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chadtower
07-17-2003, 12:46 PM
I'm new to the Genesis and last night was trying to hook one up. I figured, easy, right, it's just an rf and power supply. Wrong. This is my situation:

I tried to hook up two difference Genesis 1 consoles. Same result with both. I put the RF from the console to the vcr input, attached the power supply. The sound came out fine, the picture came out, but the picture just about rolled vertically with both consoles. Could I be using the wrong rf or something? Maybe something about passing through a vcr via coax? The TV is fine as it works with everything else... but these Genesis consoles didn't want to work properly and the fact that they both did the same thing leads me to believe I did something wrong.

AB Positive
07-17-2003, 01:00 PM
what RF are you using? It sounds like the RF is being odd. either that or possibly not enough power? I'm a little confused to why this would happen myself.

-AG

chadtower
07-17-2003, 01:02 PM
I can get the model # of the a/c tonight, and I used both an NES and a Sega rf with the same results...

I was just looking at a gen a/v cord on ebay. It only has one audio plug. I thought the Genesis is stereo?

omnedon
07-17-2003, 01:06 PM
Genny one does not output stereo out of it's rear DIN plug. Only out of it's front earphone plug. The Genny two can output stereo out of it's rear mini DIN plug.

chadtower
07-17-2003, 01:08 PM
Okay, so the back of the Gen has the DIN socket, that a/v socket, and the ps socket. What I was trying to use was that a/v socket with an rf. Is that wrong? Do I need to find one that works with that DIN socket? Where the smeg can I find an owner's manual?

x_x

omnedon
07-17-2003, 01:23 PM
DIN= barrel plug
RF= small round, looks kinda like a composite jack, but isn't (composite is red, yellow, white plugs)

An RF switch would connect to the small round RF jack on the back of the genny. Try changing the channel on the back of the Genny as well. I've seen some that would no longer work on one channel, but would on the other.

The RF out on the genny could be toasted. If so, a composite cable that connects to the big DIN in the back would likely solve your problem.

chadtower
07-17-2003, 01:29 PM
Yeah... that's the weird thing, though. Both consoles did the same thing, which would mean that I either picked up two with the exact same problem within days of each other, or something in my setup is interfering. I'm going to continue to debug the situation.

video_game_addict
07-17-2003, 01:29 PM
There is not an "A/V" & a "DIN" they are one and the same. You should have an 8-pin DIN labeled A/V OUT and you should also have a Female RCA jack, labeled RF OUT

With an RF switchbox, either the original Sega one, or a NES one should work, use the RF OUT, and connect to the COAX INPUT of your VCR, now you may run into problems depending on what channel your TV is set to, what channel the Genesis is set to, and also what channel the VCR is set and whether or not you have it on. You may have it on, but possibly not set to VCR. Or maybe something else in not hooked up right? Try hooking something else up thru the same setup to make sure everything else is working right. Got a NES? Try that.

Also as AdamG has asked about power, make sure its a DC power supply. NES uses AC that's not good for the Genesis. That too could be a possibility.

rbudrick
07-17-2003, 01:30 PM
First, adjust your v hold. Second, are you using an NTSC system on PAL TV or a PAL console on an NTSC TV?

-Rob

chadtower
07-17-2003, 01:39 PM
The odds of my having found two PAL systems in the same week at yard sales in MA are staggeringly low, so we can rule that out.

The V hold on the tv is fine as everything else connected to it displays properly.

I did have an nes hooked up through that same vcr in and the signal went through properly (blinked like a mofo, but that's not relevant here).

It can't be an NES power supply because it says SEGA. I'll check the part # tonight to make sure it's the proper one.

When I said a/v, I meant RCA and was using the wrong term. My bad. I could understand if I was getting no signal, that would lead me to believe that I had a wrong channel or something. The fact that I get a signal, but it's bad, is what is confusing... tonight i'm going to pull out another TV and just set it up in the most basic way with rf into the tv. Let's eliminate all the variables.

Pop Culture Portal
07-17-2003, 01:42 PM
No idea if this will help....

Genesis Model 1 uses RF Switch #1603 while Model 2 and 3 use Switch #1632 (these numbers should be somewhere on the switch itself.

Also, some TV models are not compatable with the Genesis (according to Sega.com). These models include Zenith, Magnavox, and Sylvania. Why this happens the website doesn't say....

chadtower
07-17-2003, 01:47 PM
Where is the genesis info on sega.com? I tried looking there with pretty much zero results for Genesis info...

The tv I'm using is pretty damn old, but it works so far with dreamcast, nes, saturn, my vcr and directv...

Scoots
07-17-2003, 01:48 PM
The odds of my having found two PAL systems in the same week at yard sales in MA are staggeringly low, so we can rule that out.


That's gotta be the most diplomatic response that could be expected from you LOL

rbudrick
07-17-2003, 01:59 PM
Odds or not, it could be, if all else works.



Try on another tv to rule it out. I had to have a "Zenith mod" done by Sega on my genesis once....it didn't roll though...it just came in like complete crap.

-Rob

chadtower
07-17-2003, 01:59 PM
Hey, he's trying to help me out and pointed out a legit possibility. I'm not THAT jerky that I'd snap at someone offering me help! I couldn't think of a better way to phrase that, if it was snippy or anything like that, it was purely unintentional.

:-D

chadtower
07-17-2003, 02:04 PM
Odds or not, it could be, if all else works.

Try on another tv to rule it out. I had to have a "Zenith mod" done by Sega on my genesis once....it didn't roll though...it just came in like complete crap.

-Rob

Hrm... I wonder what brand that TV is. I honestly don't know. I'll have to check that out.

<5 minutes pass>

I just called and sent my wife to the basement to look at the tv. Goddam if it isn't a Zenith. It's like 40 years old but it is definitely a Zenith. What exactly was the problem with the Zenith tvs?

:bad-words:

Pop Culture Portal
07-17-2003, 02:12 PM
Odds or not, it could be, if all else works.

Try on another tv to rule it out. I had to have a "Zenith mod" done by Sega on my genesis once....it didn't roll though...it just came in like complete crap.

-Rob

Hrm... I wonder what brand that TV is. I honestly don't know. I'll have to check that out.

<5 minutes pass>

I just called and sent my wife to the basement to look at the tv. Goddam if it isn't a Zenith. It's like 40 years old but it is definitely a Zenith. What exactly was the problem with the Zenith tvs?

:bad-words:

No idea what was up with the Zeniths...the same thing happened to me when I bought one of the first PS1s...my older Zenith, no go...on my brother's newer Zenith, everything worked. From what I remember, the older Zeniths don't have an automatic horizontal control (or something like that...supposedly a chip not available for the older TVs)...this was "fixed" later on newer models, which included this chip...basically, ANY game system hooked up to these TVs were not supposed to work, yet all my other game systems worked on that crappy Zenith, except for the PS1. Go figure.

And BTW...

http://www.sega.com/help/classic/genesis_troubleshooting.jhtml

There's a tad bit of info on the TV incompatability about half-way down under "The screen is bouncing or jumping."

Bratwurst
07-17-2003, 02:15 PM
I wonder what entails this 'Zenith Modification' for the Genesis when you send it in?

chadtower
07-17-2003, 02:18 PM
Yeah, I just found that url myself. Funky stuff. That tv works with directv, vcr, Saturn, Dreamcast, NES... those are all things I've tested so far and they all work perfectly. I know it doesn't have a vertical hold because I tried to find one to adjust it. So now if I want to do this whole setup properly (I'm planning on setting up one of each system on switchboxes) I have to get another tv just because of the genesis? That's retarded.

Does anyone know if the Laseractive has this issue with Zeniths? I do have one of those but hadn't planned on using it in this setup.

Also, this 'Zenith mod'... are these modded consoles still compatible with nonZeniths?

digitalpress
07-17-2003, 02:19 PM
I'm gonna move this over to the Restoration Society Forum. Seems like a better fit there, yes?

>> YES <<

video_game_addict
07-17-2003, 02:30 PM
LOL I'd never heard of such. The TV's are not compatable! O_O I've never had a problem out of Magnavox personally although now I mainly use Sony. I guess that's always an option... There's no way to get a model 1 and the model 2,3 RF switches confused. The 2 & 3 RF switches go to the mini-DIN of the A/V on those model systems. It's an entirely different plug.

Best thing to do is go simple like you've already suggested. Make sure it's not a problem with the systems, or power supplies, or RF switches, then it it's still working look elsewhere to what you may have fouled up.

Oh and if you've got a Sega power supply you should be OK. The model 2,3 and other Sega ones, for CDX, Nomad etc. all used a smaller barrel plug, again it wouldn't fit right so you would know right off. But sometimes people think you can just use a NES power supply, and end up frying your Genesis, or Jaguar, it's also a DC system.

I find it hard to believe you have two bad Genesis systems, or that they are both PAL, Actually is this even possible? I thought all foreign versions were Mega Drives? Wouldn't they be labeled as such?

Almost as unbelievable is that your TV is incompatible with the system, I've had close to 20 Sega Genesis systems, and have never found one to not like a tv of mine, sounds more like a coverup by Sega.. :hmm: Although there are people here claiming that to be the truth..

I think it's something simpler than that. It's Got to be...

chadtower
07-17-2003, 02:36 PM
Yeah... though every piece of evidence points to the Zenith incompatibility. I guess we'll find out tonight when I bust out my trusty (had it since 1985) 13" Hitachi and see if they work on that one.

What intrigues me now is whether or not the Laseractive is also incompatible with certain Zenith TVs... I'll have to test that out. In any case I now know that the old Zenith I'm using for my setup isn't the one I'm going to be able to stay with since I do intend to have a Genesis in that setup. It's going to be a true room of doom.

FABombjoy
07-17-2003, 03:00 PM
Console outputs picture & sound = Not power supply
Console has color image = Not PAL
Console has clear screen but rolls = Not RF switch

All signs point to the TV. There must be some peculiarity in the Genesis video signal that doesn't bother most TVs, but bothers Zenith TVs.

bargora
07-17-2003, 03:07 PM
I've got an old Zenith (I think it's a Zenith) that works just fine with my Dreamcast, but when I plug in the Playstation, either via RF or composite, I get bouncy bouncy bouncy picture for most games. It's not a constant rolling, but rather a jerky up-down. Playable, barely--headache-inducing, definitely. The TV has got to be at least 20 years old, probably more. So the Playstation incompatibility is for real, I've found. I wouldn't be surprised if your Gennies are suffereing the same incompatibility.

The funny thing is that for the PS and PS2, it's all in the game code. Not all of my PS games bounce. If a PS game bounces, though, it's going to bounce whether I play it through a PS, a PS1, or a PS2. Some PS2 games bounce, as well (e.g., Ico). Some games bounce during the intro, but not during gameplay (Jeopardy, PS). In Gradius III & IV (PS2), one of the two games (III, I think) bounces, while the other doesn't.

This is the reason that the best TV in the house is in my game cave, while the Zenith POS lives in the bedroom. Priorities, man. :-D

chadtower
07-17-2003, 03:08 PM
I've seen instances where a console gets just enough juice from the wrong ps to work but not work properly... or work properly and get fried over time. It is possible, but here all evidence does point to the TV being incompatible.

Anonymous
07-17-2003, 03:12 PM
I noticed in the original post that you're connecting it through a vcr. Have you tried plugging it directly into the tv? VCRs can interfere with picture from games, although admittedly it's usually the macrovision interfering with composite signals. Also, I don't think it's the RF. With an RF, if it doesn't just stop working completely, you will usually lose sound but not pic or pic but not sound.

chadtower
07-17-2003, 09:47 PM
Okay, after taking another tv and connecting both units directly to it (one at a time), both work just fine. It must be the tv... that stupid Zenith incompatibility.

One more question: One Gen1 says HIGH DEFINITION GRAPHICS along the top and the other does not. I assume that basically means one is first run and one is a later run... is there a real difference? Is one better to have than the other?

omnedon
07-18-2003, 09:02 AM
As long as one doesn't say Mega Drive on it, they are the same. I found a Mega drive here in a pawn in Edmonton once. It was a Japanese one.

Bratwurst
07-18-2003, 09:26 AM
The unit with 'High Definition Graphics' on it would be the earliest version, and it has no form of lockout/territory chip inside. Models after that one do, and they'll show a black screen with white lettering that reads 'Licensed by Sega Interprises' etc before actually moving onto the game. It's a slight pause, and you could consider the earliest version to be the best, but I've run across a few games I could not get to work on it, so it's probably best to keep both.

chadtower
07-18-2003, 10:19 AM
Oooh... no lockout! Am I correct in assuming that means you can play Japanese games? Euro games would be out, I suspect, since they're PAL, but Japan uses NTSC...

Bratwurst
07-18-2003, 11:08 AM
Oooh... no lockout! Am I correct in assuming that means you can play Japanese games? Euro games would be out, I suspect, since they're PAL, but Japan uses NTSC...

Ironically it's the other way around. Japanese megadrive games are shaped differently and will not fit in the slot of American and European systems. However, most early PAL games (that I've managed to try) will work on that early American system, something about the way they're coded that allows them to display NTSC.

The thing about the lockout on later models is that they actually prevent certain old American carts from playing, like some early EA games.

chadtower
07-18-2003, 11:50 AM
Right... so, basically, I'm going to keep the earlier one and trade away the newer one. I figure I'll find a newer one again easier than the earlier one. Cool.

The Manimal
07-18-2003, 04:13 PM
Wily Wars was only available in Europe, I think (?).


Any way of playing these on Genesis 2 with an adaptor?

omnedon
07-18-2003, 06:34 PM
You can get a "HoneyBee" connector that allows japanese MD games to play on any Genny. I have no PAL games to test.

I traded my Japanese MD away when I got the Honeybee. That said, It's quite the sight, my honeybee connected to my 32X which is connected to my Genny, which is connected to my SEGACD. :-D

FABombjoy
07-23-2003, 10:30 AM
The unit with 'High Definition Graphics' on it would be the earliest version, and it has no form of lockout/territory chip inside.

Actually, there are 2 versions of the "High Definition Graphics" Genesis, a lockout and a non-lockout. I have about 8 Genesis right now with the "HD-G" at the top, and only 1 is truly non-lockout. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell unless you plug them in, or open them up (unless somebody has deciphered the serial number progression).

Bratwurst
07-23-2003, 10:49 AM
Then I stand corrected! Could the difference in the 'Hi-D' Genny and the ones without be the lack of that serial port in the back?

The Manimal
07-23-2003, 03:54 PM
Using the Power Base on either Gen 1 or Gen 2....


Are you able to play Gun games for SMS? With the Genesis gun or do the inputs of the SMS allow to use the SMS gun on the Genesis?

What's the button layout for the Genesis using the SMS games... A & B or B & C ?

FABombjoy
07-23-2003, 10:23 PM
Then I stand corrected! Could the difference in the 'Hi-D' Genny and the ones without be the lack of that serial port in the back?

Yep. That, and some changes to the board design (mostly the shift from discreet components to ASICs).

FABombjoy
07-23-2003, 10:26 PM
Using the Power Base on either Gen 1 or Gen 2....


Are you able to play Gun games for SMS? With the Genesis gun or do the inputs of the SMS allow to use the SMS gun on the Genesis?

What's the button layout for the Genesis using the SMS games... A & B or B & C ?

You can use the gun with the power base converter no problem. The buttons map to B & C (I think). The PBC works only with the style 1 Genesis. It probably would work with the Genesis 2, but it won't fit. It also works with the CDX.

dreamcaster
07-27-2003, 10:46 PM
Oooh... no lockout! Am I correct in assuming that means you can play Japanese games? Euro games would be out, I suspect, since they're PAL, but Japan uses NTSC...

Ironically it's the other way around. Japanese megadrive games are shaped differently and will not fit in the slot of American and European systems. However, most early PAL games (that I've managed to try) will work on that early American system, something about the way they're coded that allows them to display NTSC.

The thing about the lockout on later models is that they actually prevent certain old American carts from playing, like some early EA games.

This is also true for some early PAL Mega Drives. US Genesis games have often been compatible with many Mega Drive model 1's and some Model 2's

[/random info]

Duncan
08-19-2003, 01:40 AM
You can get a "HoneyBee" connector that allows japanese MD games to play on any Genny. I have no PAL games to test.

I traded my Japanese MD away when I got the Honeybee. That said, It's quite the sight, my honeybee connected to my 32X which is connected to my Genny, which is connected to my SEGACD. :-D

I have no Japanese or Euro games, but I'm curious. I've heard you can also get around the lockouts with a Game Genie and the proper code -- this assumes, of course, that all Mega Drive games will fit on the Genie. Are both of my assumptions true?

Duncan :D

omnedon
08-19-2003, 09:21 AM
I believe so. The only thing keeping a japanese MD game from playing on any genny seems to be cartridge shape. that's it. The NA Genny has a slot with notches, while the japaneses MD has a rectangle. I'm pretty sure my HoneyBee is a straight up pass thru- no real electronics. Therefore, if you pulled the cover off your genny, you could play japanese games. I don't see why a Genie wouldn't work, because it gets you past the notches in the slot.
:-D

Duncan
08-19-2003, 03:44 PM
You can use the gun with the power base converter no problem. The buttons map to B & C (I think). The PBC works only with the style 1 Genesis. It probably would work with the Genesis 2, but it won't fit. It also works with the CDX.

If you don't mind cutting off part of the PBC's rear section, it'll fit on the later Genesis consoles.

Luckily, I have the original style -- but now I can't find a front-loader Sega CD to match it...

Duncan :D

kingfender
11-01-2005, 12:48 PM
I think have been getting the same problem that Zenith TVís get on my Toshiba 65NH84 that I just purchased. I have tried a Genesis 1, Genesis 2 using RF switch, and JVC X-Eye using composite video. They all do the same thing except when I hook up a Genesis to my VCR on channel 4 and then set my TV to channel 3, but the picture quality is crap.
I was wondering if anyone attempted modifying JVC X-Eye, tried using some type of video converter, or a S-VHS VCR with S-Video outputs. I would be grateful for any help.