Women Remain the Ignored Audience In Gaming [Slashdot] [Archive]

DP ServBot

06-22-2011, 11:48 AM

donniebaseball23 writes "Research firm Interpret has released its new report, 'Games and Girls: Video Gaming's Ignored Audience,' which finds that while the female audience in gaming has grown, games tailored to their needs and preferences continue to go missing. Women represent 50% of the market and their usage of HD consoles like Xbox 360 and PS3 is rising. 'It remains to be seen whether developers and marketers will effectively invest in understanding and exploiting the undertapped female gaming market,' said Courtney Johnson, analyst for Interpret."http://a.fsdn.com/sd/facebook_icon_large.png (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgames.slashdot.org%2Fsto ry%2F11%2F06%2F22%2F0322226%2FWomen-Remain-the-Ignored-Audience-In-Gaming%3Futm_source%3Dslashdot%26utm_medium%3Dface book) http://a.fsdn.com/sd/twitter_icon_large.png (http://twitter.com/home?status=Women+Remain+the+Ignored+Audience+In+G aming%3A+http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2FjBuhO1)

Read more of this story (http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/06/22/0322226/Women-Remain-the-Ignored-Audience-In-Gaming?utm_source=rss1.0&utm_medium=feed) at Slashdot.

http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/jPQp0FpahqL-hlzqrksHo4agS2g/0/di (http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/jPQp0FpahqL-hlzqrksHo4agS2g/0/da)
http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/jPQp0FpahqL-hlzqrksHo4agS2g/1/di (http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/jPQp0FpahqL-hlzqrksHo4agS2g/1/da)

http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Slashdot/slashdotGames/~4/MIi6fAlYsaM

More... (http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotGames/~3/MIi6fAlYsaM/Women-Remain-the-Ignored-Audience-In-Gaming)

Rickstilwell1

06-22-2011, 02:01 PM

kupomogli

06-22-2011, 02:12 PM

The "not enough games are developed for women" argument is bs. RPGs, platformers, etc, are all tailored for women as well as men. Just because 90% of the games out there are first person shooters doesn't mean even all male gamers are fans of the genre. It just means that first person shooters make the most money so developers are going to continue to milk the genre.

Damaramu

06-22-2011, 03:57 PM

My wife would spend some time farming on Harvest Moon, tear up the road in Burn Out, and hack the shit out of monsters in various dungeon hack style games (Baldur's Gate, etc.) She routinely kicks my ass at Dr. Mario.

Only thing I can't get her into are first person shooters (makes her motion sick) or fighting games. Well...she did like Soul Calibur.

ubersaurus

06-22-2011, 05:56 PM

The funny thing is that girls are so different from each other, that is really a hard thing to define. Often times the reason they are picking up more of what is currently available is because it already interests them. Some girls love the long RPGs, some like to blow things up in shooters just like the average guy, and some like the more simplistic arcade/pac-man kinds of games or the usually enjoyed by everyone first party Nintendo character games. Their preferences are just as diverse as men. Usually most of the games that are designed just for girls appeal only to the female kids.

By your argument men are so different from each other that it's hard to define what would appeal to men as a whole. Which is true, but you still see games that are targeted to various male interest groups.

I think the real point here is that you don't see many games that feature female leads that aren't there for sex appeal or to be damsels in distress. Or maybe they're the hero, but they're still kinda weak compared to other characters. I'm thinking a character like Jade from Beyond Good & Evil, Portal's Chell, Mass Effect's FemShep, or pre-Other M Samus as really worthwhile female characters. On the other side of the spectrum you have pretty much any fighting game female, or Princess Peach, etc. Or, perhaps it's a game that is definitely more bro-y like Call of Duty. Yeah, women play all these games, but they definitely are not the target demographic here. They're not even a tertiary demographic. Hell, look at Duke Nukem Forever; the game goes so far in the opposite direction or diversity I know guys who are not comfortable with it.

Robocop2

06-23-2011, 12:17 AM

Well either no one thinks that girl gamers are a profitable enough market; or they haven't really seen a way to cater to that demographic. IF females make up that large of a percentage of the gaming populace (my personal feeling and experience is that number is inflated somewhat) and they are still buying what is out there what needs to change exactly?

Rob2600

06-23-2011, 12:35 AM

I'm thinking a character like Jade from Beyond Good & Evil, Portal's Chell, Mass Effect's FemShep, or pre-Other M Samus as really worthwhile female characters.

Also Joanna Dark in Perfect Dark, Marina Liteyears in Mischief Makers, Carrie in Castlevania and Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness, and Yae in Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon and Goemon's Great Adventure (all N64 games).

mike_the_red

06-23-2011, 12:36 AM

I have to wholeheartedly disagree, actually.

I think women are the up and coming major market for the big business developers.

First of all, we're seeing games for women much more frequently than we saw in the 90s. When Gameboy first came out, did we have games like Cooking Mama, Project Rub, Nintendogs or Bratz?

There may have been 2 or 3 titles for 90s systems which were tailored for girls and they certainly didn't have the commercial success of the games targeting girls now.

The fact is that girls in the video game industry behave a lot like girls in any other entertainment industry-

They emerge as stronger buyers after the social stigma with the medium has been dropped. In another few years, girls will be stronger buyers than even men. (See: N'SYNC/BSB phenomenon)

There will always be exceptions. There will be girls who prefer deeper, better games but I have a feeling they're the minority. I feel bad for those girls as I feel bad for male gamers who get nauseated when they see yet another historical fiction FPS with poor acting and a carrot in the shape of a medal dangling from the end of a flagpole.

LaughingMAN.S9

06-23-2011, 01:10 AM

imo these bitches are doing entirely too much gaming as it is and nowhere near enough cooking

these cheese sandwiches aint gonna grill themselves b....wtf bro :(

allyourblood

06-23-2011, 01:46 AM

First of all, we're seeing games for women much more frequently than we saw in the 90s. When Gameboy first came out, did we have games like Cooking Mama, Project Rub, Nintendogs or Bratz?

Are these your first choices for games that are "for women"? Bratz? Really?

ubersaurus

06-23-2011, 01:52 AM

Are these your first choices for games that are "for women"? Bratz? Really?

Haha, right? I don't think I know that many women gamers who are into those. More FPSs and shmups and RPGs and fighters than "Cooking Mama." If anything those are games for little kids or just about anyone interested in the genre.

Quite frankly that's kind of an insult to women gamers.

Icarus Moonsight

06-23-2011, 03:10 AM

Sexism bawing is crying over the genitals you were dealt. Inward rage projected outward.

If I can wear a dress, a woman can play DNF.

The 1 2 P

06-23-2011, 03:56 AM

IF females make up that large of a percentage of the gaming populace (my personal feeling and experience is that number is inflated somewhat) and they are still buying what is out there what needs to change exactly?

This was my thought too. The majority of female gamers that I play with over XBL or that I know personally could care less about how games are marketed or not marketed towards them. They just want to game like the rest of us guys. And as someone already eluded to, their personal taste are as diverse as ours are. Do they prefer playing as female avatars? Most seem to but they are also content with playing as the default male avatar, especially if they have no other choice.

mike_the_red

06-23-2011, 04:02 AM

Are these your first choices for games that are "for women"? Bratz? Really?

I just picked whichever games illustrated the point best.

If your contention is that they're marketed to young girls and not women, okay, you're right. I didn't realize we were making the distinction between young girls and adult women in this thread.

But if you're trying to imply that they're marketed to men... well, that's just nonsense, sorry.

They're clearly marketed to females.

calthaer

06-23-2011, 10:25 AM

There is great potential for flame in this thread, so must tread carefully...but at least I'm in before any potential lock.

My wife likes to play one game, and one game only: Donkey Kong Country. This was the only good game she had the opportunity to play growing up; her brother apparently hogged the N64 or whatever system they had, and her family wasn't too wealthy.

I have a ton of games, but she doesn't seem to want to play them too much - she just wants to watch (except for Donkey Kong Country). I can't understand it, really...DKC can be kind of difficult, as a platformer - there are so many other, easier games that I'm sure she'd enjoy. She just doesn't want to try. She likes to watch me play Lost in Blue / 2 - maybe I need to get a second copy so that we can "survive together." But when I mention this possibility, she demurs - maybe she's just into DKC for the nostalgia factor.

She readily admits she'd much rather have coffee or tea with a few good friends than play a game. She also seems to like board games more, because she can play with other people. Maybe she's not into the single-player games.

It's possible that, for some women, solo play versus a machine doesn't really do it for them.

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-23-2011, 10:50 AM

While there are certainly many many games that pander in a "traditional" testosterone/machismo way to the teen male demographic, I've always been of the opinion that a well designed/fun to play game will transcend any gender specificity potentially intended by the designers/producers.

ie, if something is good, most people (men and women) will like it.

...Kind of like watching My Little Pony. :onfire:

skaar

06-23-2011, 10:54 AM

ie, if something is good, most people (men and women) will like it.

...Kind of like watching My Little Pony. :onfire:

Bronie!

I outed you.

calistarwind

06-23-2011, 05:53 PM

Speaking as a woman who plays games I'm really tired of these types of topics. I have worked video game retail for near 15 years and have watched the change happen. When I first started out men (even some woman) would down right ignore me to talk to a man. After a bit of this I became more assertive and made it known that I too play RPG's and action games and soon I started to have exclusive customers (based on my knowledge) that would only talk to me about what games to buy.

I too had some growning to do. When you work with all males, even as a woman you start to assume that the woman across the counter is buying for a boyfriend or husband. Once I stopped assuming I found out more and more woman were playing but they enjoyed it more when their boyfriend/husband were not at home. However online they are a gamertag and not sitting next to someone in the same room and could be just as great as any man.

I really feel when we quit addressing the gender specific issue, you will find people regardless of gender enjoy what they enjoy.

Emperor Megas

06-23-2011, 06:46 PM

The majority of female gamers that I play with over XBL or that I know personally could care less about how games are marketed or not marketed towards them.How much less could they care, exactly? :|

iamangel

06-24-2011, 12:28 AM

This market is where the video game companies missed a huge opportunity for many years. In fact, it is still an underserved market. When will the video game companies wake up and see the need to serve this unfulfilled need?
__________________
Women like to play with FurReal Friends Cookie (http://www.squidoo.com/furreal-friends-cookie) or furreal gogo my walkin pup (http://hubpages.com/hub/FurReal_GoGo_My_Walkin_Pup). Give me halo anyday.

Aussie2B

06-24-2011, 01:54 AM

I'd like to know just how they define "games tailored to their needs and preferences". And why it's believed that certain game design can be targeted to women as a whole, as if they all share a like mind, while male gamers are viewed as all having different tastes and preferences (if you've ever made or replied to a topic asking "What games would my girlfriend/wife like?" without sharing or asking about the woman's interests/experience, you're guilty of this).

If this means more games bathed in pink, centered around fashion or shopping or whatever, no thanks; I'll keep playing my "man games".

Gameguy

06-24-2011, 02:29 AM

I'm kind of surprised there would be a difference, I would think just making a good game would appeal to just about everyone under most circumstances.

Why are Mario games so popular? You're playing as a fat Italian plumber who battles turtles in a magical land while riding a cute dinosaur, it's kind of the opposite of games like Duke Nukem which have a macho man blasting everything while womanizing as he goes. Yet Mario is still more popular. Remember the games aimed specifically towards men? Custer's Revenge, The Guy Game, Leisure Suit Larry, Rapelay, etc. Those all suck and nobody likes to play them, at least most people don't like them. It's pretty much the same thing with most games aimed at women.

Think of movies. There's the stupid movies made to appeal to certain genders but they don't really hold up, you've got the mindless action movies for the men or mindless romantic comedies for the women. The stuff with actual plots is what wins the awards and gets remembered as really popular films. There's The Adventures of Robin Hood with Errol Flynn, tell me if that's a film for men or women. There's sword fights, some stunts, yet some romance too. It's pretty much neutral. Same with The Princess Bride or any of the Harry Potter stuff, you can't really say they're meant for one gender specifically.

There is a bit if a difference in what each gender likes to do, but you can't really compensate for that by altering your products too much. It's like baking, is that considered to be equally popular between men and women? Not really, though there's nothing wrong with men baking. Look at shows like Cake Boss, men bake and it doesn't seem odd yet I don't think most men like to bake. No company is making Chuck Norris bakeware to increase sales to men, it just won't work.

Snapple

06-24-2011, 02:32 AM

Although women gamers are a lot more common these days, I find the "50%" statistic to be very dubious.

Unless you're counting Farmville to be part of video games, in which case fuck the survey.

The 1 2 P

06-24-2011, 03:02 AM

How much less could they care, exactly? :|

They just don't care....period. I've never heard them complain that their favorite games didn't have ads in Cosmo(or whatever their favorite magazine is) or show up during commercial breaks of Desperate Housewives(or whatever their favorite shows are). It's all irrelevant to them because they just want to game and alot of their favorite games are ones that aren't marketed towards them at all(like Gears or COD).

Rob2600

06-24-2011, 08:05 AM

Desperate Housewives

see my next post...

Cornelius

06-24-2011, 10:01 AM

Think of movies. There's the stupid movies made to appeal to certain genders but they don't really hold up, you've got the mindless action movies for the men or mindless romantic comedies for the women. The stuff with actual plots is what wins the awards and gets remembered as really popular films. There's The Adventures of Robin Hood with Errol Flynn, tell me if that's a film for men or women. There's sword fights, some stunts, yet some romance too. It's pretty much neutral. Same with The Princess Bride or any of the Harry Potter stuff, you can't really say they're meant for one gender specifically.

I think this is the point, though. The industry is wondering how it can make the video game equivalent of a chick flick. You are right that this won't necessarily result in a good game, just as most chick flicks are soon forgotten, but they do make a lot of money.

The real problem I think is that there is still a stigma of this being an anti-social pursuit. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that in general women are more social creatures than men, so that perception really hinders getting women started.

Icarus Moonsight

06-24-2011, 10:09 AM

I heard recently that the majority of Otaku in Japan are now female.
Be careful what you wish for.

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-24-2011, 10:23 AM

... Custer's Revenge, The Guy Game, Leisure Suit Larry, Rapelay, etc. Those all suck and nobody likes to play them, at least most people don't like them. It's pretty much the same thing with most games aimed at women...

Not to de-rail the topic, but Lumping the Leisure Suit Larry series in with socially repugnant software like Custer's Revenge and Rapelay is a bit harsh.

There's nothing in those that you wouldn't find in any R-Rated movie comedy, and generally there's far more satire in those games than there is real nudity or sex.

Also, there wouldn't be 8 entries in the series if people "didn't like to play them".

Rob2600

06-24-2011, 10:53 AM

Desperate Housewives

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/2621789086_9df085cd8c.jpg
photo taken at the Digital Press store in Clifton, NJ 6/28/08 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/goodrob13/2621789086/)

:)

Sailorneorune

06-24-2011, 12:35 PM

I heard recently that the majority of Otaku in Japan are now female.
Be careful what you wish for.

If this is indeed the case, now is a good time for Phoenix Wright anime. :popcorn:

Also speaking as a female who likes games, I really don't care if we're swamped with ads geared towards us or if a developer decides to make an interactive romantic comedy. (A game like that would probably suck, anyway.) I enjoy games that are fun. Mario, Sonic, Zelda, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Pokemon, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton... just to name a few. I was there when the industry was oversaturated with "mascots with attitude" games, and I'm now enduring the oversaturation of the industry by "revenge of the brown shooter" games. "Girl games" such as Imagine: Gold Digger (not a real title... yet) stink up the portable market. Annoying trends do not appear to be going away any time soon, so all we can do is vote with our wallets. Give me Portal 2 and Sonic Generations over Desperate Housewives any day.

Aussie2B

06-24-2011, 01:09 PM

How are they defining "otaku" there? In the Western way of "someone who is obsessed with anime/manga/whatever product from Japan" or in the proper Japanese way of "a creepy person obsessed with those things that never leaves home and probably has mental problems"? A lot of people in the West wear "otaku" as some sort of badge of honor, but it literally means "your home" and is a negative thing in Japan.

Sailorneorune

06-24-2011, 01:41 PM

I was thinking the definition "insane fans who have no problem spending $100 on a figure, and thus get anime franchises tailored to them and them alone because they have more money than brains". Now that I think about it, I'd rather not have something like Gyakuten Saiban whored out to people who will pour tens of thousands of yen for the Super Deluxe Limited Edition Shirtless Edgeworth with Kung-Fu Grip (only 200 pieces made!), because anything that comes out of pure otaku money usually isn't worth a shit (see Heaven's Lost Property, Those Without Wings, or any other pandering based-on-an-eroge show that Funimation or Sentai has picked up in the last 3 years).

(I like my forums like I like my coffee - bitter and off-topic.)

portnoyd

06-24-2011, 01:52 PM

I agree with mike_the_red. From my perspective, those titles are definitely aimed at women.

Achika, who used to post on these boards and is my wife, who has a complete DC collection among several thousand other games even before we got married, in recent years has played more of the "women oriented" games mentioned before. She has played through all 3 Cooking Mama DS games, is hooked on those Hidden Mysteries DS games and is almost up to date on all of the Lego titles. All fare that would be categorized as vagina friendly.

She used to be like Aussie2B in her choices of games but she just gravitated away. Seeing how horrendous FF13 was while I played it went a long way towards her swearing off Japanese RPGs altogether. She does still play select mancore games - she tried Dragon Age (hated it), is going to start LA Noire shortly (this was a no brainer as she watches Law & Order like Lindsay Lohan snorts coke) and plays DJ Hero. However, she mostly tends to more casual gaming.

I don’t think it’s a case of her becoming more aligned with the “women’s market” this article claims to be on the down swing. She’s always had pink systems and always wanted pink systems. Cute things were always fair game. It’s just that for me as a guy, I just don’t feel the hook that all that stuff clearly has for her.

Speaking of a hook, can’t not mention that she does have 5 level 85s in WoW and her main has 164 pets. Pets! WoW's version of women oriented gaming.

skaar

06-24-2011, 02:07 PM

I think for the most part the gaming industry's attempts to target games at women have been about on par with the film industry's attempts to target the "urban" demographic in the 70s.

And sometimes just as sad. (or offensive if you're the type to be offended by stupidity) ;)

So what's the word for female "blaxsploitation"?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/Shaftposter.jpg http://www.impawards.com/1973/posters/shaft_in_africa.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IC_2UiBmwO8/TCua22q_qXI/AAAAAAAAAxE/4PxxkRXyiSw/s1600/THE+BLACK+GESTAPO.jpg

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/blaxploitation/zebra-killer.jpg

portnoyd

06-24-2011, 02:29 PM

So what's the word for female "blaxsploitation"?

Vaginateering?

Gameguy

06-24-2011, 02:37 PM

I think this is the point, though. The industry is wondering how it can make the video game equivalent of a chick flick. You are right that this won't necessarily result in a good game, just as most chick flicks are soon forgotten, but they do make a lot of money.
It probably would still bring in money like those chick flicks do, and some of those films can be good. Licensed games seem to bring in money too though people think most of those also suck.

Not to de-rail the topic, but Lumping the Leisure Suit Larry series in with socially repugnant software like Custer's Revenge and Rapelay is a bit harsh.

There's nothing in those that you wouldn't find in any R-Rated movie comedy, and generally there's far more satire in those games than there is real nudity or sex.

Also, there wouldn't be 8 entries in the series if people "didn't like to play them".
I mostly included Leisure Suit Larry as it wasn't as bad as the obvious Custer's Revenge or Rapelay and plenty of people would tell me why those other adult games weren't major sellers besides being aimed at men(those are pure trash). Still Leisure Suit Larry was never as popular compared to Mario or Sonic games and it's mostly a series viewed today with cult status at best.

I personally hate R-Rated comedies so maybe that's why I dislike the series, I just never got into them. Same with Two and a Half Men, I hate that show. Just write a few cheap sex jokes and everyone laughs. I don't understand why this type of humour is so popular.

portnoyd

06-24-2011, 02:53 PM

allyourblood

06-24-2011, 05:25 PM

I personally hate R-Rated comedies so maybe that's why I dislike the series, I just never got into them. Same with Two and a Half Men, I hate that show. Just write a few cheap sex jokes and everyone laughs. I don't understand why this type of humour is so popular.

I couldn't agree with you more!

My wife plays a few games -- mostly racing and CivRev, but occasionally fighting games too -- and she scoffs at the "games tailored to women" thing. The big budget titles being produced today are quite unisex. Just because your game doesn't star a "strong female lead" doesn't mean that women can't derive just as much enjoyment from it.

One thing I'm sick of is the amount of flag-waving and moaning over games with females sporting "perfect" figures, running around in skin-tight outfits. Reality check folks: Most games star men with perfect figures in skin-tight outfits. That isn't really a realistic representation of the average male gamer, either. There's a lot of oversexualization and fantasy at play on both sides of the fence.

As mentioned before, people will vote with their dollars. There's no need to go around trying to force a female-centric game on people. If female gamers are such a large demographic now (supposedly outnumbering males), it's pretty obvious they're finding plenty of games to enjoy on today's market, without any needless pandering and focus-grouping.

Letiumtide

06-24-2011, 05:47 PM

It's not really games for girls that is the issue so much as games that exclude girls. There are many MANY gender neutral games out there that don't really lean one way or the other, or if they do it's only slightly to one side. RPGs are often this way, Platformers, etc also tend to stay gender neutral.

Exception is generally taken when games lean heavily on the male spectrum with a "no girls allowed" sign more or less hung on the game case. Generally this has little to do with the male lead being manly, but more to do with the women being hyper sexualized. Men will cry "but men are sexualized too!" but not in the same way. You never see a male character that is obviously being sexualized in the sense that they appear receptive to sex. Skimpy clothing, sexual poses and even sexualized facial features (mouth open, heavy breathing, blushing, big lips) are all subtle visual cues that indicate that somebody is interested in sex. Features you never see on men, but are dominant for women in video games.

Men seem to say that men are over sexualized, but really it's just what is considered heroic traits. For men, these traits include broad shoulders, slender waist and hips, large legs and arms, and thick hair.

It's not exactly fair, but nobody really thinks about it in that way.

Also I would not put Other-M Samus Aran as a strong female character. She is a very, VERY weak character who very strictly follows orders as she is told, which is ridiculous because she's a bounty hunter. There has been a ton of controversy on her character writing being sexist.

I didn't mean to trail into a mini-rant here, but there is more out there to think about than "games for girls" which is really the problem with what's seen today as girls and gaming, it's really just the wrong approach to the whole thing.

Guys and girls aren't THAT different when it comes to what games we like, the only difference is that women will sometimes shy away from games that have sexualized women in them. Not because they don't like to play games.

allyourblood

06-24-2011, 06:08 PM

You never see a male character that is obviously being sexualized in the sense that they appear receptive to sex. Skimpy clothing, sexual poses and even sexualized facial features (mouth open, heavy breathing, blushing, big lips) are all subtle visual cues that indicate that somebody is interested in sex. Features you never see on men, but are dominant for women in video games.

Because, typically, those aren't cues that men use to convey that they "appear receptive to sex". Those are female traits, used to attract males. And just as typically, the brash, gung-ho, tough guy attitude, along with poses that accentuate a male's toned physique are quite often what men use to attract females, sexually, and this is more than apparent in the majority of video games with male leads.

Just because men don't express themselves sexually the same as women, doesn't mean that those cues aren't being exhibited in video games, ad nauseum. They are. By default, men are visually more subtle when it comes to physical attraction, or even fashion. Commonly, women wear flashy outfits that accentuate their gender's features, much more often than men. Games reflect this, for better or worse.

Men seem to say that men are over sexualized, but really it's just what is considered heroic traits.

My wife tends to agree with me on this: it just so happens that these heroic traits you speak of also tend to be those which women find visually appealing and, if they're so inclined, stimulating. You saying "really, it's just what is considered heroic" seems like an attempt to brush aside a valid complaint leveled by more than a few males.

It's not exactly fair, but nobody really thinks about it in that way.

Actually, they do. While each gender may not necessarily seek the exact same things when thinking of sexually appealing traits in the opposite sex, ask how many women are physically attracted to baggy, unrevealing clothing, an out-of-shape physique, or even baldness, and no one will even have to guess at the answer.

Women are on average, simply sexier than men, and they dress accordingly. Games turn the mirror back on society. Both genders' sexual traits are amplified in popular media. Let's not downplay one in favor of another.

Aussie2B

06-24-2011, 06:29 PM

kedawa

06-24-2011, 06:35 PM

Most of the successful DS and Wii games seem to be tailored to women, as are most of the games on facebook and the like.
If there's any group that's untapped, it's the intelligent gamer. Games just keep getting easier, with more spoon-feeding and obvious puzzles, and there seems to be a trend towards mindless grinding and achievement whoring. And don't even get me started on the tired cliches that pass for characters and plots in single player games.

allyourblood

06-24-2011, 07:10 PM

Male characters aren't sexualized in games at all. When you see a male character that's chiseled and handsome, it's because the developer is trying to create a character that a male gamer would like to imagine himself as. These sorts of characters absolutely are not designed for the purpose of providing eye candy to female gamers, in the way in which female characters are designed for male gamers.

Here, in 2011, you can't seriously believe this. The concept of female gamers finding attraction in male characters has been wholly solidified in the last 5 years, at least. Search online with the appropriate keywords, and see a plethora of evidence to this end. Further, even as passive as I am in reading interviews and articles regarding current games and trends, I've read more than one such article regarding sexuality in gaming that supports the fact that male figures are certainly crafted to appeal to the opposite sex.

If you want an example of sexualized male characters in games, then you'd be better off looking at Japanese RPGs and such with their bishounen characters. Pretty boys are really big in Japan (anywhere really, among teenage girls), so in genres that get a decent number of female players, like RPGs, you'll see some male characters that are probably designed to appeal to young women to some extent.I'm not familiar with the Japanese gaming market nor its trends. I was speaking more specifically of "western" gaming.

I agree that traditionally, male characters have been designed to be that iconic, hero figure; dashing, handsome and without a hint of human frailty or weakness. But in recent years, the focus and target demographic have shifted; developers are aware that females are playing these games more often, and these idealized males are absolutely being built to be hunky as well as heroic. That they've somewhat been that way for a long time, doesn't give them a free pass now that the audience has expanded.

Letiumtide

06-24-2011, 07:20 PM

Because, typically, those aren't cues that men use to convey that they "appear receptive to sex". Those are female traits, used to attract males. And just as typically, the brash, gung-ho, tough guy attitude, along with poses that accentuate a male's toned physique are quite often what men use to attract females, sexually, and this is more than apparent in the majority of video games with male leads.

You say that, but such leads are not intended for women to feel sexually attracted to the character, they're that way for men to look up to/live through/etc... Gabriel from Lords of Shadow is as you describe, is he sexualized for women to fantasize about? What about Marcus from Gears of War? Do you think a woman would be all into that?

The difference isn't, these men aren't sexualized in some respect, the difference is... are these men sexualized to appeal to women? The answer is no, they are not, they are sexualized to be a heroic portrayal for men, whether or not that tends to be the case is not the question at hand. It's the fact that women in video games, tend to be sexualized to appeal to men, not to be a heroic avatar for women.

That said, I can see where you are coming from where you say that they are sexualized to some degree, my boyfriend agrees that he's annoyed with the portrayal of men in video games because they more often than not reflect nothing about what he wants to be, sees himself as or cares for.

It's a two way road, that said... the women in video games are hypersexualized for men to be attracted to, the men in video games are generally not for women to be attracted to.

Except of course in some Japanese games as Aussie2B mentioned.

Also sexual reception is actually more or less the same for both men and women. Men flush when they are sexually aroused, breath heavier, and in general show the same reactions. The difference is, men are never shown this way in video games, but women are, you say that they are more visually subtle, but the same cues are actually present in real life.

I don't want to downplay the way men are represented in video games, I'm not trying to... that wasn't within the means of the topic of thread. What I was saying was reasons why women feel segregated from video games and why "games for girls" is the wrong approach.

I personally think sexuality in video games is fine, to a degree, we're all human and humans are sexual creatures. There's nothing wrong with that.

Some women are very overtly sexual, that's fine, but there are a disproportionate amount of hyper sexualized characters in games in general where it's not needed.

I've read more than one such article regarding sexuality in gaming that supports the fact that male figures are certainly crafted to appeal to the opposite sex.

I'm actually interested in reading these articles if you can find them for me.

Search online with the appropriate keywords, and see a plethora of evidence to this end. Further, even as passive as I am in reading interviews and articles regarding current games and trends.

I searched Sexy Male Game Characters and came up with Chris Redfield, Ezio Auditore, Nathan Drake, The Prince from Prince of Persia. Really... the only one of those that is overtly sexual to any degree is Ezio and even then that's only in character. Not really much in his overall appearance throughout the game, he doesn't wear skin tight clothing, or anything revealing.

Aussie2B

06-24-2011, 08:27 PM

Some women will find the Vin Diesel sorts sexually attractive, no doubt, but there's a big difference between sexy male characters and sexualized male characters. It's all about the aims of the character design, and I'm not convinced at all that these hyper-masculine games give a damn whatsoever what women think of the characters when most women wouldn't touch those sorts of games.

Pretty much everyone wants to feel like they're attractive, so guys want to play as a male character that they would consider good-looking. If people wanted to play as a fat loser, Virtual Hydlide would've been more popular. :P

calistarwind

06-24-2011, 10:12 PM

I would have to say and I have heard this out of several woman's mouths including a much older lady (60's) that find Dante from Devil May Cry very attractive and it was the reason they picked up the game. However, I do believe that most male leads are not put in a role for woman to fantasize about but it does happen. Woman find a way to make things their own and I think it is quite interesting and great that they really don't give a crap if a game is made for them or not.

On another note Play magazine is still doing Girls of Gaming and it truly shows that these game woman are being sexually exploited and some of the pictures are hand drawn by the artist of the particular game to put them in a more "appealing" pose. You do not see the same magazine for woman.