Pinball

[Baloo]

I had a thread about this before the crash but unfortunately it got lost, so I'm going to start it up again after playing a couple pins in a bowling alley near me on Saturday.

Who here is a fan of pinball? The classic game that really kicked-off arcades and has been around since the 1940s! I love it, and it sucks that most places don't even bother with the machines anymore for the most part since they're expensive and costly to maintain, as well as large and not huge money makers. Whether it be mechanical or electronic, I love pinball. There's something about the game that can't be duplicated in video games. And the replay value is hard to be topped. I could probably play Super Mario Bros., Bride of Pinbot, Medieval Madness, and Addams Family alone for hours on end.

I must say it, I hate Stern Pinball machines though. Recently played Monopoly, Lord of the Rings, and Playboy over the weekend and the machines were all in poor shape, and the board layout was terrible to begin with. Is it just me or does it feel like all Stern pinball machines really have going for them is the license? Before Bally-Williams, SEGA, and even Gottlieb made some great pins, all the Stern ones I've played are just really junky it seems.

Anyone else here a fan of pinball?

[Goblin]

I am a huge fan. We are currently down to only 3 machines (Simpsons Pinball Party, Lord of the Rings, and Apollo 13), and in the past 3 years we have owned 2 others (Black Knight, and Space Shuttle). Say what you will about Stern, but realize that if you are only playing machines in poor condition then you aren't getting a true taste of what they can offer. While Stern has released some sub-par machines in the past few years, there are still a number of great machines (Spiderman, Iron Man). Every manufacturer has their share of turds, and even a great machine that is in awful condition will leave a very poor impression.

Mine are all clean and working, and I get a huge rush out of them. Both LOTR and TSPP are considered 'deep' games. I don't consider myself good, but I can play a single 3-ball game of LOTR for 20 minutes alone. All have so many features and modes that I don't know if I'll ever see everything they have to offer. That doesn't always lend itself to newer players. In fact when we have guests over I rarely offer to play against since it usually ends up taking too long and people start loosing interest. I'd rather watch everyone enjoying themselves when then get multiball for the first time or the shaker motor kicks in. A game like my A13, is nice because it is quick and leads to faster 5 minute games. Many times that is more than enough to get a pinball fix.

I'm not a Stern fanboy, having owned Williams machines in the past, and there are still a number of other Bally-Williams I would like to own. Corvette and The Getaway are on my short list, but I'll try any game I come across. As you mention they are hardly in arcades anymore so the best place to play is conventions or the few dedicated places that seem to cater to enthusiasts. Its a good time to be in the hobby as there are a number of new developments, manufacturers, and projects in the works by some of the big players in the industry. 2012 looks like it is one track to be a great pinball year. I just need to pull together a little more money and move some things around to see if I can work something else in.

I have also begun working on a completely custom WW2 themed game. It is designed on paper, and in the fall I will begin pulling some parts together to get it started. I figure within 2 years I should be able to pull it together.

[T]

I am a big fan of Funhouse. I haven't seen one is a while/


When i was in college, i used to play a pinball
i believe was called comet. It was in the bar i
worked at. great game

[ubersaurus]

I enjoy pinball, even though I am absolutely awful at it. There's two places of note around here that have machines: Pinball Pete's in Ann Arbor, and Marvin's Marvelous Mechanical Museum in Farmington Hills (plus the local Taylortown flea market has a small selection). I really like Lord of the Rings, though Attack From Mars, Fun House, Iron Man, and Black Knight are all pretty fun tables as well. I had the chance to try out the new Tron pinball at Pete's over the weekend, and I found it to be pretty fun, though it drove home that I suck at the game.

Since Michigan also has an annual pinball expo, I got to try out the new Stern Rolling Stones machine, which was a lot of fun too. Definitely had more success at it than their other new games.

[SpaceHarrier]

It's my dream to someday own a Jurassic Park pinball machine, moreso than anything else arcade related. Unfortunately, they are quite pricey.

[Baloo]

I enjoy pinball, even though I am absolutely awful at it. There's two places of note around here that have machines: Pinball Pete's in Ann Arbor, and Marvin's Marvelous Mechanical Museum in Farmington Hills (plus the local Taylortown flea market has a small selection). I really like Lord of the Rings, though Attack From Mars, Fun House, Iron Man, and Black Knight are all pretty fun tables as well. I had the chance to try out the new Tron pinball at Pete's over the weekend, and I found it to be pretty fun, though it drove home that I suck at the game.

Since Michigan also has an annual pinball expo, I got to try out the new Stern Rolling Stones machine, which was a lot of fun too. Definitely had more success at it than their other new games.

Wow, I didn't even know there was a new Tron pinball machine or a pinball expo, that sounds really cool.

Around here there are a couple of good places to play pinball, namely in Jersey. At the Berlin Flea Market there's a small arcade that has about 7-8 Pinball machines, and then on Ocean City's Boardwalk there's Jilly's Arcade which has at least 15 or so pins, which is nice. I hear a new place with all mechanical pinball machines has opened up on Wildwood's Boardwalk as well.

[DKTheArcadeRat]

Who here is a fan of pinball? The classic game that really kicked-off arcades and has been around since the 1940s!

http://www.pinballhistory.com/pinfirsts.html

30's bro.

[Baloo]

Ahh, so Baffle Ball was 31. Couldn't remember which decade it was. I've got that one on my computer as part of a collection.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Love pinball. Check CGRPinball on YT. DPers seeing this thread would like the convergence of Classic Gameroom and Pinball. :)

The footage and table tutorials are awesome. They play the games without the glass too, they're dangerous! I've had more than a few balls pop-up into the glass before, still makes me jump. Playing without the glass, I'd skillshot my eye out.

[otaku]

love pinball but you don't see them around as much these days and when you do they always seem to need repairs. I've only owned one a little electronic mail order thing for 80 bucks. Spotted an old 70s lord of the rings pinball in a pawnshop recently which I would love to rescue any idea what its worth? Didn't get to see if it was in working order but it was a bit rough looking

[Postermen]

I just sold a part of my NES collection, and will be getting a Whitewater shortly. Then I will save a little for a Medieval Madness.

[Collector_Gaming]

i would love to own a pinball machine
I love love pinballs. I am not the greatest at them i will admit but still all the sounds and lights and actions and movements. and that feeling your talking about that a video game can not emulate is the vibrations and such a pinball machine makes when the ball hits the bumpers and pins and targets and actions going off and all that stuff and the sound they make.. You can't emulate that true sound of the ball hitting pins and bumpers and targets.
and the feel of pulling the plunger back and releasing watching the ball go. once again a video game can't emulate that.

[Fatalstar64]

I would love to own a pinball machine as well but honestly where do you start? Any decent game will set you back about 2k. I can only imagine what repairs will cost overtime and how often they break down, are there any tips to get started collecting pinball machines on a budget?

[Collector_Gaming]

there is a pinball auction as stated before.

there is also few places luckily for me in the north east region that repair pinball machines so getting parts and such wouldn't be difficult.

Its just doing it since i am not technician of any sort.


I would personally just keep a eye out on craigslist and local arcades.
make sure you test the machine so you know whats going on (most common thing i seen in terms of issues that result in the game not playing right is when the paddles won't hit the ball hard enough IE when you gun for the ramp and the ball will never build enough momentum to even get up it or won't even reach the higher area of the table itself. Which could be a result of a bad motor or something mechanical there weakened or something like that)

[goatdan]

I would love to own a pinball machine as well but honestly where do you start? Any decent game will set you back about 2k. I can only imagine what repairs will cost overtime and how often they break down, are there any tips to get started collecting pinball machines on a budget?

rec.gaming.pinball.

I own about 30ish games, most of which I would say are decent games, none of which cost me more than $2k. I learned how to repair them enough from talking with other people.

Lowest priced game was $100, and you can get fully functional, fun EM or early solid state games (from say 1970-1985ish) for $200-$500 pretty regularly.

[Baloo]

I would love to own a pinball machine as well but honestly where do you start? Any decent game will set you back about 2k. I can only imagine what repairs will cost overtime and how often they break down, are there any tips to get started collecting pinball machines on a budget?

I was wondering this myself, I'm on vacation in Ocean City, NJ and the arcades here have pinball machines, but most are in shitty shape! Weak flippers, targets not working, kickers not bringing the ball back up, drop holes unresponsive, etc. Makes me want to get my own, but they seem expensive and prone to break. Does finding a cheap DMD mean that it's busted to shit? Are pins hard to fix?

[dynastygal]

Never played a real life machine, but have played the classic free pc version you get with windows. I'd love to have one of those mini pinball machines though.

[Collector_Gaming]

i would imagine its extremely difficult to fix a pinball machine if your not a electrician of sorts.
Got to remember when you take those panels off exposing the stuff inside then you have all those servos and motors and boards and wires and switches and buttons and ect ect ect.

[synbiosfan]

I used to own a Bally Fathom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smHWrLKsH2Q

I sold it when I moved a 1000 miles and miss it:(

If you get the chance to buy a good pinball, I recommend it!

[Jorpho]

They offer a unique, physical experience, to be sure, but I've never been good at pinball and I see no way to get better without spending a few hundred quarters. I wish there was some kind of trainer (even a virtual one for the PC, if need be): something that shows you that if you want the ball to do this, you have to do this and hit it at this moment, and then let you try again and again until you can get it every time.


i would imagine its extremely difficult to fix a pinball machine if your not a electrician of sorts.
Got to remember when you take those panels off exposing the stuff inside then you have all those servos and motors and boards and wires and switches and buttons and ect ect ect.On the other hand, it's usually the mechanical whatsits that break down. (How do you still get new parts for those, anyway? Is everything in say, Medieval Madness industry-standard and replaceable with off-the-shelf bits? Do the manufacturers still stock all the fiddly bits that might break, even for discontinued tables?)

[Collector_Gaming]

there use to be a really good free pinball program you could download called Visual Pinball

i mean its still around. They changed it over the years and its become a pain in the ass to run for whatever reason (but on the flipside i haven't tried to get it in the past 3 years so maybe they changed it back? *shrug)
Back when it first started it was a program written in visual basic that allowed people create pinball tables virtually and allow you to play them and share them and such.
And people would create the real tables we all know and love but now in this program right down the lights and sounds and everything.

So if you can get it to run right
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?automodule=downloads&req=search&cmd=browse&cat=all&letter=all&sort_key=f_name&sort_by=A-Z&pp=25
this will probably be your best bet as far as closest emulated pinball game ever.
http://www.vpforums.org/uploads/dsfiles/img-5-1236132670.jpg

[goatdan]

i would imagine its extremely difficult to fix a pinball machine if your not a electrician of sorts.

Not really. These machines were built to be put in arcades where the average repair person was a high school or college kid that had no formal training on how to fix them. They are made pretty darn simple really, and while there are some complex problems that I end up getting fixed by a friend of mine who is a pinball electronics wizard, I'd say that of the 50 or so games that have passed through my hands, probably 25 of which had big problems, only 3 have gone to him.

The thing that might stop you more is the fact that parts cost decent money to repair games.

As for the person that asked about the $1000 DMD era game, it depends on the game. For instance, you could get a Street Fighter II ALL day for $1000 that is probably in very nice shape... because most collectors think that game sucks (and honestly, it doesn't *play* like a pinball machine, it plays like a video game so if you want a pinball machine, it isn't going to be your top choice). If you get a game for $1000 that usually sells for $2000, you'll probably need to put like $1500 of work into it.

[RPG_Fanatic]

I loved the Street Fighter II pinball machine, I would love to buy one.

[Rickstilwell1]

I used to have one of those little Tomy Atomic Pinball machines a s a kid but it broke. I can't believe how high some people try to sell those for. I'd love to get another one. A small toy pinball machine would be easier to store than a full size machine.

[pixelsnpolygons]

Pinball machines were one of the first thing to hook me on arcades. When I was very young and the other games seemed more intimidating - they were a little more accessible. I wasn't very good - but I understood the goal immediately. The sad thing is, though - I'm probably no more experienced now than I was then. Like a lot of people, I'm not that great and I've never really learned how to play well. Most games only last a few minutes for me - occasionally I've milked it longer with extra balls and sheer dumb luck with multi-balls. Speaking of which, the first time I ever experienced multi-balls I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Pinball machines also added some of my favorite sounds from the arcade experience.

Anyway, it's unfortunately not a priority right now, but some day I wouldn't mind owning one or two machines. There's a fair few that I would buy even if they weren't functioning because the artwork and overall design is just so awesome.

[jammajup]

I was mainly into video games but i do like Pinballs,i remember a pool room near where i live having a Space Invader pinball and the top was always open with the owner repairing something it was like it was a wreck,the things just seemed so to contain everything-electrical,machanical and optical i think there is so much to go wrong with pinballs.
In 2006 here in the UK there was the Pinball show in Aston Birmingham and it was really overwhelming the noise Pinballs make all together it is trully an unforettable experience,i remember playing a Hurricane pinball which i seemed to be gettting addicted too lol.
It was an amazing day and did take some short video footage:
pins1 (http://www.jammajup.co.uk/pinball/pins1.mpg)
pins2 (http://www.jammajup.co.uk/pinball/pins2.mpg)
pins3 (http://www.jammajup.co.uk/pinball/pins3.mpg)
pins4 (http://www.jammajup.co.uk/pinball/pins5.mpg)
pins5 (http://www.jammajup.co.uk/pinball/pins7.mpg)
Hurricane (http://www.jammajup.co.uk/pinball/hurricane.mpg)

[Fatalstar64]

I've been playing around with vpinball and my favorite table I'd have to say is Tales from the Crypt, nice simple rules and easy to get multiball. It's probably the table I'd wanna purchase but it goes for just under 3k which is a shame. Also really like Southpark, Xenon and Simpsons Pinball Party. What would be a good deal on a Tales from the Crypt pinball? Also any amazing tables I must try out that are lesser known? I've already tried Medieval Madness and the Addams family as well as Attack from Mars. I won't even consider MM because let's face it too bloody expensive.

[Jorpho]

The Twilight Zone routinely makes top ten lists – but not unlike Medieval Madness, it's full of complex little gadgets that break easily, apparently. I personally have fond memories of WhoDunnit and Super Mario Bros, but maybe that's just me. And I remember good reviews of the Star Trek pinball, but that's pretty old at this point.


How do you still get new parts for those, anyway? Is everything in say, Medieval Madness industry-standard and replaceable with off-the-shelf bits? Do the manufacturers still stock all the fiddly bits that might break, even for discontinued tables?Still wondering about this.

[Beefy Hits]

Am a huge fan and have been playing for like 3 years seriously.

Wasn't big into it when I was young

There's plenty of places to play in MN, the two major places being

SS Billiards (http://www.ssbilliards.com/)

SS Billiards is located just south of downtown Hopkins Minnesota at 732 11th Avenue South in the Westbrooke Square mall.
Our hours are noon to midnight Monday through Saturday and 2:00 pm to 10:00 pm Sunday.

Current games are:
$1.00/play
Dark Knight
Pirates of the Caribean
Spider Man
Wheel of Fortune
Big Bang Bar

.75/play
Creature from the Black Lagoon
Revenge from Mars (the first one, not the 3d one)
Adams Family
Midevil Madness

.50/play
Corvette

& BlaineBrook Entertainment Center (http://www.blainbrookbowl.com/arcade.html)

12000 Central Avenue NE
Minneapolis, MN 55434-3912
763.755.8686

They don't answer their phones, so don't even bother calling.

50 games, including:

$1.00 per play
Tron
Iron Man
Family Guy
Spider Man
World Poker Tour
Avatar

.50 per play
Taxi
High Speed II
Whirlwind
Sorcerer
Pinbot
Who Dunnit?
Demolition Man
Mousin' Around

+ a shitload more
BlaineBrook does tourneys the first Sunday of every month with cash prizes, and you only pay to play the games. You get a free drink token for particpating.

[Baloo]

Still wondering about this.

Medieval Madness is so popular as a pinball machine that all the parts are definitely replaceable. Usually the most breakable parts are the Merlin's Magic pop hole, the drawbridge, and the gate.

It's such a great game though that the demand and price are stupidly high since the print run wasn't extremely high, though I've played a few machines. It has decent longevity as a pin, though I prefer the games that require a skillful shot at the right time to get the high points, like Super Mario Bros. Their appeal lasts longer and is overall more fun.

[Jorpho]

A dollar per play for a pinball machine is f'n ridiculous!


Medieval Madness is so popular as a pinball machine that all the parts are definitely replaceable. Usually the most breakable parts are the Merlin's Magic pop hole, the drawbridge, and the gate.But are they still custom parts that are useless for any other table?

[Baloo]

A dollar per play for a pinball machine is f'n ridiculous!

But are they still custom parts that are useless for any other table?

The drawbridge and gate, yes. The pophole, no. But unless you happen to break these things in half, you won't need to replace them. Usually it's the things that get them moving that break from wear over time. They're replaceable.

[TOK]

I usually lurk, but happened to see this after not logging in for a while. I started collecting video games, but also picked up a couple pins... I love Williams System 11 games, so my first pics were Pinbot and Taxi. They were always in the arcade alongside the video games.

I found the people that are intimidated by the video games immediately gravitate to and love the pinball machines. They definitely compliment any gameroom.

http://vortexarcade.home.comcast.net/~vortexarcade/images/pinsindex.jpg

[goatdan]

A dollar per play for a pinball machine is f'n ridiculous!

I don't know about that. You're talking about a game where you're throwing around a little metal ball, hitting things and wearing on the machine. Unlike modern drivers or shooters that are often $1.00 a play, the games last longer and give you the opportunity to play well and play again.

When I started playing arcade video games, they were $0.25 cents and pinball was $0.50 cents. After 20+ years of inflation, arcade video games are $1.00+ and pinball is at $0.50 cents. Seems like Pinball didn't keep up.

Also, S&S Billiards is one of the best maintained, best kept up locations in the country, and maintenance takes both time and money to do. I'd pay $1.00 to play some of his machines any day over the beat to heck $0.50 cent machines around here.

But hey, maybe that's just me.

[Jorpho]

Unlike modern drivers or shooters that are often $1.00 a play, the games last longer and give you the opportunity to play well and play again.Whaa? Could you elaborate on this, please?

[goatdan]

Whaa? Could you elaborate on this, please?

I'm not sure what you want me to elaborate on, the fact that a skilled pinball player can play a game for a long time, or the fact that you can win replays for reaching score thresholds.

I have been a decent player for a while. A number of games around here I could pay fifty cent and play for 20 minutes including replays and whatnot. Perhaps the best I ever did was on a Flintstones game, where I put in $2.00 for 5 games, played for an hour and a half, and the machine had 6 games on it still because I had earned so many free games. I probably played 10 games in that time.

For an hour and a half of pinball enjoyment, I would have been more than happy to pay $10 to play. Heck, I've been to SS Billiards before, and I've dropped $30 in about an hour, and was WAY happier than that Flintstones game that went on forever for $2 because the games are so much better maintained.

[RetroGaming Roundup]

Another point to consider is the cost of a pinball machine. At $4,500 to $5,500 purchase for a new Stern, plus maintenance it can take a while to pay off the purchase price before it becomes a profit generating machine.

[Jorpho]

Oops, missed this before.


I'm not sure what you want me to elaborate on, the fact that a skilled pinball player can play a game for a long timeWell, there's the rub. How can you disparage "modern drivers or shooters" when a "skilled player" at such games may also play for a long time? (I'll admit an hour and a half is a little unlikely.)

Don't some pinball machines have a setting where the score required for a replay will get bumped upward or downward depending on how often it's being reached?

[Videogamerdaryll]

Here’s my Pin..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/Chris1/MASS%20ALBUM%20SEPT%202100/NintendoAdventuresofLolo123Games005.jpg
very fast,hard hitting gameplay compared to other EMs I’ve played..


http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.163111580400883.40105.100001061259159&l=7a8155364a&type=1

My Brother in laws current Pinball Machines..This is his second line up of pins having recently sold three other Pins..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/Chris1/BIG%20ALBUM%20FOR%202011/282043_226715420707165_100001061259159_763984_4366 001_n.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/Chris1/BIG%20ALBUM%20FOR%202011/250020_226714577373916_100001061259159_763963_8060 559_n.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/Chris1/BIG%20ALBUM%20FOR%202011/185397_226714807373893_100001061259159_763968_1106 392_n.jpg
He’s restoring the Adams Family and has paid for the new Wizard Of Oz Pin coming out.
His gameroom..
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.226710087374365.68020.100001061259159&l=e9f936908c&type=1


My Dads..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/Chris1/BIG%20ALBUM%20FOR%202011/BZMpart016017025.jpg

He has this too.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/Chris1/BIG%20ALBUM%20FOR%202011/69712_161696680542373_100001061259159_365242_32812 08_n.jpg

[goatdan]

Oops, missed this before.

Well, there's the rub. How can you disparage "modern drivers or shooters" when a "skilled player" at such games may also play for a long time? (I'll admit an hour and a half is a little unlikely.)

I'm not "disparaging" modern drivers or shooters -- in fact, I'm friends with a bunch of the people that make them. But the fact is those games are MADE to make money in a way that pinball machines aren't.

Let's take, oh, any of the games from Raw Thrills that are racers. Using H2Overdrive as the most recent example (it's also perhaps the best arcade racer ever, period, and I've dropped a mint into a couple of them around town), if you are a *skilled* player, it means that you complete the race faster, ending your game faster.

If you are not a skilled player, unlike the games that I think that you're thinking of -- like the Cruis'n series for instance (which, by the way, interestingly enough Eugene Jarvis created the Cruis'n series, but now owns and runs Raw Thrills / Play Mechanix) where if you aren't as skilled, the game ends earlier. If you're skilled, you get to race longer. For the most part, while the time limit is still there, in games like H2Overdrive it is there so you can't just turn around and race backwards all day. Not too long ago, I played H2Overdrive with my wife, who did not want to push the throttle all the way forward because she was worried that she would lose control of her boat, and she never used the boost.

I finished the race, and the game still gave her enough time to come tooting in about 25 seconds after me. From what I understand, those are the default factory settings of these games now.

For shooters, it is a little bit different, but the games are made to last about a certain amount of time and then end. Unlike a pinball machine where the game can't exactly make itself way more difficult as it goes on, arcade games have that built into their programming.

My point was that in the same amount of time that pinball machines have not changed values, the default price of most arcade video games shifted from half the cost of a play of a pinball machine to double the cost of a play of a pinball machine. And, pinball takes more maintenance than those machines by a long, long shot.


Don't some pinball machines have a setting where the score required for a replay will get bumped upward or downward depending on how often it's being reached?

Yes, in fact basically all machines past 1992ish have something akin to that. But, that ratcheting is based on a lot of different factors, and if you are a good player you can stay ahead of it for a while.

About a week ago, I found an Austin Powers at the local movie theater. I happily plopped in my quarters, and 25 minutes later I had set the Grand Champion score (the number 1 score on that machine since the scores were last reset), and I had earned three free credits for doing so. My score was something like 550 million. Replay was set for something like 40 million, and because I played so well, it ratcheted up to something like 55 million for the next game. Not saying that I could have pulled off 550 million every game, but if I'm even halfway consistent and the score goes up by 15 million each time, I feel pretty safe about winning another four games on it before I have to worry about paying.

Personally, I like the machines around town where operators set it so that instead of a replay, you get an extra ball for higher scores. It extends a good game, and gets me to pump 50 cents more into the game if I want to after the first ends, making it so that I can't totally screw an operator by playing their game for free for a long, long time.

Having been at Lloyd's, I'd *happily* pay a buck any day to play most of his games than pay 50 cents to play most of the games around here on route. An enjoyable pinball machine is hugely based on how well maintained it is, and there aren't many places in the world that are better at maintaining their pins than he is. I have to say, I am glad that I don't live within a few miles of that place, or I'd be flat broke always.

[Moon Jump]

It sucks now that Stern is making their games 75 cents as the standard price. Depending on where you go most places rarely offer their games at a 50 cent price point. I'm glad at the one place I go, Reciprocal Skateboards in NYC the owner Jon has his Tron Legacy set to 50 cents with a replay set at 15.5 million.

I still have to go there, but I've heard nothing but good things about Sara St John's place up in New Hampshire, The Pinball Wizard's Arcade. She charges usual token prices so the Sterns are 3 but they only charge 4 tokens for one machine, Medieval Madness. My friend said, he scoffed at the price at first, but he said the game plays like it's brand new. She keeps all her tables running great. So if I gotta pay two more tokens to play a good kept together machine, I'll go for it.

[Jorpho]

...Y'know, that's another question that comes to mind: why should these things break? I mean, yes, whacking a steel ball bearing into bits repeatedly would be expected to cause some wear and tear, but one would think these things would be engineered accordingly. Is it just people being too rough with banging on the machines?

[Baloo]

...Y'know, that's another question that comes to mind: why should these things break? I mean, yes, whacking a steel ball bearing into bits repeatedly would be expected to cause some wear and tear, but one would think these things would be engineered accordingly. Is it just people being too rough with banging on the machines?

It also has to do with quality control from the company. If you compare current Stern pins (Most are made cheaply because there's no other competing companies and no reason to spend more money really) to the 90s Gottlieb Premier pins (Which are very, VERY durable). Also depends on the specific pin too. Stuff like Addams Family is notorious for breaking down very frequently and easily.

[goatdan]

It also has to do with quality control from the company. If you compare current Stern pins (Most are made cheaply because there's no other competing companies and no reason to spend more money really) to the 90s Gottlieb Premier pins (Which are very, VERY durable). Also depends on the specific pin too. Stuff like Addams Family is notorious for breaking down very frequently and easily.

You're right that Gottlieb games were built like tanks, but the thing is that Gottlieb dot matrix era games also earned like crap on location, so even if it isn't breaking down, why would you as an arcade operator put out a pinball machine that earns 50% of what the Addams Family next to it earns?

As for them breaking down, the most recent Stern pins are built with far more quality control than games 10 or more years ago. I know a number of operators who would back up that statement -- that Stern machines are better out of the box and long run than just about anything before, Gottliebs probably being the exception, but again they didn't keep those on route because they didn't earn money.

A friend of mine who worked in the pinball industry for years suggested the best way to explain why pinball machines break down is to ask someone to put their hand on a table and hold the ball three feet above them, and ask them if it would be okay to drop it on them. It would hurt. A LOT. You're putting a ton of parts in a machine that are made to register when a ball is rocketed over them on a regular basis. And, these are moving parts.

Saying that pinball machines aren't engineered properly is like saying that your car should never, ever break down no matter how many miles you drive it -- it just isn't realistic. Moving parts break, and when you're sending a pretty hefty ball screaming at those targets on a regular basis, they break more.

[Jorpho]

But then, some moving parts aren't having the ball slammed into them – things like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park, or the crane in Demolition Man.

[goatdan]

But then, some moving parts aren't having the ball slammed into them – things like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park, or the crane in Demolition Man.

Coming from a guy who owns a Demolition Man and Jurassic Park, I've had no problems with either.

Early Jurassic Parks had too much left right motion in the dinosaur's movement, and it was done too fast. That led to a bunch of burnt out motors and potentially issues with the dinosaur if it wasn't in the "home" position, but the game was and is able to compensate for this in software so it isn't a game killing issue. And again, it's a motor -- any motor that you're going to run after a certain amount of cycles will need servicing.

I have not heard of there being any real issues with the Demo Man crane, so that one is new to me. Demo Man is known as a pretty issue free game.

Besides, even though the ball isn't directly hitting those two objects (and others in other games), the fact is that the ball is still causing the most toxic thing to *any* machinery, which is vibrations to occur throughout it.

If you want to have a physical game, you have to accept the fact that sometimes it is going to need to have repairs and maintenance done to it. Nothing that is physical machinery, whether it is a pinball machine, car, factory robot, or whatever else can operate forever without repairs and maintenance.

Heck, a few years ago Disney paid multi-multi millions of dollars to create an audio-animatronic Yeti for their ride Expedition Everest. That figure, while all that it does is move, and while it was engineered just to move, broke down in 2008 and they have not been able to fix it to date. If Disney can't figure out how to build and fix a multi-million dollar machine so that it never breaks, how can a pinball company expect to build a $4000 machine whose purpose is to have a silver ball smash into things in it and make it so that it never breaks?

[Jorpho]

I saw one busted Demo Man once and assumed it was a regular thing. But then, I suppose I've seen a lot of busted machines every now and then. (What was it, the Winnipeg airport? I don't think it was Calgary. They sure had a lovely gallery of machines in varied states of disrepair.)


Heck, a few years ago Disney paid multi-multi millions of dollars to create an audio-animatronic Yeti for their ride Expedition Everest. That figure, while all that it does is move, and while it was engineered just to move, broke down in 2008 and they have not been able to fix it to date.Well, now you've made me curious; that is awfully impressive. :) Do you have linkage? I'd be interested in the logistics involved. Did they outsource to a company that went bankrupt and whose employees then subsequently vanished from the face of the Earth? Or maybe someone didn't get paid well enough and left in disgust? Or maybe it was such a horrible, kludged spaghetti design that once it fell apart it just wasn't possible to put it back together again?

[NYLatenite]

I saw one busted Demo Man once and assumed it was a regular thing. But then, I suppose I've seen a lot of busted machines every now and then. (What was it, the Winnipeg airport? I don't think it was Calgary. They sure had a lovely gallery of machines in varied states of disrepair.)

Well, now you've made me curious; that is awfully impressive. :) Do you have linkage? I'd be interested in the logistics involved. Did they outsource to a company that went bankrupt and whose employees then subsequently vanished from the face of the Earth? Or maybe someone didn't get paid well enough and left in disgust? Or maybe it was such a horrible, kludged spaghetti design that once it fell apart it just wasn't possible to put it back together again?

I found this on it

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=4618

[goatdan]

I found this on it

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=4618

Yeah, that pretty much sums up what is known. There are various reports on it, some reports are that the "spine" of the figure broke, others (like that one) are about the foundation of it.

From having worked in the theme park industry, I assume that none of those reports are right, and that only a very limited amount of people know what actually occurred -- regardless, the star of a $100 million dollar ride has been frozen in place for three years now.

And actually, the theme park industry draws another great comparison -- those multi-million dollar rides are made to not break down, but because they're moving (and vibrating) they do on a pretty regular basis. But, they are designed to not stay down long, and to always be safe when they break.

Pinball machines are designed so that when they break, they usually remain playable with little notice to the player. Machines that aren't cared for by ops -- like if the Demo Man crane isn't working -- would be broken through neglect. Sometimes, an op can stop out once a week and things will break later in the day after he leaves, so it's hard to really call it neglect, but I've also seen machines -- there is a Getaway at a hotel that immediately comes to mind -- in such ridiculously rough shape that they shouldn't be operated. That's just pure neglect, and nothing more.

To bring this back to Lloyd's, since he is always on the premises at SS Billiards, it means that the games don't suffer any neglect -- a problem arises, and Lloyd fixes it immediately. Well worth the extra quarter or fifty cents a play.

[Baloo]

Pinball machines require high maintenance, which is a real shame when you just find battered games on the route. With the way they're just ignored so that they go into such disrepair is a true crime, and really makes me think that pinball machines are better off in the hands of the people who know how to service them or homes for personal use.

There's a Medieval Madness at my local bowling alley, and the right flipper is weakened and the gate won't come down. And since no one comes to service the games, it'll just stay like that until they get a new machine. What a shame :(

[goatdan]

There's a Medieval Madness at my local bowling alley, and the right flipper is weakened and the gate won't come down. And since no one comes to service the games, it'll just stay like that until they get a new machine. What a shame :(

Try this:

Look at the machine. Almost all route machines have a "tag" on them from the company that they come from. It almost always has a number. Give that number a call and tell them that you just played the machine, and that you were planning on spending at least $XX on it, but that it has an issue with whatever it is.

There was a Medieval Madness at a local pizza place last summer and I was excited to get to play it -- it's become stupid expensive, so I'll just play the route ones. Anyway, the flippers were *beat* and I was so disappointed, I did just what I suggested above. The person picked up, apologized, and came out immediately to fix it. I got back two days later, and it played like it was new.

Sometimes, games fall into disrepair because of bad operators. Many times though too, games fall into disrepair because no one tells them that the machine has fallen into disrepair.

[Baloo]

Try this:

Look at the machine. Almost all route machines have a "tag" on them from the company that they come from. It almost always has a number. Give that number a call and tell them that you just played the machine, and that you were planning on spending at least $XX on it, but that it has an issue with whatever it is.

There was a Medieval Madness at a local pizza place last summer and I was excited to get to play it -- it's become stupid expensive, so I'll just play the route ones. Anyway, the flippers were *beat* and I was so disappointed, I did just what I suggested above. The person picked up, apologized, and came out immediately to fix it. I got back two days later, and it played like it was new.

Sometimes, games fall into disrepair because of bad operators. Many times though too, games fall into disrepair because no one tells them that the machine has fallen into disrepair.

Hmm, I never thought of that, thanks for the tip. Yeah, I love Medival Madness and played the machine quite a bit before the flipper went bust (I've got the high score on the machine with 107 Million) and since there's no other pinball machines around here really, I should give the vending place on the sticker on the machine a call. Thanks.

[goatdan]

No problem! You can also ask them if they have any other pinball machines in town because you'd like to play them if they do.

*Some* route ops will get all weird and not tell you because they come from an era where they might have their routes "poached" by others, so they don't want to tell you where the other machines are in case you're trying to start a route and get those locations to take out their machines. Other route operators understand the new world, and will tell you where their games are so they can make more money!