PSone Silver Bottom Games

[RPG_Fanatic]

Thanks to Dangerboy's web site http://game-rave.com/ Square-Enix released SILVER bottom RPG's for the PSone.
You can buy them from Squares online store http://store.na.square-enix.com/store/sqenixus/en_US/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryID.20396100/parentCategoryID.16256100

Does anyone think these will be worth anything down the road?

[cynicalhat]

the sale items from square's site look to be greatest hits versions.

[Dangerboy]

RPG is referring to the fact that the game discs themselves are Silver Bottom - not the standard black. At some point Sony started reprinting PS2 CD Media and PS1 games in Silver, not the black or dark blue / purple PS2 shades.

So far for the PS1, only 5 Square-Enix games (All on their site) have been confirmed. I know several PS2 games that have been confirmed as well, but their names elude me.

[Kitsune Sniper]

... Dude, did you stop updating the Twitter feed? I missed these last updates. :(

Edit: Also hopefully this means some companies will consider reprinting PS1 games for the newer generations. I doubt it though.

[Dangerboy]

Ack - I kind of forgot I had Twitter. ^^; FB gets updated regularly...

[Kitsune Sniper]

I don't use Facebook, I get enough spam as it is without them helping. :(

[kedawa]

Edit: Also hopefully this means some companies will consider reprinting PS1 games for the newer generations. I doubt it though.
I really doubt that too. It just doesn't make sense when they can just release them on PSN, especially since there are fewer working PS1 systems every day.

[Buyatari]

It is great that they are relisting and it will create a rarity for variation collectors but those were not the titles I was expecting when I heard a reprint was done.

So many other Square PS1 titles come to mind when I think of those needing a second run. Many dealers still have copies of those titles NIB.

[Emperor Megas]

I really doubt that too. It just doesn't make sense when they can just release them on PSN, especially since there are fewer working PS1 systems every day.AFAIK, ALL PlayStation consoles can play PS1 games.

[kedawa]

Not when their lasers are dead.

[Dangerboy]

Ked: I think it was more that PS2 and PS3's all play PS1 games. Not 100% but they do.

[Buyatari]

Ked: I think it was more that PS2 and PS3's all play PS1 games. Not 100% but they do.


Now isn't FF Tactics one of only 5-7 PS1 games with issues on a PS2?

Judge Dread.
um I forget what else one of the multi-game arcade discs but not Namco.

[Emperor Megas]

Now isn't FF Tactics one of only 5-7 PS1 games with issues on a PS2?I'm not sure, but do the few PS1 games that have playback issues on the PS2 also have issues when played on a PS3?

[Kitsune Sniper]

Now isn't FF Tactics one of only 5-7 PS1 games with issues on a PS2?

Judge Dread.
um I forget what else one of the multi-game arcade discs but not Namco.

... Huh? I own Judge Dredd, and it works just fine on my PS2. Maybe it depends on the model. I own a copy of Super Puzzle Fighter II X, and that won't boot... and The X-Files has a corrupted cursor, but works fine otherwise.

[kedawa]

Ked: I think it was more that PS2 and PS3's all play PS1 games. Not 100% but they do.
Yeah, all Playstation consoles play PS1 games. I was just ripping on the quality of the older hardware, and how unreliable optical drives are in general.

[123►Genei-Jin]

... Huh? I own Judge Dredd, and it works just fine on my PS2. Maybe it depends on the model. I own a copy of Super Puzzle Fighter II X, and that won't boot... and The X-Files has a corrupted cursor, but works fine otherwise.

I'm not sure how's the compatibility for each model, but I believe Slim PS2's use emulation to play PS1 games whereas Phat PS2's use hardware.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I'm not sure how's the compatibility for each model, but I believe Slim PS2's use emulation to play PS1 games whereas Phat PS2's use hardware.

Both slims and fats use hardware to run PS1 games - the PS1 CPU chip does the PS2's I/O operations and they use that to run PS1 games.

[theclaw]

I'm not sure, but do the few PS1 games that have playback issues on the PS2 also have issues when played on a PS3?

Early copies of FF5, US region at least, have the save menu sometimes look garbled on PS2. But retrying will eventually make it show up right.

On PS3 that same menu is broken as there's a high chance of crashing after a certain point in the game (I think when you get a 3rd party member?).

[Buyatari]

... Huh? I own Judge Dredd, and it works just fine on my PS2. Maybe it depends on the model. I own a copy of Super Puzzle Fighter II X, and that won't boot... and The X-Files has a corrupted cursor, but works fine otherwise.

Judge Dredd is the only title I knew for sure didn't work.

Here is the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_games_incompatible_with_PlaySt ation_2

These games are incompatible with all models of PlayStation 2 .

Arcade Party Pak [1]
Arcade's Greatest Hits/Atari 2 [1]
Fighter Maker [1]
Final Fantasy Anthology [1] (PlayStation 2 users can play this game, but sometimes experience a graphical error when saving)
Grandia (Game is prone to random freezing. Setting the sound to Mono instead of Stereo reduces, but does not eliminate, problems)
Judge Dredd [1]
Monkey Hero [1]
Mortal Kombat Trilogy [1] (only the "Greatest Hits" version (Platinum version in PAL regions) works on SCPH-50000, but even then the game freezes when the player wins the arcade mode)

[j_factor]

I'm not sure, but do the few PS1 games that have playback issues on the PS2 also have issues when played on a PS3?

Not necessarily. The PS3 uses full emulation for playing PS1 games whereas the PS2 uses hardware. Compatibility may not be 100% but it won't be the same games.

[goatdan]

Grandia (Game is prone to random freezing. Setting the sound to Mono instead of Stereo reduces, but does not eliminate, problems)

Aha!

I hadn't heard this, but I kept giving up on Grandia because I could never get it to work. Now I know -- try on an original PS1!

[Drath]

What? I heard the PS3 slim has no backwards compatibility whatsoever. Is this not the case? Everywhere I read it says NO PS2 or PS1 games at all.

[Zama]

What? I heard the PS3 slim has no backwards compatibility whatsoever. Is this not the case? Everywhere I read it says NO PS2 or PS1 games at all.

The current PS3 slims that are on the market do not have backwards compatibility with PS2 games. However, they do have backwards compatibility with PS1 games (some games work better than others though). In addition, if you have the PS2/PS1 memory card adapter that hooks up to the PS3, you can still store your game saves on the hard drive via their virtual memory card slots for safe storage :)

[Zing]

That list of PS2 incompatibility is obviously not complete. It is missing Tomba, which freezes every single time you try to load a game. I have confirmed this myself.

I suppose you could play through the game as long as you never try to load a saved game.

As for the OP, I thought all "Greatest Hits" PSone games were silver?

[theclaw]

You're thinking of the label side. Greatest Hits PSone games usually have simpler artwork. This topic refers to the data side.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

What? I heard the PS3 slim has no backwards compatibility whatsoever. Is this not the case? Everywhere I read it says NO PS2 or PS1 games at all.

Wherever you're reading it you're doing it wrong.

ALL PS3s have PS1 backwards compatibility. All of them.

You can even play PS1 games that are sitting in the disc tray while "remote play" operating your PS3 through your PSP over the internet.

[j_factor]

You can even play PS1 games that are sitting in the disc tray while "remote play" operating your PS3 through your PSP over the internet.

Have you actually tried that? It sounds like it would suffer from some serious lag.

[kedawa]

For PS1 games, I think it actually streams the game data, not just the I/O.

[squirrel_king]

Aha!

I hadn't heard this, but I kept giving up on Grandia because I could never get it to work. Now I know -- try on an original PS1!

strange, I played through Grandia with no issues on a PS2. mine is PAL though, maybe it's only an issue with the US version?

[Nz17]

Aha! I hadn't heard this, but I kept giving up on Grandia because I could never get it to work. Now I know -- try on an original PS1!

Dan, I must highly advise you that you should really give this game a proper play-through. Grandia is wonderfully charming and the kids in the game seem much more real than most video game characters. The engine is much like Xenogears with polygonal backgrounds with character sprites, all very good looking and well-animated by PSX standards. The art direction is very folksy and had a real feeling of tradition to its patterns. And the game's world and characters are permeated with a rustic, quaint charm that is reminiscent of Mega Man Legends and LUNAR. GameArts did good work.

I mean, this is the same game that I haven't played (I was trying to help my sister get started with RPGs using this and Chrono Trigger at the time.) but I bought *two* copies of the game when the first's second disc wouldn't work, and she had stopped playing the game years ago by then! Heck, I even have an EB Games Grandia promotional standee and the game's piano sheet music book from Japan!

[bcks007]

RPG is referring to the fact that the game discs themselves are Silver Bottom - not the standard black. At some point Sony started reprinting PS2 CD Media and PS1 games in Silver, not the black or dark blue / purple PS2 shades.

So far for the PS1, only 5 Square-Enix games (All on their site) have been confirmed. I know several PS2 games that have been confirmed as well, but their names elude me.

I think there could be 1 more possible silver back ps1 game in the future, or already out there. Not a square-enix game either. If Konami re-prints Metal Gear Solid from the Metal Gear Solid: The Essential Collection, we could see a silver disc from that set. It came out in march of 2008, and the silver discs for the ps2 started around June of 2008.

Since I do collect ps2 games and variants, I started a list of silver back games.

Game is only found on silver back: (11 total)
Army Men: Soldiers of Misfortune
CID The Dummy
Falling Stars
Ford Racing: Off Road
Garfield: Lasagna World Tour (This game is the 1st silver back) 6/27/08
Jeep Thrills
Namco Classic Fighter Collection - Tekken Tag Tournament
PDC World Championship Darts 2008
Pipe Mania
Professional Bull Riders: Out of the Chute
Women's Volleyball Championship

Games that got a silver back reprint: (10 games, so far....)
AMF Xtreme Bowling
Dance Factory
Future Tactics: The Uprising
Midnight Club: Street Racing (GH)
Mountain Bike Adrenaline
Raiden III
Rebel Raiders: Operation Nighthawk
Sea Monsters: A Prehistoric Adventure
Star Trek: Encounters
Strawberry Shortcake: The Sweet Dreams Game

Anybody find any others yet?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Have you actually tried that? It sounds like it would suffer from some serious lag.

LOL, yes, it's laggy. About a 1/2 second lag on the best settings, so you can't exactly play Street Fighter Alpha 3 or Skullmonkeys ... BUT it's totally fine for games that don't require 1:1 button input.

JRPGs, strategy games, point and clicks, etc, work great.

[Buyatari]

That list of PS2 incompatibility is obviously not complete. It is missing Tomba, which freezes every single time you try to load a game. I have confirmed this myself.

Tomba is on the webpage listed but somehow escaped the wrath of my cut and paste.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Judge Dredd is the only title I knew for sure didn't work.

... Then my Ps2 must be uberspecial, BECAUSE THE GAME WORKS PERFECTLY.

[j_factor]

Why would you want to play Judge Dredd? :p

[Kitsune Sniper]

Why would you want to play Judge Dredd? :p

It's a lightgun game.

[Xtincthed]

If i recall correctly Tombi (PAL version of Tomba) works fine on my PS2
do the problems start early in the game, or at random intervals?

[Nz17]

Tomba is on the webpage listed but somehow escaped the wrath of my cut and paste.

Don't worry - the source, the original Sony Web page, had it listed, but for whatever bizarre reason the WikiPedia page did not, so in the meantime I went and edited the page to add it. You didn't make the mistake, the page's previous contributors did.

[Zing]

If i recall correctly Tombi (PAL version of Tomba) works fine on my PS2
do the problems start early in the game, or at random intervals?

I'm not sure the PAL version had the problem.

It is 100% reproducible by simply attempting to load a game. It locks up every time.

[PapaStu]

It's Tomba! 2 that has the issues. It won't get out of the menus. Can't load or do anything.

[Zing]

Maybe it's both. I just know that Tomba did not work on my model 5000x PS2 (the last revision of the fat PS2). It would lock up when attempting to load a game, as expected.

[jesseashby27]

Does anyone have a clue about this CD? Not Bootleg, i don't have a clue about why this disc was printed this way?

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x137/autotech77532/IMG_1759.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x137/autotech77532/IMG_1757.jpg

[PapaStu]

Does anyone have a clue about this CD? Not Bootleg, i don't have a clue about why this disc was printed this way?



http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x137/autotech77532/IMG_1757.jpg


Is a bootleg. Look at the 'PlayStation' logo. It's a 'Players' logo, that has been ripped from the Indiana Pacers team logo. I've seen many of those boots before. Philippines or Hong Kong Silvers that be.

[jesseashby27]

why does it have 2Xtreme written in the center ring. looks to be done by a laser. also it plays in a ps1 without disc swap

[PapaStu]

Because it's a Hong Kong silver. It's a ripped game, that is basically a 1 for 1 copy of a real game.

It has 2Xtreme written in the center ring because thats what they do with this kind of bootleg. The discs are pressed, decent grade covers are slapped on the discs and they're sold in open air markets & shops.

Back in the PS heyday, I had a friend who went back to the Philippines to visit family. He came back with a TON of games, all had that Players logo on them, and they all cost him 1 buck apiece. They all looked semi real, and all played fine. This is just one of those games.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Whoa, wait - you mean those HK Silver games work on unmodded systems?

[jesseashby27]

thanks for the info. I was clueless and couldn't find this info anywhere else!

[PapaStu]

Whoa, wait - you mean those HK Silver games work on unmodded systems?


Normally they don't, but lord knows what they did to the code to make it potentially work on an unmodded system. The 'Players' games that I personally experienced, were all played on a modded system at the time, so I don't know if they'd have actually worked on a real system too.

[Gameguy]

I have a factory pressed bootleg of Suikoden II, I think it was a "Players" version as that logo looks familiar. I'll hook up a system and see if it plays on an un-modded system. It was just the disc in a loose system at a thrift store, I got it because I thought it meant that the system was modded(it was as it plays CD-Rs).

[Xtincthed]

Normally they don't, but lord knows what they did to the code to make it potentially work on an unmodded system. The 'Players' games that I personally experienced, were all played on a modded system at the time, so I don't know if they'd have actually worked on a real system too.

well I know that PS2 games get "recognised" by the system because they have bad sectors at the start (don't know the exact technical term)
these bad sectors can only be made with professional equipment, thats why you can't copy a PS2 game with your normal dvd burner

however if these bootlegs were professionally pressed, maybe they also had the gear to make those bad sectors on the disc, which makes them play on a normal system

[kedawa]

There's no way to burn those sectors to a disc, but any press can do it. The trick is creating the master.

[Gameguy]

I got around to testing my copy of Suikoden II on a non-modded system, it is a "Players" version and it doesn't boot up. With a CD-R game the system seems to start into the CD-Player, and with this pressed bootleg it displays a message saying "Please insert Playstation CD-ROM". I tested it on a model SCPH-1001, the earliest model available in North America.

So there you have it, the system needs to be modded for those "Players" games to work. And my disk does have Suikoden II printed on the centre ring like the copy of 2Xtreme that PapaStu described.

[Xtincthed]

I got around to testing my copy of Suikoden II on a non-modded system, it is a "Players" version and it doesn't boot up. With a CD-R game the system seems to start into the CD-Player, and with this pressed bootleg it displays a message saying "Please insert Playstation CD-ROM". I tested it on a model SCPH-1001, the earliest model available in North America.

So there you have it, the system needs to be modded for those "Players" games to work. And my disk does have Suikoden II printed on the centre ring like the copy of 2Xtreme that PapaStu described.

that proves your disc doesn't have those bad sectors
but i wonder if there ever were bootlegs pressed that did have this

[Gameguy]

that proves your disc doesn't have those bad sectors
but i wonder if there ever were bootlegs pressed that did have this
It's possible but I've never heard of any pirates that did this. Datel did it successfully with their Gameshark, those worked on unmodded systems.


From what I've found it is actually possible to make a CD-R with those sectors intact, though it takes a bit of work. This guy says he got it to work but it could be made up. Other sources say that the code is a part of the tracking pattern which is added during manufacturing and can't be written using a CD-R burner. I really can't confirm either way, I'm just going by the info I can find online.

http://baetzler.de/vidgames/psx_cd_faq.html


Anti-Copy Protection
The PSX compact disc copy protection is based upon the premise that most (if not all) CDRs and pressing stations pre-mastering processes will automatically regenrate a 'corrupt' sectors EDC/ECC code.
Sectors 12 through 15 contain a zeroised EDC/ECC checksum (impossible) so if the PSX reads and doesn't see an invalid EDC/ECC then it knows that the CD in the drive is a copy. (The EDC is simply a CRC type hash that is used as a checksum to determine if the sector was read correctly. The ECC is used to recreate the sectors data).

The entire range of sectors are written in a RAW format (2352 bytes) and are completely zeroed, even the XA sub-header and EDC/ECC are zeroed. When it is copied on a CDR, these sectors are exact, except for the EDC/ECC code which is (correctly) written as 0x3F13B0BC.

Note: The PSX compact discs have a black-polymer coating. This is not really an anti-copy protection mechanism. The black (actually, very dark blue) colour that is added to the polymer that covers the underside of the disc does very little to change the refraction of the light from the reading mechanism. It is really more of a visual aid in easily determining if a compact disc is pirated.

How to copy the disc with protection intact
The only way to succesfully duplicate this protection system is to obtain a modified set of firmware for your CDR unit that will either:

1. Allow you to write in either disc-at-once or track-at-once mode and not automatically 'correct' what it thinks to be corrupt sectors with invalid EDC/ECC codes.

2. Allow you to write the first track in RAW mode (2352 byte sectors, CD-DA) and then force the TOC to report the track as a CD-XA track.

I have a modified unit that does this (the first mothod), so it is possible if you have the technical knowledge and a suitable CDR unit.

[Xtincthed]

thats some interesting info :)
however as a collector I don't see the point in doing it, but it's cool to know it's possible

[KonnecT]

I just recieved a brand new copy of FF Anthology from Amazon. The CD's are Silver Bottom and are not compatible with the ps3. :(

[TubeBar]

It's possible but I've never heard of any pirates that did this. Datel did it successfully with their Gameshark, those worked on unmodded systems.


From what I've found it is actually possible to make a CD-R with those sectors intact, though it takes a bit of work. This guy says he got it to work but it could be made up. Other sources say that the code is a part of the tracking pattern which is added during manufacturing and can't be written using a CD-R burner. I really can't confirm either way, I'm just going by the info I can find online.

http://baetzler.de/vidgames/psx_cd_faq.html

That's old and has been proven false as ALL new CD Writers can do 2352 + TOC and Sub (RAW for Mode 2) thus a Zero EDC/ECC would be simple by basic text editing.

Due to research br CDfreaks and acording to the Sony patent the PSone protection is stamped in the Wobble which *cannot* be changed on CDRs but can be adjusted on CD-ROM during glass mastering stage. No way in hell to make a CDR that will boot as a real PSX CD-ROM disc.

PS3 Soft Modding has come a long way, look into that. Yeah I had looked into the PSone ports of FF4-6 and they are indeed emulated but the code is somewhat modified (no rom dumping here) so the emulation may not work properly on PS2/PS3 hardware.