No way it looks like that in the end. I'd also bet on the tablet to have wi-fi and have full internet features like the iPad and Xoom, and possibly its own SD slot.

As for it being $300 or more, well so be it. That's half the price of the 2005 PS3, even less considering inflation.