Collecting Old Games to play now, then sell later at a profit. My Argument

[FxMercenary]

This is an Argument that people have debated over for a while now on these forums, but I feel like collecting old games right now just might turn out to be a wise thing to do, so here goes!

1. Collecting something you can actually play with. Old games are something that you can actually play with and enjoy. Sure you can collect toys and anime figures, but chances are, people aren't going to be letting you babysit their kids...

2. Nostalgia. Nintendo, Sega... Everyone had one, everyone loved it. The late 80's and Early 90's in the US, combined with youth, is something that people will always remember as "Good Times". When the country gets deeper in debt, and the recession gloom continues, people like to have an escape, and they look back at the high points in their life, and enjoy re-living that.

3. Baby Boomers/Mid-life Crisis. Here is what I believe is my most valid argument. Take a look around at "Today's" Generation in their late 40's to mid 50's. They look back, and remember what was cool and fun when they were young, and you see many of them driving New-Old style cars like the New Camaro, the New Mustang, and Harley Davidson Motorcycles. These types of vehicles' return is solely due to their mid-life crisis, then they were young, and good times were to abundant.

So what is going to happen when folks our age reach that pinnacle in their life? What will they be looking back at, and remembering as fresh, good times? Something tells me that it wont be Skip-It or Sock`em Boppers...

Thoughts?

:popcorn:

[Bojay1997]

The difference is that with most other collectibles like cars, etc... there is almost no chance of an identical version ever being made available digitally or otherwise, especially not at a reasonable price. That's just not the case with video games. Moreover, these were pressed in the millions of copies in most cases, so they will likely never be rare. Finally, people just tend to save things more nowadays than they ever did in the past, so the percentage of video games that has been thrown out or destroyed is probably fairly minimal. As such, collecting video games is a fun hobby, but it is very unlikely that anyone will ever make much money from it, at least not collecting the games that most people will be nostalgic to own later in life.

[portnoyd]

You missed the boat by 5 years. Things are too saturated and competitive and plateaued.

For me, it was a very wise thing to do. Very. Very very very.

[lkermel]

Bojay1997 is right, and I'd like to add a couple of things.
The virtual console (and therefore emulation) has shown that 'casual' gamers are nostalgic about the games themselves, not the hardware and cartridges. They can have their nostalgic 'fix' without the need to hunt down original consoles and games. Then this is a generation thing, I remember the Atari 2600 being 'hot' 10/15 years ago or so - it still is, but I feel that the pool of collectors has decreased, rare games are still expensive, but the common ones have dropped in price a lot. The NES and SNES are currently hot (again this is a generation thing) but I'm sure the same thing will happen for these consoles. A friend of mine works at flea markets and such, and he told me that there's always a phase, people tend to look for objects (comics,toys and so forth )from their youth in then 20s/30s, then when they get 50 or so they change focus and sometimes resell all of this stuff, and only the hardcore collectors stay on.
So, rare items will always be expensive, but I'm not sure if the common ones will ever be. I may be wrong though. I've always taken my collecting hobby as a fun hobby, I never thought about the profit side of it - and if I did I would have stopped ages ago ;)

[GrandAmChandler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8B0PfV2R0I

[FxMercenary]

I still do not agree, Thats like saying that images of old baseball cards and ford mustang kit cars are good enough, its just not correct. People will always want the original, the real thing. Sure, Digital downloads might be "good enough" for some people right now, but thats going to change. You could buy a 60s Mustang or Chevy in 1985 for about 90% less than what they are going for today. People that grew up in them didnt have their mid-life crisis yet.

Give it 15 more years, and I think you will be surprised.

[Arcade Antics]

I still do not agree, Thats like saying that images of old baseball cards and ford mustang kit cars are good enough, its just not correct. People will always want the original, the real thing. Sure, Digital downloads might be "good enough" for some people right now, but thats going to change. You could buy a 60s Mustang or Chevy in 1985 for about 90% less than what they are going for today. People that grew up in them didnt have their mid-life crisis yet.

Give it 15 more years, and I think you will be surprised.
http://nighthawknews.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/airplane.jpg

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Sure, Digital downloads might be "good enough" for some people right now, but thats going to change.

It's going to change?

What exactly is going to cause this dynamic shift in the desire of casual gamers interested in playing Super Mario Bros., Ms. Pac-Man or Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 to want/need original hardware vs. inexpensive digital downloads that work on their current gen systems?

[Snappaccino]

It's going to change?

What exactly is going to cause this dynamic shift in the desire of casual gamers interested in playing Super Mario Bros., Ms. Pac-Man or Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 to want/need original hardware vs. inexpensive digital downloads that work on their current gen systems?

http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5884375/It-Makes-Sense-if-you-dont-think-about-it.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=jackie-chan

[Kitsune Sniper]

Video games are the new comic books.

Anyone who buys games now just to resell them in the future is just wasting money. Most games have a high enough print run that they'll never be "rare".

[Bojay1997]

I still do not agree, Thats like saying that images of old baseball cards and ford mustang kit cars are good enough, its just not correct. People will always want the original, the real thing. Sure, Digital downloads might be "good enough" for some people right now, but thats going to change. You could buy a 60s Mustang or Chevy in 1985 for about 90% less than what they are going for today. People that grew up in them didnt have their mid-life crisis yet.

Give it 15 more years, and I think you will be surprised.

Look, there will always be some percentage of the population who takes their nostalgia to that next level and it is even possible that it will even increase over time. Having said that, comparing cars that were manufactured in limited quantities to begin with, were expensive to own initially and which were heavily used for many years, many ending up totaled or scrapped is not the same as video games which were manufactured in massive quantities, cheap to own and are literally all over the place because they don't lend themselves necessarily to being worn out or thrown away. That's not to say that there won't be more collectors in the future, but having followed the car market for years, the inflation in prices hasn't been necessarily because people have started having mid-life crises it's because the already small quantity of high grade collectible cars is smaller than the collector's population and their available financial resources. In some cases, there are only hundreds or a few thousand nice examples out there of a particular year, make and model. I can think of very few games where that would be the case and frankly, most of those games have little or no nostalgia value to most ordinary gamers.

[Arcade Antics]

This is an Argument that people have debated over for a while now on these forums, but I feel like collecting old games right now just might turn out to be a wise thing to do, so here goes!
http://bigspace.celerity.co.uk/moviedeaths/grabs/indiana_last_crusade-donovan-3.jpg

1. Collecting something you can actually play with. Old games are something that you can actually play with and enjoy. Sure you can collect toys and anime figures, but chances are, people aren't going to be letting you babysit their kids...
http://bigspace.celerity.co.uk/moviedeaths/grabs/indiana_last_crusade-donovan-5.jpg

2. Nostalgia. Nintendo, Sega... Everyone had one, everyone loved it. The late 80's and Early 90's in the US, combined with youth, is something that people will always remember as "Good Times". When the country gets deeper in debt, and the recession gloom continues, people like to have an escape, and they look back at the high points in their life, and enjoy re-living that.
http://bigspace.celerity.co.uk/moviedeaths/grabs/indiana_last_crusade-donovan-6.jpg

3. Baby Boomers/Mid-life Crisis. Here is what I believe is my most valid argument. Take a look around at "Today's" Generation in their late 40's to mid 50's. They look back, and remember what was cool and fun when they were young, and you see many of them driving New-Old style cars like the New Camaro, the New Mustang, and Harley Davidson Motorcycles. These types of vehicles' return is solely due to their mid-life crisis, then they were young, and good times were to abundant.
http://bigspace.celerity.co.uk/moviedeaths/grabs/indiana_last_crusade-donovan-8.jpg

So what is going to happen when folks our age reach that pinnacle in their life? What will they be looking back at, and remembering as fresh, good times? Something tells me that it wont be Skip-It or Sock`em Boppers...

Thoughts?

:popcorn:
http://bigspace.celerity.co.uk/moviedeaths/grabs/indiana_last_crusade-donovan-9.jpg

[portnoyd]

POTY candidate.

[HappehLemons]

Video Games are for playing not for selling you silly man.

[Oldskool]

Collecting video games is not an investment.

I believe in the phase thing.

Once our generation is done, or tired of collecting 8 bit and 16 bit systems, we will cool off. Then the people that are about 10 years younger than us will pick things up with consoles like the N64, PS1, etc. It's already started to happen. So those games will be the highly collectable games. Then when they grow old and tire of them, the next generation of gamers will be collecting in full swing.. the PS2 and XBOX, DC, and Gamecube games will be highly collectable and so forth..

Like mentioned Atari games are not worth what they used to be.

While people will still be collecting, it won't be at the scale it is now for consoles like the 16 bit systems.

Although there is one thing to remember, when we were kids, we didn't think that boxes and manuals were worth so much, nor did we know that if we didn't open up that game it would be worth so much. So many boxes ended up in the trash (I was guilty of that as a child myself).

Now that people know there is some value in those sorts of things people are holding onto the manuals, boxes, inserts, reg cards, etc etc. What this is going to cause to happen is that the newer games won't be worth as much because EVERY one of them just about will have a case and manual and so forth. We cannot correct the damage that has been done already on the older games, so therefore they will always be collectible. I know I am contradicting myself - just some observations.

Not to mention, they are making games in MUCH higher quantities than they used to, so therefore they won't be as rare.

It's much like baseball cards and comic books. Back in the day no one knew they would be worth so much, so few survived. Now everyone says "save those", so since everyone is saving them, they aren't worth anything because there are so many already out there. I have baseball and football cards that are 20 years old and are not worth crap. 20 years ago, if I had 20 year old cards, they'd be worth at least a few bucks for each common. Now a common from 20 years ago is barely worth 10-20 cents.

[FxMercenary]

It's going to change?

What exactly is going to cause this dynamic shift in the desire of casual gamers interested in playing Super Mario Bros., Ms. Pac-Man or Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 to want/need original hardware vs. inexpensive digital downloads that work on their current gen systems?

Economics my friend. People get old, and their parents die, and they come into a little bit of money, and they buy a Harley, they buy a low-end porsche etc... Its actually quite simple. The real thing, in physical form, will always carry more demand than aftermarket.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Economics my friend. People get old, and their parents die, and they come into a little bit of money, and they buy a Harley, they buy a low-end porsche etc... Its actually quite simple. The real thing, in physical form, will always carry more demand than aftermarket.

Eh, I'm sorry, but in the context of casual gamers looking to quickly/easily play a specific game for the sheer instant gratification of playing that game - WHY, regardless of how old they are or how much money they have would they opt to seek out original NES hardware and software and go through the trouble of getting it set up/getting it to work Vs. spending $5 to download an HD version on their current gen console?

I think you're confusing older, nostalgia-bound gamers who make a conscious decision to begin "collecting" as a hobby/interest with casual gamers looking to play their favorite classics. Certainly there are those who opt for the original hardware, but they are squarely in the minority and always will be.

I don't believe that (as your scenario seems to dictate) 15 years from now that there will be a dynamic shift from the amount of adult users currently downloading "classic" virtual console releases (or "Greatest Hits" collections of emulated titles on retail media) to those going out and hobby-collecting classic hardware/software.

[Bojay1997]

Economics my friend. People get old, and their parents die, and they come into a little bit of money, and they buy a Harley, they buy a low-end porsche etc... Its actually quite simple. The real thing, in physical form, will always carry more demand than aftermarket.

Wow, your speculation just gets more and more absurd. I know several people in their 40s, 50, and 60s who have inherited pretty decent amounts of money from their parents' estates in the last few years and not a single one went out and splurged on collectibles. One paid off much of their student and credit card debt, one put the money into a college fund for their kids and one paid off their house and did some renovations to the bathroom and kitchen. Given that people are living longer and longer and therefore depleting their savings, I find it very hard to believe that people in their 60s and 70s are going to take the money they inherit from their parents passing away in their 80s and 90s and put it into a bunch of then 50-60 year old video games. Is this some kind of argument you are making to convince yourself or maybe your spouse that filling your house up with video games is a good long-term strategy?

[lkermel]

I think the only way to look at the future of the hobby, is to look back. Again, as I said, the 15 years threshold you mention already happened for the Atari 2600. And the conclusion is that ultra common games are now dirt cheap, you can easily find a complete Space Invaders going for a fiver. However, ultra rare games are still expensive, and some even more than before. Prototypes are also more expensive now than they were 10 or 15 years ago (I feel). So the morale is low quantity prints (like with any collection) will always be expensive and will raise in value, simply because they are rare and the small community of collectors is enough to keep the price up.
You know, I sometimes compare this to movies or music - if you own a first VHS print of whatever movie from the 80s, then a casual movie fan won't care much about it, and will prefer to own a recent DVD print of it because in the end, he cares about the movie itself, not the medium on which it's printed on. I feel that the same applies to casual gamers, they want to play Super Mario Bros and I believe it's a lot easier for them to play it on the Virtual Console than to hunt down a NES and the real game...
The morale of all of this is that rare items will always be expensive and valuable (sadly, you never know if a game is rare until it's too late, you have to gamble or do a lot of research beforehand). Really common ones won't be. And this, I think, applies to any collection, really.

But you know what ? I hope you're right, as it'd mean that I'm sitting on a gold mine and if I give it 15 years, then it will even be before my retirement age ;)

[jordandavid]

It's going to change?

What exactly is going to cause this dynamic shift in the desire of casual gamers interested in playing Super Mario Bros., Ms. Pac-Man or Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 to want/need original hardware vs. inexpensive digital downloads that work on their current gen systems?

Off-topic, but what exactly made you bring up Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 and lump it with those games??

[Parodius Duh!]

why are classic cars being compared to video games???????? Id say thats a big difference as far as collector base goes. Sure people will want the real deal but most of us who want the 8/16 bit era stuff have already been collecting it for years! some will continue to collect, others will leave the hobby, etc.....Id say theres not going to be a big difference in the collector base 10 years from now. Only thing, as previously mentioned is that there will be less people collecting the 8/16 bit stuff and the younger kids will be collecting the stuff they want from their generation.

Only the really rare stuff (Rendering Ranger, Snow Bros. megadrive, Flintstones dinosaur peak, etc.) will retain its value, because games like that are the vintage mustang or porsche or whatever of the 8/16 bit era.

[98PaceCar]

I think the only way to look at the future of the hobby, is to look back. Again, as I said, the 15 years threshold you mention already happened for the Atari 2600. And the conclusion is that ultra common games are now dirt cheap, you can easily find a complete Space Invaders going for a fiver. However, ultra rare games are still expensive, and some even more than before. Prototypes are also more expensive now than they were 10 or 15 years ago (I feel). So the morale is low quantity prints (like with any collection) will always be expensive and will raise in value, simply because they are rare and the small community of collectors is enough to keep the price up.

This is not entirely true. Look at "rarities" like Motorodeo and Ikari Warriors. The Argentina find has dropped what used to sell for >$100 loose on a regular basis down to less than $20 brand new. At one point, Pepsi Invaders sold for $1800 loose, but I got mine for $600 just a few short years later. It's not a hard and fast rule that what was once worth a lot is not worth as much now, but it's a larger cross section of games that have fallen in price than those that have risen or just maintained.

Besides, if you are looking for a nice ROI, nothing is going to top a properly managed investment account with the right diversity. Anything else is just trying to justify spending money by calling it an "investment".

[Rickstilwell1]

The only way to go by the OP's method would be to collect them now short term, play them quickly and resell them quickly. Otherwise the price will go down. Everybody wants Earthbound on SNES complete for example right now. Down the road when everybody is sick of the game or figures they can just play it with emulation or a flash cart (which will also be more common and affordable by then as more are produced), Earthbound may be one of the first things they sell to get their cash back for something else they want because it will return their spent money the quickest without sacrificing the majority of their collection. Then the market will flood because they'll all need money at the same time and it will be someone else's turn to have a copy.

Neo Geo AES used to cost $500 all the time and now it's usually a $200 system.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Off-topic, but what exactly made you bring up Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 and lump it with those games??

Nothing in particular. Just random.

[klausien]

Try selling a collection of several hundred loose cartridges without basically paying someone to take them away. It's impossible to do with any kind of speed and ease, if at all. This was not so even 5 years ago. Common sense dictates that complete games in great condition retain their value much, much better, but other than some NES, SNES and TurboGrafx games, the vast majority of them collect piles of dust now before they move. (Admittedly, my problem is largely that my cart collection is all loose for the most part because they were purchased used, for play) I find it especially tragic that Sega games other than the SMS have failed to retain any value whatsoever. However, I think that is more due to the fact that their fanbase was more sports game-oriented than the others; analogous to the mainstream FPS and Sports "gamers" of today. That, and the fact that they have spent the better part of the last 15 years alienating their brand loyalists through the continued abuse of Sonic and flat-out abandoning of the majority of the IPs & characters that made them what they were (thankfully this seems to be changing a bit), but that is a thread of its own.

Flash carts are becoming widespread enough that anything cartridge-based other than the truly rare and in demand titles is effectively worthless. They are the nails in the coffin of the Golden Age, 8-bit and 16-Bit markets because they solve the "I need to play it on the original hardware" problem quite elegantly. Conveniently taking your whole collection (with some exceptions) and putting it all on one cartridge, with the added bonus effect of reducing the wear and tear on your 20+ year old systems, sure beats blowing into the ends of piles of dirty old carts. It's devastating. Less of the "hardcore" set are searching out hordes of cartridges now than you think, and new retro fans are just starting with Flash Cart at the outset.

Yes, it has been possible, and quite easy, to make (illegal) copies of CD(& DVD)-based games for over a decade. Even so, some games have still retained their value, but all of those originals will eventually become truly worthless when they begin to pit and rot. Either that, or the hardware will begin to flake, then die unnanounced (all while the price & scarcity of good hardware increases). It's enough to make me want to just dispense with it all sometimes. Of course, the market for most of the 32-bit & last gen systems is absolutely dead right now because they are still in closeout everywhere. In the present, liquidation just isn't possible without hemorrhaging money.

I for one don't think it is going to get any better. The ultra mass-produced, disposable nature of the media, coupled with the planned obsolescence of hardware, mean that the disc-based era will probably never see the rebirth in equity, despite any increase in popularity, that the cartridge eras did. The people who populate the target demographic have also been stealing music from the internet for a much longer time than they've spent buying it. The resultant attitude of expecting everything to be free transfers quite readily to media of all kinds. Emulation is also more acceptable to the same demographic, it generally makes early 3D polygons look better, and it basically solves the optical drive issue. There will always be diehards of course, but honestly, we have always numbered in the single digits in terms of our percentage of the market. We define niche.

In addition to these modern piracy conveniences that make the accumulation of mountains of free software so simple, the combination of the ongoing economic depression (don't fool yourself); escalating fuel prices making things like shipping costs too high (what profit?); eBay/Paypal killing sellers with fees/Fed starting to tax sellers on what is still essentially a garage sale (bastards basically forcing you to sell at a loss - like I said, what profit?); the death of true low-res & the CRT (R.I.P. - you'll be sorely missed by these eyes); among many other factors, have contibuted to the withering of the collector's market for video games. It's all doom and gloom...

...So stop thinking about video games as an investment! They are a very, very poor place to lock up your money unless you are interested in pursuing a career in selling them. Only collect what you are going to play or you'll end up with more than you know what to do with.

[PapaStu]

People that played the games on the original hardware care. The newer gen that is playing the games via Virtual Console, or on a device like an iPod won't. They are the children of the digital age. Where owning the item isn't as important as the ability to play 'it' (and it being the game itself, in some form or another). Do they care to go to a music store to get their music? Nope, hell they're lucky to find places that even sell a selection of music that's not an incredibly limited top 40 selection. Movies are going that way as well. Many have become perfectly content hitting up iTunes or Amazon and buying the digital copies of XYZ and calling it a day.

The huge increase of internet useage hasn't helped things either. Emulation and 'teh romz' has taken a chunk out of those who'd 'care', even among collectors. Why fill up your room with 700 NES games when your powerpack and 'teh romz' take care of it all for you. You can replace the Powerpack with and DS or other similar flash cart and see the same thing.

If you're going to play and dump, you've got to ride the wave and know when to coast into shore. 2600 is ded, NES is getting there, better hit the next wave before it crests (GameBoy, SNES and PlayStation) cause when those prices come crashing down, all you're going to get if you're still holding onto them is a wall of games that will only get moved as a whole at a loss.

[tubeway]

Is this some kind of argument you are making to convince yourself or maybe your spouse that filling your house up with video games is a good long-term strategy?

Bingo. Whenever I see spotaneous arguments like this for collecting it always strikes me that the person is really just tring to convince themselves. If they can convince others then it's reinforced even more.

[fahlim003]

Lately, it seems as though this forum is offering a slice of reality and this topic is serving it up by the pound.

With respect to what PapaStu says:

2600 is ded, NES is getting there, better hit the next wave before it crests (GameBoy, SNES and PlayStation) cause when those prices come crashing down, all you're going to get if you're still holding onto them is a wall of games that will only get moved as a whole at a loss.
It makes sense to me. I believe the NES generation as a whole can be considered which is to include the Master System and perhaps the 7800. I find it incredible local stores can still cling to such prices and yet the cartridges for the most part sit, rot, and collect and nice heap of dust. I think Game Boy can even be included in that demographic. The 16-bit generation has only begun and thanks to large numbers the Genesis is leading the way. Like Master System before it, Genesis preserves well thanks to the clamshell on what I'd imagine is ~70% of the software and as such there is little to hunt out or find that's not lasted unlike anything CIB from Nintendo prior to GameCube and DS respectively.

This topic strikes me where it counts and really makes me question what future lies in new acquistions. Nothing lasts forever and I suppose if profit is the game then the question lies in when to get out while you still can. Regarding what I have, I got rid of everything pre-SNES a while ago pardon some lingering Master System which recently struck me towards getting a Master Everdrive. One cartridge, 100's of games, no hassles and more free space. Keep the games that reasonate with you (and or that see the most play-time) and sell the rest. For those interested in original hardware while it lasts flash cartridges are looking more and more as the way to go, I presently have Super Flash Cartridge for SNES and when I'm working again a Master Everdrive will be on the horizon. Sure there's a certain satisfaction and obvious legitimacy in owning the real games but unlike the digital copies, won't be around forever. Emulation too has gotten to the point that sometimes I find myself choosing my computer over booting it up on the television downstairs, and I'm not alone in this regard.

This along with the topic by fishsandwich (see: here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110955)) really help shake out the cobwebs and get the gears turning. Enjoy the hobby and keep it that way, don't let it become a chore.

[jonebone]

Well, I agree that video games can be collectible in the future, just not the average run-of-the-mill loose carts that are popular.

But stuff that is very hard to come by, like Minty Complete or Sealed Rares, will probably appreciate for a good while. The demand far outweighs the supply there. However, your average $10 Super Mario 3 cart is likely to fluctuate in the $8-$12 range forever. Maybe more if the price moves with inflation, but that's about it. There will always be plenty to go around.

One argument that hasn't been made is how obsessive / compulsive many new collectors are. God knows I was that way too. When I first got into collecting, I treated it like a race and built up a collection as fast as possible. I see many people doing the same.

All it takes is a few new collectors who want items right now, and the price moves up quickly. They're willing to pay BIN prices while we all know that they'd auction a bit lower if the collectors were patient.

So it's a fine line to walk. I'm collecting out of the joy of the hobby, not because I want to retire a millionaire off it. Games that are truly special to me are priceless anyways, and hold far more sentimental value than any dollar figure can measure.

[Swamperon]

Let's not forget if you want to invest, there are far better, safer options out there that have higher chance of giving you a higher return.

Video games are a terrible investment. It's better to just keep an eye out for those extremely rare games that are being sold cheaply and then sell them for the profit. You'd probably make more money that way.

[ifkz]

Wow, what a thread...slice of reality indeed. I am one of the old collectors that's been at this since 1997 and everything this thread has said is true. People haven't brought up compilations either; it is interesting to watch what is happening in the Neo Geo AES market, it is crashing, I think. Most hardcore Neo collectors seem to have moved on to consolized arcade boards along with 111-in-1 multi carts. The PS2 and Gamecube compilations have really hurt things too. I love my PS2 Metal Slug Anthology; it is beyond crazy to want to spend $1,000 for Metal Slug 1 when this is available. For me, the Neo Geo AES was the top "investment" market, and look where that's going.

For me, I see the hobby as analogous to collecting first print run books. Some people like first editions, other people are fine with paperbacks, the new fad seems to be e-book readers. Same thing with old videogames here: originals, compilations, & digital downloads.

Want to continue the book analogy? I could even joke around...copies with the dust jackets are the only complete originals....

No, I am not a book collector, I took all of those old yellow smelly dead trees to a local Half Priced Books. It took up too much room. (yes, see the irony, how many have said the same things about old game cartridges).

This caused me to take a more critical eye to my old stuff. You know, why keep it when there are flash carts, emulators, digital stores, etc. I like it and the memories I had collecting it. Finding a set of 3d glasses in the wild. Finding a CDX system after years of searching for one in the wild. Etc., etc. This thread makes me happy I was never a "money" collector. I did, and still do, like the fact that some of these items are worth something to other people. It makes me feel happy I'm not alone in collecting these things :)

[Bojay1997]

Wow, what a thread...slice of reality indeed. I am one of the old collectors that's been at this since 1997 and everything this thread has said is true. People haven't brought up compilations either; it is interesting to watch what is happening in the Neo Geo AES market, it is crashing, I think. Most hardcore Neo collectors seem to have moved on to consolized arcade boards along with 111-in-1 multi carts. The PS2 and Gamecube compilations have really hurt things too. I love my PS2 Metal Slug Anthology; it is beyond crazy to want to spend $1,000 for Metal Slug 1 when this is available. For me, the Neo Geo AES was the top "investment" market, and look where that's going.

For me, I see the hobby as analogous to collecting first print run books. Some people like first editions, other people are fine with paperbacks, the new fad seems to be e-book readers. Same thing with old videogames here: originals, compilations, & digital downloads.

Want to continue the book analogy? I could even joke around...copies with the dust jackets are the only complete originals....

No, I am not a book collector, I took all of those old yellow smelly dead trees to a local Half Priced Books. It took up too much room. (yes, see the irony, how many have said the same things about old game cartridges).

This caused me to take a more critical eye to my old stuff. You know, why keep it when there are flash carts, emulators, digital stores, etc. I like it and the memories I had collecting it. Finding a set of 3d glasses in the wild. Finding a CDX system after years of searching for one in the wild. Etc., etc. This thread makes me happy I was never a "money" collector. I did, and still do, like the fact that some of these items are worth something to other people. It makes me feel happy I'm not alone in collecting these things :)


I disagree that the Neo Geo market has tanked. In fact, on the AES side, Complete English games are about 30-40% more expensive than they were just 2-3 years ago. On the MVS side, the multi-carts have certainly hurt prices, although rare kits still command a premium. I honestly don't know how long those high prices can last, however, given the fact that the Neo Geo is now 20 years old and as you pointed out, most of the games are readily available elsewhere.

[Oobgarm]

Unless you're the type of person who buys and sells quickly, following the "strike while the iron is hot" ideology, then games are not a good investment at all.

Everyone seems to have overlooked Port's post:


Things are too saturated and competitive and plateaued.

The NES on the whole has reached its limit with about 95% of the library. Nearly everything has peaked in terms of desirability and collectability. That scant 5% of games will either stagnate or appreciate, but anyone who is anyone in the collecting world knows that small percentage of games is very tough to come by, and only those who got in on the ground floor on those titles (or got lucky in the wild, etc) has seen a nice possibility for return.

Same thing goes for the 2600. SNES is almost there, if not already.

I found this out selling my collection off just this past week. There are desirable titles, sure, but they are no Stadium Events or Flintstones Surprise. I made a bit of money on a few titles, but I lost money on the bulk of them.

Comparing games to cars is crazy. Cars are different. They have a universal appeal, where as old games do not. You can take a classic car out and I'd wager that nearly everyone who sees it will be like "wow, that's a nice car" or something to that effect. Nearly every average citizen has an interest in cars, whether they express it or not. It is practically a necessary part of our modern society, so it would make sense.

Take a picture of a basement full of video games, and all you'll get is "wow, that was a lot of money spent there" and "I bet that person never goes outside" from everyone but enthusiasts that understand.

And say what you want, but gamers dedicated to the hobby like those here will ALWAYS be a niche group. It's not a generational thing, as I can guarantee that there are more people out there that don't care about games at all than those that do, even in the Gen-X or Gen-Y group.

[fergojisan]

The real thing, in physical form, will always carry more demand than aftermarket.

Like compact discs are doing right now!

[FxMercenary]

Apparently people didnt read the title of this thread. The "to play now" part should have been paid attention to. Im not talking about hoarding multiple copies of games. Right now I have about 100 NES games and 95 SNES Games. None of them are crappy "rare titles" that are low release ( because they sucked ) Most of them are pretty common. Chrono Trigger, Zelda, Contra etc... Lets call them "popular titles" Now, I no longer collect, I bought the games I wanted to play 3 years ago, and paired them all with their Manuals, and some of my Favorites, I bought the boxes for, just for display.

Heres the thing, on average, on ebay, where I bought all of these titles, the price has gone up about 30% from the time I purchased them.

To me, thats great, I would profit if I sold them right now, plus, I got to play them all while I collected them. Which is why I think that old games, collected as a hobby, are a lot like old cars because they are something you can enjoy while you own them. Unless of course, you are a sealed game collector ( the same type of person that buys an old car and parks it in a plastic bubble )

So, I collected popular titles and in the long run I think that they will not go down in value, I think they will go up in value even more.

And dont say "nobody throws out old games" because they do. How many NWC 1990 carts were made? How many have been found? And that is a unique thing that someone won and may have a hard time throwing out, not some "crap common game" that got old.

And the longer these old games sit in attics and basements, the more they will degrade and rot, exposed to the constant heat and cold and moisture.

I was told when I was a child by my father that I should collect Baseball cards, not magic cards, because they were "just toys" I wish I would have opted for the magic cards, because when I was playing them, they were all Unlimited and Arabian Nights.

Nobody can predict the future and claim it will come true, until that day arrives.

[Oobgarm]

To me, thats great, I would profit if I sold them right now, plus, I got to play them all while I collected them.

Then the words "collecting" and "buying to play" should not be used interchangeably.

You were not "collecting" games, you were "buying to play", like you said.

Eventually, this stuff will hit a ceiling, Everyone who wants one either has it in their possession or has another means to play the title, be it on original hardware or not. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's going to constantly rise in price. Ask people what they thought about Beanie Babies when they were popular. Same thing goes for baseball cards and Hot Wheels. Everything today is produced in such massive numbers, none of it will ever be worth much more than what it sold for. There will always be a couple rare exceptions, but not many. The bottom will fall out sooner or later, and you'll be be stuck holding the bag if you think you're "investing" your money by buying games you like or are popular "just to play".

That is precisely why older toys are so valuable...they were actually used and not everyone back then had the "I'm gonna resell this stuff later" mentality like they do now. You can thank shows like Antiques Roadshow, Pawn Stars, and their ilk for permeating that.

Besides, many rare things have not been found since the person who owns them is either unaware of what they have or is unwilling to come forth with it. This is true for old things as well as new stuff.

[Bojay1997]

Apparently people didnt read the title of this thread. The "to play now" part should have been paid attention to. Im not talking about hoarding multiple copies of games. Right now I have about 100 NES games and 95 SNES Games. None of them are crappy "rare titles" that are low release ( because they sucked ) Most of them are pretty common. Chrono Trigger, Zelda, Contra etc... Lets call them "popular titles" Now, I no longer collect, I bought the games I wanted to play 3 years ago, and paired them all with their Manuals, and some of my Favorites, I bought the boxes for, just for display.

Heres the thing, on average, on ebay, where I bought all of these titles, the price has gone up about 30% from the time I purchased them.

To me, thats great, I would profit if I sold them right now, plus, I got to play them all while I collected them. Which is why I think that old games, collected as a hobby, are a lot like old cars because they are something you can enjoy while you own them. Unless of course, you are a sealed game collector ( the same type of person that buys an old car and parks it in a plastic bubble )

So, I collected popular titles and in the long run I think that they will not go down in value, I think they will go up in value even more.

And dont say "nobody throws out old games" because they do. How many NWC 1990 carts were made? How many have been found? And that is a unique thing that someone won and may have a hard time throwing out, not some "crap common game" that got old.

And the longer these old games sit in attics and basements, the more they will degrade and rot, exposed to the constant heat and cold and moisture.

I was told when I was a child by my father that I should collect Baseball cards, not magic cards, because they were "just toys" I wish I would have opted for the magic cards, because when I was playing them, they were all Unlimited and Arabian Nights.

Nobody can predict the future and claim it will come true, until that day arrives.

Except that's exactly what you are trying to do. What we can do is apply reason and logic which you seem to be intent on completely ignoring. I can't believe that this whole thread was started over 195 games that on average are probably worth $5-$10 each on a good day. Let's assume you're correct and over three years you spent around $2K on these games and twenty years from now they double in value, grossing you $4K (which is very iffy for all of the many reasons everyone has posted above), with inflation avergaing about 2.7% annually (which is what it was from 1990 to 2010) you would make the equivalent of $600 not including all the time it will take to list them, any Ebay and Paypal fees (13% or more), the cost of storing them, moving them, etc....Not exactly a sum of money even worth thinking about given how long it will take you to realize the profit and how much effort would be involved.

Contrary to your claims, Americans rent more storage space and keep more junk than any other culture in the world and new storage units are being built and opened everyday. I also doubt most people are storing most of their stuff in damp or frozen/hot environments. Most people store things in closets or storage units which aren't perfect, but also aren't exactly cartridge killers.

I think of games as a hobby but the second you start trying to predict what will and won't become valuable, you are set up for disaster and disappointment. I would suggest you spend some time watching Pawn Stars or other similar shows which should enlighten you to the fact that just because something is old doesn't mean it's very valuable. Heck, I have stacks of vinyl from the early part of the 20th century that are literally worthless simply because there are lots of them out there and not enough collectors who want them. Common cartridges will be exactly the same way.

[FxMercenary]

Then the words "collecting" and "buying to play" should not be used interchangeably.

You were not "collecting" games, you were "buying to play", like you said.

No, If i just wanted to play, I would download the ROM, or buy it on Virtual Console. I do collect.

Do collectors not play?

I have been told many times by friends that Video games are simply "The coolest thing you could ever collect" because you can actually interact with your collection.

[FxMercenary]

Except that's exactly what you are trying to do. What we can do is apply reason and logic which you seem to be intent on completely ignoring. I can't believe that this whole thread was started over 195 games that on average are probably worth $5-$10 each on a good day. Let's assume you're correct and over three years you spent around $2K on these games and twenty years from now they double in value, grossing you $4K (which is very iffy for all of the many reasons everyone has posted above), with inflation avergaing about 2.7% annually (which is what it was from 1990 to 2010) you would make the equivalent of $600 not including all the time it will take to list them, any Ebay and Paypal fees (13% or more), the cost of storing them, moving them, etc....Not exactly a sum of money even worth thinking about given how long it will take you to realize the profit and how much effort would be involved.

Contrary to your claims, Americans rent more storage space and keep more junk than any other culture in the world and new storage units are being built and opened everyday. I also doubt most people are storing most of their stuff in damp or frozen/hot environments. Most people store things in closets or storage units which aren't perfect, but also aren't exactly cartridge killers.

I think of games as a hobby but the second you start trying to predict what will and won't become valuable, you are set up for disaster and disappointment. I would suggest you spend some time watching Pawn Stars or other similar shows which should enlighten you to the fact that just because something is old doesn't mean it's very valuable. Heck, I have stacks of vinyl from the early part of the 20th century that are literally worthless simply because there are lots of them out there and not enough collectors who want them. Common cartridges will be exactly the same way.

I prefer to call it a "Functional Collection" A collection that friends and I can enjoy, and collect as well. My "Collection" isn't piles of games and boxes, hidden away in closets and dresser drawers. Or walls and walls or hoarded titles. Its a true hobby, and a fun one at that.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/fxmercenary/Game%20Room/ngr4.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/fxmercenary/Game%20Room/GR2.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/fxmercenary/Game%20Room/ngr5.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/fxmercenary/Game%20Room/GR7.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/fxmercenary/Game%20Room/ngr7.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/fxmercenary/Game%20Room/ngr8.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/fxmercenary/Game%20Room/ngr2.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/fxmercenary/Game%20Room/ngr3.jpg

[98PaceCar]

The point that you are missing is that in and of itself, collecting is what we all do here. The difference is that nobody else is doing it with profit in mind.

Can profit be made? Absolutely!

Is it a guarantee or even likely? Not even on the best day possible.

If you are looking to make a profit, invest in something that has historically shown profits. Video games have not done this and in fact, have shown that there are a number of factors that can reduce what was once valuable to just a few dollars with little to no warning.

What you are proposing is nothing more than speculation and most of the time bites people in the ass. It may be possible that you could turn some profit, but more than likely when you factor in your costs of storage, fees/shipping associated with selling, and your time, there's very little money to be made and you'll likely be left with a lot of stuff that you can't get rid of without taking a loss. When you start doing dollar cost averaging, even if you hit a home run on 1 game, the other 99 that you can't sell drags your profit down into nothing. Finding something like an NWC or Air Raid at a flea market for $1.00 is possible, but not likely. Outside of that, your ROI is going to be horrible.

Buy games because you want to enjoy them. If you make some money on them somewhere down the road, that's great! But you really should listen to some of the more mature collectors that have been posting reasons why this isn't a good idea. Many of us have been there/done that and know how it really works out. Some get lucky, but they are the minority and even they rarely hit gold more than once.

[allyourblood]

If you're buying games at retail or eBay, then profits are oftentimes going to be slim. If you're buying used games locally at ultra-low prices, then profit is almost guaranteed. I don't have plans to sell my collection anytime soon, but, considering what I paid for most of it, I'm quite confident I'll see a nice healthy return if that day ever came. Just depends on what you've spent.

[PapaStu]

I prefer to call it a "Functional Collection" A collection that friends and I can enjoy, and collect as well. My "Collection" isn't piles of games and boxes, hidden away in closets and dresser drawers. Or walls and walls or hoarded titles. Its a true hobby, and a fun one at that.

There wern't piles of games there? I could easily point out piles of SNES and NES games. The collection sure looks like it's on walls and walls as well. So it's playable. So is mine. I've just got like way more than you. That however doesn't make it any less playable. I still can bust out my drum kit and have people over and have a good time playing games. My stuff is just as organized, as accessable and is played daily. I've just got enough stuff to play something new daily for years before I repeat.

You don't need to justify your collection by posting pics, but as 98Pacecar and others (including myself) have said, if you're looking to make it, be it selling now, right before that systems value crashes or holdingo out for 15 years to reap on the next wave of retro you're in for a sore surprise.


Precisely because the games you've got are the 'popular' ones, you're going to be hurting yourself. To the average gamer they'll have continued access to things like Mario who will have been put onto the GameCube DS 2 and Master Chief will have worked his way onto the NeXt Box 1080 and the PS6 full immersion all in one tv/game console will still be allowing people to rebuy those jawsum port of the PSOne's Ridge Racer. That continued access will be all that 95% of the gaming public will ever need. Those titles will still be there, and still be gettin played. At best I can't think of many zomg r@r3 or valuable Pac-Man games. Nor can I think of many Mario games that cover their MSRP spread 15 years later. I can't sell my copy of SMB 3 for what I paid for it when i was 8. I don't think i'll ever be able to get my ROI back on it. Nor would I expect to.

[calistarwind]

I only wanted to jump in here because I chuckled quite a bit at Papa Stu's lovely system names of the future. I would own a NeXt Box 1080.

[FxMercenary]

If you're buying games at retail or eBay, then profits are oftentimes going to be slim. If you're buying used games locally at ultra-low prices, then profit is almost guaranteed. I don't have plans to sell my collection anytime soon, but, considering what I paid for most of it, I'm quite confident I'll see a nice healthy return if that day ever came. Just depends on what you've spent.

Exactly, thank you. None of my games were bought MSRP. I think I paid 5 bucks for Mario 3, I can sell it for $20 right now, $80 in 15 years.

[Arcade Antics]

Exactly, thank you. None of my games were bought MSRP. I think I paid 5 bucks for Mario 3, I can sell it for $20 right now, $80 in 15 years.
http://nighthawknews.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/airplane.jpg
Recent sales of Mario 3 tend to discredit that $20 figure. More like $5-8 right now. Maybe $20 for the right buyer if it's complete and in excellent condition. Maybe.

And in 15 years? More like $1-2. That's the part you keep ignoring no matter how many different times it's been posted.

[bradd]

i used to have a huge collection of vintage games. i sold them all several years ago to get some equipment for my band, and since have only bought the few really good deals i find in the wild. i have some tabletops, an NES, N64, atari, etc. but what really changed for me is that i discovered emulation. the thing is, emulation is too easy and too perfect! i got a decent broken in sidewinder control from goodwill for $3 and almost never bother playing the actual systems unless i am showing off for somebody. its similar to my other hobby, collecting records. i have 5-7,000 records, when i want to listen to a song its usually easier to download it and play on the computer than to dig through stacks and stacks of records. records are also a good example of what is happening in the video game market, titles from the 50s and before used to be big money, now those collectors are dying so they arent worth squat. stuff from the 60s and 70s can be worth alot, but only if its really clean, like near mint, and desirable. i expect the same thing with video games, the only ones that will be worth anything will be either the ultra rare or ultra clean. regular used games wont be worth more than a buck or two regardless of what they are. i was a diehard fan and collector of original hardware for a long time, emulation was a game changer for me, i am sure it will be for many others as well. its also killing the market for full sized arcade games, the 48-in-1 bootleg boards from hong kong make having one game in one cabinet seem like a big waste of space to most people, throwing a bootleg board and LCD monitor is considered an upgrade from the original hardware to many people. i think its the games that are important to people, and emulation is the exact games, only the hardware is being emulated. its too perfect and way too free, as people become more computer savvy i expect all vintage games and consoles to drop in price. hang onto it all too long and you will end up like collectors who paid thousands for a couple arcade games in the 90s and now would be lucky to sell them for a couple hundred.

[bradd]

super mario 3

SOLD! $0.95
link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item2a0fbd9f0a&item=180652711690&nma=true&pt=Video_Games_Games&rt=nc&si=tcg8It0B%252BXwP4797IsARqwEr80s%253D)

SOLD! $1.30
link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item35b129e78a&item=230605580170&nma=true&pt=Video_Games_Games&rt=nc&si=tcg8It0B%252BXwP4797IsARqwEr80s%253D)

0 BIDS! buy it now $9.95
link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item1e62a8f65e&item=130504259166&nma=true&pt=Video_Games_Games&rt=nc&si=tcg8It0B%252BXwP4797IsARqwEr80s%253D)

[98PaceCar]

Exactly, thank you. None of my games were bought MSRP. I think I paid 5 bucks for Mario 3, I can sell it for $20 right now, $80 in 15 years.

What do you base your appreciation numbers on?

[Emperor Megas]

i used to have a huge collection of vintage games. i sold them all several years ago to get some equipment for my band, and since have only bought the few really good deals i find in the wild. i have some tabletops, an NES, N64, atari, etc. but what really changed for me is that i discovered emulation. the thing is, emulation is too easy and too perfect! i got a decent broken in sidewinder control from goodwill for $3 and almost never bother playing the actual systems unless i am showing off for somebody. its similar to my other hobby, collecting records. i have 5-7,000 records, when i want to listen to a song its usually easier to download it and play on the computer than to dig through stacks and stacks of records. records are also a good example of what is happening in the video game market, titles from the 50s and before used to be big money, now those collectors are dying so they arent worth squat. stuff from the 60s and 70s can be worth alot, but only if its really clean, like near mint, and desirable. i expect the same thing with video games, the only ones that will be worth anything will be either the ultra rare or ultra clean. regular used games wont be worth more than a buck or two regardless of what they are. i was a diehard fan and collector of original hardware for a long time, emulation was a game changer for me, i am sure it will be for many others as well. its also killing the market for full sized arcade games, the 48-in-1 bootleg boards from hong kong make having one game in one cabinet seem like a big waste of space to most people, throwing a bootleg board and LCD monitor is considered an upgrade from the original hardware to many people. i think its the games that are important to people, and emulation is the exact games, only the hardware is being emulated. its too perfect and way too free, as people become more computer savvy i expect all vintage games and consoles to drop in price. hang onto it all too long and you will end up like collectors who paid thousands for a couple arcade games in the 90s and now would be lucky to sell them for a couple hundred.Great post.


What do you base your appreciation numbers on?Wishful thinking?

[wingzrow]

I usually get $10.00 total ( with shipping )for loose mario bros. 3s, don't know if it's because I take pictures at multiple angles, or that I have an eBay store or what, but that's the going price.

Using one of the most common NES games as an example might be a bad idea though.

[pseudonym]

Exactly, thank you. None of my games were bought MSRP. I think I paid 5 bucks for Mario 3, I can sell it for $20 right now, $80 in 15 years.

Are you just pulling numbers out of the air, or can you back that up? You might be under the assumption that prices for NES games will continue to rise. They won't; just like the Atari 2600 a few years ago, the prices will eventually level out or drop, but the very rarest games will likely continue to go up.

[Rickstilwell1]

So... maybe it is a good idea for me to go back and get all those Atari games I like with boxes and manuals now. Then by the time I get back into NES (what I'm looking at now) the NES ones will actually be cheaper... since the Atari phase is supposedly over.

[Leo_A]

Exactly, thank you. None of my games were bought MSRP. I think I paid 5 bucks for Mario 3, I can sell it for $20 right now, $80 in 15 years.

You're in for a shock 15 years down the road.

[jonebone]

I was semi-with this guy until the Mario 3 comment lol.

The "populars" are fairly stable in value, IMO. Mario 3 is probably about a $10 game in today's market, and will likely hover in the $8-$12 range forever. It's not capable of becoming a $80 title because there are far too many of them in existance. At the same time, it's not going to drop to $1 because it's one hell of a game and beating it (or merely owning it) is worth more than $1 to most people.

Now that's not to say that there aren't auctions that end at 0.99 (plus shipping), or pathetically low. Sure some end low, likely due to stock photos, low feedback sellers, or just poorly listed. But you also have powersellers getting $15+ sometimes, so it evens out to around $10 like I'm guessing.

[fergojisan]

Nobody can predict the future and claim it will come true, until that day arrives.


I think I paid 5 bucks for Mario 3, I can sell it for $20 right now, $80 in 15 years.

Oops!

[TonyTheTiger]

The point that you are missing is that in and of itself, collecting is what we all do here. The difference is that nobody else is doing it with profit in mind.

Can profit be made? Absolutely!

Is it a guarantee or even likely? Not even on the best day possible.

This is really where it begins and ends. There's an old principle called selective observation. Casinos employ it. Winning is met with bells, whistles, and flashing lights. Losing happens silently. The same goes for video game profits. CNN runs stories on the select few people who high roll with Stadium Events. Nobody is posting news about how such and such game devalued over time. When only the winners get the spotlight it's easy to forget all the losers.

But even if we look at casinos...

You have a 1 in 38 chance of hitting a number in roulette with a payout of 35:1.

That buying Mario 3 at $5 and selling it for $80 in 15 years? That's 15 years for a 16:1 payout with probably worse odds than 38:1 given the immense number of games out there and the fickleness of demand. Much worse, even.

And since time is money and a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow, that $75 profit after a 15 year wait is looking mighty paltry by comparison. And that's even assuming it's guaranteed money.

Hell, if somebody told me to give them $5 right now and in 15 years they would return $80 to me, I'm not sure I'd take them up on it given what I can do with the $5 right now.

There's actually a formula for this:

Present Value = Future Cash Flow / (1 + Discount Rate)^Number of Years

So, for instance, on an $80 return over 15 years with a 10% discount rate (approximately the discount rate of the stock market):

Present Value = 80 / (1 + 10%) ^15

Present Value = $19.15. That means pay any more than that for Mario 3 and it's a sucker bet because you could do better with alternative investment avenues. In this case, the stock market. And again, that's assuming the $80 is essentially known.

Look what happens if the discount rate goes up to 25% (increased for the risk factor which is admittedly inexact as all hell and just a random number on my part).

Present Value = $2.81.

50%?

Present Value = $0.18.

What kind of gamble do you think video games will be? I don't know what the answer to that is but I'd imagine it's probably much, much worse than the stock market.

[calthaer]

TonytheTiger has it right. Ever hear of a little something called inflation? $80 will buy you a stick of gum in 15 years, at the rate things are going now. Buy the games to play; it's not an investment, really.

[TonyTheTiger]

For the record, I probably did that totally wrong. My math and finance skills are about as reliable as a Ford Pinto.

[calthaer]

I wasn't checking on the math, just agreeing with the general concept of your post, which is (unless I'm entirely mistaken): just because something is $15 today and will be worth $80 in 15 years doesn't necessarily mean that it increased in value, or, IF it did, that it increased in value as much (or more) as other investment vehicles would have over the same time period.

[WanganRunner]

If you REALLY wanted to buy games with the intent of sitting on them and making money WAY down the road, it could be done.

A NEW sealed black-label copy of FFVII is worth what, like $200?

In 1997 it cost...$50?

If you take that initial payment of $50 in 1997, assume zero cash flows in the interim, and show a "reversion" value of $200 in 2011, that comes out to a 10.409% IRR (average annual return).

That's actually pretty good. It's better than if you bought a broad basket of equities over the same period, for certain. It's not adjusted for inflation, but neither are the stock market returns and they're lower.

You just have to pick the right things to buy, and you have to leave them sealed. RPG's seem to be a safe bet, never any kind of "greatest hits", etc.

I'd never run these figures before. I'm tempted to go drop a few thousand bucks on several sealed cases of the next mainline Final Fantasy game (NOT XIV). People do the same thing with wine and it can pay pretty staggering returns.

[Snappaccino]

Collect games because you like to do it, if something unexpected happens down the road where games suddenly hold a higher value then consider that a bonus.

Don't collect in the hopes that maybe a cartridge monster rises up from the fires of hell in need of dirt common games to feed its hunger, that would in turn make the only few copies left of these games to fly through the roof in price.

[TonyTheTiger]

I wasn't checking on the math, just agreeing with the general concept of your post, which is (unless I'm entirely mistaken): just because something is $15 today and will be worth $80 in 15 years doesn't necessarily mean that it increased in value, or, IF it did, that it increased in value as much (or more) as other investment vehicles would have over the same time period.

Yeah, exactly.


If you REALLY wanted to buy games with the intent of sitting on them and making money WAY down the road, it could be done.

A NEW sealed black-label copy of FFVII is worth what, like $200?

In 1997 it cost...$50?

If you take that initial payment of $50 in 1997, assume zero cash flows in the interim, and show a "reversion" value of $200 in 2011, that comes out to a 10.409% IRR (average annual return).

That's actually pretty good. It's better than if you bought a broad basket of equities over the same period, for certain. It's not adjusted for inflation, but neither are the stock market returns and they're lower.

You just have to pick the right things to buy, and you have to leave them sealed. RPG's seem to be a safe bet, never any kind of "greatest hits", etc.

I'd never run these figures before. I'm tempted to go drop a few thousand bucks on several sealed cases of the next mainline Final Fantasy game (NOT XIV). People do the same thing with wine and it can pay pretty staggering returns.

That doesn't really work in reality though. FFVII is an anomaly. There's like a billion copies. Nobody could have ever predicted that which is why video games are a sucker bet. You pretty much have to get lucky. And your odds are so ungodly low because there are thousands of games out there and maybe a grand total of 9 or 10 ever hit the big time.

You buy 100 copies of Atlus's Brigandine for $50 each and keep them sealed in a closet for 15 years you quadruple your investment. You buy 100 copies of Atlus's Metal Saga for $50 each and keep them sealed in a closet for 15 years you just lost 80% of your investment.

FFVII is hot shit, FFVIII ain't squat. Suikoden is modest, Suikoden II is gold, Suikoden III is pocket change. Suikoden II and Vandal Hearts II both come out around the same time, both have a number of similarities in their general nature. Both probably had similar print runs. But Vandal Hearts II is worth about $30.

There's literally no pattern whatsoever. It just happens once in a blue moon. Is it really worth gambling on that once in a blue moon when the odds of getting a dud are so much higher? Like I said, you're better off playing roulette. Better odds, bigger payout, and it doesn't take over a decade.

[jonebone]

If you REALLY wanted to buy games with the intent of sitting on them and making money WAY down the road, it could be done.

A NEW sealed black-label copy of FFVII is worth what, like $200?

In 1997 it cost...$50?

If you take that initial payment of $50 in 1997, assume zero cash flows in the interim, and show a "reversion" value of $200 in 2011, that comes out to a 10.409% IRR (average annual return).

That's actually pretty good. It's better than if you bought a broad basket of equities over the same period, for certain. It's not adjusted for inflation, but neither are the stock market returns and they're lower.

You just have to pick the right things to buy, and you have to leave them sealed. RPG's seem to be a safe bet, never any kind of "greatest hits", etc.

I'd never run these figures before. I'm tempted to go drop a few thousand bucks on several sealed cases of the next mainline Final Fantasy game (NOT XIV). People do the same thing with wine and it can pay pretty staggering returns.

Except a VGA 90 Black Label FFVII actually sold for over $3,000 this year, a hell of a lot more return than $200 you estimate. Even ungraded copies without noticeable tears / cracks go for $500-$1,000 on average.

[TonyTheTiger]

Ignoring the VGA sales (which I'm convinced are mostly shills but that's for another topic), $500-$1000 must mean the game went though another massive spike recently. That's crazy.

[staxx]

As I mentioned before, WOW I didn't know that Video Games investing was better than buying GOLD. Hell I should also give up on White/Black Truffle harvesting and put all cash in Video Games. Stocks, 401K, Mutual Funds ain't got nothing compared to Video Games.......I WILL BE RICH... now just be patient for the next 15 years......f*ck why stop there, I'll wait 30 years and get much more. Trust thy GREED.

[staxx]

Ignoring the VGA sales (which I'm convinced are mostly shills but that's for another topic), $500-$1000 must mean the game went though another massive spike recently. That's crazy.

Taking a quick look on ebay for the black label, somehow I don't see much of a spike. Unless we are talking about Johnny Walker Black Label :)

[TonyTheTiger]

Well whatd'ya know! You are correct.

[FxMercenary]

As I mentioned before, WOW I didn't know that Video Games investing was better than buying GOLD. Hell I should also give up on White/Black Truffle harvesting and put all cash in Video Games. Stocks, 401K, Mutual Funds ain't got nothing compared to Video Games.......I WILL BE RICH... now just be patient for the next 15 years......f*ck why stop there, I'll wait 30 years and get much more. Trust thy GREED.

I wouldn't recommend that... I invested in silver 6 years ago at $8-9 per oz. Lets just say I am doing VERY well right now.

Gold, not so much, yeah it went up like 600 bucks, but Silver is better, because if currency fails, you can use silver bars and coins as currency for foods and other goods. Plus you would have to have a lot of money to invest when it comes to Gold.

(also, your exaggeration is a little overboard)

Again, TO PLAY NOW, and sell later at a profit. I am not playing 9000 copies of Mario 3 and Earthbound, just 1 each. Again, read the title. I am not taking about an investment, I am simply stating that I think that I will be able to sell what I currently own right now for more than I paid for it. And right now that statement is already true for me.

So quit trolling and going Full Retard about it.

[staxx]

I wouldn't recommend that... I invested in silver 6 years ago at $8-9 per oz. Lets just say I am doing VERY well right now.

Gold, not so much, yeah it went up like 600 bucks, but Silver is better, because if currency fails, you can use silver bars and coins as currency for foods and other goods. Plus you would have to have a lot of money to invest when it comes to Gold.

(also, your exaggeration is a little overboard)

Again, TO PLAY NOW, and sell later at a profit. I am not playing 9000 copies of Mario 3 and Earthbound, just 1 each. Again, read the title. I am not taking about an investment, I am simply stating that I think that I will be able to sell what I currently own right now for more than I paid for it. And right now that statement is already true for me.

So quit trolling and going Full Retard about it.

It's called having fun and having a sense of humor. After all it is the internet. Sure you could play it now and sell it later for a little profit. Some games you will make a profit and some you won't. The must important aspect is that you are playing them. As for a large part of my collection, it just sits there (until I have time to play them whenever that is). I glad you are happy with your collection, enjoy it till you sell it.

[Koa Zo]

Something that never gets mentioned in these discussions is the future value of the dollar.

Even if you were to make a profit on your games, the living expenses in America have increase drastically over the past decade. A pound of chicken cost nearly twice as much as 5 years ago. Gasoline is 3x what is was 10 years ago. Electricity, phone, and other utilities have increased substantially, etc.
So while you're sitting on those games hoping to make 10-20% profit or whatever, the value of your dollar has been dropping.

Collecting games is a great hobby, but to think of it as an investment is just deluding yourself.

[FxMercenary]

Something that never gets mentioned in these discussions is the future value of the dollar.

Even if you were to make a profit on your games, the living expenses in America have increase drastically over the past decade. A pound of chicken cost nearly twice as much as 5 years ago. Gasoline is 3x what is was 10 years ago. Electricity, phone, and other utilities have increased substantially, etc.
So while you're sitting on those games hoping to make 10-20% profit or whatever, the value of your dollar has been dropping.

Collecting games is a great hobby, but to think of it as an investment is just deluding yourself.

Thanks, also im not sitting on them, im playing what I have and will only buy what I want to play. I'm not looking or collecting FOR profit, I just think that in the future I will be able to.

[Oobgarm]

That doesn't really work in reality though. FFVII is an anomaly. There's like a billion copies. Nobody could have ever predicted that which is why video games are a sucker bet. You pretty much have to get lucky. And your odds are so ungodly low because there are thousands of games out there and maybe a grand total of 9 or 10 ever hit the big time.

You buy 100 copies of Atlus's Brigandine for $50 each and keep them sealed in a closet for 15 years you quadruple your investment. You buy 100 copies of Atlus's Metal Saga for $50 each and keep them sealed in a closet for 15 years you just lost 80% of your investment.

FFVII is hot shit, FFVIII ain't squat. Suikoden is modest, Suikoden II is gold, Suikoden III is pocket change. Suikoden II and Vandal Hearts II both come out around the same time, both have a number of similarities in their general nature. Both probably had similar print runs. But Vandal Hearts II is worth about $30.

There's literally no pattern whatsoever. It just happens once in a blue moon. Is it really worth gambling on that once in a blue moon when the odds of getting a dud are so much higher? Like I said, you're better off playing roulette. Better odds, bigger payout, and it doesn't take over a decade.

100% agree.

It seems to me like this is a troll post, honestly. The OP might not mean for it to be, but crapping on people's sound advice because THEIR idea is so awesome and THEIR idea is going to make them money is nothing but a huge waste of people's time and effort in trying to offer some kind of rational thought to the proceedings.

Isn't it time to say "alright dude, whatever?"

[TonyTheTiger]

Thanks, also im not sitting on them, im playing what I have and will only buy what I want to play. I'm not looking or collecting FOR profit, I just think that in the future I will be able to.

As long as you're enjoying the hobby right now, great. It's clear you're not walking into this like somebody who's going out to buy every RPG in GameStop and keep them sealed hoping to become a millionaire.

All we're saying is that if future value has anything to do with your purchasing decisions, you're far more likely to be disappointed than validated when that time comes to pass.

Plus, you might find yourself moving the goal posts. Right now you figure Mario 3 will be 16 times more valuable in 15 years. When 15 years pass and it's not that valuable you might decide to hold off for another 10 years because by then it would have to be worth a lot. It becomes an infinitely long waiting game.

[WanganRunner]

That doesn't really work in reality though. FFVII is an anomaly. There's like a billion copies. Nobody could have ever predicted that which is why video games are a sucker bet. You pretty much have to get lucky. And your odds are so ungodly low because there are thousands of games out there and maybe a grand total of 9 or 10 ever hit the big time.

You buy 100 copies of Atlus's Brigandine for $50 each and keep them sealed in a closet for 15 years you quadruple your investment. You buy 100 copies of Atlus's Metal Saga for $50 each and keep them sealed in a closet for 15 years you just lost 80% of your investment.

FFVII is hot shit, FFVIII ain't squat. Suikoden is modest, Suikoden II is gold, Suikoden III is pocket change. Suikoden II and Vandal Hearts II both come out around the same time, both have a number of similarities in their general nature. Both probably had similar print runs. But Vandal Hearts II is worth about $30.

There's literally no pattern whatsoever. It just happens once in a blue moon. Is it really worth gambling on that once in a blue moon when the odds of getting a dud are so much higher? Like I said, you're better off playing roulette. Better odds, bigger payout, and it doesn't take over a decade.


This is a good point. I'd be interested, however, to see how a blended portfolio would perform over ~15 years. Maybe I should do this as an MBA project :-P

[PapaStu]

I just want to throw out to everyone, that I will soon be starting a website.... It'll be called cash-4-games. Seeing that games have such a drawing today, i'll let you send in the games, and I'll give you straight cash homey for them! Forget about the potential future value of the games when i'll give you the 2k monies for them now! Just pop them into our convienient bubble mailers and our trained staff will look them over and let you know what we'll give you for them.

If you act now we'll also add an additional 35% bonus credit!

Don't wait! Act today!



I'm also w/ Oob on this one.