Changing a SFC cart to play in English

[Hat Trick Hero]

:help: I sent an email to gamereproductions.com asking if it was possible to replace the ROM image on a SFC cart, with an English translated version, or an english patch. He doesn't have any experience with doing this however.

:confused: Are the SFC and SNES versions of games identical internally? I would assume so, and thus this saves the trouble of having to find a compatible donor cart, or having to buy extra parts, and have to solder. I've been reading up on repro carts, but have yet to hear if this is possible or not.

I spent close to 3 1/2 years in Okinawa JP, and amassed quite a collection. Unfortunately, language isn't my forte, so I doubt I'll ever be adept enough to actually play these games in their native language. I have seen a Starfox 2 on this site that had a switch to go from Japanese to English. If that is possible, that is what I would want the most, so someday I can attempt to play in Japanese.

I'm also curious how this would effect your save states. Would you be able to flip the switch mid game play, or would it be 2 separate batteries for a save in each language?

:puppydogeyes: Any info would be greatly appreciated. And especially if anybody knows someone who could do this for me. I'm willing to pay fair price for a rewrite, and even more for a dual language set up.

[Guntz]

You should ask Coinheaven on NintendoAge if he'd do this for you. Highly skilled at cart soldering he is.

Also, it's impossible for there to be a physical language switch, unless it's just a software option (very common).

[Satoshi_Matrix]

if it is possible to replace the ROM image on a SFC cart, with an English translated version, or an english patch.

What exactly do you mean by this? For instance, putting Final Fantasy V translation on a Final Fantasy V Super Famicom cartridge? The answer of course is yes.


Are the SFC and SNES versions of games identical internally?

Yes. Unlike the Famicom and NES, Super Famicom and SNES share the same pinouts and all other standards except for external shape of the shell. because Super Famicom games are smaller, they will fit into a US SNES with only minor modifications done to remove the otherwise useless internal tabs. Modifying a Super Famicom to accept US carts is a lot more involved simply to get the games to fit. It's entirely a physical issue.


thus this saves the trouble of having to find a compatible donor cart, or having to buy extra parts, and have to solder.

No, you'll still need a compatible donor cart, extra parts are required, and soldering is definitely required. The process of making an English reproduction of an existing game is to completely desolder one or more of the mask roms that are on the cartridge that hold the game code. Those are read only and cannot be rewritten, thus the need to replace them. Problem is that by the SNES era Nintendo was a huge company and could get custom chips made for their cartridges, which means an replacement EPROM containing the English version that romhackers have made will never be a drop in replacement part, and thus require careful rewiring and crossing pins. This process is difficult, tedious, and time consuming, which is why those who sell repros typically sell them for $60+. Not a simple task.



I have seen a Starfox 2 on this site that had a switch to go from Japanese to English. If that is possible, that is what I would want the most.
Star Fox 2 is an unreleased beta. I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to, but keep in mind that Star Fox 2 runs at 21mhz like other Super FX2 games such as Stunt Race FX, Doom, Yoshi's Island, etc. It can ONLY be reproduced using one of those donors. Star Fox 2 is also a real real bitch to reproduce. You're talking limited physical space mixed with the need to rewire pins that don't go to the correct places, so little wires are needed. about 80 of them. I never want to do a Star Fox 2 repro again in my life!



I'm also curious how this would effect your save states. Would you be able to flip the switch mid game play, or would it be 2 separate batteries for a save in each language?

No. This simply can't be done.

Hope this helps.

[Hat Trick Hero]

What exactly do you mean by this? For instance, putting Final Fantasy V translation on a Final Fantasy V Super Famicom cartridge? The answer of course is yes.

When you say yes to this, and no to it being a suitable donar cart, its sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Maybe I'm just getting confused though.


No, you'll still need a compatible donor cart, extra parts are required, and soldering is definitely required. The process of making an English reproduction of an existing game is to completely desolder one or more of the mask roms that are on the cartridge that hold the game code. Those are read only and cannot be rewritten, thus the need to replace them.

Since you can't reprogram the existing EPROMs, can you simply add one containing the english patch, and rewire/solder it in to change to English? The game code is already there, just need to change the language. Then if you wired it so you could connect and disconnect this EPROM, would you be able to switch the language back and forth? Or does the connection have to be continuous? Like old Christmas tree lights. One goes out, they all go out. I'm just trying to see if using the SFC version of what I want will be cheaper over all. And if I can get dual language, even better.


Yes. Unlike the Famicom and NES, Super Famicom and SNES share the same pinouts and all other standards except for external shape of the shell. because Super Famicom games are smaller, they will fit into a US SNES with only minor modifications done to remove the otherwise useless internal tabs. Modifying a Super Famicom to accept US carts is a lot more involved simply to get the games to fit. It's entirely a physical issue.

I'm primarily using my SNES with the tabs broken out for SFC games as well. Faster than switching back and forth between that and my Super Famicom. Sucks its not as easy the other way around though. :bawling:

[Gameguy]

Since you can't reprogram the existing EPROMs, can you simply add one containing the english patch, and rewire/solder it in to change to English? The game code is already there, just need to change the language. Then if you wired it so you could connect and disconnect this EPROM, would you be able to switch the language back and forth? Or does the connection have to be continuous? Like old Christmas tree lights. One goes out, they all go out. I'm just trying to see if using the SFC version of what I want will be cheaper over all. And if I can get dual language, even better.
The game comes on a ROM chip that can't be altered, the only way to change the game is to replace the chip with an EPROM that has the new altered game on it. If you wanted to switch between them I guess you could use socketed chips and just keep changing them back and forth, I'm not sure if anyone is willing to do this though.

The easiest way to switch between both versions is to just use a flash cart with both versions stored on it. Won't look as nice but probably much easier.

[Hat Trick Hero]

What about games that use multiple EPROMs? Do all of them have to be replaced? The main games I'm looking at getting are Tales of Phantasia, Bahamut Lagoon, Seiken Densetsu 3, Star Ocean, Final Fantasy V, Tactics Ogre, and Terranigma. I have the SFC version of all of these.

The Star Fox 2 with the language switch was made by Pootle, and can be seen here: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120604&highlight=repros&page=2

[Hat Trick Hero]

The game comes on a ROM chip that can't be altered, the only way to change the game is to replace the chip with an EPROM that has the new altered game on it. If you wanted to switch between them I guess you could use socketed chips and just keep changing them back and forth, I'm not sure if anyone is willing to do this though.

The easiest way to switch between both versions is to just use a flash cart with both versions stored on it. Won't look as nice but probably much easier.

What about games that have multiple ROM chips? Do they all need to be changed, or is the language contained on one? And what about all those wires? Can you at least avoid those, since the circuit board is for the same game?

I'm mainly looking at getting Tales of Phantasia, Terranigma, Bahamut Lagoon, Seiken Densetsu 3, Star Ocean, Final Fantasy V, and Tactics Ogre. I have them for the SFC already. This has to count for something, right?

Also, the dual language Starfox 2 I mentioned was made by Pootle, and can be seen here: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120604&highlight=repros&page=2

[Satoshi_Matrix]

When you say yes to this, and no to it being a suitable donor cart, its sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Maybe I'm just getting confused though.

You don't necessarily need the exact same donor, but it does need to be the same general boardset PCB type. Where NES is mapper hell with dozens of different specific donor boards needed, the SNES had a heck of a lot of games with specialized chips, and not just the usual suspects such as the DSP1 or Super FX chip. As long as you know the board requirements for your game you can use another game with the same chipset and get results.


Since you can't reprogram the existing EPROMs, can you simply add one containing the English patch, and rewire/solder it in to change to English? The game code is already there, just need to change the language.

No, you cannot add an EPROM to an existing mask rom game; you can only replace the mask rom. Oldschool games were very limited in their space allowance, so everything needed to be crammed in as tightly as possible, graphics sound text game code all of it all mashed together inbetween cpu cycles. That means that game code, graphical data and text are all stored in the same places, making it impossible to "just change the language" when it comes to physical forms. On emulators this isn't a problem because you can for instance, expand a 512KB Super Mario World into a 32MB Super Demo World and play it all the same. To do that in physical hardware is a completely different story, even if all you're doing is changing text from one script to another and addressing all areas where text is present with new text.

NES games for example are divided into two chips: PRG (program code) and CHR (graphics code). In order to put an English translation onto the Japanese copy of the same game where everything is the same but the text you still need to replace BOTH the PRG and CHR chips because of the tight programming.


Then if you wired it so you could connect and disconnect this EPROM, would you be able to switch the language back and forth?

The only way of doing that would be to add a chip socket and physically remove the EPROM and replace it with the mask rom, but even doing that would be incredibly difficult and likely also mean rewiring and resoldering as EPROMs are off the shelf parts with standard pinouts, but SNES mask roms are custom parts with irregular pinouts to thwart piracy back in the day and make people who can do SNES repros as miserable as possible. That or add a switch wired to BOTH EPROM and mask rom and be super careful never to touch it while the game is on unless you like the idea of blowing both chips. To do either option would be pretty nuts in my view.

Bottom line is that it would be so difficult to do that nobody in their right mind would. Just buy two copies of the same game if you need them in multiple languages, or as suggested by Gamerguy, use a flashcart such as Retrozone's Super Powerpak. hardware, switch controlled duel language carts are virtually impossible so you really ought to forget about that.

If you want to play your translations while keeping your Super Famicom games intact, I recommend the Powerpak. It's a really neat device. Just note that it doesn't run anything that used a super special chip. Check the short list of incompatible games on the Super Powerpak's main page.

http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?products_id=84


What about games that have multiple ROM chips? Do they all need to be changed, or is the language contained on one? And what about all those wires? Can you at least avoid those, since the circuit board is for the same game?

Typically SNES game code is stored on only one mask rom. The others are for things like SRAM, additional hardware like DSP1 to help with scaling and rotating, logic gates, etc. Only one chip needs to be replaced in all SNES repros I've done or seen done.



I'm mainly looking at getting Tales of Phantasia, Terranigma, Bahamut Lagoon, Seiken Densetsu 3, Star Ocean, Final Fantasy V, and Tactics Ogre.

LOL. Only those? Sorry I just think that's funny that you're only after the absolutely most difficult, largest EPROM requiring games on the system. Phantasia, Bahamut, Seiken 3 and Star Ocean in the same sentience? good lord you must have a pretty penny to drop on repros!



Also, the dual language Starfox 2 I mentioned was made by Pootle, and can be seen here: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120604&highlight=repros&page=2

Cool thanks for the link. As I suspected, that thing looks like a reproduction nightmare. To do that would be absolutely insane. SegaAges must love making his life more difficult! lol

[Hat Trick Hero]

Ok, I guess I'll give up on the dream of a dual language SNES cartridge (at least at an affordable price). The reason I was asking is because, no, I don't have a pretty penny to drop on repro's, but I thought I may be able to avoid some of the production cost by using the same game in SFC form.

I like the feeling of owning each game I play. Emulator's do a fine job solely for playing purposes. If it weren't for ZSNES I'd never even know how much fun these games really are.

The downside with ROMs and Emulators, is you don't get any satisfaction of showing others what you have, or even taking it to a friends house to play on their system. I don't really care for the idea of the powerpak either for the same reason. Its basically a fancy emulator that you hook up to your TV through the original hardware. Cool yes, but I think I'll save up for repros. At least my favorite ones anyway. If I ever have enough time to really waste on thousands of SFC and SNES games, then I may reconsider the powerpak.

[dendawg]

You could always buy one of these (http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=84) and download the english patched roms. AFAIK it supports everything but Super FX, SFA2 and Mario RPG. Cheaper than buying repros and saves carts for other projects.

[Parodius Duh!]

in order to make a repro you need new eproms and lots of wires and soldering skills, you simply can not erase the game data and replace it with new data, even if its the same game just translated.