View Full Version : Stunt Race FX Fans (SNES): Overclocked SuperFX chip **Now with Starfox!!**
STARFOX VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYnR19wKQ4M)
STUNT RACE FX VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB7180J4ocY)
Hey folks,
About a year ago, I sold a copy of Stunt Race FX with an overclocked SuperFX chip. The purchaser promised to upload video of the improved gameplay, but never did.
I have modified another copy and I have uploaded a video of the improved frame rate. It's still laggy, but better.
The modification is quite simple to perform if you are comfortable with soldering on any level.
You need to replace the 21.477 MHz crystal oscillator with one of a higher value. 24-27 MHz 2-pin oscillators are recommended. It looks like a small metal can (see below)
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d40/robivy64/DSCN0796.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d40/robivy64/DSCN0797.jpg
The SuperFX will internally divide by 2 to produce a 13.5MHz clock speed when fed 27MHz.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d40/robivy64/DSCN0798.jpg
ubersaurus
08-03-2011, 10:17 PM
Wow, that looks really nice. I always wanted to like the game but the framerate killed it for me.
Thanks. Next up, Starfox, although it won't be quite as easy.
SpaceHarrier
08-03-2011, 10:45 PM
That's great! You picked my favorite track as well.
I loved this game as a kid, but didn't get it till a few years ago. That's when I noticed that upon extended play, I started to get symptoms of motion sickness, presumably from the frame-rate.
I play all sorts of roller-coasterish racing games and never feel any negative results, but I find Stunt Race FX to be the exception, so sadly I can't play more than a couple races during any one sitting.
retroman
08-03-2011, 11:44 PM
i loved that game in high school...Now i want to go get it again
boatofcar
08-04-2011, 12:05 AM
Cool. I'd forgotten about Stunt Race FX...it says something about the FX chip that even modern budget computers can't emulate those games at full speed (at least mine can't!)
allyourblood
08-04-2011, 12:08 AM
Cool. I'd forgotten about Stunt Race FX...it says something about the FX chip that even modern budget computers can't emulate those games at full speed (at least mine can't!)
It's not the one in your avatar, is it?
...Thanks folks! I'll be here all week!
BetaWolf47
08-04-2011, 08:33 AM
I'm not sure whether emulators run Super-FX games at the same speed SNESes do, or whether they can make a slow Super-FX game run smooth. Star Fox seems jittery on Snes9x for me, while it seems smoother on bsnes.
fahlim003
08-04-2011, 12:32 PM
I have modified another copy and I have uploaded a video of the improved frame rate. It's still laggy, but better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB7180J4ocY
Thanks for getting this footage. I have now have something to compare it to.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151390
I performed the upgrade now 6 months ago with a 25mhz crystal and as mentioned I didn't notice much improvement in frame-rate simply overall it was less choppy.
I'll need to compare your video to my cartridge when I get home, despite the 8% difference in clock boost (12.5 vs. 13.5) I'm feeling at this point they'll look similar.
Good luck on the Star Fox project, that too should have interesting results.
Ironically, I just found a copy of Starfox in the closet.
Time to break out the frequency counter, multi-meter, and soldering iron...
boatofcar
08-04-2011, 07:29 PM
It's not the one in your avatar, is it?
LOL
SNES9x for Atari 800 is awesome!
Leo_A
08-04-2011, 07:33 PM
I'm not sure whether emulators run Super-FX games at the same speed SNESes do, or whether they can make a slow Super-FX game run smooth. Star Fox seems jittery on Snes9x for me, while it seems smoother on bsnes.
They typically run them too quick. Compare the audio in the launch sequence of Star Fox on real hardware to most any video on YouTube that was taken from an emulator, and you'll see that the game has been significantly speeded up compared to the audio that still runs at correct speed.
Not sure I understand why emulator programmers (Or apparantly homebrew cart manufacturers) feel the need to do so with Star Fox. Always seemed to run smoothly and consistently enough to me.
OK, Starfox has been overclocked. I'm going to give it a good test before I upload a video, but so far the "Mario Chip" has been stable at 25 MHz (12.5 MHz).
It runs a little more smoothly!
Rickstilwell1
08-04-2011, 11:21 PM
Personally I find Zsnes to be the superior SNES emulator out there. It runs all games I have ever tried, including Star Fox at full speed.
Leo_A
08-04-2011, 11:46 PM
Personally I find Zsnes to be the superior SNES emulator out there. It runs all games I have ever tried, including Star Fox at full speed.
I don't know about earlier builds of it, but the most recent built of it as of a few years ago (I don't believe it's been worked on in years) was running Super FX games faster than real hardware.
Only the audio was at 100% speed. Gameplay was running at least at 110% speed. I assume the emulation programmers thought it was a good idea to deviate from accuracy for the same reason this homebrew cartridge manufacturer is doing this.
Koa Zo
08-05-2011, 12:52 AM
I've got an overclocked Stunt Race FX cart I purchased from a member here, but I certainly never made any claim about posting a video.
And the overclocked Star Fox I have I purchased from a guy in Hong Kong maybe 3 years ago.
...haven't had a SFC hooked up in about that long too.
A Black Falcon
08-05-2011, 01:02 AM
They typically run them too quick. Compare the audio in the launch sequence of Star Fox on real hardware to most any video on YouTube that was taken from an emulator, and you'll see that the game has been significantly speeded up compared to the audio that still runs at correct speed.
Not sure I understand why emulator programmers (Or apparantly homebrew cart manufacturers) feel the need to do so with Star Fox. Always seemed to run smoothly and consistently enough to me.
Emulator programmers speed up Super FX games because the framerates in those games (Yoshi's Island aside) are just ATROCIOUS, and make the games no fun at all to play at their default speeds pretty much... I have Stunt Race FX, Star Fox, and Vortex. All three have ridiculously low framerates that make the games almost impossible to enjoy. A better framerate, as with emulation or, even better, this mod, would make such a huge difference...
On that note, yeah, that's an awesome mod. Wish my copy was like that. :)
Icarus Moonsight
08-05-2011, 02:26 AM
What happens with a clock input over 27MHz? Fried S-FX?
Peonpiate
08-05-2011, 01:41 PM
What happens with a clock input over 27MHz? Fried S-FX?
The OP mentions why in his linked youtube video -
"The SuperFX chip has been overclocked from 10.7MHz to 13.5MHz. There is a noticeable increase in the framerate, however, it is still quite laggy. When overclocked faster than this, the SuperFX begins to exhibit graphical errors"
I believe it depends on the game though, some folks have ran Starfox 2 @15mhz without issues. Stuntrace seems to be much pickier..
Icarus Moonsight
08-05-2011, 03:04 PM
Thanks for pointing that out. Missed it completely. LOL
Leo_A
08-05-2011, 03:11 PM
Odd, I never thought the frame rate in Star Fox was lacking.
I can see some criticism of the game in various areas (Although I can't see anyone not loving the soundtrack), but I never thought of it as having a low or inconsistent frame rate.
kedawa
08-05-2011, 04:30 PM
The same doesn't necessarily hold true for Starfox 2.
badinsults
08-05-2011, 07:56 PM
Emulator programmers speed up Super FX games because the framerates in those games (Yoshi's Island aside) are just ATROCIOUS, and make the games no fun at all to play at their default speeds pretty much... I have Stunt Race FX, Star Fox, and Vortex. All three have ridiculously low framerates that make the games almost impossible to enjoy. A better framerate, as with emulation or, even better, this mod, would make such a huge difference...
On that note, yeah, that's an awesome mod. Wish my copy was like that. :)
Actually, that is completely untrue. Emulators like Zsnes do not properly emulate the timing of the Super FX chip, which is a known bug, and will be fixed in future releases. BSNES provides proper Super FX emulation at the moment.
hbkprm
08-05-2011, 10:15 PM
it was a solid mod hoping to see more vids in the future
A Black Falcon
08-06-2011, 01:38 AM
Actually, that is completely untrue. Emulators like Zsnes do not properly emulate the timing of the Super FX chip, which is a known bug, and will be fixed in future releases. BSNES provides proper Super FX emulation at the moment.
Bug or not, I wouldn't want accurate speed emulation, because those horriffic framerates make the games borderline unplayable, they're so much more fun running faster...
LeonHikari
08-06-2011, 02:46 AM
Are the FX and FX2 chips pin compatible? Why hasn't anyone tried swapping a GSU-1 out for a GSU-2?
fahlim003
08-06-2011, 12:52 PM
OK, Starfox has been overclocked. I'm going to give it a good test before I upload a video, but so far the "Mario Chip" has been stable at 25 MHz (12.5 MHz).
It runs a little more smoothly!
Nice, planning on doing some write-up to this? There's little information I've uncovered on this pardon the following:
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12050
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131103
As I have understood there may be 3 revisions of the Star Fox pcb, where one may even be regulated by an on board crystal oscillator instead of taking the clock speed from the system itself via pin 1 off of the Mario Chip. I haven't seen this board myself but I've read it does exist.
If and when you do take a video of Star Fox OC, try it on a busy stage and perhaps let off a nova bomb too.
Leo_A
08-06-2011, 04:01 PM
Bug or not, I wouldn't want accurate speed emulation, because those horriffic framerates make the games borderline unplayable, they're so much more fun running faster...
Have you actually played Star Fox in recent memory? It hardly has such a horrible frame rate and whatever it's maintaining during gameplay (25 fps or so, I'd guess) is very consistent. Far from "horrific" (Check out NASCAR Racing for the PSOne with AI cars turned on for a horrific frame rate, makes Stunt Race FX and Star Fox feel as smooth as can be).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCfM_uLyXoQ
Have you actually played Star Fox in recent memory? It hardly has such a horrible frame rate and whatever it's maintaining during gameplay (25 fps or so, I'd guess) is very consistent. Far from "horrific" (Check out NASCAR Racing for the PSOne with AI cars turned on for a horrific frame rate, makes Stunt Race FX and Star Fox feel as smooth as can be).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCfM_uLyXoQ
Play level 3 (space armada)
You are closing in on 2-3fps in some instances.
STARFOX VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYnR19wKQ4M
Not quite as impressive, but still a small performance increase. I had to cool the Mario Chip to keep it from crashing after about 30 minutes.
badinsults
08-07-2011, 07:50 AM
Are the FX and FX2 chips pin compatible? Why hasn't anyone tried swapping a GSU-1 out for a GSU-2?
The chips are identical, except the GSU-2 allows ROM sizes of 16 Mb. Also, there technically isn't any difference between the FX1 (ie the chip in Star Fox) and FX2 (the chip used in every other Super FX game). For whatever reason, they decided to cut down the clock speed of the Super FX in Star Fox.
Leo_A
08-07-2011, 06:12 PM
Play level 3 (space armada)
You are closing in on 2-3fps in some instances.
It never comes anywhere close to approaching 2-3fps.
And the only slowdown anywhere in that level is when you destroy the core and the explosions start happening for a second. Even then it stays pretty smooth.
SpaceHarrier
08-07-2011, 07:51 PM
I seem to remember Fortuna having some frame-rate issues, but it's been awhile since I played..
It never comes anywhere close to approaching 2-3fps.
And the only slowdown anywhere in that level is when you destroy the core and the explosions start happening for a second. Even then it stays pretty smooth.
I too love the original Starfox.
But let's face it, even with rose-tinted glasses, it doesn't take long to run into some serious framerate issues. And saying that the game runs at a consistent 25 fps is a very generous exaggeration.
Leo_A
08-07-2011, 08:06 PM
If you say so.
It's always seemed pretty smooth to me overall.
A Black Falcon
08-07-2011, 08:34 PM
I too love the original Starfox.
But let's face it, even with rose-tinted glasses, it doesn't take long to run into some serious framerate issues. And saying that the game runs at a consistent 25 fps is a very generous exaggeration.
Yeah, the four Super FX 1 games are more often in single digits framerate-wise than double digits, probably, I would say...
Drakon
09-05-2011, 10:12 PM
Are the FX and FX2 chips pin compatible? Why hasn't anyone tried swapping a GSU-1 out for a GSU-2?
Yes they are. All three chips (mario, gsu 1, gsu 2) are pin compatible. Want proof? Here's starfox running on a gsu 2 at 27 mhz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOU2GikRRY8&feature=channel_video_title
Again a HUGE thanks to Rob for giving me the idea of using a 4 pin crystal oscillator instead of the stunt race fx technique.
WesternNYCollector
09-05-2011, 11:10 PM
I replayed all three difficulties of Star Fox on original hardware a few weeks ago after I recently repurchased it. The frame rates were actually better than I remembered / was expecting considering all the grief I hear about it. :| Sure, I noticed some slowdown but never did I say to myself, "Wow, this is unbearable.".
Meanwhile if a game on the PC has anything except a completely smooth framerate I can't stand to play it.
Drakon
09-06-2011, 07:51 PM
I replayed all three difficulties of Star Fox on original hardware a few weeks ago after I recently repurchased it. The frame rates were actually better than I remembered / was expecting considering all the grief I hear about it. :| Sure, I noticed some slowdown but never did I say to myself, "Wow, this is unbearable.".
Meanwhile if a game on the PC has anything except a completely smooth framerate I can't stand to play it.
I always couldn't stand the default starfox framerate ever since it was released
Leo_A
09-06-2011, 09:34 PM
I replayed all three difficulties of Star Fox on original hardware a few weeks ago after I recently repurchased it. The frame rates were actually better than I remembered / was expecting considering all the grief I hear about it. :| Sure, I noticed some slowdown but never did I say to myself, "Wow, this is unbearable.".
Glad to see someone else didn't think it was atrocious. I was starting to question myself since it's never bothered me.
It seems to be a pretty smooth 25fps or so (Or in the neighborhood, at least, it's certainly far past the single digits 99.9% of the time and far closer to 25fps than some of the exagerrations I've seen in this thread). Never gets slow unless there are significant explosions, and those usually happen when you're not in control anyways at the end of a level after killing a boss (Or flying straight and level inside of a a spaceship on the Space Armada level as it's blowing up when you destroy the core to take down the ship).
There's certainly nostalgia associated with this game for me. But I come back to it so regularly that I'm convinced there is a solid game here that is still fun to play. If my enjoyment was just from the nostalgia, I think 5 minutes with it every few years would be plenty. Yet I go through all three routes several times a year and have been since the mid 1990's.